Mo Gilligan: Why success can lead to ego and how to laugh through misery

0:00Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that questions what success really means. Today, I'm chatting to Mo Gilligan. There's a part of me that always wants to yearn and strive for more. Like when I wake up in the morning, I'm like, this is what I want to do. I can see how to get there. But in order to get there, I need to also be extremely present more than ever. I think now I try my best of feeling vulnerable again. That feels very nice. It's a really nice feeling to go into situations where, you know, you're doing something. You're like, oh, this is different. I'm being judged.

0:34So yeah, going back to the vulnerability and being in the present makes me yearn for more, but also stay more grounded. I'm sat here with a painful ankle today. You might have seen me already wobbling on about this on Instagram, but I had a fall. I fell over when I was out running the other day. I don't even know how it happened. I was running. I was listening to a podcast, actually, and my foot went over. and the next thing I did a sort of cartoon fall onto the floor, landed on my shoulder, cut my knee open, ruined my brand new leopard print leggings, which I'm still livid about. Although someone has said on Instagram, make them into cycling shorts, which I'm definitely doing.

1:16But this lovely lady, I fell into a lady and this lovely lady said, right, sit on the wall, take some breaths, you're in shock. Now, what I want you to do is go home and have a cup of tea. and that is what I talked about on Instagram because that line has stuck with me. We're all rushing around too much, way too much and also I'm really bored of being served things by my algorithm about being more motivated and doing more and achieving more etc. I think actually most of us need to do the opposite and just have a cup of tea at home and deep breathe. So I did. So I've got a little bit of a painful ankle.

1:55I'm hobbling around, limping about. But luckily for this job, I just get to sit in a chair so I can be comfortably interviewing today's guest, who is someone that I am a huge fan of, someone that has brought me so much laughter, so much joy. I think this person might be the funniest person ever. I've never watched one of their videos on Instagram or seen them on TV and not been howling with laughter. It is, of course, the brilliant Mo Gilligan. Mo, the triple BAFTA winning comedian, actor, presenter, content creator and now fellow podcaster. Mo's new show is called Mo Gilligan, Beginning, Middle and End.

2:37And I bloody love a new podcast recommendation. So I am very much looking forward to getting stuck into this one. Mo's asking some of the UK's biggest stars about the moments that made them and the legacy they want to leave behind. And he's performing at the O2 in a couple of weeks, which is absolutely huge. We talk about all sorts here, like wanting to be likeable, being relatable. Two things that Mo is excellent at. Feeling OK with celebrating ourselves, which, let's be honest, we're all absolutely terrible at. also making an active decision to laugh in miserable situations. It's such a good coping mechanism.

3:16When I remember to do it, I'm like, oh, this is such a good way of seeing the world rather than just feeling bleak about everything. And again, Mo is the expert at that one.

3:39Proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction.

4:18And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

4:35Okay, on with the show in a moment, but a quick reminder. that I would love to see you at the Happy Place festivals this summer. We're at Gunnersbury Park on July the 12th and 13th and Tatton Park on August the 30th and 31st. We've got a new area this year, which I am so excited about. We have a hormone teepee. There's going to be much going on in there. Menstrual health, menopause, hormonal balance, and you can learn about all of it from expert speakers and specialists. and while we're on speakers, oh my goodness, there are going to be so many brilliant people on the talk stage across the weekends.

5:12Come and see Jordan Stevens. He was so great when we had him on the podcast. Vogue Williams, who I'm a massive fan of and Millie McIntosh, who again did a brilliant episode of Happy Place all about drinking. So I'm sure she's going to talk about that at the festival. And if you want to get into some arts and crafts or some meditation, some movement classes, keep an eye on our social media because we're going to be announcing all the workshops you can sign up for very, very soon. If you haven't already, get your tickets now at happyplacefestival.com and I'll see you there. Right, here we go. This is the show.

6:08hello mo big up man hey we've just had a chat we've never really met properly have we not i don't know do you know i i conflate seeing people on the telly and have i met them in real life yeah and i'm like hardcore mass singer fan hardcore we're both on gogglebox so occasionally watch that back yeah have we not met i don't know i feel like i feel like i know you because i've seen you on my television screens for so long so i guess you must have this a lot when you're in the street and someone's like oh i know you what's your name again you're like uh you're in britain uh you're like yeah my name's mo oh i knew it was you um but yeah i feel like that's the connection i have with you yeah i feel like i know you yeah yeah yeah but then i feel like we might have met like a you know like on a red carpet somewhere where i normally meet a lot of people but i don't know that i've met them because they're so quick yeah and it feels like you're on tv a lot of times on the red carpet because you're on you know everyone's there um i used to really like it and it's not that I don't like it so much now but it's that thing where you're like I just need the picture innit I do not like doing that it's so awkward and everyone's shouting and you don't know how long you're meant to stand there for it's really awkward and you move along a bit and then if a more famous person comes along you're dead oh it's done it's finished wrap it up man I think that's what I realised about the red carpet because for me it was always like I really just want to get on the thing and show off how you know the suit I've got on or the blazer or whatever and then you get there and sometimes if you've got something to promote you're like ah this is a perfect opportunity but also you're like you know if I do one I'm always if I do one I want to do everyone do you know what I mean I want to say you're chatting to Lorraine's people you're chatting oh yeah yes yes yeah yeah and it is great but then there is a part where you're like you know someone's saying okay you need to get inside and do the thing or you know you're you're on or whatever and you're like okay cool but I've realised I've got a job to do.

7:56As much as it's fun, but I still like going. I think there's something about getting dressed up that I just still enjoy. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, yeah. There's something about getting dressed up, but there's something also nice about going home and just getting some food on the way home. That bit. Which is like - You never get fed at those things. No one realises this. Oh, the food is not food. You didn't get any. I think the first thing I went to was the Q Awards, I think. We had like Guinea fowl and I'd never had it before. I've never eaten that. A part of me was trying to convince myself, like, this is nice because it's upper, you know, it's upper class.

8:27And you eat it. You're like, nah. No, no. I'm going to go home for some toast, thanks. I wouldn't buy it. Do you know what I mean? It's nice, but I wouldn't buy it. No one's bought guinea fowl before. Yeah, I think that's why I'm out of a lot of those events. It's good to go, but it's also great to go home. It's overstimulating. I'm exhausted after those things. Like completely dread. I mean, I say this, I go to them all the time. I haven't been on a red carpet in, I couldn't even tell you the last time I went on one. I'm just sort of I avoid that stuff I just want to do like I don't know just be at home being at home is the best being at home is the best people forget how good it is until you've been away from home for a bit but you know that's the one thing I think I enjoy the most about being on tour and you're on the road and like being home like I have my sofa you know everything's just in place where it's the smell and it's just small things as soon as I get home I just like to do the housework I like to put my recycling away and do you know what I mean sometimes I'll be honest when it comes to the suitcases I'm guilty of leaving a suitcase for like four months what?

9:26do you want to hear what I do? when I get in from holiday I open the door I say to the kids right go and watch TV and I've unpacked every suitcase and done the first load of washing within an hour yeah I'm 50-50 sometimes I do that if it's a small case and I'm like okay cool I know I've got some gym stuff in there but I think the last time I went well I said last time I went away I went away last year and there was a case there that was there for at least six months i just forgot about it because i've got different wash bags as well so i've got my touring wash bag and then i've got my holiday wash bag and then i've got like a i'm just gonna go somewhere so it's got all my essentials in so i didn't need anything in the case and it's until i'm like it's just that it's there yeah i know but i just forgot so i i was like where's where's those trainers and i generally thought i was like i think someone stole them someone's someone stole them i don't know where they are then i'm like oh right in that case yeah it wasn't just left them rotting in a case yeah yeah just rotting in a case man it's not good i mean you're sort of on a never-ending world tour you're constantly doing these gigs and you've got two big gigs coming up towards the end of this month you're playing the o2 yes yes do you shit yourself before a gig like that that is an enormous audience um it's weird because i'll be lying if i said i wasn't nervous i'm definitely nervous when i go play out what's going to happen bigger in my head than what it is on stage because essentially I'm like well I'm going to go on stage I've done this before I'm going to tell material that I've done before and these are audience members that are coming and you know the majority have seen me before and if they haven't they have an idea of who I am I think when I when I go into a place where I'm like oh nobody knows me here at all now I've got to prove something to them am I funny am my likable so I think um if I play out the scenario bigger in my head I can get really nervous but I have a lot of my family and my friends around just like in the dressing room I try to keep the same aura and nice people around me we joke around before the show we we sometimes have food we have drink we play cards and that just brings me at ease yeah there's only a couple times where I just like to be left by myself but the majority of time I'm like what what could go wrong do you You know what I mean?

11:40Like loads of things? Like everything, but then you're like, well, that's kind of like the gamble of when you do those shows, you know. Do you know what's so interesting? So just there you said, am I going to do well? Am I likeable? And that is such a strange term that I totally understand because certainly for the stuff you're doing, not only stand up, you know, not all comedians are likeable. Sometimes comedians really riff off the fact that they say things that are outrageous and you don't have to like them. But, you know, you've also made that move to mainstream TV and presenting, you do have to be likeable.

12:13Oh yeah, most definitely. It's such a huge part of it. And, you know, as a presenter, not as a comedian, it's probably 80 % of the job is being likeable. How do you find that? Because I think for me, it definitely started to spill into other bits of my life. And without me knowing, you know, it's all completely subconscious that I would put so much weight on being liked by anyone that I encountered. Strangers or people in the school run or even my friends, I would be so concerned by if I was liked or not, because it felt, I guess it was like a currency in terms of if I'm not likable, I haven't got a job and I'm screwed.

12:51It felt heavier than it should have. How do you, how does it sit with you? Yeah, I think for me, especially as a comic, my stuff is very, I see the world in my vision in some ways. So I see things that I'm like, oh, that's kind of funny. we can turn that into a thing or I have this story that someone might connect to but you also might not connect with this story so but it's like there's a part of it where I'm like I need to become likable I don't like try to envision that oh people like me but there is a part where I'm like I'm going to tell you this and I want you to see my pain in it my misery but also how silly and funny it is so that's what I want you to like about me and what I'm about to tell you or what I'm about to present but then I think like you're saying 80 % of it is likability and then the 20 % is being relatable yeah you know and the more you get to do this job I feel like your audience can then start to disconnect even more because they're like oh well we've seen you do that thing and that thing now and or sometimes just the television I feel like it's just a inherent thing with with like culture at the moment where you're like you're on tv and it's interesting when I meet a lot of young people I don't want to do tv I want to do social media and I'm like, yeah, but there's still that connection of you're on the television, you know, and there is that relatability where you're like, oh, I can relate to this person, you know, and I feel like that's, for myself anyway, when it's coming to create content or when it's, you know, writing a show or being on television, I always want to feel like the person you're going to see on television is the person you're going to see down the road.

14:27Yeah, it's always the case though, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure you've met people and gone, oh my God, they're a right arsehole. You know, sometimes you meet people and you're like, oh, oh, right. Okay, cool. I thought it was really nice, man. That's a shame. Anyway. It's the pits. Yeah, I think that's part. I only really learned that probably because I've not been doing this that long. So I've only learned that in the short space of time that I've done it. But then sometimes I also kind of understand that everyone has their off day sometimes. Yeah. So it's not even like, I can't even judge someone based upon that.

14:57it's just like it's just not their day today it's easy to because you go oh my god you know I met Brad Pitt and he was a dick because he was having a bad hour do you know what I mean but it's funny with comedians because so often you know I've interviewed comedians over the years or encountered them or worked with them on Celebrity Juice and some are pretty consistent like I'm sort of getting the vibe from you and I've seen you in all different iterations of work that you are a chirpy sort of fun person most of the time I'd say with television is what you see but there's a lot that are like a lot of comedians are shy, awkward, a bit sad.

15:30Yeah, yeah. It's funny. I think that is though the, because comics always have to see the funny and stuff. And there's a way that when you're on stage, you kind of switch onto sometimes the caricature of who you are. And this is just my perception of comedy. And that's where sometimes, you know, even I meet some comics and I'm like, oh, hey, what's up? And you're like, hey, what's up, man? And I'm like, oh, bro, why are you off with me? What have I done? But then just realizing you're like, oh like that's who you really are yeah you know off stage as opposed to on stage and some people are almost heightened versions you know of of themselves and i think i think comedy does that to a lot of comedians where you have to be the version of yourself you're always looking for the funny and i think it's especially with comedians you can't really have an off day because it's like hey what's up man what's good like there's times i've been in the airport and I've missed a flight and I'm like, okay, how am I going to get to there, to there?

16:26So stressful. And things like that really stress me out. I hate that stuff. It's the one thing that stresses me out because I never, I never miss flights. Like, it's the one thing I'm like, I never, I don't like being stranded in a place. No, I also want to get to the airport super early and like go to Boots and go to WH Smith and like get my bits. That's like a big part of it. Yeah, same. I love that bit. I think even for myself, there's times where I'm stressing and I'm like, and someone's like, hey, what's happening, mate? What's going on? You look a bit sad today. And I'm like, I have to switch on.

16:53I can't say, well, I've just missed my flight and I can't get home and I've got a job to do the next day. I'm like, yeah, man, you know, I've just got to be the person that they only know that they've ever seen on a special or on television. So I do think a lot of comics definitely battle depression. I think that happens a lot with a lot of comics. I think it's a lot of people in the arts in general, but definitely for comedians, just from comics that I know where, you know, someone's going through something. You're like, you're right. And you're like, yeah, man, yeah. And then they've got to switch it on until you might speak to them properly.

17:24And they're like, yeah, I was going through something. You know, that time I seen you, I was like, oh, okay. I mean, can you always, obviously it's part of your job to find funny in everyday relatable situations. But outside of looking for that for work and for new writing material, can you see humour in most situations? Because I think that is a gift because often it's not what's happening to you. It's obviously the reaction you're having to it. And if you can find a tinge of humour in it, it can, you know, turn being mortified into mildly embarrassed or it can turn something really stressful into something that you're coping with a little bit better.

18:02I think it's a good coping mechanism. No, it is. It definitely covers up what might be bubbling on the surface sometimes because you're able to just laugh it off but also share the laughter in the thing that might be misery for you as well. And I think that's the thing with Stan. Hence why I think there's a lot of comics that might battle with depression because you're not really addressing how bad the situation was. You're talking about, oh, yeah, you know, you could be on stage talking about something absolutely horrific, but you've seen the funny side and everyone else does. So you never addressed that.

18:33It was like you were allowed to cry during that moment or be angry. but I think always looking for the funny can sometimes make you realise within your reality is that, okay, cool, maybe I need to take a step back a little bit and just realise that that was a bit of a dark turn sometimes as well. But it is a quite cool skill. You can diffuse a lot of situations with humour, which I've found sometimes I get into a bit of road rage. And I had this moment, I had this good month where I was getting into so many little parts of road rage. now I'm like take a step back and then I had a few times where I stopped the car and be like look we can't do this it's too expensive to get into this road rage and they look at me and they go yeah man yeah you got a point man yeah hang on don't I know you the window goes up yeah there's a lot of times with comedy how you can use it to defuse situations which is always quite nice I think that's the kind of skill or you know superpower you have sometimes to defuse the most, you know, hectic of situations, which is like really cool.

19:40And also just, I mean, you're making people laugh, but obviously you, I'm sure your own jokes make you laugh too, but just laughing is therapy in itself, I think. If I've been feeling really shit, I will always reach for something that's going to make me laugh, whether it's a podcast or a TV show or something that reminds me to just see the funny side of things, but also to get all those oxytocin going and just feeling more relaxed. It's so good for the soul. Yeah, I spend a lot of time on tour just watching memes. I can watch them for a good hour. And the guy's always in the car and they're always like, oh, why are you spending so much time?

20:15And I was like, this is my disconnect. I just want to laugh at something so silly that I'm not looking for it. I'm just finding it. And sometimes there is a bit where I'm just scrolling for hours. But at the same time, it's my disconnect. It's my little... Generally, I have a little cup of tea. I have some biscuits. I have some crisp and put my headphones in I just want to watch just my little reels and my little memes that I find really funny I want to watch people falling over like really specifically that is for me my favourite people falling over but there's like but not hurting themselves badly but just like falling in mud do you ever watch the people that like voice over of people like pretending to be animals and stuff they're the ones that are like so funny there's this guy who does it and he like he would do the voice of like the dog or the thing or whatever it is.

21:03But I so, those ones I sit there and I'm so engaged. I'm like, I believe that this dog is saying what it's saying. Oh, I need to, that's not coming up from my algorithm. I'm not getting fed that. But I'm saying, I get some weird stuff from my algorithm. I'll get, you know, like I'm watching something really interesting. There's like 10 places you can never go. And I'm like, oh, bro, this is interesting, boy. And I'm like, oh, I'm not going to go there. I'm like, no, man, we would never go there. Do you know what I mean? We're not going to Alcatraz at any time soon. Although quite interesting. Yeah, yeah.

21:33But I think that's the thing, isn't it? Like for me, I need that thing to disconnect and not find the funny and just have it presented to me. Yeah. What about when you come off stage? Because like you say, you know, you're playing the O2. It's a big deal. There is pressure there, whether you're feeling calm about it or not. There is a pressure. You've got paying people who want a great time and you've got to be on your A game. And then you've got that overwhelming experience of thousands of people in front of you, laughing at you like that's not normal that's a really extreme situation to find yourself in or you know winning a bafta or hosting the brits these are big over stimulating experiences what's the is there a come down or what's that bit after like yeah when you have one of those shows and you know that everything went right you know the material went right they laughed at the you know the the crowd work i'd done i got a roar of laughter um it is an amazing feeling and i used to really always kind of feed that feeling a lot especially when I first started touring and doing shows I'd want to go out with my friends I'm like let's go out to a club and let's get bottles and because you want to keep feeding that adrenaline rush in some ways and that would always be the thing saying to the guys all right guys cool we ready everyone jump in the car get to the club and you get treated like hey what's up and it feels like it is literally how the films are hey was something like that yeah we got your table and it felt like like the high would never end in some ways but then I always say like the crash and the fall was even bigger if that makes sense because you know you you go home and you you've been you're you're drinking and like you're still on the high of how good the show was and you're around again I'm around my close friends and you get home and you you go to sleep and I would sleep because it's the adrenaline people don't realize when you get that adrenaline rush once it comes down you i would sleep for like 10 hours and be like i'm so tired the next day um you're giving off a lot of energy yeah yeah and i feel like i just think there's a i'm very much into like frequencies and energies and i think when you have an amass amount of people they're all there for enjoyment they're all laughing that's all there's a very positive energy frequency in the room and it's all being directed at you from all different corners it's very powerful it's very very very powerful it's until you do stand up i'd say or you've you know you've been in that situation where you're like oh my god everyone i don't i've not had it much in television but definitely in stand-up where i felt a bit down or i'm like oh i'm really tired and i get on stage and i'm like oh just had this injection of energy I don't know where it's come from But then I've kind of Started to realise I'm like I feel like You kind of know When you do stand up You're like Like every comic will say You're in the room You're like Oh Tonight feels nice man Like I can hear them And I'm like I look at my tour manager Jovan and I'm like Hey they sound good man And it's like Anything you say That you've got them In the palm of your hand It's a very nice feeling I think now though Whenever I do those shows My mindset has changed Because I take it a lot more serious I'm not trying to to kind of live the high life in a sense of like, I do the show, I go out and party.

24:49Whereas now I think I enjoy more just having like two minutes to myself off stage and just like, whew, that was really fun. And that's now my thing that I like. That's where I really kind of get to hone in on, you know, what I've just done and be like, ah, take a minute. Just enjoy that. You got to process it. Yeah, I think because I wasn't processing it before. and the way I was processing it was like, let's keep the high going. Let's keep adding a little bit more into the high meter, keep it up. And then the next day I would be shattered. I'd be so tired. I bet. And just being like, ugh. That's a very well-practiced route.

25:26Like every rock star in the history of time has gone, let's keep the party going. Let's keep the high. And you've got further to fall. The crash is really big.

25:41on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead, no rigid long-term contracts, just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. If you're a smoker or vapor ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zinn Nicotine Pouches, you'll discover many good reasons. Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand.

26:20Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction. But there's only one Zinn. Check out Zinn.com slash find to find Zinn at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. at Walgreens we know flu season can feel a little chaotic so we're going to give you our flu info in a meditation keeping you calm just like a certified Walgreens pharmacist will do if you're a little needle nervous so walk in or schedule an appointment and Walgreens will handle the rest that's the human kind of help Walgreens vaccine subject to availability state age and health related restrictions may apply.

27:11I mean, does playing the O2 feel like you imagined? Because I'm sure growing up or as soon as you thought stand up is my thing, you're going to look to those venues. And if you're an optimistic person, have your sights on I'm going to be playing on that stage one day. But of course, you know, it's never quite the same. You know, I had goals myself growing up as a teenager with like when I do this show or when I get to that level and you get there and you're like oh that's a bit disappointing yeah you know what's interesting with the O2 I used to try and do this whole like pretend I wasn't really bothered about it really because one of my friends once said he's like oh you know the O2 you know one comic said that you know when you play it it's not the best room to play because you know like the laughter gets like and it's got a delay on it.

28:00So you'll say something, it's got like a three, four second delay and then people laugh. God, that's annoying. And I remember taking that and running with it and I was just like, yeah, I'm not bothered about doing the O2 because I heard the laughter has the delay. I'm not really, I even said it once. I had a quote for some publication and they was like, would you want to do the O2? And I was like, I'm not bothered. Like, I've always loved it as a concert venue. I've seen tons of musicians perform there. And there is a part of me where I look around and I was like, I'd love to be on that stage one day but then on the back of my head I was like yeah but the laughter's got five seconds later don't really know if it's okay Beyonce you can have it tonight and then when the call came of like oh we're thinking of doing a show at the O2 and you know what about you doing a show there and I was like ah okay um because I had the opportunity to do my own show there and I didn't feel like at that time I was like I don't know if it's my time to do my show there just yet I didn't want to peak because it's such a big venue it's so iconic it's such a name and i i made the decision to say well what about if i've done my mo gilligan and friend show and do a black takeover and have a bunch of comics who are who have come before me and some who are up and coming and some that you know we're on the same kind of playing field if you want to say and um do that show and it never happened before and it felt so much better because i didn't have the pressure of just like oh yeah We're all looking at you.

29:26To do something and bring everyone else in and get everyone else involved, it felt like such a family environment. Everyone was excited. And whether it was people coming to the show, people performing, some people who hadn't done comedy for that long, but it was like, just, yeah, jump on the stage, man. That felt like a much better feeling than being like, well, I'm the one. This is my time to shine. And then I got the opportunity to do it again. And I was like, no, let's do a part two of the show because there was that, can we do it again? Or was it just a jinx because it was the first one? And I was like, nah, let's do it again, man.

30:00Get another bunch of great comics on there. So doing it this time myself, it's gone back to that, it's just you now, innit? So yeah, you now have to deliver the goods. We done this promo video, right? And the O2 was empty. And I was like, yeah, you can do a little promo video. Like take as long as you need. And doing this promo video, I was so nervous. I don't know why. I was like, my friend was filming me and he was like, okay, add action. Hey, what's up, man? This is the biggest show you're ever going to experience. Yeah. I was so nervous. I don't know why. I don't know the pressure of it. Yeah.

30:37But yeah, I'd be lying if I said there wasn't that pressure, even though I've got to do it before. I think before it was different because I've got a bunch of other comics. They're nervous. They're excited. but now doing it by myself there is a pressure that comes with it and realising you're like oh it's just me it's a big deal there's not like six other comics I mean I heard you talking to Jake on High Performance and you were talking about you know having these big goals and really honing in on them and going that's what I've got my sights on you've done you know you're going to be doing the O2 you've done Jimmy Fallon you're touring globally where do you have to take it further or do you get to a point where you're like, I'm happy just working the circuit and doing what I'm doing or do you always have to go higher?

31:21Is there always another goal above? Yeah, a little bit. I think I always want to keep pushing what I'm able to do because I think the things I've been able to do in a short space of time, there was a time where I was like, oh, is that even possible? And then the phone rings, you're like, oh, that thing's happening or, you know, it's like, oh, what about hosting the Brits? And you're like, oh, yeah, I didn't think I'd be able to do that. But yeah, let's do it. so um there it's a balance if i'm honest because there's parts of me that where i am now in life i really enjoy the smaller things in life i really enjoy like like i was saying like being at home being around my family and my friends and celebrating people's birthdays and being being really present i really enjoy that more than i ever have but then there's always the part of me that doesn't want to get comfortable and wants to keep reaching higher levels just to see where they go because i think whenever i started television and i was doing stand-up i was very like well you know do one tour that's okay and like oh what about doing a run you know on the west end and i was like i don't think anyone's gonna come and then tickets sell out and they're like oh cool what about you know having your own tv show and you're like oh cool man one season you're like you know it's nice to have one that's okay man and then they're like yeah cool it's been renewed for another which is of course is what was what you want and you're like okay cool and whether you start winning awards and stuff so I think for my there's a part of me that always wants to yearn and strive for more like when I wake up in the morning I'm like cool this is what I want to do I can see how to get there but in order to get there I need to also be extremely present more than ever I think I've always looked towards the future not much to the past so I think now I try to try my best of one feeling vulnerable again that feels very nice it's a really nice feeling to go into situations where people don't know you or you know you're doing something you're like oh this is different i'm being gonna be judged yeah this thing where you don't have the comfort of going out to your home audience you know doing the world tour was like oh okay going to finland i don't know who's coming they don't speak english as their first language yeah uh let's see how it goes do you tweak the humor for those global shows is that important to kind of cater to that audience or you just hope they jump on board with what you're doing you know when I first done the tour because we've done in the states I was like okay let's let's try to slow it down a little bit and they can understand it and I never forget I've done a show in LA some of my friends who came there they're comics guy called Willie Mack um and Danny Plume they're they're from LA and I I had this part about, I was like, oh, you know, when you travel, it's very annoying if you're on a plane for too long.

34:02It's like, you know, you have to always cream, always cream your skin. How annoying is it creaming your skin? And he wasn't getting a laugh. And I was like, this bit was going down in London, man. I don't understand what's going on. I'm like, what's happening, man? So, you know, there's a comment you just carry on. And they came backstage and I was like, yeah, man, you know, you said that bit about creaming. I was like, yeah, that don't mean what do you think it means here. I said, oh. They said, you want to say lotion. Oh, lotion. I said, oh, I said, what does creaming mean? They said cream. I said, okay, all right.

34:36We get it. Okay. That's what it means. So they think you're wanking on a plane. Yeah. Okay. And that's why he wasn't getting a laugh. And I'm sitting there like, what's wrong with you guys, man? You guys don't know comedy. And they're like, you dirty man. You strange man. And you're wiping it on your arms? is this what you're saying? I said, okay, all right, I get it. You're going to rewrite that bit. Yeah, so I rewrote it to lotioning and then it gets the laugh I was looking for. So I think I knew I had to tweak some things just so they can understand me. But as we started doing the tour and I started meeting people because I'd always do a meet and greet and the audience would either filled with a lot of Brits that lived in America or Australia or whatever part of the world it was.

35:20And the other half was people that was from from whatever country we was in or city we was in. And they were like, yeah, like I've seen your stuff on Netflix and I can't believe you came here. And it's like, I love your type of humor. And that was my kind of, that just gave me the kind of thing to say, okay, cool. Let me just keep it how it is. I don't need to change it. Maybe tweak parts of words that they don't understand as much. But yeah, we, you know, go into places like Denmark and I was like, are they going to get this bit? And I'd say it and I'm like, ooh, oh they get they get it i don't think you get that yeah and i think um yeah putting myself in that vulnerable place of going to places that i was like i don't know if anyone really watches my stuff here some places i would know toronto um new york but going to you know denmark or paris i was like are they gonna such a good challenge yeah it's a great challenge but it's nice to feel vulnerable it's easy no it's not so i can't say it's easy but to to feel i can get comfortable and just say, well, I'm just gonna play in the UK because that's where my audience is.

36:21But to take it to places where I was like, I don't know if anyone's even gonna come. And I would never ask, I wouldn't say, oh, what's the ticket sales like, or how many people are coming? Sometimes we would get there and it would exceed my expectations. And other times we'd get there and be like, oh, okay, cool, there's only 100 people. And then 10 minutes into the show, you've got another influx of another 100 people. They're just running late and you're like, oh, all right, there's a lot of people here tonight. So yeah, going back to the vulnerability and being in the present, I think makes me yearn for more, but also stay more grounded.

36:58Yeah, well, it's good that you're juggling both. I think putting yourself in that position where you don't know if you're going to get a laugh or be accepted immediately like you are on UK soil. That's a really healthy thing to do. What else do you think is driving that desire to have that ascent? I've thought about this so much over the years. and I'm writing a book at the moment and I'm sort of thinking about it myself because I think back in the day, like when I was a presenter exclusively, all I wanted to do is be the biggest presenter. Like how can I be like Ant and Dec? That's all I gave a shit about and just climbing the ladder and hoping that you'd somehow get there one day.

37:36Whereas I think I'm much less bothered about that. And I don't know if it's age or I mean, I'm not really presenting anymore, but even with what I'm doing with Happy Place, It's like, do I want it to be the biggest global thing? I don't actually know if I do. I want it to keep working because I like doing it and I would hate for it to stop because I would have no clue what else to do. So I want there to be momentum. I certainly want to feel challenged and like I'm constantly learning. But I don't know if I yearn for that. It's got to be the biggest in the world. What do you think is driving that scent?

38:12you know sometimes it's not always a positive sometimes it's you know for me even now if I feel you know oh I'm not doing well enough in this area it could come from a place of because I feel like shit about myself or because I didn't go to uni and I feel stupid so I need to prove to everyone else that I'm not you know it can come from a place of lacking what what do you think the balance is for you like what is that drive I think for me the drive is very early on I kept having these pinch myself moments that I'd you know I had it at the Brits where we had a break and you when you go to the Brits they have a huge screen and they have a countdown for when they have a break so it's a break guys but we're going to start again you have this countdown and it goes from five minutes to zero and I never forget I remember it very vividly of standing in the middle is how I came over when we start again and I'm standing there and everyone's doing what they're doing talking and this is me standing there in the O2 looking around and I was like oh this is absolutely mental and I had this real nice pinch myself moment I didn't physically do it but I was like oh wow okay this is where we're at right now in life this is this is life right now and just look what I'm doing and look the people I'm around and look what I've been able to go from one place to another and I think that's what keeps me wanting to do what I'm able to do but also just to achieve more whether it's those pinch myself moments you know like we were saying before going on a red carpet and being in front of the paps and you're like oh this is nice and I've had that a few times where it's like okay let's just take it in you know and I have a few those moments and I really enjoy those moments because it lets you know what you're sometimes doing it for you know and whether that is you know writing a book or being on stage or sometimes just meeting people that come to the show and they say something that just touches your soul and you know they say oh my god I was so depressed and I watched your special and it it really cheered me up so I made sure I came by myself and it I sit there and I'm like oh this is why we do it you know um and I think that's why I always want to keep achieving more wherever it will take me but I kind of do it for that a little bit um I also do it for a lot of people that also support my stuff I think the people I've been able to connect with that have come to my shows or watch television shows it's easy for me to sometimes forget you know until someone comes to a show of mine in I don't know maybe New York and they're like hey man can you sign my book and I'm like oh rah uh you read the book I'm like yeah I'm like yeah of course I'll like it's like yeah can you put this this book man i recommend it to everyone and it's that again for me it's a pinch myself moment but then for them is how they've connected with me that come sometimes puts it all into reality of like what you kind of do it for and just knowing that when it's hard there's someone i don't even know i've never even met that just supports me and i feel like i kind of want to do it for them a little bit as well you know whether it's the book or the television show or the podcast or whatever it could be I don't know it's just like well you kind of put your faith into me just to watch my thing when we can all sit there and sometimes be like oh I didn't like that or I can't believe what I looked like in that and they're just like hey man I really loved it man I was in a hospital bed and I'd done something to my knee but I really enjoyed that thing you're like oh okay yeah it just puts it all into perspective and I think for us we will always seek out escapism that kind of disconnects us to the reality of what we do as a job sometimes where we look for those normal things like I like gardening for example do you yeah like just planting here and there my gardener will listen to this flowers or are they vegetables yeah just little flowers I've not got to that bit yet I'm hoping that comes yeah like don't get me wrong my gardener will listen to this and he's like I I do.

42:08I'll tell you where to put them. Yeah. But like every now and then I go to the garden center and I like to just plant a little bulb here. You need the mundane to balance it out. Yeah. And it's that escapism. And I forget that someone else's escapism is listening or watching or coming to the thing that I do. So it's kind of like feeding the same ecosystem in some ways. And I think that drives me to want to do more. in in some in some aspects they are bigger things but there are i think that's also sometimes how some people can view it where you know sometimes i can do something i'm like oh that was cool oh i just seen you do this and i'm like oh i didn't i didn't judge it as that thing but hey go for it man yeah but also i think now i'm at a place where like i have to kind of i don't know i used to kind of reject those things that oh you know i'm just i'm just trying man you you know, just getting along, man.

43:02Well, I'm like, you know, sometimes I've got to say to myself, no, no, man, you're doing more for yourself, man. You've got to pay yourself on the back. Like, none of us do that. None of us stop to celebrate anything. From the tiny to the big, we're just like, whatever. It's a very, like, British mindset of like, mm, wasn't a big deal. Like, not a thing. Whereas actually we should be going, oh my God, I did good there. Like, that went well. We're allowed to do it. We're so bad at it. Yeah, I think it's a thing. It's interesting going over across to the pond where they, you know, they'll be like, yeah, man.

43:32Oh, they start writing all of it. Oh, my God. Like, I've done their film. It's one of my best films ever. You've got to check it out. And you're like, oh, okay. I believe you. And I think, you know, being able to go over there and see how they work has also been quite interesting for me in some ways where you're like, oh, okay. That's how you guys are in a room. But also it's so different to, you know, when I get in a room and they're like, so what are you working on? I'm like, yeah, man. It's got a comedy show next month. And yeah, yeah. Oh, great, man. Where's your shirt? I might come down. I'm like, oh, it's like the O2.

44:00What? Oh, my God. That's insane. You're like, yeah. I know. We're not very good at self-promotion in this country. But saying that, to do what you do at the level that you do it, you have to obviously have an immense skill set and learn your craft and do years and years of practice and obviously naturally be funny. They are absolute definites. But you also, because it is such a niche gig. Like if you were at, you know, school, seeing one of those careers advisors and said, I want to be a stand up, they'd be like eye rolling. OK, we're going to apply you to work in a local community hall. You know, it would never, you know, be up for you walking down that path.

44:41Yeah. It's so, so niche. You have to have, I would say, a healthy dose of inner self-belief to be able to stick to that path because you're going to get knockbacks. because you're going to do gigs where nobody laughs and you are thinking, why am I doing this? I should never have chosen this career path. Would you say that self-belief has been consistent? Have there been dips where you've thought, actually, I can't take this anymore? Because it's quite brutal being a stand-up comedian. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's brutal, man. You take a lot of bruises to the soul and ego when you do stand-up comedy because the more successful you get, you do have a little bit of ego where you're like, yeah, man, I've done a bit now.

45:24You know, I can walk into that crowd and anything I say, they probably laugh at. And then when they don't, you're like, ooh, what's going on here? But then there's also parts where you are up and coming and you've done a really good show and someone can come on after you who's a bit more well-known and you're like, oh, he didn't laugh at me, he laughed at him. And I think that's just the balance of before, you know, you might get to a place of where you want to get to a place too. But yeah, you need to have a level of self-belief in yourself to know that I think for myself I've always known that I'm funny and I can make people laugh before I ever done stand-up I was like um I'm funny my friends would say you should do stand-up I'm like yeah but that's a different level of funny so I also knew the types of funny because there's a funny with your friends and then there's like I'm on stage and the lights are hot and the mic is loud and when I mean the the lights are brighter than ever when you first go on stage and the silence is quieter than you could imagine.

46:23So you just know that anything that comes out my mouth now has to equate to a laugh now in some way. And it's very soul destroying. It's like, you know, when you do it, when you first start out, it is the make or break, whether you want to stick to it or you don't. I think for myself, I always knew I was funny. It was the one thing I was like, I'm good at this. Once I started trying to craft, okay, I've got this part about myself and I've got this and I'm going to angle it to that. And let's try and put a little punchline in there and see how that works. Once I really started crafting and architecting like what I thought comedy was, then it started to feel more fun.

47:02But you need to have, yeah, there's a level of self-belief. And I really enjoy, believe it or not, going to open mic nights and just watching because it takes me back to, ah, I remember what that was like. And you can see someone who you're like, oh, you've got it, you're really funny. Yeah. Like it will take time though. It's okay. But one thing I would say to comics or, you know, anyone, I meet a lot of young people and I want to do this. And I'm just like, be consistent. Like you'll have good days. You'll have bad days at any level you're at, you know, whether you're at a level doing arenas or you're just at a level doing open mics, it's just having the consistency.

47:35But even for myself, I think once I got into the realm of doing a little bit more television, I was like, I don't know, man, comedy. like because I was on such a nice steady run of doing my own show and then being a presenter on another show and I remember doing this show uh I think it was 2022 at improv in um in LA and I with my we me and my friends were out there for holiday and it was the best holiday ever just me and my close friends and I was like we had a nice house in the hills nice we all rented a car out It was the best holiday ever. And my agency in the States, CAA, was like, hey, Mo, we managed to get you a gig if you want to do some stand-up.

48:18And I was like, hey, that hasn't come in a while. But I was like, I'm on this high of just doing TV right now. And yeah, you know, jump on stage. And it was so humbling because one, I was completely in a different part of the world. But my mindset just wasn't there. You're in a holiday mindset. You're in like, I'm wearing shorts, walking around in the sunshine. I'll never forget. And the show went okay. It went okay. But there was the realisation of coming off stage and was like, Mo man, this is the thing that really got you here. Don't think because you're doing a little bit of TV now that it's all set and done.

48:54You have a lot more to do. And it really started changing my thought process to what I'm able to do. It was a nice kind of wake up call. Even though I was on holiday and we went to the beach, earlier in the day and we got one of these massive jugs and we put so much alcohol in it that everyone was like, oh, I'm hanging, man. And then there's me being like, all right. You got a bit of sunstroke. Okay, all right. So I'm going to go out there, do a bit of crowd work. Where's everyone from? I'm like, this is not going to work, is it? You're in LA. I was like. Oh no. Are you forgiving of yourself after stuff like that or do you beat yourself up a bit?

49:32It's a mixture of both because there's sometimes where I'm like, okay, well, well, I'm on holiday. You know, it's not my best set. Luckily, no one really knows me here. It would have been worse if I'd probably been in the UK because then you're like, oh God, he's not very funny in real life, is he? But then there's also times where I'm like, it's like I said, I was like, yeah, my man, this is the thing that got you here. Stand up is the thing that you love. It's your bread and butter. You can't just be like, I'm doing this television thing. It's okay. It pays all right now. I'm with my friends.

50:05you're like because again it can change in an instant with television you're not in control of it it's so many parts to the puzzle whereas stand-up I've always been in control of my destiny of doing stand-up where if I write more and I go to the clubs and I try new stuff out I can say ah cool I can piece this together for an hour I can make this a 20 minutes that's not good let's whereas television you you don't get that um that same comfort no so um I had to be quite hard on myself of like okay cool let's let's breathe let's take a minute let's get back to the drawing board yeah so rather than beat yourself up you're like there is a lesson in this and i'm going to take heed of it and we'll see where it takes me the market's uncertain revenues tied and hiring on hold that's why results driven companies are using upwork to keep work moving go to upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast.

51:01No bulky overhead, no rigid long-term contracts, just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. If you're a smoker or vapor ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zinn Nicotine Pouches, you'll discover many good reasons. Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand. Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zinn. Check out Zinn.com slash find to find Zinn at a store near you.

51:43Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

51:51I Instagrammed about this the other day I listened to your podcast with Jamie Lang and I was laughing I was out walking I was laughing out loud in a forest like people are going to think I've lost my mind I was howling at the storytelling it was just such a joy but one thing that you talked about was going to therapy and I mean I'm big on therapy I go every week I do not miss it it's totally changed my life what took you there in the first place? I think for me, I never, and I've said it a few times before, because I was always seeing the funny and everything, I needed a place that I could open up and be like, I feel really down.

52:29I feel really upset. I want to cry, but nothing's coming out. And when I leave this place, I can't, because people know me as Mo Gilligan, so I can't really express to anyone that I also wanted someone to just, a part of me was just listen. I think my perception of therapy was what I'd always seen in the film of someone in a lounge chair throwing a ball up and down. Do you know what I mean? And also from films I like. One of my favorite films is The Mask and how he goes to therapy. And he kind of connects to it. But he's like, yeah, but I'm this person, but I'm not. And so I think for myself, just realizing I had a lot of, I'd say, built up trauma that I never got to express anywhere.

53:14I didn't want to do it on stage because I felt well yeah let me talk about going out and especially the age I was at and where my peers are I don't think it was ready to listen to someone say oh I go to therapy and this is where I'm at it was a stage in my career where people like yeah like we know you as this character that you do online and we've seen this we kind of want to hear about that so going to therapy for me was yeah it was that I'm I remember going and I was like okay here we go let's let's unload all of this trauma and it's starting with a session that was like oh so um how did you get here today i'm like forget that i'm gonna tell you about the trauma man we're on the clock man but then as i started going i started understanding myself a little bit more yeah you know i get to i go to therapy now my therapist she would say okay before we start just stop just breathe feel the weight of the chair you're in and you know and she sometimes she'll say we will follow on from what we spoke about last time and other times she would say how do you feel in yourself right now what do you want to speak about or you've never spoken about this and I feel like it's been able to unlock different parts of my brain and my feelings that I've never been able to connect with in any other way.

54:35And I think that's the one thing I've always got a lot from therapy. You know, sometimes you go to therapy and you're like, whew, I am a brand new person. Oh my God. Hey, how are you? Oh my God, I'm fine. Are you fine? Let me, let me, if you're fine, you might not be fine. And sometimes I leave and I'm like, I got nothing out of that. Yeah. Or you think you haven't, but then maybe a couple of days in, you're like, oh, I get it. do you think um i mean okay well i'll tell you how what i feel and see if it resonates but when i first started therapy or sometimes even now i find it really hard to do that bit where i'm like in the chair feeling the chair in the room because a i'm used to putting a bit of a mask on because i'm in this setting where there's cameras or there's people that i don't know very well and i've got a job to do and i can't be maybe as sometimes when i'm on my own i'm like very very quiet shy I don't want to see anyone talk to anyone and this job is the opposite so I'm good at clicking into right and this is what I want to say to you and I know how to articulate it so I I find it hard to lose that and just to sort of get into the feeling bit but I think also when you're saying a minute ago about not crying like not letting yourself feel those big emotions I think this job has again impacted me negatively in that way because first of all you know there is always a certain amount of maybe backlash or commentary around well first of all I feel very lucky to go to therapy but people in the public eye where it's like what have you got to moan about you've got a fucking great life why are you going to therapy and I took that on board like yeah I've got nothing to moan about I'm fine and I know I wasn't fine clearly I wasn't fine but I took that so on board like don't feel any of it just be grateful and plow on and actually that is not healthy just to ignore it and suppress it do you think the job has stopped you getting in touch those feelings or does this predate your showbiz life I think some of it definitely carries from my past before I got to do any of this stuff and even before I got to do stand-up where as a young black boy growing up in South London you had to know when you walk out of your house you kind of I have to put a front on in some ways.

56:54All I liked doing was playing football and I just liked doing performing arts. That was the thing that I liked doing. So again, like I grew up in an environment where I had to put a front on in some ways and you're like, yeah, you know, I'm probably not gonna make it pro, but like, I like acting. But you can't really go into depth, you know, you can't be like, yeah, so there's this technique by Stanislawski and no one's connecting with me in that way. So when I come home, I had to box that all up as well. Being the youngest as well, I had to kind of box that up in some ways. And especially as a teenager, you kind of get into your routine called play computer games.

57:36Might go out, you don't have much money. And look, I always see it from a point of view where I was quite fortunate enough that I never got involved in anything crazy when I was growing up. do you know what I mean it wasn't about that life if I'm completely honest like I am very ticklish I am very silly and like no one would want me to go on a ride out because they're like yeah it is not about that and I just like making people laugh as well so and I used to like football at that time as well so I think there was a lot in terms of you don't you're not I don't know you're just not able to express yourself in a way that now it feels very normal the older you get to sit with a friend and say hey man can I speak to you about this thing whereas I think when you're in your teens and especially going to your early 20s and everyone's cracking on with life and before you know it you're like oh you're doing that you've got a job and you're all saving up for cabos I must go to cabos too the fear of FOMO in your 20s is one of the most horrible things I think I've ever experienced um of like ah I feel like I'm missing out I didn't go but I've seen and then social media just kind of started where it was kind of Facebook the Facebook era of oh everyone's getting tagged in pictures oh man I want to go man I want to be on a moped in Ayanappa too yeah um and I think all of that boxed in of wanting to do this thing that is stand-up and no one ever of viewing it is like it's not really a real thing is it kind of a hobby um and also I think my family didn't understand I feel like um parents now a bit more open to the world of the creative arts in some ways you can see the the the journey and the formula some ways you can see it oh I've seen this yeah I've seen this person go from that and he's in that he's in a film oh I get it you gotta go drama school whereas I was at college and I was like I want to do performing arts and mom's like oh cool that's all right you know you want to do as long as you're not in trouble i don't mind so again there's no one you know when you have bad days also at college or university there's there's no one i could ever speak to that could understand how i felt in that moment so i had to cope with a lot of stuff myself you know uni was a big one where we had to do this performance technique i'll never forget it it was called comedia dell arte so you had to perform with a mask.

1:00:02So you know there's like really like eloquent like leather masks and they've got like a peak of like a crow. Oh yeah, they're wearing them at like the Venice Mask Festival or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's an art form called Comedia dell 'arte. We had a guy come in teaching everyone. I got made one of the leads in the plays. I was like, all right, cool. And this guy come in, this Italian guy. And I was trying my best because you have to be up with your body and you have to use, you know, the mask is what's acting, but it's you using your body movements a bit like how you know the dance from clowning is kind of crumping it's a bit like that so you're gonna have to use your body and i was learning the lines but because i'm dyslexic i'm really i really struggle with um learning a script i can retain it once i've done it a few times because it becomes muscle memory but like reading it for the first time and then doing it i was like i'm really struggling and i've got this part and this guy never forget he goes ah this is not very good you're not very good and he would say it out in front of everyone and i was like i've never experienced this before never experienced someone just saying to my face you're not good and i'll never forget every day we was doing rehearsals as soon as rehearsals were finished i would go central london i just got my student loan at the time i'd go shopping that was my thing i was like i'm gonna go footlocker buy some trainings go to this shop and buy some other stuff every day i was doing it back to back back to back and then we've done our performance and you know everyone's bowing on stage he comes on stage we do the whole oh you know this is the guy who's come all the way from italy and um he took a bow and i was like you know what mo and i can't i cannot stand this guy and i said you know what mo like let's just put that to one side because i've learned something he put me in a vulnerable place i've never been in and i was like hey man i just want to say like i found this really difficult but thank you so much for pushing me and never forget he said to me he was like yes but still you're not very good and this was like as people are clapping and my whole energy sunk I felt like bursting out in tears and everyone was like hey you know after you know actors and hey man well done like you're so good man people had flowers for their loved ones when they come to the show I remember also because what I was doing when I was doing like performing arts at the time to say to my friends hey guys I've got this play you guys want to come and support I knew my friends didn't really want to come So I didn't really ever want to invite them I knew my mum didn't really understand some of the things I was doing So then afterwards Everyone's got their family and friends They have a bunch of flowers And I've had this guy say to me I'm not very good I felt like the earth had swallowed me up And I was just like But then I remember wanting to cry I really wanted to cry and burst out in tears But I couldn't because everyone knew me as funny Mo And oh Mo you're funny man And yeah, he was the lead and I had to box this up.

1:02:53So I think by the time then I did get to therapy, I had so much stuff boxed up and just, and that's just a small incidence. Yeah, but those things stay with you. Like I'm sure everyone listening to this, and I'm thinking about a million as you're talking, little things dotted through childhood and the teen years where one person has said something to you, a passing comment that he's probably never thought about ever again. And it is stuck. It stays with you. and it can be a driving force for either you pushing and pushing and wanting to succeed more or giving up on the other side of the coin you know it this shit stays with you yeah it always stuck with me in a way that when I look at past behaviors of you know I remember when I started doing social media and then channel four we're like hey we're gonna give you a show I walked around I walked from Victoria just around central London I never think I just walked it's like a very overcast and I kept on walking knowing that my life would change but at the same time thinking oh what are people gonna think like are they gonna like the show is it not and um but just realizing I was as much as I just had news that was very good I kind of took it and transferred it into bad news of like oh but my life's gonna change and I don't know and again I just went walking around central London into a lot of shops never been in and then the same habit happened again where I just started shopping um because it feeds that quick dopamine yeah like let me buy something and yeah for a long time that was a big habit of yeah okay cool all right I've had bad news so it's fine but I'll just buy a thing something I've always wanted um and yeah it just it just carries on and I think going to therapy has allowed me to see the flaws in myself kind of confront them but also challenge myself of like okay cool that's how I feel um I don't really like confrontation as well so realizing I'm like ah sometimes you need to be a bit confrontational and probably in the last like five years you know I've sat and I've been like sorry excuse me can you stop banging my chair like do you know what I mean and I feel like yeah I felt good man I felt good about that because before you just be seething internally passive aggressive anger boiling point yeah man so i feel like i think that's what therapy has allowed me to do um and allowed for me is challenge myself um look at my flaws but also correct them but also for myself being like hey man i've i've got work to do but also it's all right like you know if Sometimes you want to be confrontational.

1:05:34That's okay. Sometimes it's okay to take a step back and say, do you know what? And say something, but this is not worth it right now. And that's also okay. So I think that's what I've kind of enjoyed about going to therapy. I let Mosiah have his time because everyone knows me as like Mo Gilligan. My full name is Mosiah. So I sit there, I'm like, ah, this is Mosiah's time. Let's reconnect with who this person is. I love that. I love that. Mo, to finish. yes where is your happy place oh my happy place um it's probably on a sunny day in my garden oh yeah yeah it's in my garden I think that's probably my happy place I sat there the other day of a coffee and the sun was just blazing in my face and I was just like oh this is and I got the birds singing and stuff like that so i think that's probably my my true happy place we were speaking about home before but i think yeah just in my gut and you know it's lucky enough to have a garden in london in general but that's the one place especially when the grass is cut that smell oh man i do kick-ups i do some kick-ups in the garden and it's just like oh this is fun man yeah i can i can do whatever i want in here and i realize i'm like oh i think my neighbour's looking at me let's stop but yeah I'd probably say my garden yeah well I'm absolutely buzzing for these O2 shows for you thank you so much I bet it's going to feel so amazing walking out on that stage and the audience are going to have an absolute blast and good luck with the continued success of your podcast and everything you're doing is just fucking impressive and and you've given me so much joy over the years whether it's watching The Singer or listening to you on podcast it's like I just it's just been a joy so thank you No, thank you.

1:07:25Thanks for having me on the pod, man. And honestly, Fern, like, I know we haven't met, but I feel like I've known you for such a long time. But your voice is very calm and chill. I feel like I could chat to you for another three hours, man. We could. This is always the problem with these podcasts. I love it because it's long form. It's not long enough. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. We could keep talking for days. Yeah, but no, I think what you do is sensational. The way that you've been able to go from television and you do podcasting and, you know, but you're also like, you know, you're a mum as well and you have to juggle so much stuff that you make it look very effortless, but you're very, very good at what you do, do you know what I mean, as a broadcaster, but just as a person.

1:08:02So yeah, thanks for having me on the pod, man. I appreciate that. Cheers so much. No worries, man. And the best cardigan we've ever had on the podcast. Oh, love, man. I get a lot of compliments on this cardigan, you know. It's so good. Yeah, thank you. I've got so much time for mohair. Yeah. Mo with his mohair. That's the best. Oh, Mo. Thank you so much. first of all I really want Matt Cardigan I mean I might I wish that he'd done what Zayn from One Direction did Zayn Malik and just left it for me but I didn't hint heavily enough clearly but I loved that I just absolutely loved getting stuck into the mindset of a comedian how you cope with audiences that big his sort of sense of ambition it's all utterly fascinating Mo's new podcast Mo Gilligan Beginning Middle and End is out now wherever you like to listen to your podcasts what did you make of this podcast episode with Mo it's all getting a bit meta isn't it but let's carry on chatting about this on Instagram at happy place official during the week that's where you'll find us and by the way there'll be a link to an episode in the show notes called how to laugh when you've been to hell and back it's a load of different happy place guests chatting about using humor as an emotional release I think that you're going to really like it if you liked this episode alright until next week again a huge thank you to the brilliant Mo to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios and to you because you are ace

1:10:03We'll be right back.

1:10:18Find ZIN at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.