Molly McCann: Therapy, combat sports, and menstrual cycles

0:01Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that explores different ways of healing. Today, I'm chatting to Molly McCann. When I walk to the cage, I am fucking free. My shackles are off. There's been a few times I go to my manager, take them off, lad, and he just, like, pretends to take my shackles off, and I'm like... I get to go and be because I'm fluid, I am expression. That is my purest form. That is how Molly McCann knows how to express herself. I've got this mantra, I'm too fast, I'm too strong, I'm too fucking good. Anyone's life, I touch, I change. I'm due a lot, but not today.

0:38Not a fucking day. Molly is a long-time veteran of the UFC, that's the Ultimate Fighting Championship, and says combat sports are what gave her confidence in everyday life. She's an ambassador for youth charity Weapons Down, Gloves Up, and is a really vocal supporter of mental health and LGBTQ plus awareness, which all stems from her own struggles in coming out and in employing a mind coach to help her work through the pressures of fighting. In fact, she's filled her life with loads of really cool ventures. She's written a children's book called Be True to You, based on her own story of self-acceptance.

1:18She owns an Italian restaurant in Liverpool called Polpetta. And alongside best mate and fellow fighter Paddy Pimblett, She's starring in a new BBC Three reality show called Paddy and Molly, Show No Mersey. Clever. I like it. This chat, all the stuff about the kind of mindset you have to have to be an elite athlete. It was so fascinating and I think you're going to love it.

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2:53Right, let's do it. Here's the show.

3:16Hi, Molly. Hi, love. How are you? I'm all right. It's a proper strange senior in real life. And you? I've spent the last few weeks watching literally every video that you've ever been on. Oh, really? It's been a real education for me, getting to know the world of UFC. That is for sure. I feel like I've got a school report written in front of me there. Now, what you need to know about me is that I'm a nerd. And I like to have this little notepad and my little purple pen and have all my notes there. Just so I know what I'm talking about. Because also, I think to delve into someone's life and backstory does require a hell of a lot of prep for me to do that properly.

3:56And you've got one hell of a story that I've been really enjoying learning about over the last few weeks. I want to start by talking about fighting. Your next fight is in the summer. It is indeed. July? It is, yeah. I haven't got an opponent yet. However, the card got announced two days ago and it'll be up north. So it'll be in Manchester. I haven't fought in the northwest for about six years, five years. So being a northerner, it's nice to be bringing her home. I've got great memories in London fighting in the O2. But to bring her home, it's just a different vibe. I can drive there from my house.

4:35Yeah, I love it. Do you know what I mean? I love it. So what's the training schedule at the moment? How's that going? So we are 13 weeks out. Right. A fight camp would tend to be 12 to 8. I err on the side of caution, so I'll go maybe 14. Sometimes it's a bit too long in here to be that zoned in, but I just like to give myself extra time for illness, injury, menstrual cycle. This is things people wouldn't think about, But like when you're, if you're having a bit of a bad time, you need a little bit of a day off here and there. Do you know what I mean? It's so important to talk about the menstrual cycle in terms of, it is like elite sport for women.

5:15I think about it all the time if I'm watching the Olympics or women's football. And you're just like, oh my God, this is something that men in sport don't have to deal with. And it's not just when you're on your period. It's the whole damn cycle and the shift of hormones. How does that affect you? Especially if you're coming up to fight day and you're not feeling great. Well, we do it for a scientific reason because, say, if I have to weigh in on the Friday, so I have to make weight Friday morning. Thursday, I'd have to cut the weight, so we have to sweat off a certain amount of pounds to make the weight.

5:51But depending on what part of the cycle you're in or what phase you're in depends on how much water you're retaining. And so if I know I'm due on round about the fight time, I'm like, oh, because it means I'm going to retain water. I'm going to be more hungry. I'm going to be hurting more. And it's going to be harder to shift the weight. There's obviously not many people do a lot of, they don't delve into it enough, I think, because women in sport and at that elite level. It's just been like, yeah, you just get on with it. You know what I mean? But I think we're at a moment now, especially with women in football, where we're really starting to learn about it.

6:30I don't know, Emma Hayes, when she got the job at Chelsea, she employed someone to really learn about that because I'm sure there was a study released saying that when someone comes on and the first two or three days, you're 80 % more likely to tear your ACL. Is that right? Yeah, so because you're just much more tighter in your ligaments and everything's a lot more just, you're not as bendy, you're not as flexible and stuff. So I know the older I've got, the harsher my symptoms have become. So when we're training, just because of years of knowledge and communication with my coaches, I'd never take a day off.

7:06Like, even when I'm bad, I'll come in the gym, train through injury, and it takes my coaches to look at me to go, go home today, man. Like, they'll know. I'll not know when I'm going to come on, but they can, like, Like, my face just, like, I look tired and my coach goes, did you sleep last night? I go, yeah, he goes, just rest. But where I'm doing wrestling and jiu-jitsu and stuff and you're getting thrown into different ways, we just choose not to train that for the day or two, just a bit precautionary. I've had 20 pro fights. I've been in the game for 11 years. Now, we know I'm not just trying to have a day off and I need to look after myself.

7:42Yeah, of course. I mean, I just don't know how you do it. It's unbelievable. because even if I'm doing this and I'm on my period, I'm like, oh, I just let your brain fog and you just feel a bit sluggish or you might feel really bloated. And to think about the physicality involved in what you do, I can't even imagine it. So I hope to God that there is going to be more research, more of a push for this to be taken into consideration, that there to be, I don't know, just more knowledge about it out there so that you athletes can work to your optimum. I think in what we're doing in the combat sport, there's been a lot done with it.

8:22And I think we're just aware, like I said, when we're training and stuff, what to do. But there was people who were trying to take contraception, like take the pill to stop the period. But then they couldn't cut the weight. And loads of madness, people taking diuretics to try and help them lose weight. But then that's a performance answer. so then they got a two-year ban. This is going back a couple of years when people were just uneducated but they're a little bit more educated now. But slow and steady, it's getting a little bit better. But just the hardest part is if you're on fight day and it's like you just have to push through.

9:02I won't ever wear white or wear grey because I've just got this fear of imagine coming on. I mean, I can't. It's so huge. And you know when we're talking about maybe body dysmorphia and the way that we feel, I'm someone who would never project my body online. I might get drunk online and put pictures up being merry. I choose to put that out there, but I wouldn't really put stuff in bikinis. It's just not my bag. It's just not what I'm about. But I think, imagine having to wear that little bra, them little shorts, and then you're on so you're bloated. When people meet me, they go, oh, you're a lot skinnier in real life, aren't you, than when you look like on the telly.

9:41And I'm like, oh, thanks. But I think sometimes, like, if you're on and that and you get the bloat and you just... There's been fights where I've come on fight morning. And emotionally, I'm like, thank God for that. But then I'm just like... Paranoia. How am I going to be now? But the more education that I've done, when you actually come on, you're actually able to recover quicker. It's like, it's that weak. so like I'm not going to be as tired in the exchange I'm going to be a little bit better so and it's just about I guess knowing your cycle and knowing your body and working with it but again you need the support to be able to do that and to even have it as a consideration because it feels wild that in female sport it hasn't been a consideration until very recently and it's such a huge thing to have to go through I know and I just feel now because we're voicing it I feel like we get so much hate like are women being women again and this that and the other Tough tits, yeah we are.

10:38This is biology, so I've got to get, yeah. There's nothing we can do about it. No, yeah. It's a huge, huge deal. It's a huge deal. What I'm so fascinated about whenever I speak to elite athletes is the mindset that it takes. And it'll be different for everybody, but what mindset do you have to have to step into a big fight where the pressure's on? I have to kind of take myself to a place that no one else can come with me. and it's very damaging, I think, to people around me and somewhat to myself sometimes as well. In what way? How would you... Is it just you've got to be single focus? It's like, say, I have to shut myself off to the world, to my relationships, to my fiancé, to my mum.

11:25Like, everyone kind of understands what a fighter has to go through when you're consistently around it. But say now I'm thrust into the spotlight, you have to meet a lot of people, do you know what I mean? And you have to just be so track-minded. It's hard to not have the energy to take other people's feelings into consideration when your only goal is to get in there, win, not get hurt, not have a life-threatening injury and get out safely, bring the bag home for the family. That's what you have to do, do you know what I mean? But I think it's such that them 12 weeks can be such a long time in your own head, pushing yourself to that place where no one else can go.

12:08So when you're in the cage, the ring, the octagon, wherever you fight, you know that you can go to that place and your opponent's probably not going to be able to go there with you. that's what my mindset and where I would like to go with my mind. But it's just really hard because I'm quite an empathetic person. I try to light up a room. I try to make everyone feel amazing about themselves and just really grateful that we're in this opportunity. Every day is a gift, do you know what I mean? And then that kind of gets stripped away from you. So you kind of have to grieve that. And then you just have to be so harsh.

12:47and it just changes your relationship with people for that time and then it's hard for them to just snap out of it. I think my relationship would take a big toll on that. It's quite hard. It takes time to then grow back together after the fight camp because, say, my fiancée, Ellis, we'd be like this at the beginning of a fight camp and then the second camp starts, I've got to go that way and she's coming with me but has to not take it as rejection because it's not rejection, it's just my work. do you know what I mean and then at the end I'm ready to come back to this and she's like I'm a little bit more independent than when you last left me and then it's a lot to come back and say some relationships would thrive in them situations like me and my mum have quite a turbulent relationship sometimes from what we've gone through growing up we were both heads because we're very similar and then in these moments when I need wisdom I need guidance and I need someone to help me through it and to let me know.

13:47I have to ring and go, am I being off-key or am I just, like, am I mentally really not with it or am I just fucking really exhausted? Yeah, I'm really emotional. And I imagine, like, parents might get it sometimes when they haven't slept, they've got kids, they've got work, they're worrying about this. Like, am I being a bit off? Like, is my perception of reality right right now or is it not? Do you know what I mean? And I think they really... You need people to keep it honest. Being a scouser, I'm very fortunate that that's a trait that we're really good at. Sometimes it's a little bit too much, but sometimes it's just the right amount.

14:20And yeah, it's just, the mindset is 80%. And I think, I'd say over the last few years, it's somewhat changed. And I think to the level of fame I've attained, or I don't like to say fame. I just like the amount of people that know me now, because I'm just not about this. I just don't like that whole connotation or notion of fame. I just really fucking hate it, to be honest. I just think, yeah, it's... It's a lot of pressure. It is. It's a hell of a lot of pressure. I feel like I've reached this height of, oh my fucking God, I've made it. I've really made it here. Everyone, all I wanted was for people to go, you are actually good at fighting, you know?

15:07I am on the level where men are. But I think if you ask people about MMA and the UFC, they're probably going to hit you with four names and I'll probably be at least one of them. Or if you go, do you know any women? It's definitely I'm probably up there with them. And that's a big thing. But it took so much of me and I know that you'll be able to resonate with it with your journey. But it really took everything from me and I really had to delve deep. and I went on a few different ways to try and heal myself. I went more spiritual, like a more spirituality way where I started speaking to a guy called Martin Bone and he's very big into meditation.

15:52He's a silent retreat. I kind of was like, I can't do therapy right now. I'm at the height of my career at the minute, not even, nothing wrong had happened and I had not, like, my central nervous system was gone. I couldn't leave the house without panic attacks. I literally was having dreams that I was going to take my own life because I was just like, I'm not happy. I'm not smiling. I am freaking out at leaving the house because everyone thinks they know me and the person I am wants to give them that and wants to give them a piece of me. But every time I'd have that conversation or give someone their needs, mine weren't being met.

16:33and it was just, I just put myself like, I'm not saying by any stretch of the means that I'm like a Justin Bieber or a Whitney Houston or anything to that level of fame, but I understand why people end up in the pride. Yeah. Like, I understand. It's an unnatural dynamic to be in that there is no actual preparation for. You can prepare for a fight, but you can't prepare for that. And I think also the world of sport to me seems like when we look at fans specifically, it is full on and it is fickle. It is so fickle. And what was really interesting when I was doing a deep dive into watching all these videos and interviews you'd done and then looking at the commentary, the fickleness around fighting seems outrageous.

17:26And there were times where you lost two big fights in 2022 and 2023. Back to back. Back to back. And everyone's giving you all this shit and saying that there was hype around you, yada, yada, yada. Then this February, you spectacularly win this fight. You're in a new weight class. You shock everybody. And everyone's like, oh, I've always thought Molly was the best. It's like, wait a minute. A couple of years ago. And I'm looking at this with fresh eyes going, this is actually, and it's the same people who change their mind overnight. Yeah, and I think, honest to God, like, I was literally having this conversation with my coach, Paul Rimmer.

18:06He went, do you see how you always took it so personal? He went, yeah. He went, do you just see it in a bigger picture now? I said, yeah, but it's changed now. Now it's everyone. Where before it went, it was just the two kids from Liverpool, Paddy and Molly. Like, they're just the easy ones to just take the piss out of or whatever. but I just think it took a lot of growing like in the moments of being so low I had to learn like where I've come from and what I've achieved and I'm living my truth, my honesty in front of the world I'm learning my craft on the job I got signed to the UFC like within nine fights amateur and pro like that is not a lot of time to learn to be a professional and elite athlete like I am growing before the public's eye and what, when I'd won them fights, and I never got above my station.

18:57I never got above my station, do you know what I mean? But I think with the sponsorships and with everything that came, people was just kind of thinking, why the fuck she deserved that? Or look at them too, Aaron Patrick, blah, blah, blah. I find this so fascinating because when I was, when I was getting a hint of this happening, people thinking that you were getting above your station or whatever language you want to use, I was like, is she not just celebrating her success? sorry what what's to say when sorry can we not do that anymore can we not celebrate about our achievements and i wonder i've definitely felt this over the years with any feedback i get really like unnerved and my nervous system's totally fucked yeah and it stops me from personally celebrating moments i just go next what's the next thing well okay i've done that what's the next thing i don't allow myself to and i wonder if you're feeling that Yeah, I think because the job's not done, I haven't completed the goals.

19:56I've become a world champion and then I've come into this new, the elite upper echelon, the best you can ever get into. If you imagine how many people in the world do MMA at my weight category, there's faith, you have us here. Yeah. And we're fighting, we're all killers. We're all world champions coming together, fighting world champions. It's the most honest sport in the world. You can't hide, you can't fake it, you can't roll over, do you know what I mean? And I don't smell the roses, I don't sit there, I'm not proud of myself in certain moments, do you know what I mean? It's a shame though.

20:32It is, but I just think that my reason for it is I didn't never, through personal growth and my journey, I've been doing a lot of therapy at the minute, a lot of this EDMR stuff. I've done it, it's amazing. It's hardcore. Listen, I... It's hardcore. The biggest difference for me, if I can relate it all to everything that you're kind of saying at the minute, what changed for me when the fickle has changed was I actually don't owe anyone to hear my truth. I'm out here searching for this acceptance through fighting. I want you to know, wow, look at where I've come from. I have superseded any expectation ever put on and placed upon me.

21:15I'm fucking, I'm living my dream every single fucking day like I'm from somewhere and been through some shit that people never make it out of and look where I am, look what I'm doing that should be the win for me but here I am wanting acceptance of fucking Brad from Dover or somewhere do you know what I mean and I'm just like oh my god but why, why do we think this way? I know, isn't it mad? We want the acceptance of absolute strangers so that we can feel okay and we're all doing it we're all out here going please just like me just say that I'm okay and that I'm normal and that everything's okay and we're never going to get it and it's a hard thing to land on acceptance in that situation but obviously alongside that I think most people in the public eye whatever the background, whatever the career there is an element of needing or wanting validation I think people that say they're not in it for that are probably lying there's an element of it, it might not be the whole truth But of course for you, there is also this fire and this determination that you have to be the best.

22:22And I think when you're an elite athlete in whatever capacity, you can't be any broader than that. It has to be, I want to be the best, full stop. Where does that come from? Because that's not about validation. That's a relationship you have with yourself. So where's that coming from? Well, I think going through all this therapy at the minute, I've really actually untangled or unknit my psyche, my everything and what I'm really about. And I think when it stems back, every single thing stems back to my childhood and abandonment and attachment. And they're my biggest traumas. And working with my therapist, Martin, we kind of seen that I felt love or acceptance when I was winning in sport.

23:16So I wasn't academically gifted. I missed quite a lot of school growing up. I was undiagnosed with ADHD for quite a long time and I just couldn't sit there in school and take it in. And the trauma that had been going on in my life, I'm not fucking surprised. Do you know what I mean? I'm not surprised. I wasn't just wanting to read a book. I was like sitting there panicking most days in school anyway but the times that I felt good and I felt positive about myself and the times that I could excel was when I just didn't give up so you look at me now when I was a kid and I was at school I was like four foot knot and probably weighed about four stone tiny little thing but I just had this thing where in my mind And I couldn't read well.

24:03But what I was always good at was expressing myself and being driven. And I wanted to win. And if I was in a position to tell a story, I'd try and tell it the best that I could. And then if I was running round as that girl, egg and spoon race, I am just going to give it. And then that's when I'd feel that positive. And I was like, maybe this can be the thing that I'm good at. because I always used to think in my head, if I can't do the academic stuff, surely they shouldn't be able to do the sporty stuff as well. They don't get both bags. It's one or the other. And I'm mad that must sound in my head.

24:40But I thought, heart beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. And I thought, you're a product of your environment, so I can't quit in my life. And my mum didn't quit on me, and my family didn't quit on me, and that's why we all survived. So I'm just going to keep on going, keep on going, keep on going. and then I think I just, there was no UFC, there was no 125 weight category that I fight in when I started fighting. So I'm fighting with blind faith that I'm just going to make it in this. Like I was at uni actually doing a degree and as I'm about to finish my dissertation, I seen some woman fight on the telly and I thought, I'm actually going to go and do that, like ADHD brain bump.

25:22I'm going to go and do that. I reckon I can do that. went into the uni the next day said to me, I'm not coming back. I'll finish like the remaining stuff online. And I finished my dissertation online. I'm not coming in. And she's just kind of like, how long have you been doing this? I went tonight to my first, my first lesson. And she went, for fuck's sake. But I love that. I love that. Like you, like you must have had it. You've got, you've stepped into rooms or you've had this like, I'm going to do that project. I'm going to do this. And then you've just, you've just knew haven't you you do and otherwise you wouldn't wouldn't even bother trying if you didn't have some weird inexplicable feeling that that is the path that you've got to go on she's got her energy drink guys what is it ASMR oh shit oh no the party's getting started I don't know my supplement sponsor's going to kill me yeah just cover the label

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27:48Now I'm really fascinated in this because I think for most people we can sit here and go why is my life like it is today for good or bad and it always goes back to childhood and it's not a fun thing to do necessarily but you've got to go back and start digging around in it and looking about you know like what happened and why and how you reacted to it to figure out why you are like you are today. Now your childhood, as you've alluded to, was unstable to say the least. So your dad wasn't about, your mum is deep in addiction for your younger childhood. You at some point decided at a very young age, from what I understand, that that would not be the path for you.

28:29And I find that extraordinary because I think it differs obviously every time, but you can see in families where there is patterns of addiction that it just goes through the generations because it's learned behavior and it becomes a coping mechanism or just it could be simply the norm yeah why do you think you were able to break that chain of behavior in your family I remember walking into a room as a kid and I just seen like paraphernalia on the table and I must have been five and I had this such overwhelming feeling in my belly like heartbreak thing I just, I wouldn't want to say what I'm saying but I was just like, fuck's sake that's wrong, that is so wrong and I just thought, I'll never be, I can't be like this and my moral compass like obviously it's well documented that my mum is my hero because it's 25 years clean last week Jordan Bairn and And I am who I am because of her, and I know that, but I remember walking into that room and just being like, fuck's sake.

29:42And I just knew in that moment, I vividly, this is one of like, when I've been doing the therapy and there's seven big stages of my life that I've had to work through with the trauma, like these single phased moments I've had to work through, and that was one of them. and it's just like, I just, I'm going to be better than that. I'm going to be better than that. And I think it's always been a drive and force in me to just not... I think loads of people might resonate to listen to this. Like, my family was quite heavily addiction on both sides, whether it's gambling, it's drink or it's drugs. And where we're from in the 70s and 60s and the 80s, our area was kind of ravaged by the Conservative government.

30:31The docks were shut. No one had money. Everyone was trying to find... Everyone was eating from food banks again back then and people were just trying to find a way to work through it. And the culture was very much different. The men just went to the pub. That's what the men did. And then the women have to just shut up and get on with it and raise the kids. And then the men come home and then batter the wives and then the kids have to see it. and it's just this cycle of, I'm not saying that's what it's like everywhere, I'm not saying that's what every house is like, but in them urban areas where poverty is massive and people aren't eating and people aren't surviving and the stress to provide for your family is taken from you, this is reality and this is how people numb them pains to try and get through it.

31:12That's what everyone's seeing and I think I've seen my nanny broke her generational case by helping looking after me and her grandkids and my mum broke her mum's case by the step work and the journey she's on and her job now and what she does and then that was filtered down through me. I'm an NA baby so I've been going to meetings since I was about five or six and conventions and I've sat in rooms and listened to shares my whole life and I've just been very open, I think, to listening to, not judging people for where they're coming from and what they've overcome. and I've just always seen positivity, do you know what I mean?

31:54Like, I've always seen people from zero always manage to break through and obviously there's some times when people would relapse and then they'd die because I think when people go clean for a long time and then they have that relapse then they just end up, like, the body just doesn't hack it, do you know what I mean? And I just think I've always seen that growing up and I just thought, like, I just can't go that way, I just can't go that way and what I did learn for fear is my attachments went to fighting. So when the people left in my life, I wouldn't grieve that. I'd just put my head down and fight.

32:31And that was me thinking, I've got one or two ways, my learnt behaviour. And sometimes what I did do was go out on the hill and be an idiot and just trying to escape and have that moment of, on the dance floor, I really am alive and feel safe. And when I feel music, that is a bit of a therapy for me. however I would probably make it quite toxic by getting intoxicated doing stupid shit partying for days and just not then protecting myself after it or do I go on long runs, do I be disciplined, do I go to the gym and that was like my coping mechanism but I did never deal with anything and then I think yeah it just kind of all came to a bit of a head do you know what I mean like about last year or this year I think I was just like, I kind of can't keep doing that because you can mentalise or however you say the word, you can do that enough, but once the storage is full, it's like if you're a computer and you've got no, like there's no more storage left, you've got to go and upgrade and the way by you're doing that is going to the therapist.

33:33And you can't be on the run forever. Yeah, yeah. You can't, you know, and I think we've all done it to an extent. I sometimes wonder if I, am I still a bit on the run from stuff I don't want to look at because it's easier. You just go, don't look at that and work really hard at something that you enjoy or whatever feels like escapism. But actually, you can't outrun it. And like you said, you hit a wall and you had to take a deep dive into it. What was that like? Like, obviously, you had a really astute awareness of what was going on from a very young age, which I also find deeply interesting because that whole nature nurture thing.

34:05that makes me think in your case part of you turned up into this world with a brain that worked in that way that went I'm not going to do that because at five you don't really have the common sense to make an informed decision based on fact you're just kind of going with what's normal but you kind of know. I think it was I just think safety I think I may have been put into positions where I wasn't safe and I knew in that environment I wasn't safe do you mean I was not protected there um so I just knew to not be around that and my Ellis said you're gonna cry today and I know because I'm proper like I'm in the therapy at the minute yeah well it's a lot and if you you know you don't have to get into this stuff now if it's too much because I know what that's like and then you have to go out of the studio after and be a human.

35:01At seven, I've got a call to just flush out some of the stuff anyway. Good, good. Because it's full on, this stuff. I don't think people understand how tough it is, do you know what I mean? And I don't think people are honest enough to say and to talk about it all. And just like the stuff that I'm doing at the minute is like the kind of... The blocks that I broke it down to, I approached my therapist over trauma in competition and sport. So it's like, why can't I enjoy my job anymore? Why? Because, like I said, Steve from Dover or whatever his name is. It's only dickheads in Dover. Yeah, I love.

35:42But giving me shit to take away. I'm so fearful of losing, I don't even want to compete. And last year I'd done so much work, like November, December, January, to just rid that of myself. and then I went into that fight. My career was make or break in that moment and I was fucking stone cold feeling like, I found me, I know who the fuck I am. I know where my feet have taken me. I know what fucking fires I've come through to be where I am and no one's taken it away from me anymore. I used to fight for my mum, my fiancé, Liverpool, everyone who hasn't fucking made it and now this time I'm fighting for myself.

36:21Like, I want to feel good about them moments it's about me I put myself through that much shit and I have to come that much that I'm doing it for me and when I won oh mate it was the like it wasn't that much elation I just felt like you were calm I watched those interviews and you are calm I was just that's the way I was at do you know what I mean and I was just so happy and I was just like fuck the lot of you like I know it wasn't about that's for you but I just thought no fuck you as you give me that much shit this is for me and then when I got back my therapist went right we're getting into it and I went can I not just have this like do I have to go back into pain can I just enjoy it yeah and he's like no like we're getting into it and like but the more that you heal and I can enjoy the rest of my life do you know like and I've become so much aware of my negative and toxic traits as a person also having ADHD like the rejection from the abandonment and trauma is so magnetised by also having ADHD.

37:29Like your rejection sensitivity is on a whole fucking different scales, but you throw a whole lifetime of trauma into that. And then you throw being a celebrity in or being noticed everywhere. And then everyone's opinions on the rejection. I was like, wow, I've really got to do some work there. Do you know what I mean? So I was really trying to work through that stuff. which is also by the way probably like a life's work for all of us like I think we assume oh and then maybe in like six months I'll be fixed and everything will be great but you realize the more you do it you just got to keep digging and picking up layers yeah and I like through all the like I said to my mum I'll do the therapy after fighting I'm not un-earth in Pandora's box because what if my why was to get out of where I'm from to make it for those.

38:21So am I going to now change that in myself, am I going to be a more different fighter? But then when I've just looked at that performance, it wasn't edgy, it wasn't manic, it was calm, it was cool. And I was like, I can see I've done the work there. I don't fear failure. I'm at peace with myself. We're cool. So I was like, right, I'm getting fucking into this. How interesting though, Because I think many people will resonate with that, that we do fear, oh, but if I start a therapy, then maybe that will change who I am and how I operate and the bits I like about myself. I think we question all of it because we know that the only guarantee is there will be change.

38:59Something will shift. If you start digging around in the past, if you start looking at yourself, something will shift. That's terrifying. That is terrifying. But you've just explained and proved that it's for the better. And actually, maybe unexpected, did you imagine that you could fight in that way, with that clarity and that calm? No, no. Because I think, same as you, we're always looking for the next thing. We're never satisfied. So even in that moment, even in that second win, I come out and I believe that I'm going to fucking destroy everyone in this division, blah, blah, blah. Two weeks later, get home, start doing the work, and I'm like, oh, my God, should I even be a fighter?

39:38Am I even good enough? And I'm like, right, I've got to fuck that off. but how? because I think this is a block for everyone like we go oh but I shouldn't and people might think this and we're frozen from that how do you fuck that right off? right fuck it right off in Molly McCann's way right and I am now literally putting this into practice within my personal life do you remember the game Pong? you definitely will Pong? right tell me again where you've got the two things there and you what was your ping? oh yeah yeah yeah ping and like you can't let the ball hit there otherwise my brain is got a line here and here's the negative and here's the positive and I am trying to feed myself so do my affirmations like recently I've been praying to the higher power and to God every fucking day just like I'm at the bit in the therapy at the minute where I've been triggered and I am really really trying to work my way through these what's my coping mechanism for being triggered?

40:42Instead of self-sabotage and fucking whatever, I'm not going to say what this thing is, but I've got this whole thing which is triggering me. It's not going anywhere. How do I be better with dealing with this? Because the trigger's not the other person's fault. It's mine. So I've got to deal with it and I've got to stop putting it on that person. So I'm like, right, how do I do that? And I was doing it the same in fighting. I was letting the outside, I was letting everyone else and my own doubt telling me that I'm not good enough. And then in that last fight, all that work that I'd been doing, the second it would come in, I was just visualising a line here.

41:19And the second it creeped in, I'd just make it bounce off. And that's probably not going to work for no one else. Something visual is key. It was the visualisation for me. And I'd have an old mind coach and he said, put your fucking armour on. imagine like you're like the gladiator you're maximus and you're putting that fucking plate that steel on your plate and when people are saying this shit just let it go just let it bounce in and bounce out and I was like right and I think self-worth has got a lot to be said so when I've give too much and I'm too empty my self-worth starts to deteriorate and I've give too much to everyone else that there's nothing left within me and that's when this doubt starts creeping in towards the end of a fight and as I hit fight week Like, I've had that much solitude and I've been on my own for that long and people are at work all day.

42:13So say I train in the morning, I have an afternoon to myself and then I have to train late at night. That bit of time I have to myself, I have to sit there with this consistently. It's like being in solitary confinement and you're with your demons every fucking day. And that whole last fight camp, I just fuck every time it comes. Fuck off, fuck off, fuck off, fuck off. And I'm sorry that's the language, but that's what... No, it needs to be that strong and vehement. It's not like, please go away. It's like, just fuck right off. But like I was saying, at the minute, I feel like I'm at the mercy.

42:45I'm at God's mercy and I'm just sat there and I'm like, I'm proper. I'm there with like, if it's like frequency, if it's physics, if it's God, if it's the universe, whatever it is, I'm trying to put myself on that frequency to be centred, to be natured, to be natured and to just be calm. but it's a lot easier said than done because the work that I'm doing on myself at the minute, it's like there's some breakthroughs thing that you have and you're like, oh, I didn't really feel much there. Like, I haven't had this big anything, do you know what I mean? Like, I had a really big breakthrough actually a couple of months ago and my fiancée Ellis has walked in and I was like, I'm so angry, I'm so angry.

43:29Like, I just put the phone down to the therapist and I was like, I am fucking raging. And I'd never been angry before, and it was to do with me. I've always forgiven my parents and family for, I'm not even saying dark stuff that happened, just like I understand the times, I understand where you was at, what your childhood was at. Maybe too empathetic and too forgiving, but what's the hate going to do for me? I'm going to hold on to what? Like, I've never done it, I've just fucked it off. And then ten minutes later, I've just started shaking. And I'm like, oh, my God. And my body just started processing.

44:07And I must have cried for a couple of hours. And Alice has had to, like, hold me. And there's nothing she could say or do. And I had to just let this trauma out. And then a couple of weeks ago, my mum came to Liverpool and I just kind of had this conversation with her, said, you always kind of know I've never held anything against you. I've never held anything against my dad. Like, I don't hold stuff against them. But it was in there physically Yeah And I said I've never said this to you before But I am angry And maybe I haven't realised I've been resentful towards you And maybe that's why we both had And I'm sorry Like I'm sorry I've been hard work growing up too And I'm sorry I've made Your journey and getting clean Maybe harder sometimes And my mum's protected me from the truth to look after me.

45:02And I didn't know. And when she's guarded me from things, I obviously didn't know till I was older, so I'd be like, why the fuck is she doing that? Why is she doing that? And it's only when I'm older I've seen. She said, it's not my job to be in me, mate. It's my job to look after you and to make sure you're the best person you can be and as painful for her as that's been. She's made me, like, I'm proud of myself every day. Do you know what I mean? and I just said to her, I know you don't need to hear this and I know it doesn't matter, but I forgive you and I still wouldn't change one day in our life.

45:41Not one fucking footstep would I change. I said, you look at people sometimes and want us to be like them. Like, you wish that our relationship was easier or this, that and the other said. and it's hard that I speak about this and I promised that I wouldn't always delve into I wouldn't speak about our trauma or this, that and the other anymore I don't speak about it in a negative light but I just said I won't keep bringing it up anymore but it's very valid today but I just said we walk into rooms and people hear our story and it can change people's lives I've been into rooms and watched you share and it's changed my life, do you know what I mean?

46:25and I didn't think that's where you are or that's how you think or that's how you operate because you wouldn't tell me stuff like that because I'm your daughter and our relationship's different. I said, but I'm so proud of you. I'd do anything to be like you. And I also set my boundaries in that moment, which I'd never done. I said, you speak to me like I'm 13. I said, I am your little girl. I said, but I'm a woman too. and I don't appreciate when you undermine me in this way or you do this or you do that. And I know it's coming from a loving place, but it has to stop. And I said, I just said some other stuff on her healing that she needs to work on.

47:06And I think I hadn't have known that if I hadn't have done the therapy. And I see bits in here that I'm like, you could still do some work. She's like, you can fuck off. Who are you talking to? This is so interesting because I think there will be, again, There'll be people listening to this who would be like, I could never have that chat with my mum, my dad, whatever. I couldn't, I'm fear to free. I think many people just think there's no way because either there's fear or you know that it would go down like a sack of shit. Is your mum able to receive that information and you can talk it out? Like, it sounds like a really healthy dynamic between you now.

47:43In certain circumstances, and I believe I'm the same, I believe most people are the same, If you present something, I can't approach something like I'm about to critique her because how she survived in this world is by fucking surviving. By hook or by crook, she's had to survive. So what I've realised is I'm so similar to her that I need the approach to be different. So I have to make her feel secure before I would relay information. And this could go into every relationship in my life. and now I just have to give it in a different way. And she really took that so well. Because it's probably like healed here.

48:27And I said, you don't have to carry this. I'm cool in who I am. I am cool. Do you know what I mean? You've raised a child who stands for this, this and this, won't let her integrity be rocked, won't sell out for money. You've raised such a good person. Like, that's your bag. You've won there. Do you know what I mean? And all the hard times is what makes for the good times. Do you know what I mean? It's also brilliant to talk about anger. And I heard this so recently. One theory being if we suppress feelings of anger because we think, I can't be, that's not what a good person would do. Or whatever reason we come up with in our head or I've got no right to be angry or whatever.

49:15That turns into anxiety. And I'd never made that equation before. And I've had times of immense anxiety where I've gone, I don't even understand it. I don't know why my heart's racing. I don't know why my body feels all tense. What is this? And learning that has enabled me to go, oh my God, am I actually a bit angry? I'm just not letting myself go there. And that doesn't mean that you then have to go, this, that, blah, blah, blah. But if you acknowledge it, you can do something about it. you can work out ways to healthily release it. I'm still learning all this stuff as I go as well. But I found that fascinating.

49:49And I think especially as women, we are sort of subliminally told, don't be angry or certainly don't show your anger. That's not what a good girl does. A good girl, they stay in line, blah, blah, blah, blah. And many of us are going, but I am fucking angry and I've got all this stuff that I need to work out. And when we don't, it comes out as anxiety. And I just found that fascinating. What I'm interested in, I guess, in the context of anger with you is wherever the anger is coming from, it doesn't even have to be childhood. It could have been something that happened yesterday. When you go in to a fight situation and now knowing that you can fight in a way where there's clarity and calm, how are you channeling that anger?

50:30because it's not coming out as this ferocious, wild, untamed energy. It's controlled. It's discipline. It's focus. How do you get that balance? I think it's going to be like horses for courses. I think because I'm fighting the upper echelon girls and the IQ is high, like there is fighting IQ. It is a chess game. We do set traps for each other. for a whole round I could chop the leg, chop the leg chop the leg, see there tell how they're going there, how they're going there then the next round, bump head kick, like, but there also needs to be, there's going to be times when I know I'm going to have to let that molly out, if I come up against someone who's bigger than me, stronger than me maybe more technical all rounds in different areas than what I am how do I win?

51:24I interrupt your rhythm I fuck your shit up and I bully you and that's when that anger, composed aggression will have to come out that last fight I wasn't aggressive it was measured pressure but then there's going to be moments when I might have to just dip my toe into that and then come back to that but now I can take it there there's rounds in sparring in the gym where we emulate a fight situation and if it's too much of this and not enough of that, I lose the round. And vice versa, if I'm too calm and I'm waiting too much, the fights I've lost is the ones I've put on the back foot and I'm countering.

52:06So I know I have to be the aggressor. I know I have to be the bully, but it's just about being calm with it. How do you bridge the gap of that though? Because I've heard you talk in post-fight interviews where you are genuinely concerned and empathetic towards the person that you've just been fighting. Because, you know, when you lose the spiral, you put your whole life into this. Some people are fighting to stay alive. Like Forte Gayle from the Vervellas in the UFC. Do you know what I mean? Like someone who has an offer, and I have had an offer, and we're fighting for this. And when we lose, you can ask Ellis, then 14 months when I lost them two back to back.

52:44Yeah, horrible. So I only now know, right, I really need to just think about how I handle myself with grace there because I've had the moments of when I've won, never thought I was going to get that moment in my life. Oh my God, they was my celebrations. Now it's a bit more humility and a bit more humbleness and more grace for what my opponent's gone through also. Like I broke that girl's arm, had 10 seconds to myself and went over and kissed on the head and held a hand. Do you know what I mean? Made sure to see her in the hotel, made sure to text her the next day to see if she's okay. That's not always going to happen.

53:20But sometimes when you fight certain people and you know how much they respect you and you respect them, then you can have that there. It's an interesting switch because you are going from I will destroy you to, oh shit, I hope you're all right. It's really hard at home. The closer I get to a fight, the more detached I become from Everton and the more anything could send a fighter over the edge. And some of us handle it better than others. And when the pressure's higher for the fight, sometimes... Hi, this is Nox from the Popcast with Nox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors.

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55:31It's really, really hard to deal with, do you know what I mean? People around us just literally have to let it go over their head because they know in a sound frame of mind we're not being personal. And also understand I'm a fucking fighter and I have got to get myself ready for war. And, like, I'm quite lucky. Like, I think it was one of my fights. I was really needy on the day of the fight. And Ellis went... I was like, can you stay for a bit longer? No, I'm going. I was like, why? You need to fucking get ready. because there'd be some fights I'd go, don't speak to me, just come in, give me a hug.

56:08A fighter has to take themselves to that solitude and be scared in them moments because it's that fear that keeps you sharp. When you don't have that fear, your responses are slower. You're not primal. You're not going hunter-gatherer modes. But surely that can tip as well into you're not sleeping the night before because you're scared or you can't eat enough because you're scared. What's the sweet spot there? You just find it. I think when you do the weight cuffing, you've done 12 weeks a diet, you're fucking starving. Come that Friday, when you're allowed... The fight is to make weight. When I walk to the cage, I am fucking free.

56:43My shackles are off. There's been a few times I go to my manager, take them off, lad, and he just pretends to take my shackles off, and I'm like... I get to go and be, because that cage, I'm fluid, I am expression. That is my purest form. That is how Molly McCann knows how to express herself, entertain the crowd do shit that people can't do like some of the wins I've done and the ways that I've done them people don't do this, men don't do this do you know what I mean? and it's just like I'm going to perform and that's when I feel at home obviously when it's going well and then I love it sometimes when it's going so fucking hard it's just out of grip it's just out of my grasp and I can come back and I can fight back and I can get it I'd lost two fights back to back like not these ones.

57:32And I had a fight. It was my last fight on my contract. I was told, right, if you lose it, you're done. I was fighting a girl. It was 5 '8", 10-inch reach on me, some Korean girl. And the third punch of through, I broke my hand. And two minutes later, she's headbutted me and, like, I've hit the floor, I'm out. And I've, like, I've managed to get myself to the side of the cage. And I had this moment in my brain, you've just lost your last two fights. This is number three. Call it a day, Molly. you've had like this is my inner monologue whilst getting elbows in the head whilst trying to like fight for survival and then in my head on the other side fucking give up don't give up don't give up fucking come on who are you who are you and then I was just like ah and then like I just I don't know like something come through me and I was like not today I've got this mantra that I say as I'm walking to the cage and it's like I'm too fast I'm too strong I'm too fucking good anyone's life I touch I change I'm due or lost but not today not a fucking day and that's what I say as I'm walking out and that's what was oh I like that not a fucking day thing I need to write my own manifesto like that as I'm walking to the studio with my nerdy notebook yeah I've got that new Vex King journal I love Vex he's lovely yeah so that's that's what I put in that's in my manifesto it is so phenomenal I feel like we're we're catching you today just before you head into this deep mindset of getting in the zone physically and mentally I'm imagining you're not going to be doing much press after this moment because you're in it now.

59:02Nothing. Like, certain people, and there's certain things that I know I must do. Like, this is one of them. Like, the high performance was one of them. I love Jake. There's certain little things that, you know, combat athletes don't diversify. They kind of stay in their own lane and that's what they do. But I just think I'm so much more than that. And I just think, like, now's the time to show. but I'm also very much aware of, like, the call with the therapist today is I've done so much work and since the last breakthrough, I'm still... You're in it. I'm in it. And, like, Ellis, I'd say six weeks now, I've been, like, tearful most days.

59:46And she said to me, we're going to have to harden you back up, aren't we? Like, two days ago. I went, what do you mean? She's like, we can't do this again because I had one fight where I was like this and then I lost. and I could have won. I literally could have won and if I hadn't lost, I hadn't have looked at myself in this way. So I have to say that was my blessing to drop the weight category, to work on myself, to get the positivity down the line. The story has now come full circle and I'm loved again by the people. People are like, you really have got the bollocks. You're not just a flash in the pan.

1:00:21You've got it, do you know what I mean? But I know, So, like, I do... Like, the conversation today is, like, I can't do any more deep work. Like, if... Yeah. Like, you can do this work, but for, like, positive visualisation. Do you know what I mean? So, like, every two weeks, I'm probably going to sit there with them and we're going to get my opponent, get all of their attributes up, get mine, where do they match? Like, if we rank them out of five or out of ten, see where she's beating me, see where I'm beating her, That's what we do at the beginning of camp. Now, what can we do to implement you so that you don't have this negative self-talk anymore in them moments?

1:01:04Let's apply that. Do you know what I mean? I will incorporate that into my training. I'll incorporate that into my self-work or my self-care. And then come the end of the camp, we do one more visualisation and all of that. And it's like, right, look, this is where we are. You've done it. And then I think a lot of the time, I'm like, when I actually look at how much I trained for that last fight, I was in like four different countries in two months or ten weeks. I caught, say, from 64 kilos to 52. So we're going on like two and a half stone. And on the outside, I must have made it look like life fucking work.

1:01:45But because I knew the task I had, and through doing the therapy thing, I just went, it too shall pass. I'm not going to sit in this moment forever. But my external factors, I can't control right now. So I can't keep reacting to them. I can't control that my coaches are going to be here because there's 18 other fighters fighting all around the world. So my routine that I'm rigid and I need to stick to, I need to just let go. I am going to train, but it's not going to look like this. I am going to go back to what made me fucking great. I'm going to go back to training more like that, being more primal.

1:02:20stop giving me too much instruction stop giving me too much direction if i'm going out if i lose i'm going out in my oh i want to fucking go out do you know what i mean and and i just realized like i can't control everything i mean maybe when i was in the grip of it i was like i was holding the fucking string i was holding the rope so tight i was getting roping when i should have just let go so hard though isn't it it's such a fine line because because you don't know what's going to When you love something, you want it to go a certain way and you do tighten your grasp. And that can be said for anything career wise or in your personal life that you go, no, but I want to take absolute control over this.

1:02:59But often that's the thing that then ends up restricting us. It's a really hard thing to let go. But it seems like you've got a bloody good solid plan ahead of you. You're in a healthy relationship, which seems to be a beautiful balance for everything, the craziness around your work. and you're in this mindset where you're on the right path. You know what you're doing. It's exciting. It is. I think I just need to get, like, just this last little bit, like, because I remember Jake said, like, do you think if your opponent watched this, like, would they see this as weakness? I was like, no, because no one's got the bollocks to stand here and be their honest, true self, do you know what I mean?

1:03:37They're like, I don't see very many at all be this, like, honest in what I do, do you know what I mean? and I don't know if that's because it leaves them too susceptible. Like, I think the only other person I've heard be as consistently raw and honest as, like, Tyson Fury in the fight game, like, I know, like, obviously my teammates, my stablemate, Paddy's very vocal about men's mental health and very vocal about, like, having a chat with your mate and this, that and the other. But I don't hear people talk about their pain and their honesty as much, do you know what I mean? and I just think, it's like I feel like I'm having my last cheer.

1:04:14Do you know what I mean? Like I'm giving you my last bit before and now I need to go and shut down and do all that, yeah. Well, look, myself and the whole Happy Place team just giving you all the good vibes for this period of training. Send me all the crystals, all the frequencies. All the frequencies for this intense bit of training you've got and for your fight in the summer. And it's just been so brilliant talking to you today and thank you so much for being raw, for being honest and for sharing not only your story, but for some really amazing coping strategies that I think we can all go away and have a proper good think about.

1:04:46Thank you so much, Molly. And also thank you because you've broke the mould, do you know what I mean? You've gone out in your own lane. You've absolutely fucked off a career that you could have maybe been more financially stable with. I don't know, like in the public eye and all that stuff. And you've just gone, actually, my health matters more, me happiness matters more and showing people that it can be done so for people like you I think you give inspiration to a lot of people so thanks mate that means a lot really does thanks Molly it's okay love oh Molly do you know what that chat was so beautiful because I think it taught all of us about was definitely resilience and strength you know mentally and physically but also about vulnerability I thought Molly was just exceptional in how she talked about her childhood and actually the real-time stuff she's working through in therapy.

1:05:41That's not easy. She's in therapy at the moment, same as me, and it can be really difficult, tricky, and like a delicate thing to dive into those subjects when you're still figuring them out yourself. So I'm so grateful for that conversation. I'd love to know if you've used movement or combat sport in particular to manage your own mental health, or maybe you've noticed an increase in confidence since you started. Come and chat to us on Instagram. We're at Happy Place Official. The other place to go on Instagram is Happy Place Book Club. Each month we read a book together, chat about it online and hear from the authors on book club episodes of Happy Place 2.

1:06:20June's novel is mine. I hope that's OK and not too narcissistic. I'm really excited and if I dare say proud of this one. It's called Scripted and is all about Jade Shaw, who is someone that is sort of drowning amongst family drama. She's got some big characters in her life and she hasn't quite found her own confidence and voice yet. So ends up saying yes a lot when she means no, ends up getting herself into situations that she doesn't really feel comfortable with because she really struggles with setting boundaries essentially. So Jade finds a script outside her flat and this script contains a scene from her life that is yet to happen, yet seems utterly familiar of the dynamic that she has with her boyfriend.

1:07:11It freaks her out. She doesn't know what to do. She then goes on a really wonderful journey, finding more scripts and finding her voice. I really hope that you enjoy it. I'm shitting myself about putting it out there in the best possible way. I think being scared of these things is a good thing. so we are going to be reading that book together and I really, really hope that you enjoy it and that you get something from it I'm back here next week but in the meantime it's a huge thank you to Molly to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios and to you keep that fighting spirit

1:08:23We'll be right back.

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