Nick Grimshaw

0:00Hello and a very warm welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton today live from the Happy Place Festival in Tatton Park I'm chatting to Nick Grimshaw. when I was writing the book, like I couldn't write it. Like I couldn't sit down and focus. And I was like, surely this is the easy bit because I'm just writing about what's happened. And it was like spiraling again, being like, how did I do that, go from olden to doing the breakfast show? And now I can't sit in my kitchen and write it. It's something that it was when I left Radio 1, I was really trying to discover and explore. Like, is that it?

0:37Do you have like one dream? Do you have like one ambition in your life or can you keep evolving and changing and setting new goals, big or small, and achieving them? Nick was on Radio 1 for 14 years. He'd always, since he was a kid, wanted to present the Radio 1 breakfast show. It's a coveted spot and he did it hugely successfully. He achieved his dream. But in 2021, he made the decision to leave the station, prompting him to rethink what his life looks like. Part of that process was reflecting on it all in his autobiography, Soft Lad, which I have to say, just like this conversation, is both laugh out loud funny and incredibly thought provoking.

1:18As I said, we had this chat with all of you gorgeous lot at the Happy Place Festival just last week. Oh, my God, the sun was blazing. It was dreamy. I'm so grateful for that sunshine. And I think this was the most full the talk tent got all week. end. Everyone was sort of bursting out the sides of the tent onto the grass, sat on bean bags and deck chairs to listen in. It was amazing. So thank you so much for being there. And if this is the first time you're hearing this chat, I hope you really enjoy it.

1:51If you're a smoker or vaper ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zinn Nicotine Pouches, you'll discover many good reasons. Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand. Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zinn. Check out Zinn.com slash find to find Zinn at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

2:24Okay, here it is. This is the show.

2:47Hi, everyone. It was further away than I thought. Sorry. It takes forever to get on the stage. I wasn't doing a dramatic entrance. No, no. I've had so many awkward moments on this stage. It's far, isn't it? I can't tell you. It's a long way. But we're glad you made it. Well done. Thank you. And thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. I mean, you are obviously from up north. I am. And you had said to your family, do pop along. They declined. Yeah, they did decline. My mum was like, oh, it's 50 minutes. So they're the other side of Manchester. And it's United Arsenal. So that ruled out everyone in my family, unfortunately.

3:25Don't any football fans start walking out to try and find a telly? You're locked in now. No, you're here now. You're here now. I don't want everyone to be like, oh my God, it is. Yeah, no, exactly. See ya. We obviously are really used to seeing you at music festivals and loving gigs, but I have a feeling, or I hope, that the Happy Place Festival is a bit of you, because you actually love wellness. Yeah. You love it. I do, and it's only something I've only recently got into over the past couple of years, and some of it drives my boyfriend mad. Like, he's not on board wellness. No, no. At all. Or even like a glass of water.

4:03Right. Like, he's not into it. And neither were my family. Like, my mum and my dad would be like, my dad was always like, you're mad for water. Yeah, my parents were like that. Why do you drink that? And I was like, just to stay alive. Just to, yeah, generally fill myself up with water. Yeah, like they wouldn't do it. But I do do wellness. Yeah. So I do it in many forms. I love exercise, which is something that I never thought that I would like. I didn't start doing until I was about 31, genuinely. Like, never did it at school, never did it when I was younger. And now I have to do it. Like what?

4:39I do weightlifting. Do you? Yeah. Don't laugh. I do weightlifting and in quite a, you know, serious weightlifting gym. I can imagine it's very serious. I don't doubt that. Yeah. Although Henry Holland does go there, so not that serious. Okay. It's quite a chic weightlifting gym. Yeah, it's quite a chic one. So I do weightlifting. I just started yoga. I always used to do yoga when I lived in my flat in North London because I had a friend who is a yoga teacher on the same street. Heaven. So I'd always go over to hers and do yoga. And it's when I was doing breakfast. So I was always tired and I'd always fall asleep on a kitchen floor.

5:22And she'd just leave me at the end. I've seen a lot of people asleep at the festival today. just having a really lovely, yeah, nodding, lovely little kip on your yoga mat. Love a little nap. That shows that you've done it well because you've really surrendered. So relaxed, yeah. I get into it. And then meditation is something that I never did until lockdown. And, you know, we were like, what can I do so I don't lose it? I was like, everything. Everything. So I did a meditation course with your friend of mine, Rob DeBank. Love Rob. And Rob did like an online course where he said you can come on get on zoom it'll be three days we do every morning and every night and i'll teach you how to meditate so i logged on and then there's other people on it so i thought it was just gonna be me and rob no you're not that special but there's like all people on it yeah 20 people so i was a bit like oh god it because it's quite a you know i thought it was gonna be quite a private matter.

6:20No. But it wasn't in the lesson. But I was, I loved it. Like my first experience of meditating with Rob was like mad trippy and I got really into it. He's so good at what he does. He was at our Chiswick Happy Place Festival. Grimmy and I know him because he was at Radio 1 for years. An amazing DJ but has done so much brilliant work in the meditation space. He does Yoga Nidra. He's on our Happy Place app. And he also runs his own festival, Bestival, Camp Bestival, which is incredible. He's a wonderful man. Yeah, we love Rob DeBank. There's a section in your book which we've carefully placed for everyone to see here, Nick.

6:57Soflad, which I loved reading. You've got a chapter called Wellness When Unwell. And I really was fascinated by that because I think sometimes we talk about wellness in a way where it's like, oh, it's a nice little thing to do on the side. But actually, I think the thing that we've got in common with wellness is that we've really needed it. There have been times when there hasn't been another option. You've needed to make a change. And in that chapter and throughout the book, you talk about a sense of self-loathing that you can easily slip into. We all can. It's something that we all, you know, it's a terrible negative spa we can all get into.

7:32What was the point when you thought, I'm bored of this, I can't do this self-loathing anymore, I need to make a change? Maybe once I got into my 30s, I think my 20s. And I think actually when I was a teenager, and I don't know if it was like a geographical thing, or like a time, maybe it was an 80s thing or a 90s thing. But I was never, I never had the inkling that I had to think about myself or how I felt, and whether or not something was good for me or bad for me, or if, you know, I should sit and think about how I feel or maybe drink some water. Like, that never entered my mind. And then I think when I went into my 20s, I just ran into my 20s with that same mentality of just not really thinking about myself or about my self-care or about any sort of wellness.

8:24And then when you get into your 30s and you start growing up and you start realising what's important, and I think it was probably, like, yeah, early 30s where I was like, right, maybe I should stay in. and maybe I should like spend my time trying to feel better rather than like trying to seek something at a party that in turn is going to make me feel worse yeah better if I like stayed in I got robbed a bank on the phone correct I think I can't remember exactly when it was but it's something once I saw like a glimmer of feeling better through doing different various routes of wellness that it just became invaluable and it became essential and something that I really prioritise now and put so much time and effort into?

9:09I guess there's two parts to it always. There's the bit where we can have a little matcha latte and we can do a bit of yoga and all the things that we know will probably help us feel a bit more in balance and slow the hell down because we're all moving so quickly. Then there's the other bit and it's perhaps harder to focus on in a festival setting. I think we've certainly tried. It's certainly terrifying to focus on internally or on your own. And that is the bit where you've got to like yourself, where you've got to forgive yourself, where you've got to make peace with bits of yourself that you're not so happy about.

9:46Where are you at with that? I think that's like a constant process because I think there is, you're right, the wellness of like a turmeric latte. But then there's also like therapy. Yeah. So like not as fun. as a latte for Instagram. But much more nourishing. Yes. You know, like, so, you know, definitely more nourishing, but just, like, harder. And I don't know, like, facing up to yourself and figuring out who you are. I don't think I ever really did until I got into my 30s. And then I was like, wait, I've been carrying, like, shame and, like, gay guilt and, like, sort of not really liking myself when I was a teenager and I've never dealt with it.

10:31So you can't get that from a turmeric latte. Sadly. I have to go to therapy and talk it out. And I think it's just about being kind to yourself. I was just chatting to Jono. Jono Lancaster. Anyone watch Jono Lancaster's chat? We love Jono. They're just talking to me about self-love. And growing up in Oldham, I couldn't be like, I want to love myself. Like, you. You should love yourself. especially. So I don't know, it was quite a hard thing for me to get my head around. And some days I'm really into it. And some days I think it's really hard. And it aches me out of it. And I think it's like a constant journey where you've got to get that balance of being kind to yourself in whichever way that is, you know, speaking to yourself nice or getting sleep and rest and not, you know, looking for external validation from somewhere which is not really important so I think it's quite an ongoing it's like a practice you know I mean I don't think you're ever like I'm done no no I'm happy inside I think it's like a constant thing I think especially with liking yourself yeah it's it's all day every day forever and there'll be periods where we do find it easier and times especially I don't think it's like any worse for us but I think especially in our job where sometimes the feedback can be negative which I think anyone in the public eye has experienced on a level, if you're feeling pretty good and you've got that equilibrium and you're like, I'm actually quite liking myself at the moment, or I've made, there's a certain element of peace, it can only take one crappy Instagram comment to just extinguish that in an instant.

12:07And it is quite hard to then pick yourself back up and do all the work again, like start believing that, you know, you're all right as you are. It's tough. it is and i i can really spiral really quickly like i could have one bad day at work where i don't think i've done my job good or i've been and filmed something and i was like oh it was rubbish that and then i'll like spiral for a week being like i should withdraw from life like and it's serious i really go hard on myself and then i'll hear a week later from the person that I work with being like, that was the best day at work I've ever seen you.

12:44And I'm like, really? Because I've hated myself for seven days. So yeah, you just got to like keep reminding yourself and keep on top of it. Like I said, I think it's like a daily practice to not, and also to cut out the things that make you spiral. You know, like I can't watch anything like too dark or like, I can't do it. No, no, I don't watch, I watch documentaries, funny stuff. David Attenborough. David Attenborough. I can't handle, but yours is very specifically rooted in a childhood experience. Yeah. So tell us about Edward Scissorhands. Yeah, so I got really traumatized by Edward Scissorhands.

13:21And yeah, I basically was like the youngest in my family. So I had an older brother and older sister who were quite a bit older than me, like 11 and 13 years older than me. And I idolized them and loved them. And then so all my cousins were, you know, 12, 15 years older than me. and I loved my cousin Lisa and still do, I've not gone on. Loved. Loved. Until this day. And our Lisa took me to see, and she was fab Lisa because she used to wear like leather jackets and like dyed her hair black and she had like posters of all like heavy metal bands. Like it was quite, I imagine, quite a bedroom for you that.

13:59Yeah, I would have loved that. You would have loved that. I would have loved that sadly like in my 20s, not my teeth. That's the worrying thing. Yeah. And she had like, she was cool. Like, I thought she was really, really cool. And she'd, like, go to, like, Rock World. And, like, she took me one night to see Edward Scissorands. And I was really excited. And it just, it terrified me. Like, absolutely hated his face so much with a passion. And I was, like, traumatised by it. And I remember watching the film and leaving with Lisa. And because she had a leather jacket on and, like, black dyed hair, I was a bit like...

14:37she's a bit Edward Scissorhands bit Edward and I went home and I couldn't sleep and I was freaked out by it and my mum and dad were like oh it's a kids film don't worry about it 90s parenting you'll be like it's alright we're having a party get upstairs and they were like oh there's nothing it's fine it was a kids film and I think it was a PG maybe or like PG's was so different to PG's today a PG was a loose I watched some stuff with my kids and halfway through gone nope it's not appropriate Yep. What's it? Ace Ventura. Don't watch that, have you kids? Really? Oh, my God. In my head, innocent, sweet little...

15:11The pet detective. Yes. So rude and inappropriate at times. I was like, oh, my God. I'm so sorry, kids, but we're halting it here. I'm not watching this. No, we're not. Let's put Zootropolis right back on. Get that back on. Yes. Well, I needed Zootropolis. You did. I watched Edward Scissorhands, and he just creeped me out. I thought I quite liked being around adults and I loved watching films and watching stuff from mum and dad and I think I'd only experienced, there was like seven, just like lovely things, like joy and like my mum's friend Carmel's quite funny and nice and then Edward Scissorhands because he was in quite a suburban setting where I grew up in Oldham, it looked like my street and then I couldn't really read him.

15:56you know he was a bit like like couldn't really it was a bit like a spider like you know you don't know what way they're gonna go yeah like a bit like it icked me out and it was it wasn't like the story it was just his face and i got so traumatized it went on for weeks into adulthood months and then years like years of not being able to sleep and even when i was doing like nighttime radio i had to sort out when i was like 27 because it was when i started doing the breakfast show and i was like i can't be scared of edward scissorhands oh bedward scissorhands yeah because it's been 20 years and um i just thought that i was like under attack constantly and it came from being scared in my bed at seven till nine where i was like you know sweating and traumatized and like any noise i like couldn't sleep so i was like stressed out for two years i'm and my dad were like oh that's where soft lad came from because my dad was like a bloody soft lad it's only bloody johnny depp and i hated it and i just like never really dealt with it and then i was like wait i'm scared of everything yeah and everyone so i need to figure that out but you did that by re-watching it yeah so i watched it in lockdown and i'd never been able to watch it and i watched it one day in lockdown and i was like right it was on it was on like channel four christmas time yeah nice and festive like four o 'clock by the way not a kid's film no And I put it on and I actually found it really heartwarming and kind of life affirming in the story, in the film and how I connected to Edward Scissorhands, the character, because he was someone that when I was growing up through my preteen and teenage years, I felt very out of sorts in a suburban setting where it was all heterosexual families like mum and dad and two kids.

17:52and I knew probably from like nine or ten that that was never going to be me and that I knew that I was gay and come into terms with it and so I don't know if I the fear of Edward actually stemmed from me being like the odd one out in a community I don't know if it did but when I watched it as an adult I was like oh hang on a second Edward is the one that everyone's like he's a bit weird in this community and that's how I felt as a teenager I felt like the odd one out I felt um strange I didn't feel you know in the same world as everyone that was around me and my family and my friends at school and everyone in my suburban street and I sort of realized that when I watched it recently and I had that connection for him so I sort of made peace with him and realized that the Edwards were all the people that I've like connected to like all my friends are a bit Edward-y.

18:47And like, you know, he's just, he's not, not wrong with him, he just likes a leather catsuit. You know? Nothing wrong with that. Let's not be judgmental. No, he can wear a leather catsuit. If a man wants to wear foundation, eight shades too light for him. Exactly. And an all-in-one PVC suit. With some black contact lenses. With some black contact lenses and scissors for hands. Absolutely fine. Let's let him live. Let's let him live. Yeah. But it is really nice that you had that sort of revelation. And also, but I wonder, can you, Because I really, really don't like watching anything remotely scary or triggering.

19:20I'm like a sponge, so I take on everything. And I either walk away thinking I'm the person who I've just watched, I start acting like that. So if I watch something really angry, I'm a bit aggressive and angry. Or if it's something scary or whatever, there's no way I'm sleeping. So I just don't watch any of it. And I'm really niche about my viewing. Have you expanded your viewing or are you still quite picky? I am quite picky. I've got to be in the right frame of mind. so I do get anxiety bouts from time to time where I'm like really highly strung for a few weeks and then when it's that time that's the David Attenborough yeah that is like something really nice and relaxing um so then I can't watch anything like too spooky and like Luther no no no love love you Idris but no no can't ever do that um I went to my therapist once and was But I, you know, I said that I said that I am a sponge and I soak it up.

20:15And I don't know if it's like a good thing or a bad thing, because I can really feel if like Mish wakes up and he's in an eggy mood and he's stressed out about work or on a stressful work call. Then I'm really stressed about work call that I don't even know what it's about. Yeah. So then all day I'm like, well, why am I bothered? I know. And I'm so bad. And she, like, taught me to sort of, like, be in myself and to sit in myself and do breath work and, like, get out of here and, like, get a bit more in here. So that's definitely helped. Yeah. Saying that, also, she said, I said, and when I watch something, it makes me scared and it makes me really anxious.

20:53And she was like, don't watch it then. And I was like, oh, yeah. Glad I just paid you, yeah, here's 50 quid. Thank you for that. Great tip. Oh, brilliant. But on the way here, actually, I've just got into, because I couldn't watch it when it came out nine years ago, I don't know if you've heard of this little show, it's called Narcos. Right. I thought, let me give that a go. Haven't seen it, too scary. Yeah, too scary. Too scary. Well, I've managed to watch episodes one to seven. Fine. You were right. I watched episode eight on the train, a little bit too much. Right. Yeah, let's turn it off. So let's watch some David Attenborough, something about a novel, just to, like, get the balance back.

21:29Yeah. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine.

22:03Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

22:10Where is your anxiety at today? Because it's something again that is threaded to the burn. Literally today. Could be today, but just generally around now. Because it's something that has obviously, you know, you've teased on the edge of it at times, and in childhood you were maybe like experiencing some of it. How do you manage it? How prevalent is it? And how does it show up for you? I remember the first time I got it and I wrote about it in the book and I'd never it's quite hard to explain what anxiety is and if someone doesn't have it they're like don't just don't be anxious yeah that's helpful oh okay yeah I'd not thought of that no I actually like inflicting this hell on myself so what you're saying is just don't be anxious oh my god thanks so it's quite hard to explain it yeah and also it was quite hard to explain it when you're first experiencing it and i think i did experience it as a kid and that word just didn't exist and i just didn't know what it was and i remember going to university like the first time i lived on my own like away from my mom and dad and um like feeling like calling my mom and being like i've got this like feeling that someone is about to come into like the classroom at school and say you know when someone says like confirm cotton and you're like yeah or like someone's gonna like push me off a cliff and i don't know what it is my mom was like oh you got anxiety and i was like what's that and she was like well let me tell you let me tell you so i think i started having it around uni and sort of didn't have it like that bad and then it sort of comes in and out of anyone that suffers with anxiety will know just whenever it feels like it really in the worst possible yeah worst possible times yeah um or sometimes i get like a a sort of to the day sort of it remembers it it's like oh you hate january right yeah let me make it worse yeah so it's like january february is like usually like quite a gnarly time for me but i have to like really manage it when i can feel it brewing and how would you do that but i would do it by not drinking at all yeah so i've sort of done four months or five months of no drinking every year love like you know not right now don't clap yeah because that might not be true now not true right now but dry festival dry festival i love that and i never thought that i would love yeah do you know what i mean like i think when growing up in the 90s i think like drinking and drink culture or for me it was the people i looked up to it i thought it was the only way and that is just so brilliant like the gallagher's or like scary spice falling on the floor i was like brilliant and it was sort of like actively encouraged by like the magazines that i need like the face or vice magazine i was just like oh so what you do is you get to 18 you get like blackout drunk brilliant i could do that and it was sort of became like this aspirational validating sort of um I don't know like route that I went on and then actually when I grew up I realized I was like oh actually it gives me horrible anxiety it makes me make bad decisions makes me probably like not a nice person I lose all my ambition I like probably not that good of a friend or like a family member because you like hung over and forgetful and like anxious and like self-obsessed so I just like really really probably about 30 31 like really thought about my relationship with alcohol and over the past I'd say like yeah six years if not longer I've done yeah four five months where I just like don't do it and I do that whenever and then I might do it like you know August to Christmas or last year I did from like I drink when it's Christmas day and then I drank on New Year's Eve and then I didn't drink till like May so I sort of just do it as and when and how do you find the reaction to that because I mean I've actually had sort of some smaller group chats today about this exact subject and how obviously in the UK culturally it's totally encouraged that to mark a moment to celebrate that you have a drink or even if you go out on a night with your friends there is usually someone if you say you're not drinking that goes, oh, don't be boring, come on.

26:29It's my worst thing. The worst. And there is that sort of pressure. So especially in the work that you've done over the years and going to gigs and being in that whole music scene, how have you navigated that? I think, do you know, that is my worst thing when people say don't be boring. Oh, I hate it. People go, why? What's wrong? Yeah. And I'm like, well, nothing's, well, stuff is wrong, but I don't want to get into it at a gig. With you, a stranger. But I don't know. I think how I navigate it, I just say, for me, it's easy just to stop drinking completely. Or now I'm at a stage, in the past five years, definitely, or six years, I can go and have a drink because I'm like, I actually can't be bothered explaining this to 10 people at dinner.

27:14So sometimes I'll just have a glass of wine and drink it and that's it and then no one even notices it. Whereas sometimes if I say, I'm not drinking, 10 people are like, why? What happened? and you're like oh no nothing why are you not drinking and I'm like oh so sometimes it's easy just to like have one and deal with it but then other times I'm like I just don't want to do it and I'm quite happy now in saying I don't want to do it and I don't want to do it because I've got like work on or I'm happy to say I don't like it gives me awful anxiety or I don't like feeling hungover and I'm quite happy saying that whereas years ago I don't never have said that no I mean I was thinking about this when I was reading your book.

27:53I don't know what year it was that I met you, but it was obviously in the thick of that time, probably for both of us. I was, I don't know if I, I was probably at Radio 1 at that point. And I remember seeing you at, I think it was a kook's gig. Sounds about right. Very over time. Very over time, early noughties. We both had horrendous hair. And I remember that scene and that pressure. But also what I'm really interested in, when I was reading your book, certainly about that era of your life is I'm deeply fascinated at looking at moments where you could call it luck or you could call it actually making your own luck and finding those opportunities and you can see in this book and obviously I know you relatively well but I learned a hell of a lot about that era of your life and you made all of your luck and yes there has to be a certain amount of serendipity and timing.

28:46But you made the decision as a teenager, or maybe early 20s, to move to London on your own. You did not know a single person. You were reaching out to the Queens of Noise, who are two brilliant DJs who are prevalent in that era on that scene, and started chatting to them and asked if you could stay in one of their flats. You were calling MTV. You were actively putting yourself out there. Do you think that is just part of your personality? So, again, I've spoken to lots of people this weekend about this subject of, I want to write a book, I want to do this thing, but how do you start? What is the start point?

29:23And looking at that era of your life, you seemed completely proactive without knowing anyone, with a lot of risk taken. Is that just inherently part of who you are? do you know what i think it's it was funny sitting and writing the book and thinking about that time in my life because i worry now i'm older that sort of fearless ambition it goes gone yeah and i'm like oh was that was that is that like my ambition i don't know shot is that like now did i use it all like is that gone but yeah when i was a kid i was really didn't know i wanted to do and i loved music and my brother and sister were quite good in guiding me and that they had you know proper jobs and i loved music and wanted to do radio and loved the radio like loved listening to the radio and they both quite encouraged me to be like don't be my sister's an accountant she's like don't be an accountant do what you want to do like please go and do what you want to do she's like it's boring i hate it and my brother was like go and do it go and do it so i think they sort of encouraged me to do it my mum and dad were like don't do it go please be an accountant and then I don't know I couldn't I was I didn't really like I didn't excel in anything at school like I wasn't very good at learning or revising or paying attention or having focus but the only thing that I was really good at and focused on was was radio and music and sort of talking to people at parties that my mom and dad would have or dinner parties that my mom would have so I thought maybe I can do this maybe I should go and do radio and I just remember being um probably I set that intention really young like I was probably like 12 or something where I was like I want to do it and then I just thought about it never said it out loud and I remember saying to my brother's girlfriend at the time when I was doing my GCSEs I was like 15 and she was quite inspirational to me in that she had a cool job and she just like she worked in like graphic design which I'd like never heard of in Old Term and I just thought she was like a cool person who did cool stuff and she was like what do you want to do and I was like I don't know and she was like don't you want to do the radio and I was like yeah I don't know and I sort of talked myself out of it and I remember her saying to me like why don't you want to do it why couldn't you do it and I said I don't know, I think it's kind of like too big a dream.

31:55And she's like, like what? And I said, well, it's a bit like saying, oh, I want to be a footballer, or I want to go and be an astronaut. And she said to me, well, people are astronauts, and people are footballers, so figure it out. And I remember being like, yeah, that's right. There are astronauts. But I remember that like as clear as day. And I was like, she's right, like I should just go and do it. So I just I didn't know how to do it. Like I applied for student radio in the area, but it was like one in Oldham. I applied for like work experience at the two radio stations in Manchester, did it in one.

32:32The other one did right back. Went to uni, did student radio, wanted to do the breakfast show because I thought that was the biggest show. Terrible idea at university because students are asleep. Oh, so no one listens. Right. But I just did it and practiced and and no one listened. Like we had like, not exaggerating, like the most listeners we had was seven people one day. So that you would count, you had to log on. So you could see, and me and my friend Grani were like, oh my God, seven.

33:04If you're a smoker or vapor ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zinn Nicotine Pouches, you'll discover many good reasons. Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand. Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zin. Check out Zin.com slash find to find Zin at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

33:36But we like went and did it because that's what I wanted to do. So then I didn't really know how to do it. I didn't have any like industry connections. I didn't know anyone who worked in any sort of creative industry, apart from my brother's girlfriend who worked in graphic design, and unfortunately, not Radio 1. So I just applied everywhere. Like, I applied to ITV, Channel 4, BBC, MTV, Radio 1, got a rejection letter from Radio 1. Like, they sent me that back, which my mum framed for me one year as a Christmas present. Love your mum. Bit passive-aggressive. She was like, do you remember this?

34:14I was like, oh, yeah, that was really sad. I was like... That was like a traumatic moment, Mum. Cheers. And she's like, oh, it's a nice frame. I was like, it's a nice frame. And I just was, like, adamant that I wanted to do it. And I ended up applying everywhere and getting a job at MTV. And I applied for so many jobs at MTV that when I went for the interview, I didn't even know which job it was because I'd applied for, like, eight. So I went and I worked there in the international creative department. I was the intern, so I basically just had to get the graphic designers pens and coffee and assist in that way.

34:51And I was doing, like, running on TV shows, so making people cut to tea on TV shows. I handed out flyers for nightclubs because I thought, oh, maybe, like, if I give out the flyers, I can get into the club for free. And maybe I will meet, I don't know, a TJ. There was, like, sort of a vague get to London, try and do as much as you can, but no clear route to Radio 1, really. and then when I was working at MTV doing my internship I was quite a bad intern but they quite liked having me in the office You were a lovely bad intern Yeah, and they were like you're so rubbish But you're so nice But it's so nice that you're here And like I'd bring my friends into the office and they'd be like your friend can't come to work And I'd be like can't she not And they were like no It's an office Like I was 20 and I didn't really know I didn't get it And then, so they said to me, like, you should do the telly, like, you should do a screen test.

35:48And I was like, no, I don't want to do the telly. I want to do radio. And for the nine months that I worked at MTV, they were like, you should do a telly, like, screen test. Or I knew someone that I'd met through working at MTV who worked at Channel 4. And she was like, you should do, like, E4 music. And I was like, no, I want to do the radio. So I turned down the telly for ages until MTV were like, you're rubbish and fired. So then I was like, I'll do the telly then. That was that or go on to Oldham. But it was hard. When I left MTV, I was on the dole in Camden and just trying to do flyering and doing doors of nightclubs.

36:24But I just knew I had to stay in London. And I think turning down the telly for ages was maybe a bad idea, but also a good idea because my intention was really clear. I wasn't vague in, I want to broadcast. I was like I want to host the Radio On Breakfast show and I was precise about that from 12 to 22 or 20 yeah 22 when I did my first telly thing I was like I want to do the Radio On Breakfast show so I don't know if like the the specificness yes helped the goal do you know what I mean because it wasn't like I don't know I was like I want to do that and I liked that because it felt the freest and it felt like the naughtiest.

37:06And, you know, like it was Sarah Carks and Zoe Ball and Chris Evans. And they just felt like people who were funny who went out, who came on and told their stories. I think it is the precision because I think that is what we now call manifesting. That word didn't exist back in the day. Burn invented it in 2005. Correct. Alongside Oprah Winfrey and Gabby Bernstein. But I think you were doing that exactly. And it is interesting how you were absolutely able to have that pinpoint focus. But as you alluded to at the start of this, it is so much harder to do as you get older. I don't know if that's because we're second guessing the pitfalls and the blockages that we're going to experience.

37:51But it gets harder to take risks and to also, I think, believe in yourself. because no matter if you were going through self-loathing at times or not, you were still able to harness that self-belief. And if you didn't have that, you wouldn't have ended up acutely achieving that dream. You didn't do it a bit. You absolutely did the dream job that you wanted to do. So I think it is amazing when we look back when we were younger and we did have that ability and energy to go, this is what I'm doing and no one can tell me otherwise. It gets harder. Yeah. I don't know how I did it. And when I was writing the book, like I couldn't write it.

38:26Like I couldn't sit down and focus. And I was like, surely this is the easy bit because I'm just writing about what's happened. And it was like, you know, spiraling again, being like, how did I do that? Go from olden to doing the breakfast show. And now I can't sit in my kitchen and write it. Like, you know, I mean, you sort of I don't know what happens. You're right. You've sort of experienced the kickbacks. You know that they're bad. you've experienced your mum giving you a rejection letter in a frame so you know it hurts so I don't know it's something that it was when I left Radio 1 I was really trying to discover and explore like is that it do you have like one dream do you have like one ambition in your life or can you keep evolving and changing and setting new goals big or small and achieving them did you have somewhat of a I don't know like a lull after Radio 1 because you know you completed that dream you you you did the breakfast show and very successfully and then when you left radio one in 2021 yeah i'm imagining that was quite a moment because you've lived with this dream for so long and yes we all reach these natural expiry moments of okay i did that and that felt really good but i know it's my time to move on you know where did your head go after that not having that focus that goal of this is where i'm headed and i'm i'm i'm not going to be deterred by it well it was like a massive part of my life I was there 14 years but then I probably thought about it and talked about it every day for 10 years before so it was like 24 years of my life was either focused on radio one and then when I worked there being even more focused obviously because I was very professional um but do you know I mean so you're just like talking about radio one and focusing on it and when I was there I did a daily show for 12 of those years so every day you're in that cycle of doing the same thing and I never ever in those 14 years plus the 10 thinking about it thought about leaving yeah like I never thought about it and I knew I'd have to leave because radio one's you know not a radio station where you join and stay forever like you don't retire there you know I knew that maybe I'd work there for like three years or five years and that'd be amazing or 10 years so you know you've always gonna like have to leave do you know what mean so it wasn't about the leaving but it was like the what i found hard was like the daily ness of just of chatting to people like i found that really hard because you'd have the show and you'd have your plan of the show but then someone could just text in and she's like oh hi i'm claire oh my god my cat just put my shoes on or whatever and then that entire show is about claire's cat that's put the shoes on and then you'll be in like the supermarket after and someone will talk to and be like, oh my God, what about Claire's cat?

41:15And you're like, right, yeah, no. So you're in this like constant conversation and people remember stuff you said like weeks ago and I'll come up to you and be like, Claire's cat, eh? You're like, I know, it's so funny. And like, so that was weird. Like it's a community and like a massive conversation. And yeah, it was weird like not to be in that. But it was also quite nice not to be in that as well. But it took me a while to get used to it, to not be thinking of everything that you're doing could be content for the radio. Yeah, I know. I was doing that, like, all the time. Oh, my God, yeah. Like, every single thing I'd see, I'd be like, right, beanbags.

41:50Can I talk about beanbags tomorrow on the radio? Because you've got three and a half hours every day to, like, film. So you'd be like, right, oh, my God, lights. What can we talk about? A table. A table. You're like, table. Yeah. Texting if you've got a table. You're, like, doing that constantly. So it was quite nice not to do that. But my friend gave me some really nice advice, advice which was he said when you um leave your job or like a tour finishes or like a big commitment finishes change your day completely change your routine so if you leave your job or you're going on you know a sabbatical or whatever or you're quitting radio one to go and work somewhere else change your day he said don't wake up and do the dog walk the gym then you'd go to radio one then you'd do this meeting then you'd go have your dinner he said because once radio one's gone then you just like you're doing the dog walk doing the gym and then like this massive gap where i used to do my dream then so he was like totally change it change your total life in like what you want to do in the setup like you don't have to be in that structure again like and i still now have to leave him two years ago but like tonight i'll worry about going to bed early because I think I've got the radio tomorrow morning yeah that will never leave or never why do we think we've got school tomorrow I hate it why I'm like let me live so I actively was like let me change and yeah so we do things like Sunday night we're gonna get dressed and go into town and you're gonna have dinner at nine o 'clock oh that's so like because I was like I ain't getting up tomorrow morning no but I like still had like this like fear that I was like oh, gonna be up early tomorrow.

43:36I hear you. And I had that. So I had to like do like big shifts like that and sort of shake off any routine. I went to LA for a month. Oh yeah, that was an interesting period. There was quite a lot of wellness in that bit of the book. Oh, much wellness. There was all sorts of like... The city of wellness. The city of wellness and all sorts of strange scenarios going on within wellness. Yeah, so I then, I finished radio and I was like, I want a month off because I'm going to do what my friend advised me of shake up. and then I couldn't. I had to work from August to Christmas. So I did my month off in January and I thought, I don't want to be off sat in my house in January while Misha's at work and all my friends are at work and it's dark at two.

44:19And I had to write this. So I was like, I'll go to LA because the sun's out and I'll write a book and look out of a window and I'll be a writer. And I found it really quite an uninspiring lonely place and um yeah I just did a lot of wellness and I'd done like a month sober like before and then I was sober there and I had like a few I think I did until like May that year whatever so whilst I was in LA I was like I'm gonna be really relaxed yeah and I'm gonna do what everyone legally does yeah California and I'm gonna buy some medical marijuana yeah right now i'm not a weed smoker okay so i you're a weightlifter i'm a weightlifter okay so and like get buying weed in la is like the shops look like the apple shop like it's like a luxury posh healthy experience yeah yeah yeah people are like bloody chuffing it everything yeah yeah yeah like there's all different like oh that's like a posh one that's like the whole foods one that's the organic one or whatever so my friend who lives in LA was like I will take you to this place so we go in and like you can pick which type you want and what you want it for so I met this guy who has like an iPad and he's like welcome like how can we help today so I was like um I am really anxious and not just today just generally yeah and I was like and I'm here and I'm not drinking, and I really want to feel relaxed, grounded.

46:01And I was imagining, like, you see, like, Seth Rogen or, like, Rihanna. I'm like, like, they just look like they're, like, cool with themselves. Yeah, yeah, I just want to be like Rihanna. Like, Rihanna, I'm like, she can't be anxious. No. She just looks like she's in tune with herself. And I thought, it's grown in California. They all smoke it. What could go wrong? What could go wrong? Well, I don't know if he was an idiot or if I should never smoke weed. Both? Both. It was, like, the worst experience ever. Not relaxing, if you would imagine. No, it was, like, it was, like, you know when they show someone, like, in a film, I mean, like, a bad experience on acid.

46:43It was, like, it was that. Wow. And it was, like, a Sunday, and I went and sat on the roof where we were staying. we rented this like little apartment and um i thought i'll go up take my laptop and the weed they like i don't know how to roll a joint so they roll it like it comes pre-made it was in a beautiful like flowered box with a magnetic lid oh that can't that nothing can go wrong in it lavender right inside so i was like great it's bad fun so bad so i had a bit and i was like writing i was like it's not really doing anything so i was like right it's just just blaze this and it was so bad and i entered and i think it was anxiety and i think it was stress and i think it was jet lag and i think i don't know what it was and marijuana and marijuana but i think like maybe when people who are smoking it and look happy maybe they're in a really chilled relaxed state and maybe they're not like really anxious from like leaving their dream job yeah i've just been filming for five months and i've got jet lag and now under pressure to write this book that we do three weeks ago so i i was like i think i was in like a stressed bad place and i had it and i went like under and it was really bad and i'm like joking because it was really really scary and it was like full-blown psychosis to the poem of having to ring like 9-1-1 and Mish was like freaking out.

48:13Like he'd not smoked it. He was like, I came down from the roof and I was like, like the floor was all like messy. Oh no. Like I didn't know, I didn't recognize Mish. Like I thought it was a different man in there. It was really bad. Edward Scissorhands. Really very. Edward Scissorhands. So he's like panicking because like, he's like, what the fuck are you doing? And so he was ringing 999 and I was like, Wrong country, mate. No, 911. And he was like, what? And then he was going 119. So I was like, you're trying to trick me and he was like no you've just come down from the roof and you're acting you're paranoid so anyway so he calls them and calls them and he's like my boyfriend has done this blah blah and they're like okay has he taken any drugs and he's like yeah marijuana they're like no like drugs and they're like no he smoked a split and the woman on the phone was like right we're not going to send an ambulance because that's not a medical emergency but it lasted for like hours and hours and hours and it was really scary and really hated it and um i was like i've got to go to the hospital because i was like i'd had a i'd had like a really bad panic attack once before in my life which resulted in me having to go to the hospital and i was like fearing that Like if you've had a bad one, if one starts brewing, you're like, well, that's going to happen.

49:33I'm going to go to the hospital. So then it sort of exasperates. And I was like, oh, my God, this is going to happen. So I've just got to go so that a doctor can be like, you're fine. So as we go in there, it's getting worse and worse and worse, get in there. And when I was in there, Mish said, I'm just going to ring Nadia, who's my yoga teacher, who now has moved to L.A. And she said, let me just ring her. And she was like, babe, get out of there. She's like, what are you doing? and I was like well I just need she's like first of all breathe yeah breathe and get out of the stressful American emergency room very expensive very expensive she was like yeah don't get your credit card and just breathe and she like taught like talked me out of it and I like breathed myself out of it with the help of Nadia Yogan Nadia God bless her Yogan Nadia she's forever called and then um yeah ruled out from my wellness to-do list in LA marijuana so I thought let's try like spirulina next time that would be a safer bet yeah so I was like god maybe I'm not meant to be and the wellness whilst I'm well the chapter is like maybe it actually inspired a lot of that chapter because I was like well if I'm not happy like drunk and I'm not happy like relaxed like where am I?

50:48Like maybe I'm not meant to be relaxed. Maybe I'm meant to be anxious. Maybe I'm meant to be, maybe I'm not Rihanna, like this relaxed person. Maybe I'm uptight. Maybe I'm uptight. And Nadia was like, maybe you are. Like maybe that's who you are and that's all right. So it was a useful, traumatic, but useful process in going through that because it just made me sit and think about like who I am and what works for someone might not work for me. Yes, I think it's very important when we're having this conversation to acknowledge that because a lot of time we can then turn on ourselves and go well this works for them and they're so relaxed and so chilled out whenever they do yoga or whatever and what I would hate any of this to be at this festival or anything we're doing is you've got to do this and then you're going to feel amazing I think the biggest part is experimenting and working out what works for you and it's not marijuana for you my darling it's not but I think it's a really important chat and I urge you to read the book because it's not only funny but it's also so poignant and there's loads of lovely moments in there there's loads about your lovely dad as well that I loved reading it's a really beautiful book and I want to say a massive thank you to you for coming to the Happy Place Festival and being a part of it please everyone show your appreciation for Nick Crenshaw

52:10Oh Nick I had so much fun with you doing that chat thank you so much I mean I always do thank you for coming to the festival I know you were darting off back to London afterwards so your time was so appreciated by us all Nick's book Soflad is out in paperback now oh and he did a truly brilliant little roundup of his day at the festival on Instagram complete with a voiceover narrating everything, including shoving me in a whole bunch of ferns, which was an interesting twist to my day. Do go and check it out for a little behind-the-scenes look. We're on Instagram too, at Happy Place Official. I'd love to chat with you there.

52:48We'll be live from the Happy Place Festival in Tatton Park again next week, and I'll be chatting to a man who is the king of vibes. Who could it be? I'll leave you to mull over that one until next week. I want to say a huge thank you to Nick, to the producer Anushka Tate at Rethink Audio, and to you, I bloody love you. Biggest thanks to you gorgeous lot.

54:01We'll be right back. at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.