Norah Jones: Owning accomplishments, repairing relationships, and surfing

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. This is the show that celebrates curiosity and creativity. Today, I'm chatting to Nora Jones. Some songwriters work like that where they try to write every day. And I tried that for a while a long time ago and it just didn't work for me. I like it when it just pops into your head. Obviously, I'm a product of all the information you've inputted into your brain. And so all the music I've listened to in my whole life has influenced me. And most ideas come from something. And it's like language. When you listen to everybody talk, eventually you start talking and you put together your own sentences.

0:38So it's the same kind of thing. Nora first emerged on the world stage in 2002 with one of the most beautiful songs ever, Come Away With Me. Since then, she's become a nine-time Grammy winner, sold more than 52 million albums. That is ridiculous. 52 million. She hosts a brilliant podcast that I love called Nora Jones is Playing Along and now she's released a new album, Visions. Ah, it's delightful. But throughout her career, she's also continued to hone her craft, learning new instruments by just playing at random bars in New York, wearing an assortment of hats as disguises. You might have seen on social media just a few weeks ago, she was playing the piano at St Pancreas Station in London.

1:27Maybe you were lucky enough to have been there. I sadly was not. I always love understanding other people's creative processes, so it was really interesting to hear from Nora that she needs the silence. It's moments of quiet when you're not really trying to come up with anything profound that you can properly tune in to what ideas your mind is trying to deliver you. I was also so appreciative of how beautifully Nora spoke about her relationship with her family. Her dad was musician Ravi Shankar, but they were estranged until she was 18. On rekindling their relationship, she also discovered she had a half-sister, the equally talented musician Anoushka Shankar.

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3:35Visit Michaels in store or Michaels.com today to supply your next party. Right, we'll get to Nora in just a moment. But first, I'm so excited to be able to reveal some of the incredible people who are going to be joining us at the Happy Place festivals this summer. We've got Jason Donovan, Roxy Nafusi, Dorno Porter, Olivia Atwood, Denise Van Outen and Ugo Monja. They're all going to be there alongside loads more to be announced very soon. They'll be on stage with a huge range of inspiring talks and workshops. Then there's also a brand new area called the Nutrition Hub. Loads of opportunities to try something new on our centre stage like yoga and dancing and all sorts.

4:24And you can also listen to some beautiful poetry at our expressive arts area too. For more info and to get your tickets, just head to happyplaceofficial.co.uk. OK, let's do it. This is the show.

5:00Hello, Nora Jones. Hi. How are you? I'm pretty good today. Thank you. Good. I'm so gutted that I didn't know you were at St. Pancreas Station playing the piano the other day. It was fun. I would have been there in a heartbeat. I don't know if anybody could hear anything. That's the thing because I sing kind of quiet. I tried to belt out some songs, but I couldn't tell. What a cool thing. It was a total surprise. You just rocked up and everyone was like, oh, my God, is that Laura Jones? Does that look like Laura Jones? That's Laura Jones. Well, that's funny because I had this. They asked me to do it and I was like, all right.

5:31And then they walked me there and I was like, nobody's going to know that I'm here or who I am because I just assume that. Come on, you're Nora Jones. I know, but I know, but that's just how I think. It's a healthy way to think. Well, I walk down the street, nobody knows who I am. So, you know what I mean? It's kind of like that. But people did know who you were and it was like everywhere on the Internet. It was such a cool moment. It was funny. So cool. Yeah. I have listened to your album this week 842 times. I am obsessed. It's so beautiful. Oh, thank you. It's so beautiful. All this time is such a gorgeous opener.

6:09It's a good opener. With all those harmonies and then the title track Visions. It's really stripped back. Sounds like there's a bit of like a mariachi band moment going on. But it's just so beautiful. I love it. Thank you. I mean, I love listening to albums long form and listening to them chronologically and hearing the kind of story of an album. People don't tend to do that these days. Does that bother you? No, I don't really care. I don't either. Do you not? No. I mean, I do and I love something, but I often listen to playlists and so I get it. But I like making albums. So I liked how this one came about.

6:49And I did change the way I did things for a few years. A few years back, I started doing collaborations with people and putting out singles because it was just so easy. And I liked doing that, too. Yeah. There's something special about when you do have the time, like I like listening to music when I'm cooking or if I'm out walking, to try and hear the flow of it and to work out why the artist or band has put a song in a certain place. Or is there some sort of story going on with this particular album? Is there a story? Is there something that you wanted to express in that particular order? it was more of a um let's work on songs and see where we get and then at the end it was what is this you know so it definitely wasn't pre-planned and actually we had a different order and we had two songs we cut as well we had a different order and it was a completely different album and then we flipped it around kind of and now it's what it is but yeah it's funny how the order changed it so so much oh it's just so beautiful I love it obviously you've been in the music industry for so long now and it's changed incredibly you know I worked I did work in radio for a long long time and I was I could see it you could see it changing the momentum changing and how streaming was coming into play and now it's just a whole different format going on how have you moved with that change do you like it do you prefer it how it was back in the day you were one of the original like CD sellers.

8:17You were selling tons and tons of CDs. One of the last. This is it. I know. I had your album on CD. How does it feel sort of seeing those and also how you promote an album? You know, back in the day, you'd go on probably a few big TV shows. Now we've got podcasts, which I'm very grateful for, but also TikTok and the whole social media thing. It's changed entirely. How do you feel about that? I mean, you just go with it, really. There's nothing to do about it. So you just have to sort of adjust. But I feel really lucky that I sold CDs when you could because people have a hard time making money now.

8:51Young artists. And, you know, it's just a different thing. And you have to be your own PR person, marketing person with social media. You have to do it all yourself. It's wild, isn't it? I mean, I have great people at my record label who do things for me. But, I mean, as a young artist starting out, you kind of have to just do everything. Yeah. And I guess there's also that pressure as a young artist that you have to have something that goes viral for it to mean something. Yeah, there's a lot of noise. Yeah. I felt like back in the day, it could be a slow burn. It could be something that people discovered.

9:24And now it's like, oh, no, you've missed the boat. Bye. Yeah. It's terrifying. And record labels, of course, are struggling. But also they're not investing in long-term artists as much, I don't think, because they are capturing the TikTok sensation and all that stuff. So they're trying to get what's hot instead of seeing potential in something, I think. Yeah. What's hot rather than what's good some of the time? Sometimes what is hot is good. But, you know, sometimes you take a person who's got all these TikTok views and you put them on a big stage and they don't know how to do a show because they just haven't had the experience.

10:00Yeah. And that's something that you did have starting out is that you were playing a lot and that you were getting out there. But it was still quick. I mean, yeah, I still didn't have enough experience. Yeah, but do you ever, I wonder, because it's such a scary thing. We're around the same age. You know, that album for me was so important, your first record. And I had it on CD and I played it and I played it. And even listening to it now, it's so comfortable for me to listen to that album. It's nostalgic. There's memories attached to it. I was living in this little cottage and I just remember it was on my little hi-fi in my fireplace.

10:31I just play it constantly. And it's so gorgeous. But you went from putting that album out there to the world, knowing about it, to, you know, traveling around, winning Grammys. It was so full on around that time. How did you process what was going on? It was a lot. I mean, I don't know. You just kind of go with it until you realize that certain things aren't working for you and you sort of change and adjust and try to scale back on the scheduling. You know, when things become sort of successful in that way, you're trying to keep the momentum going for so long. And then you realize you don't need to do that because it's got to that tipping point and you're overexposed and there's a backlash and then you just want to like crawl into a hole.

11:17Isn't it sad that that is the cycle that everyone has to go through that? You know, you get built up and on this pedestal and then they're like, quick, like knock them off. Knock them off. It's horrible. Yeah. And you're young. Yeah. It's definitely a weird thing to go through. But there was a lot of positives, obviously. And we had a lot of fun. And then there was a lot of stressful times. Yeah, of course. I'm imagining it's you wake up, where am I? What state am I in? What country am I in? You literally don't know. And that's not an exaggeration. I've spoken to so many bands. They're like, you don't know where you are.

11:50Yeah, sometimes. Yeah, quite unnerving. I mean, it seems, I guess you had that luxury of that first album doing so well that you had a choice to go, right, well, what do I want out of this? You know, what comes next? And from all the interviews I've listened to you on and articles I've read, it seems that you made a choice that you didn't necessarily want to recreate that level of furore and madness. You chose a different route. Yeah, I let it go. And I realized that I probably couldn't even if I'd wanted to. For what reason? Because it was such a weird thing that happened to me. It was a, you know, obviously I think it was good.

12:29I think that the first album was great and I'm not belittling my talent or anything. But it was a lot of that sort of stars aligned thing as well and right place, right time, right moment in our society for an album like that, all that stuff. So I just knew I couldn't control it. I couldn't control recreating it. So I tried to focus on the music, which is exactly what I did making the first album. So I just continued to do that. And I've been really happy with the way my career's gone. Yeah. Also, that first album was so big. It was stressful. So I was like, I don't really need that. I think actually that's quite rare because most artists and bands, they kill themselves trying to make a second album that has the same level of impact.

13:19And I'm sure that must take the joy out of it. It must. Yeah, it must. And that's what music is for, for me. is if it needs to stay sort of joyful and meaningful to you for it to mean anything to anyone else. But I guess what you have to do, and whether you've done this consciously or subconsciously, you have to take your ego out of the equation. Because if you have your ego up at the forefront, it's going, this has to have the same amount of craziness around it. It needs to have the same numbers. People need to be as excited. But you, would you say, naturally weren't as bothered about that stuff?

13:55I naturally shied away from it, I think. And also my record label was Blue Note Records. It's a classic jazz label. I mean, they weren't completely in that world either. Of course, they wanted the numbers to match, but they weren't of the personality types to be like telling me about it. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it was pretty a good situation for me, a good group of people. And over the years, you've actually gone off and joined bands, formed bands and played in bars anonymously, like with a hat on, learning to play the guitar. What was the impetus behind that? I just wanted to play. And I live in New York City and it's easy to play.

14:35And I didn't want it to be a big brouhaha, you know. So we would do like an unannounced shows. I would wear a hat. Yeah, I played some really crappy guitar in a pool hall in 2005. But, you know, our pretty harmony singing, I think, made up for it. But I learned that's how I learned. I'm not a great practicer. I'm not very disciplined. And I've always done a lot of gigs, even in college and high school. So I think that's how I learned best is just by doing it. Yeah. So I found that that was the most fun thing for me. During the absolute craziness of that first album Did it tip into I'm not enjoying this anymore Or I'm not enjoying the music Yeah It tipped into I'm too tired to even think about the music So I just sort of hit a wall and I said no more of all this And I'm tired So if you want me to quit This is the way to do it Yeah And what was the route back to falling in love with it again?

15:36I just stopped doing all the stuff that wasn't fun, you know, and I focused on the music again. Yeah. And is it important to have those new challenges like I can't play the guitar. I better pick one up. That was really fun because guitar was sort of my my way into songwriting because I didn't write a lot. I was a new songwriter when my first album came out. I wrote two songs in high school and I hated them. So I shut the book. Yeah. And then because, you know, you're embarrassed by yourself when you're young. and then when I moved to New York, I was 20, and I started hanging out with all these songwriters, and they really inspired me, and so I started writing songs, and I had a guitar, and the first song I wrote when I moved to New York was Come Away With Me, and it's truly a five-chord country song when you break it down, and so I only had like two or three songs on my first album, and so learning how to play guitar better and getting into that sort of opened up a new channel for me.

16:37How do you feel listening back to those early songs? Because you're right, there is that level of vulnerability. You're talking about something very real to you in that moment and this is spanning back 20 years ago and I mean I had the ghastly job the other week of looking through this huge Tupperware box that was in my loft full of all my old diaries. Oh, that's the worst. I'm cringing, thinking about it. But we were doing it for a project that I'm working on and I was like, I've just got to get in there and look. And of course, it was mortifying. It was so embarrassing. And I was with other people, so I felt completely exposed.

17:14It was just icky and horrible. Songwriting might not be to that level of me talking about what boys I fancied, but you've still got that vulnerability of, wow, that's how I felt 20 years ago. Do you feel like that when you're listening back to old music? I don't completely. I think I, when I think about some of the songs we wouldn't put on the album, like that didn't make the album, I feel more like that. But luckily, I feel like I had enough of a filter where I, if it embarrassed me then, I wouldn't use it. And so with the new album, what was pressing, what felt urgent that needed to come out of you for you to sing about and explore thematically?

17:58I don't know. I don't think I always know until after the fact. Wow. Yeah. But I definitely felt I had a lot of songs brewing that were sort of middle of the night voice memos, kind of meditations or in the bath. Those moments where you get quiet, which is so rare when you have kids. And it's rare for anyone, I think, modern life because of our phones. So it's important to remember to not always have your headphones in. Yeah. And sort of let your thoughts come up with something. and that's how you write or that's how I write. So I had a few little snippets of songs like that that I wanted to work out.

18:33But I don't know. I think coming out of the pandemic and sort of getting back to normal and all that stuff and perspectives change and I think there's a lot of that in this album. So you meditate regularly? Is that a way that you clear your head to get quiet? I used to. I try to again. Yeah, I'm the same. I'm on and off the wagon. Me too, yeah. Lately I've been really trying to do it. I do TM, so it's hard to do it twice a day, but I try to at least do it once a day. But it usually turns into a nap. No bad thing. Yeah, which I kind of feel like is awesome and I must need it. You've definitely relaxed.

19:09If you fall asleep, you've certainly relaxed. So you will have these moments where sometimes, what, a lyric comes into your head, a melody, it just arrives. It's usually a melody and it's usually attached to a lyric. And it's just a little snippet. How cool. I'm so jealous. And that's the inspiration, right? And then so if you record that, you don't have to worry about it. And then you can work on it later. But you have the inspired bit, which is really what you want. Isn't it amazing that that happens? You know, I've talked to many songwriters. One that's springing to mind is Chris Martin. Says that he sort of catches songs at night.

19:42And he's sort of out there, you know, you're channeling. Essentially, you're channeling something. I've had it in tiny, tiny ways, I guess, with my writing. So I'll have an idea that lands. I'm not quite sure what it is. and I can play around with it. But it's so weird that you're not sat there brainstorming. Something lands in your head. I find that fascinating. Yeah, some songwriters work like that where they try to write every day. And I tried that for a while, a long time ago, and it just didn't work for me. Is it just kind of creatively exhausted, sort of trying to find ideas? Yeah, I like it when it just pops into your head.

20:16Obviously, I'm lazy about it, maybe. But yeah, I find it's more inspired and it's more magical. Yeah. how does that even what is that how does that even happen I can't articulate it that moment where an idea I mean people have obviously had it you know with inventions or coming up with problem solving whatever I find that fascinating that yeah an idea just lands it's there well I think you're a product of all the information you've inputted into your brain and so all the music I've listened to in my whole life has influenced me and and most ideas come from something and it's not that you're copying another song but it's like language when you listen to everybody talk eventually you start talking and you put together your own sentences so it's the same kind of thing yeah I just think it's especially with music because I'm not musical but I'm obsessed with music so I just find it the most beautiful thing that someone can have that idea and the next thing you know it's a formed piece of music there's no joy like it it's pretty fun I gotta say It's so fun.

21:19What a gift. It's a great job. And then Leon Michaels is the producer on this record. And we just had so much fun working together in that way because we would just, we're both very fast and we both don't overthink things. Yeah. And so we just kept throwing things at the songs and seeing how to finish them. And it was just a really fun process. So are you pretty good at going, we've got it, that's it? Because some musicians will painstakingly go over something again and again to the point where they're like, they don't even know if it's good or not. You're pretty good at going, done. I'm pretty good at going done, but, you know, in music, there's this process where you, after you're done with the song, you mix it.

21:54And so you balance all the levels out, but it can get quite complicated. And so that, I'm a little more frustrating in that world. Because when it's just the song and it feels done and then you mix it and it sounds different or it's not quite right and it's very nitpicky. But, you know, like I said, with this album, like with Visions, that is very, very stripped back. So did that take some getting your head around that you wanted to put it out sounding raw and not overproduced? No, I think it just happened that way. That song, though, yeah, I knew I just wanted it to be me and guitar. And then I had this mariachi thing in my head.

22:32I have no idea why. I'm from Texas, so it's sort of a lot of that down there. But I knew I had this trumpet idea. But Leon asked me to add harmonies. I was like, I don't know. This is a pretty solitary song. He's like, well, just try. And then the harmonies were so pretty and they really made it. Oh, it's so beautiful.

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24:57I was talking to my husband this week about us doing this chat together and in ways I was like, he would be better at doing this interview because you've got a lot of similarities going on. So he's got an extremely famous father. Okay. You've got a very renowned, esteemed, famous father who passed away a few years ago now. Twelve. Twelve years ago. Yeah, it's crazy. Wow, that is much longer ago than I thought. Time flies. I mean, it's a strange thing to have a dad who is a renowned musician. I think for many reasons. One, there's assumption that's there about who you are and what you like and what skill set you have.

25:34But also, I think it can come with a level of expectation. Have you experienced that? Well, it's a little bit of a complicated answer because I didn't grow up with my dad. So I saw him here and there, but I never lived with him. And then we were estranged for quite a long time, like nine or so years. We didn't talk at all. And I have a half-sister who I didn't meet until I was 18, and she was 16, Anushka. And so when I was 18, I reunited with my dad. So there's all of this stuff like undercurrent of it's not just that he's famous. Yeah. It's also that we have a complicated relationship as most families have complicated things.

26:19And then whenever I first hit the scene with my first record, everybody wanted to talk about it. But I felt so conflicted about it because I grew up where he wasn't looming. It was so complicated is my point. And then, you know, with soundbites, as we talked about, if we'd had podcasts back then, I could have gone into the story, you know, and really express myself. But with soundbites, everybody got it wrong. So either one side of my family was unhappy with the way the headline was just about my dad and one side of my family was upset if the headline was estranged father. You know, we ended up having a really great relationship once I was 18 and got to know him.

27:04So right in the middle of all that finally happening, I became successful and it just got really misrepresented. And honestly, it's just nobody's business. But it's also complicated and it's not all my story. It's my parents' story. Right. So honestly, that really messed me up back then. And so that was part of the stress of the success for me. Yeah, I bet. Well, because the pressure is on you and all eyes are on you from the people that you actually care about. They're the appearance that you do worry about rather than the outside. They didn't hold back. Yeah. But it's often the case. But of course, I didn't want to tarnish his reputation by being the estranged, you know.

27:42And honestly, like none of that mattered when it was just us. But the way people represent things is just so wrong sometimes. Yeah. Well, the media like to do that. Exactly. They like to inflate one side of the story. So everybody was always hurt. And then I was in the middle of it kind of. And so that was weird. And so the fact that our music is so, so different, I think I never felt that sort of looming thing in that way. It was just like a completely different lane. And he was very, very proud of me. And so, you know, it all ended up being okay after a few years passed. We all kind of like was able to put that behind us.

28:23But I mean, I never look at press, so I never really thought about how it was being represented until it got kind of weird. And then everybody was kind of upset. Oh, God, it's such an awful situation. I mean, on both sides, my mom, my dad. Sure. But it's complicated. And rightly so, because it's their lives being represented not accurately as well. So I got it. Yeah. I mean, it was hard. It's complicated enough without having fame and pressure and everything put in there as well. Now, similarly, my husband didn't grow up with his dad at all. So he grew up with his mum in the UK. So I think he's, and I'm speaking for him, but we've chatted about this before.

29:00He had that strange situation where he was having a very regular life in a flat with his mum here. Same. And his dad was, you know, living the dream, travelling around the world, etc, etc. What did you make of that growing up? What did you think of him? How did you see him? I think in a similar way, my husband didn't really know his dad very well until later down the line. So it's all quite strange knowing that it felt maybe important or a bit fancy and different to the life he's living with his mom. But you don't really know what to make of it. It's really confusing. I think I just didn't think about it that much.

29:35I wasn't super aware. I remembered going to India when I was really little and we spent time with him. But I remembered it so little because I was very small. so I barely remembered it and then and then we kind of separated more and um I don't know I just I didn't think about it that much until I was older and then I had a lot of anger but like also confusion you know and then my dad's also Indian and my mom is white and I grew up in Texas and I had a really nice childhood with my mom and it was great and her family's from Oklahoma and but culturally I'm not very I'm not Indian because I didn't grow up around that culture at all so that's a whole other piece to it that I'm like I don't really you know I don't really know much about it and I've tried but you know it's different when you don't grow up in it yeah I think childhood informs so much about who you are and how you think whether you like it or not because you're immersed in that particular culture yeah my mom's record collection is what raised me so that's I'm And the musician I am because of my mom, in a way, which is funny.

30:44It is. It's amazing. But maybe I'm naturally musical because of my dad. Who knows? Yeah, it's like an amalgamation of the whole thing. It's a funny combo. It is. It's a brilliant combo. We're grateful for that combo. I'm just really grateful that I had a relationship with my dad, you know, eventually. And my sister's the best part. You know, we both grew up without siblings. So what age were you when you got to meet her and get to know her? I was 18 and she was 16. And she's a musician and we have so many parallels. She's an incredible musician. She's an incredible musician. And it's just, it's pretty great.

31:18So how was that? Growing up as an only child, essentially, to then you've got this sibling who, you know, does she feel more like a friend? How was that integration? I mean, I think we both wanted it so bad and we both were pretty open in the beginning that it felt sisterly, you know. and there's been periods where you know we don't see each other that much but it still feels pretty good I mean she's probably better at keeping in touch than I am the personality type you know but she's got kids similar age so it's kind of like we keep on these parallel lives so so nice it is nice I love her so much and how did you approach getting to know your dad it's quite a strange thing to have to do because yeah often not all the time obviously, but it is a given that you grew up with one or both parents.

32:10But knowing you've got a parent out there who don't know very well, where do you start? Well, it was hard because he was quite old as well, and he...

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33:44Visit Michaels in store or Michaels.com today to supply your next party. he couldn't hear the best i think he had an accident when he was a child even i don't think it was only from playing music um but he was very sweet very sweet very you know always like holding your hand and like you know it was a little bit more uh parallel sort of at the breakfast table like sweet moments but it was hard to get super deep at first because i didn't know how you know and in the sort of age hearing thing is not doesn't make it easier yeah but he was really sweet he loved watching movies so he always wanted to watch a movie and talk about the movie you know that kind of stuff so you feel like before he died you got to a really nice comfortable place as father and daughter i do i felt i felt very at peace and very thankful that he lived to be 92 and they had the time to do that, you know.

34:45And what was it like going from Texas to India? That's quite a culture shock as a child. What were your feelings around that? I mean, you must have been wide-eyed looking at such a beautiful, colorful country to visit as well. Well, he lived in California. He lived in California. Amazing. But I did go to India when they were there a couple of times, and that was wild. Yeah. Also because he was so, so famous in India. Yeah, that was wild. So I didn't really get the real slice of it, you know. But India's wild. I'd love to go back soon. Me too. I've only been once and I just loved it. I haven't been in about 12 years since he died.

35:22But, yeah, I want to take my kids there, but not until they're a little bit older. And I think it would be nice for us. Yeah. Yeah. It would be a lovely thing to just kind of soak up the culture. And I guess you get to feel close to him again in that circumstance. Or close to myself. Yeah. Just like, who is this part of me? I don't know this part of me very well. Yeah. Yeah, it's fun. It's a weird family story, but, you know, there's even more. Yeah. There's so much in there that, like, I would never be able to tell. But it's interesting and it's – I'm more comfortable talking about it now. In the beginning, it was just so hard.

36:06Yeah. And then I would shut down and then people thought that was weird. but really I just didn't trust anybody to represent it. Yeah, no, it's good that you know the truth. You've got to a great place of peace with all of it so you're able to talk about it now. I think the more you talk to people about families, all families are weird. Everybody's got a weird story. Yeah, every family. Totally. And you think yours is really weird and you talk to someone else and go, oh no, that's weirder. Yeah. That's much weirder. Yeah, but you know, my mom is, we're very close and she really, she's a single mom, raised me and that's really the biggest part of who I am.

36:42So it's always funny to talk so much about my dad, you know. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's really where it came from, though. I mean, your mom must be incredibly proud. Yeah, she's very proud. Wow. Is she quite a vocal proud parent or does she keep it to herself?

37:00She's kind of medium. She's not very impressed by, like, celebrity things. Yeah. Yeah, so, which is, I think, why I never ran towards that side of things. Yeah. So. My mom doesn't know who anyone is half the time. Yeah. She'll be really excited when I've, like, met someone from Coronation Street, which is like a soap over here or something like that, rather than it being, I don't know, it's hilarious, but it's good. Yeah, my mom's not that impressed, but she's super proud. I bet she is. Did she go to the Grammys when you won the Grammy back in the day? Yeah, she was there. Wow. I bet that was such a night.

37:31And my sister was there because she was nominated that year as well. Yeah, so it was a weird mix. And my sister and my mom met for the first time. Oh, wow. It was crazy. Yeah. That's such an amazing night. Yeah, it was really fun. I mean, that must have been overwhelming for you. It was. By the end, I didn't want to win because I felt embarrassed or something. I don't know why I feel that way. But it's funny. I watched the Grammys this year and I watched all these amazing women get up there. And I saw Billie Eilish get up and she was like embarrassed kind of. And I related to that. And then everyone else got up and they're so confident.

38:05People are so comfortable owning their accomplishments now. Women, I'm talking specifically. And I think that's great. But it's so different from how I was, you know. I know what you made. I feel embarrassed about loads of things. And sort of even owning job titles. I can't say that. That's outrageous. It's embarrassing. I don't know. It's so strange, isn't it? You want to self-deprecate. Yeah, yeah. It's much more comfortable to be self-deprecating than, yeah I'm this and I've just won this how amazing I know but I mean I respect it too it's it's interesting yeah I like how Billie Eilish goes about her business she seems super authentic I adore her she's so her voice is just magical too she's so good and I'm so glad that with a voice like that she does this weird awesome strange music and and she writes beautiful songs and she kind of can do anything i i'm loving seeing people grow and i can't wait to see where she goes and i already love what she does but like all these big women now these pop stars they've been around for 20 years and they've grown so much and changed and tried different things it's wonderful to watch people grow up yeah and i think people are really celebrated because they're being authentic and i guess the link between the other link between you and billy eilish is the fact that you do the music that works for you.

39:20You're not led by trend, which loads of artists are. They'll probably be quite open saying that because they've got to get the song on TikTok and they've got to keep up with what's going on. But, you know, you're doing something that you know feels right to you. Have you felt that pressure? You don't seem like the sort of person that would, but have you felt that pressure? Like, oh God, I need to make this sort of song or this sort of album. I've never really followed that, nor have I been around people who try to tell me to do it. That's a relief. Yeah, it's great. I'm lucky. Yeah, that's really good.

39:50Yeah. I also love your podcast. I listened to the episode with Dave Grohl. He's also been on here. Why is he the nicest man on the planet? I don't know, but he's a doll. How? Like, he's also in the biggest band on the planet, and he just walks in like, no big deal, just gets on with it. He's just a love. He's such a love. You just want to hug him. And you were playing with him. He was playing drums for a moment. I know. That was like my... Teenage dream. 12-year-old dream. Yes. I think Nevermind came out. So, yeah, I think I was obsessed with it and I used to air drum to it. And so he played drums.

40:23It was great. Oh, how amazing. Who would be the ultimate guest for you to sit and jam with? Probably Dolly. I'd love to have Billie Eilish on too. Billie! Yeah. But Dolly Parton for sure. But there's a million. I mean, the only people that wouldn't be a fun guest are people who aren't into the spontaneity of it. So pretty much anybody. I love PJ Harvey. And is it, I guess, a dream gig for you as well, just getting to sit and nerd off about music with someone who gets it at that level? Yeah, I mean, we were just talking about how this format is so nice because you can get in deep with people and it's intimate and you don't have to worry about soundbites and all that stuff.

41:08But it's so nice because in addition to just talking to people, I get to play these four songs with them. And it's a really, it's just like another way to have a conversation for musicians. And so it's really nice. And the talking part, I was a little nervous about, but it's ended up being really fun. And I feel like people open up to me in a different way than they would with a journalist. Yeah. So it's been really nice. As soon as you hear the word journalist, my vagina clenches. I don't want to do it. I love that. I'm terrified of them. Yeah. I'm terrified of them. No, it's true. I don't trust how they're going to take my words.

41:48Yeah. Well, you know, they just want the angle. And I think that's why podcasting is so gorgeous, because it is a safer space. And you know that whatever the circumstances for you, you've got that beautiful connection of music. This is just a random conversation, but it feels gentle. Whereas I think that old school press thing of, right, let's get to it. Where's the goss? Oh, it's horrible. And you can explain your thought rather than having a tiny soundbite. Is there anything that you've learned about a guest that's been surprising, or another angle you've seen of them because of that angle you're going in at?

42:23I feel like everybody, I come in pretty open and I feel like they do too. And it's been really sweet, you know. I have my sister on, my half sister Anushka, and that was the most special episode because we actually talked about her family a little bit, which I never do. Like even today, it's more than I've ever talked about that stuff probably. But it was really sweet and we got to play. So nice. And she's a great musician. And I, you know, it's just so fun. I feel like I've made friends doing this. Even Dave, I've known Dave for 20 years. But after we did this, I felt so much closer to him. And, you know, it's just a really nice connection.

43:05It's such a gift. It's so amazing. So after this extremely busy period where you're in the UK for a few days, you're talking about the album, you're going off somewhere else, are you the sort of person that then needs proper downtime? You want to escape quiet time, recuperate from the craziness? I really just need to see my kids. Yeah. That's really all it's about. I cram stuff in so that it's shorter, so that I'm not away too long. Yeah. It's just kind of a juggle. The juggle. Yeah, but it's fine. You know, I'm very busy this month and it's been a little tough on my kids, but I'm usually home.

43:40So I'm home more than most people who have to work nine to five jobs. So it's just it's a little bit of a sporadic thing. It's a different juggle. It's just a different juggle. It's still a juggle. I mean, I was up so late last night with my son who left his science project until day 14 of the 14 days that he had. Oh, that sounds like me as a child. Why? Why are we doing this still? Oh, no. They talk a lot. Oh, my God. It's just relentless. I know it's the worst, but they're great. They're great. It's fun because I get to take them on tour in the summers. Oh, wow. Yeah. So where are you touring this summer?

44:15I'm going to be in the States. Nice. Yeah, but that's always fun. Do they get what you do? They're starting to. Yeah. My kids have no clue. I feel like they never were interested in watching the show when they were on tour with me until last summer. really and they finally sat and watched like half a show and they didn't want to leave but they had to go to bed but um I think they finally started to get interested so amazing have they got can you see the musicality with them is that something they're leaning towards yeah it is but I try not we both try not to push them but they they take piano lessons they both were really excited and then they wanted to quit and I said well sorry it's our family language my husband plays piano too So I just said, sorry, it's the family language.

44:59We can take breaks when you get fed up and you're never going to quit because it's our family language. I love that. So I try to keep it more like that but not pressure. Yeah. But I want them to be able to take breaks from it because lessons can be tricky. But they go over to the piano all the time and write songs. So I feel like they're into it now. My son plays a piano and I love it. And I think more and more so I feel passionate about keeping him on track because he's 11. He's getting to that preteen thing. Please keep playing because with the world, the digital world and AI, I just think keep doing the thing with your hands, the creative thing.

45:35Oh, it's true. Yeah. My son is obsessed with AI. He's 10. Oh, it's terrifying. I'm so scared. He's scared, but he's also in love with the idea of it. So it's crazy. I think it's the greatest challenge for parents of our generation. It is trying to keep them bored. Yes. Like a little bit of boredom is where the good stuff happens. I agree. Yeah. I mean, same for us, though. If I could just get rid of my phone, my whole life would change. I know. It would be great, wouldn't it? Yeah, but I'm addicted. I'm completely addicted to it. But we all are. And let's be honest about that. We're all completely addicted to them.

46:08Yeah. So I'm trying really hard to, you know, have my moments. The good thing about playing the piano is you can't pick up a phone because you're using both hands. It is. But I never play at home. Do you not? Almost never. Really? It's weird. Is that because you just, like, I'm over it? I've been doing this for... No, I love playing whenever I'm in a zone or if I'm writing a song, I'll go over to it, but it doesn't happen. It probably doesn't even happen once a week. Really? Really. And so that's why touring is fun because I get in the zone and it's sort of good like that. I started surfing a few years ago.

46:42I'm not really good, but I just love bobbing out there with all the surfers. So nice. But I found that to be the ultimate, like, there's definitely no phone out here. So I like that. We've all got to carve out that thing, that place, that time where we're just being. It's really hard. It's really hard. It's getting harder and harder. Well, look, I'm so grateful to have this time with you today and to chat about all the brilliant things that you're doing. And as I said, I mean, I've listened to the album so many times this week, but I'm going to keep on listening to it. It is so comforting to listen to.

47:16Thank you. I'm just such a fan of your voice. So thank you for making another great album. Thanks for having me. Thanks for listening. Thanks, Nora. Oh, Nora, what a gorgeous chat. God, I love that. Thank you so much for taking the time out. I loved the phrase family language. That is one that's going to stick with me. That is piano for Nora's family. I wonder what your family language is. Ours is probably, well, I think it's creativity as a whole, but definitely art. We're all absolutely obsessed with making, creating, drawing, doodling, painting. We've got a whole cupboard full of art stuff and we're constantly getting it all out to make all sorts of weird and wonderful things.

47:55And it's a lovely time to stop, get off screens and chat as a family too. Nora's truly phenomenal new album, which I've listened to 85 billion times now because I love it so much, is called Visions and it's out now. Now, are you following us on Instagram? I blimmin' hope so. we do love chatting over there during the week so head over to at happy place official and of course i'll be back here this time next week do subscribe so you don't miss next week's episode but in the meantime huge thanks again to norah jones the producer anushka tate at happy place studios and to you because you are the best

49:06We'll see you next time.

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