Overthinking is my demon! Erin Doherty on changing old behaviour patterns

0:00Hello and Happy New Year! Oh my god, why does 2026 sound futuristic? I can't get my tongue around it. Welcome to Happy Place. I'm Fern Cotton and this is the show that stops the overthinking and gets everything out in the open. Today I'm chatting to Erin Doherty. Every experience is tinged with your approach because that's the very first note and colour of the canvas almost. So actually if you sort out your head before approaching anything, that's the general theme that will then seep into the rainbow that ensues. shoes. And you've always got that ability to just put the brakes on and go, are these feelings old stuff that I'm bringing to the forefront because we're creatures of habit and our brains are always lovely and trying to protect us.

0:48But is it just old stuff that I'm bringing to the plate that is not actually of use to me anymore? It's a new year. Hey, how are you feeling about that? I never know how I feel about this time of year. I mean, if you're listening to this in the UK, January, I was about to say January and February, but really it's January, February, March, April, sometimes May. The weather is absolute dog shit. So we have to really buckle up and get ready to quite literally weather those months. And there's not necessarily the option to just sink into coziness like we could before Christmas for some reason. It feels like we're meant to be like super motivated to do everything, but many of us are still just feeling that post-Christmas lethargy and we can't quite get into gear.

1:34Look, I feel like that. I just think don't worry about it. What are we in a rush to do and achieve? Let's just ease our way in. It's a new year. I definitely, saying that, do want to shed some old skin from 2025. I feel quite strongly about that this year that I want to enter this year with a little less to carry. I want to get rid of the things I know aren't working for me, simplify things and really lean into the stuff that makes me feel good. That's about as far as I'm going to go with any kind of New Year's resolution. Now, this chat I was particularly looking forward to because I'd actually met Erin before because she, I don't know how I managed to pull this off, but she narrated my audiobook for the novel that I wrote, Scripted.

2:29And, you know, I put that ask out with my wonderful publishers, Michael Joseph, hoping and praying that Erin might even look at it or consider it. But she said yes. I don't know how. I was such a fan of Erin playing Princess Anne in The Crown. I was at this point, obviously now I'm a fan of her in literally everything that she's been in, but I was so over the moon. So I went down to watch her record a bit of the audiobook. And the thing that is so magnificent about Erin's skill set is that she's unbelievably dynamic. She can change into a completely different character. She can do any accent you throw at her.

3:12And it's just the most mesmerising thing to watch. So God, lucky, lucky me. So if you're not into reading fiction, you like audiobooks, give the scripted audiobook a go because you get to hear her wonderful, ever-changing voice. Erin, of course, as I already said, played the young Princess Anne in The Crown on Netflix. Also so convincingly that I thought she was posh. So when I met her and she's like, all right, babe, like when I met her for the audiobook recording, I was like, what? I thought you were Queen's English posh. Also, of course, she was mesmerising in adolescence. In fact, she won a Primetime Emmy Award for that performance.

3:50And you can watch her in a thousand blows on Disney Plus 2. We had this chat towards the end of last year, just after Erin had been at the premiere for series two of a thousand blows, wearing quite possibly my favourite red carpet outfit of all time ever. And also therefore an apology that there's a little bit of Christmas chat in here because we were all getting very excited at that point about not working for a bit and chilling out. Okay, here we go. This is the show.

4:38We've already started. We're just talking about Christmas. Yeah. It's exciting. I could talk about it forever. I think when this goes out, it's not Christmas. I think we've done Christmas. But anyway, we love it. Who doesn't want to talk about Christmas? It's the greatest. The greatest. But before we get into any of this stuff, what I need to say to you, Erin Doherty, is that dress that you wore last night. You've seen it. Have I seen it? I've looked at a picture of it from every angle. It's the best dress that's ever been worn by a human. Do you know what I was saying? Do you know what I liked about it?

5:09It's like, yes, it looked very dramatic, but it gave me this like sense of security. I felt like I was wearing a hat, like at a premiere. I was like, you don't know what I'm doing behind here. I could be, yeah, it was fantastic. I felt like free. And also it was so like loosey-goosey down there. Heaven. So it presented as very, very like, ooh, statement. But I felt like I was in my pyjamas. That's what I love because I think for anyone that hasn't seen these pictures, this is from the premiere of Series 2 of A Thousand Blows and you're wearing this black gown that had this sort of lace shield.

5:45It stood up erect around your face like this and then trailed down the back. And I so know what you mean because obviously doing something like a red carpet is horrific. I'm sure some people enjoy it. I personally, I don't do it really anymore at all. But if I ever had to back in the day, I would come out in hives like horrendous. You want to feel comfy. Always. And it took me a long time to learn that lesson because obviously like there are so many elements that go into that thing. And you're like, oh, that person wants to show off that thing. And like the branding on it. And you're like kind of like you're wanting to make everyone happy.

6:17But actually, if you're not comfy, then it does show in the photos. And it sounds so cliche, but you also just don't have a good time. So I'm finally there when I'm like, how comfy am I going to be? like am I going to be sat down are we eating food let's go loosey goosey you've always got to think about these things you do you don't want to be uncomfortable like breathing in all night but just having a lace shield in life is maybe the way forward I think so I think so like my go to is always a hat or strangely like headphones because they're always kind of deterrents yeah yeah yeah do not talk to me the red carpet version is a lace shield you've absolutely smashed it you've worked it out I really thought I cracked the code I've done it.

6:58You've done it. And now you'll just see forever more just different colours of shields. Correct. On every carpet. It's your thing. Maybe I'm the shield lady. I think you are the shield lady. I'm like Sia. You're like Sia. But in reverse. Yes. It's not a fringe. It's a lace. What are we even calling it? Just a shield. I like the shield. The shield. Well, it looked fantastic. Was it a good night? Did you have a good time? It was. It was. I was there with all my best people having a great time. And genuinely, again, it sounds cliche, but that show was like the epitome of a family. Like we were on it for a year.

7:29We all just fell in love in a way. I love that. And so we were reunited last night and it was really lovely. That's so great. And obviously you did Series 1 as well. And during Series 1, you had a conversation with Stephen Graham who said, I've got this idea for a new show I'm working on. You were kind of in before the description of adolescence was even out there. I know. It wasn't called adolescence. it was just Stephen talking about a police car and the camera would follow this journey and it would get into the police station and you'd see it all happening and I was like, that's going to be great.

8:00And then we rap a thousand blows and a couple of months later, I get a voice note from him being like, pick up your phone. And I never pick up my phone just because I... Well, do I hate it? I hate it. If you're ringing me, I'm always just like, just voice note me or send me a text. I have a panic attack if my phone rings. Yeah. It's just on silent. Yeah, always. Do not disturb. Always. Always. So he was like, respond. and so eventually I did and he started speaking to me about adolescence and was like, would you want to be a part of it? And I didn't even read the script and I was just like, yeah.

8:27So it was, honestly, from start to finish the whole thing's been a whirlwind. I can't even imagine it. I mean, the last time I saw you you very kindly did the audio book of my novel, Scripted. Yeah. Which I'm still in shock that you said yes to that so thank you for doing that. But since then, you've been on the most insane rollercoaster. I can't even imagine what your life has been like for the last couple of years. But kind of similar, because I really distinctly remember having a chat with you. We were just kind of out. We'd done all the recording and we were just having a chat about, like, essentially the industry and being a bit like, I don't really feel like, I don't, like, yeah, it's very overwhelming, very overstimulating.

9:07And it's kind of, it took me a while to be like, I don't know where I fit into this thing. So, yes, this year's been really, really phenomenal and lovely. but at the same time I still just feel like me and like I'll go home and make dinner and, you know, make the bed and, you know, I'm very adamantly clinging on to like every ounce of humanity whilst being like, wow, this is great. But I just, yeah, I still don't really feel like that world is anything to get too sucked into. It's still a little bit nerve-wracking. No, and I don't think you should. I mean, you're clearly not going to because you're just a normal, amazingly grounded person, which is, you know, always the best in this situation where I get to interview someone.

9:51I don't feel like, oh my God, what can I say? What can I not say? Like, we're just two humans having a chat, but people do get sucked into that whole world and get totally lost in the vortex of it because it is enticing and titillating. And it's just everything all consuming if you get sucked into it. So I think you've got to be pretty sure of your values and what you want out of life to not be flung into that. I was going to say, I think that's exactly it. I think it's literally, it's kind of, because also there's a horrible thing that happens where sometimes people essentially say that's success.

10:24Yeah. Like if you don't jump in, you're not going to be successful. And that's the fear factor that I was always like, oh God, am I going to have to just figure out a way to swim in those waters? Because I love acting. I don't ever want to give it up. So is it always just going to have to be like a strange payoff? But actually I just don't want to buy into it. I just think, nah, nah. We just don't, we don't have to. Like we can just, like you say, we're all just human beings. That's what we connect with at the end of the day. That's why I think shows like Adolescents resonate so much is they're all just normal people on our screens and we're going, oh my God, like that could happen to me.

10:57So why would I want to take myself from normality when it's the most relatable thing in the world? Yeah, and it's where all the joy is, like in just the simple stuff like making the bed. I love making my bed. I do it every bloody morning. I wouldn't leave the house without making it. and I feel like, okay, I'm already achieving in my day because that has been done. Yeah. It's got to be done. And that's the tip top of the day. That's like, that's rule number one. Yeah. I love getting stuff done in the morning. Me too. And I'm smug all day and I'm like, you don't even know I've done the food shop.

11:25I've done my food prep. Bathroom's clean. Batch cooked. Don't you worry about it. Freezer full. I love it. Do you know what? It's so funny because I can remember having that chat with you. We were at Ebre at Penguin Random House where you can record audio books, amazing little studio there. And we had this really lovely chat. And I think at that point, you had not long just moved out of London and you were kind of like, I'm having a quiet time. I'm enjoying just being at home. So did it feel jarring or just full on to then be swept into all of this craziness? It kind of came at a really lovely time in my life.

12:02So basically, yeah, when we met, I had moved out because I just, I had hit my kind of peak stimulation. And I was just like, I was at a real kind of stopping point in my life. And my sister was like, come live with me. She lives in West Sussex. Like it's in, like, she's got walks on a doorstep. We could just like go out every morning whenever we wanted. And she was just like, Erin, come to me. Like that's, I love my sister so much. Like she is just my safety net, my best friend. She's just everything. and I lived with her and her fiance for a year and I just kind of reset and recalibrated and she completely brought me back to earth and was and made me feel like me again um and then after that I met my now girlfriend and she has always always lived in North London and so we just kind of like came to a place when it was like as much as I love getting on the trains and going to see and having days in London, I also want to wake up next to you.

13:00So it's like a natural progression. Like I'm such a romantic. I'm like, it's lovely, but I hate saying goodbye at the end of every day. Long distance is fun for about four seconds. Yes, I hated it. I'm so bad. And people say it's like a cliche lesbian thing, like where you immediately move in. And so like we were like, OK, maybe we just like we held on as long as we could. But I was like, I really think I should move in now. So I really, really did. I like tried to make it as, you know, non-cliche as possible, but I just love her. Yeah, too right. So I started at the start of this year. I moved in with her and then it's been like the craziest year of my life.

13:37I can't even imagine. I mean, both of those amazing women you just mentioned, you mentioned in your Emmy award winning speech. I mean, again, I can't even imagine being on that stage and the overwhelm of processing what's happening in that moment, trying to figure out what the hell you're going to say in front of all of these people. But it was a beautiful speech from the heart. Well, that was it. Again, I think I've kind of, whilst being overwhelmed, I've always got this little thing in the back of my mind that's like, just be you. Like, at least, because even if you say the wrong thing and for whatever reason, especially like in this moment of cancel culture, like you are always slightly terrified of saying something that will.

14:15But I'm like, okay, even if on some level I say something that someone will point a finger at me and I'll be like, I'm really sorry. At least I could always walk away and go, okay, but I was being true to me. And I do believe that I'm not a bad person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I've got to the point when I'm finally like, everyone has anxiety. Like everyone has those horrible voices that are like, you're awful. But I do think I can trust that voice now and just go, okay, I'm just going to be who I am. And hopefully that leads to good things. So it just popped up in the back of my mind when I got on that stage, that was just like, Erin, just be yourself.

14:48and I said what I wanted to say. I shouted at who I wanted to shout out and then I swore at the end of it and I was like, well, you know, if that's not Erin from Crawley, I don't know what is. So there we go. That is true, 100 % authentic Erin. There it is. And what did you do after? Did you celebrate? How did that night go? Well, randomly. So there's like, you all kind of go off and you have your pictures and it's like woo, woo, woo. But there was also, before we fully left, there was this random interview where I essentially did three shots of tequila in like the space of three minutes. I would be hospitalised.

15:20I was kind of like high on the win and also like on those shots. So I left the building kind of like floating. I had a discussion with a random person about being on RuPaul's Drag Race that I can't for the life of me remember what happened. What, to go on as a guest? Yeah. And you said yes. I want to be on it, yeah. I just remember, again, my girlfriend was there because she was like, we need to leave. And I remember being like, RuPaul, just absolutely loving on RuPaul. So like, yeah, just like in the thick of this tequila blur. Yeah. And then we got to the after party and I had a bunch of burgers and we danced the night away.

15:53Oh, it's perfect. Yeah, it was pretty great. What an amazing, amazing night. And also so deserved. I mean, we've touched on it a bit, but obviously adolescence has had this. And we had Ashley Waters on not long ago. This huge cultural, societal impact that I'm sure Stephen and all of you were hoping for. But you don't know that's going to happen. It's not a given. Oh, no. And also you don't kind of aim for it. I think like, again, kind of like the authenticity thing. Like if you're, if, if like accolades and recognition is the finish line, then you kind of, your eyes are on the wrong thing. So I think, and this is what I've learned like from Stephen Graham and Hannah Walters at Matriarch.

16:31Like they're just, they're the loveliest people in the world. Like, again, like it's, it sounds like it's too hyperbole to believe, but like they are, they are just the most generous people on the planet. but like their kind of ethos is always what story needs to be told like who are we talking to it's as simple as that and that was what adolescence was born out of and from my perspective like that's what was there every day of filming and when we packed up and said bye it was like oh what a lovely thing to have been a part of and you just left it at the door and then it just took on a life of its own but I think it was all bred out of just a sincere desire to to talk to people Yeah, that storytelling is so imperative.

17:14And when we were talking to Ashley, he he would go home and sort of crumble at his doorstep, like the pressure, the weight of that one take shot and the amount of dialogue. But not only the amount of dialogue, like the themes that you're facing, the scenes, especially that you had to act with Owen, being in that role with him. How did you are you good under pressure? I've come to think maybe I am. Or I think what happened really early on is like I'd seen Boiling Point and I'd seen like the style and I loved it so intensely. And I remember talking about it being like, this is going to be the best thing in the world.

17:52Like, because I've grown up doing theatre. I was like, that's just like the whole thing smushed together. So I didn't ever really approach it as this kind of, oh no, but if I get it wrong, then it's screwed. I was just like, oh, it's just a play. so I think it was actually a really good lesson in like every experience is is tinged with your approach because that's the very first note and like color of the canvas almost so actually if you sort out your head before approaching anything that's the general theme that will then seep into the rainbow that ensues I like that a lot you know I think what you've said there is incredibly important because even if you look at parts of our lives that aren't as intense as filming a hour-long show in one take you're so spot on you know you could approach whether it's like I don't know the school gates picking up your kids or going to the doctors with the worst anxiety and fear which I know sometimes feels out of control because we've all been there or with a sense of like oh this is a challenge or positivity and it does you're right it sets the tone for it yeah and you've always got that ability to just put the brakes on and go are these feelings old stuff that I'm bringing to the forefront because we're creatures of habit and our brains are always lovely and trying to protect us but is it just old stuff that I'm bringing to the plate that is not actually of use to me anymore and it's kind of I've I've like I'm such a massive advocate for therapy I did like six years and I just think it's an absolute game changer but it was like that was my kind of biggest takeaway of like being your own therapist almost is just going how am I feeling just checking in with yourself and it all kind of comes from it stems from self-love and giving yourself that time of going rather than blindly entering everything and being like and then assessing it after actually going how would I like to like move forward today and having that chat prior to and seeing what that does I've heard you talk before about overthinking being a bit of a demon is that still something that you have to reckon with yeah like and like you were saying I think I also have the thing of like oh god but everyone has their things I'm like I don't want to be that person everyone's oh yeah and now Erin's talking about her trials and tribulations but I'm like but everyone does everyone has their things of course we all do we do and in a way like that for me I love nothing more when someone tells me about this oh I love it like I love it yeah that's what I mean I'm like away going oh we're all in this together it's not just me I'm not just a freak yeah so that's how I like get over that hurdle of being like, get over yourself, Erin, and just talk about what you're going through at any given moment.

20:31And yeah, so basically my thing is just overthinking, thinking I have or I'm going to say something wrong, something that just doesn't need to be said. And people will all walk away and be like, yeah, but do you remember what Erin said? Or like, do you remember that thing that Erin did? And actually, again, it then goes one over and it's like, oh, but Erin, why do you think people even care about you that much? and then like it's just this multitude of like hate but eventually I I just have to get over myself and I'm just yeah I really but it's having good people in your life that you get to share it with that you're like oh yeah we all we all do do those we all do it my god I mean it's liberating I think hearing people like you say that people that we can all go oh my god they are nailing life right now but of course under the surface we have all got idiosyncrasies and things that we're dealing with and habits that we've been in probably since childhood I hear you on that one I've had it I'm feeling pretty all right at the moment but when my anxiety was particularly bad say sort of six seven years ago I would overthink or lay in bed at night and recall every conversation I'd had that day and go might they have thought that I meant that or did that come across badly or god I shouldn't maybe that was a bit clumsy and I would I wouldn't sleep for hours I'd be overplaying like live the whole day again at night time I do that I still that's what I mean so and what's also like I've had to just get accustomed to is accepting that some some moments in your life are louder than others yeah in that way and just going okay I don't know what it is for whatever reason but right now I'm I really have to just slow down and and hear it and go So I've learned to, yeah, like say, hear the sentences, really, really give them the time.

22:14Because I think the more that I ignore it, the more that it spirals and gets like. But yeah, I don't, I'm not sure that it will ever just fully disappear. No, I don't think, I think some of it's kind of healthy to have that level of self-analysis and self-awareness. I think when we know it tips into, oh my God, it's hindering my sleep. Or actually for me at times, it stopped me speaking altogether. I would just be kind of the mute one in the group. Yeah. Which, I don't know, might seem surprising because I love a chat. But at times I think, oh, I just don't want to say something that's going to rile someone or for someone to...

22:48Actually, I think my worst fear was to be disliked. I think that's mine. And I think, yeah. And so mine would go one further and I just wouldn't even go to the thing. Yeah. Oh, I stopped going out. I'd be stuck at home. Yeah, same. Yeah. And I'd tell myself that I'd want to be at home. But also on that same level, I'd feel trapped. Yeah. Because I'd be like, God, I really have not left this house in like a week or something. And the invites are there. And I'm just I'm I'm in this like place of absolute like gated. Yeah. Leave me aloneness. Yeah. But I don't think it was ever a true desire to be alone.

23:22I think it was a fear of being disliked. I was like, well, if I don't put myself out there, no one can dislike me. Yeah. I absolutely hear you. Like, honestly, I still now have to force myself to go to like social things. Yeah. And again, I will, if I put myself in that environment and there's people there that I don't know very well, I most definitely will get into bed and replay all of the things. And also because I know that my tendency when I'm nervous is to just chat. Like I will just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But that's so great. Like for people like me who do officially switch off. Oh, I can chat and chat and chat.

23:57If I'm really nervous from the get go, like, oh, I don't really know these people. I'll just, and then that's when I get home and go, I said, I told them everything about myself. I told them every detail of my life. And I don't know them. But I love that because then in my head, I'm like, I'm the one in the corner not talking. And I'm like, I told them nothing about myself. They think I hate them. They think I'm stuck up and I don't want to be there and they're not worthy of my time. Like I, so literally you can never win. Like that's the thing. And I've learned to just go, oh, all right then.

24:29Like have your moment in the sun. but you're not the main character here. Leave me alone. Yeah, and also, I'm trying to get to this point of almost exposure therapy, which luckily is readily available for me, where I actively acknowledge that there are people out there that do not like me. Because for all of us, there'll be people that go, oh, I don't like Happy Place or whatever. I don't like, oh, I don't want my cup of tea. It's very freely, these opinions are thrown around on social media, like we all know it. And the levels of discomfort, I think, are only tolerable if you've got your own back.

25:02And that's where I think I'm at now, where I'm like, do you know what? I've got my own back enough to go, I hear you, Andy from Bognor, but I still like myself, all right? That's so true. Do you know what I don't get either is that people feel like if you're in the public eye, that they can just lob those comments and it's not the same hurtful thing that any stranger on the street would feel. And again, but then it doubles over in my head and they're like, I say to myself, but then they'd be like, oh, shut. Like as again, like, it's just like you can never win. Like because then there's the whole kind of celebrity complaining about the being of a celebrity.

25:39And it's like, but I don't, it's not like I would like to be on your Instagram. I don't want to be there if you don't want to see my face. No. But it's just, we're in this culture of like, we have people that are famous or like in the public eye more. but for whatever reason that then means that you can hurl these things at those people and they've just got to take it. No, it's an impossible ask and also I think I used to massively gas up myself in those situations and go, you're not allowed to have any problems. You're not allowed to even acknowledge that you're struggling because people have got it so much worse and that's not helpful to anyone because it will come up, if you're suppressing that shit, it will come up.

26:19So actually it's much better to acknowledge it and go, yeah, I actually feel hurt, upset, rejected whatever it is and deal with it in the moment rather than go I'm not looking at that because I'm a celebrity thanks very much yeah it's an absolute minefield what a head fuck it really is but that like this is why it's so ultimately just airing it airing it babes airing it and this is a point where in your career you are going to now relentlessly find yourself in these strange situations like I'm sure last night you know you're walking a red carpet you've got your cast with you everybody's going Erin Erin wanting to chat to you taking your picture.

26:55How do you find, I guess there is a level of, especially the industry you're in, of fickleness, where it could even be directors, producers or other actors who didn't give you the time of day three years ago that are now they want to be your best mate. How do you deal with that? Again, I think I just kind of, because I am an introvert, like my circle is already so, so small and I love it. I love the people in my life. Like, and they're there for, for the rest of it. Like they are solid. They are, they're the absolute ride or dies. And so I kind of always have a little awareness of the kind of second bubble.

27:34And so I think because that inner circle is so solid, I'm kind of like, you know what? It's okay. Like it's more on, I've, I've put that on the other people of the people that swim in and out of the second or third circle, whatever they may do, whatever they would like, and they can be there and they can send those texts and it's no skin off my back to reply and to be like oh thanks so much la la la but I think because I've got this I'm kind of like I'm sorted like I just I I have my my dudes yeah and so I've learned to kind of go that's more for you and if you'd like to send send that message then that's lovely yeah but where have you been for the last five years yeah exactly so it's like it's fine it's lovely yeah I'm not gonna now but what a healthy way to approach that industry so I think I don't know how do you feel you would have reacted to being in this sort of environment with this level of attention and being seen by so many people I don't know 15 years ago I think I really think I I potentially would have thought about not doing it really yeah because I think I I and again like I have the voice in my head being like oh yeah yeah but I I only ever wanted to do this because I love the act of acting I really just love it like it's really lovely that people when you're in a play people come and they sit down and they watch it or when you're in something they're in their homes and they stick on their tv and they watch it but that's kind of secondary like I of course want to do stuff that speaks to people and reaches out and speaks to things that are really important and present in our current culture and climate but also just as an artist turning up to work every day and exploring a scene and sitting down with someone and looking in their eyes and being like how are we going to do this scene then I just love that like I could do it for the rest of my life and no one ever watched what I do and I'm happy what is it about is it escapism like what is that feeling that you're getting from it I think it's that like I think I I love people and I love the complexities of what it means to be a human being and I love the intricacies and the messiness and the darkness and the light I just love maybe it's a strange kind of way of easing the anxieties that I've got about about the complexities and just the disorder and like I could be this on one day and I could be that on one day.

30:03And sometimes I'm so confused by how I am in certain situations that through character exploration, I kind of allow myself the ability to be whatever I want to be or whatever feels right on any given day because that's the key to a good scene is just being present and letting it flow. And so I've then learned to apply that to being errant. is like, okay, this may not make sense to me right now, but it just feels right, so I'm going to do it. Yeah, how fascinating. Yeah. And do you think you learn specific things from the actual characters you're playing? Because, I mean, what we all know, but what I will say is that you are insanely talented at what you do.

30:46Like, you are unbelievably dynamic and can change, almost morph into an unrecognisable person. It's like, oh my God, that's Erin Doherty. Like, you're so fully all in. I'm imagining that you are sensing that character like you are part of you does become it that sounds fucking cheesy but I can see that that might be the case for you and that is my dream like the fact that you've said like thank you that is the dream that like if I could watch back my work and I'm not myself that would be that's what in my head I'm doing like I'm not rocking up like I want to get as far away from myself as possible whilst remaining intact with what makes this person a human being So it's a level of escapism, but also it's like a safety way of channeling these emotions or thoughts that I'm having or whatever.

31:37So I am in there, but the idea of transforming and having people go, oh my God, I didn't even know that was you. That's it. That's it. Again, that's the exciting thing of acting. And that's why I really, I really couldn't care less if someone knows that I was in that thing because I kind of don't want them to. So like I've kind of I've got this odd relationship with social media because I'm I it's it can invade your life and it's so addictive. But I will always make the time to promote the things because I'm like, I'm really proud of this piece of work. Yeah. So I get that and I get that's how I kind of use it.

32:22Yeah, so my work is kind of, it's escapism, but the kind of social media aspect is the way that I'm like, okay, no, I do probably need to promote this thing. Yeah, of course you want people to watch it. Of course, especially when you're proud of something. It's like, of course you want people to see that. It's a piece of art. And especially if you know it's going to either, it doesn't have to be as culturally game-changing as adolescence, but something like A Thousand Blows, something that the audience, you know that they can have that level of escapism and get lost in. It's like, that is what I need after work.

32:55It's just to like, I need to watch something totally unrelated to my life. I was going to say, like, I genuinely, I love watching Keeping Up With The Kardashians. I'm like, I am such a fan. Obsessed. Do you know who I've just had in here? Who? Chris Appleton, who is their hairdresser. Stop it right now. And he said to me that I have to bleach all of my hair and cut it to here and I'm doing it. Are you doing it? Yeah. Okay. Okay, Chris. He was like, this is just all too dark and I was like, I agree. I know. He was... I love... I love the Kardashians. I love them. Me and Amelia from Team Happy Place were just saying there's so many elements to it that are brilliant.

33:29One of them being other people's problems. Yes. Love. I... And I... And that's what life is about, right? It's like dealing with your own stuff and getting in the trenches, but then also just shelving it and being like, what's your stuff? What's Kris Jenner doing? I need to know what Kris Jenner is doing at any given moment in time. What face has she got today? Oh my God, doesn't she look great? She looks incredible. I know. I know. And also I'm kind of like, go you. Go you. For just doing it. Yeah, you're 70 and you're looking amazing. You're living your best life. Yeah. Did you, like me, waste about four hours looking at pictures of her 70th birthday online?

34:02No, what happened? Well, get ready to do that later. It's just like every famous person in their amazing house with like all the excessive flower walls and all the stuff you would expect from Kris Jenner. It's amazing. She is my fave. She is. We all aspire to be like her. I actually need to buy a tie and a suit because that's what I just want to be her. You should. I'm going to make it happen. Going back to you, as much as I love talking about the Kardashians, let's look, for instance, at Mary Carr, your character in A Thousand Blows. She is in an East London pickpocketing gang. You actually had to train to pickpocket, which I found a fascinating fact.

34:40What did you get from her personality, from maybe her conniving ways or her backstory that has taught you something about yourself? For me, Mary has given me just an unapologetic attitude to ambition. And I bloody love it. Because I think, like, as a woman, I'd kind of grown up feeling like you go after what you want, but you do it discreetly. Yep. Especially in England. Yeah. Or you talk about... Or you talk about... Yeah. Like, so... Because you're celebrated for your achievements, but it's always kind of got to be, well, that's a surprise. Yeah. Well, don't get too big for your boots. Yeah.

35:16Like there's always these weird little caveats to being a woman and being successful. And Mary Carr just doesn't buy into it. And I love it. So she'll literally like her brain is always worrying about where she's supposed to be, how she's going to get there. And it's like constantly a cat and mouse game, a chess game of, OK, she's just she's so razor sharp, intelligent. Yeah. But it's all linked to success. And I just think, why can't we all actually just sit down and go, what do I want? Okay. Okay. That's what I want. All right. Well, how am I going to do that then? Like, I just, I just, I really, really love the simplicity of, and it's okay for that to change as well.

35:58That's what I think also kind of slips into there is that, okay, you're allowed to chase something, but maybe just one thing. Yeah. Like, maybe that's your thing. So that's what you do and you don't deviate from the plan. But why? Yeah. Like, we're constantly changing. And she's a hustler as well, which I think, especially for a Victorian woman, was not the thing. No. So she's someone that is breaking barriers that people didn't even realise were there because it was so normalised and conditioned that women would just do as they were told. Yeah, that was her thing. She wore trousers underneath her skirts.

36:29And I love this about her because half the time, I wore them every single costume. I was always wearing them trousers. And half the time it would never be seen on screen. but for me the shift when they were on because that would be the first piece of item of clothing that I put on in the trailer and I was just like she's here there's something about like she just didn't like she didn't discredit or discard being a woman but I think she knew the boundaries that were there and just gave herself the tools to override them and I feel like we could we could still do with a bit of that oh my god without a doubt we all need to have our trousers on underneath whatever we're wearing all the time because well there's we still are fighting for just like general equality like it's still it genuinely blows my mind actually and that's where i think like it's that show is so phenomenally well done and it's like it is so striking and it is such a like time warp but also we're still actually fighting the same fights yeah and that's what again when I read it I was like I want to be a part of that like I want to be a part of putting them women on screen and having young women middle-aged women older women see them and go bloody hell they're impressive like I just think that's like too right like good on them right and they're all based on real people yeah which is fascinating I mean it's a bit of like a history lesson for you doing a show like this yeah I had no idea that they existed and most people don't like they just kind of went under the radar and I'm still genuinely flabbergasted that they've not been explored before.

38:07Like their story hasn't been put on screen or put on stage in any way. We've just not really spoken about these really, really intelligent women. Yes, they were criminals, but what was their other option back in the day? So like, really, like they're just ambitious women. And why has it taken till 2025 to put them on our screens? Yeah, we all know why. Yeah. You're at a place now in your career where you can pick and choose if we're like really blunt about it. You're not like hustling out there, please pick me auditions. You've got lots of options out there. And I'm imagining for an actor like yourself, storytelling is a priority.

38:46Like getting stories out there that you know not only you're interested in, but are going to maybe shift the dial or touch upon a subject matter that is important culturally. What would you like to explore story-wise that you haven't yet? I'm massively excited about the queer storytelling. Like I've not had a script through that I've been like absolutely leaping on top of. Like I need to be a part of this. Like this will never leave the clutches of my hands. Like it's just not come my way yet. Especially for women, no? Like we've seen some good examples like Heartstopper and even like realists like Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.

39:23Like there's some great shows. But for women, I feel like that's the big gap still. Huge gap. Like, it's just not there. Like, it's kind of been there in the backgrounds, but even so, it's kind of like, okay, you're like the gay friend or it's kind of, it's a bit tropey and it's a bit like, yeah, but who are these people? Like, what is their story? Like, what are the complexities here? And so that to me, in whatever context, whether it's TV, film, a play, anything, I want to tell the queer stories and I want to tell them like really, really well. And so that forevermore will be exciting to me.

39:58and again I kind of I really don't know anything like more to it than that so let's see what what that turns into but other than that I kind of love to be surprised and like we were saying I think it's also relevant to what's going on in the world like some something in the news could happen and all of a sudden that would be the most exciting thing or the most necessary thing that I'm like oh well where is that where's that thing and again that's kind of what I love about art is that it's always speaking to a truth yeah of some kind so there's that layer and and there's yeah the queerness but those are my two kind of like yeah they're great ones and is it important for you to push yourself to do characters that you think oh I don't know if I can easily reach that character or find out who they are yeah strangely again like for someone who overthinks and will question themselves, I think there's a safety in scripts that I'm like, okay, well, what's really going to go wrong here?

41:02Like, I think it's all about that relationship with the director and going, can we make something really exciting? Well, then I'm ready to jump off this cliff with you. And that's so thrilling. Like, I love it with a passion. Are you a bit of a thrill seeker? Strangely. Yeah. Like, I love a roller coaster. Yeah. Went to Thorpe Park for my birthday. Just me and my girlfriend. I love it. She stuck me in the car and I was like, where are we going? She was like, you'll see. She knows you well. And I was like, get me on that pirate ship. I was honest to God. The only one I regretted was Stealth. Have you ever been on Stealth?

41:34Is that the one that goes like that? Just straight up and down. I drive past it on the M3 all the time and I think, what lunatic is going on that? I did it on my birthday. The night before I'd had copious amounts of wine. It was not a good time for me, but I still enjoyed myself. I didn't want to say to my girlfriend at the time. I was like, really? Why did we drink so much yesterday then? Not today. God's sake. But I embraced it. It was lovely. We had little homemade sandwiches and everything. Oh, that's so sweet. Yeah, so I am strangely a thrill seeker. Yeah. I think, again, like there's a weird kind of within the confines of something that feels like there's a structure and I can just, I can settle in.

42:11Then I just let loose. Yeah. But something has to kind of be scary for me to chase it, I think. you can tell that and your roles are all so wildly different from Princess Anne to Mary Carr to your character adolescence it's like they could not they're like worlds apart yeah I think that's it like I just love people and I love kind of finding the beating heart in anyone like I do think we are there's always a way of kind of like fighting or defending your character and I really buy into that and I find it really exciting and where would you say your happy place is? I'd say my sister's house. I just love her.

42:48Like, honestly, she's just the best. She's just the best. So I'm going there for Christmas this year. Oh, fun. I can't wait. I really can't wait. I go there most years. And does she cook? Are you cooking? Her husband cooks. They got married this year, so new husband. So, yeah, we all lived together when I went and stayed with her. So, like, I love them both so much. But, yeah, Alan, shout out Alan. Alan. He's an amazing cook. Is he doing, like, really good roast potatoes? because that for me is the cornerstone of a good Christmas dinner. It's everything. I could just have a plate of them. Correct.

43:18Yeah, and the next day you kind of do, right? Yeah. So yeah, so I make him make twice the amount that we need. But he's really good. Oh, Alan, what are you? Everyone needs an Alan. Everyone needs an Alan. Where's everyone's Alans? That's why I go to my sister's because you bloody got us. Exactly. Go and borrow her Alan. Yeah. He can be my Alan. Oh, well, look, I hope you have a really restful Christmas for whatever is about to happen in your amazing life next. Just take that down time and lean it in. I hope you have a lovely Christmas. I will. I'm really looking forward to it this year. Just pressing pause and doing nothing and drinking wine and watching Home Alone.

43:56Yes. Is that your first Christmas movie that you watched? It's my favourite. I have to watch it. The others I'll be like, oh, I didn't see the holiday this year. I'm a bit upset about it. But Home Alone 1. Non-negotiable. Non-negotiable. It's happening. I concur. Mine's Love Actually. Oh, I love Love Actually. That's also a great one. I don't want to miss that either. It's a lot of TV to be watched. And potatoes to be eaten. Yeah. Erin, you are a legend and we love you. Thank you so much for being on Happy Place. Thanks for having me. Sorry, but what an amazing human. Like a global superstar who remains utterly grounded, delightful, unstarry.

44:37Just a brilliant human. and God, Erin, we all adore you. You can watch Erin play the brilliant Mary Carr in A Thousand Blows on Disney Plus from the 9th of January. And by the way, there was obviously an incredibly unsubtle hint in that chat that Chris Appleton will be on the show soon. You can hear that one in a couple of weeks and you are gonna love it. What a man. All right, back here next week. But in the meantime, a massive thanks again to Erin, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios and to you. Brilliant lot.