Paddy McGuinness: “I was drowning and needed help!” Raising autistic kids and clinical depression

0:00Hey, hello, a big welcome to Happy Place. I'm Fern Cotton and today I'm chatting to Paddy McGuin. live at the Happy Place Festival at Tan Park. I felt like I was drowning and I needed help and I wanted someone to throw me at like a lifeline and I thought, I need to speak about this because what was happening is I was going to work and doing shows, which is all jazz hands and no one had a clue what was going on so I found myself getting really wound up about things and I mean like, like nothing things and I was like, jeez, I need to talk to someone about this. How are you, gorgeous people? So look, I'm now, my kids are back at school.

0:42I feel like I can sort of start to rearrange my life after them being off school for like eight weeks. I'm sort of still trying to sort my house out, which just seems to turn into an absolute shit show over the summer holidays. So I'm reorganising things. I'm sort of doing a spring clean in September. I also just turned 44, which felt kind of big. I'm not even sure why. Maybe it's the fact that it's two fours stuck together. I've had quite a year, my 43rd year. So now I'm sort of entering a new year thinking, right, new chapter, new era, what's going on here? Yeah, I'm just trying to sort my life out.

1:23I'm also editing a new book and that is taking up a lot of my time and headspace. So I feel a bit all over the shop, like things are still quite chaotic, but I'm hoping as we canter through September that I can really start to feel a little bit more organised in the head and practically and a little bit more sort of grounded, I guess. Also, change of a season. I love going into autumn. I always think I'm going to hate it. And then I get to it when all the leaves are all golden and start wearing chunky knits. I fucking love it. I can't wait for autumn. now I know loads of you were massively excited when you saw that Paddy McGuinness was on the Tatton Park Festival lineup he is a legend of UK TV but we actually got quite deep quite quickly during this chat so we talk about all things what I love about this chat is Paddy you know before Paddy did comedy he worked on building sites like he's he's had quite sort of a laddie a laddie time he's a working class lad from up north brought up by a single mum and we need more conversations on mental health with blokes.

2:25And I don't want to say the word blokes in a sort of derogatory way. I just want to use it to describe the sort of men that we want to be engaging with Happy Place, that we want to come to the Happy Place Festival that feel like it's not for them. Because I don't think that wellness has to be kind of woo woo or weird or out of the box or just for women. It's simply about feeling all right. And Paddy does an exceptional job in this conversation at talking about his mental health in a really beautiful, eloquent way that is so inclusive to everybody. And I just love this chat. I really loved it. So we talk about his mental health and depression.

3:01We talk about him being diagnosed with clinical depression and the benefits of therapy. And we also talk about his children being diagnosed with autism. He's so honest so open in this chat um obviously hilarious as well we sort of swayed between laughing our heads off and you know really thinking deeply about things i just adored it this is page de sorbo from giggly squad boost mobile gives you the same network coverage speed and service you're used to just at a more affordable price why pay more if you don't have to Offering reliable nationwide coverage backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee.

3:43Love your service or get your money back, no questions asked. Visit your nearest Boost Mobile store or head to BoostMobile.com to learn more. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers who cancel within 30 days of activation will have Boost service fees refunded. Activation fees, if applicable, and phone payments will not be refunded. Save up to 30 % on fall meal essentials during the Spice Up Fall event. Now at Whole Foods Market with sales on organic honeycrisp apples and winter squash. Grab fresh and mild swordfish steaks for a cozy pan seared main. Or make a hearty stew starring no antibiotics ever short ribs.

4:24For something sweet, indulge in limited time pumpkin spice treats from the bakery and find even more in the aisles. Spice up fall and save at Whole Foods Market, in-store and online. If you're a smoker or vapor ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zinn Nicotine Pouches, you'll discover many good reasons. Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand. Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction. But there's only one Zinn. Check out Zinn.com slash find to find Zinn at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine.

5:04Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows home so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin? Or what that clunking sound from your dryer is? With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today.

5:30Right, let's get to the Tatton Park Festival tent. Here's the show.

5:56Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello! Hello, Pat! All right, are you okay? Come and have a sip. Oh, hello, everyone. I've seen the most northern thing ever when I walked in here today. It was five ladies lay on their back doing yoga in the rain. Literally getting wet through. We paid our money. We're enjoying it. It's so good. I know. Have you done yoga before, Paddy? I've not, but I want to get into it. Yeah. I'm told, because I'm 52 now, you're not. I am. And I'm told flexibility is key as you get older. So that is the one that I'm going to start having a look at. But there's loads of different ones.

6:42There's all sorts of yogas. There's like hot yoga. Which one have you done? You must have done loads. I like vinyasa yoga is the one for me. It's like very flowy, fluid yoga. I think you'd like that. Right, okay. Yeah, but I definitely, definitely need to work on the flexibility. I'm knackered. Yeah, well, it is. It's harder as you get older. Of course it is. Can you touch your toes? I don't think... Give it a go. Let's try. I can sort of... That's about my limit. Oh, come on. Yeah. Not bad going. Just... Just realise. We've not paid our money for this. I think that's not bad. Yeah, it's all right.

7:20Not bad at all. I mean, we're up your neck of the woods, so this is perfect for you, isn't it? It's brilliant. This is 25 minutes from my house. Love it. And Tatt & Perk, because I bring the kids here, it's a brilliant place. They've got all the farm at the top. They've got a brilliant playground over there and what have you, so it's handy for us. Since our last time I was here, I did an outdoor show with Lee Francis, who's Keith Lem, and we did the movie show live here, and it was brilliant. So it's always good up here. Everyone always comes out and gets behind you. It's so nice. I mean, as you can see and as you've experienced watching people doing yoga in the rain, it's a big celebration of wellness, which I think is no more complicated than just simply feeling all right, feeling well.

8:05Do you feel well at the moment? Yeah, I do. I mean, the usual stuff, you know, some days you wake up and you feel like a million dollars and other days you feel like crap. You know, like we all do, depending on... I mean, last night, my youngest, Felicity, had a toothache. So I was up all night. And then I got back from a show this morning, and she's feeling better now, but her friend's at the house now. So all I had all morning was I'm known as Felicity's dad in the house. Felicity's dad, will you do this? Felicity's dad, will you do that? So now as I'm here, I'm going to stretch this out. Okay.

8:47This is going to be the longest podcast ever. Because I don't have to deal with being Felicity's dad for a bit. Do you want me to call you Felicity's dad during the chat? Is that helpful? That would be odd, but yeah. Well, look, we're so happy to have you here, even on No Sleep At All. Yeah. I know you've been on your own sort of... I don't love the word journey, but you have been on your own journey with your mental health. Yeah, I think it's a strange one, because where I was brought up in Bolton and the life I had before, you know, you become a celebrity, if you like. I've done loads of different jobs and very male-dominated, you know, building sites and engineering places and all that sort of thing.

9:35And it genuinely was that kind of, no one ever spoke about anything. And I think, you know, when I speak with my mates now, I've noticed those lads who were all still in the building game and, you know, that sort of like real macho kind of appearance, they have 100 % changed. They speak differently now and they talk about things a bit more openly and it sounds like, you know, sometimes it's a little bit saccharine saying, you know, you should talk about it, you should open up and what have you. But when I first ever went to therapy, which was, God, about four or five years ago, I honestly felt like, God, I wish I'd have done this sooner.

10:23It's like a weight off your shoulders. I don't know if anyone's ever been to anything like that or, you know, where you're sort of sit in front of a complete stranger, really. And you're telling them things that you just wouldn't tell your best friend. but it's really cathartic and it's um i definitely recommend it it changed everything for me just just to offload stuff and get get an opinion that isn't biased you know because your friends if you offload to your friends and they'll go they'll side with you a lot of the times don't they go oh you're right yeah and this is that's the problem yeah it's not you or whatever it might be but I found that the advice I was given and just talking, it just really opened my eyes to a lot of things.

11:10Even when I'm out in the car, you know, and we've all had it where someone cuts in front of you or whatever and you... But even that, you know, just... I look at that differently now. It's... You know, I'm not perfect. I don't walk around every day sort of like smelling flowers and, you know, in long white robes and what have you. But that is the sign of a sane person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very much so. Yeah, but, you know, I just kind of look at things differently. No, I totally hear you. I go to therapy every week. I wouldn't miss it. I love it. I don't know about you, but I found one of the most helpful things was someone validating how I was feeling.

11:52Because I would always go, oh, no, don't be upset about that or don't be angry about that. You're really lucky. you know you love your job you've got your kids you know I would sort of suppress things because I thought I shouldn't be looking at it which is actually the opposite of true we should be feeling our emotions and go yeah I'm really angry about this and not to stay in that emotion but to recognize it at least that that for me was really helpful yeah I also think when you understand something it's uh easier to realize you don't have to react a certain way you know I realize I'm probably going to lose about 80 % of the room here, but I'm going to talk about golf.

12:31Right. But it's like, when I first started playing golf and I was rubbish at it, and I hate this game. And then I got a few lessons. When I understood, it didn't make me any better. I was still rubbish, but I understood why I was rubbish. And it made me just enjoy the game, even though I still couldn't do the shot. Because I knew why that shot wasn't going right, I just started enjoying it more. And that's literally therapy for me. So it's not as though all your problems are going to go away, but you can look at them in a different way and sort of react differently. Yeah, I've never weaved golf into a mental health chat before.

13:08I enjoyed that. No, no. Yeah, welcome to the north. So good. But I totally understand what you're saying. A lot of the time we don't know why we're reacting in a certain way. We have no clue why we're angry constantly about the same thing or triggered by something. And I think getting to know yourself as you get older is so important. It is. And I think, you know, with social media now and you look at the world and what's going on, I think we're sort of, we're open to more things now. We see more things. When I was a kid, you know, in our house with my mum in Bolton, you kind of, there was like the mirror and the sun.

13:48Those were the newspapers that were in the house. So that's kind of the world, really, what you saw in the news at 10. And for me growing up, you know, I never took any notice of any of that. But no, whether you sort of keep an eye on the news or not, you're sort of bombarded by it. It can feel like all encompassing. It can feel like everything's negative and everyone's against each other and everything else. And that's why I love anything like this live. And even when I'm touring doing, say, stand-up, people on the whole are all right. And when they get together, you know, we have a nice time.

14:24You see people and you chat and what have you. And kind of, I feel as though it's quite an optimistic view, but, you know, you can get in your car and drive home and there's no one sort of purposely running you off the road. And, you know, there's like oil drums on fire. And, you know, we're not there, but it feels like that sometimes. It feels like we're all against each other. but actually people kind of get on most of the time. Oh, my God, I've walked around all weekend. I've met only lovely people. There are no dickheads here. I've done a survey. I've done a survey. There are none. Stick around till after 10 o 'clock tonight.

14:58Puffs start closing. Yeah, exactly. No, it's so lovely. I mean, you've talked about this publicly, but you were diagnosed with clinical depression. Yeah. How did that change things, having a label to it? Um, firstly, a shock, because I think with depression, personally, you know, you don't realise it. It's sort of people around you, your friends and your family, who kind of, well, you're not yourself today, or you're reacting a little bit differently. And me, at the time, when it started creeping into your own, my children were, Leo and Penelope, my first twins, were diagnosed with autism. And that was a lot to take on and to sort of compute.

15:43Because before you have children, this is me speaking as a bloke, you have an idea in your head of how it's going to be. So, you know, on the park, a game of football, or you're going to go here and you do that, you do this. and all that, all of a sudden, all changes. So I didn't realise how much that started creeping into my mind and just how upset I was at the time and not being able to deal with things and what have you. So you throw yourself into work and, you know, like most people, you think, oh, I've got to provide for my family and I've got to try and get as much as I can now because, you know, these children are going to need as much support as possible.

16:30But at the time, thinking financially, you know, but obviously we know that isn't the answer to everything. And then it slowly must have just crept up on me. And again, I didn't realise it. And it was talking to me ex-wife one day at home and we were talking about therapy and what have you. And again, for me, I was like, oh, it's a therapy, I don't need that. You know, but we sorted it out and I went to the Priory, actually, which is because a lot of people think of the Priory as a sort of, you know, they deal with alcohol addiction and drug addiction. But they do loads of stuff at the Priory.

17:12And I went there and started talking to this therapist and it was kind of all right, but didn't really work for me. And this is another thing I say to people when they're thinking about doing something like that is it's not a quick fix. The person you're talking to might actually be the world's best therapist, but they're just not right for you. So I saw two different therapists and I thought, I'm wasting my money here. And then it was one of those, someone got in touch and went, there's this guy at the Priory and he said he'll see you. and I was like, oh God, all right, I'll give it a go this last time.

17:52And honestly, after that first hour, I felt just light. I felt like I got so much off my chest and, you know, talking about my children and autism and my life and there's no two ways about it. The job that we do isn't a normal job, you know what I mean? So coming from a working class background and now I've been brought up, to people recognising, you know, because you see all the good trappings, you know, a nice car and house and all that usual things when people, you know, do well. But everything else, I'd never, ever had any sort of advice or help with that. I just kind of got on with it right from Phoenix Knights, really.

18:37So there was a lot that had built up in my mind. And like I say, that guy, Dr. Shire is called, if you ever want to go to the prairie, he's amazing. but he was brilliant. And I saw him consistently once a week for about, oh God, probably about six months. And in the end, I remember him sort of going like, not you're okay now, but he's like, you know, let's make it once a month. And I was like, oh no, because you're my mate now. I actually look forward just to seeing him and having a bit of a chat and what have you. And now, what's brilliant with Dr. Shire is I'll just WhatsApp him now and again.

19:21And I'll say, you know, how are you doing? Are you all right? He'll go, yeah, you're okay. And he'll go, do you want to come back? And I'm going, oh, I'm all right at the minute. But if I do, I'll go in and see him. But because I can manage it now a little bit better, you know, it's nice not thinking I must go. It's like if it's there, I can go. So do you know when you're headed towards a bad patch? Can you feel it happening? Are there signs? I suppose, you know, you can probably be irritable, but you don't realise that. So I sort of think to myself, I might be in a situation and something will happen.

20:01It's not anything major, but I'll think to myself after, I could have handled that a bit better, you know what I mean? And it won't be anything like, say, a big situation, But just to me, I think, why have I done that like that? Or why have I sported like that when I could have done it like this? And that's when I start thinking about it. But because I recognise it, I can figure it out myself these days, you know. And how do you do that? Because, you know, like you touched on a moment ago, our job isn't conducive to good mental health. Shock, horror. It's like it's not normal. And you are dealing with a lot of outside opinion and there's not much room for error because everyone's straight on you.

20:38How do you navigate all of that well? Well, you know, these things still surprise me now. When we talked about social media before, so there's this thing now called clickbait. So you'll see a story online about someone that's really sensationalised, and when you click on it, it's usually nothing. Nothing, yeah. And that's become a thing at the minute, but because of everything with the therapy and doing stuff over the last few years, I can smile at that now. Like, for instance, this is a true story. A couple of weeks ago, so I do a show on Radio 2 every Sunday morning, 11 till 1. And there's a little car park at the studio, so I park my car, I get out, pay for a ticket, put it in my car, walk into the studios, right?

21:22Now, unbeknownst to me, there's a paparazzi taking photos of this. The mail online then put it straight to the line and go, Paddy McGuinness looking glum. Brilliant. Now, who pays for a parking ticket like that? It's the biggest head wreck ever. And that's where you go, what? You know, I'm paying for a parking ticket. That's sad. You know, I remember I was driving the car once and they took a photo of me in my car going, looking serious. I'm like, I'm just driving to the shop. Navigating a roundabout. In fact, if I see someone behind the wheel of a car like this, I'm avoiding them. Yeah. Worrying.

22:08But that is one of the mad things now with the job. And it's turning so quickly where, you know, because obviously things like online news outlets, it's all about making money and they get money by clicks. But stuff like that, I think, even two years ago, would have absolutely drove me mad. But now I just, like, I can just have a laugh about anything. Oh, clowns. Yeah, clowns. It's the only way. Otherwise you'd drive yourself absolutely mad worrying about what everybody's thinking and talking about. And it's just absolutely maddening. Yeah. I mean, you mentioned this a moment ago. You made the most beautiful documentary about autism involving your children.

22:47And I mean, it was shot beautifully too because you've kept your children completely private throughout the whole process but managed to talk about it so intimately. And I think it's obviously been hugely helpful to so many other families out there, people navigating it. When you first had that diagnosis for your twins of autism, I know you said you were scared of the word, scared of the subject. What was it that scared you? Well, it's having no idea what it was. You know, I'm like most people. I was brought up, you know, I was born in 73, kind of had my A day in the 80s. And in the 80s, the only thing about autism that I remember, which would be formative years, was like the film Rain Man, which makes out all autistic people just go to casinos and are brilliant at gambling, which is obviously complete bollocks because I used to take my son to the bookies every Saturday.

23:39No, no, no. But it's a... So you kind of have this idea of what it is, which is nothing like what it is. So dealing with all that, which is a lot for any parent, and then having the therapy and understanding it and just learning more and more about it. That documentary, when we discussed doing it, it literally took to make probably about four years. Really? Because from the initial thought, I felt like I was drowning and I needed help and I wanted someone to throw me at like a lifeline and I thought, I need to speak about this because what was happening is I was going to work and you're doing shows, which is all jazz hands, and you're dealing with management and different things, and no one had a clue what was going on, so I found myself getting really wound up about things.

24:37And I mean, like, it sounds very Mariah Carey, this, but it's like, you know, if the car, what was supposed to be taking me somewhere, wasn't there. Like, nothing things. And I was like, jeez, I need to talk to someone about this. So the idea of the documentary was really originally to try and get some help. And then as the years went on, and I've always got me children's, it's not up to them that we're doing a documentary. So we're conscious of bringing that into their life. So that's why we both chose never to show the faces. But we felt they had to have a presence in that documentary because, you know, this is what we're talking about.

25:24But what I found, and even to this, Luke, I were walking around there earlier on before I saw you and a couple stopped me, you're probably in the audience now, who asked me, oh, they're over there, hello there, hello there, who said, you know, their child's autistic and they were talking about the documentary and what have you. Now, that's all those years later. So I feel as though kind of like it feels like a little bit of community of mums and dads helping each other because that's what it's all about, regardless of what's going on in your life. If you can help each other out, it's a godsend.

26:01And again, for me, speaking about it publicly, it was a chance to show all my friends and family all those times my mates ago. Oh, he never comes out. Or why are you not going here? Or we're going doing that. and you're that person in your group who's the miserable get, you know, not want to do anything. But it was almost like going, Luke, this is why now. I can't just do that. This is why I've not had you over at the house because I'm dealing with things and things have to be done in a certain quiet calm and peaceful. No, no, my kids know, flipping heck, like the house is absolute chaos, but in a good way, you know, because when they were first diagnosed, I was like, grab everything quiet, and we've got to do it a certain way.

26:48But anyone with children with autism will know every child with autism is different. Of course, yeah. So it's not a one thing is good for everyone. And now, weirdly, it just doesn't even come into my head anymore. You know, even if, like, my youngest, Felicity, you know, has a meltdown or anything like that, it kind of like years ago before documentary and therapy and everything, And I'd be like, I can't cope with this. I need to escape. I cannot deal with this. To know, it's like, I couldn't give a monkeys. You know, it is what it is kind of thing. You know, even when we're out on the boat and what have you, we just, we went to Minarca a few weeks back.

27:31And even that now, when we were coming back on the plane, I was talking to Christine about it. I was going, can you believe we do this now? because going to an airport with children with autism... I mean, listen, anyone with kids, it's stressful going on holiday anywhere. Oh, it's a bloody nightmare. It needs a new... It shouldn't be called a holiday. No, no. It's not a holiday. No, not at all. Give it a new name. Not at all, yeah. But, you know, you can times that by 100. Yeah, yeah. So this is why things like the lanyard scheme, it's amazing, that scheme. You know, when you're at an airport and you've got your lanyards on and your children have got your lanyards on, hidden disabilities, it's so good to see.

28:16It's heartening. And that's at both sides, you know, when we're coming back from Spain and what have you. But like I say, when they're on the plane now, you know, like most kids, they've got a bloody iPad or the phone or the colouring or whatever. And all those stresses and anxiety, I don't even think about now. And like you say, you go, God, how far we've come. But that's, you've got to put a lot of work in. Of course. But if you do that with any child, you're going to reap the benefits later on any year. And I guess because you feel like, you know, you've talked about this publicly, there is a community out there.

28:49There are parents that want to have this conversation. You don't feel so alone in it. I think that's the issue with any scenario in your life where you feel like this is just me going through this. No one gets it. Now you've got, you know, a whole group of people that want to have a really great conversation about this subject. Absolutely. You know, even amongst my own friends as well, you know, we talk about things and they'll ask me questions, you know, and it's really refreshing. But even now, like the couple over there and online people will message me and go, you know, watch your documentary.

29:24We do this now, you know. It's a shame in this country sometimes it's a little bit of a postcode lottery with what helps available, what helps not available. And that's whether you're private or not. Yeah. So that's a shame. That would be nice to change eventually. But just talking about things and knowing you're not on your own, you're not that one person who sat there, you know, in tears, not knowing which way to turn. You know, other people have been in that exactly the same position. And it's just nice knowing people have got your back. Yeah. What do you think the biggest misconceptions about autism are?

30:05Well, I think sometimes, you know, talking about meltdowns, so don't confuse a meltdown with a tantrum because comparing a meltdown to a tantrum is like comparing a candle to an oil rig fire, right? They're two different things. And what used to happen sometimes, if that happened when we were out and about, people would look and think spoiled or bratty, you know, because they wouldn't understand. And I used to get so wound up because I'd want to go, no, actually, what's happening here? But you can't do that, you know what I mean? So I think that's one of the biggest ones for me where people presume they're just being spoiled and just kicking off, you know what I mean?

30:54And it isn't the case. Yeah, because you have to bear in mind the sensory element to, you know children that are neurodivergent everything feels different and that means that you know coming to something like this or going to the airport you've got to put prior thought to all of it I remember being with my little lad uh he was only about four at the time and we'd stopped at a motorway services and he wanted a wee and we're in the toilets and uh someone just turned the hand dryer on and my son absolutely lost it you know and that's one of those things were So I felt myself getting annoyed at the person who put the hand dryer on, but it's totally not.

31:31He's just drying his hands. So that was another thing to kind of think, you can't go out and presume everyone knows everything. You know what I mean? It's just never going to happen like that. But again, with my son, what I'd do is I'd explain what it was. And luckily I can make my kids, we usually have a good laugh, and I can try and make something funny. and now if we go out and we're in a public bathroom or anything at all and someone's put the hand dries on it literally isn't an issue anymore yeah but if i'd have gone to him that's never going to happen again and it wouldn't have benefited him so it's not a case of like um you know if you're scared of flying like you must get on a plane it's you know slow baby steps but you can get there with it yeah exactly and it's finding the coping mechanisms that work for you as a parent and also then the ones for the kids that enable them to navigate it all as well if you're a smoker or vapor ready to make a change you really only need one good reason but with zinn nicotine pouches you'll discover many good reasons zinn is america's number one nicotine pouch brand plus zinn offers a robust rewards program there are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction.

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33:35Save up to 30 % on fall meal essentials during the Spice Up Fall event. Now at Whole Foods Market with sales on organic honey crisp apples and winter squash. Grab fresh and mild swordfish steaks for a cozy pan seared main or make a hearty stew starring no antibiotics ever short ribs. For something sweet, indulge in limited time pumpkin spice treats from the bakery and find even more in the aisles. Spice up fall and save at Whole Foods Market, in store and online. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows home so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin?

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34:29It's so much to take on. Like you said earlier, dealing with your own mental health alongside this, it's a lot. Like most people that have come here, we've all got stuff going on in our lives, things that we're dealing with in our heads that nobody else knows about. You've also got this extraordinary job, and a lot of it is about entertaining other people and making them laugh. Does that, or has that at periods felt jarring, that you're feeling like shit and you've got to go out and make people feel happy? Yeah, I remember when that really kicked in, probably at the back end, last probably two or three series of doing Take Me Out, which is obviously a big Saturday night dating show, a lot of fun, party atmosphere.

35:14And sometimes I'd be in the dressing room literally dealing with something on the phone at home and stressing about it. And I think your mind's a powerful tool. It makes everything worse. You know, every problem's magnified a million times and I would always murder her going, worst case scenario with everything. And then you go out there and you do the show and you come off and I'd be knackered because I'd mentally burnt out. But again, all those little things like I spoke about before, they all helped depression come to the front. They're all little chinks in the armour that were slowly being eroded that I didn't realise.

35:57But again, on the positive, the job is brilliant for them talking about things because you're going to reach more people. And you're going to sort of make more people aware. So I take the positives out of things like that now. Yeah, it's great. Because it is quite draining. I remember when I was on Radio 1 and I was having a bad mental health blip. And I just knew I had to sort of click into acting somewhat. I don't feel like I have to do that in this space. If I'm feeling great or not great, it's sort of irrelevant. Because we'll talk about it anyway. We'll be honest about it. But there's no room to do that on the radio.

36:32No room to do it as a stand-up. Or if you're doing a TV show. you do have to switch it on. And then I think you've got to watch your energy levels. You know, it's so tiring to keep acting all the time. But, you know, it's part of your job. You have to click into it. Yeah, and I think, you know, obviously I was talking before about social media and there is a lot of negativity with social media. But also, again, not everyone's bad on there. And it's great for reaching people as well. So, and now we're in a space and time in the world where you can go online, you could totally go online and go, I've had a really bad day today, and put it out there, and you'll have loads of people getting in touch with you, people who've had a bad day get in touch with you, and then people get in touch with them, and that's what's lovely about social media.

37:22There's still more good than bad, even though it doesn't feel like it at times. Yeah, no, I agree. And what do you do just to keep yourself mentally feeling well? Are there non-negotiables that you have to have in place so that you can be the dad you want to be, go out and do the job and really, really enjoy it? Gin, mainly. Gin or gym? No, no, it's definitely gin. No, I don't... I think all my life, weirdly, even though this job I do is a real sort of... You're out there and you're in front of people all the time. I've always been, right from school, really shy. Like, really shy. If I used to be five minutes late for a class, I'd never go in.

38:11I couldn't bear the thought of walking through the door and everyone looking up at me because I was late. It just used to drive me mad. And now, I've sort of, after God, however long it's been, I've been doing this for a living, well over 20 years, I've finally got to the stage where sometimes I feel as though I don't have to do things because of my job. So, you know, whatever, you get invited to a cinema premiere or a red carpet, I'm like, I cannot be arsed. Never. I am happiest on the couch. Same. Ice road truckers, lovely. Is that your thing? America's toughest prisons. What jolly viewing. Well, I'm not there, so that's good.

38:56But I just love being at home. I love being around my kids. I've got to sometimes do things to get myself out of that because I've come a bit too insular then. Yeah, me too. But I do love, you know, being at home. It's amazing. I mean, we're selling these socks here that say on them, Happy Little Hermit, because that's what many of us are. I love being a little hermit at home. Yeah, oh, I love it. There's nothing better. Especially at winter, fire on, telly, one of them to the outside world. Absolutely. My addition to that is shut the door, that's the world TV on, bra-ro. Yeah. Oh, that is the best feeling ever.

39:36Unrivaled feeling, everyone. Me too. Yeah, love it. No one wants to relax an underwired bra. No, no, no. God, no. But fitness has come into your life in quite a big way, hasn't it? Yeah. Do you know, it's funny a lot when you do stuff. I'm not a person who's up in the morning weighing out, you know, an ounce of mung beans. and, you know, and making sure my water's at a certain temperature. I kind of feel as though, you know, if I have, like, for instance, yesterday, my cousin came over with her husband and my brother and his wife and what have you, and I literally got, like, a big Greg's in, big Greg's shop.

40:13Yeah. Every steak bake you can think of, cakes, everything. Great. Yeah. So tomorrow, though, I'll be like, right, a bit more sensible. So that's how I look at everything. You can have a bloat, you can enjoy yourself, but it is about balance. But it's only since I did that Children in Need Challenge, and that was so physically exertive that, weirdly, when I stopped that challenge, Sir Chris, who's like an amazing guy, I rang him up and I said, look, I'm struggling here, because as horrendous as it was doing 300 and odd mile on a child's bike, it's it was kind of like I missed it weirdly I missed that sort of doing stuff really physically exertive things so I had to wean myself off it you know and now I kind of I've not trained for about probably about a month now but I know I will do again so it's like knowing it's there but it is I don't know the science behind, but you see everywhere that exercise endorphins.

41:23I really do believe in that because there's something, it doesn't feel like it at the time. You know what I mean? But after, you do get a little bit of a like, oh, I feel better now. Yeah, you feel better. You feel energized. You feel smug. I like that bit. You feel so smug for the rest of the day. I've not gone to the old Apple Watch, counting missteps and all that carry on yet. All that carry on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I go off how my trousers feel. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I'm all right. Oh, Jesus. Better get on the peloton. You know what I mean? So that's how I do it these days. How was your sleep?

42:01Has your mental health affected that in a negative way ever? No, I think having three kids in general, permanently tired. Yeah. You know when they talk about, you don't have caffeine after six o 'clock. Like, I can have it at bedtime. I can literally have a cup of coffee at the side of me in bed, drink it, and I'm gone. Really? Yeah. My biggest thing is it doesn't feel like I can ever get into a... That's one of my... When you were talking about yoga right at the beginning, that's something I want to do. But I want to try and work on my sleep. Yeah. I want to try and, like, I love an early night.

42:41Me too. I mean, it feels like a little bit of a win. It's so naughty and brilliant. When you're in bed for about quarter to ten with a coat. Quarter to ten, that's late. Yeah. I'm not even joking. That is so late. Yeah. But I kind of love it. And I love going, oh, I'm in bed and you're not. Yeah, I love it. World. Especially in the summer when you're going to bed and it's daylight. Oh, I love it. Cheeky. Although I love in summer, I love the quilt between my knees. Right. And obviously the cold side of the pillow. that is the best feeling ever in summer. So niche. But yeah, I want to try and it's difficult.

43:18I think, you know, again, going back to having kids, keeping a routine when you've got children is not easy because like last night, Felicity, we looked too thick. You know, things happen. But I'd love to be able to consistently like be in bed for about half 10 and get up at, you know, well, I'm always up in the morning with the kids anyhow. but just get that. Is it eight hours is the optimal thing? Well, it keeps changing, doesn't it? I think we're saying eight. Is eight the kind of one? It kind of stresses me out knowing because then when I haven't got eight, I'm like, oh no, it's going to be a bad day.

43:51And usually it's not, usually you're absolutely fine. Yeah, I remember once, I once slept, I think it was, honestly, about 12 hours. I went away with some friends to Portugal and had a dodgy steak and it really did me in. I mean, both ends. and I just stayed in bed for three days but I remember sleeping for 12 hours and waking up and literally feeling like one of the Avengers. Yes. I was like, so there is something in the sleep thing, you know what I mean? There's something in the sleep thing. Everyone talks about the gym and everything else but the sleep thing is key. We can all agree on that.

44:29Yeah. What do you do, right? So you mentioned this earlier, getting into these sort of catastrophizing cycles. I do this all the time. I had really bad periods of it where I believed all the worst outcomes were going to happen. It was like, that is how my day is going to go. Well, that is that worst case scenario is going to happen if I don't do whatever. Like OCD in the mix, the whole thing. When you're on a bit of a catastrophizing vortex, how do you get out of that? How do you find common sense again or a place of feeling more neutral about it? I think if you can pick up the phone to a friend and talk about it, that helps.

45:07Yeah. But when I look back at all the experiences and all the bad parts I've had in my life and those dark sort of times, it never quite happens how you catastrophize. You know what I mean? It doesn't, the world doesn't end because that hasn't happened. Yeah. So that's why I cling on to, you know, it sort of, you think, do you know what? we're above ground and we're sort of still breathing. Let's try and figure it out, you know. And it doesn't always work, but that's the way I just kind of think it's not going to be as bad as what you think it's going to be. Yeah, it's so hard to claw yourself back when you're in that little spiral.

45:48It's not easy, but we can all do it. And what about self-loathing? Does that ever come into it when you're feeling down? You know, that's certainly something that myself and all these lovely happy place, a lot of the ladies here, when we're talking on social media or we're getting feedback from certain podcast episodes, that is such an issue. When your mental health's low, the self-loathing is so easily creeps into the equation. I don't care what you do for a living. We all go through that. We all go for it. And you have the imposter syndrome and everything else. I think for me, strangely, when I started doing this job, because I'm like, say, brought up by my mum on her own in Bolton, working class.

46:31I remember, even now sometimes, I kind of feel as though like, God, everyone's better educated than me. Everyone seems to have gone to uni and everyone's kind of feels secure. Now, I know that isn't the case, but that's what my mind tells me. That's where you start doubting yourself and worrying about stuff. And I've done so many tours of the UK. I've just done one recently, soda everywhere. And even though that happens, I still worry about being able to do stuff and what people think and everything else. But, you know, I think the good news, if you can call it good news, is we all think that.

47:13We do. We all. And if you don't, you're probably that person who's driving like that. If you don't. You're right in the car. in the dark. I totally hear you on that. You know, I'm from a working class background. I didn't go to university. I've been totally like just drowning in that insecurity that I'm not smart enough. And I think the good flip side of that is that it drives you. That drives me constantly. I want to read more books. I want to learn more. I want to better myself. I want to prove to myself that I can do things that I don't think I'm capable of. I think you can, and I've had moments where I have blocked myself from doing things.

47:52I thought, I'm not smart enough to do that. I'm out of my depth. You're with a bunch of journalists who went to Oxbridge or whatever, and you just feel like, this is so out of my league. But on a good day, if you can flip it and it drives you, that is the best motivator ever. Yeah, absolutely. And like, see, even all those people who've had that education and everything else, they'll have their own doubts about things. Or they'll probably look at you and go, oh, I wish I could be like, I wish I had that experience in my life. And everyone does it. Everyone looks at everyone else and wants a little bit of what they've got, doesn't they?

48:21Yeah. In Australia, I'm glad we're not all like that. I'm glad we have problems sometimes because if everything was a bed of Rosie's constantly, I think you'd probably get bored after a while. You need a little bit of drama now and again just to keep you on your toes. You learn from it. Of course you do. You learn from it, make better choices, don't do it again. Yeah, you get better from it. Absolutely. And where would you say your happy place is, Paddy? Definitely at home. You know, I probably, I should imagine most people say that to you. I don't know if they do or they don't. But, yeah, I love being at home.

48:56Like I say, it's just that I remember when I were a kid, like, my mum would shout me in on Sunday night. So you'd be playing out. And then back in the day, mums used to shout you. You don't see that much. And I'd be like, Patrick! And you'd hear it, like, from five miles away. Whatever you were doing, you're like a meerkat. and you're like, you're home. And that used to be, this is the before forms, you know. So, my mum would shout me in on Sunday night and I always remember like, so Sunday was bath night so you'd have your bath. Or just once a week? Once a week, whether you like it or not. So it used to be bath night and then you'd get in front of the fire, your mum would comb your hair in front of the fire.

49:40Were you brought up in the Victorian times? No, honestly, this is, this is, honestly, this was a Bolton thing. thing so like and it'd be like play your cards right I'll love bought us something to be on the telly but those moments of feeling really safe and and warm and loved and comfortable you're not realizing that at the time but they stay with you and I think now the psychology of that when I'm at home and the door's shut and the kids are in bed and I've got the telly on it must just be it's somewhere in my, like, that is a happy place. You know what I mean? And I just love that. I love it.

50:19Do you still just bath on a Sunday? No. Do you know what? It's weird, isn't it? Because I love a bath, and I'm a shower person these days, but I absolutely love a bath. But the only trouble now, again, with having kids, you start running a bath, Christ, it's 20 minutes filling it up. Kids, summer kicks off, bath's cold. I've tried the Epsom salts and everything but they just get up your bum it's just like grits it's like sitting on grit in the bath I'm like who's this relaxing but yeah I kind of I love being at home and I love knowing I've nothing to do yeah it's just the simple things in life are always the best they are they're always the best they are the best well we're going to let you get home to potentially have a bath if you fancy it yeah yeah Felicity's dad will be back on the scene in about 30 minutes We have loved having you at the Happy Place Festival everyone give it up for Paddy McGuinness Thank you Come on Paddy Paddy you absolute legend I loved that conversation I really hope you did too I especially love the idea of Paddy drying himself off by a fire like he's born in the olden times um oh paddy that was so good really appreciate your time now look next week by the way i'll be joined by another very very funny person a very funny welsh person i'll leave you with that okay until then a massive thanks again to paddy to the producers of this episode and basil oxterby and to you you gorgeous lads

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