Rachel Stevens: Self-worth, worrying, and S Club whirlwinds

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. Today we are live from the Happy Place Festival in Chiswick with Rachel Stevens. I don't ever remember like I do with my girls talking about, I want to hear their voice. I want to hear how they feel. I want to know their opinions. And we didn't have that growing up in my family. And a lot of attention was put on the outside, the exterior, how we looked, how we looked from the outside. I grew up feeling like I had to be perfect and everything had to be controlled. And, you know, when feelings are very messy. Now, Rachel is someone I used to see a hell of a lot back in the day.

0:38I'm talking, unbelievably, 20 years ago or something like that, when she was obviously one-seventh of the iconic S Club 7. And they'd all come onto various TV shows that I presented. In fact, in this chat, she tells the wildly bizarre story of how she was discovered for the band. Anyway, Rachel was the first guest to join me on the talk stage at our Chiswick Festival a couple of weeks ago. It was nine o 'clock in the morning, and the tent was already absolutely packed with all of you gorgeous lot wanting to hear from her. I suspect many of the audience felt like they grew up with Rachel just like me.

1:15The thing is, I'm not sure we ever got the chance to know the real people underneath the pop star gloss of the 90s and noughties. It was the glossiest time for pop stars ever, which is why Rachel's written her memoir. It's called Finding My Voice. She's got so much to say about how her self-worth got tied up in her appearance, about being a worrier, same babes, and about working through the grief of losing bandmate Paul just as they were all about to head back out on tour. You're going to completely adore this. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapers.

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3:49That's wearfigs.com, code FIGSRX. Right, let's do it. Here's the show.

4:20Hey, Rach. Hello. Take a seat. Hello, everyone. Here we are with our lovely live audience. It's very early, isn't it? It's early festival action, but we're all going to have a lovely time. It's all very relaxed. There are no rules around here and I hope that afterwards you'd have a little wander around. Oh, I'm going to. Get involved in the festivities. Yeah. Are you having a good summer so far? Really good. I could do with some more sunshine, couldn't we? Yes. We could do with some more sunshine. It's coming. It's going to happen tomorrow. Oh, fingers crossed. Hopefully, if you're coming back for the second day of the festival.

4:52Well, it's so lovely to have you here. Oh, thank you. I don't know when I last saw you but as I was saying to the lovely audience before, I used to see you quite a lot 20 years ago you were always on a kids tv show that I was hosting namely Dig It. Dig It I know my god like four in the morning I was just gonna say always yeah getting up to do your hair and makeup but I remember that era and seeing S Club come on to Dig It and I would look at all of you and just think oh my god you're so gorgeous and put together and you had a stylist and I felt like an utter dweeb next to you guys I had like you were always so cool no you You were so cool.

5:28No, I had the worst outfits ever. But it's so funny, having read your book, from what I saw, there was this sort of like very confident, put-together person. But actually, in this book, you say that that was quite challenging for you, going on kids' TV shows back in the day and doing interviews. Why was that tricky? Yeah, I think I got very good at putting on the face and the smile and the show. And yeah, particularly interviews, I always found really challenging. And I think it just got more and more as I went along. I mean, I pretty much learned on the job. I hadn't, before S Club hadn't sort of auditioned, gone to stage school, anything like that.

6:07I was just in the right place at the right time. And it was a real sliding doors moment that I got into the band. So I kind of learned on the job. And I went into the band at a place when I was quite emotionally shaky, quite insecure. My dad had left, my family had separated. I was very, like, my foundations were very shaky. and I think to you know and I was young too you know so I think going into that I mean it's very exciting but it was also yeah just muddling through and sort of yeah I just learned to sort of push everything down and put the smile on and go you know well I guess also and we'll talk about that fateful moment where you ended up in this band but I guess the world tells us you're so lucky that's amazing you're in the band you've made it everyone knows who you are you're getting to travel the world so actually you naturally then end up suppressing things because you feel like you should be enjoying it all and you should be feeling all the things that everybody's telling you that you're feeling yeah that's a it's a tricky one to navigate it's a really weird one I think you know there's that thing of um people in the public eye lead these very like charmed lives and we're all just all the same aren't we just muddling through we you know there's lots of wonderful things we get to do and lots of opportunities but um yeah I think sometimes doing them in the public especially growing up in the public yeah you'd have I mean how old were you when you you were probably the same 15 16 yeah and you just kind of muddle through don't you yeah without a doubt on the job and this was unexpected for you because I didn't know until I read your book about this fateful moment that led you to S Club 7 so tell us tell us that story what happened yeah so I was um went to Sony my brother was working in the cafe had no money so I used to go there for a free lunch every day and I was just sitting there minding my own business and I just got approached by these two producers Mike and Nick Rose and Foster and we worked a lot with them back in the days really big producers and they just came up to me and said can you sing and it was all a little bit of a blur I mean I have the most terrible memory but But I was like, yeah.

8:16I mean, I always loved singing. And I always would sing. I mean, I grew up around music and I always loved it. But I was never confident. I never sort of performed or anything like that. But I was just like, yep. And then it all kind of just went from there. They wanted me for this solo artist they were trying to put together. Lolly. Who remembers Lolly? Anyone remember Lolly? Some of you must. Come on. Lolly used to come on Dig It. Did she? Yeah, 100%. I remember sharing a cab with Lolly once. I don't know where we were going or why, but I remember thinking, oh my God, I'm in a cab with Lolly.

8:50So you were going to be Lolly. I was going to be Lolly. And my first single, I went into the studio to record this song called Telephone Boy. I think, was that her first? She did. Hey, Mickey, you're so fine. Blah, blah, blah, blah. That one. Yeah. So I went in and recorded that. Just like that. Just like that. And yeah, that obviously didn't happen. I ended up getting introduced to Simon Fuller. I went to this big World Cup party that he was having at this hotel and we just chatted for a little bit. And then I went off mingling. I didn't think anything of it. I knew nothing about S Club auditions happening.

9:22And then literally two weeks later, I got a phone call from Simon and he said, I'm putting together this band. Would you like to be in it? I mean, it literally was just crazy how something like that just happened like that. Yeah. That was my audition, really singing in the studio, going to meet him, having a little chat. But thank God, because honestly, I think I would have totally messed the audition and wouldn't have got it because the whole auditioning process is scary. Terrifying. So you're then lumped with these six other people, but it seems like you gelled. I mean, you had to. Well, at the beginning, I was the fifth one.

9:57It wasn't going to be seven originally. And then later on down the line, Joe and Brad joined. But yeah, it was very strategically put together. before yeah they were working out the chemistry making sure you get on and you had that chemistry which is great yeah when you think back to that early era what kind of memories pop up because it must have been a whirlwind you know I used to see that from the peripherals these bands you know going from one country to the next you'd be in Germany doing promo in the morning and then London in the evening and then doing a gig somewhere else and you were obviously filming in Miami as well for the TV show do you look back at that era fondly I do I do I mean I I look back at it and I mean it was just a whirlwind I mean you know what it's like with everything there's so many layers to everything you do and it was it was so fast and we were like you said all over the place and I think because we had the TV show element as well when we weren't recording albums touring whatever we were also doing the TV show so it was it was pretty much all the time but for me it was um you know I was very much it very taught me a very strong work ethic and for me it was it was kind of a bit of an escapism for me because where I was at at the time when I got into S Club we just um lost my whole family had kind of fallen apart really so it kind of was like took me it gave me a focus and it gave me a structure and for some time it really work but it is crazy when you've got your diaries planned out for you everything's being done for you at that age especially when you would perhaps be going to university or you'd be sort of finding your way in the world or you'd be out you know at work and you'd be sort of earning money and it's a very different kind of everything's so protected and managed and so in lots of ways I felt very safe in that but then as time went on it kind of it doesn't allow you to kind of I don't know anyway me I fell into this kind of lane if you know what I mean that makes sense I guess you lose a bit of autonomy because everything is plotted for you so there's no space to go I don't really want to do that and I don't know about you but I certainly at that young age around that time where you know you felt like everybody was trying to get the same job and there was a lot of competitiveness I would really not say no very often at all I would just go yeah yeah fine yeah I'll do that no worries so yeah there's not much room to to say and also at that age who's got the confidence to say no I certainly didn't it's so true it's exactly and it's a mixture of all of those things combined you just kind of there's not the space to go hang on a minute what do I how do I feel because you've got so many things relying on you and you're young in this sort of business world and that's a whole other thing you've got to learn business and and you're doing it all publicly and it's like it's a it's quite a minefield what age do you think um that sort of change came into play where you thought oh I can exercise a bit of what I want here I can say no or I can say do you know what I'm not comfortable with that or can we try xyz when did that happen not that long ago yeah like really not that long ago I mean certainly not throughout S Club my solo career and actually I think after S Club I probably for my mental health would have been a good place to just stop and like reflect and but you know what it's like again it goes back to that thing you can't and I was also yeah you're scared to stop because like you never know when your next job is going to come and it's so feels like it's quite fickle and it's very fast um but also and also I'm very driven and I'm and I love what I do I love and I love I've always been very career driven and passionate about what I do but yeah I wasn't in a good headspace and you know you have to you know especially being whatever we do in life you have to know yourself to then be able to give yourself fully in it and so it was it was a difficult like conflict for me.

14:02Did that lack of confidence in saying no spill into your actual life as well? Did you find it easier to say no outside of work or were you still struggling with confidence to say what you wanted outside of your career um in lots of ways yeah I mean my confidence I've always struggled with my confidence really a lot and I guess it depends I think I held people so close like literally like my mom I got to a point where I wouldn't let anyone in I mean the walls went like shut down and that's the thing for me that's taken so long so much like work years in therapy like really being curious about getting in there because it's all going on in there but I buried it so deep that I wasn't letting anyone in and I wasn't it was that lack of connection with people that I was craving so much we all want that connection don't we with people it's that's what life is about yeah I just I just felt so low self-esteem I yeah and I wasn't making those connections with people is that you think a coping mechanism that you learned early on just to go shut shop not connecting with anybody here I'm just gonna just close the doors for sure yeah I mean I you know if I've written about it in my book but I mean I grew up I think it's also a generational thing but you know that thing of children are seen and not heard that was very much I don't ever remember like I do with my girls talking about I want to hear their voice I want to hear how they feel I want to know their opinions and we didn't have that in growing up in my family um and a lot of attention was put on the outside the exterior how we looked how we looked from the outside it was had to feel like I had to be I grew up feeling like I had to be perfect and everything had to be controlled and being vulnerable for me something I've always struggled with my whole life and I think vulnerability is the most beautiful thing it is so beautiful you see the real person and I always used to sort of see people and see that in them and I couldn't access that and it was so that's something that I've been yeah working on just to be in the present moment how much of your self-worth do you think is still tied up in appearance oh um yeah quite quite a lot but more so because it's learned but I've I've really I mean I've I've worked a lot on myself and I know how I trust myself now you know and I still get triggered you know this this experience for me right now is you know I'm so I've you know I'm so used to putting the the shutters down and my natural reaction would be and go into shut everything down and go into my head and just you know um censor myself so much so this for me is such a wonderful experience too because I think it's so important to be out of your comfort zone and push yourself even though it feels really scary yeah I really um love you for saying that and sort of breaking the fourth wall and going like this is scary like this is not normal to sit in front of a bunch of people you don't know and chat about life like it's not a normal thing and I think the more we can all sort of talk about that and say do you know what you know everyone's in this together we've all got stuff going on exactly and you know pushing yourself and feeling a bit nervous about doing something is so healthy but it just has to feel comfortable no that's it and that's what one of the other things I've learned is to sit in the discomfort before I would do anything to um that is vulnerability isn't it sitting in discomfort and one of the reasons I wanted to write this book was to share just exactly I think it's so special and so important and that's one thing I always struggled to do because I was so protected but I always wanted to and that's why I was so well familiar and other reasons so curious about and so passionate about self-development and people we're all the same yeah all of us you know we all have the same insecurities The market's uncertain.

18:13Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about.

18:52Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Dr. India Woods here. As a veterinarian, I demand a lot of my scrubs on the job. That's why I show up in figs. Figs are made for the sometimes crazy situations I find myself in.

19:26It doesn't matter if I have to squat, sit, bend, or even chase after one of my patients. Figs moves with me and keeps me comfortable in the highest pressure situations. Figs gives me one less thing to worry about. Get 15 % off your first order by visiting wherefigs.com and use code FIGSRX at checkout. That's wherefigs.com, code FIGSRX. I think when you start to really open up, and it doesn't have to be in a public forum, but with friends or whatever, talking about things that are really meaningful or trickier things, that's where you do connect because everybody's going through something and we can all find that commonality and oh god yeah I've I've totally been there and it is a really honest book and I'm sure it was tricky to write at times you know you go right back into childhood and as you touched on earlier talking about your dad leaving and he started a new family soon after which you were it was all felt quite confusing you weren't quite sure what was going on no one was really talking to each other yeah felt like a confusing era of your life oh my god so confusing because I you know especially as kids I think well I wasn't I mean I was a teenager but kids are so emotionally smart you know and we sense stuff don't we and I knew and I could feel that there was stuff going on but nothing was ever talked about and I get now especially being a parent all you want to do is protect your kids you know it's so difficult to have difficult conversations with your kids and do it in a way that's age appropriate or whatever um so I get I get that but yeah nothing was ever spoken about and a lot was going on and I think I sensed that so I throughout my childhood I felt a lot of unease and anxiety suffered with anxiety and panic attacks and and I think that's why because I internalized everything and that's another I mean we all know this but why it's so important to talk and just hear your voice and get it out and yeah and it doesn't have to be perfect I think that's another thing like it's okay to muddle through and just get it out it's okay yeah I always had this thing of feeling like I had everything had to be perfect and I had to articulate myself in the in a perfect way but you know when feelings are very messy and you know I look back at stuff that happened in my childhood with my my family and my the divorce and when my dad left and it was very messy and everything just gets messy yeah I know and it's the pressure we put on ourselves to get it all right and to be perfect is wild whereas like you're saying it's fine for things to be a bit of a mess I mean certainly this weekend for me is like the biggest lesson and practice in letting go because there's only so much control I have over any of it and I have to just go we'll see what happens and you know bits of it might not be perfect and hopefully bits of it will be lovely but we just have to sink into that mess and be okay with it and maybe as we get older it gets a little bit easier yeah I think so but I was just going to say when you were saying that I admire you so much for that and I always even when we were talking about when we were younger I remember and seeing you throughout the years thinking that you're so true to who you are and I think that's just such a beautiful thing and I really admire that with you I'm I'm really grateful.

22:40Thank you, Rachel. But yeah, definitely. I think as we get to know ourselves more and we're able to start setting boundaries and actually know that it's okay to just speak our truth in the moment. Yeah. It's empowering. And I think the more empowered we feel, the more we grow and growth as well is messy. It's like what I've realized is the more I'm growing, the more I feel. I mean, and I feel we all feel so much, don't we? But I got very used to just pushing the feelings away and not feeling because I think the feeling just felt too painful. And it all stemmed from my relationship. Well, lots of a combination of things.

23:19But I think the relationship with my dad was something that I really struggled with. That loss. It was like a grief losing him and someone who you feel like should love you the most. that was something that I couldn't that was caused a lot of pain throughout the years that I had to sort of deal with and I think as you get older you understand as well becoming a parent that we're all just flawed humans and we all make mistakes and I realized how important it was to you don't forget certain things and but you forgive yeah move forward and you move forward in compassion and empathy for others and you know just without judgment I mean I guess we all get to a point we start to see our parents as humans rather than exactly kind of idols in our lives that get it all right and I mean you were estranged from your dad for some time but you now are in contact yeah um yeah we we've had a very messy relationship really and then you know I think the longest I I didn't speak to him for about 10 or so years.

24:22And then we had a couple of like meetings and they were just disastrous. And then as time went on and I sort of got to a place where I felt more peaceful with it and understood it a little bit more. I just decided one night to just go over and knock on the door and just say hi and sort of break down that kind of barrier, which I was really scared about doing. I bet you were. That's a scary thing to do. Yeah, but it felt important because I really believe, like I said before, how important it is to forgive but not forget. And now I'm in a place where I can set boundaries. I can, you know, I can develop a relationship with my dad now and see him for him as a human being.

25:09And now grow a relationship that will be like just two people, you know, instead of him being my dad. and I don't have expectations anymore. I think that's also the thing, is like letting go of the expectation. But equally, you haven't got that, and I'm sure we've all had it, whether it's a relative or a friendship, where a relationship breaks down and neither of you are communicating and it feels horrible knowing you've got that person out there that there's that just disconnect with. And actually, like we've talked about earlier, it can be a mess, but it can be a relationship that works in its own way and it doesn't have to be perfect and there's boundaries and exactly as you say you've your expectations are kind of you know lower yeah but it's better than having someone out there where there's no relationship yeah and also I think it's a lot of our pride gets in the way yeah and a lot of don't know if ego is the right word but a lot of and defense and nothing can move forward in that and yeah I think you know it is messy and it does you know like you said it doesn't have to be perfect but what has been really nice with my dad actually is I lost my driver's license I've got it back now but it's all that 20 mile an hour zone in London stuff probably right yes exactly 26 miles an hour in a 20 exactly and then so I asked my dad to drive me around certain places and it was a really nice opportunity to just hang out and just chat and sort of get to know each other again which was a really it's a really good thing came out of that that's really cool and also So when you're driving, you're not looking at each other.

26:46So it gives you that opportunity. Like you can speak a bit more freely because you're just both looking. Exactly. You're not too intense. Yeah, definitely. That's really cool. I love that. And I love that you shared that in the book. I thought that was brilliant. When your own marriage with your ex-partner started to break down, did you have fears come up from your own childhood? And how did you navigate that? Did I have fears? Yeah. I mean, I had fears for the girls. they were my main you know I think there was lots of fears there's lots of questioning am I doing the right thing um god it was just I was in turmoil with it and yeah obviously the main thing were the children and the girls in it so yeah um yeah it was really it was a really really hard time um but I think what I've I'm not someone who believes in staying in a relationship for the children.

27:37I think, you know, we as parents show our children how to be happy, how to love, how to communicate, how to, and yeah, so it was a really tricky time, but we were very lucky in that we decided to get couple therapy and we had a lot of advice on how to talk to them through it. But I wasn't scared in the fact that, I was scared for them and how they'd be affected by it. But I always knew that I wanted to talk to them and make them feel as safe as Alex, their dad. Also, we're very aligned with that. It's all about them and making them feel like we are there and we are not going anywhere. And we never speak badly about each other.

28:21We've done it in, you know, it's definitely a process and it's taken a lot of navigating and it will for some time. But. hi this is nox from the popcast with nox and jamie and maybe like us at the podcast you also know people who have been smokers or vapors and zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about because there are many good reasons to make a change to zen nicotine pouches reasons like zen nicotine pouches are still america's number one choice for smoke-free hands-free nicotine satisfaction and you can choose between 10 varieties each variety available in either three or six milligrams.

28:54Check out zen.com slash find to find zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

29:23smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. What does it mean to move at the speed of AI? It means thinking big and moving fast. It means running like a 10-person team, even if it's just you. With Wix, it's possible. Create a website that's as unique as your business. Launch a new campaign or test new ways to make more money without slowing down. Think it, build it, scale it, all with AI on Wix. That is our focus, is to keep them feeling as safe as possible. Yeah, I mean, from reading the book, it seems like it's been a really communicative and amicable separation and that that communication has been the key to all of the success of your separation.

30:19Because I think you can have successful departures from a relationship where you know that there are no loose ends that everybody's speaking and I guess in a way it's been the opposite to what you experienced with your dad leaving no communication that you've taken great care and effort to make sure that you've spoken about everything and it seems really balanced and amicable yeah I mean that was god that was our most most important thing I remember that day so clearly when we sat down I was so we were both so scared about telling them but we planned it from like we we were advised to do it in the morning when the kids weren't tired and you know it was meticulously planned and again it's something you have to muddle through but we were as planned as we could be but yeah I mean it is it's it is a it's a tricky one like you know it's a constant navigation of parenting separately and we do parent differently but the thing that keeps us together is that we love them so much and that we want them to feel safe in it all so whatever's going on between us we try and keep it separate as we can we're gonna make mistakes we've you know we make mistakes along the way but we're doing our best and that's all you can do isn't it is just do your best in it it's not an easy thing to navigate I mean any family's messy whether you're married not married like it's just I've got a blended family I know the dynamic it's really complicated but but it's beautiful isn't it it is beautiful because you know it's life and I think it's showing kids as well that life isn't just husband wife you have kids you know life is a whole you know it's a there's a whole I don't know how to put it into words but you know it's it's we've grown up feeling like we have to conform to be this certain way and it isn't that way and I think it you know our generation are breaking that yeah barrier but it's a hard I think we're breaking the barrier of so many things of this mental health conversation you know so yeah you're right well I think it's brilliant that you've written about it because it's one of those things that all of us will know someone probably now who's going through a separation a divorce or might even be in your own life and we need to know that other people are going through it and how they're navigating it to feel less alone in it I think it's a really important subject yeah um you celebrated not long ago 25 years of s club which is unreal because you're only 22 so I know yeah um but those markers blow my mind it's ridiculous I was around in that era and I'm like that can't be right 25 years that's ridiculous it's ridiculous but it was a huge moment but it was also an unbelievably painful moment because it was really sadly teamed with this shocking news of Paul dying yeah and I don't think anyone could quite believe it I can't imagine what it was like to be in the band around that time totally out of the blue totally shocking how did you guys get through that um god it just brought us even closer together yeah I yeah it was just devastating um but we just were together actually and I think we were just all very we just talked and we just kind of you know obviously the tour was all happening but we just there was no talk about it not happening but we just just stopped and took a step back and we just talked and we were just there for each other we were really wanted to just be mindful of his family and just be as respectful and and you know we were just talking all the time and just sharing in memories of him and the rehearsals so yeah we we then you know the tour took on a whole different meaning and became a really beautiful tribute and celebration of him and so it was it was gorgeous to celebrate him in that way with the fans as well so it became very very special but he was always there like you know him you know there'll be lots of times where we one of us get emotional and then we'd just laugh and then we'd have memories and we just talked and I think we just kind of all were there for each other and I think just that's all you can do isn't it it's like and you had some group therapy sessions as a band it was really good I just I I think talking is the best thing ever you know and it can never be a bad thing you know it opens up conversation and it helps you just um yeah it's just as simple as that isn't it yeah um but it was it was a really special way to celebrate him and his life yeah yeah but it was just yeah tragic awful awful and I think it's one of those things especially when you know someone so well or you've worked with someone you've got that history with them yeah it does make you sit up and go right no more pissing about what what am I doing here it really does give you a sense of every day needs to count it's not going to be perfect yeah you know it could be a hot mess but every day I've got to be present and be in the moment do you feel like it had that impact on you I think I felt like that for a long time I think I've I think aren't we all striving to be more present and be in the moment and I think that's just what the most just such a wonderful thing to be able to be is just be in the moment um so yeah I've I've been striving for that for a long time but yeah I mean that was just yeah it's just just tragic but just sharing in him was just helped us yeah you know beautiful move forward yeah one thing that we've got massively in common is being worriers.

35:42Any other worriers in the crowd? Oh yeah. We're all here together. It's horrible. I worry about all sorts of nonsense, things that will never happen, but they're there in my head. What if? What if? Drives me wild. What do you worry about the most? What do I worry about the most? I worry about so many things but the first thing that came to my mind is I get a lot of health anxiety that's one of the things that I really struggle with and I talk about one of the things that my sort of like panic uh well my stuff latched onto was emetophobia and I talk about that in the book and my god I spent so much time and I still do it's not gone away I just manage it better and I manage my anxiety better but if ever the kids come home from school you know what kids are like and they say oh my god my this kid was sick at school today I'm like and I go you know and so yeah but oh my god I worry about so many things like on a plane I'm like what if this happens I get in a literally I don't even know what to say first because it's there's so many things yeah I worry about I hear you uh what others think but I don't worry about that so much anymore but yeah just everything yeah what about you oh all sorts I mean I when my worry or anxiety gets really bad it tips into ocd so i get ocd type reactions from it so i can do the the obvious stuff like having to check all the ovens off and the doors are locked about a thousand times yeah or if my stepson comes in really late because the euros are on and he comes at two in the morning yeah and and then i have to go and check the door and then maybe he's open maybe he's cooked something and I have to check everything again at two in the morning it's really annoying um and then you can't you can't like you can't relax you can't relax I know so mine can tip into that all my OCD can just be like an obsessive worry that I cannot override it will not go yeah a lot around like the safety of my kids yeah all the usual things that we all probably have yeah but again I think because we don't talk about this stuff we just think oh it's only me why is everyone saying like why why is everyone coping and everyone's just like not worrying about stuff most of us are doing it we get very good at sort of putting on the show you know it's like that thing at the school gates you're all right how are you fine yeah and it's fine you're going oh my god what if i die in a minute like yeah literally yeah yeah yeah um and that's so mad i mean there are people my husband's not a worrier and it's amazing because i'll say to him but what about like a holiday but what about this and what about that and what if this happens and what if the kids never sleep again and blah blah and he's just like what are you all about?

38:28How amazing is that? I envy that. How amazing that you've got that's your partner. I know. Because imagine if you were both. But sometimes it's annoying because I think why aren't you worried? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why are you not worrying like me? Yeah. There's something wrong with you. There's not. There's something really wrong with you. And is he like just asleep in like two seconds? Yeah, oh yeah. And you're just like. Just literally snoring within half a second. Oh, yeah. But there's many worriers out there and it feels like a really sort of banal subject but it's so important because we're all doing it and it's really annoying and it's a form of control it's control isn't it it's control and that's what i've realized like you know when you said obsessive worries like emetophobia i think any phobia ocd it's like a form of if i get that it's like taking away from what the actual feeling is i think that's what the phobia and it latches on to different things but what it really is is a way of coping and not feeling what we're feeling so true and so true that feeling of again goes back to sitting in the discomfort of whatever those feelings are and I think that is what is the most important thing to sit in and go look inside and go and accept it yeah okay that doesn't feel or whatever it's hard you know it's hard when you're feeling fear and you're feeling scared and whatever you're feeling but to sit in that discomfort is so um helps you grow it does so much it does and it's the quickest way to bypass all of that extra time wasting that we do with all the worries if we can just deal with the discomfort which you know in the modern world we're we're sort of tempted with these quick fixes do this and then you never worry again or do this actually sometimes we just need to feel a bit rubbish yeah and that's that's the answer to it but I think it's again there's so many brilliant things in this book in terms of your honesty and talking about all the stuff that we're all going through so I'm I'm so glad that that you've taken the time to go there with all of this stuff.

40:21It's brilliant. And it's been such a joy talking to you today. Oh, it's been lovely. Thank you. I'm so glad you're at the festival. My heart's not pounding anymore. Yeah, I love it. I'm so glad. Please give it up for Rachel Stevens, everyone. Thank you.

40:39Rachel's book, Finding My Voice, is out now. I really loved that chat and it was so nice to have the audience there. You gorgeous lot. It was just a really lovely way to start the Happy Place Festival. Another book that I'd highly recommend is The Husbands by Holly Gramazio. This is our Happy Place book club read for August. It's so brilliant. How's this for a storyline? You wait ages for the one, right? Then 203 come along at once. One night, Lauren finds a strange man in her flat, which sounds terrifying, who claims to be her husband, even more terrifying. And all the evidence from photos to electricity bills suggests that he's right.

41:21Lauren slowly realises that her attic is creating an endless supply of husbands for her. There's the one who pretends to play music on her toes. Ick. The one who makes a great breakfast sandwich and the one who can calm her unruly thoughts with a single touch. But when you can change husbands as easily as changing a light bulb, how do you know whether the one you have now is the good enough one or the wrong one or the best one? Honestly, I loved it. The Husbands is such a fun summer read. And I'm going to be chatting to Holly on stage at our Happy Place Festival at Tatton Park on September the 1st.

41:56If you haven't got your tickets already, do head over to our website, happyplacefestival.com. And if you can't make it, you'll be able to hear that conversation on the podcast a couple of weeks later. In the meantime, do join us on Instagram at happyplacebookclub. book club for all of you fellow bookworms book nerds you are my people i am your people and all that jazz join me there there's going to be loads of chat about that book and lots of others so come and have a look right back soon with another conversation from chiswick it's a really funny one that you're going to absolutely love but until then a huge huge thanks again to rachel to the producer anushka tate at happy play studios and to you lot i love you

42:55so

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