Radhi Devlukia-Shetty: Discipline, personalised nutrition, and Tesco trips

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. This is the show that gently leads you towards whatever journey you personally want to go on. Today I'm chatting to Radhi Devlukia Shetty. I don't believe I have all the knowledge. We never will believe we have all the knowledge. But even if you're able to tell one person something and that takes them to somewhere else and that allows them to start, you don't have to be the person that finishes their journey. You can be the person to start it. Had my teachers decided not to share and had imposter syndrome and felt that way, I would have never learned the things I did.

0:33And so I think I stop myself from feeling like an imposter by thinking of myself as a bridge that I'll help to connect you to the place I'm at. And then hopefully I'll lead you there and then hopefully someone else will lead you further and further. And that's just, you know, we're all part of this system. Radhi is a Sunday Times and New York Times bestselling author, plant based cook and co-founder of Juni Tea. She grew up in the UK, surrounded by the rich traditions of her Indian culture, which played a huge part in shaping the purpose that drives her now. She has this gorgeous deep appreciation for the mind-body connection, and that fuels her curiosity for plant-based meals that really nourish the body and mind through conscious, almost ritualistic cooking.

1:19I've been making so much from her new cookbook, Joyful, over the past few months. At the weekend, I made this mud pie, right? It's a plant-based mud pie. I wanted to slam my face in this thing. It was the most delicious thing I've ever eaten. By the end of it, I was like, I can't, I can't stop. It was creamy, it was rich, it was delightful. Also, a family favourite, me and Jessie are obsessed with the curried butternut squash soup. We've made it a dozen times already. I love this book, as you can tell. We talked about putting care back into the way we eat, but also about being disciplined with ourselves, why that's freeing, not restrictive, and about everyone's favourite niggling voice in our heads, imposter syndrome.

2:05Full disclosure, what you're about to hear is the second take. I think it might have even been the third of the beginning of this episode. First time round, Radhi had very sweetly complimented the bright yellow colour of my jumper. And in throwing my arms out to reveal it in all its glory as a big show off, I smacked the video camera and it fell off of its stand and crashed onto the floor. Don't worry, it wasn't broken. I'm glad because they're blimmin' expensive. So you can still very much go ahead and watch this episode on YouTube too if you'd like.

2:42Revenues tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. If you're a smoker or vapor ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zinn Nicotine Pouches, you'll discover many good reasons. Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand.

3:23Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction. But there's only one Zinn. Check out Zinn.com slash find to find Zinn at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. You're invited to spend an evening on Fremont Avenue. For generations, this house has been home to soulful music, good food, and cutthroat card games. Saints and sinners. Unexpected laughs and unspoken truths. Good times. Hard times. And, of course, family. Always family. So pull up a chair and join us at Fremont Avenue. A world premiere play only at Arena Stage.

4:06Performances start October 8th. Tickets at arenastage.org. At Capella University, we believe accessible education can make a difference in people's lives. That's why we offer scholarship opportunities to all eligible students. Whether you're considering a bachelor's, master's, or doctoral degree, our teams will walk you through the process and help you get the savings you are eligible for. Furthering your education is an investment in yourself. Entonces, ¿qué estás esperando? Un futuro diferente está más cerca de lo que crees con Capella University. Learn more at capella.edu.

5:04called the Nutrition Hub. Plus, there are loads of opportunities to try something new on our centre stage. And you can listen to some beautiful poetry at our expressive arts area too. Loads to look forward to. So make sure you keep an eye out on the Happy Place socials tomorrow for our big guest name announcement. I cannot wait to see you gorgeous lot at this year's Happy Place festivals in the summer. Get your tickets now at happyplaceofficial.co.uk forward slash festival. All right, let's do it. Here's the show.

6:02Hi, Radhi. Hi, Fez. So nice to be here. I'm laughing because I had just then the most shambolic start to a podcast ever by basically breaking a camera nearly, by flinging my arms around and all sorts of drama going on. But it's so good to see you. What I was trying to do when I was gesticulating with my arms is show you that I've picked my most joyful jumper. I love it. It made me feel happy. It's a celebration of your book. Seeing you in the colour and then hugging you and smelling you. I got so much joy just from that, so thank you. Pleasure. We've just had a whole perfume discussion off mic because we're both perfumaholics.

6:36Oh, it smells so good. I love, love smelling things. Scents make such a difference to everything. Everything. Yeah. I can fancy someone just from how they smell. Yeah, yeah, they walk past you. You're like, who is that person? I know, heaven. So let's talk about more relevant things. First of all, you're back in the UK. You've been in LA for how long now? Gosh, we've been in LA for living there nearly five years. Oh, wow. Yeah, five years. So when you come back, what are your must haves? What are your things that you have to do? People you have to see, sites you have to visit. What are you eating?

7:06What are you doing? No, my family laughs so much because the first thing I want to do, and this is going to sound so, I don't know whether it'll sound weird, but I want to go to Tesco. I'm not joking. I want to go to Tesco or like a Waitrose and I want to walk around and I want to see what's new on the, like I just want to walk around places that feel familiar. So all the things that all my friends feel is the lamest thing that they want to do, I want to do it as soon as I get there. So usually if I arrive in the morning, me and my dad are strolling through Tesco by the evening. I love this. So Tesco and then my mum's food.

7:36Oh my gosh, that evening, whatever she makes, she's like, what do you want me to make? I'm like, anything from your hands because it is just the best food. So eating my mum's food. I probably within minutes of landing, I go to see my grandma because she is just joy personified and she makes me so happy and she always awaits me whenever she knows I'm landing. Is this your grandma that's pictured in the book? Yes. she's gorgeous isn't she she's 90 years old 90 she is 90 and she is just like glowing with beauty and she is just a very like a very extremely joyful person throughout her life so it really shows through her and I have this this tradition with my nephew and niece where since they can remember they're 8 and 5 now and I surprise them every time I'm coming home so I never tell them when I'm coming I do different things so last year when I came in December it was a unicorn outfit and I was hiding in the woods.

8:28You were dressed as a unicorn. Oh yeah. Brilliant. This year I was dressed as an older woman, like a full grandma outfit. And I knocked on their door saying that I was from the local library collecting money for charity and they bought it. They invited me in for cookies and tea. And so those are probably the things that I do when I arrive in the UK. What a lovely, wholesome list. Yeah. It's just wonderful. I love the UK. I totally get that walking around a supermarket thing. Thank you. Because if I'm anywhere, it could be somewhere in Europe or if I go to the States, I love browsing the aisles and going, what are all these weird different things and trying stuff?

9:03It's so exciting. Yeah, it's the best. I love walking down aisles. I remember when me and Jay started dating, he kept trying to take me to all these fancy places. And then I was like, you do realise one of my favourite dates would be just me and you going to like a Tesco, walking and strolling down the road. Like, that's all I need. He was like, God, that would have been so much cheaper. I know, you're so low maintenance. I love it. So let's talk about your family. because in the book you say that you got into cooking through your mum and you've just described there that she makes these delicious meals.

9:31What are your memories as a kid growing up watching her cook? She, you know, breakfast, lunch and dinner was always homemade. She had a full-time job, as most of our mums had, but she just poured her love through food. Like there would be no lunchbox that didn't have something homemade. There would be no breakfast that we had without. She was so into health, she would make us like green juices, which I would, by the way, pour into the plants outside because I was like, I don't want this disgusting drink. and then as soon as we got home she would be cooking and she would make us food even though she'd been working all day and it wouldn't just be food it would be experimenting in the kitchen like she would she would try different things from places we'd travel to she would experiment with different recipes she's seen and it would always be colorful and vibrant and just filled with flavor and so I really feel like from her and my grandma who both cook like that I feel like it just went into my bloodstream because of the amount of love that they poured into food for all of us so I think it really like that connection is what kind of guided me without me realizing through the path that I've taken yeah it's one of the parts that I loved about the book is that feeling of joy from food and having that connection with it because for most of us we're rushing around and everything's so fast-paced and we're like oh I'll quickly grab this and I'll scoff it in two seconds and we don't even realize we've eaten it we're like oh god I just ate that in four seconds flat what's going on yeah we've lost that sort of slowness and also the enjoyment of the process itself but it feels like because you grew up with a real understanding whether you were aware of it or not as a kid that there was an importance around food that's in you whether you like it or not yeah and I completely agree I feel like we're so disconnected from our bodies not not everyone but a lot of us are purely because of the speed that we're living at we're almost living outside of our body.

11:19We're just kind of all we're going through things very mechanically and robotically where your body doesn't even realize, like you said, you're eating like a sandwich while you're working, while you're talking. And you're not even giving giving your body the opportunity to realize that, oh, I'm about to eat. Like before you don't sometimes even look at the food that you're eating, you grab it, it's in your mouth, you're doing something else. And so, you know, in Ayurveda, which is something that I speak about in the book, it says that your digestion starts from the moment you look at food from the moment your eyes see the food that's when your digestion starts and then there's a whole process you have to go through before the food even gets to your body to let your body know because our body is an instrument like it has different mechanisms that work and so when you're you have to give it an opportunity to get everything running and going so the enzymes on your tongue the digestive enzymes in your stomach when you interact with the food it tells your body oh now it's time to eat let me start producing all of this so that I can digest this food well and we've kind of disconnected from that process it was really interesting learning about Ayurvedic living reading the book because I think the problem for many of us is we're really confused there is so much information out there at the moment and even if you go onto Instagram you'll see four different podcasts five different memes eight different reels saying never eat this thing again or make sure you eat eight almonds a day to not get this and it's like wait sorry I can eat nuts or I can't eat nuts and is wheat bad or is it okay like everyone's so bloody confused and actually what I like about the Ayurvedic system is that there are rules and they're not to be restrictive and they're not to keep you confined in this place where you can't veer off and try new things but there is a set of values that you're certainly following so can you tell us in terms of food what that means for you and also your interpretation of how you use ayurvedic living with your cooking yeah absolutely you know i i completely agree with the amount of information out there by the way and how everything ends up feeling like a trend yeah and that's why in the book i really wanted it to feel like it's not almost telling you what to do it's showing you how you can listen to your body to understand what you need because like you said there's you know you have you go online and there's this person telling you this salad is the best salad you're gonna have in your life it's gonna give you a six-pack abs it's gonna make your gut feel amazing it's gonna do this it's gonna and then you start eating that salad and then that salad hurts your stomach but you're like no it's meant to make me feel amazing I'm gonna eat this salad and it's gonna make me feel good and you keep eating it you keep ignoring your own bodily cues until your body starts instead of starts having to shout at you to tell you something is wrong and so what I hope with what I've shared in the book about Ayurveda is that it doesn't tell you that you should or shouldn't be doing this.

14:06It tells you, hey, this is how you can tune into your body to really listen to it, to really understand it. So you stop listening to other voices around you and other people's bodies because we're all so individual. And that's why I fell in love with Ayurveda because it is such an individual practice. It's not one size fits all. It's not you eat this salad and I eat this salad and it's going to make us feel exactly the same. It's, oh, when my body is telling me this what does it mean how do I tune into that when I'm eating this food how should it make my body feel so it's really learning about your own body to then understand what are the external things and the internal things that I should be doing to give myself optimal health and that will be different to so many people that are around me my family members my friends of course yeah some people will be able to digest certain foods with much more ease than others and we've got to I think what we've lost is our intuition around food and we're we've like you say yeah we're disconnected to what does this feel like and what I like about Ayurvedic living again and it's something I learned from the book is that you're actually looking at symptoms that we don't necessarily recognize in the west so we're not going oh my gosh this person's in extreme pain over here or this person's severely bloated you're looking at dull skin brittle hair things that we would just go oh I'm just a bit knackered but actually that is a sign that we might need to tweak something or look at something.

15:26Yeah in Ayurveda it says that there are seven stages of disease and so the way that Ayurveda works is let's catch them at one or two not when it gets to the point of the disease or the condition in western medicine where we start diagnosing it as something. A lot of times western medicine gets to the point of disease before we treat so we're curative rather than preventative. And so a lot of the symptoms that I speak about, they're actually in the stage one, two, that's your body whispering like, hey, there's something wrong. Like, look, I'm showing you there's a little bit wrong that's, you know, in the body.

15:58And then you get more and more and more. And eventually when you get to the point of disease, that's your body shouting at you. And so there are so many little signs. And I always think with food, if you think about what food's supposed to do to you, it's meant to nourish you. And what does that mean? It means it gives you energy. It makes you feel like you've got vitality in your body. It allows you to do everything that you want to do in the day, whether it's looking after your children, whether it's working a full-time job, whether it's doing the workouts that you want to do. Food is meant to nourish your body, and that means it gives you energy.

16:30It doesn't take it away. So when you're eating a meal afterwards, think, how has this made me feel? Am I feeling dull, heavy, lethargic after this meal or am I feeling uplifted and ready to live my day? Because just that will be an indication of whether the food you're eating is doing the right thing for your body. And I think we actually feel that way a lot. You know, you eat lunch and you're just feeling slumpy and sluggish. That might mean you need a bit of activity after your meal. That might mean you need to eat a little bit less for your meal. That might mean the food that you're eating or the components of your meal aren't, you know, balanced in the right way.

17:03But there are so many signs of your body telling you that we just kind of end up, you know, not recognising them. Or maybe we just don't know because we haven't been taught it. Yeah. And I think, like you say, because, well, we're quite distracted as well, aren't we? We're on our phones and we're so busy that we don't stop to go, wait, this actually feels uncomfortable or something doesn't feel right. Like even recently, my lips have been so dry. Like, and I know we have crap weather here in the winter, so that doesn't help. We're not in that like glorious sunshine getting the vitamin D we need.

17:31My skin's felt quite tight. My lips have been dry and I was like, whoa, something's going on here. And I've been slightly more conscious to go, right, I probably need some really good fats in me, like more avocado and nuts and nut butters and things that I know are going to, and it's common sense, but I think a lot of the time we just go, oh, as if that's going to make any difference. We sort of palm it off, like as if these simple tweaks are going to make a difference. But it seems the simple things, whether it's food or lifestyle choices, are the foundation, they are the bedrock of us feeling simply okay and probably having the headspace to have the awareness that something's a bit off.

18:07And I think we have this habit of adding things a lot, where it's like, oh, if I'm feeling this way, that must mean I have to add a probiotic and a prebiotic and vitamins and supplements and a protein shake and this. But actually, I think what we have to do is strip it all back. Like, if you really feel like you're disconnected from your body and you notice that there's lots going on, start by simplifying. Don't start by adding things in. because what's happening, you already have a lot that's going on. And so the best thing to do is start, instead of hearing and adding, start taking things away and noticing what makes a difference in that way.

18:38So I personally have found, like, even when I was a dietician in a hospital, whenever I'd have people coming in with IBS or, you know, with gut issues, the first thing we would do is do a... Like an extraction? Yeah, or... I can't remember the name, but essentially you take out a lot of things from your diet. Eliminate. Elimination diet, yes, thank you. An elimination diet where you just start taking things out. And by the way, this isn't just about food. It's about the activities that you do. It's about the things that you're listening to. Everything that you're allowing into your senses has the ability to affect your health.

19:10And so start by simplifying and then add things back in to notice how did this make me feel or not feel. And it sounds like a complicated process, but it's actually not. Like spend a week doing that where you start taking things out. And then every day, whether it's a food, whether it's an activity, adding it into your life to start creating a routine that actually supports what you want to do. Yeah. And again, just it's the intuition bit, isn't it? Because like reading your book and by the way, I've cooked so much from it. Have you? Oh, mate, we made the mud pie for UK Mother's Day. And I was like, I don't know how I'm not going to eat the whole thing in one go.

19:46It was the tastiest thing ever. I'm glad you made it. The curried butternut squash soup I've made about 10 times. Really? Oh, mate, I'm loving it. It's absolutely brilliant. Oh, thank you. But reading your book definitely made me stop and go, right, how am I feeling? Because like I said, my skin's been a bit weird and dry. And then I can get in the habit of going, running is really working for me at the moment. So I'm just going to get up and I'm going to run every day as much as long as I can and for a long duration of time. And then this week I thought, I am so tired. and actually what I want to do is some really slow yoga.

20:22I love yoga and I don't want to push myself and batter myself. And again, I think this is where all the information we see online is so confusing because it's like, do this workout and this will happen or get up every day, fast yourself and then run. And it's like, wow, we are actually battering our bodies and we've forgotten to be really gentle with ourselves. Instead of letting our body direct us and listening to it, we let our mind made the decisions for us and sometimes like I think that's what yeah but I also you know when I've been reflecting on it I've realized it's because a lot of us are not taught this from a young age we're taught to listen to other people whether it's at school whether it's at the doctors you know it's not it's not told to us that when you're feeling unwell sit with yourself for a second and really just listen like take a second take a deep breath and hear what's happening in your body we're told book a doctor's appointment and go and have somebody else tell you what's wrong with you and I completely understand for certain things we have to do that but for a lot of things it can be a self-reflection process of what does my body need and by the way you may sit there and be like I have no idea right now my body's telling me nothing but it will if you give an opportunity to it's been so used to you not listening that it stopped telling you and so I think it's it's starting that process there is never like it's never too late to start listening to yourself and start listening to your body and the more you do the more it will it's the same as a partner or a child that you're talking to if you stop listening they'll stop saying they'll stop talking um and so as soon as you give someone the space or the opportunity to actually communicate with you it will start communicating with you your recipes are all plant-based as well why does that work for you i've been eating plant-based i don't know how many years five years probably and I'm really enjoying still learning new recipes and certainly like desserts like the mud pie which feels extremely indulgent and creamy and you would never know there's no dairy in there why plant-based first of all you have to try the baklava cheesecake I made it yesterday I haven't done that yet oh you have to that's next on my list um why plant-based so I was born and raised vegetarian my family and my generations of family have been vegetarian and then um when I was I think it was about 10 years ago my sister read Eating Animals by James Safran and I she's four years older than me and I always found her very cool growing up and I was like I'm doing whatever she's doing I'm turning vegan and she was like no you're not like you need to know why you're doing it so I read the book and um I guess really for me at the time it boiled down to I can't allow my satisfaction to trump another being's suffering like that's honestly what it came down to for me so whether it was like the clothes I was wearing or the food I was eating it just it just I couldn't digest that thought and so I did it very slowly I cut out cheese last because mature cheddar cheese was everything I used to love it so much um and I think that's what really helped me stick to it was I didn't just say from tomorrow I'm doing none of this I cut things down slowly I found alternatives I found a way to instead of eating just carbs on my plate, which is what a lot of people end up going to, how can I incorporate different vegetables and make them taste good and use spices and coming from the culture that I do, we're already so used to using a lot of plant-based things.

23:38And so it was an easy, easier transition for me than I'm sure someone who's eaten meat before. But after that, it was just about experimenting and learning how to keep fun and joy in the kitchen. And that's honestly what keeps you, I think there's one thing that can make you turn to a plant-based diet or even plant-based days but then trying to stick to it is a little bit of work like you have to learn flavor and you have to learn how to add that into your life and how to add that into your kitchen and I think that's what's really kept me on this journey and I've honestly never looked back like I've never felt better yeah same I was lucky also that I had been a veggie from a very young age so the transition was certainly easy there's still things to get used to and navigate but i'm now in the swing of it but that's why i love reading plant-based cookbooks because you just get so many new ideas did you find the transition hard for your body or did your body respond well no my body was kind of fine with it i mean i was eating a ton of plant-based stuff anyway so it was almost just like sticking to it rather than a total overhaul yeah

24:40the market's uncertain revenues tied and hiring on hold that's why results driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead, no rigid long-term contracts, just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. If you're a smoker or vapor ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zinn Nicotine Pouches, you'll discover many good reasons.

25:20Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand. Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction. But there's only one Zinn. Check out Zinn.com slash find to find Zinn at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. You're invited to spend an evening on Fremont Avenue. For generations, this house has been home to soulful music, good food, and cutthroat card games, saints and sinners, unexpected laughs and unspoken truths, good times, hard times, and of course, family. Always family. So pull up a chair and join us at Fremont Avenue, a world premiere play only at Arena Stage.

26:06Performances start October 8th. Tickets at arenastage.org. At Capella University, we believe accessible education can make a difference in people's lives. That's why we offer scholarship opportunities to all eligible students. Whether you're considering a bachelor's, master's, or doctoral degree, our teams will walk you through the process and help you get the savings you are eligible for. Furthering your education is an investment in yourself. Entonces, ¿qué estás esperando? Un futuro diferente está más cerca de lo que crees con Capella University. Learn more at capella.edu.

26:45One thing that I had no clue about that I feel is really integral when it comes to talking about Ayurveda, food and living, are these three modes of living. Satva, is it rajas? Rajas, yeah. And tamar. and going back to looking at your decisions around eating plant-based one of the things that I maybe misunderstood or had underestimated was looking at the the vibration of a food so if you've got meat and that animal has been slaughtered for the meat that what we're saying here is that that food product has a low vibration there's pain or trauma or suffering within that piece of food so you're ingesting that so tell us a bit more about that concept because that's all new to me so a sattva means mode of goodness rajas means mode of passion tamasic means mode of ignorance and so those are the modes that in ayurveda they categorize not only the food that you're eating but again everything that you allow into your senses everything around us lives within these three modes whether it's essentially going to uplift us body mind or spirit or whether it's going to deplete us.

27:54And so foods, when you're talking about foods in those categories, if you think of mode of goodness, it's what we were talking about. What can bring vitality? And in Ayurveda, it's called ajas. It's considered like the vitality, the golden juice in your body that's produced from all the good food that you eat. There's like a nectar that's produced in the body and that nectar flows through your blood and your veins. And that's what creates the external glow, the healthy hair, healthy skin, the good quality nails and strength in your body, but also vigor and vitality in the body. So when you're eating foods in the mode of goodness, which are, I mean, if anybody can think of what they would think, what in your mind, think of what you would think of a food in the mode of goodness.

28:33It's fresh fruits and vegetables, all the foods that feel like they've still got the brightness and the freshness in them. Basically anything that's, The closer it is to where it came from. So when you pick an apple from a tree, the freshness and vitality in that apple will never be the same as one bought in a store. And so essentially the closer it can be to the point of being still connected to nature, that's going to have the most amount of vitality and goodness for your body. And then mode of passion are the foods that stimulate your body. And so it would be considered like caffeine, sugar, the spices that invigorate your body.

29:11So they're not necessarily bad for you. Nothing in Ayurveda is considered good or bad. It's how it affects your body. And so spices like cayenne pepper and ginger, they're actually very stimulating. They get your blood flowing. And so it actually creates a lot of energy in your body. And so those are considered mode of passion because they are the things that create passion in the body too and in the mind. And then mode of ignorance are basically the foods that feel lifeless. So deep fried food, for example, is part of that category. When you deep fry vegetables or anything, it loses all its nutrients.

29:40It's basically dense with no vitality left in it. And in the same way, when you think about animals, animals have life in them, full force life in them. They have the nutrients that they're eating from the grass and the vegetables that they're eating. But if you think about our bodies, we've all heard that you actually hold suffering in different parts of your bodies. You hold it in your organs, your tissues. You get aches and pains in your physical body from emotions that are trapped in the body. So in the same way, imagine a chicken that has been kept in a, you know, a cage its whole life where it's been probably hurt and nipped out and fed with the most, you know, horrible things, the chemicals, whatever it is.

30:24Same with cows when you're drinking the milk. They're kept in such terrible conditions. so then imagine and I don't like giving this but imagine you were eating the flesh of a human that had been through that that suffering that had been through abuse that had been through mental and physical abuse constantly non-stop that had been given no sunlight that was just in terrible conditions and I'm explaining it so people can really think about it as a relative to them so imagine eating that meat and what you would be feeling from that flesh from from experience even energetically when you meet someone that's been through suffering that's in a low mood that's got low energy do you not feel that from them from just being next to them let alone eating their flesh and so when you eat animal flesh you have to also realize that life has left them and so not only are we eating the remnants and the suffering of their energetic body but then we're eating the corpse of something that no longer has life left in it so where are the nutrients where is where is anything that's everything that was good with that animal has officially left the body and so as soon as we start disintegrating from the moment the soul leaves the body from the moment that we die we're disintegrating as we go on in life like that's just part of what life is and then and then your life leaves your body and then and then it can it starts degenerating at a faster pace so then imagine the meat that you're then getting in a store what that's doing to your body and what that what's even left in it yeah um i'm sorry for the the extreme description but I always think about this.

31:51I think it's up for discussion. It's for everyone to sort of mull over and think about. And like you say, you can do plant-based days if it feels too overwhelming or it doesn't feel like it's for you. But I think it's a really interesting consideration and something that I knew very little about. So learning about Ayurveda has been really eye-opening to sort of think about food at another level, not just how it tastes and how it's making you feel, but actually the energetic value of those products. So I think it's really, really interesting. And also you combine into that the 24-hour clock and how and when we should be eating.

32:29Now, I find this really fascinating because I think many of us suffer with poor sleep. Many of us are so stressed out the whole time and we're eating at weird times of day because we're trying to fit it around work. Absolutely. Some people out there are, you know, working regular nights. People with young babies. Absolutely. Not even young babies. my kids still wake up all the time in the night and you're like all over the shop how can we try and work with this natural rhythm and the 24-hour clock when we know that things are a bit out of balance or off-center timing wise yeah good question so the 24-hour clock that I speak about in the book is all to do with the rhythm of nature and so I always say that we don't live in nature we are part of it and so just as the moon and the sun set and rise that's how our body works too And so the sun is what our digestion is considered, is referred to as like a digestive fire.

33:23And so in the morning, if you think about when you're waking up, your digestion has been dormant almost for about eight hours, let's say, if people have been sleeping. And so instead of loading on lots and lots in the morning, it says you should stoke your digestion. So having something lighter in the morning to kind of get your body ready and prepared before you're, because your digestive fire is essentially dampened during the night. And so you kind of have to, just like you would stoke a fire with small pieces of wood, you have to stoke your digestion in the morning. And so if you think about where the sun is at that point, it's just about rising.

33:55And then the sun gets to its peak and its highest in the afternoon. And that also is mimicked in our body where our digestion is the strongest in the afternoon. And so in Ayurveda, it's recommended to have our largest meal then. And so for anybody, even if you're doing nights, I feel like with that you have to adjust your body to that rhythm but almost invert it where you're still you're still what it is it's about regulation that's that's how I put it down we have gotten so used to living with our senses where we where we bow down to our senses and we're like oh my body wants to eat this now and this here and and wants to go and do this right now but instead instead of them controlling us we have to reverse it where we're in control of our senses And so actually, even if you're trying to live within the rhythm of nature and you can't do that because of the work that you do, instead try regulation.

34:46And so that means, am I eating at the right times, enough time between the meals? That's really important because when you end up eating over and over again and like snacking in between and having lots of meals, your digestion doesn't get the opportunity to digest what was already in there. And so you just keep adding and adding. And so Ayurveda recommends three hours between meals. So even if you're able to do your breakfast, you have at least a three hour gap, you have your lunch, three hour gap, and then you eat your dinner. And if you're awake during the night, you have that same rhythm, but you stick to that.

35:19And so rhythm just means it can be a personal rhythm. It doesn't necessarily have to be a nature rhythm. But having a methodical way to actually eat and receive nourishment is really important for your body because we're essentially a mechanism to like we like regularity, even if we think we don't. Yeah, I mean, if I was led by my senses, I'd literally eat buttered toast all day. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because it's the best meal available. Buttered toast, there is nothing better than buttered toast. Wait, are you a Marmite person? No. Okay, no, no Marmite. I might go peanut butter, but just butter on toast, I don't see how it's beatable.

35:55No, it really isn't. It's so good. With a nice soup on the side to dip, little soldiers. Yeah, fine, but even just on its own. Just the buttered toast. I can't think of anything I'd rather eat at any time of the day. Yeah, bread is always my food of choice. It's so good. But what I like is that we have to apply some discipline and we have to apply looking at this natural rhythm and knowing that it will benefit us, our energy levels and our vibrancy and for all of those outward symptoms to be minimised as much as possible so that we feel comfortable. I think it's about comfort, isn't it? You know, no one wants to feel bloated.

36:26No one wants to have dry, itchy skin or to have an irritable bowel. We want to feel comfort. So if we work with these natural rhythms and our intuition, we're going to help to minimize all of this stuff and make it bespoke, make it for you. So also the other thing I thought was really interesting that I had no clue about was you don't use onion or garlic in Ayurveda. Tell us why. So. Because I put it in everything. I know. Especially garlic. Yeah, totally. I'm just like garlic. I love it. I have frozen bags of it and I'm just like any meal. Yeah. Why no garlic? In Ayurveda, it says that everything can be medicinal.

37:00It just depends how much you use of it. So onion and garlic actually have extreme medicinal properties. It was used as medicine back in the day, like in potent quantities. But for a lot of us, we end up using things in excess. And when you use onion and garlic in excess, it's actually considered raj-sikh. So it ends up creating a lot of heat and intensity in the body. And so even if you think about someone with IBS, as soon as they go to an IBS clinic, the first thing they're told is the FODMAP diet. And that includes onion and garlic, where it actually can end up irritating the gut. and creating gas and bloating in the body because of how strong it is.

37:34And so we've learned now to make it the base of everything. So I kind of challenged myself on how can we create food that can still taste delicious and wonderful without constantly using the onion and garlic as the base. And it allowed me to explore spices. And spices are not only adding flavor to your food, they are medicinal. Like I turn to my spice box as my medicine box and how to heal my body every single day. I see it as like protective armor where you can throw spices into your food, into the water you're drinking. And honestly, it helps to boost your digestion, improve your immunity externally, internally.

38:13Like spices give so much life to your body. And so that was one reason. And then energetically, it says, however your body reacts is also how your mind reacts. And so for someone who wants to meditate and practice yoga, having foods too much in the mode of ignorance or passion can end up overstimulating your mind too. And so that's the reason. Wow. Yeah. I honestly had, I learned so much from reading this. So let's talk about meditation and yoga. You're a 5 a.m.er. I am a 5 a.m.er. Is this every damn day? Yeah, pretty much 5, 5, 5.30. I think my body's just gotten used to waking up early. So even if I go to sleep late, my body's still, you know, waking me up by, I think I went to sleep at one yesterday because I had an event and then woke up at six.

38:56Yeah, I mean, I can't sleep past six. It's like almost impossible. Yeah, exactly. That's probably more to sort of do with my kids rather than a meditation program that you've got going on. So you're 5 a.m. up. Meditate straight away? No, so I will brush my teeth and normally get some hot water or like a tea or something. Then I'll sit down to do my meditation. I usually like picking a space wherever I am just to create like I think you know spaces and different places can create different energies for you and so even if I remember living in a like 700 square foot apartment in New York and even then it would be by the window I just had a little pillow that I would sit by and I knew that that's where I would sit and do my meditation and so I'd wake up and do that and I just actually that reminded me of what you said about discipline because I think we grow up thinking that discipline is restrictive but actually discipline creates so much freedom in your life because you're not controlled by anything.

39:50You are able to stick to something and it allows you to actually feel free in the way that you move. And people see it in a different way. Like you think discipline means restriction and it just doesn't. I found the more disciplined I've got, the more free I felt in my mind. And I think meditation has allowed me to do that too. Having a regular practice that I go to no matter where I'm traveling, no matter what place I'm in it allows me to commit something to myself which builds not only discipline but also I think committing to things allows you to love yourself so much more like I built so much more when I the most insecure times in my life have been when I've had no discipline in my life because I haven't committed to anything I haven't it's like committing to a relationship you know you're just constantly telling yourself you're going to do something and then you don't do it and it really lowers your self-esteem.

40:40And so meditation was probably the first thing I really stuck to in my life and felt like I was able to commit to. And that slowly started building so much more in me that I even realized it was me committing something to myself. So I wake up, do my meditation, and I do mantra meditation. It is, man means mind, and tra is the word in Sanskrit translates to transcend. And so it really helps you to essentially transcend and move out of your mind and your body for a short period of time to really connect to a place that's hopefully a little bit deeper in you. It's a gorgeous start to the day. It is.

41:19And you know why I wake up so early?

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42:46Honestly, it's because of how the moon's energy, when the sun comes up, that's it. We are ready to go and we are roaring. It brings that energy of go, let's start this day and get moving. Whereas the energy of the moon, like if you can wake up and just catch a glimpse of it it is so soothing and calming to the mind that actually starting your day just a little bit before where you get it where you feel like the world is still sleeping it can give so much to you so even if you're a mom and you wake up maybe five minutes earlier than your kids wake up i wake up 45 minutes earlier on purpose every day just so i can be sane totally i just stand in my kitchen in silence going this is my time this is my time exactly the cats are being a bit annoying and they're there but it's bar that it's like it's essential I'll go mad if I didn't do that no totally I always get messages saying this is a like a routine for someone before kids wait do you have kids and I'm like it doesn't have to be an hour like honestly it can be five minutes earlier set your alarm five minutes earlier sit with yourself take deep breaths and that's it like it doesn't have to be a whole ordeal it doesn't have to be doing the 5am routine from beginning to end pick one thing that you do for yourself that's essentially what it is it's you connecting back to you for a small moment before the world takes over and like you say you're accountable for your own actions I like this notion of you say you're going to do something and you do it I always have it like I've been reading a book about running at the moment and I can like run a lot or not run at all but actually so it's a book by Adele Roberts who I'm interviewing soon and she has run several marathons but the last one she did was post her having bowel cancer so she has a stoma and she's the first person that's well She's, I think, the fastest marathon runner to have a stoma.

44:28And it's just so brilliant because she set herself this goal of I'm going to do it. So she got herself training, even though there was pain, discomfort and challenges. And I was like, wow, I think that is actually why we like putting challenges before ourselves, because we go, oh, I did it. I said I was going to do it and I did it. And it's not the fact that you've just run a marathon or you've meditated for a whole month every day. is the fact that you know that you're accountable and you've shown up. I think that is the joy. That is a lovely feeling when you stick to something. Way better than those little dopamine hits.

45:01Like it's kind of like you're giving yourself longevity of joy rather than like those little things that you do that make you feel a little bit good for short periods of time. It's almost like you're building up the joy in a slow way, which then ends up being more sustainable. Yeah, I agree. But we're so addicted to that, like quick dopamine hit. I know. Look at our phones or get some gossip or whatever. and it's just it peaks and then it troughs really really quickly it's not great interesting to hear you talk about purpose as well because I was watching a video of you from I think it was quite a while back but you were talking about a time in your life where you felt purposeless and you didn't know what direction you were moving in you had no confidence you're actually extremely emotional sort of thinking about that feeling of just I'm a bit lost I don't know what I'm doing how did you and I know there's also another part of this story I'll get into in a minute which is sort of you moving from student to teacher but how did you find that purpose because this feels like more than a book more than an Instagram account you're on a bit of a mission here to show people that we can use preventative tools to help ourselves stay healthy and feel vibrant rather than relying on things that are more cure-led so where where did this passion start and how did you gain momentum to actually create this purpose that you now feel you have?

46:13One thing was definitely starting to commit more to myself. I feel I think I felt so disconnected to my purpose because I had no idea who I was. I had not spent any time to actually get to know who I was, what I wanted, who I wanted to be in this world, to my friends, to my family, to my partner, like there there had been no self-reflection done. And I think that's why I felt so lost, because it wasn't because I didn't feel like I had a job. I could have had it. I could have worked as a dietitian I had I had worked as a dietitian by that point I already had titles and responsibilities but I actually didn't know whether they were making me happy and I think it was because I had spent a lot of my life listening to what other people thought I should be doing because I was lazy I didn't want to do the work to figure it out and so I thought everybody else knew better than I did for myself and I think that the sadness came from me realizing I actually had I knew who other people were way more than I knew who I was.

47:13I didn't know what I liked. I didn't know what I didn't like. Everything was molded by everybody else around me. And so I think I had a realization that I'm in this body and I have no idea who I am. And so it took people having to say no when I asked them to make a decision for me. Jay used to do that for me all the time. And he would be like, no, you know how to do this. You know how to. You don't need me to tell you. it took me getting really angry at those people being like I don't know I need help why are you not helping me and it wasn't that they weren't helping me they were trying to help me help me um and so it was it took a lot of crying and and writing out all the things about myself that I actually realized I did not like and where it was rooting from what you said about the negativity um how we feed off it I I know that when I'm at my lowest points and now this is an indicator for me when I'm I realize that I'm going off track is when I start feeding off negativity in other people's lives and by that I mean when I start indulging and salvating over gossip of other people when I start finding that juicy and it starts say satiating me I'm like there is there is a disconnect happening and we all do it we all do it of course we do human quality but it's not a great sign but we all we can all fall into that trap of course we can but it's also an indication that maybe I'm not happy right now.

48:36Because when I'm finding other people's downfalls, a place of joy for myself, that's an indication that maybe something isn't right with me because that's not where I should be finding my joy. And so I started noticing little triggers and where I was, like I wanted to live with, I noticed I was not living with so much integrity where my words weren't meeting my actions for myself. And so I just had to start committing to things. So I started saying yes to things that I would normally say no to. I started exploring a lot more. I used to live within my own safety zone and comfort. And most of the time, comfort isn't what's good for you.

49:09It's just what you're used to. And so I kept sticking to the things I was used to, even though they weren't necessarily what's best for me. And so I started kind of venturing out slowly out of my comfort zone and making myself feel a little bit nervous and anxious. and but then fulfilling those things and realizing wow I did that and then I started getting to know myself of maybe I did that and I liked it but I don't doesn't mean I have to do it again but at least I know I've done it and I've tried and so it was a lot of committing to myself starting to make decisions for myself starting to observe myself and how I feel in certain situations and the things that I do and so I'd say observation was where I had to start looking at myself from the outside in and seeing what is it and journaling like not journaling dear diary but journaling of this is the things that happened in my day this is what I did that I was really proud of and that I'm happy with and these are the things that I wish I hadn't said and wish I hadn't done and then building on that and growing growing through that and then food was something you know I didn't I feel like I came into it without thinking about coming into it at the beginning my mom told me to do a nutrition degree she was like I think it'll be good for you I want to be a doctor as most Indian people do and I didn't get the grades and so I had no idea what I was going to do.

50:20My mom was like try nutrition it's a new degree it's being like grants from the government. I was like okay great I'll do it but then I realized how much I love feeding people but not just feeding people's like bodies really showing them how to nourish themselves deeply because that's what I did for myself. So every part of that book are things that actually got me from a point of extreme unhappiness to brought me to a point where I feel I can give joy to other people which means I have to have enough in myself to do that and what keeps replenishing that on a daily basis um and that's that's really where it came is from I just feel like I'm a really grateful student of many many great teachers throughout my life and that is really what the book is it's just me sharing those things and I know that there was a huge amount of stepping out of your comfort zone to go from student which you were happily doing and maybe that was more of a comfortable place to, oh God, maybe I could actually use my platform now to teach.

51:15There is a discomfort, I think, in moving lane in any way. I have it certainly in parts of my career where I'm like, is it okay that I do this? Is it okay that I try that? But of course, we've got to give it a go and block out any outside noise and try new things. So what was that transition like from student to now teacher? And what gave you the confidence to do that? What gave me the confidence to do that was honestly one line that kind of triggered everything. It was from one of my spiritual teachers, Radhanath Swami. And he said, when knowledge is useless unless it's shared, because actually when you keep knowledge within you, you start believing it's your own.

51:55And then you get you get ego from it. So you end up building all these things up. I know this. I know this. This is my information. This is my knowledge. And you keep it in you. And that can actually build so much ego inside of you. You start feeling superior because you have all of this information or all of these skills or all these talents, whatever it is. And so when I heard that, I was like, this is so true. I just want to become a student constantly because I felt like I was trying to prove something to myself, that I was trying to prove to myself that I do know things and that I can do this and that I can do that.

52:24Versus, you know, the responsibility we have of being on this earth is a cycle. It's not just we take and then we do nothing back. It's like the symbiotic relationship between us and nature, us and other humans, us and our children, us and our parents. At some point you end up giving back. And so I think that is the responsibility of when you end up having teachers in your life to then somehow share that with other people. And that doesn't mean you have to do it at a large scale. It's like I remember doing it at university that my mom had taught me how to cook. And so I was cooking for my friends who were in the halls with me.

53:02and that in my mind I was like yeah that was me sharing what I'd received from my mum who was one of my teachers and so I think I saw it as more of a way to show gratitude to the people who had taught me how beautiful that I can pass that on to other people in hopes that it helps them the same way it has me and so it helped me be a teacher without feeling like a teacher yeah I mean how do you mitigate imposter syndrome which I think many of us feel yeah I mean it's not easy Walking into a room feeling like you don't belong. Yeah, or even last week my daughter went to me. She'd been doing this whole sort of project at school for, well, Book Day and they were talking about books and she went, are you an author, Mum?

53:39And I was like, I've written a lot of books. I mean, I guess I'm... And in my head I'm like, of course I'm a fucking author. I've written 15 books but I felt like I couldn't say it. I was like, I mean, I guess. I've written some books and blah, blah, blah. there's still an element of imposter syndrome for me saying that but I've got the tangible proof that I have authored lots of books but I think many of us feel when we change career we move lane we go from student to teacher we can't say it we can't own it and go yeah do you know what I'm a bloody author I am a teacher or whatever it might be how have you mitigated that oh I was you know I went through that the other day I was I was changing um I was trying to figure out whether I should change in such a real life situation that happened last week trying to decide whether I should even write on my like Instagram that I was like a New York Times best-selling author and I was writing and I was asking my team I was like does that sound really like in your face and so arrogant no I was like it sounds so arrogant like I can't write this in my bio it feels so like oh this is just what I'm and then they were like but you are and I was like yeah no but it doesn't just feel a bit icky that I'm saying it and I go through that every time I walk into a room every time that I you know I go on a podcast and I'm talking about Ayurveda and I'm such a basic like student of it I've just I've like done a course and it takes your whole lifetime to even figure out what it is and what allows me to do it is seeing myself as a bridge honestly like I don't believe I have all the knowledge we never will believe we have all the knowledge but even if you're able to tell one person something and that takes them to somewhere else and that allows them to start you don't have to be the person that finishes their journey you can be the person to start it and so I think had my teachers decided not to share and had imposter syndrome and felt that way I would have never learned the things I did and so I think I think I stopped myself from feeling like an imposter by thinking of myself as a bridge that I'll help to connect you to the place I'm at and then hopefully I'll like I'll lead you there and then hopefully someone else will lead you further and further and that's just you know we're all part of this system yeah and so we're all giving and taking from each other and so rather than seeing yourself as being a teacher, as being superior.

55:46How about we see all of us as teachers and that we're just giving what we've learned in our life to each other. And so I remind myself of that regularly, that we're just all part of this. Like we're all pieces of a huge puzzle. Yeah, and I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with being an entry level to a subject. Like you taught me tons in your book and I hope that what we're doing with Happy Place, you know, as a brand is a similar thing that we're not necessarily the top, top experts in all areas, but if you're new to you know looking at your own mental health or wellness hopefully we can hold your hand and get you to a place where other people can continue with that journey I think there's there's nothing wrong with that at all we don't have to always supply the most um I don't know extreme studies of a subject it can be let's talk about this subject and introduce you to it and go from there I think you know for me it's a new area I don't know so much about Ayurveda but a lot of it chimed and a lot of it I felt was already kind of resonating with me and I'm sort of intuitively doing bits of it but could do more I think it's really interesting and as I said I've cooked so much from it and it's been completely joyful um and thank you so much for being on the podcast oh Radhi I love you I love this idea of checking in on those little signs brittle hair dull skin Like I said at the moment, my skin is like sort of an old tortoise.

57:10I can't bear it. I don't know what's going on there, but it's definitely a sign that I need to do something. It's a real way to take care of ourselves day to day before our bodies reach absolute breaking point. Radhi, the biggest thank you for your time. Radhi's recipe book, Joyful, is out now, so you can have a good old flick through those gorgeous recipes. I tell you what book you can also get properly stuck into. The List of Suspicious Things by Jenny Godfrey. This is our Happy Place Book Club read for April. I would love it so much if you wanted to read along with us and chat about what you make of this book over on Instagram at Happy Place Book Club.

57:50It's so brilliant. The List of Suspicious Things is a coming-of-age story told through the lens of a 13-year-old girl's search for the Yorkshire Ripper. Miv is terrified that her dad wants to move her down south because of the murders. So she figures if she can solve the case of the disappearing women herself, the family could stay in Yorkshire. Their search uncovers more secrets than they thought possible, but also delved into the strength of friendships and community connections. So at Happy Place Book Club is the place to chat about that one on Instagram. But also I'm going to be chatting to author Jenny Godfrey in a few weeks so you can hear about the book from her, which will be really cool as well.

58:33Look out for that one in your podcast feed. She's actually already told me that one of the Happy Place episodes is what helped convince her to start writing her first book. I'm bloody amazed by that and I'm totally honoured. Oh, thanks, Jenny. We'll let you know which episode it was in particular when we chat to her in a bit. For now, though, it's the biggest thank you again to Radhi, to the producer, Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios, and to you. Oh, and big apologies to Happy Place video guys Josh and Matt for knocking all their cameras around. I promise to keep my arms contained next time.

59:35Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapers. And Zinn is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zinn nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zinn nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine.

1:00:06Nicotine is an addictive chemical. At Capella University, we believe accessible education can make a difference in people's lives. That's why we offer scholarship opportunities to all eligible students. Whether you're considering a bachelor's, master's, or doctoral degree, Our teams will walk you through the process and help you get the savings you are eligible for. Furthering your education is an investment in yourself. Entonces, ¿qué estás esperando? Un futuro diferente está más cerca de lo que crees con Capella University. Learn more at capella.edu.