Rebel Wilson: Emotional eating, virginity, and popularity

0:01Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. This is the show that knows how intimately connected the happiness of our minds and bodies are. Today, I'm chatting to Rebel Wilson. I feel like the weight was like a barrier and in a way it protected me because I felt like I didn't want intimate relationships. I didn't want anyone to find me attractive and I deliberately would make myself more grotesque or whatever and sometimes for comedic purposes. because, I don't know, it was like a protection and a barrier in a way and what it was really doing was preventing true intimacy. The world fell in love with Rebel when Bridesmaids came out and she's gone on to star in huge films like How to Be Single and the Pitch Perfect trilogy.

0:51For decades, she single-mindedly focused on her career, choosing to forgo nurturing relationships in favour of honing her craft. Rebel Rising, gorgeous name, is the title of her new memoir, which follows her all the way from her Aussie upbringing as the daughter of parents who sold pet products to making millions as Hollywood's favourite funny girl. But the thing is, we see the success story now, but her brain was constantly asking the same questions as we all struggle with sometimes. Am I good enough? Will I ever find love? Will I ever change and become healthier? Rebel and I actually got to hang out twice last week, which was so lovely.

1:34I luckily was asked to host Rebel's book launch at the London Palladium, which can I say was just the most joyful evening. Thank you to the brilliant audience who were just up for it and just so welcoming. We had a really beautiful evening. But this Happy Place chat was so lovely because it's even more intimate. We really went to some places. Emotional eating, virginity, popularity. And I think you're going to love getting to know Rebel in a whole new way.

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3:40FIGS are made for the sometimes crazy situations I find myself in. It doesn't matter if I have to squat, sit, bend, or even chase after one of my patients. Figs moves with me and keeps me comfortable in the highest pressure situations. Figs gives me one less thing to worry about. Get 15 % off your first order by visiting wherefigs.com and use code FIGSRX at checkout. That's wherefigs.com, code FIGSRX. I cannot wait for you to hear this chat with Rebel, but first a reminder that you can hear these kinds of chats live at the Happy Place Festival. We do actual podcasts there. We're back at Chiswick House and Gardens and Tatton Park this summer, and we've got some huge guests joining us for live recordings of the podcast.

4:23They are always such a gorgeous experience for all of us to hang out together. We've got other cool live stuff going on, live music on the centre stage, silent discos and creative dance sessions at the Elevate studio. We've got book readings, poetry and spoken word in the expressive arts area too. These tickets are going to go fast, so head to happyplaceofficial.co.uk to get yours, and for you and all of your mates right now. Alright, let's do it. Here's the show.

5:16rebel hi fern hi i'm so excited to see you again i've had you twice in one week i know because we we just crushed the london palladium um doing a little chat and then now i get to be on the podcast which i've been a fan of since the pandemic and when i was losing weight during my year of health i would need stuff to listen to um and i found i don't know something about your voice, the way you interview people, it's so positive and it's so just like soothing to listen to. So as I was going for walks around the Oval, sometimes I just walk in a circle around the Oval and just listen to your podcast.

5:51So I feel like I've listened to pretty much every single episode. So I'm a legit, legit fan. Oh, honestly, that is the best thing ever that I could hear. I'm so, so chuffed and totally honoured. So thank you, Rebel. And I'm so happy to have you as a guest because, as you said, we crushed the Palladium. Oh yeah, geez. You should have seen us, guys. You should have seen us. I crushed it. But we had such a good chat. The audience had questions and then one woman tried to get her boyfriend to propose. Dave. Yeah. This is Dave's second prompt to propose to Vicky. Yeah, Dave. Just do it. Still listening.

6:26Come on, Dave. How's it going? But it was so lovely and we covered a lot, but I feel like because your book Rebel Rising is so packed with life story that there's just so much more that I want to get into in more detail as well. I know you've had an insanely busy week of promo since you've been in the UK. Last night you had your film premiere as well? Yeah, The Almond and the Seahorse, which is very different to my usual big glossy comedies. It's a very serious small British movie about traumatic brain injury with French actress Charlotte Gainsbourg. Love. It's just a brilliant cast. It was based on a play and it's just, I mean, it's so not what you'd expect me to do, but that's kind of why I wanted to do that film.

7:11And we shot up in the north in Liverpool and in Wales. And I just, like, it's such a beautiful movie, so it's great it's getting released in cinemas. Go out to the cinemas. Yeah, I want to see it. If you're in for, like, you know, it's a good, like, Sunday one where you just, like, you know, want to see an adult drama. What did you learn from that experience? I mean, obviously a different ballgame altogether doing something without any humour at all. Well, the one thing that was kind of life-changing was that was the film where I kissed my first woman. So I kissed Charlotte in a scene and I'd never kissed a woman before and to me that was like a pretty big deal.

7:46And, you know, obviously it's acting and you're professional but it's weird, like I kissed her in the scene and I was building it up going, oh, my God, and then I was like, just be cool, Rebel. Don't make it a big deal. And then it wasn't even a big deal. and then that made me think about my personal life and go, oh, you know, maybe it isn't a big deal to kiss a woman and so I have that movie to thank for that experience. Because in the timeline of things, had you met the tennis player at this point? I had. Okay, so you met this tennis player at Wimbledon. Yeah, I had but we hadn't kissed. You had had this sort of, I think you call it a situation shift.

8:26You were sort of texting, emailing, speaking on the phone, meeting up, but nothing ever really quite happened. Yeah, flirting, like going out a few times. But, like, yeah, I guess the kids call it a situationship. A situationship. But this was the first female that you'd been knowingly attracted to. Yeah, which kind of, like, I mean, I didn't think I was 100 % straight, but I definitely knew I was attracted to guys and so that I'd only dated men. And then, God, I was at Wimbledon one day and I saw this woman playing and I was like, oh. And then it was so hot. It was one of those really hot, hot days in London.

9:01Right. You know how you get like those two hot days? Yeah, just literally two. It was one of those two hot days. And I'm sitting there and like the sweat's dripping down the back of my knees as I'm sitting watching his tennis. I'm there with my friend Marissa. Like she really wanted to go drink Pimms and, you know, be in the hospitality suite. And I'm like, no, I have to stay and watch it. And I started feeling like, I don't know. I was like, am I going mad or what's happening? And I'm feeling attracted towards this woman. And I had met her one time before and I was like, oh, I think. And then I texted her after.

9:35But because I was too freaked out by the feelings, she wanted to meet up that night and I just thought, oh, I can't. Like what? Also, there was a complication because I was going on holidays with Barbara Streisand. So I had to leave. Sure. Yeah, to the south of France. Very regular occurrence. Yeah, so this is my life. And so and then I didn't know and then I started feeling all these feelings and then started texting and then just developed this kind of situationship, I would call it, which never led to a proper relationship because she's focusing on her tennis. But I was just, I don't know, I felt this depth of feeling.

10:17It was almost like my heart was a can of tennis balls and it like cracked open a bit from this experience. And I think if I'd never had that and never kissed Charlotte Gainsbourg in the movie, then when it came to be presented with my friend going, you know what, it hasn't been working out with these dudes. Do you want to date a woman? I have a friend, Ramona, and she's great. She like, she speaks five languages. She also has a law degree like you, like maybe you'd get on. And I was like, yeah. Whereas if someone had asked me a few years earlier, I probably would have been too scared. Yeah. I mean, it's a brilliant sort of opening of your mind for you to then be available for that possibility.

10:59And look where your life is now, you know, sort of happily engaged, planning a wedding. You've got a beautiful daughter. Yeah, I know. Life is changing a weird joke about it because, you know, I thought I was almost forever single person and never thought I would find the right person. And I just, I also never thought maybe I could live with somebody because it just never, never seemed to get that comfortable vibe with someone. And then all of a sudden, like here I am with a fiance and a baby, like I have my own family and it's just, it's crazy. And it's crazy how quickly it can happen. But I think all of the work I did on myself in a way led up to this.

11:37And yes, I'm a late bloomer as you'll read about in the book, but I'm like, you know, it did, maybe it just happened when it was supposed to happen. Yeah, it's all timing. It's all down to timing. And like you said, I mean, this book, I probably should have started with this, is, I think, the most honest memoir I've ever read, without a doubt. I found it so refreshing because I thought, oh, I'm getting to know the real rebel here, not the sort of Hollywood shiny version. I'm getting to really know who you are. and due to your self-esteem your self-love which we can get into in a bit but your lack of self-love at this point and also your absolute determination and drive to succeed in your career you weren't really meeting men or women early on yeah like a closed shop yeah it's in the love department but this is the thing that I found so admirable was that you freely talk about losing your virginity at 35 and I just thought how brilliant that you're talking about that for other people out there who either haven't had sex for a long time or haven't lost their virginity yet that feel embarrassment or shame for someone of your you know gravitas and stature to talk about something like this I think is really really important oh thanks like I guess why I did it is to make other people out there which I know there are many, feel less embarrassed about it themselves or feel less alone.

13:04Because I thought at times I thought, oh God, is there something wrong with me? But then there was nothing wrong with me. It was just, you know, I grew up in a conservative Christian family and was, you know, told maybe to wait to have sex until marriage and that kind of stuff. And then I was like, whoa, but hang on. I saw my parents' marriage and thought, I don't want to get married. So I just kind of avoided relationships and was very career focused. And there's lots of women who are just, you know, career focused. And in order to have the career that I've had coming up in Australia and then in Hollywood, I felt like, I mean, I had to have like this Olympic athlete focus.

13:44I thought relationships would just be a hindrance. They would drag me down, you know which might not have been 100 100 true but i don't weirdly regret it and i mean i mean this is embarrassing but i've still had like so much great sex so it's not like i've missed it don't worry people no i haven't i have not missed exactly uh trust me i probably had the normal amount i just started a little bit later and i kind of and i kind of can joke now like you know i didn't have any random stds or anything like that which is a big bonus yeah some people go quite frankly. You know, or, you know, when you're younger and maybe guys didn't quite know how to have sex, you know, in a way that pleased a woman when you're younger.

14:26So I kind of skipped that part. Yeah, you were getting peak age. I know. With these guys. I just came in a peak. Peak age. Yeah. I mean, what was it like approaching that moment, knowing that you hadn't had sex and you were going to have sex for the first time with someone who probably had had a lot of sex before? Yeah, I just, I mean, I did feel really embarrassed about it and that was the part of the book that I was like, Like, oh, do I reveal that? That was the one thing nobody knew because there were other things that are very personal and maybe a couple people knew, but this was something that nobody knew.

14:57And then I was like, you know what, if I'm doing a memoir, I'm just going to do it full out, like how I kind of do everything in my life. And I was like, I'm just going to share everything. And there's many famous people in history that have been virgins their whole life. Apparently Elizabeth I. Elizabeth I. Not that I know. Not that I checked her hymen. But like, you know, I wouldn't be, I don't think it's anything to be embarrassed about. I mean, you know, if anything, I was, I don't know, kept myself pure or something. I don't know. But it's, no, it doesn't matter. People who lose their virginity at any age, it just matters that, you know, it was something you wanted to do.

15:35Without a doubt. That is the most important factor. And another reason why you were keeping people at a distance is because of how you felt about yourself. And also you talk, I mean, you start the book in childhood. And from that point all the way to the end of the book, pretty much, you talk about emotional eating and how you were in these habitual cycles of destructive behavior that you knew weren't really working for you. And that was perhaps keeping you from having sex or dating as well. Yeah, and I know it's hard because you might have seen me in movies and I play a lot of uber confident characters because there is a part of my personality that is super confident about some of my skills and abilities.

16:19I am really confident and that's where I channel that for those characters. But I guess what people didn't know is that in real life I hadn't had sex. They'd probably be shocked if they knew that. It was why going on some dates with people and they met the real me and were like, oh, it's not quite what I thought. So basically I feel like the weight was like a barrier and in a way it protected me because I felt like I didn't want intimate relationships. I didn't want anyone to find me attractive and I deliberately would make myself more grotesque or whatever and sometimes for comedic purposes because, I don't know, it was like a protection and a barrier in a way.

17:03And what it was really doing was preventing true intimacy, which I don't and I don't mean just sex. Like I just mean really deeply connecting with other human beings because I was great in that funny friend role. I was the best. I was the best funny friend you could have. And I was great and felt very comfortable in that. But with intimacy, true emotional intimacy and physical intimacy, I just didn't know what to do. So, I mean, this is a conversation that I think so many people are going to relate to. I was bulimic for about 10 years of my life. So I had super dysfunctional relationship with food and my body and dysmorphia and all sorts of things going on.

17:46And I think most people feel confused about food. Well, food's the hardest thing, don't you think? You have to eat it. Yeah. And I grew up watching Oprah and I think she and I probably have the exact same issues. and food is like, I mean, yeah, you have to. It's not like drugs and alcohol where you can say give it up. Like, come on, because you have to eat. And it's just I just really empathize with anybody who has like disordered eating because I just know what it's like and I'm an emotional eater. I used food to numb myself from pretty much all emotions, not just sadness or, you know, even happiness.

18:25Sometimes I'd go out and have a great night and then I didn't know how to feel great because I had low self-worth. So I was like, oh, well, hang on, I shouldn't be feeling great. Let me just eat some ice cream and numb that down a bit. And I was just using food as a coping mechanism. And at first in my life, like was maybe because of things going on in the household, my dad had anger issues, you know, there was stress about money, things like that. And then later on with my career it was probably like being a naturally introverted person and shy and then having to perform for a living and be in front of people and then becoming famous at 32 and and just like all the kind of pressures with that so it's kind of the things changed as my life progressed but I what remained constant was that I would always use food for comfort food as an emotional crutch It's such a complicated issue, like you say, because you've got to eat.

19:24But also a lot of the time, the comfort eating, and I had this when I was bulimic, is secret in isolation. And there's a lot of shame around it. And you feel like you can't. I mean, I didn't tell anyone. I didn't tell anyone for years after I got better. And I think it's a really tricky one to navigate and to actually break that cycle. because you think, how will I cope without that little bit of time on my own doing that thing that I know makes me feel good for four seconds? Yeah, and like would you like, you'd feel good in the moment but then like almost immediately afterwards you'd be like, why did I do that?

20:00And then you'd tell yourself terrible things about yourself. And I guess the behaviour that I was kind of embarrassed about and felt shame about was, yeah, I lived by myself usually, you know, because I was eternally single. and I would go home at the end of a hard day's work and I'd eat like a whole tub of ice cream or a whole pizza, which was way more calories than what I needed and not healthy, nutritious food. And I would normally sit there mindlessly eating it in front of the television. And then, and I'd feel good in the moment. And then, and then you go, oh, why did I do that? And then I'd wake up the next morning and go, right, you know, you're eating all that crap.

20:40you're going to go to the gym now and you're going to work out for two hours and then I'd go to the gym and I'd do another day's work but then I'd come home that night and do it all again and it was this cycle that I couldn't I just could not seem to get out of. How did you though because it is it's like the most impossible thought like I've got to change and this is a huge change because it's habitual and it's so easy to fall into it but also it feels like an escape It feels like some sort of release that you're not getting elsewhere. So how did you go, right, today's the day, this has got to change?

21:15And I think for me it was additionally complicated because I was now making a career being an overweight comedian, so I was earning millions of dollars for being the way I was. So it was almost more difficult to want to change because I had all these things getting positively reinforced for how I was because I do believe in body positivity and that beauty is at any shape and size. But then I had this kind of shameful secret that I knew deep down I was engaging in some really unhealthy behaviors and that I did want to fix that. So I had tried in the past and shout out to anybody out there who like, you know, tries and they're like, okay, I'm going to be New Year's resolution.

21:58Like this is what I'm going to do. And I had tried and I'd been to like a couple of like health resorts or tried a couple of diets and sure, some of it worked for like a week or two and you'd lose a few pounds and then all of a sudden like just gain it back, you know, and then you feel terrible because you're like, oh, I don't have any willpower and why can I be a person in the world who can have like two degrees from university, can have an amazing career and then yeah, I can't lose weight and I would just feel so down about myself. And then I was turning, I was 39 and about to turn 40 and one of my friends from Pitch Perfect had told me about how she'd frozen her eggs.

22:39And towards my late 30s, I started really feeling that biological clock to have children. And then I thought, oh, so, and I was waiting to maybe find my Disney prince. And then I was like, and it hadn't happened. So I was like, oh, I should go and freeze my eggs like my friend did. And so I go to the fertility clinic in Beverly Hills and there's this doctor that kind of looks a bit like Doc from the movie Back to the Future, like crazy white hair and a lab coat. I love it. Just getting out of his little futuristic car. Yeah, and probably looks up all the vaginas of Hollywood. And anyway, and so I go to him and I say, oh, yeah, I'm interested in freezing my eggs.

23:24And he looks me up and down and he goes, well, you've had a much better chance if you were healthy. And the way he said it, not like he was deliberately trying to be mean, but it was just like that criticism that was just harshly hits you. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm not healthy. I mean, I am living an amazing life, but I know I'm medically obese. Like, that is a fact. and I know I am engaging in these behaviours and they will eventually lead to something serious, even though it hadn't at that point, but something like diabetes, which my father had or something even worse. Like, you know, there's a heart attack, which he did die of.

24:09And so I'm just like it almost was not for myself to lose weight. it was almost for like a future mini me, like a future child. That was the real like thing. And then I thought, okay, 2020, that's going to be my year of health. That's the year I turned 40. I couldn't achieve this goal. And as you'll see in the book, you know, I'm quite a, like I set a goal and then try to achieve it. And I hadn't ever done it with weight loss. But the one thing that I'd never investigated was the emotional reasons, because I just guess in Australia, therapy is not really that big of a thing. And talking about your emotions definitely was like a no-no in my family growing up.

24:57Now it's a bit different. And I just, the real kicker was talking to a doctor, which actually Anne Hathaway had introduced me to, and going, oh, I think this doctor might be able to help you. And he dealt with how your emotions can affect your physical health. And I just never thought about it like that. I never thought that. I just thought it was just about eating right and exercising and consuming less calories. And of course, you have to consume less than what you burn in order to literally lose weight. But what was stopping me was the emotional things of why I was eating like that in that disordered way.

25:38And so once I started working on the emotional side of things and bringing up all sorts of things that I write about in the book, I never thought about those things. You know, I was just thinking about what next movie I'm going to be in. And then I started thinking about all these things from childhood. and it started from as young as I can remember loving sweets. And I just, the first few months were a bit rough because then it brings up all these emotions that I'd been trying to suppress. But then I learned to process the emotions in a healthier way. Not that I'm ever, I don't think I'm cured of emotional eating.

26:15I think I still will be in times of stress or difficult times or will fall back on it. but I learnt how to manage it better. What emotions do you think you were really trying to suppress or moments from your life that you just hadn't looked at, parts of you that needed that care, that were keeping you trapped in the cycle? I think there was just a lot of sadness, I think, which is why I like to make people laugh. It might be a cliche for comedians to say. um and then I guess unresolved issues like like things with my father I never confronted him or I just yeah so maybe there was some anger there was anger towards him and just sadness and then it was what was the most sad is when I lost weight in 2020 and I realized I could do it and then I was sad because I thought why didn't I do it before I did have the ability to do it and then I thought would my life have been different if I'd done it 10 years earlier.

27:23But, you know, everybody's journey is their journey and maybe I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready to release that stuff. Yeah, it's big. I think it's so big getting to that point where you feel ready to dive into the past and look through everything forensically. It's really, really hard work and it's really draining and I think it's so fascinating to hear you talk about it because people want to go, how did you lose weight? and it's like a quick fix and what trick did you use? Did you do cardio for like 60 minutes or 80 minutes? It's not about that. It's not about that and your reasons became almost unrelated to your physical body.

27:59This was emotional stuff you needed to look at and I think you've got to be so ready to do that and it can take people years and years and years but you realise it's not about, oh, I'm not disciplined enough to heal myself from this disordered eating. It's I've got to take a look in that pile of stuff over there which I don't want to look at and it is not easy. Yeah, and if you're an emotional eater like I was, it's just, yeah, the trick to it is not a magic pill. It's not some diet. It's not I'll eat this amount of protein, I'll drink this amount of water. It's literally to deal with the emotional reasons of why you're doing that.

28:37And as I process the emotions, it's almost just like the weight came off. And yes, I was eating healthy and exercising during that whole year. But it was the emotional side. And it's weird. I don't know, just coming from a background where I never wanted to talk about emotions or personal, private stuff. And then look at me now. I'm like the total opposite. But I think that's healthy and that's progress. It is. And I think we're about the same age. And I think our generation, we weren't brought up to go, let's all sit and chat about our feelings. It was just like crack on with it. Yeah. It was like, oh, you've got an issue.

29:17Don't ever talk about it or shut up. Yeah, get on with it. Yeah, like that's why I never realised I was allergic to dogs until later because no one ever thought to test her for something. Well, your mum is literally every second of the day at a dog show. Yeah. Oh, yeah, pretty much. That's her favourite thing to do. Still doing it now. Yeah, she was just judging in China and then I think she's coming to Europe like next week. So I grew up in a dog showing family, which means we just went to dog shows every single weekend. And you're like coughing and sneezing and they're like, she's all right.

29:49Yeah, just be like, she'll be fine. She'll be all right, which is a very Australian way. They didn't really diagnose things back then. No, I don't think we didn't. Yeah, did anyone have a food allergy when you were young? No, God no. You ate all the weight, all the nuts, everything. It's all quite new.

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32:09Let's talk a bit about childhood because that's where I feel like I learned a hell of a lot about you. Not only that you were a shy child and you felt unbelievably unpopular at times, but also, and we'll definitely get to that because I'm just totally obsessed with how you turned all of that around. But before that, you've alluded to this already, that your dynamic with your dad was less than easy and you had an awareness, it seems quite early on, that he had anger issues, erratic behaviour. How do you think that's impacted you? You know, these things are long lasting. We can all see how, whether how we were parented or the situations that happened in childhood, impact us now.

32:48How do you think that's impacted you as an adult? Yeah, so, you know, I was just born extremely introverted and then growing up with a father, his father was murdered when he was 18. So I think he felt like he was a smart man who had had the world going for him. And then his father gets murdered at 18. So right as he's doing like his final exams, his life then kind of gets screwed up, I guess you would say. And he had a lot of emotional issues because of that. And even though at the time I thought it was very normal, but he would, little things could just like make him snap and he would always snap it'll only be at home you know you never see him do it publicly like we're out of the dog shows or something he'd never snap in front of other people it was more just his family and it'd be at home and something and he'd go all red in the face and kind of shake and then often he'd whack us uh which again I thought was quite normal now you know being a mother I could could never imagine hitting my child in that way um but But at the time I grew up just thinking I have to be a good girl.

33:58I can't do anything wrong. It made me feel scared and probably try to be even more invisible than what I already was. So it was just, yeah, but then it was just how I grew up. I don't, it's weird. I don't think I had a bad childhood in any way. That was just my father and his issues, which I think at times in his life he did try to help himself, which is why I found those cassette tapes. But I don't think he ever cracked it. He didn't have the skills to try to help himself. I mean, I won't talk about the cassettes in a minute, but it was a real privilege to see this letter that you had written to your dad in the book, where this was after he died.

34:48and, you know, obviously it's an incredibly healthy thing to do to write down what you're feeling and write to people that aren't here any longer. What did hit you when he died? What regrets did you have or feelings were coming up at that time? So, yeah, when my dad just suddenly died and then I got a call saying he's dead and I just instantly got on a plane and flew to Australia. And I guess I've always, without even knowing that it was kind of therapeutic to write all I could think of when I arrived in Sydney and, you know, his funeral was coming up, that I would just write him this letter. And then bizarrely, I took photos of it.

35:28I don't know why, because I knew I was going to put the letter in his body, you know, in the casket, and I put it inside his jacket. But I just, I guess because it was such an emotional week that I wanted to remember what I had written to him. So I took photos of it. And then, and then so that's why I could put it in the book I guess I mean that that was actually a healthy way to deal with it because if obviously if I had known he was going to pass away I would have done things differently and probably the saddest part in the book is the last time I ever saw my father in Los Angeles and I knew he wanted to come back and see where I was living with Matt Lucas, who he loved.

36:10He loved British comedy. And, and yet I take him to a comedy show and then I basically give him like a half-hearted hug and walk in the other direction. And I was just like, and then I almost turned back. I just something in me, like I almost turned back and said, oh, come on. Okay. Then come. But our relationship had been so estranged ever since my mum kicked him, finally kicked him out of the house when I was about 16. It was just really baby steps in rebuilding our relationship. And, um, yeah, but you just, life is so short and you never know. And then I always thought, well, he was the adult in the situation.

36:49So the owner should have been on him to, to reconnect. And, uh, you know, we were trying in our own ways, in our own capacities to rebuild that father daughter relationship. And it was just so, so sad even And now when I think about it, like I get a bit emotional because like, yeah, obviously if I'd known he was going to pass away, I would have acted differently. But you just never know. And then it's too late. And the one benefit of that is that it made our family start talking more about emotions. Really? Start, yeah, start telling each other that we love each other. Pretty much every phone call now ends that way.

37:29And that's the blessing that came out of it. Yeah, I mean, that sort of grief is complicated. It's not straight up, I'm really sad and devastated and my body hurts grief. It's complicated because things were less than perfect and you've got to kind of make peace if you can with it. It's tricky. Yeah, but writing it out can be one of the best things you can do. And then when I did that emotional work during my year of health, again, I learned this thing called purge emotional writing where, and I think there's various forms of it, and you write out your emotions and it's like getting it out of you.

38:06And that's one of the healthiest things you can do. Yeah. So for people that are on the cliffhanger of the cassettes, we've got to talk about these cassettes. Oh, yeah, okay. So the cassettes. This was a game changer. So this is, first of all, this is you being shy and feeling unpopular. And then you stumble across these cassettes. Your dad, there's this sort of early self-help, essentially. Basically had no friends and was painfully shy, like seriously bordering on some kind of social disorder. Shy. But again, never diagnosed because nobody cared. Yeah. And then so I find this cassette, this gym bag in the back of my dad's car.

38:42And I open it, but it's not gym clothes. It's like all these cassette tapes, like heaps of them. And I get it and I'm like, what the hell is this? And then I don't even say anything. I just take them up to my bedroom and start listening to one. And the first one was called How to Win Friends and Influence People. And I thought, well, I definitely want friends because I was the girl who was just eating her lunch in the library by herself. Because what was worse than like being a loser was being that one loser that everybody knew and that bullied. so I was kind of trying to be like the invisible loser.

39:15I had no friends but I just wasn't going to be on anybody's radar so I'd hide away in the library. And then, yeah, I read the article saying that at 15 that will be your personality for life basically. Whatever your personality is at 15 is a real indicator to how your life is going to be. And I thought, do we think that's true by the way? I don't know but it was just in some journal. I'm still 15-year-old Fern. I want to literally vomit. I mean, what were you like at 15? Oh, cocky and loud and very enthusiastic. Well, you weren't not cocky. Well, no, maybe not cocky. I was very enthusiastic at the time and excitable.

39:53And I still do have a lot of that, but I hope not to the degree that I had back then. Please. So you listen to these tapes and this is like an epiphany moment. Yeah, so I was like incredibly unpopular and also had no real ability because I was so shy to express myself to anyone, which meant it was so hard to make friends because in order to do that you have to kind of express yourself and I knew I wanted to change that about myself and then I found things on these tapes like these tips for example one is like to speak to five new people every day so I'm like right okay that's my mission I've got to get one two three four five okay I'm on the bus now I have a chat with this girl and be like hi um where are you going to school uh you know and just like I have these random little chats to people but then what I noticed is that maybe these other teenagers are feeling just as lonely just as isolated as me and then me coming up to them was it could have been the highlight of their day because they also were feeling lonely and unpopular not cool or whatever and then I just slowly did things I mean and not just that like I mean a great way I think to make friends and build connections is like being part of a team so you know sports and you know your school's doing a musical or a play and being part of it in some kind of capacity or and I forced myself to do public speaking and debating and like uh like just these these things which horrified me but then I knew if I'm going to change I do have to force myself but you became like the most popular girl it took about a year yeah that's a quick turnaround but I her lunch in the library every day to literally being the most popular.

41:41And by the time my 16th birthday, my sweet 16th came around, that was like the legendary party that everyone talked about. The busloads of gate crashes came like 30 minutes before the party had even started. It was just one of those wild teenage parties. And then I went, oh, maybe I've become too popular. Maybe popularity is shit because it comes with all these other dramas and the police were called three times and there were all these shenanigans that went on at my wild sweet 16th. It's interesting how reading the book you can almost see how those feelings kind of came back when you landed in L.A.

42:19for the first time, don't know anyone, no friends, and all of a sudden you're sort of the unpopular Hollywood kid until, again, you turn things around so spectacularly and there you are at the Oscars with Brad Pitt going, I'm popular in Hollywood, this is ace. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's just like there's several points where I had to reset. Like one was after high school I went to Africa by myself on this youth exchange program and I went and then again that shy, you know, the shy girl comes back and I don't have anything familiar or anyone around me and moving to America at 29 turning 30, here I come with one suitcase and just a dream and I come to Hollywood not knowing anyone and I think in that first year I didn't really have any friends except for the guy that became my manager I'd go occasionally to the movie cinemas with but it wasn't like I was partying or living it up in any way like it like it really wasn't and it just I don't know sometimes in some phases of my life it just was hard um and I'd have to you know just trying to remember what was on those cassette tapes oh yeah trying to talk to people they've stood the test of time Yeah, or things.

43:33They need to be made into your next book, just the cassettes. Everyone needs to read that. Yeah, I mean, there's great books out there. No, but these cassettes, this is like legendary stuff. Yeah, I know. It's amazing. And I just, they came into my life, if any teens listening who are just, some of them are in darkest times when I was like 13 and just felt so isolated and your body was changing and you just felt like what the hell is going on? How am I going to cope with life? And it was just they came at the right time. That talking to five new people every day is so brilliant, especially in this day and age where if you get on a bus, everyone's on a fucking phone.

44:16Everyone's looking at a screen. And it's like, no, we actually need to be making eye contact and talking to the person that's making your coffee or if you're in the library and you're getting a book, like talk to the person that you're interacting with. It's so key. Like those tiny moments are key. And some of the most amazing things on being on this tour for the book is when I've had interactions with people and like a young girl come up and say, oh, I've just, I'm 15. I've just been diagnosed with PCOS just like you. And we'd have a little chat about it. Or a girl comes up at the theater at Interval and says, I'm queer.

44:50And I just, you know, wanted to say thank you for being a positive role model. and then we'd have a little chat about and a connection and it's just so important. Yeah, those little moments are so key. So let's jump to this very strange integration into LA, into Hollywood. I don't think there is a normal integration into Hollywood. I think they're all pretty unique and bizarre. Yeah, and I don't know how somebody – I mean, I was lucky. I was probably the most famous young female in comedy in Australia. So I came and had the one suitcase, a quarter of which was filled with chocolate, Australian chocolate that I brought over.

45:24Priorities. Because I was like, yeah, that's essential for me to make it in Hollywood. And then I come over and on my second day I had one meeting. So I sold everything I ever owned because I had one meeting in Hollywood with the big agency to represent me, Goodwill and Morris Endeavor, and I was like, okay, yeah, great, I'll sell everything and I'll come over and I'll see, you know, I'll give it a year hopefully. I'd probably had enough money to last a year. But I didn't even truly have representation. I had the meeting. So I go to the meeting and they look me and they're like, yeah, well, we don't really have anybody like you.

46:03So, yeah, sure. They literally had not seen somebody who was plus size Australian who also wrote and produced. They just hadn't seen somebody with my combination of skills. And luckily that day they thought, oh, I'm of interest. Let's go for it. So, yeah, so then I had agents, like I had Hollywood agents, which I was like, cool. But that's like step one, isn't it? Because this was then a slog. And actually how many of us were introduced to you was in Bridesmaids, which was your 30th audition just before your 30th birthday. Yeah, but I was so lucky that I started just pretty much auditioning instantly.

46:44And a lot of actors, I mean, it takes years. The one agent that signed me also had Rob Pattinson And he had done Harry Potter But it took him like years to then get Twilight Yeah And you know, and he's gorgeous And then you're just like But for me it was real quick It was something like two months I'd booked my first job But I had quite a few rejections Because there was like 30 auditions leading up to Bridesmaids And there was one movie with Matt Damon That I thought, oh, I'm going to get And they gave it to Scarlett Johansson And I was like, oh. And then there was one TV pilot I remember testing against my now friend Anna Camp who's in Pitch Perfect.

47:23I was like, oh, but she's amazing. Like she's an amazing actress. It's so weird you get to sit next to your competition in like a waiting room. Yeah, bizarre. And then you go in one by one knowing that if I got that job that day, I would have been making US$30 ,000 a week on a sitcom, which to me was hugely life-changing. And then they make you sign the contract before you go in because in case they like you, then you're done. You're signed up for seven years of your life. You are owned. Yeah. But then the one I was meant to get was the one that was it. It was Bridesmaids. Thank God you've written it.

47:59I know. It's one of my favourite scenes in the film, are you and Matt together. Just genius. And I just love him. He's like an older brother to me. He's gorgeous. He's the most kindest, sweetest guy. And I was probably the most junior person on the Bridesmaids set, but they made me feel so welcome. And because I was just added in, I just, you know, could improvise. And I don't know how I came up with some of those things. But we shot, just shot all day for a week. And I remember I had my tattoo that they had a fake tattoo on my back. And I had to wrap myself in cling wrap every night because they didn't want to reapply the tattoo each day.

48:37So I had to basically not shower for a whole week, which made me even more feral for the character. but it's so funny how the universe it just works out like was I gutted when I missed out on like the Matt Damon role and the sitcom role yeah but then Bridesmaids was the one it was and you got to trust the universe yeah and then I just had to wait a whole year until Bridesmaids came out for people to actually see see my work in it and thank god like it was a smash hit and then I thought okay maybe I can stay in Hollywood even though my initial goal was just to get in one Hollywood film.

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50:47Then I kind of liked it and was like, oh. And then booking six movies off the back of Bridesmaids, one of which was Pitch Perfect, which was just a gift. It was incredible. So I just, yeah, and so by that point I'm like, okay, I think I'm staying in America. I don't have to go back to Australia and be a lawyer. There you go. Goodbye, Law. It's so good to hear that there are so many good eggs that you've worked with and you list quite a few in the book. Obviously, the whole Bridesmaids cast and Pitch Perfect, you just seem to create these beautiful bonds and they're great friends. I mean, the Pitch Perfect girls because we worked together for so long.

51:22It's a sisterhood. Yeah, yeah. It's just we're so different. Like, we're very different girls. But, you know, we're all like we just we know how to come together and be a team. It's so beautiful. Obviously, you talk about the worst professional moment of your life, too. And it's been a very noisy part of you talking about this book, whether you like it or not, because everyone's picking up on this Sacha Baron Cohen story. Yeah, which is only kind of in one chapter of a 33 chapter book. But I can understand why when you say something against somebody who's high profile that the press picks up on it.

51:57But I guess also there's this feeling that there should be, I don't know, a level of retribution for people that aren't behaving particularly well and have got away with it. And it certainly seems like for you telling that story, that's given you an element of peace, perhaps. You know, obviously the story is patchy because there are legalities around what you can and can't say. But perhaps you being able to actually say this is what really happened has been healing for you in some way. Yeah, I guess, you know, in my memoir, obviously I'm entitled to write about like my worst professional experience because I feel like people reading the book would want to hear about that as well as some of the best ones which are in there.

52:36And I did it, one, because you want people who are going through the same thing and who maybe have been like me where you feel a bit ashamed about you didn't take yourself out of the situation or why didn't you say more back at the time? and I did say and I did complain immediately after. And so in a way it's to try to help other people who may be going through something similar or feel the same shame that what I did. And then also in a way writing it is just the last bit of releasing it because it did happen 10 years ago. It is something I'm over now and I say in the book like I'm not about cancelling anybody.

53:18I'm just about telling my truth because this is my memoir and this is my time to tell it. What you seem to have felt is that at the time you wish maybe that you had said something more vehement or as you say taking yourself out, extract yourself from the situation but there's a real moment of pride when you go up against a big media company who were trying to slander your name and say things about you and drag people from your past to write stories about you that were deeply concerning for you and extremely stressful. And that was a point where you thought, no, I'm going to bloody well stand up for myself and do something about this.

53:54Yeah, well, in Australia, we have what's called a tall poppy syndrome, which is a cultural thing. The Brits kind of have it as well. Basically where the press goes after high-profile people in their country. So in Australia, the tall poppy means like all the poppies growing in a field, one dares to grow taller. or to be bigger than the others. And then, therefore, they had deserved to get cut down. And basically it stems from, I think, back in the day, obviously we had Indigenous Australians who were there since the birth of time, but when Australia was colonised, there were only really two classes of people, the convicts and the guards above them, and all the convicts below, which there were many more of, hated the people above.

54:40So that's culturally where it comes from. So if you're a celebrity, if you're wealthy or whatever, they tend to hate you. And it's particularly vicious towards women. It seems very gender. Yeah, I think that's the industry that we're working in here. Yeah, I know. And so it got to a point I had a very successful movie, Pitch Perfect 2, which is the highest grossing musical comedy of all time. And then they just released these bullshit stories. And I, being a lawyer, you know, being legally trained, obviously like my book gets legally vetted before it's published. And I was just like, you know what, these tabloids, yeah, I'm not going to take that.

55:22Because I know what it's actually like to be punched in the face when you're not looking. Because that actually happened to me in a fighting tournament in South Africa, which is in the book. Whole other story. Yeah, whole other story. And this was like metaphorically being punched in the face when you're not looking like what we call in Australia a coward's punch, when someone just tries to knock you out from outside your peripheral vision. And that's what it was. And that company was found guilty of malicious defamation, which is like the worst type of defamation because they knew it was wrong and they shouldn't have done it.

55:55And they did it anyway. But it doesn't stop a billion dollar media corporation from trying to discredit you. And I had to go to court and prove my whole life story, which I did. And that's why, hence, I'm very well versed in defamation. And in my book, don't want anybody with money and power to then go and sue me or the book publishers. So I'm very well versed in the area from going through a high profile defamation case. But still extremely stressful. And I wonder how, I mean, this is not obviously the first or the last time you're going to have to deal with people giving you shit because that's the industry that you're working in and the one that I'm working in.

56:36I mean, there'll be someone saying they don't like my cardigan. Yeah. There's always someone saying something and you have to get a thick skin. I don't naturally have one. I don't necessarily, I don't really want one because I feel like. But that's what makes you, you're so empathetic and, you know, and being a great interviewer. But then it makes you think I want to quit every day because you think I can't handle it. Like what has given you any level of resilience to go, God, that was so stressful and I'm really hurt by that, but I'm still going to carry on doing what I'm doing. Yeah, so like I'm highly sensitive.

57:03It's like in the first paragraph of the book, I'm so sensitive that I can't wear heavy sunglasses because they hurt my nose, the bridge of my nose. So I'm just like I'm so sensitive and when you, you know, this person comes out and denies something that happened, like it hurts you. like and it's it doesn't feel great um and then even just being in the public eye somebody say a comment about your weight or I don't know just other negative thing all the time it happened and you do feel like oh should I like not be here anymore should I not like be in this business um but then the thing about being sensitive and empathetic like you just uh that's how come I I can channel different characters and that's what gives me my superpowers in other areas.

57:54So you kind of got to take the good and the bad of being sensitive. I find the only thing that really helps is at the end of the day, I get into that bathtub and it's almost like all the energies that have somehow stuck onto me, whether I've read something on social media or somebody's yelled out something in the street or something. if things like that have happened in my day and I get in the bathtub and it's almost like I always put some kind of salts um yeah like epsom salts or you know nice smelling things in the bath and I just let it wash off me um and then I try to before going to sleep say and even sometimes out loud I'll say you know some a couple things I'm grateful for even if I had like the worst day and be grateful for things and then that kind of helps.

58:44But I don't think, I don't know, I've not worked out a strategy to completely avoid it. No, I don't know if there is one. Unless you're like thick-skinned and prepared to just, you know, go head on with these things. I have one friend who just never cared what other people thought. I was like, how does she do that? I'm very envious of that. I'm not that person. No. Look, it's been just as beautiful as I'd imagined talking to you today and I loved reading your book. Never before have I thought about Elizabeth I's Hyman, so that's a new thing for me. Good callback. I can't get it out of my head, quite frankly.

59:19But it's just been brilliant getting to spend some time with you this week and I wish you all the success with all your other beautiful projects. Thank you, Fern. And I hope somebody's out there working on their health, going for a walk, listening to this podcast. And to you, I just say, good on you. You can change your life for the better. And thank you, Fern, for having me. and for doing our show together at the London Palladium. That was so great because I just think you're the best and this podcast is the best and you're spreading happiness and you do it with your festival and with this podcast and it's just really, really awesome.

59:53And to me personally, it's meant a lot. Like I love your chat. Even just your recent one with Dawn French. Oh, dear. I love his legend and you just have the great, great chats with people. Oh, thanks, mate. And you might not know like but how many people and I was one of those people that really benefited during the pandemic, especially by hearing all your chats. So thank you. Honestly, that is like I could have a little cry. Thank you so much, Rebel. Really appreciate it. No worries. God, I love that. Do you know what me and Rebel said at the end as we were turning the mics off? We could have just chatted for about another four or five hours easily.

1:00:30We're going to have to do a part two at some point because I still had like a whole page of notes and questions that I wanted to put to Rebel, but that just shows how brilliant she is at telling her story, how articulate she is, and also how giving she is. She was so honest about some really tricky stuff there, and I massively appreciate that. Rebel's brilliant book, Rebel Rising, is out right now. Please go get it. And actually, there's a lot in there about remembering the value of laughing, and we dedicated a whole Happy Place episode to just the idea of that a couple of weeks ago. So do have a tiny scroll back in your feed to listen to it if you can.

1:01:08We're going to be back here next week with a huge musician who is notoriously private. Oh, I'm excited. But in the meantime, get yourself over to at happyplaceofficial on Instagram. That's where we carry on all of these conversations, share stories and just have a bit of a laugh, really. Massive thanks again to Rebel. Oh, I love you. To the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios. Love you too. And to you lot. I really love you too.

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1:02:44Saints and sinners. Unexpected laughs and unspoken truths. Good times. Hard times. And, of course, family. Always family. So pull up a chair and join us at Fremont Avenue. A world premiere play only at Arena Stage. Performances start October 8th. Tickets at arenastage.org. Hey, I'm Dr. Z and I'm a neurosurgeon. So that means long hours, early rounds, late nights, and everything in between. And through it all, I wear figs. They're comfortable when it counts and functional when I need them the most. So where do you wear your figs? On shift, on call, on the couch in the break room listening to this podcast?

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