Release yourself from the male gaze: How to have more orgasms!

0:01Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. July the 31st, did you know, is National Orgasm Day. So today we're going to listen back to some of the conversations we've had on the show about female sexuality, fantasy and obviously orgasms. What's really cool about our clitoris is that we have 10 ,000 nerve endings. I think that women talking to each other about sex is the only way that we can protect ourselves and also have better sex. So you're like, okay, they all have implants and they're all, you have sex appeal and they're dressing sexy. You're like, okay, that's what you got to do to be powerful.

0:42What makes one person feel empowered may make another person feel degraded. And I think the ultimate feminism is respecting each other's choices, even if it's not for you. If you actually take a moment and really do some deep breathing during masturbation, you'll be so surprised at the change in the pleasure capacity. To know two people have been that intimate and maybe I never will. There's a lot of women who talk about wanting their partner to see them for exactly who they are for the body that they have. Like here we are on earth, it seems worthwhile to be so vulnerable. Right, so we're going to unapologetically look at female sexuality today and try to get stuck into some of the conversations around why we might have such a complicated relationship with our own desires and bodies when really we all deserve the space to express ourselves and feel pleasure completely uninhibited.

1:41Now if like me you're in your mid-40s you more than likely grew up in a time where it's a bloody complicated time. On one hand you had sort of like pop stars who were really overly sexualized so there was a lot of imagery of young people wearing very little writhing around. There was a lot of lads mags with women with their tits out. But equally, we were sort of shamed at the same time for whether it was just our bodies being a body and having a body that looked a certain way, or whether it was expressing ourselves sexually. I think the sort of feminist chat came into this as well, that it was seen anti-feminist to be overtly sexy and sexual.

2:21And I think, thank God, times have changed massively from maybe 10, 20 years ago. And now I think we're really embracing that feminism means so much more and that we should be able to enjoy our sexuality, express ourselves and dress ourselves however we deem fitting our bodies. I mean, there's maybe slightly more acceptance in different body shapes, thank goodness. And we're hopefully feeling less shame or less insecurity when it comes to our female bodies but I think we've obviously still got a long way to go. I think luckily with aging a lot of that stuff seems to fall by the wayside. I certainly in my mid-40s feel so much better in my own skin, so much more comfort and I'm so much more knowing about what gets me going, what makes me feel good and that's why I think all of these chats are incredibly important.

3:17We need to get rid of shame. We've got no space for shame at all at Happy Place. We want it gone. I went through huge periods of feeling such shame about certain things in my life and it is an emotion that you drown in. It is a joy sapper. We want shame gone, especially from this conversation when it comes to sex, bodies, expressing yourself and orgasms. And we also know there's still a huge gender orgasm gap that we need addressing as well. So that will happen within this little podcast montage. Let's talk about who we're going to hear from. We're going to be hearing from Crystal Hefner, first of all.

3:55She was Hugh Hefner's third wife. To get a sense of the type of female sexuality so many of us were sold growing up, Emily Ratajkowski begins to unpack how we can remove our sexuality from the male gaze. And Dita Von Tees picks up on that thought with her take on building confidence in your own body. Absolute legend Gillian Anderson chats about what she learned from collecting essays on women's fantasies and Miranda July explains why she included a particularly taboo fantasy in her novel All Fours which was a bit of the book that I still talk about now. And then we'll wrap up all of these thoughts with some practical advice from sex educator Florence Bark on how to get to know your own anatomy better so you can properly lean in to all that pleasure your body is capable of.

4:51Hi, this is Knox from the podcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the podcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either three or six milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine.

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6:58right let's do it here's the show

7:21you say in the book that growing up you learned maybe from various sources that to survive you You needed to be appealing to men. Where was that messaging coming from? Well, when I was growing up, the celebrities at the time were Pam Anderson, Jenny McCarthy, Carmen Electra. So you're like, okay, they all have implants and they're all have sex appeal and they're dressing sexy. Like, okay, that's what you got to do to be powerful. That's what I assume is be appealing to the opposite sex. So, yeah, I started on that journey. I thought that's what would make me happy or powerful. And how do you feel about that today?

8:03Obviously, you're very beautiful and you like to have your hair a certain way and makeup. I'm the same. I love getting dressed up. I love wearing certain clothes and experimenting with different styles. There's still this murky debate where women can only be one thing. So you can't appear to be sexy and have a brain. You can't appear to be sexy and have an opinion about something. I think that still really stands. And there's many people that totally would disregard everything I've just said. I'm one of them. But I think that there is still this general consensus that how can a sexy woman have an opinion?

8:39Or how can a beautiful woman who wants to show off her body or dress in a certain way have an opinion on anything? How do you navigate that today? I think it's hard. And you're right. Like, it could be both. You know, I was coming to the UK and I called Benny. I'm like, Benny, I need hair and makeup. and for yes I'm going to be on camera and but as soon as I leave I'm going to get home and probably not wear makeup for two months you know so it's you can be both and I do think more people are realizing that that you can be both you can be blonde and intelligent how did the experience of living in the mansion of having a relationship where there were huge conditions involved well rules let's be blunt about it around everything to do with how you operated where you were how much of your attention went on to your partner slash husband sex all of it was conditional how has that affected how you think about relationships now and intimacy I think that I don't know now I have to just feel very safe with somebody and I was in a few relationships that were not very good and now I'm in a relationship that's very happy and healthy and you know I know that this person respects me and respects women so I think that's very very important.

10:09Yeah safety seemed to come into it a lot you know you say even when you entered the mansion realizing that you were a permanent resident at the mansion when that moment happened that you felt safe for the first time in ages so I'm imagining that's something that you still seek but in just very different ways yeah yeah now now I actually feel safe there it was was an illusion just you know just like the mansion itself yeah so strange how was it reflecting on everything in the book I mean you go into great detail in all areas was it liberating was it a painful experience to go about there I think it was liberating it was hard to talk about sex and death but I think it had to be in there because it's a big part of the story and yeah it's liberating and I'm I'm very happy and you know I was quiet for so long and so I appreciate getting the story out there yeah do you feel any guilt around speaking the truth now no I do see old photos of Hef and I and I think oh that was when I didn't know any better but I don't I don't have guilt anymore none it's gone no no it's a good thing it's freeing yeah you don't want to lug that around yeah and it's nice to to talk about it and be able to be honest finally yeah i mean i get i guess times have changed so hugely in terms of even 10 years ago but certainly looking back 20 years ago how playboy had a place in culture such a prominent place in culture and how women were seen has changed so hugely it does feel like what you've documented is that shift you lived through that entire shift of the demise of it and it you know I mean it still exists but you've explicitly said it's not what we think it is yeah it's definitely not it was that it was Hugh Hefner's Playboy and beauty is subjective and he would only put in certain people in the magazine and it was Hef's world.

12:20And I do think and still wonder, like, did he hurt things by creating that magazine or did he help? He supposedly thought he helped with freedom and expression, but maybe he hurt the world a little bit too. I think that women talking to each other about sex is the only way that we can protect ourselves and also have better sex and just change a lot of the the you know things that happen with women around sex like just just make it more enjoyable for women so I do think you know there is a taboo but I think it's super important that we we change that yeah I mean I was listening to the stats that you were discussing around women having orgasms and it being very very low oh my god seven i brought this damn statistic up so many times yeah and what's funny is um i had a dinner with uh like five of my girlfriends and they were like oh my god only seven percent of the time that a woman first time she hooks up with a guy has an orgasm only seven percent of the time and one of my friends was like those women are lying yeah it's literally a no percent job he was like no it's it's lower than seven percent and i was like oh my god wow so It was just so bleak.

13:33It's so bleak. It's so bleak, but you're right. You know, we need to talk about it and have a really healthy conversation about it. And I was so, so excited to talk to you today for many reasons. But your book, My Body, which I have right here. Oh, nice. You've got the paperback too. Great. Oh, I loved reading this book. And it, oh my God. I mean, it made me sit and think about so many things that have happened in my own life. And it made me really consider, I guess, my own body, but also all of the misinformed assumptions I've made about the female body and the judgment that I still have. I want all of it to just rise to the surface.

14:16And your book was certainly a catalyst for a lot of that. Oh, that makes me so happy. Yeah, I mean, I had certainly one personal conclusion, which was that I'm obsessed with the female body, but equally as sort of terrified of it at the same time. And that's, that's something I've been mulling over a lot. And I think it's informed a lot of how I've acted over the years and how I've expressed myself. So say in my 20s, I did what's called over here a lad's mag. So it's basically like you do a sexy shoe, you're wearing like a PVC outfit and then, you know, men read the magazine. And I've now in my 40s looked back and I've sort of spoken openly and said, oh, yeah, I've got, you know, regret about that or I felt shame.

15:04And then after reading your book, I thought, but do I or do I just think that I should say that? You know, do I actually feel that bothered about having done that? And I don't I don't think I do. Huh, that's so interesting. I'm definitely obsessed with this kind of idea of being, you know, you both obviously feel the pressure to, you know, or this is the world we live in where you are objectified, you, you know, do your sexualized at maybe very young, even if you're a woman who's, you know, done a bunch of amazing journalistic work, like there is kind of this push to be also hot and celebrated in that way.

15:41And then on the other side of it, there's this sort of shaming that comes with it of like, well, now nobody's going to take you seriously because, you know, you're a slut, quote unquote. Or even from feminists, I think that there's this feeling of like, well, now you've played into the male gaze. So therefore, you're not progressive. You're not helping women. And, you know, that's really what the book is kind of dealing with, because that's been my experience even before I was a model or in the public spotlight, just, you know, as a 13 year old getting dressed and kind of like having a new body and having a woman's body for the first time and feeling the attention from men when I dressed a certain way.

16:16also like feeling afraid because of the attention, also feeling validated because of the attention. Then, you know, having teachers snap my bra strap and feeling like I was typecast in a certain way because of, you know, the way I was presenting myself. So it's complicated. And I think it's something we just get it from all sides, really. Yeah. And, you know, is there a conclusion? Because I think that's the question that I kept asking myself when I was reading your book is, But wait, can a woman and I want the answer to be yes as a feminist, but can can a woman show her sexiness? Can she express her sexual desires, dress in an overtly sexy way and be listened to and be taken seriously and be respected?

17:02I don't know if that is true in the day and age that we're in today. I think surely as feminists, which I'm sure most women would align with the ethos of being a feminist, it's all about doing what makes you feel good. And of course, if you're, you know, looking into these subject matters and we can all predict that somebody might say, you know, you're not being progressive by showing your body or whatever it might be. But that depends on surely where the control lies. But also there's assumptions afoot there, because what if you're not, you know, getting your boobs out or wearing something sexy for men?

17:41What if you're doing it because it makes you feel good? It's about you. It's about you expressing your your sexuality and your desire. So I think there are just so many layers of assumption that need to be removed. it's hard because I do think sometimes the reason that those things make us feel good is because of the culture that we live in that is you know really defined by male's desires and and you know what it looks good and whatever but yeah ultimately I mean my goal for women is for them to feel unburdened and happy and free to make choices so you know when you have to kind of think about not only how you're going to be judged and perceived by men and written off and whatever else, but then also think about whether or not, you know, your personal decisions are politically progressive for women, like it's exhausting.

18:36And I do think that there's a younger generation who just isn't concerned about this, you know, like they're, they've surpassed this. And, you know, a woman can have an OnlyFans even and be a feminist. I mean, I think even if you're choosing not to be sexual or not sexualize yourself or self-objectify or I mean there's a million different ways that one could describe this sort of expression as you're still responding to what women deal with right there's this amazing Margaret Atwood quote that I'm going to butcher right now where she says like everything everything we do is a response to sort of like the patriarchy essentially so even deciding to cover your body and to present yourself a certain way is still responding to men yes so like when are we going to be free I know well I was blind and I was blinded to that I had I didn't realize that until I read your book and I was like oh no no I'm I'm I am still reacting to that and and often in ways that feel impossible to articulate and it's it's really disempowering feeling and my producer and I were talking about this before we logged on to speak to you today Emily because I mean I I have very small boobs I have a flat ass flat tits flat ass producer Anushka doesn't have very big boobs but we were talking about friends of ours women that we know who just happen to have boobs they just happen to have boobs they just happen to have hips they could be wearing any type of clothing but they have that sort of desirable female well, beautiful body that you would assume men would then stare at the boobs, stare at the bum, make a comment, whistle.

20:20And it's like that's just their body. They just any clothes are going to accentuate if you've got big boobs and you've got hips and that sort of classic silhouette that we're so bombarded with. And you're so disempowered in that moment, you're completely out of control. And then I think that's where people then start to hook into shame, self-loathing, wanting to cover up, hide their body, because it seems to all boil down to control. I mean, I think whether or not you have a body like that, I mean, my friends, first of all, nobody feels like they have the ideal body. I mean, that's just that's the truth.

20:56You as a woman, you're critical of yourself. but I mean so you both I think women in general no matter what you look like you feel like okay here are these things that I know can be sexualized about me like this element that element whatever and then on the other side you know like I hate all these things about myself and I don't know I just yes of course those women in that particular but I feel like all of my friends no matter their size or shape experience this in some ways. Stripping is such an interesting topic because everybody is quite a punchy subject to talk about and some people see it as empowering you know artistic beautiful others will see it as degrading sleazy whatever you know obviously your take on it is going to be positive because you've dedicated a part of your life to it and it's evolved into something very beautiful but how do you feel about the whole topic?

21:51I mean you know having like started it in a certain era and it being one thing like when I first started for sure like I was a playboy model I was like a fetish queen and like I had a lot of male followers you know and then when I wrote my first book it really shifted because I wrote a lot about why I love glamour and what it makes me feel for my confidence and you know so my first book really like flicked the switch on women following me and certainly I think I think I mean I think about striptease you know I I know that you know my understanding of striptease and its history especially in America the burlesque show the which was like American burlesque like that idea of deliberately stripping to music with a band or you know it on a big stage is like soup it's an American thing.

22:44And I, you know, like I think about Gypsy Rose Lee and Lily St. Cyr and Sally Rand and all these like ladies. And so I have a different connotation for it or different context and knowing the history, but I can understand if somebody doesn't really know that there's a history behind it. But I do think it's like, it's like art, you know, like you can look at a painting on the wall and be like, it's ugly, it's beautiful. And everyone's going to have a different way of looking at so what makes one person feel empowered may make another person feel degraded and i think the ultimate feminism is respecting each other's choices even if it's not for you and also like i've watched like i've listened to people talk about what i do and it's like if you haven't been to the show sit down and shut up because like it's 85 female in the audience and the dudes that are in the audience they're either gay yeah or they're like what am i at they're the with their wife was like, she wanted tickets.

23:40You know, I don't understand why she wants to, you know, why does she want to come to a show like this? And then I have a stack of letters from men who are like, listen, I didn't know what this was. And we got there and the curtains opened. And for some reason, my girlfriend is just like tearing up about like this space you've created. And I think, you know, that's exactly what you've done. You have created this space in this world where women want a bit of that. I think most women and certainly women, you know, sort of our age want to feel good in their skin, confident. They want to feel sexy as well.

24:12And I think that's a really interesting one is sexiness because I guess like the drudgery of the mundanity of everyday life that we can all slip into of, you know, going to work or whatever, going to the supermarket, you don't necessarily feel that sexy. I mean, I'm generalizing, but I think many women just feel like that maybe slightly wanes as you get older. you might not feel as sexy as you did in your 20s or whatever it's it's where you feel more sexy but now you don't now you know how to handle your sexuality when you're young I mean it's important for me like I see role models of like beauty and sensuality of women that are older than me and it means something to me so it was like a point where I was kind of like I gotta walk the walk like if I'm going to say if I'm going to believe that we should all be if I want to see other women be sexy and embrace their sensuality so they can inspire me I have to do the same I have to be willing to do the same thing and it's not always like that easy you know um but you know I think that it's important it's important for me and I think you know it's one of the reasons people keep coming to the show yeah completely I mean what do you do if you're not feeling sexy what makes you feel confident what makes you feel good what gets you on that stage well a lot of it is like controlling the circumstances, right?

25:28Like, you know, I am creating a show where it's like, I'm wearing what I feel good in. I'm wearing the makeup that I like. I've got the lights are all, you know, built for glamour. And you can kind of do, you can do the same thing around your house too. The only problem is as soon as you leave, you're sort of like, oh boy, I thought I looked good. And now I'm in this lighting. But you know, I love like all these, like having all these like colorful lights that I can put dim or high or, you know, lamps everywhere, like thinking of ways to make your like space feel like sexy you know i push a button it's like oh sexy lighting oh you've got sexy lighting in the house yeah you know all those like lights you can program with colors i've got a lot of lamps but i don't have a sexy light i need to do well you have to put like these smart light bulbs in your lamp so you can be like i'm gonna put some like pink light you do lavender i'm gonna put some blue light oh i'm gonna put some red light so i have those everywhere so that i can like make it or joyful for a party yeah and it's for you it's for you to feel good about yourself i think that's also the shift isn't it is rather than going this is for the male gaze or anyone else's gaze quite frankly this is for me to feel good about myself i mean it all has to start there like it did for me it's like certainly did for me because i when i was like you know in my 20s trying to figure it out i certainly could have like pandered and i you know there there was definitely points where i was trying to you know audition for being be in playboy magazine like you you do not look like a playboy girl.

26:50And I was like, so that's why you should have me there. And it was very like, I'm just going to stick with what I am. I always thought there was a value in being a little bit different. So, yeah. And I think people, it's easy to forget that. Hi, this is Knox from the podcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the podcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction.

27:25And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tight and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert.

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28:48So where do you wear your figs? On shift, on call, on the couch in the break room listening to this podcast, wherever it is, they fit right in. And now listeners of this podcast can get 15 % off their first order. Just head to wearfigs.com and use code FIGSRX at checkout. That's wearfigs.com, code FIGSRX. right let's get immersed in some fantasies then here's Gillian Anderson Miranda July and Florence Bark there's something I think very interesting about the freedom that anonymity enabled the women to write with because they are very very honest very detailed raw sexy They're so sexy They are sad Some are sad, very moving There's a lot more tenderness than I would have expected somehow That may be just me Women wanting to be seen for who they actually are There's a lot of women who talk about wanting the person that they're having sex with, their partner to see them for exactly who they are for the body that they have and that that is what they want, that that's what's being desired.

30:05There's a lot more shame than I would have expected for 2024 and to me I was surprised how challenging women still find the topic of sex, fantasy and pleasure in discussing with sexual partners. how difficult they still find it to ask for what they want in the bedroom which I have to imagine equates to asking for what one wants in life even though it's more taboo there's certain getting to a place where you feel confident to ask for your sexual needs to be met there's a real power that happens in the alchemy of that assertion and I do wonder whether if we felt freer to assert ourselves in that private, intimate way, whether it would be easier to ask for what we want and we need in our everyday lives.

31:15Pleasure is such an interesting one because I guess there's just so many different sides to that conversation. when it comes to women like some of it might be we don't believe we deserve it we haven't been told that it's even an option yeah and I think that counts for when we're talking about sex but also outside of sex we're just like we deprive ourselves constantly we don't think we're deserving or we think that it's very very far down the list of priorities and maybe also like you say all the things that you've listed whether it's porn and how that's you know through the male lens or just the lack of equality that we still see in the world in terms of power distribution and who's ruling the world that women still don't feel they can exercise their right to say I'd quite like to enjoy this please.

32:01It's very much trivialized. Pleasure is trivialized or something that is you know as much a dirty word as anything else when actually when you lean into a pleasure whether it's pleasure around sex or pleasure in other areas of our lives there's so much joy that can come from experiencing that or you know embracing it encouraging it in our lives our conversation and and everything I realized reading this there is a huge divide between fantasy and actual desire and I don't think I'd ever given that a thought before reading this book there are many circumstances and definitely with my own sexual fantasies where it's something that can really get the juices going and get you feeling great but you would never want it to happen in real life and that to me is fascinating yeah I wonder how much you believe these fantasies tell us about the individual bearing that in mind because sometimes they're so out of this world so unrelated to real life that actually do they say anything at all about who we are as people?

33:06I think that's a very good question. And I don't know the answer to that. I don't know where, for instance, the alien tentacle fantasy comes from and what that has to do with the childhood of the woman who knows. And again, I'm not a therapist, but I can't help but be curious about those things and want to ask those questions. But I think what this does, what the book does, is it starts the conversation, starts people asking themselves what it is, not only what are their fantasies. If I were to have a fantasy, what would it be? Is that something, do I actually want that to happen? Is there any element of that, that I would actually want that to happen?

33:49Is that what actually happens in my set? Oh, I've never thought about that. So my fantasy is about, you know having sex with 15 people all doing this particular thing to me that do I even have that experience of one person doing that to me well maybe I should try and find somebody who wants me that to me I don't know what it is but it's so interesting it is it says so much about I think we get you know there's a lot of I think we can find out a lot about ourselves and also potentially if you're open to having conversation with your partner a lot about your partner yeah that's that's an interesting one isn't it if that if it becomes you know something that isn't so private because i guess the tantalizing nature of sexual fantasies is that they're so secret they're so private and you've obviously submitted your own anonymous fantasy within the pages of this book did you find or do you think that the other contributors will have found that their fantasy is slightly diluted from just even putting pen to paper, fingers to laptop?

34:52Or has it still got that amazing titillating nature, even though you've written it down? That's a very good question. I have to say, from my own experience, nothing has changed since I wrote it down. I did find it hard to write down. Why? I was surprised. I assumed, because I find it so easy to talk about, I mean, not specifically my fantasy, but sex in general. And I feel like I can hear and discuss anything and not be swayed. And so, one, I put it off for a long time. And then once I started, there were certain words that I struggled to write, which was so weird to me. I was actually, like, I was shocked.

35:43I was shocked at myself. And what was the feeling, like embarrassment? man or no it wasn't it somehow somehow it felt when trying to describe things that normally is just an imagery it's actually putting a word to something and then the word equating to what are the word from that it is there than that for me to use it because that word I don't like that word that word feels it's dirty or it takes something away from there or it doesn't it's not right It almost felt like I was writing smut rather than my... One of the most interesting bits that me and many of my friends have discussed is the tampon moment.

36:31And again, it was so interesting because it broke down so many barriers that we experience when it comes to menstruating and that we've been conditioned to feel a level of shame about it, that it's all going to be extremely secretive and it's this sort of weird little dirty thing that happens once a month that we have to conceal from the outside world. And the fact that you brought that into this sort of hot and loaded moment was just astonishing. And it kind of, once again, was quite confronting for me to read because I was like, this is so sexy, but why was my initial reaction like, oh my God, what's going on?

37:13What? He's taking a tampon out? And I think when me and my friends were discussing it, it's the level of intimacy that makes it so incredible that you know the protagonist has never let anybody remove a tampon before for her. That hasn't happened. So although there wasn't any sort of like hot sex, like, you know, they're both fully clothed apart from her having her trousers down, you know, to take the tampon out. there's something so incredibly sort of sensual about it as well as it being really hot how did that idea come to you and why did that because I'm sure there were moments where you know as well as addressing menopause and perimenopause you want to look at the shame we feel around periods and menstruating and how to sort of break down those barriers yeah you know I read a okay so the book Call Me By Your Name not the movie but in the book or maybe there were two books and it was in the second one there's a scene where it's these two men in love and there's a scene where one of the men the younger guy is taking a shit and the and the other guy his lover, just puts his hand on his stomach while he's doing that and feels what's happening.

38:49And I could imagine, like, anyways, I'll just say when I read that, I felt really sad. I was like, that's it's not that I exactly want to do that it's just to know two people have been that intimate and maybe I never will like will I um will I like here we are on earth it seems like worthwhile to be so vulnerable, you know, and we have these bodies and, and to only interact in certain ways, you know, so that I've, I had lived with that for a while. And just, in fact, I talked about it with a few people, like that, that book would come up and we'd be like, oh, wait, not the movie, but in the book, there's the scene and they'd go, yeah, yeah.

39:47And it was the same like sadness you know erotic and there's yeah but but and and so I think I just not super consciously like by the time I'd um was writing my tampon scene I think I'd kind of forgotten that book I didn't um but I've since remembered like oh this is my version of that like something where they're so close in a way that you never thought and never even wanted. But now that it's happening, you can feel how alone you've been your whole life, alone with your period, alone with the sort of ugliness around what the body does or shame, you know, and to have someone just right there with you.

40:41That to me seemed like, well, if we're writing fantasy, you know, essentially, like when you're writing sex like that's I wanted to go all the way into the fantasy it's not just like he just fucks her you know it's like um to access yeah that that that longing yeah that's why I love that part one of the books so much because every sex scene that I've ever read in fiction specifically I feel like they're all getting so the same these days like the same sort of language is used like stuff that makes me feel a bit um a bit like cringy I don't know it doesn't feel sexy to me anymore because I've read all the same phrases like like he touched her sex or he pushed this into there and it's all just like oh I don't that's not really doing it for me whereas this I was just I don't know I was just sort of overwhelmingly tantalizing and amazing and it's just so clever how you've articulated it what's really cool about our clitoris is that we have 10 ,000 nerve endings in it compared to men who only have 6 ,000 So why do, because I love that fact in the book, why do so many women still have real trouble having an orgasm, probably more during sex, if we have thousands more nerve endings down there?

42:15Yeah, so the clitoris is what's under your little hood at the top. And quite often during sex, we won't incorporate that, even though that's where we feel most of our pleasure. and if you don't know about your anatomy then you're not really going to know which parts are the pleasurable parts which one has all the nerve endings the clitoris is this really cool thing and it kind of looks like a little wishbone I wish I could like show a little diagram or a picture right now or put a picture on Instagram I can tell Amelia's already googling something as we speak drawing a picture in a notepad and this is the thing that holds all this pleasure so if you then know what that is and what it looks like you can kind of navigate okay well then maybe if during sex we incorporated a sex toy like a vibrator on the clit or if you if you position maybe a pillow underneath where you're having sex then the clitoris will be tilted up in that way where your g-spot is which is a kind of like that's a weird subject in the space because some people are like the g-spot doesn't exist it's a myth and other people very much believe in it but all we really do know is that the clitoris does exist and this is where the pleasure is and because you have the parts that kind of go down around the side as well and you've got bits that are inside behind that could be the g-spot and that's the bit that you need to pleasure but it's just learning about yourself.

43:52Actually, someone came on our podcast a very long time ago and said that they had almost like a sex education session with their partner. Wow. With one of their partners. And they would sit naked together and just explore their bodies and explore like what parts felt good. And I was like, that's what we should all be doing. That's very sensible, isn't it? It's a very sensible idea. Yeah. And it's fun. And fun. Sensible and fun. That doesn't happen very often and it feels good too it's so good I always wonder with the female and male anatomy with that sort of fear of especially when you're younger inserting a tampon or anything going inside yeah because male sexual organs are all on the outside it obviously is a very different experience and I think anything in the body to me personally feels very emotional there's a real emotional attachment and an emotional it's very hard to articulate but an emotional feeling I think that a lot of the time there's fear there yeah and when we look at stress and tension physical tension when we're tense and stressed our muscles are contracted and that's something else that we don't talk about that we need to be relaxed to feel pleasure we need to physically and mentally be relaxed and that's something else that you touch on in the book is that okay we We can cover all the physical side of things.

45:18We can look at the anatomy. We can look at what does what. But actually, our minds are such an important part of this whole process, whether it's to do with sex or masturbating. Yeah. Yeah. We need to be in the right mindset for it. And there's so many things you can do for that as well. I think there's a lot about setting the mood and making sure you're actually taking a little step away from the stress in your life. Like maybe making sure you don't have like, you know, loads of tasks hanging over you just before you're like, OK, like I'm going to like slot this in to a really already busy day.

45:55Like that's not going to work. You need to like make sure that you have the time and you're not stressing about the outside world to really enjoy your inside world. And, you know, there's there's so many things that you can get involved, like, I don't know, putting some like relaxing music on or lighting your favorite candles. or maybe you're doing it in a bath because you can touch yourself in the bath I've touched myself in the bath many times and it's a great place to do it because it's a super relaxing place but yeah we get we get a lot in our heads about sex and I think male male pleasure and female pleasure is very different in that way like I think men could probably orgasm from just doing the action and women can't we need to really focus I mean I'm sure we've all had that moment during sex you're just about to orgasm and suddenly something happens and it completely distracts you and you have to start all the way from the beginning again and that's because our minds are in charge of our pleasure so in that case we need to practice I guess and I think that's what kind of my book is encouraging as well is just like just start taking some time and it's okay if it doesn't work out at the beginning yeah just take a little chill and that's why the stories the meditations are good because your mind is then focused on something and you're you're involved in the story and you're letting your mind go there rather than oh my god i need to go to the supermarket because we have no milk for tomorrow or whatever bullshit your head's you know yeah moving towards is actually making sure that you prioritise your headspace and where your head's at before you, if it's sex or masturbating, that your head is in the right space.

47:43It's so important. And another thing, which is a very well-being thing to talk about, and we've spent loads of time talking about it on this very podcast, is breathing. And I don't think I've ever heard breath work being used within this conversation. So how is that helping us? This is actually game-changing. because I think a lot of us have sort of learned maybe from porn as well that you hold your breath or it's short sharp breaths for sex but if you actually take a moment and really do some deep breathing during masturbation you'll be so surprised at the change in the pleasure capacity I like to put some of my hands on my lower stomach to really like focus in and you want to take a deep breath through your nose or your mouth and just like almost like bring the breath up to the top of your head and then back down again and if you're touching yourself you will feel the pleasure kind of like grow and expand when you're breathing I guess it's like when you get really lost in like a good sex session with a partner and you're like no one cares what they look like or what what they sound like anymore and it's just all this like deep animalistic breathing and it's like yeah you're fully in your body and I think breathing is the way that we can really connect with ourselves I mean we all know how incredible breath work is yeah it's really really life-changing I mean Florence with just so many good very simple practical tips I love that episode so much so there you go gang changing the way you breathe could make all the difference to your orgasms I'll leave you with that one.

49:24We can all do it. We can all breathe. There'll be links in the show notes to all the full episodes you heard, snippets of today, if you fancy going back and listening to them fully. All right, back here in just a few days with an episode we've recorded live at the Happy Place Festival in Gunnersbury Park. It's a very funny one, I'll tell you that much. In the meantime, a massive thanks to all the women you heard from today, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios, and to you, I love you.

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52:47love it, repeat.