Rita Ora: "It's all about what your body needs!" Body confidence starts with self-care

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. This is the show that looks to raise your self-esteem and body confidence. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Dove, and we're going to be getting into the incredibly important topic of body confidence, because let's be honest, how we feel about our bodies affects everything. Our energy, our self-respect, our relationships, our work, even when and how we engage and socialise with our kids and friends. So Happy Place is teaming up with Dove's self-esteem project to help us all reconnect with our bodies in a way that's kind, accepting, respectful and real.

0:37Today, I'm chatting to Rita Ora. I think for me, the idea of looking a certain way in my late 20s, that's when it started to hit me because my stamina was low. I wasn't looking after my body. I was getting sick a lot. And I didn't feel like my body was hot. I didn't accept the idea of like, OK, well, I'm not as thin as these other people. and so I'm ugly. And that's really sad to think back on because I know I wasn't. It's like what you do when you're attacking your younger self, like in therapy, and you're like, that girl was still really beautiful and I felt like I didn't appreciate her. I wonder if you've ever felt the way Rita says she did.

1:15I know I certainly have. I mean, if you grew up in the early 2000s like I did, you'll remember the intense pressure to look a certain way. The circle of shame in magazines, the endless diet fads, And that truly awful phrase, nothing tastes as good as skinny feels. I mean, listen, I definitely bought into some of those mad trends. And of course, it impacted how I saw myself. I guess I found it extra hard because not only was I imbibing that sort of content, but often my own body was scrutinised and put in magazines. And I think I put way too much attention on what my body looked like rather than what it felt like.

1:55and you know that led to disordered eating and definitely a lack of confidence and something that I've worked really hard to rectify since those days and the petrifying thing is guys the noughties are back in a big way and listen I'm actually quite enjoying watching young women embrace low slung jeans and those teeny little sunglasses as vintage and nostalgic but let me tell you I'm not nostalgic for the days of intense body scrutiny and I don't want us you and me to have our confidence zapped even more. Millennial women who grew up during that time now have the lowest body confidence of any generation.

2:33We're 1.6 times more likely to consider potentially harmful and expensive cosmetic procedures to change how we look. So this conversation really matters deeply to me. So before we get into today's chat, I want us to take a little moment, have a pause and think about this. What do you do to take care of yourself physically, physically mentally emotionally socially it can be anything i'll leave that with you and we'll come back to it later for brilliantly accomplished rita building body confidence means listening to her body eating whole foods moving regularly and prioritizing sleep not so that she looks a certain way but so that she feels she has the strength and stamina to achieve her goals massive goals by the way what a woman we talk in this chat about how she looks for ways to appreciate her body for what it allows her to do.

3:20Those energetic performances of hers, for one, because she understands the cost of trying to constantly chase and achieve society's ever-changing beauty ideals. Oh my gosh, I loved catching up with Rita so much. We talked about her new music and the incredible freedom of really dancing your socks off at a gig. That is such a good way of feeling connected to your body, letting yourself feel all that unadulterated euphoria in your bones. We talked about how she manages the anxiety that comes from her internal chatter and she tells the brilliant story of how she and her husband got together.

4:17how the hell are you I mean I haven't seen you for I couldn't tell you when I last saw you I know I was thinking in the car and I was like well first off I do love your podcast I think Happy Place is such a lovely positive cozy podcast which is where I'm at the moment I like listening to cozy things I like waking up and being in the good headspace and listening to like inspiring or just funny chats or good music yeah same um but you're in a good cozy place I am full of adrenaline and anxiety because I'm releasing new music and it's definitely the same feeling I had when I put out my first single back in 2012.

4:55Really? Why is that, do you think? I don't know. I don't know. I think it's just you always want it to be good. You always just want it to feel positive and everyone love it. And it's that whole thing of, I guess, like you can't control it and you've worked so hard on something and you put out in the world and it's just like that's all you can do yeah i don't know that feeling never went away but i like it it keeps me alive though no one wants to feel complacent especially when it's to do with the career they love i think you know we're both very lucky that we love what we do so i think true there's any form of complacency that's not a great feeling but i was watching a couple of bts videos on your instagram the other day oh yeah my vlogs Your vlogs.

5:37I do love a good vlog now. You do. And they're very entertaining. They're very entertaining. But on one of them, I was really, I don't know why I was surprised, because I feel the same about a lot of the things I do. But you were saying to your team, how do I get these nerves to go? I want them to go. Like, I don't like this. You're about to do a big show. I think it was with Kylie. Yeah. And you were like, how do I get rid of this feeling? Is that something that's always been there, that you have this surge of nerves before you go on? Yeah, it just comes to me. It's almost like a rush of a wave of something.

6:06It usually comes when, I mean, listen, I am very well prepared. I'm actually over prepared sometimes. I do a lot of rehearsal. Like I definitely walk into the situation with like a full plan, but you just can't beat the thoughts. And I think that's kind of always been my thing. It's just this sort of voice in your head that is like, okay, but make sure you do it. Make sure you do a good job. Okay, but have you done da da da? Like there's that constant conversation that I've always had. and you know I think that it just is what it is I live with it now but I breathe through it and like I try and do a lot of physical like I think you saw it in the diary actually I just do these like things where I bend over and I'm like it's like a wash of air and then you get back up and so physically doing things like that gets me out of the I shake my hands above my head that's good I don't know what this is but this gets everything I look like an absolute dickhead yeah that's one thing that We have to learn to be okay to look like...

7:07Oh, yeah. I pass that. I don't care. I mean, having kids makes you really realise that you're a dickhead the whole time. I can imagine. I was singing on the school run this morning and my son went, cringe. Ah! Okay. Cringe on the song choice or just cringe and singing? No, just me singing. Could have been any song. Just cringey. Oh, God. But I think, you know, you do have to move nerves on physically. It's not, you know, you have the voice in your head, but it sits in your body and it's not a nice feeling. I don't know how to even talk about it and it's probably going to be a surprise to some people that listen to this and think from the outside, wow, you've got so much, you should be so happy and so grateful.

7:42But it's not a sense of not being grateful. It's definitely just a sense of still wanting to deliver the right level of greatness that I think I want to deliver and that I know I can achieve. But those limits have never gone. Like I've always had this like limitless idea of life. and so that's the reality and it's like well why can't I do these things and feel the sense of accomplishment and have that level of like you know identity and greatness it definitely is something I've always believed in in myself that I can achieve and is it sort of striving for perfection what would you call it no I've never had a sense of perfection I've never been perfect grow I've been now in the public eye probably over 12 years like over a decade and so So, you know, everyone has, I think, seen me grow up a little bit in the sense of like how I speak, what I how I dress, the mistakes I've made.

8:40And I just feel as if I've always been an open book. And that, I think, has made my fans and I really close. Yeah, it's a good thing. It is. And in the moment when you're like, oh, damn it, I shouldn't have done these things. It really just brings you closer to people knowing that you're human. Yeah. And I think that connection I have with my fans, believe it or not, even when I was coming out in 2012, we didn't have Instagram. There was just Twitter. There still wasn't like Spotify and things. And so there was that sense of pure connection. And I think it's sort of paid off now because I will have built that then.

9:19So my fans have grown up with me. I think we still have that like real genuine like bond. Yeah. I love that you're so open and that we get to see. I don't think I've ever seen you on a show or you know like whether it's a TV show or when you're performing and I thought oh she's putting on a facade and it's you know it's a whole kind of fake thing so we all think her life's perfect I don't think I've ever got that vibe from you you're just what you see is what you get and that's a good thing but like you say that means then that whether it's good bad or ugly it's out there it's everything I feel like I've had pretty similar journey in some respects and it's painful It's hard when you either mess up or something goes wrong or, you know, whatever it is.

10:01Or people are bitching about you in the press. You know, it's a horrible feeling. Yeah. I think it's just also, I just try and find a sense of reality with my family and friends and people I love. Yeah. To sort of really, I actually do think I have two lives. That's like how I view it. It's like I have my work life, which is my baby and definitely something I'm so passionate about creatively. because it really keeps my juices flowing. Like being an artist is like, I wake up and I get excited. I still get excited about music and books and, you know, now film and being married to a filmmaker. Like he really opened my mind up and still does to films and books and things that I would never watch, like anime and comic books and things I definitely love watching now.

10:50And I was like, wow, I don't think I would ever have seen this if it wasn't for Taika and things like that. yeah no that keeps my artistic fluid going but then I get home or I get around friends and I just don't talk about it I don't talk about my job I don't talk about my like things outside of you know that have to do with work and that's I think really saved me a lot yeah I think you have to sort of compartmentalize things otherwise you go mad if you just live in that sphere constantly it's so intense it's so full of scrutiny I think you do need that grounding and just to be and it's routine I find that having a normal routine is also something that people shouldn't be surprised about like I like to take the train you know when I'm home I definitely don't like driving I prefer taking public transport gets me places quicker I walk to the shops I go and get a coffee with my mum in the cafe around the corner.

11:49I mean, I did that yesterday when I got in from Frankfurt. I had a concert and I got in at like three o 'clock and I said, should we just walk around? She's in Queen's Park. And we just went and got a coffee in Bobby's, which is like my favourite coffee shop there. And I see Louis through there all the time, actually. Oh, Louis. And I'm always like, hi, Louis. And he's walking up and down as well. And those little things. Yeah. Just normal stuff. Are just so important. yeah and priceless they really are anyway I mean you have always seemed to me again you know I only know you to a level but you always see seem to be extremely resilient someone that will bounce back from everything I take pride in that thank you so much I think it's amazing yay where do you think that comes from I guess I just um my parents yeah they're very resilient people they've bounced back from real things like cancer and being financially really unstable at certain points of us growing up and keeping that out of our world like just parenting I feel like I have so much respect for I'm not a parent yet but I'm a step-mom and I've decided that like whoa next level respect it's for you guys you know you as a mom and it really is no joke parenting is no joke as well it's really complicated it's a beautiful beautiful dynamic but it's not simple no i just see myself as a fairy godmother like you know i'm the one that gives them chocolate and i'm the one that doesn't have to worry about the sugar levels yes you can just go here you go bye and i will buy your love and i'm okay with being okay with that until they love me you will love me um but no it's not about buying but you know i'll do those things that you know that their parents can't do because i know that they have to worry about getting them to sleep at a certain time, whereas I've just given them a milkshake.

13:42And I'm like... But it is such a lovely... I mean, we've talked a bit about step-parenting on the podcast. We've had a set like Kate Ferdinand's been on and we've talked about it with a few other guests who I can't think of right now. But it's a really... It seems like a niche topic when it shouldn't be because there's so many blended families out there now. We know that. I've actually noticed that a lot now being a step-mom, yeah. But it's not talked about anywhere near enough, certainly in comparison to parenting. And many of us are or have been for many years trying to navigate step parenting and work out our own rules and how it works.

14:13Do you think you've taken to it naturally? I don't know. I actually don't know. I just definitely didn't do the research. No, I didn't. I don't know if you know that you need to. No. And I feel like you just sort of get lumped in a scenario, you know, usually inspired by love, obviously. And you're like, OK, well, I'll do anything to make this work because I love this person. and then you end up genuinely loving the family that you're in usually I mean I'm very lucky I've been in a great position and I have really cool stepkids they're so fun but I just wanted it to be easy yeah you know and that's kind of the approach I took and it is different for everyone and I'm very lucky I was very lucky I'm still very lucky yeah I feel the same I love my step yeah they're amazing um and they're getting like in the teenage years it's really fun because i'm also like in that point where i'm like so tell me what's going on and like give me the trying to get a goss but i feel like they think that that's what old people do i don't know if they think that that's what do you just call yourself an old person i think to them lol yeah that's hilarious i think to them obviously i am because i'm like all right so what's the goss like where's you know what's the boyfriend chat and they're looking at me like what i know we are out of the Is that like an old thing to ask?

15:32I don't know. I mean, it probably is. I still think I'm 18. I mean, I'm turning 44 soon. Like, fucking hell. I still think I'm 18. You're young. And it's like, no. And I don't know the lingo. And I don't know what's appropriate. I'm like, boyfriend? Do we still say that? I don't know. Are you going out? Like, what's the lingo? What is it? We need to get up on this, Rita. I thought you were young and cool and I was going to learn from you. I just love the music. Like, the young... I listen to music, like, insane amount of time of my day. like is in car rides i always do you're connecting through that because you can tip them off as to what's good yeah yeah so like they get surprised when i know like mkg and like all these sort of like young more underground he's amazing i think i'm saying his name right okay see there i am getting old but feeling young but i don't know but like i listen to a lot of music i think that's the way i stay that's the way to stay connected i mean if we go back to sort of parenting clearly you will have by osmosis picked up some tips from your own parents even with your step parenting now because you're doing it intuitively it's not something like you say you've researched or you're really thinking too much about you're just doing it and again if we go back to the wonderful louis i loved your louis through documentary with him and we saw you all having dinner together as a family which was so lovely and learning about you know your parents were cosovan refugees they they We came here with very little, had to start all over, not really knowing anyone, which is so, so intense for a couple with a young family.

17:02And they were young too. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm sure a lot of your resilience is kind of just in you because of that. You've just imbibed it from seeing it. Yeah, absolutely. and I think that's kind of why I notice it in other women more than I think I guess people even pay attention to it I feel like actually I know more women I think in my life that are resilient than men to be fair that's just the way I've been raised I have a lot of women in my life that are so resilient not that the men in my life aren't but I have more women in my life and I loved that I loved the jokes that they made the sort of empowering coffee breaks that all these wives and my mum's friends would have together and you know talking about things that they do and like laughing about it and almost feeling like how could you not do 17 things at the same time like that was just how the women around me were and um with extra strong coffee too like we just had this conversation this morning like i'm talking like turkish thick coffee yeah and they would have like 17 of them and i'm just like these women are like that was sort of how i grew up and some were smoking and it was like smoke in the air and coffee going i guess it's just that eastern european environment but yeah i think my idols were that you know and I see that now in women like Jennifer Lopez and you know Lady Gaga and Katy Perry and you know I love that there's this ageless identity at the moment and I find that so exciting and it feels like there is a real shift in music that there's no age that you can be great and I love that me too you know Gaga's what 38 I don't know sorry I don't know how old she is but like she's killing it and it's really cool abracadabra such a tune i'm still determined that i'm gonna learn the dance routine to that like i know four seconds of it it's cool and i mean it's so she went back into her like dark really cool pop love and that's how i fell in love with her that's a bit like what i wanted to do with my new music like i coming out 2012 hot right now in the sun like feeling like i was in a rave like i missed that energy and so i was like that's what we're going to do with this music with this new record what do your parents think of your music like would you play them your album before anyone else yeah they're old school though they're like when are you going to sing a ballad so good when are you going to sing something that shows off your voice like i am and i love that and i do that but it's true my music some of it is very sort of pop and more character like i try and find a character and a persona in all my songs and some of them are more like talky sexy and like heat sex on site which is like the start of the single my new single it's not singy but now my mom's like oh my heart will go on was such a good song i was like you know i do miss those types of songs sliding yeah i'm like but i do i miss those timeless moments but it's different music has just changed yeah and you can't really put that out right now do you know what i mean it's like we need big dance bangers that's what's happening in the music sphere you can I'm just not that artist I love going out I love being able to give people a sense of like freedom and joy and dancing and if you've ever been to one of my shows like it's a lot of dancing and yeah letting the music take you and you know my choreography isn't so in place and I like to feel free on stage and you know rock and roll and have that essence of just like sweat and skin and like freedom yeah I feel like your mom's a bit like my mum like she's never gonna go oh sweetie it was so great well done you that's not my mum my mum would be like your mum sort of like it's a sort of a dig but disguised as something that's kind of half a compliment yeah but not saying too much about anything and you're like what's that yeah was that a compliment yeah not what was that but it's such a good character like i always love those characters in shows and it actually also drives you further because you can you're never gonna just rest on your laurels and go yeah I've nailed it I've smashed it like I could do better I know but then there's that thing if it's like is it ever enough yeah no you know it's not and then there's that constant thing you're like okay what's next what's next what's next and I I have a dear friend of mine he's a great filmmaker and photographer and we grew up together in West London and we always meet up and he's been a friend of mine since I was like 14 likely I used to sleep on his couch he used to sleep on my couch and just yesterday I was like oh my gosh I've just got this like unsettling feeling of the single out and I just want to make sure it's been reached out to as many people as possible like internationally like how are we doing in Mexico how are we doing in India how are we doing in this it's like is it on the playlists over there is it like I'm micromanaging and also like we're talking about the globe here like the whole world not just the UK like looking at all the countries yes and he said to me look you're doing great relax and I'm like but you know it's he said you remember where you were you've done so good from where you were and be okay with that and be happy with that and I was like yeah and then I finally had a good night's sleep but you just need somebody to tell you that sometimes yeah I think if that's your personality I'm the same you know you don't ever feel like oh I'm just gonna sit back and look at what I've achieved and pat myself on the back I'm always thinking about what's the next thing what's the next thing well it's also does it stem from pressure external pressure of you know social media as we all know I know it's a very popular topic explaining it and understanding it and trying to navigate that life now um does it stem from then social media leading into pressure leading into mental health leading into you changing your lifestyles and routines to meet or match these psychological comparisons that you might not be saying out loud but you're doing anyway without even I feel like knowing that you're doing it subconsciously I think some of it's definitely from that I think you know we're all we're all impacted by comparison and looking at what everyone else is doing and everything's so fast now I also think you know like I said at the start we're we're both lucky that we love what we do and that's amazing and And I'm all, I don't know how you feel, but I'm always slightly on the side of it could all go.

23:33Don't fuck it up. Even though I'm like 27 years into this, I'm like, it could go. It could all go. I'm never relaxed enough to just think I'm just going to keep doing this forever. And there's a little bit of fear there that it could go. Yeah, I say nice because that's a really good point. It's like, especially when you don't come from a lot, that fear of it all going in the blink of an eye. I don't think that ever leaves us. Nope. It definitely keeps you grounded. I think that for sure. I think so. It will also come out in the wash, I feel like, eventually. If that isn't in your DNA and you haven't been that true authentic self, eventually people will find out.

24:13And I actually think that's what's kept me, I think, in this business for so long. I think people just now know that, oh, wow, she has always been herself. And I've paid the price of it, though, in the early years. But I think now I'm finally reaping the benefits of the honesty that I've shown since the beginning. What do you think the price was? What do you think it cost you? Just oversharing and sometimes the teams being like, oh, you could have done without saying that. and opinions and having sort of, I would say, unpopular opinions at times, making choices at young ages that obviously you probably can get away with if you weren't famous, you know, being drunk on the street or like sort of trying to call a black cab and I'm famous.

25:05So it's almost like, oh my gosh, is that Rita that's had a few drinks trying to call a black cab in the middle of Camden, you know? Which would be a completely normal scene if you weren't Rita Ora. Yeah, but I still do those things and I have been and did those things. And now I'm feeling like it's easier for me to do those things. Like, that's what I mean. It's like, I think it's finally paid off a little bit and people aren't as surprised. And I genuinely recognize the cabbies that drive me sometimes. Like, that's how many times I've been in black cabs. And they're like, oh, I read. And I'm like, hey, babes, you all right?

25:37And they're like, you remember me? I'm like, oh, my God, I actually do. Well sadly there's fewer and fewer of them as well So we've got to keep them in work We love the Black Cabs Save the Black Cabs Let's talk about the era Where you first came onto the scene We became aware of you in 2012 But of course you were doing music long before that Various iterations Trying to get your music out there Signing with Rock Nation You had this whole history Which predates 2012 But it's a really interesting era if we go back to maybe even the early noughties yeah the crazy thing now and you'll know this from even having stepkids is that the early noughties we're now we've gone full circle and it's now like a nostalgia piece which for me i can't believe because it was four seconds ago but we're now looking to the early noughties like it's vintage and the fashion's back i know i can't the fashion's back and the music influence is back and people are kind of looking to that era were like oh my god the early noughties what would is i can't it was literally yesterday for you in 1990 yeah so then in the early 2000s you were what in west london at this point i was i was in uh labbrook grove labbrook grove portobello market i love it though yes you walk up the portobello road you were working in a trainer shop i was were you wearing like what was the vibe was it because around those the the early 2000s it was like juicy tracksuit with the diamante balm was Is that your style?

27:03I love. I still love it. Yeah, but it's back. It's back. It is. Yeah. And I'm like, this is going to sound insane what I'm about to say. But I was just on a jet with Paris Hilton. I saw these pictures. I saw these pictures. This is so disconnected. No, this is also what we want. Come on, they can be two truths at the same time. I have to just explain it to somebody because I still can't believe it. It was you, Paris, and Cara Delevingne. Yeah. I saw the pictures. And it's called Sliv Air. Yeah. Because you're sliving. I don't know if you know the Paris dialect. Oh, yeah. But the Paris Dictionary is iconic.

27:35Also in the Paris Dictionary. I love her. And she invited me on Sliv Air. First time she flew this plane. Right, so you get on the plane, describe it. What's going on on the plane? I met Paris a very long time ago. And believe it or not, obviously she has this character that everybody knows of Paris Hilton. Yeah. But she is one of the most supportive, down-to-earth, I know it's crazy to believe. Oh, I know. She was the realist, like, businesswoman, smartest woman. Like, the things she was saying to me on this plane about business and team building and character building and an identity and finding an identity, it was unbelievable.

28:14Like, she needs to, I know she's got 100 books, but, like, being a person and a character and a sort of pop star and anything is more than just being one thing. It's clever branding on her part as well there. In real life, she literally talks like this. When she spoke to me out of character, I was like, what the fuck? Anyway, let's live here. Yeah. Going to Washington, D.C. It was Pride Month and we had this incredible epiphany of still existing. And even with Cara, I've known Cara when she was 18, 19 years old, Delevingne. And we would go out together. There's pictures of us roaming up and down Oxford Street and central London.

28:50And she would come out on my shows. And I mean, we were this close. We went everywhere together. and Paris obviously still being Paris Hilton we were like how have we still how how are we still doing this and Paris was like because you're that bitch yes can that be on a t-shirt and I was like that's so good you're right I'm that bitch and she was like you have to keep telling yourself that you have to yes you're that bitch and I was like yes and she made these t-shirts that said gay for Paris. Love. And like we had to wear it. What was my point of telling you this Paris Hilton story? Who cares?

29:30Who cares? Oh the juicy tracksuit. Oh that's it. Yeah. Did she have one? And she had one on. Of course she did. She had one on. She's been wearing them consistently since the early 2000s. Pink velour. Without a doubt. I'm so jealous. I want that tracksuit. The pride flowers on the jet. I mean I had the best time of my life. Of course you did. Anyway. I just had to share it with someone. I'm so glad you shared it with us. Can I come next time? If there's like I know her a bit I made a documentary about her a thousand years ago I've been to her house I've swung around her pole yeah but also let's just go back to I'm that bitch which is now my new mantra which I'll be using maybe that's the name of this episode I think it might be but I am making my own bespoke t-shirt I'm stealing it she's like you're that bitch and don't forget it yes you're gonna land you're gonna do this show because I had a show at Pride and it was Washington DC World Pride which is like for me I've done all the Prides like in all the countries and it's a big, big, big, huge priority for me, this community, the LGBTQIA plus community.

30:28I do everything for them, for the gays, for the queens. Like, they've supported me through everything. And I feel like the World Pride was, like, the ultimate. Yeah. And it was really fun. Oh, it's so great. I love it. Happy Place is partnering with the Dove Self-Esteem Project to explore how women can build real body confidence. And self-care is a massive part of this conversation. Back in the early 2000s, we were sold fat burning pills and appetite suppressants. Today, we might feel things are slightly better, but I think we're still being sold different ideas and early morning routines that might not be benefiting us at all.

31:07Here's the question. Are these hacks really about your health or are they a thinly veiled attempt to control the way you look? Because according to Duff, millennial women are 1.3 times more likely to define self-care as working on their appearance. So earlier I asked you to think about your self-care routine. Now whatever you answered I now want you to ask yourself am I doing this for me or because I feel I should? Is it something I deeply enjoy and my body genuinely needs or something I've absorbed from magazine covers, social media or airbrush celebrities? What's the motivation behind it? I know that this can be quite confronting.

31:45I'm right there with you. But I think at this point in my life, I feel like I know myself a hell of a lot better. So I know what kind of movement for a start is going to work for me. I don't want to do these HIIT workouts that I used to do, like sprinting on a running machine for half an hour until I'm literally sweating and sweating and sweating. I want to move gently, I want to move intuitively, I want to feel good. It's so much more about how I'm feeling. The same with what I'm eating. I want to eat foods that make me feel really energised and whole and like I can really take on the whole day ahead and I'm really not into any over complicated beauty routines that are going to take up precious minutes that I could be with my kids or doing something that I know really makes me feel good.

32:33So how could you tweak your self-care to be more about listening to your body, not trying to fix it. Every body and its needs is different, which is why it's massively important not to follow the trends or do something just because your mate or that woman online does. Maybe self-care actually looks like letting go of routines that drain your time, money and energy. Maybe it just really looks like going for a walk on your lunch break, booking a GP appointment for that niggling issue, calling a friend who makes you howl with laughter just take a couple of seconds to really think about it all right we'll check in on all of this later let's get back to Rita and how she takes care of herself so look we can we can look at these juicy track suits that was the sign of the times we can reminisce sign of the times I mean I had I had a lot of fun in the early noughties you know like all eras there's a good side and there's a slightly darker side the good side I was really lucky I was in the thick of the music industry at that point i was having an absolute riot it was just pure you were just mixing it was rubbing shoulders with literally the coolest people in the world i mean i was not one of them but i was absolutely in the mix and it was i mean you're cool very fun in my upbringing it was like you call alexa chung like that era i am not in her bracket but no it was it was that time of like going to see shows like yeah it was the music scene was so exciting there was a lot bands and all the genres were kind of mixing together it was really really exciting if we look at perhaps the sort of toxic undertone of that era like I said there's a toxic undertone to most things and most eras but if we specifically look at that because it is this nostalgic piece that young people are looking to at the moment it was also the inception of everyone talking about size zero which you know sort of American concept that came over here and we saw it in the press and it was like what the hell is this we had the size zero thing going on which was you know incredibly confusing for lots of young people I would have been I can't do maths I was in my early 20s in the early 2000s is that right yeah I would have been and so I was and I was in the industry so I was really susceptible to all of this messaging that was coming and going and and seeing women that were you know incredibly tiny yeah with not much nuance especially on the catwalks it was really a time where that felt quite potent I think it impacted me most definitely I wouldn't say exclusively because I think also just like growing up in tv there's a whole bunch of other stuff going on and I mean I did have an eating disorder I had bulimia for about 10 years but I think some of that was because of this some of it was control some of it was other factors but I think it's undeniable that most of us were impacted when we look at body confidence and how we saw ourselves I mean you were much younger at that point but when you came on the scene in 2011-2012 and we've still got the kind of the hangover of that era how did that impact you where was your body confidence at?

35:32I think around then I was very confident in my body because I was just so happy to be doing what I loved and if you look back at my music videos and how I dressed I had such a specific style to like how I wanted to look that that was there was no compromising that and that has to come from a sense of like determination and like no one is going to change my mind because I was so it was so important for me to be a specific character for my music like you know you create a world for your album and that world for me was like tomboy masculine with the mix of sexiness and hot pants but with trainers and I definitely didn't feel the pressures of being thin around then I actually feel them more now than I did in the early uh I would say because I guess 2012 13 14 15 there was a real I would say celebration in plus size models I remember that yeah because I do remember seeing the tide something shift yeah you know I had breasts and you know it was all very like in my early 20s I was just really confident in that in my body then but I actually think now it is worse than it was then why do you think that is you know we're we're working with Dove at the moment and this is their whole self esteem project that we're basing this conversation on and I think self esteem it's such an interesting topic you know where that confidence comes from that sense of self comes from it's so layered it is so layered but you know some of it will be conditional what we're experiencing now some of it will be how we've been brought up some of it will be the messaging that's targeted at women So why would you say your self-esteem or your body confidence has maybe declined?

37:28So if we compare it back to when I first came out, I actually didn't, I wasn't prepared for the public, for the press, for the attention. I was very just happy to have music out and I hoped that people liked it. It was like that simple. and I ended up getting all these clothes and free clothes being thrown at me and campaigns and fashion and TV shows, The Voice and X Factor and Adidas Ambassador and everything happened at once and so I think I was excited and now I've gotten a grip of I would say reality a bit more like with experience and sort of now being in the game a little longer. It all stems from what you think you need to look like I think that that's again social media and things that I've seen also in the health community like I'm really into the gym I think that's my sense of therapy and you know people do meditation and I don't have a phone or music during my workout like in Pilates and hot Pilates like I like silence it's just how I am I do listen to music towards the end to just like do my cardio blast and that is what gets me through because I hate cardio but I have to do it I don't think anyone loves it as much but no I need it to keep me going for my shows so I think that's it's really important to find your sense of purpose with your mental health and it's not going to be through the internet and through social media so would you say like even going to the gym or doing Pilates is that because you want your body to look a certain way is it for your mental health where's that pressure coming from would you say it started from stamina I started working out intensely when I turned 30 because I noticed I was just my stamina was low on my shows like I was losing my breath after the third song and I started to feel like sick and I was getting sick a lot and I was not being able to show up and I thought what is going on and like nutrition and got a new, I didn't even get a nutritionist actually.

39:32I just started to just cancel out rubbish food. And I noticed things and I started to feel lighter in my body. And I looked in the mirror and I was feeling really good, but it wasn't because I was getting thinner. It was because I was feeling good. I just was getting healthy. And so my muscles started to react in a good way and I was doing weights. And then I started to pick up three kilograms, two kilograms and now I've noticed that I sleep better and I feel better and I can handle an hour show yeah and I think it just comes with age like in my 20s I could handle an hour show without working out oh you can do anything in your 20s I could do an hour show hungover yeah and I was like now in my 30s you know I can't do a show hungover I can't drink on the days of work I can't but I look forward to my cheat days like that's me going out and I'm going to eat whatever I want and I think that is vital to have like a free day yeah my god absolutely I think you're so right as you get older the why behind everything you're doing changes I want to feel strong you know I know that from my age onwards muscle is just going to decline naturally and I've got to work extra hard to keep it and I want to feel strong and I think in my 20s and especially that sort of early noughties era I did feel a lot of that pressure was from the outside world and I wanted to look a certain way and I care so much less about that now I want to feel energized I want to feel strong I want to feel capable in all the stuff I want to do in the day I do think I hope people can look at it as coming from a place of how do you want to feel rather than how do you want to look women's bodies have forever throughout history been scrutinized yeah disproportionately you know compared to men's it's you know even women chatting about other women's bodies or our bodies is scrutinized if there's so much attention on the female body it is wild i know it's absolutely wild and i think you do have to have a certain it doesn't if it'd be confidence but a certain feeling as like I know for instance I've got small tits flat ass I'm never going to have a hip and a gorgeous voluptuous you know set of hips I'm just sort of straight and that's my body's it doesn't matter if I'm bigger smaller that is the shape of my body and I've got a characterful nose that's not going anywhere like I know these things about myself and actually with age I'm pretty I sort of don't think about them really I just thought I just want to feel like I've got energy I want to I want my digestive system to be working well I want to it's all the basics I'll have a good shit in the morning let's just be plain speaking about this I want to have a good shit in the morning I want to have energy I want to feel strong they are the main things I'm going for me too and I think feeling strong is everything it is and I see that now with my mother and I'm always telling her to go and exercise and she does like light pilates and it's really changed her body and she goes for walks and I can see it just I'm trying to think about the longevity of life and i really hope that everyone does the same yeah me too i bought my mum dumbbells the other day yeah me too then i hope you pick them up i hope she has i've got my mum ankle weights oh they're good aren't they just one kilogram yeah that's good and yeah you just walk with them um around and it really i do that myself what are your absolute self-care non-negotiables your musts that you you have to do my routine in the morning is pretty complex but it's important taking my supplements i do you know your traditional vitamin c uh omega threes um i do a bit of mushroom extracts not the psychedelic ones like the lion's manes and the turkey tails and all of that brain food i call it yeah and i do a little green juice i do an ag1 at the moment which has all your nad and minerals and all of that stuff i can talk about this forever The typical supplements I would recommend, if any, would just simply be vitamin C, magnesium, omega-3s.

43:34Like, start there. I'm big on magnesium. B12. And B12. Yeah, and then I do my exercise routine. And so 20 minutes minimum if I don't have any time. What are we talking like? Are you doing HIIT? Are you doing Pilates? I have an in-home Pilates set up. So it's as simple as a yoga mat and a couple dumbbells. You honestly don't need much. I do two kilogram, three kilogram weights. and I do like a 20 minute class on Zoom, not live, just like an app, just to get that blood flowing. It's important to just keep your body moving. I need to sleep more than eight hours. I just have to. Really? Christ, I'm happy with seven.

44:10Wow, that's amazing. Maybe that'll change once I get seven. I'm like absolutely buzzing. Well, that's also maybe now because you've had kids and they wake up at the crack of dawn. I've noticed. Well, they don't even anymore. I just can't lie in. I can't do it. I just can't. Yeah, no, I need eight hours, but that's non-negotiable, especially when I have to work like I have obviously like jet lag and things you can't beat it but um for the Kylie Minogue tour I was I'm in bed like we didn't go out at all and she's very strict too I learned a lot from her as well it's like being an athlete like you really have to try not to get sick go to bed take your magnesium but guys it's not rock and roll it's not it's not rock and roll I mean if I was in a rock and roll band it'd be different but it is a one-man show at this job.

44:53Yeah, it's magnesium and good night. So yeah, I think my routine is important. Taking my supplements, trying not to get sick, sleeping eight hours. Winding down is hard for me. That's a big one. Like when I come off stage, it's difficult. My adrenaline is booming and I have to like, I don't know, read a book or something, listen to it. I've started audio books. I've never been into an audio book like I've usually physically liked to read but I like now closing my eyes and listening to music or or words nice like I've been listening to this Henry Miller incredible like interview on YouTube and it's just him talking about like books and his library and Big Sur and like I actually went to visit it it's unbelievable and I love just him explaining it and you can hear him like inhaling a cigarette and like there's something so nice about the atmosphere I love that um and so yeah I've been into really doing things like that I love that and what helps you keep your self-esteem afloat because you know there's all these things we can do like taking supplements exercising but I think also just the amount of imagery we're bombarded with and the sort of level of comparison that we can all slip into can really affect us mentally are you quite disciplined with your phone do you look at it a lot yeah I think for me the discipline in is about just learning how to switch off so putting my phone down uh making sure i'm present staying really clear in conversation and um communicating i think that's important um more than ever you know to really uh take away that comparison that we get subconsciously in our minds just by scrolling on our phones yeah we all do it i know we all and it's okay to say that out loud and it's okay to also say you know what for 30 minutes i'm going to scroll but then put it down yeah exactly give yourself like a time limit we all know when you get to that bit we were like i i'm still standing in the same spot and i'm sure i was meant to be going to the kitchen to do something and i haven't made it there yet because i'm still stood here when your hands get uh locked numb numb you get you know you get your you're like wow i think i've been holding my phone too much yeah it's not good yeah that's time to put the phone down definitely we've all done it we've all done it yes would you say like looking back over your career or even you know years predating your career have there been self-care habits or things that you've done that you've just thought I don't know why I'm doing this but everybody else is doing it and it seems like I should be doing this or it's come from a place of pressure rather than what actually feels good to you yeah I would I think for me the idea of looking a certain way in my late 20s that's when it started to hit me because my stamina was low I wasn't looking after my body I was getting sick a lot and that's when I was thinking I was like not hot I didn't feel like my body was hot I didn't accept the idea of like okay well I'm not as thin as these other people and so I'm ugly and that's really sad to think back on because I know I wasn't and I felt really it was that it's like what you do when you're attacking your younger self like in therapy and you're like that girl was still really beautiful and I felt like I didn't appreciate her and now I'm looking back and I'm like she was awesome and I think I mean I learned that in therapy I do therapy once a week and I'm very into talking to my younger self and I just feel like we should never forget that and now I'm looking back like you were awesome Rita you went through a lot and you still were able to like show up every day and be a judge on the voice and um do concerts and all of that stuff and so yeah.

48:26Yeah, we all do it. We're all horrible to our younger selves. It's not nice and I think most women out there... I don't have my phone. Oh, I'll show you. I'll have a picture of myself on my phone as a kid. Yeah. I love it. Your baby retard. And I look at it all the time. That's so nice and you can say nice things to her. And I always ask my parents, do I have fingers? Because my thumbs were like that. My hands were always inside and I'm like, did you guys like buy me fingers or did you chop my fingers off? Because why is every picture of me as a kid like that crunched up? What was that about? I don't know.

48:52safety thing they're like you were always holding something i'm like that's so weird how funny i was always supposed to be a staff you had a mic in hand yeah exactly ready to bow out a ballad at any point um how have you made the distinction between a routine that is based on outside pressures and one that feels right to you one that is bespoke that makes you feel good um i think it's about making the decisions so like learning what sort of exercise works for your body i'm not just doing something that you've seen on instagram because somebody looks good and you want to look like them because it won't work for your body you need to do things and test things out to figure out what your body needs it's all about what your body needs instead of what you think it needs yeah i mean most women out there have have felt they're worried about people judging their appearance which is you know specifically many women and men but many women feel 62 percent of women worry that they've been judged for their appearance and i think you know so many things feed into why we feel like that but I think you know the majority of women feel that pressure and I don't know what the answer is to for us to all feel slightly less judged I mean just kind of I think the one thing it's just being present 62 % is a lot it's probably more than 62 % I would say and that's more than half I think also what we forget is you know I used to just you know worry all the time about I did not like my nose from the side if I saw it on a monitor or whatever I would really not be a fan of it or parts of my body at times because of these pressures and what we all forget is that we're not being you know maybe some of us have been judged by other people we've been called awful names that happens all the time we've we've had it in the press we've had it from people on twitter instagram but most of the time people are worrying about themselves true they're not worrying about you everyone's sat there worrying about themselves and their own insecurity that you won't have even noticed whether it's like I should be breathing in or oh my god I don't like my forehead or whatever the thing is everyone else is worrying about their version of that I think there's a stigma on the word selfish you know there's there's nothing wrong with being selfish because prioritizing yourself is different to being selfish like you need a bit of selfishness to be your own priority yeah yeah I mean do you and your mum have chats about whether it is body image or confidence levels or low self-esteem we're best friends me and my mum no we talk a lot like I tell her everything I tell her like did I look okay in that or and she's like you of course you did you look great you are fucking great and that's nice to hear from your mum I'm really lucky does she love your husband oh the jokes that they have she loves him they're like little best buds yeah my dad loves him even more which was important for me yeah all the jokes are flowing in the house we have really big laughs in our home that's so lovely I mean you and your husband started off as mates before you got together how do you think that impacts the dynamic once you're married it doesn't have a different feel to other relationships you've had I think it's like the key it hasn't changed anything I think when you get married and it hasn't changed that feels I think that's a good sign listen I'm in my own my only marriage I'm not trying to teach anyone anything I'm just telling you that having that sense of friendship built so much confidence in our now marriage like we are like that like we would date we were dating other people when we were friends we were talking about our relationships to each other when we were friends we would see each other at dinner parties and at parties and I would be like oh this guy I'm seeing is literally making me sick and I would like tell him why and he would laugh he's like make a note for that when we're dating well he makes the joke of that um that he's always tried to tell me and give me signs since the first day we met but I honestly never saw him oh my god I literally was like what are you talking about he was like what about all those nights when everybody went home and it was just you and me in the kitchen and we were just sort of like drinking and talking I was like I thought that was just simply because we were talking and you were enjoying my company you're so cute he was already in love with you and you didn't even know I guess I guess and he was like well do you think I want to stay up till 5am for anybody and I was like that was a bit late and I was thinking why are you staying Rita you weren't getting the queues babe and I was trying to say like go home I'm tired but he was trying to stay and I was like do you want me to call you an Uber and he's like no let's just keep on talking he was like well I guess I don't want you to call me an Uber but okay it's so how long you've been married for now a couple of years it would be it's gonna be three years this August.

53:29Oh my god, that's so lovely. I mean obviously you're both so busy which I think is actually a really beautiful pairing that you are equals. You both have things you're super passionate about, you can champion each other, you know you both understand that your work's going to take you away and lead you to travel and have unsociable hours. Do you have set times where you're just at home doing married things or is it just kind of relentlessly chaotic? We definitely have busy timetables it is all about making time for each other through conversation like physically I understand it's sometimes impossible but we have to talk once a day like at least at least on a FaceTime or a phone call and text throughout the day and check in that's like a non-negotiable for me I'm a very like I need attention in a relationship and I don't think that's a bad thing I just want you to I just want to know that you're thinking about me yeah like all the every second of the day if possible can you text me scheduled every 30 seconds i'm a sagittarius that's just we're fire signs and so he's a leo he's also a fire sign so leo and sagis i don't know if people listen you know follow astrology but i'm a very spiritual person so i believe in these things and like he is also an attention seeker and as i might and so it goes from us wanting both to check in on each other and i said since we both like that then we both should make an effort to do that.

54:49So it's lovely that we like the same things. Yeah, that's really good. Exactly. You agree on it. It's fine. It's a mutually agreed situation. Yeah. It's a good thing. Knowing that you're in the thick of, you know, that promo part of a musician's career is wild, especially when it's global, because you're constantly doing back-to-back interviews, performances, you're on live TV. you could be in two different continents in the same day it's absolute mayhem yeah if we think about this self-esteem project and knowing that for you that's got to be intact for you to be in front of big audiences to be on camera you need to be feeling good about yourself what three things will you keep in mind to ensure that you feel confident and that your self-esteem is in check oh that's a great question I love this question um again routine so like if you're traveling I think it's important to have the skincare you like or little sort of weights in your hotel room that's what I do and a yoga mat and that's why I do a quick 20 minutes like that's the minimum 20 minutes I just make sure I check in with my family before I get crazy like before I look at emails and things look do I look at my phone I wake up sometimes I'm not like amazing at it yeah um but i put it down and then i do my routine like i think you just have to check yourself i'm confident i love my team they make me happy so i have great friends in my team i think that's important familiar faces friendships uh if you don't have a team around you checking in with friends making having a little chat and making sure that the work is done like i actually enjoy working i'm a very hard worker i think discipline is important and when i finish a day of work i'm like really happy I'm proud of myself there's nothing wrong with being a hard worker especially with women and I think that there's a stigma on like women not feeling like they can do more than one thing and or not wanting to talk about it as much and I actually love talking about the fact that I do 100 things at once and my husband is a huge champion and I think that that's important too and he's like I just can't believe you do so much and I love that my husband thinks that and having that identity is really empowering for me.

57:08He's proud of you. And I do think that if you ever find somebody, you need to have that mutual respect and proud of each other of whatever it is that you guys do. Yeah, because I think, you know, for someone like you doing so much and achieving so much and having that high level of success, there could be some men out there that would be intimidated by that or wouldn't know how to deal with it. I've experienced it in past relationships. it sucks and it's like why would I dim my light you know there's an you do it also without knowing by the way that you're starting to sort of dim your light a little bit and you don't say the same jokes or go out as much and you're a bit like what's going on and then you realize when your friends are like where have you been and you know when your friend goes oh well I didn't really like him anyway I'm like you could have told me that you could have told me five years ago mate Jesus Christ um but yeah it's it's all of those little elements I think that make you a better person you are quite literally doing it all Rita Ora it's wild and brilliant I'm grateful I want to keep going yeah well no we don't we all we just gotta keep working hard and doing it all and being that bitch yes oh my gosh Paris Hilton Paris Hilton you are that bitch you are that bitch you bloody well are Rita where would you say your happy place is uh honestly like at home with my husband, my family, and eating a really lovely meal like a burger and chips.

58:34I love a burger. I just can't, I just am so inspired by whoever decided to put meat or whatever type of, if you're vegan, whatever, in the middle of two bits of bread. Such a good idea. Genius. It's genius, yeah. But I just want to shout out Dove for having me as well. I love Dove. It's been a part of my upbringing since I can remember. Rita, what a joy to have you on Happy Place. Thank you. Good luck with all of your endeavours this year. You are nailing it. I love you. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Happy place. Oh, Rita, thank you. What joy you are. The thing I love about Rita is she just says it as it is.

59:09There is no lying or hiding the truth with Rita. She just says what she's thinking. And I love that about her. I've seen her over the years at different work events and interviewed her several times. And she's just always so polite, so pleasant, so full of energy and joy. We love you, Rita. and how are you feeling has your brain been ticking over thinking about your own self-care habits maybe you've realized some of them are a little bit more about pressure than pleasure that's okay listen look we're all about learning no judgment here i know there's that saying that you have to suffer for beauty but we can just put that one in the bin right now beauty should not hurt or be stressful or unhealthy it's not about looking like someone else it's about being fun and playful and celebrating your own unique size, shape, skin tone and creativity.

59:57And also none of this is about what you do, whether it's Pilates or journaling or meditating, it's about why you do it. From today, promise me we're going to commit to caring for our bodies because they deserve it, not because we want to change them. Okay, this is such a huge conversation, let's carry it on on Instagram. At Dove and at Happy Place Official, I can't wait to hear what ridiculous naughty strength you're absolutely putting in the bin celery juice cleanse goodbye and if you want more support Dove has created a brilliant journal full of body confidence exercises to help in building better awareness about our internalized beauty belief systems that may be more harmful than helpful you can find it at dove.com slash y2k for now a massive thanks again to Rita to Dove for making this episode happen to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios and to you redefine self-care on your terms my loves