Rob da Bank: Burnout, patience, and festivals

0:00Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that proves we're all just muddling through as best we can. Today, I'm chatting to Rob DeBank. You're meditating with your eyes closed for the eyes open result. So what it means is, you know, you're meditating twice a day, which is a lovely thing within itself. And that's where the magic's happening. But it's when you open your eyes and you go about your daily life. And then, you know, I used to get so envious of like stupid things like other people's lineups. I'd look at the Boomtown lineup and go, oh, they got Kanye West or they got like this.

0:32And, you know, and now that's all fallen away. I can't think of the last time I got envious or jealous of someone. And so things like that do fall away. It's putting the time in. Rob and I first met when we both had shows on Radio 1, but I didn't see him that often because he was one of the cool DJs, the specialist DJs. So he was on in the evening, whereas I was banging out all the pot pits in the day. So I didn't see him often, but when we did, we'd always have a little catch up and always got on really well. And since we've gone off on these sort of different tangents, which have been, you know, really interesting point of conversation, for both of us and if anything we're much better friends today.

1:07He obviously co-founded Bestival and Camp Bestival which I absolutely love. He and his wife Josie are so clever and they put on the most sensational festival and more recently we've also been working together on the Happy Place app because he's a meditation teacher now as well and his thing is Yoga Nidra which is the most relaxing guided meditation you can do. Again, we talk about how yoga nidra works in this conversation, but essentially it's about meditating to really help our minds and bodies digest stress. I think we're all just so used to being constantly a bit on edge in a sort of low level fight or flight mode.

1:50Oh, I am all the time. I hate it. And we might not even realise that our bodies have the potential to be in a much calmer state. So we talked about all of that, as well as imposter syndrome and the behind the scenes reality of organising huge festivals.

2:25Just the right expert, right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction.

2:58And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. You're invited to spend an evening on Fremont Avenue. For generations, this house has been home to soulful music, good food, and cutthroat card games. Saints and sinners. Unexpected laughs and unspoken truths. Good times. Hard times. And of course, family. Always family. So pull up a chair and join us at Fremont Avenue. A world premiere play only at Arena Stage. Performances start October 8th.

3:40Tickets at arenastage.org. Hey, hate to do this. Could we reschedule? morning hike i was just about to ask the same next week yes it's duncan original blend time staying at home with duncan don't mind if i do the home with duncan is where you want to be one more thing before we get to rob the chiswick house happy place festival is this weekend ah oh my god it's this weekend are you coming i really hope so i'd love to see you there on On Saturday, the 13th of July, this Saturday, there'll be talks from Lisa Snowden, Paul Brunson, Rhiannon Lambert and lots of other people that I really admire. And you will absolutely not want to miss Denise Van Outen doing her DJ set at the end of the day.

4:29Then on Sunday, the 14th, there are talks from Gabby Bernstein, Roxy Nafusi, live music from The Overtones. Obviously loads of gorgeous practices like meditation and yoga and sound healing. And we've also got a live podcast recording with the legend that is Jason Donovan. get your tickets now at happyplaceofficial.co.uk I'll see you there alright this is the show

5:15Hello, Rob DeBank. Hello, Fern Cotton. Pleased to meet you. Nice to meet you. Yeah, how are you? I'm really good. Do you know what I was thinking yesterday? When did we meet? I wouldn't even be able to guess a year.

5:30Mid-2000s, I think. Yeah. Mid-2000s. I'm trying to think, when did I join? Because you were at Radio 1 long before me. Was I? I think. No. Were you? Was I 2008, maybe? Oh, maybe around the same time. I think I joined in 2005. I've tried to erase it from my memory. No, only joking, Radio 1. I loved every minute. I loved it too. No, I think it was about 2005 I joined, maybe. But around that era, we were both at Radio 1. Yeah. But we were sort of not moving in the same circles there even because we had different time slots. we'd sort of see each other at big live events or like weird Radio 1 meetups.

6:16Or the dreaded, and we're off to a bad start. It sounds like being at Radio 1 was like the 12 years I spent there was amazing. One of the best things I've ever done. But the thought of going to the, it was the Christmas party, wasn't it? Christmas party. The Christmas party. We all had to have our photo taken in the analogue days where we all had to stand there arm in arm pretending we all loved each other and me and Annie Nightingale would be off in the corner drinking cocktails kind of trying to get through it. But yeah, it was probably one of those. Yes, without a doubt. They were very strict.

6:47I mean, I hate all Christmas parties, so that one I didn't particularly love going to at all. Yeah, I'm not into them at all. But I'm interested to know, because I don't know, what led you to Radio 1 in the first place and to your love of music and electronica. All I've sort of seen online and what I know of your past in a sort of musical tense is that you played the trombone. Yeah, my dad will be pleased that you got that in. Yeah, yeah, I played the trombone in my dad's brass band. That was the start of it all. It was, yeah. I had quite a sort of traditional upbringing, you know, brass bands and, you know, village carnivals and stuff like that.

7:25But then somehow I discovered John Peel on the radio and started thinking maybe something in music. But, I mean, the whole radio, one thing was totally accidental. So I started a club in London. It got quite well known. It was called Sunday Best, which went on to become Best of All. And one day I got a call from Radio 1 saying, yeah, it must have been on an answer phone on a landline, you know, well before mobile phones going, would you like to come and do a pilot for Radio 1? So I absolutely pooed myself for about three weeks, went and did a pilot, thought that was the most embarrassing, worst thing ever.

8:02And then, yes, we'd love you to start next month on Radio 1. And so, yeah, and I've got the kind of chill out show. So that was my start. And then it was pure imposter syndrome from that moment onwards. Looking over my shoulder, I'm going to get kicked out any minute. God, there's so many better DJs in here. But how weird that so many of us felt like that. Having spoken to like, even Annie Mack's been on this podcast, but speaking to a lot of the DJs since leaving, most people feel like that because it's such a strange, the actual working environment is really insular. You're pretty much on your own, maybe one producer, maybe two.

8:34and you just live in that little bubble and turn up, do your show and leave. So the sort of cross-pollination of what you know about other people and their shows is really minimal. So you all end up thinking everyone else is better, everyone else is nailing it more. So I had the biggest imposter syndrome, probably until the day I left, I'd say. It's bizarre. Yeah, I'm not really like that. I'm shy but confident and I felt totally confident doing it. but equally it was like wow at some point they're gonna sort of uh discover discover who i am and it took 12 years yeah i'm a secret trombone player from from a small village but um but yeah it was you know it's the best time i mean i'm sure a lot of your listeners won't really necessarily be in the era of you know john peele and charles peterson and marianne hobbs and annie nightingale um and yeah so going into those christmas parties although it was sort of like And it's like, wow, Chris Moyles and Vernon Kay and Sarah Cox and you guys, you know, the big sort of headline stars.

9:34And then there was the sort of cool underground. You were the cool guys. We were the cool guys. You really were. Yeah, with salary to match. Very cool salary. The cool salary. Oh, bless Annie Nightingale. I sort of can't believe that she's not here anymore. No, it's, yeah, it's really sad. I mean, Annie was one of the real people that took me under her wing when I started at Radio 1 because I was absolutely terrified and thought, didn't know how any of the knobs and dials work. Didn't realize that being a Radio 1 DJ, you don't just sit there kind of occasionally opening your mouth. You have to do everything.

10:09Everything is terrifying. Or at least you did in those days. And it was pre-digital. So you're starting up records, which then, you know, there's fluff on the needle and the needle goes. And you're trying to talk at the same time. You're trying to put the needle back on the record. it's at the wrong speed it's and and then you know Annie Nottingale was like don't worry about it Rob just you know just talk to the listeners pretend you're down the pub with them John Peel was the same they were amazing kind of mentors there. Yeah Annie Nottingale's autobiography is so worth a read if anyone listening to this hasn't read it it's such I mean her career and her story just spans decades and different genres and all these amazing cultural transitions she was just incredible so so let's talk about um moving from doing your club night in london to then having a festival and multiple festivals you know as you know i love coming to camp festival me and my kids absolutely adore it it's the best day out big up dorset oh big up dorset and you guys have managed to create this beautiful atmosphere where every member of the family it has something to do and they're stimulated and excited it's just I'm in awe of it you know running the happy place festival which is a teeny teeny little festival in comparison I walk around going how have you done this it's so huge and obviously before camp festival you had best of all so what made you choose that very stressful decision of starting your own festival um I mean you'll see a theme throughout this time that we that we're together that is like happy accidents so um me and Josie and some friends were in the pub we'd been doing kind of stages at glastonbury glastonbury had asked us to host the radio one stage we'd got like fat boy slim and basement jacks and some other lunatics at that time um we and we sort of started this dressing up thing just as a as a joke just to try and add some color to the stage we had like lilos and giant block crocodiles and stuff which sounds off now now in the days of steve aoki and birthday cakes and you know it's all the rage but back then no one was really doing that and djs were just like boring guys sort of mixing two records but we so we kind of gave it some life and Glastonbury loved it, Radio 1 loved it and then we just thought hold on we could kind of do this ourselves so we we've trotted on down to the Isle of Wight found a beautiful spot down there and and six months later we're we're opening the gates to to the first festival so.

12:28Wow more stressful than you'd anticipated? Yes possibly the most grey hair inducing experience in my life so yeah it was it was mad you know it's like me and Josie a couple of mates and then we you know pulled in all our mates so Josie was running the bar she she had her own bar in East London so she was like right I'll do the bars I was like well I'll obviously do the music our friends were we'll do the tickets and we'll do the you know the marketing or whatever um within hours of us opening you know we realized we hadn't got anywhere near enough security I was stopping people rolling burning toilet rolls into the woods trying to set those on fire okay um david ike was in the woods on a sort of experimental um illegal sound system kind of doing a lecture in there i was having to sort of turn that off there were you know bands turning up like robbie get up here get up there you know i think maybe mobile phones were around but i mean this really dates me but you know it was not um the land of high technology yeah we probably had of walkie-talkie and it was like running around trying to do everything and um yeah proper baptism of fire but but but then you know there's only 4 000 people at the first one which sounds like a tiny amount but when I stood there and Basement Jacks came on who were just getting really massive I just thought this is like the best thing in the world I could not believe it looked like a sea of people it looked like main stage glasto yes but it was about 3 000 people that's incredible though and now you know camp festival is a monster you've got so many people that what is the capacity now 20 um so door sits 30 and then we've launched the second one in shropshire so that's that's about 20 at the moment yeah um so how the stress levels for that you know because to do something of that size an operation like that you've got to be good at managing stress you've got to be good at delegation that's something i find incredibly challenging you've got to be really good with thinking on your feet and being really flexible because nothing goes to plan like on a tiny level again we only have 3 000 people a day at our festivals over the course of two days so 6 000 per festival last year we had 70 mile per hour winds and a yellow weather warning on the saturday i thought i was going to combust i remember it i was stood on the stage oh yeah you were there you were dj i was supposed to be dj it was literally like what and actually the thing that stressed me out the most was my mum getting stressed and i was like why is she getting stressed She's not even organising it or doing it.

14:51But her stress was making me feel stressed. And I was like, oh, my God, you're out of control because there's so many elements. There are variables on the day that you have no control over. So you've got to be good. Are you naturally good at dealing with that stuff? Yes. Weirdly. Yeah, I don't know why that is. I am good at delegating. So on some of your points, it is really good to delegate. Yeah. Probably my team, if any of them are listening to your esteemed podcast, are probably going, I'm going, yeah, he loves delegating because I literally get an email, bat it off to someone, get an email.

15:23I'm very good at sort of doing that. But I think people know that's what I do. But, yeah, it's not very helpful if you've got a team of people that are like, oh, there's really big wins coming. No, luckily our Happy Place team were like extremely cool cucumbers. Yeah. Love that. You need a good team. And that really is what Bestival was. That's what Camp Bestival is. It's, you know, an amazing team of people, a tiny team. there's six of us full time on camp festival but then that expands to you know as you know thousands of hundreds thousands of people during the actual festival so in the heyday of best of all you know we were 60 ,000 capacity and we probably had about five to eight thousand people working with us on the festival so massive um massive operation but once everyone kind of gets into doing their job they know what they're doing then um it all flows like clockwork so brilliant do you actually get time during the weekends to sit back and go I'm really enjoying this um probably more so at camp festival I mean best of all if anyone remembers that festival you know it was it was like 24 hour party people it was like non-stop it was running from the morning till four five in the morning they probably get in bed have a couple of hours sleep and then it would be starting up again so that that was pretty punishing and I think that's one of the reasons why we why we stopped doing best of all because it was just like wow yeah can't sustain this um but yeah camp is what i love about camp is that by midnight one in the morning things are running till two some silent discos and stuff but by one in the morning pretty much everyone's in bed yeah everyone's knackered the kids have had an amazing day um weirdly you'd think it would be a campsite of tents full of screaming kids and you know noisy campsite in the night but they're knackered they're knackered that you know it's silence so um and then it all starts going at nine in the morning so it's for old older people like me it's it's great it's like middle-aged uh middle-aged festivaling that's where we're at we've we've tailored our careers to just suit where we're at and i like that it's needed well i've got kids going off to um board masters and reading and you know all those things and i'm just like yeah yeah we've been there and we've done it yeah we've been there and we've done it we've got the t-shirt i need to do it again so what i'm really interested in as well is that it's not necessarily a full-on pivot for you because you've still got one foot heavily in the music scene in multiple ways but you have had this pivot where meditation wellness sauna culture all the things I want to talk to you about have become a huge portion of who you are outside of work but also what you're doing in your career as well and we're really lucky that we get to have you on the happy place app so for anyone listening that doesn't know what the app's about We've got all sorts on there, breathwork, meditation, yoga, ASMR, a whole host of things.

18:10And you provide yoga nidra for us. So first of all, let's establish what that is for anyone that hasn't heard of it. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yoga nidra is kind of a guided meditation, if you will. So it's very based in the ancient Vedic tradition coming from India of yoga. and some people will think of yoga and think of Lululemon leggings and sort of asana physical yoga, but this is more the whole union of mental and physical yoga. And so Yoga Nidra has got nothing to do with being on the mat and bending and stretching. It's all in the mind, but it's essentially just a guided meditation. So Nidra will lead you through kind of different chapters.

18:56So there'll be some visualization in there. there'll be some breathing there'll be um a rotation of consciousness where i name a body part and you take your attention there and within within this sort of 20 to 30 minute um time frame you get taken into this very very deep um other other state it's it's quite hard to describe without actually doing it um so get on the happy place app and try one out so it's game changing do you know what i discovered yoga nidra specifically when i was pregnant with my son who's 11 and I was feeling so fatigued in the day and I was still working so I would I can't remember who it was I think it might have even been Sefer who's also on the app who said to me have you tried yoga nidra and again I assume like you say it was a physical practice and I was like I'm not moving and it's not and it's this I don't know where I first listened to it but these guided meditations that I listened to that as you say go through all of these different physical parts of your body I would go into the deepest sleep like this nap for about an hour and come out the other side feeling absolutely fine like having been on my knees like just feeling rubbish to feeling like I could continue with the rest of the day if it was in the middle of the day or I could get a really deep sleep afterwards it's so amazing how it how it takes you to that place what's going on in the body and the mind when we're in that sort of state how do we how is the meditation taking us there yeah so you're going from and i always get this wrong but i think you're going from your b to fight or flight state into an alpha state um and you're going down in in sort of states of consciousness um and go yeah going back to your sort of rest and digest you know tapping into your parasympathetic system um and all that sort of yeah the stress stuff is is disappearing as you as you kind of float down within yourself and that's what's so clever about it because these sort of little exercises that you do in it all will take you deeper and deeper and you're totally conscious and aware so you can kind of hear whoever's voice is that's guiding you and you you know you're awake and you occasionally get a little um reminder saying you're you're awake you're not you're in yoga nidra you're not asleep um but yeah it's just it's just amazing and i think it's scientifically it's like 20 minutes of of nidra can can make you feel like you've had three hours sleep yeah yeah um but like like you described so it's yeah it's so clever because why i think we should all if we can give these practices a go is because it's become so normal for us to be in fight or flight that has been totally normalized that we're we're stressed out most of the time that we're running on adrenaline that we just run from one stressful situation to the next in the day and we're all we're all in that cycle i mean on varying degrees depending on whereabouts you live if you're in a city versus maybe a rural area or what your job is or what your family setup is but for the majority of us we're in fight and flight way more than we should be so these practices just give us a little chance to go i'm just going to step out of that for a bit how did you discover this world of because this is a whole new training that you've gone down and i know your wife's trained to be a yoga teacher like this for you guys is not only to help your own stress levels but this is all something you're deeply passionate about teaching so what led you from electronica music creating big festivals to now studying meditation um yeah I mean it wasn't like I suddenly sat down and was like wow I need to do something for myself it me and Josie learned transcendental meditation about 25 even yeah 25 years ago um so we we had learned that but I think I've always led this sort of super hedonistic lifestyle balanced with a super kind of wellness lifestyle or whatever it was called back then so yeah I'd be out raving and then I'd still be meditating and then gradually the raving subsided and the meditation kind of levels went up which was a necessary thing and yeah I think I hit some sort of I had some sort of crazy sort of episode at one of the festivals I remember watching the Chemical Brothers and and I was running the festival and just feeling very very odd and I kind of went into this um it wasn't a breakdown as such but I think mentally I was just overloaded and I went to see a CBT um therapist afterwards and she was like you're imagine you're like a sort of vessel you you are just overflowing and I just kind of overcooked myself not not with drugs and alcohol it was it was just work I was just like totally burnt out and at that point so that was maybe 10 years ago at that point i was like okay better slow down on that side of things better ramp this side up and so i already had that that grounding meditation already sort of knew a bit about breath work went to live by the sea started getting into cold water swimming so it's it's the kind of cliched thing but i think yeah if you look at yoga teachers meditation teachers it's no accident that most of them have come from a place of needing it rather than just going oh I might be a yoga teacher that's that's a great idea it's like I need to be a yoga teacher I need to teach meditation it's something you you kind of yeah and burnout will take you there and again I think burnout is something that none of us retake seriously enough we don't take it seriously until we're in it we don't ever look and think oh I'm probably headed towards that the rate I'm going and again we're all trying to do way too much whether it's work or social commitments or juggling that with family or just the bombardment we have constantly on our phones and our laptops of information, communication.

24:35We feel we have to get back to people constantly. And I think looking at burnout is so important and also understanding when you're at it, because it's not just physical. You've got the physical burnout. You've got the mental burnout. You've got the emotional burnout and you've got however you want to label this, spiritual burnout. like your connection to whatever it is. I didn't even realise there were four burnouts. Yeah. Now I'm really fearful. I think it's the four that create the big one where you have hit it. Do you know what I mean? I think all four components take you to your knees and you're like, I'm out of kilter here.

25:10And it's certainly why I had a big career pivot and do everything I'm doing because I was absolutely at that place. Probably the mental burnout bit being the biggest sign for me, the biggest red flag of I am just not happy with where I'm at and what I'm doing and what my belief system is and how this industry works and all of it just sort of yeah fell away and I think you do naturally then start to look for things that feel better and obviously you already had that grounding in knowing that meditation worked for you so this was the next level up learning how to get other people on board with it yeah yeah I mean like you say you know we weren't designed to um live this crazy 21st century lifestyle you know you wake up the phone's going off the you know get the kids school do this or you know whatever your family situation is and then just bombarded with this constant typewriter chitter chatter in your brain of just like you must do this you must do that and and we all get sort of sucked into it and people might look at you or me and think oh yeah they've been living some amazing lifestyle but actually everyone's going through it whether whatever level whatever level you're on and my you know my meditation teacher always you know said think back 12 15 000 years ago to this sounds a bit weird but the hunter gatherer um tribes you know you'd live in a little tribe you would have your purpose because you you knew where you were within that group of like 20 or 30 people you might meet like two three hundred people in your life or maybe a thousand absolute max walking down your high street you'll probably meet like 200 people or see a thousand people within 10 minutes it's just it's not what how we were built and so it's no surprise when we get into um overflow situation and that and that kind of burnout and we've got it on our phone so not only like are we seeing that many people on the school run at work on the tube on the bus whatever it might be but then you're choosing to imbibe more information about other people's lives we don't even know and we're taking all of that on i think we don't we don't take that seriously enough either like there's um a brilliant lady that came on this podcast called melissa urban who's all about boundaries and she calls it especially when we're looking at phones energy leakage so we don't realize that when we're just scrolling and scrolling and looking at all this stuff that we're just expelling so much energy judging other people or trying to put ourselves into some sort of hierarchy based on what other people are doing if they're what their moral compasses or just whatever it might be it's all expelling energy and then we wonder why we're constantly knackered constantly fatigued yet can't sleep yeah yet can't sleep so we're knackered in the day yet can't sleep at night i think that seems to be this new normal we're in and if we're not careful that's just gonna get worse and worse and worse and And I'm really interested in talking about meditation in this way, because I think, again, you know, we can read all the wellness books or look on wellness websites.

28:09And it's very like, do yoga, do meditation, eat like this. And it's all it all seems quite surface. But actually, when we really root down and look at how these things can help us, they can be game changing, absolutely game changing. But the one thing we have to do, I guess, is have an element of discipline, because your practice is very disciplined, I believe. what are you meditating twice a day yeah so is it what 20 minutes 20 minutes yeah end of each day 20 minutes yeah and just to point out you've also got four sons so it's not like you've not got a lot going on at home but this is a commitment that you've made yeah and you and that when i teach meditation one of the main things over the three days that you learn is is how to bed that into your lifestyle and that's that's the main thing that well there's two things that people come with robbie you're never going to be able to teach me to meditate because my mind is just too busy i'm like you know I've got the busiest mind in the in the country and you know but that that that is you know that's easily that's easily solved and the second thing is how am I going to fit it into my day you know I work nine to five I've got and then I'm straight into dinner time and this and that and it's like yeah but you've got time to watch half an hour of Netflix or you've got time to scroll on your phone and I'm not judging on phones I'm on Instagram I look at Instagram I watch Netflix you know I drink coffee I used to drink alcohol until very recently so I none of those things are bad I don't sort of judge on those but you can make that time and making that time twice a day is a total game changer all that stuff that you're talking about you know imagine your brain is filling up filling up filling up or you're that vessel that's filling up through meditating twice a day or you know or as often as you can and that starts to come down and essentially there's many great things that come out of meditation but one of them is digesting stress and that's one of the biggest things and you might find when you when you first learn that you're you're actually slumped over when you're meditating because you're so exhausted you've got this deep fatigue in in you that you didn't even know and it's such a nice feeling because you're suddenly releasing all of that you know deep deep rooted fatigue and stress so yeah it's um i'd say out of all the wellness things and it's not like i've tried every single thing but you know there's breath work there's yoga there's everything you know meditation if you're if you're feeling overwhelmed i do i do believe that that is the one that you should try and pick up hi this is nox from the podcast with nox and jamie and maybe like us at the podcast you also know people who have been smokers or vapors and zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about because there are many good reasons to make a change to zen nicotine pouches Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction.

30:49And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tight and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert.

31:28That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. Hey, hate to do this. Could we resketch our morning hike? I was just about to ask the same. Next week? Yes, it's Dunkin' Original Blend Time. Staying at home with Dunkin'? Don't mind if I do. The home with Dunkin' is where you want to be. Dr. India Woods here. As a veterinarian, I demand a lot of my scrubs on the job. That's why I show up in FIGS. FIGS are made for the sometimes crazy situations I find myself in. It doesn't matter if I have to squat, sit, bend, or even chase after one of my patients. FIGS moves with me and keeps me comfortable in the highest pressure situations.

32:08FIGS gives me one less thing to worry about. Get 15 % off your first order by visiting wearfigs.com and use code FIGSRX at checkout. That's wearfigs.com, code FIGSRX. So let's talk about this concept of, you know, and I've thought it myself when I first started meditating many, many years ago. And I'm on and off the bandwagon constantly, like I'm not disciplined. I'm really disciplined in other areas. meditation I sometimes still will use when I think I'm reaching overwhelm so maybe I'll meditate twice a week like at the moment and then I'll have a period where I will do it every day or I'll do a course so I'm like really on track but I know I'm interested in talking to you today because I know I'll go away later on and think I'm going to start doing this every day again I need those constant prompts but when I first was introduced to it in my late teens I was that person who was like well I can't empty all the thoughts out of my head but that's actually not what we're trying to do here is it how would you if someone came to you and said I can't I can't do it I've still got so many thoughts and things going on in my brain when I'm sat there what would you say to them yeah well I mean first you need to choose your technique so without getting too deep into it you know some of mantra techniques so you're using a word or a sound that you're following so that takes you away from those distracting thoughts is that transcendental um that is the root of transcendental yeah um and the technique i teach which is one giant mind is is very similar so yeah it's a mantra based technique there's other ones like you know staring at a candle or or an object there's staring into a loved one's eyes and holding hands and you know there's so many different types of meditation i mean you know even things like surfing or tennis could be seen as meditation so there's obviously traditional meditation and there's other things that get you in into a meditative state but if you yeah if you want to learn to choose a technique that's you know quite quite simple and effortless and the one that i teach um you know and and transcendental is is is quite a simple one to learn and and through that that just you know takes you into that space where you you do you do it's not like you um if you imagine you're stood on a on a train platform you're you you become the witness of your thoughts rather than getting caught up in them so you see your thoughts going past like trains some of them are very fast speedy thoughts like what am i having for tea what time are the kids getting home oh i wish i'd not sat in this chair it's a bit uncomfortable other than longer sort of trains going past like oh god i really didn't like frank at work and it's really stressing me out frank sorry frank frank's such an awesome yeah so you know the frank situation is ongoing and so you're you're seeing your thoughts but all the all the um different techniques of meditation are about increasing your awareness your consciousness and and so you become very aware of that's just a thought that's a that's a negative you know jealousy envy you know all those things start to fade away and you and you you suddenly you're like three months later you'll be like actually frank at work he's not such a bad guy i was just sort of putting something on him that wasn't actually true so by by sticking with it within a couple of weeks you'll start to notice some differences in how how you're so much more aware of how you're feeling and you can actually detach yourself from your thoughts and you you realize that you know the mind is a thinking machine so it's going to think constantly if you're not doing anything with it but when you're meditating you're kind of becoming aware of those thoughts and you're you're sort of falling below them imagine the surface of the sea is all your all your thoughts and through meditating you're diving down in your little meditation submarine you're going down deeper deeper and then you get to the seabed and that's where the transcendental name comes from because you're transcending through your thoughts you're transcending through all of that and getting into that deep lovely space that you you will know from meditating and sometimes you only get that for like two seconds you know you might do a 20 minute meditation you're not sat there for 20 minutes in this blissful euphoric state you know maybe some monks have been sat in a cave for 30 years might be but it's it's not really like that you sort of come in and out of it so you have thoughts and you get back into your mantra you dive down again then some thoughts come in and you gently come back to your mantra and then you get to that point of transcendence which is just pure bliss and that's where the magic happens yeah it's incredible and like you say what it's actually doing outside of your practice is cultivating awareness because all the problems we get into whether it's with other people or circumstance is because we're reacting off the mark we're not having that moment that pause to step back and go oh this is what I'm even thinking or this is this is why I'm feeling this way we're just reacting to everything very quickly yeah and actually meditation outside of the practice helps you to have that pause to go to see the thing for what it is and go oh that's why this is happening that's why I'm feeling this rather than being sort of lost in it I think we all have those moments I can be a real hothead and be so lost in a circumstance and a feeling or a thought but if I can take that step back and that pause that's where you get the moment to see everything with a bit more clarity I think exactly yeah again without getting too technical that's employing your witness so you're you're witnessing and this is so you're you're meditating with your eyes closed for the eyes open results and so what it means is you know you're you're meditating twice a day which is a which is a lovely thing within itself and that's where the magic's happening but it's when you open your eyes and you go about your daily life and then you have your frank moment and you're like well actually hold on is frank such a wally like you know actually he's an all right guy or you know that that relationship there will start to make sense or you'll start to get less you know I used to get so envious of like stupid things like other people's lineups I'd look at Boomtown lineup or the Big Chill lineup and go oh they got Kanye West or they got like this and I you know months of feeling like so wound up about it you know being quite competitive and and and now that's all fallen away I can't think of the last time I got envious or jealous of someone which is such a it's quite weird for me still you know because five years ago especially 10 years ago I'd have been very like competitive envious jealous and so things like that do fall away um yeah it's putting the time in putting the practice yeah but that couldn't be a better reason to start meditating to for those feelings that none of us like feeling whether it's anger envy jealousy spite all of those things for those to go that's a gift i mean not only are you are we all wasting energy getting into arguments or even just internal arguments in our head because of those feelings yeah it's just it just feels shit it's just not very nice so to know that that it is possible no matter who you are what your background what your upbringing has been so know that meditation can help that stuff fall away yeah that's huge that's huge yeah those sort of negative mind loops you know that that we all have of like that are oh it's a really bad situation really bad situation you know it can ruin your sleep it can ruin it can last for for months can't it you can be thinking about one thing and then you find out that actually you've got totally the wrong end of the stick and you've just wasted three months of of your energy on that um i mean yeah again my my meditation teacher has this analogy of of a toothbrush which is a little odd dental dental hygiene hit me go on so yeah i mean the one he uses and i did look this up to check if it's true and i think it is but you know 150 200 years ago toothbrushes didn't really exist i'm not sure toothpaste did um possibly people were using like little sticks to clean their teeth but you know overnight when they invented dental hygiene and people were suddenly um you know suddenly the the amount of people that were dying because i think you know people it would be like one of the main causes of death in victorian london um after plague and stuff it would be like you know things going wrong with your mouth because you didn't have a toothbrush and a toothpaste and so suddenly that was totally um reinvented and it's a bit like that like why we want to brush our teeth twice a day or sometimes three or four times a day um you know we can't go to bed without doing that and meditation for me is like that i i get up in the morning i brush my teeth i have a cold shower oh aren't i good boy and then um and then i and then i will meditate and it's part of my daily routine like brushing my teeth and i do do think you know in hundreds of years time or 50 years time people will look back and go how could they think they could survive that onslaught of 21st century life without cleaning their minds and that's what we're doing through through meditating is is is cleaning our minds essentially and digesting that stress and bringing ourselves back into the day as a new with a new mind with a new clean mind and this isn't a new concept this has been around for thousands of years we're just I think we've regressed in so many ways in terms of how we're looking after or how we're not looking after ourselves and I guess also culturally what we're having to go against the grain with is this celebration of busyness is that we constantly will all be sort of boasting about how busy we are or how absolutely wrecked we are with tiredness and to admit that you've actually given yourself a chance to stop feels completely wrong we'd never go oh yeah I've just been chilling out today we don't like to say that and I think we have to go against the grain and go it's okay not to be busy you know I know in my own life if I get a day off work I've not got to record anything or I'm up to date with all my editing on books or whatever, I feel really uncomfortable thinking about doing nothing.

41:56I feel guilt come in. I think about my mum having three jobs when I was growing up. And I think, how can I choose to not do anything or choose to just lie about or whatever? And I think we're all in that sort of cycle of feeling quite guilty rather than this is helping me out. And therefore I'm then a better person to be around for my family, for my work colleagues. it's sort of helping everyone but we're in such a mess with how much we celebrate busyness yeah and I think it is changing a bit I mean I you know again your listeners are probably younger than Margaret Thatcher's uh sort of age group but like um well obviously than the age group but they might not even remember have heard of her but you know she she used to I've only had four hours sleep and I'm like and we all you know people would be like yes right four hours sleep that's the way forward and it's yeah it you know if you look at um things like um you know where people live for the longest that you know parts of japan or sicily or wherever it is that you know they're they're getting plenty of sleep they're eating well they're resting they're having big community things they're meditating possibly or doing some sort of mindfulness activities and that's where and so if we look up for a minute and go hold on a sec do i want to live to 80 90 100 that's i need to really start maybe um accepting that but you know i'm i'm still i'm just i still get sucked into that i might have i might have meditated in the morning but i'll still be like right yeah millions of emails do this do that and i and i thrive off being busy as well but um i suppose it's just trying to find that balance yeah i think the balance is key isn't it it's um it's essential and you touched on this earlier but you moved to the isle of wight how long ago now about 10 years ago i'm really bad at timings as you'll see you made this move that was part of your decision making to sort of have a life that was a little less stressful and fast paced would you say uh yeah i mean we were doing best of all on the isle of wight yeah so obviously that helped that we spent a lot of time there um we i think we just had our third um kid um slash son yeah and which didn't really make much difference it's just that our postage size garden in in London was sort of getting a bit outgrown.

44:09And so, yeah, having a bit of space, being by the sea. I grew up by the sea. I really miss not being by the sea. I know you were a bit of a... I love being by the sea. Yeah. But this is it. If anyone follows you on Instagram, they will have seen you on multiple occasions, even on the coldest day of the year, the middle of January, you'll be in the sea, just loving that cold water. What has that brought to your life?

44:35Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. nicotine is an addictive chemical.

45:34Post a job for free and get started today. Dr. India Woods here. As a veterinarian, I demand a lot of my scrubs on the job. That's why I show up in FIGS. FIGS are made for the sometimes crazy situations I find myself in. It doesn't matter if I have to squat, sit, bend, or even chase after one of my patients. FIGS moves with me and keeps me comfortable in the highest pressure situations. FIGS gives me one less thing to worry about. Get 15 % off your first order by visiting wearfigs.com and use code FIGSRX at checkout. That's wearfigs.com, code FIGSRX.

46:11Well, again, yeah, I mean, it's a daily practice, which I'm lucky enough to live literally right next to the sea. So I've got no excuse really. Yeah, you have to get in. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I would be doing cold showers or whatever if not. But, yeah, you know, I'll get stressed like anyone. I might be a meditation teacher. I might look like I'm living some sort of wellness lifestyle, but I get stressed like just like everyone else. And, yeah, you know, as soon as I get into the water, then I just notice that everything changes. And I'm not some kind of Wim Hof Ice Warrior where I'll be in there for like 30 minutes or whatever.

46:46you know two minutes is fine for me and actually Wim says um you know two minutes is actually a totally ample amount of time to expose your body to that cold and don't please don't ask me some tricky scientific question about I haven't got anything of the sort lined up but yeah I mean you know it does it does magical things to to your to your body and mind and um you know resets you so a bit like yeah you know meditating you you come out feeling like you've just been unwrapped You feel fresh and ready to go again. So, yeah, it's a real game changer. But that also combined with sauna culture, this is something that you've recently got bang into.

47:25You've even got your own, what's it called, this sauna? Slow something? Slow motion sauna. Slow motion sauna. Tell us about this. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm a bit of a Johnny-come-lately on the old sauna front, maybe. I've, you know, obviously had saunas for life, but never really sort of realized how big the wave was that was coming in the UK. And obviously anyone who's got Finnish origins or Scandinavian origins or Russian or whatever, they'll be listening going, you know, Matt, we've been doing this for like eons. But, you know, even in Ireland or Scotland, they've been, you know, sitting in stone built sort of caves and getting hot and realizing the benefits of it.

48:08So, yeah, I bought a sauna randomly in June last year. I didn't really have the money. My mate said, I'm buying two. If we get a third one, everyone's going to save. And I said to Josie and she was like, well, I don't really get it. But, yeah, let's go for it. And six months, seven months later, it's like, whoa, I'm just like a sauna nerd, sauna ball. And part of this huge explosion of mobile pop-up saunas and sauna culture that's happening in the UK. you've just done a pop-up in London so how did that go? people seem to receive that well yeah it was sold out on the first day it's huge I mean again if you're listening and maybe you're thinking oh I might try meditation or you know try saunas as well because actually they are transformative you know sitting in the sauna my 13 year old son Miller who because when the sauna's not going around the Isle of Wight or London or wherever it is we have it on the drive and we fire it up and it's become a bit of a family thing.

49:08And we're not some cute family where us and the four kids are like, oh, yeah, let's go and do a day trip here. Or, you know, we argue and fight like any family. And I was surprised that suddenly we're sat in the sauna with like two, three or four kids and everyone's like getting on and having a lovely time, sweating away together. Love it. And the 13-year-old turned around and he said, Dad, what I love about this is that I'm not thinking. And I realised that that's really true. And so I probably like meditating where you're not thinking or you shouldn't be. If you're doing it right, then, you know, in the sauna as well, you're not really thinking.

49:42You can't be on your phone in there. It's this escape, this lovely escape. And I think, you know, in Finland, Saturday night is family sauna night. You know, they're not all sat around the Gogglebox watching. Gogglebox. Gogglebox. they are you know they're in the sauna together and it's it's this amazing wonderful sort of family thing or friends thing and you just sit in there for an hour and it feels like you you kind of escape so it's um yeah I've become quite addicted to it yeah my brother's banging to saunas he's absolutely obsessed by them he's I think he finds that same level of total peace when he's in there and also just understanding how good it is for you physically but also um recently I went down to Richie Norton's place.

50:28Richie, who we absolutely love. Richie's at the Happy Place Festival most years. I think he's done stuff with you, is he as well? Yeah, yeah, he does camp most years, yeah. And he's done bits at Glastonbury. He's an amazing yoga teacher, breathwork teacher. He does a bit of everything, but he really knows what he's doing. He runs beautiful retreats as well. And I went down to his place. I've never been on a retreat, which is perhaps surprising, but I've never been on one so I went to a day retreat this is the closest I've ever been to going on a retreat probably for all the reasons I've just explained I'm too busy I can't go on a retreat I haven't got four days to go on a retreat but I went down to his place for a day and a lot of it was based around breathing but also dealing with sort of high temperatures and very cold temperatures so we would do sauna cold water sauna again and and really what I came away with was the understanding that when you're in a sauna for almost an uncomfortable amount of time when you think oh I want to get out now I'm just I'm too hot and I just can't cope with it that for your mind is and similarly with very cold water such a brilliant practice to go I can cope with this I just need to calm calm myself down and get these thoughts in a row rather than going because I can go into panic very quickly and just know that you're safe and know that you're okay and everything starts to slow down but actually i think again when you look at like we were looking at meditation outside of the practice looking at this sort of heat or very cold thing outside of the practice is the ability to deal with stress a lot better because you're having to deal with it in quite a physical way in the heat or or in the cold totally yeah and i i you know because i've only been doing it regularly for you know less than a year and that feeling when you've been in there for 10 minutes and it's 80 degrees or 85 degrees and you're starting to get this real panic on like going yeah I have to get out have to get out have to cool down have to cool down and you you don't fight through that but you kind of get through it and you never sit in there for for too long and then you're out and you're like oh dear I've got to get in the ice bath and then like two minutes into the ice bath you're like got to get out got to get out got to get out yeah I've got to get back in the heat and and that that becomes quite addictive but yeah like you say it's it's building up your um stress response um really amazingly also you're you're you'll start realizing um that you can walk around in the in the winter with in a t-shirt rather than um with loads of jumpers and coats on you you know you we we spend far too much time sitting in you know central heated rooms um you know with loads of jumpers on and cozy you know cafes and stuff when actually you know we were built to kind of be outside a bit more so even even on that level But there's so many, so many amazing benefits of sauna.

53:14I wonder if also I'm sort of thinking on my feet here, but I think it probably helps with another problem that we've got in the modern age, which is a huge lack of patience. Because like you're saying there, when you're in extreme heat or extreme cold, your first thought is, well, I don't want this. I want to get out and I can. So I'm going to do it rather than persevering. And I think so much of our lives these days revolves around that. I'm hungry. I want something now. I'm going to get a very quick fast food delivery or whatever it might be. Or I don't like this TV show or I don't like these adverts.

53:46I'll fast forward them. We have such convenience in terms of just getting through stuff we don't want to have to deal with and just going, nope, or I don't want to queue. I'm not going to stand waiting. Whereas back in the 80s, we had to queue for everything or, you know, even to buy music, you'd be waiting outside a shop to get it. Now you click your phone and it's there. so I think one of our big problems is patience is just dwindling by the second and if you look at any of these practices whether it's breath work meditation these exposure to hot or cold you're having to cultivate patience because you're sitting through the discomfort of something you don't necessarily want to do that is very perceptive miss cotton I like that I'm going to use that you should do podcasts it must be something I think it must help with that no it totally does i went to um there's a there's a banyolite which is a sort of russian um russian style of sauna in uh in in london and the guy there andre you know he said to me don't don't rush from the um sauna into the ice you know um and then back into the sauna and back into the ice because that's our natural instincts like right okay i can do this yeah i'm having i'm really getting really hot i'm getting really cold brilliant but he said the the magic actually happens in the sort of 20 minutes where you sit outside or just sit there and just have a cup of tea in between and actually I went for a three-hour session with him and I thought how am I going to last three hours we only went in the sauna twice for like 20 minutes at a time the rest of the time was sitting around drinking tea relaxing it was it was literally one of the most relaxing things I've ever done so wow yeah but when are we told to do something slowly never never no it's constantly like why have you not emailed me back why is this person not texting me they must have died like we're everything has to be so quick I don't remember the last time someone said to me really take your time with this I don't I can't remember a time if everything I'm constantly too slow with everything even though I feel like I'm racing through the day no one ever says to us just do this one thing real slow we could benefit from that do you think do you think that's changing though do you think can you see any no I think in tiny ways but I think the problem is so big now and so global that we've really got to keep talking about this stuff and like looking to what's i can't think of the author there's that beautiful book things you notice when you slow down or like there's a great book i've got in here actually by erling kagger called silence which is all about stillness and quiet and slowness but we don't celebrate slowness so we certainly don't tell anyone like your friend did to do something very slowly it's such an alien concept that I think we need to just take heed of I'm saying it for myself more than anyone like I need to maybe move through even just today at a slower pace I'm just thinking about the rest of my day thinking how can I do that slightly slower well you've got to drive to Scotland so yeah You need to be quick.

56:43With mum Sue sat in your kitchen. With your lovely mum Sue. No, I think it's really important and the way the world's going and how our concentration spans are just totally obliterated by all this like fast content. I think the more we can celebrate slowness and look at activities that help us cultivate that, the better. No, and you're totally right. And the trouble is it sort of leaches into our kids, doesn't it? Yeah. They see mum and dad, or whoever it is, rushing around, never a minute to sit down. And they think that's the way. So, yeah, I'm behind your plan. Let's go slow. Yeah, let's do it.

57:23This is the slow revolution, guys. It's the super snail speed revolution. Rob, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you for all of your brilliant Yoga Nidra contribution on the Happy Place app. We absolutely love having you as part of the family. And keep doing what you're doing. Thank you so much for having us. Very, very esteemed to be here. I'll tell you what, I've become completely obsessed with this idea of slowness since I had that chat with Rob. Because I am Speedy Gonzales. I rush everything. I race. And I'm like, what am I doing? Chatting to Rob has made me, and also talking about Georgia Tortoise, has made me think, I just need to slow the heck down.

58:05Do head to Happy Place Official on Instagram for loads more lovely slow stuff this week. In fact, Rob and his wife Josie run Slow Motion Wellness. It's a site with luxury accommodation for cold water therapy retreats, meditation workshops and yoga. So do go check it out. They're doing beautiful things. And you might have noticed there's another little episode in your feed today. We talked about the fact that Rob has a load of really gorgeous yoga nidras on the Happy Place app. And we really wanted to be able to bring you a little moment of calm. So when you're in a nice, peaceful place, maybe your sofa or even your bed this evening, Rob can guide you through a yoga nidra.

58:44The one you'll hear is for self-love and it is beautiful. And if you want to make meditation or breathwork or yoga or sand baths a regular practice, do download the Happy Place app. There is so much on there to explore so you can find exactly what works for you. all right a huge thanks again to Rob to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios and to you go slow today

59:31you

1:00:01milligram. Check out zen.com slash find to find zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Hey, what's up subscribers? Welcome back to the channel. So which variety of Dunkin' at-home coffee is your fave? Original blend, French vanilla, or hazelnut? Drop a comment. What are you? Oh, uh, this is what I do when I'm home alone. Drink Dunkin' Original Blend or pretend you're an influencer? Eh, both. Want a cup? Hey, let's do a taste test for the audience. Okay, how's this? The rich, smooth taste of Duncan at home is unmatched. Nice. You're a natural.

1:00:37The home with Duncan is where you want to be. Hey, I'm Dr. Z and I'm a neurosurgeon. So that means long hours, early rounds, late nights, and everything in between. And through it all, I wear figs. They're comfortable when it counts and functional when I need them the most. So where do you wear your figs? On shift, on call, on the couch in the break room listening to this podcast, wherever it is, they fit right in. And now listeners of this podcast can get 15 % off their first order. Just head to wearfigs.com and use code FIGSRX at checkout. That's wearfigs.com, code FIGSRX.