Ruth Langsford: “We all go through sh*t!” My life with divorce and dementia

0:00Fearne Cotton: Before we start, this episode contains some conversations you might find difficult to hear, so do check the show notes for more details. Hello, I'm Fearne Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that's with you whatever life's throwing at you. Today, I'm chatting to Ruth Langsford. You know, people have said to me, oh, it must be so hard, you know, with your sister dying, your dad or getting divorced. It must be very difficult doing your job. And I said, it's no more difficult than if I worked in a bank or on the checkout at a supermarket or I was a bus driver because we all have shit and we all have to go to work.

0:37And, you know, you do your job with that going on in the background. So it's nothing, you know, somehow they go, oh, poor you and being on the television, going through that. Well, I'd have been going through it wherever I was working. Then someday having to go, right, come on, you need to get back to work now, pull yourself together.

0:52Fearne Cotton: I was in a really jolly mood the day that we recorded this anyway, mainly because, I mean, it covers a lot of what me and Ruth talk about in this chat. But I've just decided that I'm going to be jolly, even when things are shit. So I was in a jolly mood and Ruth turned up. I was trying to remember when she was in the studio, at what point in my life I met her. I definitely remember seeing her around TV studios, probably at ITV, when I was a teenager. And her and Eamon just being so lovely to me and sort of almost parental, actually, at times. So getting to have this amazing heart to heart with Ruth felt incredibly special.

1:38Fearne Cotton: She's one of those people, and I'm sure you can all imagine this without me having to say it, who is exactly the same on TV as she is in real life. She's the sort of person that if you saw Ruth Langsford in the supermarket, you could go up to her and be like, oh my God, Ruth, I love watching you on TV. And she'd probably give you a really big hug, ask you what your name is and ask you what you're getting for your tea. She's just a bloody lovely person. And you'll hear that, but you will already know that from everything she's done on TV over the last, God knows how many decades. It was such a fun one.

2:11Fearne Cotton: And broadcaster Ruth is obviously a proper national treasure. She's written a book, a new book called Feeling Fabulous. Be your best self no matter what life throws at you. Yes, Ruth. And it's such a warm hug, this book. I just loved reading it. We talked about a lot. We talked about how she fell into TV presenting. It was a total accident. We talked about managing mum guilt, which I was actually dealing with on the day that we recorded it. because I was trying to deliberate whether to take a new job and how it'd impact my kids and I was really really feeling it so this helped a lot. We also talk about raising capable caring sons who won't need a woman to do everything for them in the future, thank you very much, coping with her parents dementia and grief.

3:00Fearne Cotton: We really do dive into the subject of grief which is something that Ruth has really had to deal with. And that part of the chat is incredibly moving, incredibly moving. And also we talk about a little bit about divorce, not massively about the ins and outs of it, but looking at how you navigate it and how important friends are in these rough times.

3:25Fearne Cotton: Hi friends, Sean Linda from Two Black Guys with Good Credit here. Whether you're running a nonprofit, a school or a small business, Walmart Business is here to support your mission. They make it easy to order what you need, from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials, all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend tracking and tax-exempt purchasing for eligible organizations. Because when your operations are smooth, your impact can be bigger. Visit business.walmart.com to get started. The hustle doesn't have to hurt. If performance pressure is making it hard to breathe, Grow Therapy helps you navigate stress, set boundaries, and actually feel like yourself again.

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5:18Don't settle for higher rates. Download the Jerry app or visit jerry.ai slash acast today.

5:28Fearne Cotton: Right, here we go. This is the show.

5:52Fearne Cotton: I'm Ruth. I am over the moon to see you. I haven't seen you in real life for ages. I think the last time I saw you in real life, you were on this morning. God maybe I was when I was presenting on this morning so that's two years ago at least oh I think it might have been longer might be longer well I'm so happy we get to sit down and have a chat I must point out I'm really annoyed that I'm wearing a cream bra and it's visible through my top I'm just I'm just gonna well interestingly I hadn't noticed that until you pointed it out and now I will just be staring at your right left breast I'm annoyed I didn't pack a black bra I loved reading your book so much thank you it was so it was such a lovely comforting and such a real read.

6:32Fearne Cotton: I just adored it. The one thing that surprised me initially is for someone like me who grew up watching you on TV, you've just always been on the telly. So I never really questioned, how did you start? What was your initiation? And it was really interesting to hear about you beginning in the gallery, doing timings for presenters on air and then moving to become a floor manager. And really you being a broadcaster was sort of an accident. It was a complete accident. So, you know, even getting into TV behind the scenes was, you know, quite an accident. I never set out going, I'd like to work for a TV company.

7:07I met a woman in our local pub in a fishing village in Cornwall where my parents were living. I was a very directionless kind of teen. I'd really messed up my exams. You got expelled. Well, yeah. Well, kind of, it always sounds very dramatic, expelled, doesn't it? Like I'm going to have this amazing story. I got let go. You got let go. I got let go. um yeah I did and my parents were very disappointed and you know when you say they weren't angry disappointed's worse the worst so bad you know that face like so disappointed in me it was awful and suddenly it wasn't funny anymore you know when you think you're like at school like I'm so cool and I'm always in trouble and woohoo and then suddenly I found myself in this fishing village with disappointed parents at 16 not good not good And I met this wonderful woman and she worked at the local ITV station, which was so long ago.

7:58It was called Westwood Television. Some of your listeners might know that. I don't know. And she said, oh, I'll see if I can set up an interview with, you know, a chat, really, with the head of personnel or HR now. Probably none of this would happen now, probably. Charming man. And I was doing a shorthand typing course at that time. She didn't know what else to do. My mum said, well, you know, you can temp. At least you get some work. Yeah. And he said, oh, keep doing that. come back to me when you've passed your exams which I did and then he said I've got a job for a transmission logist I went oh great that sounds amazing that sounds like my job and that's how I started and I worked in the office and then part of that job was in the control room where they did all the timings and it's all like and I swear for them I they opened the door when they were showing me around and I walked into that control room and I was like this is my home these people are my people this is where I want to be it was all you know banks and monitors lights alone like roll television you stand by five coming to you three four I was like oh what's this place it's like Star Trek yes and I and that's how I ended up working so I started off in the office then I ended up in the control room and it was all about timings and fitting your local programming in around network programming working alongside the continuity presenters who were in vision back in the day so we had a glass panel they were in there and I would give them their timings and say right you've got you know 10 seconds into coronation street and they so I kind of saw them working watched it all knew how it all worked and then I was offered this amazing break so the boss called me up one Friday afternoon I thought he was going to ask me to do something took my shorthand and pad and pen and he said we need um someone for holiday relief in continuity and I thought he was to say can you write up this ad and put it in broadcast magazine or something and he said I wondered if you'd like an audition and you know those moments where you go well sorry me and he went yes you I'd never expressed a desire to be on television I said oh um um why me he went I don't know I thought I just thought you might be quite good at it he saw something in you saw something in me and he said look don't don't have to answer now he said it's Friday go and think about it over the weekend let me know on monday and if you're interested i'll set up an audition and i came out of his office and they had um a phone box booth in the building i mean i'm talking like i'm really ancient in the money in bit bit bit rang home and my lovely dad answered and i was like dad guess what this has just happened i don't know what to do what should i do and he said oh oh, love, look, what's the worst that can happen?

10:40And I apply that saying to so many times in my life and things in my life and always have since then. He said, what's the worst that can happen? He went, look, you might be rubbish. It'd be embarrassing for a couple of days. And then everyone will forget about it. You've got a job or you might be quite good. You said, have a go. Yeah. And I always think if my mum had answered, I adore my mum. She's a wonderful woman, still with us, fortunately. she's more cautious than my dad and I think she might have said oh you know well you haven't got training for that and you know and it's only part time and she might have just put a little seed of doubt in my mind yeah my dad was absolutely glass half full man he went go for it do it what's the

11:24Fearne Cotton: worst that can happen I love all those tiny moments of fate that add up to you then doing how different your life moment because you know the I love the film sliding doors and I've had so many things in my life well all of us I suppose where you do often think wonder what would happen if I'd have said no to that I wanted to be a floor manager as you mentioned so I used to go into the main studio in the evenings and watch you know the six o 'clock show whatever they're recording and I said to the head floor manager if a job comes up I'm your girl I'm on the list because I'm quite bossy and I'm very organized so I thought oh I'd be a good floor manager like Quiet, please.

12:00Stand by. Love. Yeah. Heaven. But that never happened because this came along. And so I had the audition and they took me on as a stand in. And then I had to do a week's training. It was a lovely man called Roger Oranshaw and he's frightfully posh, Roger. And he was training me. And I'd had two or three days training, came in the morning and he'd gone sick. And they said, Roger's not well. You're on. You're on. I mean, it was literally you're on. They were ringing round. the other continuity presenters who were on days off and couldn't get hold of anybody and I was on and suddenly I was doing the morning news like this good morning welcome to westward television yeah deep end deep end but the best best training in continuity then you switched on your own microphone you switched on your lights you had a camera and a big clock underneath so you're looking at the camera you could see your peripheral vision like tick tick take the second hand so I could count you know 10 seconds 15 I could feel it the best training no script writers you had to be on standby things went wrong all the time yeah Sunday afternoon film would suddenly snap you see the thing going through oh my god and then it was lights on me and you didn't know how long it was going to be and you know sometimes I'd go chat chat oh sorry we'll get we'll sort that out but in the meantime let's look at what we've got tonight oh Harry Seacombe and High Way and I'd look through the window I'd go let me just check maybe go I'm just going to keep going.

13:26God. So you learnt to chat, to talk, to not rely on water cue. I loved it. It was the best job. Absolutely loved it.

13:34Fearne Cotton: And it set you up so perfectly for everything you've done since. And you have pretty much not stopped working since then, which is no mean feat. Oh, that's not wood. That's not wood. You're tapping metal there, Ruth. But it's no mean feat. You know, it's very easy to just think, oh, you get one job and you get another. But this game is brutal. all it's really harsh and at times you you do feel vulnerable you don't quite know what's going to happen next but you have managed to really jump from job to job and still you're still doing a job you love I have but I've been lots of times out of work that people don't see yeah um I'm still freelance I still have the fear yeah after all these years I still have the fear you know what it's like everyone thinks you're doing so well they see all the good bits which is wonderful Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love what I do.

14:21And I'm very lucky that I'm still working. But I've had some tricky times, you know, and I've lost my job more than once in television. Oh, same. Through no fault of my own, I don't think. You know, new programme controller. We didn't bring you on, want somebody else. Whole company, we lost our franchise down in the West Country. Whole company gone, redundant. That was a scary time. You know, it just happens. The programme comes to an end. You know, oh, you've been on it for a long time. They want a fresh new look. so you have to be pretty resilient don't you god you do stuff like that when when you hear

14:54Fearne Cotton: that sort of generic feedback of we want a fresh new look like I've been dropped from tv shows and I haven't known until I've watched it and someone else is doing it I've read about mine in the paper and you think what's wrong with me why why didn't I get it right but you do have to start to take it not personally otherwise you go mad I always take it personally I think I do too I think I'd love to I sit here and go, yeah, you know, I'm very mature about it. I don't take it personally. I absolutely bloody take it personally. I do. But it sort of is when you're a presenter because it's you. You're not playing a character.

15:26Fearne Cotton: It's you. So it is very hard to pick yourself back up and chuck yourself back out there. I really enjoyed reading the section about the period after you had your son, Jack, and you go into the details of that sort of deliberation of, okay, you've been offered to do the summer cover for this morning, but you've also got a kid and the guilt and the worry that men don't feel they don't have that pressure on them that societal pressure the systemic pressure but also just like what we've been indoctrinated with as women that you should be this and feel like this and and I felt it and you know I'm my kids are 10 and 13 so I'm not wiping bums but I still feel like I need to be as present as I can be they need you more in my opinion when I think so you know the teen bit and And I constantly go, oh, God, I really want to do that job.

16:16Fearne Cotton: I feel bad because I'm going to be away overnight this night. And I'm in the thick of that now. So I really appreciated you writing about that. Oh, thank you. What helped you? You know, you say now you've got a very well-rounded young man for a son. Well, I would say that, wouldn't I? But he is. I think he is. And, you know, so you don't look back with regret. But at the time, what did help you get through those moments of, oh, I feel terrible. I'm not there. you know you just do you just have to and that's why I've written about it in the book as well because if any younger women read this and I meet you know I work with young producers all the time young women who are having their first baby they've come back to work and I remember once this morning I went into the loo and there was a young woman in there crying and and she tried to stop crying and I said oh my god what's the matter she'd just come back after having the baby and she went I just feel so bad because I left the baby and I said to her I absolutely know exactly how you feel I said your baby won't remember any of this your baby I'm sure will be being looked after by whoever you have chosen to look after him or her and you'd have chosen well yeah they're being fed and nappy changed they won't remember any of it and if this is important to you to have that feeling of fulfillment to work do it because actually they won't remember any of this and this guilt that we carry around and you're right no disrespect to men and there are a lot of single fathers out there doing great jobs but I do think that women seem to have this guilt and whether that's you said societal pressure that we've always been the oh the mummy mum's at home and bringing up the children and suddenly mummy's not she's she's working but what happens is she's still doing the majority of the child care they're looking after the house the shopping the thing the planning and you you rarely hear men I'm not going to say never but you rarely hear men say oh I feel so bad today you know I've had two days away from the kids you don't you don't I got to the point with driving home that even a red traffic light and we had a nanny so I chose a nanny because I looked at all those child care options and a lot of them with the kind of strange hours that we do it didn't just work nurseries I said well I can't drop him off because I've got to be at work at eight.

18:31I can't drop him at eight. You're live on the telly, yeah. Yeah. So we had the nanny, not live in, but I had a nanny who came and I thought, well that's regular person for Jack. But if I say to her I'll be home at six, if we were running late then I would be in such a panic. And I used to think, I used to worry, which I have written about, that Jack was going to think she was his mum. I was thinking he's going to bond with her, her smell, everything, her voice and he'll think that she's his mum doesn't remember her she worked for us for two and a half years he doesn't sorry I hope you're not listening to this I don't mean that but yeah she was a fantastic nanny he doesn't remember it so this is what I'm saying to these young women is that don't beat yourself up don't do this to yourself because they won't remember there are loads of things that from Jack's childhood you know very young where I was guilt-ridden and as you mentioned when they asked us to do the summer this morning which hadn't been done before my absolute first reaction was like no I can't do that summer holidays Jack was six or something and Eamon at the time quite rightly said look as his dad and parent I absolutely agree with you we should say no it's summer holidays we can't do that he said however if I was your agent now I'd go are you mad they're offering you this fantastic you know this morning five days a week all through the summer we'd be mad not to take you said and if we don't we were doing Fridays then he said do you think they'll give it to someone else and if those people are good do you think they're going to give us fridays back they won't and he was right yeah and actually it was fine jack was fine

20:04Fearne Cotton: of course and and the judgment would only ever be on you in that in that couple from men and women going oh well who's looking after her kid they would never go who's looking after his child and that's the thing that i have to wrestle with and i even made a decision last week where i said yes to something that I really want to do. And also, you know, it's important that I'm financially on track and I'm on my own and I've got to make sure that I'm doing it properly. But, you know, actually, my kids are at an age where I could talk to them and I said, look, I'm going to take this job and I'm not going to be around quite as much in June and July.

20:39Fearne Cotton: And they were like, yeah, yeah, don't worry, we get it. It's all good. And we had that conversation, which took a bit of the stress away. But even after this today, I've got three podcasts today and I'm going to kill myself getting home as quick as I can to then race to my mate Ella's house, who's picked up the kids for me, who's going to give them dinner, to then come back and try and make up for me having not been there. And we are all pushing ourselves. And I'm sure if I sat down with your children right now and asked them, does it affect you badly if mum's working? Do you worry? Are you thinking, where is she?

21:11They'd just say no. No. They'd be fine because they know you love them. Absolutely. They have a loving family. They know you love them. I actually think it's really good for your children to see you work.

21:20Fearne Cotton: Yeah. And particularly young men to say, you know, women go to work now. Yeah. We do not stay at home. Yeah. And bake bread and clean up after you. And I was really strict with Jack when he was growing up. Maybe I was a bit too hard sometimes because I was so determined to not send another useless male out into the world thinking that a woman is there to fetch and carry and pick up after him. Because I've seen women do it with some. They're very different often with summers. You know, they're like, oh, I'll do that for you, darling. Mum will do everything. And don't get me wrong, I love it. When he comes home now, I love nothing more than cooking his breakfast.

21:56Or I'm just like, oh. But when he was young, leaving things on the floor, you know, he had to change his sheets. I was really strict. It's like, because I thought when he meets somebody, he's got a wonderful girlfriend, she's not going to do that, I hope. I mean, I hope the young women now are going to go, sorry, change your shirt, iron your shirt. Why would I do that? No, get grit. shirt so he needed to know that and he can cook he can iron you know he's a very capable young man um and I think that's a responsibility on parents and mothers of sons particularly that's what I did I was quite tough on him you know I think it's a really good way like parenting

22:34Fearne Cotton: boys is such a different flavor I've got a girl and a boy and it is completely different and I I could sometimes see myself picking up the slack because my daughter is quite like me. She's organised, methodical. She likes things done a certain way, whereas my son is not that way inclined. So I have to, rather than go, oh, I'll just pick it up then, actually do the job of, like you say, not sending another young man into the world who's going to expect everything to be done for them. It's so important. Because actually, if it has been done for them, well, of course, it's not their fault. They're only different.

23:06And I had a friend, this was years ago, one I worked with. she was one of five children there were three boys two girls all three boys went to private school the two girls didn't right it's like we're not wasting a private education on girls and she said on saturday mornings all the boys played sport at their public private schools rugby and hockey and off they'd go with dad and the two girls stayed at home with their mom and saturday was cleaning day they used to strip the boys beds do the cleaning help them up and that's how they grew up wow we so if boys grow up like that of course they're going to go into the world thinking that women pick up after them yeah we don't we don't by the way we we don't we don't

23:46Fearne Cotton: we won't and we won't we did once but not anymore now this part of the show is brought to you by indeed we talk a lot about happiness here on happy place which interestingly i think does often mean diving into the situations that test us and push us to grow, like finding work when you feel properly valued. I know from experience that it feels incredibly empowering when you find a career that actually rewards your skills and pushes you to find out what you're capable of. There's nothing like the feeling of contributing to something you really care about. But I think we have to be honest with ourselves.

24:22Fearne Cotton: Getting to that point can be exhausting. Nowadays, there's the pressure to to build a personal brand and the need to be constantly on online. So landing a job you love has become a full-time job in itself. It's absolute madness. I know from running Happy Place that I feel exactly like that all of the time. I think some of the podcast chats that I've had over the years have helped me greatly. Grace Beverly came on a while back and she outright talked about giving herself that balance, ensuring that she had time where she properly switches off from her multi-layered business plans that she's running at any one point.

25:02Fearne Cotton: And also interestingly, the actor Sam Claflin came on not long ago and talked about deleting his entire online presence because he just felt it wasn't representative of who he was today and not feeling any need or pressure to go back on to start posting anytime soon. I found that sort of astounding and liberating to hear that we actually do have much more autonomy in that way than we believe. There's also a growing trend of companies hiring based on a person's online footprint rather than just their skills. But I wonder if that's a win for anyone in the long run. Is it creating a cycle where we're more focused on the image of the work than the actual work itself?

25:47Fearne Cotton: I think so. I think it's a shame that people are hiring based purely on what someone's online presence looks like and perhaps the amount of followers they have. I don't think it sort of gives us the full picture of anyone or anything, certainly not someone's skill set. I know plenty of brilliant people that do their job to the highest standards who aren't anywhere near social media. So for people like that, they're going to be massively missing out on opportunity if our focus is pulled too much onto what somebody is doing and saying online. My brother is a really good example of this. He runs a business.

26:27Fearne Cotton: He's incredibly competent at what he does. He's always forward thinking and building his company, yet he's not on social media. You might go on there to snoop about, but if you tried to find him and tried to discover what his skillset was from an online platform, you wouldn't find it. So I think we need to really consider one-on-one interaction to really get a sense of who someone is and what their skillset is. But I think if you are a boss hiring and at Happy Place, I hire different people to do different roles. I would never look at someone's digital footprint alone and base themselves, their values, their skill set only on that.

27:10Fearne Cotton: As we all know, you can put anything you want on a social media profile. You can create content to make your life or your job or your skill set look much more emphasised and much better than it is in actuality. So I do think it's a shame if our focus is only on that. For me with Happy Place, that one-on-one interaction is imperative. The whole brand is built on people and feelings and emotions and storytelling. So for me to simply judge somebody on their online profile, what they've built online would be absurd. It's much more about, is this person a nice person? Do I rub along well with them?

27:51Fearne Cotton: Have they got something to say that I believe in or is interesting or could I learn from this person? So I think we've really got to take a full-bodied approach when hiring people. And also if you're the sort of person that's looking for a job but doesn't have a big online presence, doesn't want one, that is okay. And you don't have to feel worried that you've not got millions of followers on social media. It shouldn't come into this conversation as much as it does at the moment. I think we'd all agree that getting an interview for a job shouldn't depend on how often you post and perform, which is why Indeed has the right idea, because an Indeed profile lets you showcase your real skills and experience so you get noticed by employers for the things that really matter to them.

28:40Fearne Cotton: On Indeed, there's not the need for constant self-promotion or building a personal brand. It's about letting skills and real work history speak for themselves, cutting through the noise and the hype. So download the Indeed app to create your Indeed profile today and find a role that's the right fit for you. The hustle doesn't have to hurt. If performance pressure is making it hard to breathe, Grow Therapy helps you navigate stress, set boundaries, and actually feel like yourself again. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th, Grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around.

29:23You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability, and get started in as little as two days. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans, including Medicaid in some states. Sessions average about$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. Visit growtherapy.com slash start now to get started. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now.

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30:04Fearne Cotton: Hi friends, Sean Linda from Two Black Guys with Good Credit here. Whether you're running a non-profit, a school, or a small business, Walmart Business is here to support your mission. They make it easy to order what you need, from tech and cleaning supplies to everyday essentials, all at low prices and with helpful tools like spend, tracking, and tax-exempt purchasing for eligible organizations. Because when your operations are smooth, your impact can be bigger. Visit business.walmart.com to get started. Tired of your car insurance rate going up even with a clean driving record? You're not alone.

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31:35Fearne Cotton: I also loved reading about your parents in your childhood you're part of an army family that moved around a lot but you talk about like you say your mum's still with us she's 94 94 what an amazing I mean she's got dementia she's got Alzheimer's but you know what she's still great she's still got a sense of humor my mum and yeah she's she's lovely but you know dementia's tough Well, let's talk about your mum first in that case. You say one of the hardest things is actually leaving when you've been to visit because she doesn't feel settled that she's at home. And that's very tricky. Have you found ways to deal with that yourself?

32:12health yeah that's only started quite recently um so I always say with dementia and Alzheimer's um things change yeah so there's no one-size-fits-all advice to people so the reason I talk about it all is um I hope it will help and I'm an ambassador for the Alzheimer's Society because they gave us so much help as a family my mum particularly when my dad was diagnosed so I want to give back and so I just tell people when my mum does this I tend to deal with it like this and I find it helps so this has only just started where when I go to leave now she I say right you know the first time it happened I go right I better get off mum and she goes oh right should I get my coat and the first time she did I thought oh no she thinks she's coming with me and I went oh no no no you don't need your coat mummy because I'm just oh well where am I going then I went oh well you're gonna have your dinner now what dinner what are you not having dinner well no and it was awful and I started to get oh this is true I don't know what to do so I've got a little system now so when they have their supper at six and I'm there in the afternoon whatever and I say to one of the carers at five to six can you come and say so we'll be in her room we're in the lounge whatever we're doing I always have the dog with me she loves Maggie yeah and you come and say oh Joan it's supper and start taking her in and as she gets up I just I do I make it quick you know it's like dropping children at nursery it's that I go don't linger don't make this difficult I go all right mummy you're gonna have dinner I said I'm just gonna take Maggie for a walk see you later that's all I say see you later I kiss her cheek and I go I don't look back it's awful a few times it made me cry and now I'm used to it yeah and so I just go and don't look back and she looks like oh are you not and I go no no you give us up and I'm gone and I waited like I used to it reminded me I did this with Jack at nursery I waited outside thinking she's not going to settle he's not going to settle and then I did this through the you've got like a hatchway into the dining room thing she was perfectly fine she was sitting down just lady next door talking to her yeah so that's how I've dealt with it so every time behaviors change I just try and go with it so she she does a lot of um like if I brought her here she'd go oh yes I've been here before haven't I because I think I made that lamp and with my dad I made so many mistakes with my dad um I said when I say mistakes because we didn't understand our time we didn't know and I thought I was helping my dad by trying to help him remember things so I was constantly using the word remember to him I'd go dad remember when we went to that you know theic party and I've dropped my ball in the river and you had to go in and he'd be looking blankly at me and I go you must remember dad remember I had that lovely red ball that grandma but you must remember that daddy remember remember remember remember you don't remember you can't remember but you want that for your own nervous system

35:12Fearne Cotton: to calm down like please show me a sign of something I think I was in denial when it happened when he was diagnosed, I didn't want it to be true. I adored my dad. He was a great raconteur, storyteller. We were very close, very similar characters, really close. And I was in denial, if I'm honest, and I look back. So I was all like, remember, remember, remember, remember. With my mum, I'm so different because my dad would say something like, oh, yes, I've been here. I made that lamp. I'd go, no, you didn't, dad. You couldn't have made that lamp. And then we'd get into a bit of a because I thought I was trying to help him going of course you couldn't have made that how could you have made that you go I absolutely bloody did my mum says it now and I go oh did you it's lovely she goes yeah and this I made this as well that's a lovely month and then we move on done easy I think it's so important for other people to hear that I've got two friends I'm thinking of right now who are going through they're in the trenches with it at the moment probably at about the same level of dementia and, you know, both wrestling with that and accepting it and also the role reversal that happens.

36:20Fearne Cotton: It's huge. That's huge, you know, and like you say, with the sandwich generation, you're often looking after kids, teenagers, and then you become the protector and the carer for the parent and that is burdensome. It's a lot. How do you deal with that level of weight that you're carrying at that time? Again, I think with any situation, like we were saying about being a working parent, you just do. But I found it very difficult. Because I had Jack later, when I was 42 by the time I had Jack, my dad was in the early stages of dementia then. It was very early stages, but he had been diagnosed. and I always remember them coming to stay with us and Jack was only about two and he was on the kitchen floor with some wooden bricks you know and he was piling them up and knocking them down laughing and my dad shouted at him because my dad's dementia he thought that that was naughty behavior and so I was doing something with my mom I don't know what we're doing we're all in the kitchen together fortunately and Jack went well knock the bricks over my dad went oi oi stop that I think he lent over almost as if he was going to not smack him, but you know, and Jack looked horrified.

37:32My mum rushed over and went, Dennis, Dennis. And I went, Dad, it's okay. And it was a horrible moment because I thought my dad would never have done that. He would have been the best granddad for Jack. You know, he went sailing and fishing. He'd have done all those things. Jack didn't really know him and was thinking, why is this man shouting at me? It was a really horrible moment. and after that I used to kind of keep them slightly separate because I could see if Jack was being noisy and not you know as a two-year-old being a kid it was irritating my dad and so I found that very difficult and I will say to people that role reversal that you said you suddenly become the parent and it's it's subtle to start with and it's a really difficult change and the worst thing I think for me and for many people I talk to as an ambassador for Alzheimer's Society is the awful awful decision to put someone in a care home yeah it's the hardest thing for everyone you feel guilty you think everyone's judging you you think I shouldn't be working you know I should give up work and and have my dad live with us and I should do all this and a wonderful um lady at my mum's when my father went into a care home said to my mum you can go back to being his wife now Joan isn't that lovely yeah and I thought yeah because she's been the carer the wiper upper the thing they'd come on and she's now they do all that and she goes to see him and it but it was she struggled and it took my sister and I felt guilty because we knew it was time and my mum was becoming ill herself yeah not sleeping no my dad was getting up in the middle of the night and trying to get out the house and then he flushed his pajamas down the toilet one night flooded the bathroom you know and she was dealing with all that also not telling us because she was like didn't want to bother you you're both so busy didn't want to bother you what could you have done it's two o 'clock in the morning and we knew it was time and they she had um a health worker and we said to her she said look we're concerned about your mom I said listen if you're waiting for my mom to call you and say I can't cope with Dennis can you come and get him hell will freeze over this will never happen and I said we're going to have to find another way and they did they he went into a care home he used to go in for respite occasionally and while he was there they said to my mum oh a place has become available he was already there so she didn't have that awful pack his bag and take him and once once she knew once he was settled and she knew he was okay and we said to her daddy needs 24 hour care mum and you can't possibly give him that and he would not want you to become ill looking after him he wouldn't want that for you no he wouldn't want that but it's a really really awful yeah um awful situation I had somebody on um Twitter or Instagram once because I post quite a lot about my mum dancing in the kitchen doing the veg she doesn't do that so much now she's much older but and somebody put you know it's all the comments like oh we love your mum we love watching your mum and someone put oh if she loves her mum so much why doesn't why is she in a care home why is she not living with her I how I did I would have flipped out.

40:55Well, can you imagine one of those? Because I don't really reply to those kind of things because you give them oxygen, don't you? But I was back. I was like, how dare you? You have no idea of my mother's medical needs, her requirements. How dare you? And then, of course, everyone then jumps on. Then I felt bad because it was a pile on.

41:14Fearne Cotton: I'm sorry, that person has no right to comment on that. But it just showed how much it hurt those things because you're feeling all that yourself and then someone goes oh yeah if you love her so much why is she not living in your house so it it's a very very hard thing for people and I see it all the time new people coming into my mum's care home you know going around I do lots of things for Alzheimer's the men we walk every year and I chat to people and that's the the one thing people talk about the most is oh you know and they'll feel so bad and they're in a care home and so don't you it's done with love You're doing this with love.

41:50Fearne Cotton: You want them to be completely comfortable and safe and cared for. And alongside all of this deliberation and trying to reconcile with the decision, you're also slowly losing that person. They're still there, but they're not recognisable often in terms of their personality. And I think that must be incredibly hard to deal with. I think the hardest for me was when I realised my dad didn't actually know it was me, his daughter. and it was quite subtle you know so I'd always go hi daddy and then I just I just knew one day I could see in his eyes he doesn't actually know I'm his daughter I think he thinks I'm just he stopped calling me he used to call me Ruthie and or Ruti Tooty so when I'd go hi daddy oh Ruti and suddenly he didn't do that one day and I looked and thought he just thinks I'm a nice lady who's bringing him his favorite Maltesers and cake and then I had to go but that's all right because I know who he is yeah and I'm here and you know but it's hard and my mum 100 % knows it's me and in fact when I arrive if she's in the lounge or something and I see her and go like this she goes and then I see her turning to her this is my daughter it's my daughter and then she says exactly the same thing oh my goodness what a lovely surprise How did you know I was here every time?

43:15And before, again, this is things you learn. I used to go, what do you mean, how do I know you were here? Now I go, oh, the lady downstairs told me. Yeah. Oh, well, you're just passing. I went, yeah, yeah, I was just passing. I just thought I'd pop in. Because there's no point saying, what do you mean?

43:29Fearne Cotton: And it's stressful for you and her to keep contesting it constantly. I think, again, for people who are, this is early days for them, this is important stuff to hear, to get through it. awareness you know you talk about your two friends you know if there's something in my book that they read and go oh that's interesting I won't do that and the Alzheimer's Society really helped my mom and they got the Plymouth branch because she was living in Plymouth then or near Plymouth they got in touch with her and then they had the dementia cafes and things they invited her to come along with my dad and then she met other partners husbands and wives and then they were a bit like it becomes quite childlike that you know when you go to nurseries or mums and toddler groups and you go honestly I just can't get mine out the bath and they go oh well what I do is I do this you just need people that get it people that get it so then my mum was talking to somebody and said oh he keeps doing this they went oh well what we do what I've done is this so by me talking about it very openly going to events writing about it in my book talking to people at the memory walk you hope that you just plant these little seeds that that might never happen to them their husband or wife might not ever get up in the night and flush their pajamas down the toilet but if they do you know they might learn something from talking to other people and everything is about awareness now isn't it yeah but you know there's I mean very little funding and things for Alzheimer's but we try we soldier on I mean like you say when when your dad was first diagnosed and you and you didn't quite understand what was going on that awareness could have helped hugely so I think it's so brilliant that you're talking about it and equally in the book you're not afraid to dive into talking about grief which has obviously been just such a huge part of this chapter of your life losing your dad and also your sister to suicide it it you know reading that chapter about your sister was just so moving and beautiful how you describe her and and and talk about the loss what do you think has helped you with your grief which I know is not something that you one day get over it's something that you're you live I think

45:43suicide is just it's such a tragedy and the people left behind are just left not knowing I'm not knowing why and your question is just why why, why, why and then as time has gone on I've accepted that I'll never know why and nothing will bring her back and so I the only way that I can make any sense of it and stop it hurting is is to just know she didn't want to be here and nothing I could have done could have changed that really no because you think if only I should have rung her more I should have done this I should have come down you you just think you could have done something why didn't we see it how could we not have seen it why didn't she talk to us why why why and um and there are no answers because she'll never be able to tell us why and I you know I just miss her so much but I know she would not want me to have a sad life and I um I did a lot of crying I did a lot of time off work and then I thought she she doesn't want this for you don't do this you need to get back out there and actually work has always been my savior actually to just get back to work and have some structure I mean you say get up in the morning you know

47:32Fearne Cotton: like going back to Loose Women a show that you've worked on for two decades you've got an amazing bevy of women you've got an eyelash i've got an eyelash come off you've got uh you've got a whole bevy of women that care about you deeply and for all the bullshit press stories that are written about handbags behind the scenes these women welcomed you back with open arms and gave you the time and space to do that in your way yeah and that's yeah beautiful and you're right we do get i get so angry when i read those things you know they just love to pit women against women It was like, why can you not believe that a group of women can actually get on and like each other, have difference of opinions.

48:13And, you know, there are a lot of loose women. So there are some you prefer to work with than others just because you maybe know them longer or you get on a bit better. But they're all wonderful. But I, yeah, when I went back to loose women and this morning, you know, I was working at this morning as well with Eamon. So I had Eamon's support knowing that, you know, he's got me. If I can't do something or I think I'm going to go, he's got me. and loose women were the same that I just knew that they wouldn't expect me to talk about. I mean, look at me. I thought I can't go on television and just sob.

48:47It's just horribly uncomfortable for everybody. And it wasn't because I didn't want to talk about my sister or talk about the tragedy of suicide or how one feels or copes. I just can't do it without crying all the time. And my eyelashes falling off. But nor should you. Nor should you. no so I did feel I think I said in the book it I just felt like I was being hugged I remember going back and just everyone like this they didn't even have to say anything and I couldn't talk about it on there and you know I have mentioned my sister as time's gone on but I can't really talk about it properly but having that support and also it's not just the women because obviously you know what people don't see is your your team your production team and we're a very close team of loose women and obviously they hear the producers and researchers they hear all our conversations in the morning and we're a tight group so it wasn't just the women it was all of them not expecting me no producers pushing me you know like would be good airtime wouldn't it get rude to have a little cry on the telly never never never so yeah I'm very thankful for that and the other thing is you know people have said to me oh it must be so hard you know with your sister dying your dad or getting divorced it's very difficult doing your job and I said it's no more difficult than if I worked in a bank or on the checkout the supermarket or I was a bus driver because we all have shit going on in our lives and we all have to go to work and you know you do your job whatever it is with that going on in the background so it's nothing you know somehow they go oh poor you and being on the television going through that I go well I'd have been going through it wherever I was working yeah and then some day having to go right come on you need to get back to work now pull yourself together so and like you say that the

50:36Fearne Cotton: routine the structure the familiarity of the people and you know how the day is going to go yeah that that is helpful if you can lean into that you know you're safe to do so that is that is some structure that you you cannot find when you're grieving or when you're going through a tough time because everything is chaotic that's the nature of it that it's And everything feels unreal, you know, when I just remember thinking, why is everybody going about their business and things and smile? I thought I'd never, ever smile again, you know, and then you do. And so it's just like the darkest, darkest time, isn't it?

51:10And so that's for me, it's always been work. I mean, obviously, and my amazing friends, family, you know, just holding you up. My friends just held me up. but going back to work for me is just like right come on stop crying now I would cry massively in the shower in the mornings I'd have a proper you know snotty boo hooey that kind of crying and then it was almost I would tell give myself a talking to her come out the shower and go right stop now because you're going to have puffy eyes stop come on and then I could do that dry my hair go to work do the thing get the car go home and then cry again yeah and each time it just got easier I

51:49Fearne Cotton: I think it's so important to allow yourself to feel it, to really lean in and go, I'm going to weep. Or if it's anger, shout, scream, whatever, get it out of you. And then there's a time where you have to go about your day and you have to get it done. And then if you need to fall apart again at the end, you let yourself. I think when we go, no, I mustn't. I must carry on and be stoic. That's when you're in trouble because it's stored in your body, your tense. It's bad for you. It's really bad for you. Hi friends, Sean Linda from Two Black Guys with Good Credit here. Whether you're running a non-profit, a school, or a small business, Walmart Business is here to support your mission.

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54:19Fearne Cotton: I mean, you know, I'm not going to sit here and quiz you about divorce. I'm getting divorced. No one wants to talk about their divorce. We shouldn't ever feel the pressure in an interview setting to be quizzed about it, to be asked about it. it's private it's unsettling and everything that anyone who's been through it would understand it is but what I am interested in again is what has held you up in the times where you've felt very wobbly again for people who are going through it or having those days where they feel like I can't get out of bed this is this is too much uh friends first and foremost amazing group of friends um I've got a very small group of girlfriends, some I've known from school and a few I've gathered along the way like you do.

55:06And they, when my sister died, it's the same. Amazing. So friends really there for me and counselling therapy, which I haven't done before. And that was through a very good friend who said to me, you know, would you think about seeing, she had a therapist going through her divorce years ago. and I was a bit like I don't need a therapist to tell me I'm sad my marriage has ended and she's like please and she went on and on please honestly I think it would help you it helped me so much just to get some clarity I was like no and eventually I just to shut her up genuinely to shut her up I went fine she said it's zoom she's in Manchester and if it's not for you if you don't gel you don't like it I will shut up and I was like fine set up this meeting it's the best thing I've ever done the best thing I've ever done I actually wish I'd done it now when my sister died but I didn't but some of that's coming out now I'm sure it is because you

56:06Fearne Cotton: I mean I've been on and off in therapy for years and years but but regularly the last two years and and that for me has been a game changer to go every whatever day it is I go and there's no getting out of it or oh I can't it's you go and it's one hour of your day and it it's been life changing and I think like you say you go in for one thing and then all this other stuff comes up might be from the past or might be other things that you're still not quite settled with and it's such an amazing opportunity to actually look at it all the stuff that you're just going don't look over there that's too scary or that's too painful to really get stuck into it how do you think it's it's changed your life or your mindset maybe I think it made me take the anger away a little bit um because it's easy to be angry and anger doesn't really get you anywhere it just makes you all like and she's like you know you just need to try and take that energy and put it somewhere else yeah i think that with your girlfriends good friends they're always on your side they're like my cheerleaders you know so if i go oh i hate him they go yeah we hate him too or whatever it is you know this is wrong it's not my fault they go no of course it's not your fault all that that's what girlfriends do yeah we're championing our girlfriends and that's what they did and also they just allow me to cry and blub and all those things they do I think with therapy is that she doesn't know us and obviously she's seen Eamon and I on the tv but she doesn't know us at all and so they don't take sides at all she just lets me talk and then just leads you in certain directions they don't even tell you what to do well you know I'm just you know speaking preaching to the converted here but she never says well do this or don't do that she says well you know you've got to think of this and protect yourself and what about that and um she says to me now because I don't I was doing it once a week and sometimes twice a week and now it's much less but still there and you know and she says you can call me anytime so we have a session and she'll say what should we say six weeks like okay she goes of course you can call me which I have done something's come up and I've called her but the times in between are getting longer which is great but I always have her words these little mantras in my head and she said to me I didn't see I only saw the top of your head for the first three sessions because I was crying so much she was literally and um one of the very first things she said to me is um you know your marriage is over it was quite blunt and I was a bit kind of I went I I know she said well you know until you accept that you're not going to find it easy to move on that stuck with me in a lot of things actually not just a divorce but my dad I was saying I didn't want to accept he had Alzheimer's once you accept it you know the fight's over fight's over it's like he's got it or your your marriage is over you go oh yeah oh gosh yes it is isn't it so where what should we do now where should we put this energy you've got this sadness or this anger and then one of the other things she said which has stuck with me very vividly is um when you're feeling you know you're in a dark place and you can't see any light really or happiness and you feel low and it's gloomy she just said to me just find your light just look over up there and there's a little it might be a little tiny pinprick of light just tiny focus on that come away from there come away from that anger take that energy and let's put it over there there's there's your light it's just there can you see it you go oh and I can And that really helped me every time I was feeling really low, despairing.

1:00:02What's to become of me? I did a lot of that. That has been very interesting because I thought, why did I do that? Like, you know, oh, my God, what's going to become on my own? Oh, my God. You know, it's like some Victorian lady. And then I thought, what am I saying here? Am I saying what am I going to do because I haven't got a man? That's kind of what I'm saying, isn't it, really? Because I'm alone a lot of the time in my house. And, you know, I'm a very capable woman.

1:00:29Fearne Cotton: Yep. In lots of areas, you know what I mean? I drive a thing, I've got a job. So I thought, what am I saying? And that stopped me a bit in my tracks. I thought, there's some conditioning here that I need to have a man in my life to feel complete in any way. And, you know, listen, I'm not a man hater. This has not turned me into, like, I don't want a man in my life. I hate men. I don't. but it just made me think why am I feeling like this I'm feeling so scared of being alone there's this fear and and I couldn't see a happy light I was just like oh my god I'm on my own yeah what's to become of me Fern but it's so amazing when you have that real I've had it a couple of times recently where like I took the kids to centre parks on my own and that was a bit of a fear like taking the kids anywhere on my own I was like I did it yeah and I had a great time I had a great leave and actually you say two things in the end of the book that I bloody love one of them was you simply say Ruth well bloody done and I love that you said that like you you can reach that point where you're proud of yourself and we're not conditioned to do that we're always you know highlighting our flaws and looking at things we've done wrong to get to a point where you go well bloody done is a really good thing and also you say that you now do feel there's a really exciting new chapter ahead which made me buzz and tingle with joy I don't know what it is who cares I haven't planned it and I definitely feel that the the dark cloud is lifting it's not gone completely but it's lifting and I'm going oh look there's blue sky over there oh look sunshine there's some light and I'm feeling that I'm just thinking well who knows what's going to happen and and everybody's obsessed with like well have you been dating have you got friends to set you up literally no no I don't mind saying again haven't been put off men haven't been put off love haven't even been put off marriage but am I looking am I dating am I on apps absolutely no have I said to a single person you've got any friends could you set me up because I'm really okay right now because I'm not through the process I know I'm not and I don't need that at the moment um however you know I might walk out of here today bump into somebody go oh I'm so sorry eyes meet and who knows who knows how exciting and that's lovely and I don't just mean about romance and love I just mean in life my life generally I don't know what's gonna happen I've got a book I mean you know I've got a book yes never thought I'd do a book and it's not all about my divorce it's about all sorts of things And so I now have this feeling of this is a new chapter.

1:03:14It might be an exciting chapter. I don't know where it'll take me. I've got to find the happiness. And the other thing my counsellor said to me is start doing things for you. That's why I went back to Pilates. Start doing things for you because women are so bad at that. We go, well, husband thing, children, parents. We're last on the list. Absolutely last on the list. Jack's left home now. you know so I don't have to worry about you know you always worry about your kids but you know I haven't got that day-to-day like you have and so I'm now making myself connect with friends that I maybe haven't seen for a while we've been a bit lazy about getting together started Pilates again which I'm loving planning a few trips with some friends that you've got to start doing that yourself and create your happiness because if you sit at home crying watching Coronation Street which I love by the way I love doing that it's one of my joys um but nobody's going to knock on the door and say are you lonely you know you've got to start looking outwards for yourself um so the therapy I would highly recommend yeah I'm a bit of a convert now and um and it's really interesting how many people are wanting to talk about it so on my book tour you know so many people are saying oh you know you had therapy and I miss a wonderful woman she was a retired psychotherapist and she said to me I just want to say thank you for talking about it because people don't often they seems to have they feel some kind of shame of saying I'm having therapy as in you know you can't cope and I was like well I couldn't cope yeah I was in a bad place yeah yeah and that

1:04:48Fearne Cotton: person did something about it or my friend did actually yeah well I am I feel so happy hearing you talk and excited for you as to what's to come and it's just amazing to see how you've navigated it all and to read about it and it I just I loved it it was like that the whole book was just like a gorgeous warm hug I I really really loved it and before we wrap up there's two things I want to ask the first is we're making a happy place playlist so really happy songs that make us feel great make us want to get up and move about what would your song be I like dancing in the moonlight oh I love that that would always get me up that's a great that That would always get me up.

1:05:30And what's the song that's called Happy? When you're happy, darling. Oh, yeah, Pharrell. Pharrell. No, that plays. It makes you happy, doesn't it? It does. You're suddenly clicking your fingers. I love music. I mean, music is therapy to me. And I love cooking. I love music. So I'm often in my kitchen with the tunes. Same. It's the best.

1:05:48Fearne Cotton: That's my favourite day. Same. A Sunday cooking with music on. Heaven. Yeah. And where is your happy place? Home. Literally. I mean, it sounds a bit of a cliche, but I'm so busy that I'm not at home as much as I'd like to be and I love a day. I call it pottering at home. Pottering. Pottering. I love pottering. So what have you done? I go, I don't know. I've just been pottering about. Pottering about. Pottering about. Is there anything better? Nothing. So this is the scenario. Walk in the door, bra off. That has to come off. Literally get it off. Every woman I know. Hair up because it's annoying me.

1:06:22Fearne Cotton: Colouring the fringe for me. Colouring the fringe. And then just pottering, just tidying, placing things putting dishwasher i just might just go like this yeah exactly moving moving tiny amounts moving things just in a 30 degree angle yes oh i love it and then sometimes i like quiet because we you know i've got a busy life and always talking talking talking talking to people meetings silence to me so i have you know sometimes jeans are banging and then sometimes i go same absolute silence papers cup of tea a book silence is golden is the drawing so home for me Yeah, I hear you on that one. I love that.

1:06:59Fearne Cotton: Well, Ruth, I have adored talking to you. Oh, thank you. Well, I love the podcast and I always thought it would be nice to be on it one day. Oh, my God, I'm so thrilled you are. And thank you for being just totally yourself. Thank you. Because it's massively helpful to me and many other people out there. Thank you, Ruth. By the way, did Kate Winslet sit here? Not in that exact show. I'm so sorry. That was different studios, sadly. I got it. Oh, Ruth. Oh, my God. If I didn't already love Ruth, I love her even more if that's humanly possible. And the members of the Happy Place team that were here, like Amelia came in after and went, oh my God, I love her.

1:07:38Fearne Cotton: Like we all just, do you know what you want to do? We want to have a Prosecco night out with Ruth, don't we? Can you imagine doing like a Huns night out with Ruth? The dream. The dream. I don't know how I would, I would combust with joy. We'd be pouring the Prosecco, having a little chat. We're going to make that happen. I'm manifesting it. Ruth's book Feeling Fabulous is out now and I'm going to be back in just a few days with more musings on what is making me and the Happy Place team feel really good and what we are binning. Until we chat again, a massive thank you again to Ruth, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios and to you, you are fabulous.

1:08:25Thank you.

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