Sam Claflin: I calorie count and overthink! What is body dysmorphia?

0:00Fearne Cotton: Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that helps you realise you're not alone in how you feel. Today I'm chatting to Sam Claflin. I have like a form of body dysmorphia, I think. And I think that may have stemmed from my being a teenager and hitting puberty late and not feeling like I was good looking or too short or not strong enough. I felt really broken. Last year was a really difficult year for me mentally and emotionally. Like at the beginning of the year, I was crying constantly. I was just so depleted. I was so exhausted and I needed to ask someone for help and I didn't know how.

0:42Fearne Cotton: You find me at my kitchen table again, which is now my preferred place to record these introductions. And you find me in a reflective mood about to make some rice crispy chocolate treats for my kids yeah I'm being one of those knobs who's trying to do it all and you know dropping plates here and there but I'm trying to make snacks from scratch here and there for my kids oh I sound like a twat even saying it um I mean look especially my 13 year old son is just mainlining a lot of shit at the moment so I'm trying to balance it out by making some stuff. So I've snuck in, well I'm about to sneak in, some brown rice puffs into these chocolate treats and Rex has asked me to put marshmallows in them which sort of mitigates the whole point.

1:32Fearne Cotton: Oh what are we doing? I don't know. I'm like you just probably trying to do too much and juggling work and in my case kids and trying to make fucking Rice Krispie cakes. Anyway, that's where my head's at today. This will probably last all of a week and I'll go back to buying them crap in the newsagent from there on in. Anyway, we try. We're all trying, aren't we, gang? We're all trying. So should we talk about Wonderful Sam? Where do you know Sam Claflin from? Because he's had an extensive, varied career. Maybe from The Hunger Games, maybe from Peaky Blinders or Pirates of the Caribbean. I mean, what a career.

2:15Fearne Cotton: Or like me, maybe you were obsessed with Daisy Jones and The Six. Oh, that show, it still lives in my heart. Sam's had a huge career and is now part of a new series called Vanished. And we talk about that and it is very, very cool. I've seen three episodes and I bloody loved it. Now, Sam has tended to keep his private life pretty private. So this was really lovely getting to know him. He was not one of those movie slash TV stars that is really cagey. Sometimes with these types of interviews, I overly prep because I'm worried that they're going to think I'm prying or they won't want to talk about their personal life.

2:55Fearne Cotton: So I've got a bunch of questions that feels a bit gentler, maybe, because I'm not an intrusive journalist interviewer. I don't want to get shit on people. I've got no interest in that. I just want to have a nice chat. But Sam is in this conversation as you're here, so open. And he actually kicked off talking about really personal things straight away. I didn't really have to tentatively move into those areas. So we talk about being a people pleaser. And again, you might think that I had brought that subject up because it's, you know, something I'm talking about a lot at the moment. But no, Sam was straight in there with that being a big issue for him.

3:30Fearne Cotton: Also, I'm really grateful that Sam, as a man who is approaching his 40s, was very open in talking about body dysmorphia and limiting food at times and pushing himself with his fitness and all the things that sometimes feel like an exclusively female-based chat. It's of course not. There are loads of men out there that have all of these issues. Hopefully some of you are listening to this now I know we have less male listeners than we do female listeners which you know maybe irks me slightly personally but but less so about my own podcast more so that men don't want to listen to women hosted podcast in general I mean that fucks me right off actually but um but we know some of you brilliant men listen so I really hope that you get a lot from this or if you're um you know friends with a guy you know who's going through something like this married to a guy who's going through something like that.

4:28Fearne Cotton: We also talk about liking yourself more. I think most of us would assume that big movie stars feel pretty confident about themselves, but you'll hear that is not quite the case with wonderful Sam. The hustle doesn't have to hurt. If performance pressure is making it hard to breathe, growth therapy helps you navigate stress, set boundaries, and actually feel like yourself again. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th, Grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability, and get started in as little as two days.

5:10Fearne Cotton: There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans, including Medicaid in some states. Sessions average about$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. Visit growththerapy.com slash start now to get started. That's growththerapy.com slash start now. growththerapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. What's up? It's Sean Linda from Two Black Guys of Good Credit.

5:47Fearne Cotton: If managed supply runs is still on your to-do list, here's your sign to upgrade. Walmart Business has the tech, tools, and services that make it ridiculously easy to stock up for your office or team. Think scheduled deliveries, multi-user accounts, and even IT setup. Bonus, with a Walmart Business Plus membership, you get free shipping, spend analytics, and 2 % rewards. Join the smart way to shop at business.walmart.com. Terms apply. Hi. Who here loves when their nails are perfectly done? Me. I'm Sarah Gibson Tuttle, and I started Olive in June because, let's be real, we all deserve to have gorgeous nails, but who wants to spend a fortune or half their day at the salon?

6:28Fearne Cotton: And that's why I created the Manny System, so you can have that salon-perfect manicure right at home. And guess what? The best part? each mani only costs$2. Yep, you heard me,$2. No more$30,$40,$50 salon trips that eat up your day. Now you can paint your nails whenever you want, wherever you want, and trust me, you're gonna be obsessed with your nails and everyone is gonna ask you, where did you get your nails done? And here's a little something extra. Head over to oliveandjune.com and get 20 % off your first mani system with code PERFECTMANI20 at oliveandjune.com slash PERFECTMANI20. That's code PERFECTMANI20 for 20 % off at olivanjune.com slash PERFECTMANI20.

7:09Fearne Cotton: You're all set for a nail glow up. Let's get those nails looking fabulous, shall we? Right, this gorgeous chat with Sam in just a moment. But first, I just want to tell you a quick thing. I want to talk about our new Happy Place edit box. It's now available. Now, if you've not heard me wanging on about these yet, you probably have. We curate these edit boxes to be filled with loads of gorgeous goodies that should be worth£100, but you can have them all for£29.99. The latest box you can get your hands on is called the Reset Box. And as with all the brilliant brands on the Happy Place market, every product in the box is both vegan and planet friendly.

7:52Fearne Cotton: Oh, I love this one so much. There's a superfood gut bar in there. There's a candle. There's tea. There's a foot mask. that's the one that I'm most looking forward to. There's a non-alcoholic cocktail, loads more. And inside the box, there's a cute little newspaper called the Happy Place Times. And that has got all the details about these brilliant small brands. Just head to happyplaceofficial.co.uk to get yours now. Go on, do it. All right, here we go. This is the show.

8:42Hello, Sam. Hello. Are you well? I am well. I think I am. I think I'm good. I think I'm good.

8:50Fearne Cotton: It's such a weird question to answer because, yes, we are fine right this second, but it could be shit in an hour. You just don't know. This is what I'm trying to learn to embrace, is the unknown. And I feel like I used to always prepare myself for the worst case scenario in everything I did. Whereas now I'm learning to embrace the chaos and just, I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. No. But it's okay. It's going to be okay. I don't like chaos. I don't like having things that aren't tied up. I don't like loose ends. I don't like being in the middle. of stuff that perturbs me greatly I think I think I'm similar uh honestly I think what I've come to realize about myself in more recent times is that I am a bit of a control freak and again I'm trying to let that go but it's impossible yeah and I think the reason being what I've put it down to is the fact that so much of my life like my career my my my job which is you know takes up a huge portion of my life is so unpredictable yeah and i have no control over i don't know where i'm gonna what job i'm doing next i don't know where i'm gonna be in a year and uh one question i used to always hate being asked during interviews was like where do you see yourself in five years i'm like i don't i have i haven't read it down but it's like i have no idea i have no idea you know also be boring to know i think so i think so i think i think the the joy is in the not knowing and trying to find the joy in their not knowing anyway and relinquishing control.

10:25I'm trying my best.

10:27Fearne Cotton: It's hard. Also, maybe just some, because I'm absolutely a control freak and I don't love that about myself. I'm aware of it and I just kind of go with it. But maybe does some of yours come from the fact that when you're playing a role, you're very much told this is who you're going to be. And I'm sure when you're working on a film or a TV show, it takes up a big portion of your brain space that you are this person, this is how this person acts. So actually outside of your life, you don't want somebody, a director or whoever, telling you this is where you ought to stand, this is how you're going to speak.

10:59I think it's the problem that I've found personally is that I've spent my entire life being other people and I don't really know who I am or I haven't, I didn't know. And I've started the process of trying to figure out who I am and what I like and what I want and making decisions rather than going, whatever you want, I'm happy to do. anything you need, anything you want, I'll, you know, I'm such a people pleaser. And again, I think I'm in the process of sort of being aware of that fact now and trying to embrace what I want and what I want and what I have to say is important. But I think, yeah, I think a lot of that stemmed from childhood probably, but has come through my work.

11:45And these are the lines that your character says. And I've always been such a stickler for other people's lines. Even without knowing it, I wince a little bit when someone gets the wrong word. And it's pathetic. You're like, I got one up on you. Yeah, you got that wrong. It's like I'm keeping score in my head. Didn't get that down. But the thing is, I learn other people's lines. Right. And so it's very bad.

12:11Fearne Cotton: I get it. Well, you're a perfectionist, right? Yes. Yeah. But again, I think that stems down to being a people pleaser and again going through drama school and kind of coming into this industry as a theatre actor and you learn that the script is like the Bible. It's gospel. So you don't change a word. You're not allowed to change a word. And I think that sort of stuck with me. Even in TV and film, you see other actors going, my character wouldn't say that. And for me, I was always like, well, your character does say that. So you have to find out why your character says that. That was the journey.

12:47Fearne Cotton: Hey, I'm a people pleaser too. You are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love being a people pleaser. Yeah, yeah. I'm breaking free. I'm breaking free. I've decided. How are you finding it? Really hard. It's really hard. Real, real hard. Because as soon as you stop people pleasing, you know, I've talked about this so much recently. I've just written a whole book about it, which my listener is going to be like, stop talking about the fucking book. I want to hear about it. Okay, I'll send you the book. But I am, I'm not just sitting here promoting the book in Sam's time. I it's been just I've had to write this book it's been so cathartic it's called a likeable and it's all about how we shape shift to not rock the boat so as soon as you decide I don't want to be a people pleaser anymore or I'm certainly going to experiment with not being one you start pissing people off that's the nature of it yeah they're not used to you acting in in that way like having a voice yeah and again I think that was one of the reasons I got into acting is that I got so used to people pleasing my parents you know uh even to a point that i think i was oh this is this is easy i can shape shift whoever you want me to be today and tomorrow i can be that person but then you do lose a sense of identity and then there's a part of you which is what i've learned is that you hold some sort of resentment for the fact that people are changing of course but then but again i've lost sight of who i was i lost sight of who i was to such a degree that i don't know why i was being resentful anymore because yeah it was just who i was my my personality was that i was a people pleaser it always ends in resentment there's no way out of that one there's no way to do it and it's bad it's really bad the thing is though what i would say is i think it's a good bad quality to have it's you know maybe controversial thing to say but i think find yourself someone who enjoys you being a people pleaser but but equally is trying to you know because i think it's a good I don't think it's a completely bad quality.

14:41I think there are selfish aspects of it as a quality of oneself. But I definitely feel like there are worse traits. Without a doubt.

14:51Fearne Cotton: And especially, I don't know, because when I was doing like drama club at the weekends and dance school and that kind of thing, I wanted to get into this industry. I didn't know which avenue. I was kind of like, I'll do whatever. But I'd go to tons of auditions. And we were very much taught. And this is not like a fancy stage school. It's like in a church hall. But we were very much taught when you walk into a room, you know, you make eye contact, you say hello to the person, you say your name, you know, you act with confidence and you bring a sort of a pleasing energy into the room. Because, of course, you're there to impress them and to get noticed.

15:25Fearne Cotton: And I think being a people pleaser in my line of work, in your line of work, does serve you well because people want to work with people that are easy to rub along with. They don't want to work with people that are causing a fast, you know, and there's plenty of them in your industry. Yeah, apparently. I don't feel like I've ever met one. The problem is because I adapt myself to meet. You know, I'll get in a cab, a black cab and I'll start talking with, oh, yeah, I'll just just go down, go down the right. It's your next left. And then and then I'll sort of be on the phone to a lawyer or something and immediately sort of sound posher.

16:00So it's a real, but I've realized that I thought I was doing it for a long time. I thought I was doing it to make the other person comfortable. But also I think it's more, I was trying to make myself comfortable in the situation. I want to feel like I fit in. And that obviously stems from a childhood where you didn't quite necessarily feel like you were fitting the norm or whatever. But yeah, it's a really interesting topic, I have to say. And I've done an endless amount of reading about it. But now it's a matter of putting those things, those teachings into practice and living what you preach.

16:39Yes. Easier said than done. That's the difficult part.

16:42Fearne Cotton: I think it's a life's work. I'm pretty sure I'll be thinking about it until I'm hopefully an old lady. Because it's just something that you have to keep. It's like a muscle. You have to flex and keep practicing. I think it's having an awareness. Even if you make, be it people pleasing or be it anything. I think as long as you're aware of said behavior, then even if it's in the aftermath, I think it's okay. People make mistakes and, you know, I'm going to slip up many times. Of course. But yeah. I think it's really refreshing hearing. I think a lot of us would think, okay, a very successful actor would have this burst in confidence whenever they're approaching any situation, work or not.

17:20Fearne Cotton: But actually, I think when you're a people pleaser, that usually is a bit of a sign that you're not feeling particularly confident to just turn up as yourself and be yourself in any given circumstance. I'm incredibly insecure. I just went to a screening of a film I was in and everyone immediately afterwards, the director, producers, how was it? I was like, I hated it. And it's my face I don't like. I don't like me. I've seen you talk about this before. What is this? I have like a form of body dysmorphia, I think. And I think that may have stemmed from my being a teenager and hitting puberty late and not feeling like I was good looking or too short or not strong enough.

18:03I mean, I remember a PE class specifically where I couldn't do a pull up, you know, when everyone else in my year was doing pull ups. And I just felt incredibly embarrassed. So I think it sort of stemmed from that, but also being in the industry that I'm in, especially now the entire world has the opportunity to have their opinion. I think, yeah, it really affects you. And a lot of the roles I played earlier on in my career, I had like a topless scene in one of my first movies, but wasn't told, it wasn't in the script. And I got told like a week before they were going to take my top off. And I was like, shit, I haven't been working out.

18:39Like, what am I going to do? this is like my first introduction to the world yeah yeah i think i think it's i've been massively affected by it and i think uh i'd say most guys are that i've spoken to anyway in some degree but mine got quite bad yeah in what way like how does that manifest then that you you're talking

18:59Fearne Cotton: shit about yourself in your head or you're pushing yourself to work out further how does that turn I think for me, I really overthink everything. So, you know, I won't skip meals. I don't eat breakfast. I have like a juice in the morning and I work out doubly hard if I've had a bad meal the night before. And I try not to drink as much alcohol anymore. I try to get as much sleep, but it's because I'm overthinking. I don't do that so much. it's a yeah it's it's a real it's a real struggle it's like an everyday struggle um and again i think that's part and parcel being like an actor with the sort of career that i had specifically you know and and also being massively affected by what other people think the people pleasing thing seeps back in yeah uh you just immediately it bothers me that people might not like me or might not think I'm a nice person or whatever it is, or might not look good.

19:55And again, I'm sort of in the process of working through that and being aware of it, trying to embrace it. But it's a challenge.

20:05Fearne Cotton: It is hard, especially with the job that you have, because whatever you're working on, it's all eyes on you at the end of it. And you want to feel proud of what you've done and you want to have your own back in a situation like that where everyone's got opinion about you. You know, I'm not particularly good even with what I do if people are giving me shit about something that I initially thought, oh, I stand by this. I believe in this. It can sway my mind somewhat. I don't like that. With the mental mindset that you find yourself in with, whether it is not eating breakfast, working out doubly hard, not eating whatever you want when you fancy it, do you want that to change?

20:48Fearne Cotton: or are you like this is just how it has to be at the moment? I've always praised my discipline. I think it's something I inherited from a very early age that me and my brother, we're from a working class family. Me and my brothers have all been working since we were 13 years old as paper boys. I've just never known not to work. So I feel like even if I'm not filming something on a day, I'm still working like it's part of my job and I don't mind it I'm not miserable by any means I'm very happy and especially now I think as I've kind of got older and I'm sort of people try to wind me up that I'm nearly 40 I don't care like I think well it's a good thing oh 40's a great by the way I feel more healthy and and happy now than I did through my 20s and my 30s.

21:49Oh, yeah. The majority of my 30s. I feel like I know better who I am. And now I'm a dad. I like embrace that role with all of me, you know, and I think I was born to be a nurturer, like to look after people and to make sure other people are okay and to be a host. And so having kids is sort of giving me my life's purpose, I feel. And I'd love to have more. I'd love to, you know, just sort of spread that love because I think that's what I was made for. That's what I believe. And I think I believed that when I was a kid. So the acting is great. I love the acting. I love my job. I love what I do. But I also just love being a dad and a parent and being able to sort of go through this process as a parent.

22:37And my kids are 10 and 8 now. and being able to kind of share what I'm learning currently with them and then having them talk to me about their fears and about their insecurities. I'm like, wow. And now I know how to deal with that rather than saying we don't talk about our emotions. We don't, we shy. It's kind of, it's a real blessing. And I feel like, you know, again, I know I speak on behalf of most men across the world, actually in my generation that were taught that to be a man you don't you don't cry you don't you don't speak about your emotions or say I love you or I'm proud of you and I think that affected me more than I had hoped maybe and I have two very loving parents very supportive parents but I think for me I am very sensitive and I can see my my little boy for example is very sensitive and having that dialogue with him is really life-changing.

23:35Fearne Cotton: Yeah, it is interesting because I think, you know, throwing no shade on that generation, my parents, your parents, it wasn't necessarily the done thing to sit and talk about how you're feeling and your emotions and what you're going through. It's like you just crack on with things. And a lot of the time, you know, I'm from a working-class family. You know, my parents were both out of work and there wasn't time to have those sorts of deep chats and discuss, you know, how you were coping with certain situations, How do you approach things with your kids now? Because, you know, my kids are 10 and 13.

24:04Fearne Cotton: And so I'm sort of like looking at some very tricky conversations to be having. And, you know, my son who's 13, it's like, am I having the consent chat now? Like we're the first generation going, when are we having these chats? And sometimes I feel ill-equipped or I'm not quite sure how to approach these sorts of subjects. It's a tricky one. It's really tricky, especially because of, you know, the access that kids have to the internet now that we didn't really have. Our generation was almost the last generation without the internet. Well, I was like 15, 16. So in my like the deep, deep, deep into my teens when MSN Messenger came up and chat rooms.

24:44And we didn't really understand the sort of dangers of the internet. And now kids, I've taken a massive step back on social media. You've deleted your Instagram. Yeah, I have.

24:58Fearne Cotton: I went on, because, you know, as part of my thorough research, I like to look on YouTube and then I'll read some articles and then we'll get to Vanished in a minute. Watched three episodes, fucking loved it. But I'll do a whole deep dive. So I was like, oh, let's see what you've been up to on Instagram. There's nothing there. Yeah, I think I just hit a point. it was it was about summer of last year and i felt where i started sort of slowly deleting you know posts that i'd posted in 2016 it's like still having your myspace page yeah in many ways it's like well i'm not the same person i was when i first joined instagram so like why is that why should that be available these images of of me like cooking i think my first picture was a picture of a chicken and asparagus that's very early instagram content oh yeah this is what i did today avocado on toast yes i don't know why people need access to this and so then i sort of peeled back and sort of left like 15 photos more recent photos and i was like do you know what i'm gonna just start the new year and start fresh and i was like i'll post when i want to post something but I don't feel compelled to yet.

26:11And it's also made me stop going on Instagram full stop and just doom scrolling. And again, I don't want my kids to be watching me on my iPhone all the time. And so I've just started veering off and trying to be more present, I think. I never got into TikTok. That was never really my...

26:33Fearne Cotton: I think we're too old. Yeah, I feel like it's not for me. I feel like Instagram is the same as TikTok. Instagram I feel like I can handle I can cope with it TikTok I opened it once and I was I had I was just like what's going on what's these videos are just coming at me I couldn't control it I've never had TikTok again if that's your thing zero judgment for me couldn't give a toss but Instagram I feel like I can cope with but I hear you because I think it's the ultimate distraction and also I think in a job like ours where you can go and quickly get a dopamine hit a validation from people liking a project you're working on you know you can do that in a harmless kind of i'm just checking things out way but i've certainly found myself like looking for the bad comments what's who's the one person who hates this episode or whatever you know it's not a great habit but that's but again i think that is it for me i again i think in this this past year i've done a lot of soul searching and what i've come to realize about myself is that i always was seeking reassurance from other people i wanted to be loved um so you know i i just i was seeking it in the wrong places rather than looking in the mirror and going hey man you're loved it's okay uh or my looking at my kids and saying you know i'm loved that's that's enough i don't know why what bianca from i'm immediately thinking bianca for patsy but i don't know it doesn't matter what someone from across the world who i've never met thinks about me because I feel bad about myself so it was more about not seeking that that kind of reassurance and that that attention and that love from external places and and trying to rectify my relationship with myself trying to like yourself yeah very tricky yeah not many people have mastered that one no but it should be because we're the only relationship that will last forever Right, so we're a few weeks into the new year.

28:32Fearne Cotton: I wonder if you felt the desire to check in with yourself and have a little look at your well-being habits. Not in a pressured way, absolutely no need for perfection. Just a chance to think about what might help keep us calm, content and healthy in 2026. Well, this part of the show is brought to you by Audible, where you can find all the wellness hacks and guidance you might need for the new year and beyond. wellness is a tricky subject look it's become an important part of my life over the years not in a shiny all or nothing way and it's not necessarily regimented or based in things that are traditionally classed as wellness but I do think it's important for all of us to prioritize ourselves where we can especially while juggling work and family life and also our mental health I've learned that it's definitely about the small consistent habits that make a huge difference.

29:31So there are a few things

29:33Fearne Cotton: that are supporting me at the moment. One of them is trying new things and trying new things to move my body because we can all get stuck in a rut of not exercising or exercising in one specific way too much or feeling utterly bored at the thought of exercising. So I'm trying to do things that don't feel like exercise. So like one walk with a friend once a week. Also I've started boxing with my son which feels like a really nice bit of bonding but also a fun way to exercise. And ice skating. Now that one's going to be short-lived as the spring months approach but for now I'm making the most of all the post-Christmas ice skating rinks and I'm just loving it.

30:17Fearne Cotton: It's so carefree and so much fun. Also for me eating well is imperative. Having had problems in that area in my 20s I really need to make sure that I'm enjoying cooking, trying new things, new dishes, new foods and eating foods that's going to really support me so I can feel energized throughout my day with the kids and running around at work. Also writing stuff down. I'm very lucky that I get to write books so I sometimes get to vent there but also just for me privately me and my daughter have started together writing a worry journal before bed and that might sound like I'm encouraging her to worry but looking at a lot of studies especially in I think there was a Finnish study on this one lots of Finnish kids do this with their parents they write down their worries before bed things that have stressed them out in the day things they're worrying about things they might be scared about at night time and getting pen to paper that's helping me and my daughter immensely with trying to switch off before we go to sleep because if you're not sleeping well which I have not for a long time really impacts every bit of our own general well-being but even with my current well-being rituals in place I always feel the new year is a nice opportunity to explore new things.

31:38Fearne Cotton: I think the big one for me this year is trying to slow down. It's maybe not a ritual, or maybe I could incorporate rituals into that thinking, you know, a nice hot bath, a moment where I read a book and I actually put my phone in another room, moments where I properly let my nervous system recalibrate and I just slow the hell down. I think that for me feels like a good healthy move in the right direction it's going to be different for everybody yours might be the absolute opposite of that but for me as a bit of a speed demon and someone that can be too urgent with everything slowing down feels immensely important another thing that really helps me stay inspired on my well-being journey is listening and learning from other people which is obviously why I love doing my podcast happy place so much audible is such a brilliant place to do exactly that.

32:34Fearne Cotton: They've got audiobooks, they've got podcasts, thoughtful conversations around mental health, mindfulness, food and self-growth, whatever it is that you might be looking for. And my mate Jamie Oliver, he was on Happy Place a few years ago actually, he's got a new podcast called Reset Your Health. That's exclusive to Audible. He speaks to experts who really cut through the noise and make well-being feel accessible and doable. He's uncovering the mysteries of the gut, the impact that chewing soft foods versus crunchy has on our health, and even learning how to protect the brain as we age. That's just one place to start on Audible if you want to get your fix of wellness content.

33:15Fearne Cotton: Visit audible.co.uk to find your wellness today. See audible.co.uk for terms. What's up? It's Sean Linda from Two Black Guys of Good Credit. If managed supply runs is still on your to-do list, here's your sign to upgrade. Walmart Business has the tech, tools, and services that make it ridiculously easy to stock up for your office or team. Think scheduled deliveries, multi-user accounts, and even IT setup. Bonus! With a Walmart Business Plus membership, you get free shipping, spend analytics, and 2 % rewards. Join the smart way to shop at business.walmart.com. Terms apply. The hustle doesn't have to hurt.

33:55Fearne Cotton: If performance pressure is making it hard to breathe, Grow Therapy helps you navigate stress, set boundaries, and actually feel like yourself again. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th, Grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability, and get started in as little as two days. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans, including Medicaid in some states.

34:34Fearne Cotton: Sessions average about$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. Visit growtherapy.com slash start now to get started. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan you know what's wild most people are still overpaying for car insurance just because it's a pain to switch that's why there's Jerry Jerry's the only app that compares rates from over 50 insurers in minutes and helps you switch fast with no spam calls or hidden fees drivers who save with Jerry could save over $1 ,300 a year before you renew your car insurance policy do yourself a favor Download the Jerry app or head to jerry.ai slash a cast.

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35:39Fearne Cotton: It's such a hard one. Yeah. Because we're sort of conditioned from, I don't know, what age it might begin, probably when we go to school. that we've got things wrong. You are, you've done it wrong. You are wrong. You're bad. And that's where I think it all starts to mess with our psyche that we're questioning are we a good or a bad person and we need someone else to tell us that we're doing okay. Everything we're doing is meant to be the way that we're doing it. I think, and again, this is a lesson I'm trying to get through to my kids is that it's okay to make mistakes. And yeah, fine, I might be disappointed in something you've done, but it's okay as long as you learn from this mistake yeah yeah and fine you might make the same mistake twice but please don't make it third time yeah i think i think it's it's just sort of embracing the learning and the education and and you said it yourself so we never really stop learning we'll we'll always we'll always be trying to perfect well hopefully people should be trying to perfect themselves or better themselves or grow to evolve and i think again it's i i've always been a perfectionist and I've always been sort of found myself sort of polishing little things and actually rather than going wait I feel like there's a deep rooted problem there's a bigger problem that I haven't I've just been kind of glazing over just completely pushed under the rug and sort of now I'm attacking those parts of myself I think I'm I'm getting more out of it yeah what's that soul searching look like what what are you doing to kind of get to know yourself like yourself better now it's it's a matter of just being present uh like being with the people i love and again sort of not disappearing into the internet and and doom scrolling and things that i don't know i just feel like the more i spend time with the people i love friends family and you know i'm kind of going through certain things at home that that needs my attention and needs me here to be more present and it's it's it's been a wake-up call like i think life is sort of very fragile and i think the past sort of few months whilst i was going going through this soul searching i was burying my heads in books you know i started meditating i was trying and and then i sort of found a kind of comfort in that and then i was throwing myself into the gym but not in a very different way to my relationship with the gym is very different to how it used to be and and also not calorie counting and and not missing meals and yeah i think i think it's as i said now i feel like i've i've spent like a whole year i considering i never really read books i must have read like on average three or four books a month last year it was just something i set for myself as i want to get through books um and i shared them all on my instagram this is what i'm reading and then i thought what a pretentious what a pretentious idiot i just stopped it stopped in december i was like no i don't know i mean i'm intrigued what what books stand out as ones that genuinely helped you that were a bit of a pivot for you the biggest one for me was a book called the origins of you don't know this and that really opened up who i was and what made me me and what got me to where I am and it's sort of it's so funny because my dad my dad saw me reading this book he's like what are you what are you reading I never see you reading I was like well I'm reading a book called The Origins of You he's like what's that about I said well it's about childhood trauma it's like what no no it's not about like you traumatize me it's just about it's about different wounds you have as a kid but it just sort of explained so much to me and in the end I kind And I called my mom afterwards and was like, I now understand that you did everything you could.

39:30None of this is your fault. Like, I'm not blaming you. I'm just saying, I just wanted to explain my observation, what I, you know, in reflection of my childhood, what I think happened for me and why I think I've ended up this way. You know, I felt really broken. Last year was a really difficult, really difficult year for me mentally and emotionally. Like at the beginning of the year, I was crying constantly. And this book just sort of, I'll never forget reading it. I was talking to my friend in the gym and I just started sobbing.

40:05Uncontrollably, to the point where I had to go to the toilet. He's like, please go to the toilet. Yeah, I love it. This is the best. I love it. I was like, I don't know what's happening. I don't know what's happening. And it just really unlocked something. So that book has really, and that was a book, because I'd posted a couple of months of reads that I'd had. This woman, she reached out to me and said, hey, I've just written a book and a couple of the people whose books you've read are friends of mine, I'd like to send you a copy. So it was a complete curveball and I read it and it really unlocked something.

40:40Then there's Michael A. Singer's The Untethered Song. Oh, what a great book. which I think it's the the the I think it's the penultimate chapter where he talks about death and why do we wait for death to come before we start living and it's like a really beautiful way I think of of thinking about life and like why why is that so just kind of questioned the way that I see the world a lot yeah so I think I think it's been a transformative year yeah exciting good it is it's i feel excited yeah i feel very proud and i feel very yeah um i feel very i feel really good and it's very rare for me to say i feel good i think that's great often the result of being in

41:28Fearne Cotton: a very low state is there's got to be something else and you start to look at life differently because if you get to that point of ultimate surrender, which I've most definitely done, you get to that point and you think, fuck it. Well, I don't have to live life. I can change the rules. I don't have to see life in this framework that I've based everything on because I think when you feel that low or broken or the floodgates open and you start actually looking at everything that's bugged you or plagued you or whatever it might be, the only way is up. And it might be real slow and incremental, but it's definitely not going to get any worse.

42:06No.

42:07Fearne Cotton: And that's an exciting place to be. And the thing is, everyone's low is different to the next person. I think that that's something because I think I think I I always had in my mind or there were people worse off. There are people worse off. So I can't like. We're just gaslighting yourself. Yeah. I'm not allowed to suffer because this person's had X, Y and Z happen to him. but for me my I just I just think I lost myself completely and I made some stupid choices but because I was sort of overwhelmed and stressed and I was dealing with because my people pleasing got to such a degree that I didn't have any time or space for myself and I was I was just so depleted I was so exhausted and and and I I needed to ask someone for help and I didn't know how to ask anyone for help.

42:56And I didn't have a therapist at the time. And I was just, I just felt so isolated. Like no one really saw me. And so I kind of just pushed everyone away. Everyone, like just ended like, but what felt like I ended all my relationships with everyone and just went, I need to hide for a month. And then out of that, that kind of darkness came, yeah, like a, like a, as I say, a transformative chapter, which has been amazing. because I'm grateful for the darkness, I think.

43:26Fearne Cotton: Have you read Wintering? No. That's very good. She is called Catherine May. And it's all about those periods where you go, I'm shutting out the world. And it's a very natural thing for us to do, but we think we've got to keep pushing. I'm going to be on my A game 12 months of the year. Every bloody day I'm going to show up and be perfect. And it's not possible for any of us to do that. and actually those periods where we winter and we hunker down and we say i'm going to shut the world out whether it's quite literally or metaphorically is then our chance to go okay right i'm going to start to look at everything and then i can rebuild myself to get ready to do the spring bit and well i think i think it's it's that's exactly right like the only the other day i i just i had a real uh difficult day i had i don't know it's just one of those days where everything kind of did went wrong like and i say that because i think what i allowed was for the first thing to go wrong in the morning to really affect me yeah and i rather than just going it's okay like breathe it's okay like my life is over yeah i just i do because i was sort of then angry then the next thing kind of messed up and then and i was just sort of not thinking straight and they got to the end of the day i went what a waste of a day yes and then i was angry at myself and i I think just forgiveness is so key.

44:51And just going, do you know what? It was a bad day. But tomorrow is a new day. And it's like we put that behind us and we'll move forward with fresh start, new slate. I wish I'd done that after the first little mishap. That's the problem. Yeah.

45:05Fearne Cotton: I do it all the time. I write a day off because of one thing. You're like, well, this day is fucked. It's just dead to me. It's done. And then everything is shit. Well, it's the age old saying of like, I got out of the wrong side of the bed. It is. But it happens to the best of us. But I think it is just a matter of letting go, let go. Yeah, it's so important. Do you think, because this is a weird career that you're in, in terms of, you know, you've got to have a solid skill set, but you've also got to be able to deal with rejection, outside commentary. There's lots of unusual parts to it that you have to sort of be able to rally alongside.

45:46Fearne Cotton: well forever as long as you want to be in their career do you think that you've built up a resilience a thicker skin because of it i think again i think i think i had three brothers growing up so i think i think i had sort of resilience and and the kind of competitive nature from a young age like vying for attention and vying for for to win everything you know and that's the thing i think that was my way of because i was a third so my two older brothers were incredibly intelligent um didn't have to try hard they were just really clever and i wasn't clever and i was very sensitive and i i would try and try and try to get noticed you know so we all played football growing up and my my two older brothers were probably better than me and gave up they were just i don't really want to do this anymore i was i'll keep going i'll go as far as i can and i'd injure myself and yes so i think it was it was instilled in me from a young age because i i had to have a thick skin to sort of keep up and again i think being working class like there's a certain amount of thick skin you have to you're used to rejection in many ways anyway and then i think i think the acting thing is just i don't know i've never known not to work hard and you know even when i was at drama school i i was basically a caretaker at the drama school because i couldn't afford to live in london so i was you know drama school like nine to nine uh and then all the holidays and weekends i was at the drama school painting rooms or buffering the floors or sorting out the attic or whatever it was it i just i've never known not to work so for me the the the thing that i think i struggle with most about the industry is the not working and the kind of switching off um not good at relaxing yeah i can't relax and i think anyone who's uh been close to me will be able to, will be the first to point that out.

47:38Fearne Cotton: Is that a fear that it's all going to go? Oh yeah, I definitely had and still have, I think, imposter syndrome. Like I don't really belong here, I'm not very good. I think there's an element that, I think it's good because it makes me work hard, I think. But there is definitely a fear of this is the last job I'll do. You know, and it's terrifying. For sure. I think at the same time, I'm now at a place where I feel like there will still be something that I could do. I don't think my career would end with one job necessarily. It would be like I'd peter out. Maybe it's all put me on some really obscure, like straight to DVD movie type thing first, you know, and I'd still be able to claw some money somehow for a little while anyway.

48:30So I don't feel like it's going to end tomorrow now, but I definitely feel like it could end.

48:34Fearne Cotton: I feel the same. I don't think that, of course. Christ, yes. It's harder for you. I feel like if you, and the same for actors as well. I feel like if you say, like the cancel culture being what it is, saying one thing can completely ruin your life. I think it's terrifying. It's terrifying. But I also just think, because there's great competition out there and especially, you know, podcasting, I obviously do other stuff, But even in the podcasting arena, the competition is now so fierce. And I'm a competitive person to a degree. There's also part of me that's like, I just want to enjoy it and go home and then have a normal life.

49:14Fearne Cotton: I can't give it my all anymore because I've got kids. I'm at a certain age where I'm not in my early 20s where this can be my absolute everything. But there are people out there where it is. So that's slightly terrifying. I mean, the industry you're in, I only ever get outside glimpses of what it could be like. But you can see, you know, at the moment we're in awards season. So the Oscars are looming. We've already got a few award shows behind us. And I'm sat there watching it on TV, imagining that to be one of those people who's even nominated for an award of that degree, you've got to be ruthless, I want to say.

49:54Fearne Cotton: I don't know if that's the right word, but it seems ruthless to get to the top, top, top of like Academy Award winning acting. There's got to be a bit of you that is absolutely all in ruthless. I think you're right. I'd say I'd say 90 percent sure like that that is the case. Though there's obviously the odd performance or the odd person that might seep through the cracks and kind of just be going, I wasn't expecting this. But I think rarely, very rarely. And I think similar to yourself, I think especially since I became a dad. And I think it's also entering a stage in my life. I remember doing a job a few years back.

50:36And I remember one of the actresses sort of said, can we meet to run lines tonight? And I was like, yeah, sure. so we went and met in this this sort of cafe and lo and behold loads of the younger cast who were like playing you know these dude all in their early 20s were all in the same cafe or this bar i was oh hey you know how are you guys how are you enjoying your time i haven't seen much of you guys and this is i've been filming every single day right so i barely had a you know barely had like any time to myself anyway and i sort of was hearing all the gossip that was happening behind the scene off you know off camera and like they were all going out and in the evenings and going out for dinners and this person had hooked up with this and i was like why wasn't i invited you're the old guy they were like well we just we didn't want to bother you i was like alice because i'm old now I'm like not the young kid anymore and I had this sudden like shit like my life is just sort of flashed before me because I think for like 10 years I used to be on newcomers we were the young people but I was still on a newcomers list when I was in my 30s I've been doing this for 15 years but now it's changed and I think I've embraced this change and kind of gone I'm more experienced than a lot of people on this film set now and I'm like I can have fun and I feel like there's less pressure.

52:03I have less reason to sort of make an impression in a sense. I feel like people now cast me because of previous work and I'd have to audition. That's definitely helped me in many ways to sort of enjoy my work. And looking back at a lot of old performances, a lot of old jobs that I did at the beginning of my career, I wish I could redo them and just have fun. Oh, God, don't we all? I just wish I could redo that again and just enjoy it. like not take myself so seriously.

52:33Fearne Cotton: But I think you can only start really enjoying, you know what, I'm going to name drop here, but when we had Jon Bon Jovi on, he said the exact thing about literally the whole of his career that he wished he'd enjoyed it all more. But when you're in it, of course, and especially right at the start of any career, when you're lacking experience, you don't have that comfort of enjoying it because you're just hoping that you can do a good enough job. So I guess maybe the enjoyment is a natural progression of, I know what I'm doing now. I'm not having to, you know, I could not have done a conversation in a relaxed manner and enjoyed it in my 20s.

53:05Fearne Cotton: I would have been panicking internally, constantly. So maybe I think that's the enjoyment is almost hard one, I think, to an extent. The hustle doesn't have to hurt. If performance pressure is making it hard to breathe, Grow Therapy helps you navigate stress, set boundaries and actually feel like yourself again. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th, Grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability, and get started in as little as two days. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

53:44Fearne Cotton: You just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans, including Medicaid in some states. Sessions average about$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. Visit growtherapy.com slash start now to get started. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. What's up? It's Sean Linda from Two Black Guys of Good Credit. If managed supply runs is still on your to-do list, here's your science upgrade.

54:24Fearne Cotton: Walmart Business has the tech, tools, and services that make it ridiculously easy to stock up for your office or team. Think scheduled deliveries, multi-user accounts, and even IT setup. Bonus, with a Walmart Business Plus membership, you get free shipping, spend analytics, and 2 % rewards. Join the smart way to shop at business.walmart.com. Terms apply. You know what's wild? Most people are still overpaying for car insurance, just because it's a pain to switch. That's why there's Jerry. Jerry's the only app that compares rates from over 50 insurers in minutes and helps you switch fast with no spam calls or hidden fees.

55:01Fearne Cotton: Drivers who save with Jerry could save over$1 ,300 a year. Before you renew your car insurance policy, do yourself a favor. Download the Jerry app or head to jerry.ai.acast.

55:15Fearne Cotton: Looking back at some of your performances, I was a huge fan of Daisy Jones and the Six. I devoured the book. I loved the TV adaptation. I was so glad that it was done so well because I think there were so many fanatical reader fans who were just praying, please let this be good. And it just delivered so perfectly. But I'm sure for you, a terrifying role, not only because you've got the book fans there, but also you're playing guitar, you're singing. That's something entirely new for you. yeah i i think over more recently over the last few years i've tried to do things out of my comfort zone um and that was definitely massively out of my comfort zone i like i'd done a bit of singing in musical theater and stuff growing up but not anything professional i've never been like trained really and so yeah that that was the first time i'd ever been in a recording studio when when i auditioned for that role but yeah the american accent and then guitar i'd never picked up a guitar in my life that's wild well we were fortunate and and you know I've heard so many people talk about covid being either a really good time or a really bad time and I was I was blessed with with a difficult time but like one that coming out of the other end of it I was like so grateful for because originally we only had like four weeks to to prepare and I'd never played guitar I you know was technically kind of overweight for the role not in my words this in words that were given to me.

56:47Fearne Cotton: You were playing a skinny rock star. Yes, in the 70s. None of the mates. I was not in that place to begin with. My hair was like almost a shaved head at the time. I hadn't really ever done an American accent bar. One of my early jobs, but I don't think I did that very well. So yeah, there was a lot to take on and we were blessed for like a year and a half because of COVID. so I was able to learn guitar at least the basics and and learn the songs and work with a singing coach and practice the dialect and work out you know every day and so it was a real blessing and so by the time we got to that set I hadn't really thought about the pressure of it so much just I think we were all desperate to get to work yeah and and it was it was just the most glorious like magical experience.

57:42I'm so glad. The cast, we all gelled so well.

57:46Fearne Cotton: Riley, we had Riley on here and I could not believe how grounded and completely normal she was. I know that's such a cliche, but with her background, she was truly normal. I think there is a couple of moments, I hope she doesn't mind me saying, I won't say the full story, but there's a couple of moments where we'd sort of mention somebody, you know, this funny story about this person and she'd be like oh yeah that that guy was my my mum's boyfriend for like a month and and we're like oh my god this is you know it was and again i remember sitting on set with her and hearing l and elvis presley song come on the the the sort of tannoy and going that was your granddad's like that is it's it's it's batshit but she is the she is honestly one of my favorite I would say my favourite co-star I've ever worked with like she is just genuinely one of my favourite people oh you guys were so good together I need to re-watch the whole thing it's been long enough now for me to go back and just re-watch it I haven't watched it since the beginning like since it came I think before it came out it was just pure joy I loved everything about it and let's talk about Vanished because I got a sneaky peek of the first three episodes and was so stressed watching it literally on the edge of my seat But without giving away too much, because people listening to this may not have seen even episode one, your character, all we can say really is complicated.

59:11Fearne Cotton: And I'm only three eps in. So I can't see how this is going to unfold at this point. Yeah. It's hard to talk about. It's one of those ones that's hard to talk about because I think there's so many twists and turns that by talking about one twist, you immediately give away the game. But it is a thriller. so it's very thrilling it's a real rollercoaster ride I'm actually seeing it tonight for the first time I haven't seen it I've seen it and you haven't no crikey okay great they did send me a link but I just my daughter was sick so I was like that and also you hate looking at yourself on a screen there is that there is that but it was again one of those real joys to work on and we shot it out in Marseille the story of this this couple kind of travelling through Europe or meeting in Europe with a view to sort of traveling to Marseille and then he vanishes on a train.

1:00:05And then she sort of, yeah, tries to do detective work and find out where he is and who he is. Yes. And I think that's probably as much as I can say. I think so. But it's, yeah, it was a real interesting role to play because there were so many sort of sides to him. Like to the point where I remember asking, speaking to the writer Preston, I was like, but is he really? like a secret agent or you know is he really a clown what yeah he's complicated who is he who is he but yeah it was a lot of fun to play that you know to play the many hats of a man

1:00:44Fearne Cotton: yeah I bet it's great and also to have something that you know people are going to be talking about this show in terms of what's going to happen next or what people assume might happen next I mean you hope so I think the cliffhangers are there good good they definitely were there in the script but I think again I try not to listen to the noise because of the you know you could read 10 good reviews and one bad one or mediocre one will be the one that sits with you so I try to just sort of I do my job and then I just look towards the next job but I'm excited to see it put it that way and I'm excited to see I think I see Kaley Cuoco in New York soon so yeah it was great to see her playing a role like that because we know her as a comedian and this is the thing that there's sort of elements of comedy yeah yeah in in this and i think it's sort of the first episode sort of sets it up to be a bit bit of a rom-com yeah yeah and it just takes a turn and i think that that that was what kind of interested me because it's definitely an avenue i i want to venture into again there's something i haven't tackled for a while which is like a romantic comedy and something with a bit more lightness um yeah and so this this kind of gave me a little a little taster of that again which was nice good so obviously you've wrapped on that because we're seeing it very soon you've just wrapped on another film that you've just been at a screening at are you in the middle of filming anything now are you planning to take a break i so i did i just finished a film called f-a-s-t um which is a new taylor sheridan written I guess you could say action thriller movie which was a lot of fun for me a very very different role and something to kind of get my teeth stuck into it got very bloodied up so that was it was a lot of guns and you know it was very very unlike me and anything I've done so it was I had like a blast and they say the right things happen when you stop looking and I think yeah I wasn't really looking for anything and it just sort of fell into my lap and I was I was over the moon and then since that finished in the end of november i was like i don't want to work for a little while i want to spend some time at home with the kids um but then something came up which was a chris like they're doing a new a christmas carol but called ebenezer it's my favorite story with uh johnny depp playing scrooge and so i'm sort of i've been reunited with johnny um i'm doing a like a little part in that which is very exciting and that's just shooting around this area around London the UK and it's just a few days of work so it's not nothing too strenuous I can't wait to see that it's the story that keeps giving every adaptation I see or if I've seen it at the Old Vic Theatre I saw Risa Phan's play Scrooge it's the best what?

1:03:28Risa Phan? it was a long while back

1:03:30Fearne Cotton: it was at the Old Vic and it was maybe 10 years ago the stage production and it was it's just the best story someone was telling me about this stage production only the other day and said that they do it every year with a different actor it's incredible I've never seen it. You must go. It's the most Christmassy thing you'll ever experience. And it's old, sort of, it's old-fashioned London Christmas. It's so good. Is there songs? Songs, there's bells, there's fake snow. It's honestly, it's the greatest thing. Well, I don't know. I just saw Paddington. Oh, I need to see that. Oh, my God. I've heard nothing but good things.

1:04:04I cried, like, I think four times. And it's fun. it's like I love it promoting Paddington but we took my daughter for her birthday and it genuinely is the greatest thing I've seen it on stage in a long time really it's so fun the music is amazing yeah Tom Fletcher has all the music he's so clever it's so good I could not sing more be more praiseful of it I've got to go and see it it's just wonderful and the kids adored it things fall from the sky and oh god yeah really like choked me up numerous times and and the fact that there's this person playing the bear and the movements and the way they sing the song with the bear moving its mouth it's just remarkable okay it really is magic i'm doing it it's on my list yeah i'm gonna go see it hey sam clufflin where's your happy place um with my favorite people i don't it could be anywhere really i i think my kids i i got asked in a therapy session actually to go to my happy place what was my happy place and i said it was it was in bed in my bed that could be in any house in any hotel room and i don't care where it is just my bed with the kids in it in but you know that moment because my my kids still occasionally climb into bed with me and there's that moment when i'm still kind of awake but like in bed reading or whatever and uh my daughter and son they'll kind of come in a real sleepy stupor you know they're like they're not really awake but they're not asleep zombie state and they start asking questions and they're really talkative and they come up with the most bizarre thoughts they obviously just had a dream and so they want to question that that moment is is like my favorite thing and favorite place and favorite time it's that that yeah the sleepy stupor with my kids in bed is just uh magic that's so lovely we're also compiling a

1:06:11Fearne Cotton: happy place playlist of songs that doesn't have to be a song that makes you happy necessarily but just a song that you would put on your happy place playlist what might that be oh that's a that's a i know i don't know how to answer it i'm i'm still i need a month to figure there's too many options Too many good songs. I tell you, and only because it's too obvious, I feel, Happy by Pharrell Williams. And it's so obvious, but someone, because someone asked me to play a song, an upbeat song, and that was the first thing that came to my head only the other day. That wouldn't be my one choice. I can have a think about it.

1:06:48But that is just the top of my head.

1:06:51Fearne Cotton: Yeah, it's a good vibe song. I mean, anything by Fleetwood Mac, apart from Landslide, which will make me cry every time I hear it. But I think anything by Fleetwood Mac gets me going. Yeah, they're the best. They're so good. Just, just. Well, we will pop Happy on there and we're going to make this playlist and a Fleetwood Mac song for you, Sam. You can choose any. Okay, deal. And thank you so much for chatting today. Thank you. I've so enjoyed it. We've covered a lot of ground. It's been super interesting. So thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. What a pleasure that was. That was one of those Happy Place episodes where I really feel like I got to know Sam as a person, not the the big actor not the the shiny person that we might have seen on billboards but but sam the the man and i really enjoyed just having that conversation which went off in all manner of directions so thank you so much sam now have you ever been called a bimbo or maybe bossy or frigid or mumsy well next week's guest is going to help us unpack all of these bloody ridiculous labels that get put on women.

1:07:59Fearne Cotton: And in the meantime, there'll also be a new book club episode dropping into your podcast feed. That is my chat with the incredible Maggie O 'Farrell, who of course wrote Hamnet. That was our book club pick for January. Maybe you've seen the film and now you want to understand Maggie's writing process or how she came up with this amazing story. It's a really interesting chat. I mean, if she hadn't been so busy with awards season, I would have kept her chatting for a lot longer than I did. We've got loads to look forward to, gang. For now, a massive thanks again to Sam, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios and to you, because you're bloody ace.

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