Sara Cox: I need to be left alone! How to take your holiday reading seriously

0:00Hello and welcome to the Happy Place Guide to Holidays brought to you by British Airways Holidays I'm Fern Cotton and today I'm chatting to Sarah Cox. I think reading on holiday is so lovely because it feels like a real indulgence because you have the time when you don't at home. But I don't think that reading should be seen. I think there's a bit of, with reading it's got a bit of a reputation like it's something you do just to relax and just, you know, that it's a bit self-indulgent, a little bit lazy, you know, during the day you're having half an hour with a good book. But I think it's so brilliant for you.

0:34Well, you will have gathered that this isn't an ordinary episode of the podcast. This is the Happy Place Guide to Holidays, an exclusive Happy Place mini-series brought to you by British Airways Holidays. They're all about helping you take your holidays more seriously, and this series is all about putting the exciting magic back into travel. In each episode, we're having a natter about the things I and you lot, according to British Airways Holidays, love most about going on holiday. Things like discovering new cuisine, finally getting around to some lovely self-care and getting better at a hobby you never seem to have time for at home.

1:12Today is one of my favourite topics of all time, books. We obviously have the Happy Place Book Club here and Sarah Cox hosts the Radio 2 Book Club. So I've decided the two of us are going to join forces for today and create a sort of exclusive holiday reads book club where we just wang on about the joy of reading on holiday. In fact, I know loads of you will love this because according to a recent YouGov survey commissioned by British Airways Holidays, 47 % of UK adults read more on holiday than at home. 47%. This is going to be proper escapism. Let's do it.

2:12You alright Sarah Cox? Hello Fern Carton, how are you? I'm really good. You've had a fun summer already, just did Camp Bestival? Just did Camp Bestival, we did a Team Commandments Live. so I do a Teen Commandments podcast and we thought we wouldn't record it we thought we'd do a little stage show in the library tent at Camp Bestival I love the library tent there so lovely I've been in there, I love it what were you doing in there? I did a talk but I actually spent most of the time just looking at books I loved it in there it's fantastic in there I read a story for CBeebies a couple of years ago at the festival it was the cutest thing ever so engaged all these three and four year olds listening to a bedtime story because obviously my kids don't want them anymore no this is 21 can't rock up to uni and read her a story so we did that yeah it was lovely we just thought we we said whatever happens in this tent stays in this tent and we brought our teen commandments pod to the stage and we did lots of silly games like everybody stand up okay sit down if you've never well it escalated about it started off with if you've never had detention at school and it escalated to if you've never been stopped, moved on or searched by the police.

3:25Oh, wow. Or been intimate in a graveyard. Oh, in a graveyard. That's niche. Not that niche, Fern. Not that niche. In Dorset, not that niche. A few mums still stood up because there's nowhere else to go in the 80s when you wanted to do some heavy petting. And it's dark, no streetlights. Bunch of flowers afterwards. Well, there you go. Too much, too much. That's so good. So it was lovely. I did it. You know, I did the pod with my best mate, Claire. Claire. She's never been to a festival. What? Ever in her life. That was her first one. First ever festival and she's on stage in a Madonna mic being hilarious.

3:59Camp Festival's probably a good initiation because it's family, it's really feel good. Rob DeBank, who runs it, is the nicest human ever. It's just a joy. Yeah, Rob and Josie. How long has it been going? Because I've been going about 60 years. A long time. A long time. It's just really well loved. It's like one of the best weekends of the year for me and the kids. So lovely. They feel good. We gave away some mini neck massages for the moms. Did you? As prizes. I was like, ladies, if you do win the prize, pop it in your pocket quick. Because everybody had their kids with them. And the first mom was like, woo!

4:35Get it in your pocket. Oh, even you saying neck massage is making me go a bit floppy. I should have brought you one. Yeah, I really want one so bad. But you're having a really fun summer so far. I mean, actually, going back, the last time I think we had a proper deep dive chat was at a literary festival. Yes. God, that feels like it was donkey's years ago. Seven months ago, eight months ago, nine months ago, ten months ago. It was maybe the end of summer last year. And we were both on stage together, which was such a treat. Oh, yes. I was going even way back when we were on stage for Happy Place.

5:05Oh, that when you came on here. That was years ago. I thought you were having a funny turn. I was like, it was ages ago. No, that was years ago. So that was in Islington, wasn't it? That was maybe four years ago. Yeah, maybe four years or so. But we did like a little double-headed chat and it was so nice to do that with you. Yeah, for our novels. It was nice, wasn't it? There's definitely safety in numbers in front of a, well, a literary crowd. Very nice literary crowd. Very nice. Talking about our books. Yeah. And then we got to sign them afterwards. Yeah. That could have been awkward. I was slightly worried that everybody would be queuing up with your book.

5:41Oh, no. Yeah, they were coming with both. It was so great. It was nice. It was so good, but it was really good to talk to you about certainly your writing process with your novels. Yes. Because obviously you've written autobiography as well and it is such a different discipline and it's just, it's a long old process that I'd certainly underestimated. And at that point, we were both kind of in the middle of writing a book. The next one. The next one. Have you finished? I should be writing it right now, but I wanted to come and see you first. I'm on the third draft of it. Oh, you're progressing beautifully.

6:16And you're happy? This is the pleasant bit where there's just those little boxes to click on and it'll be a suggestion from my editor like, would she really look at her phone at this point? And you type back either, yes, she would, I look at my phone all the time. Or you're like, good point, and you just slightly tweak and fix it. So it's not the sort of like, I need silence, I need everybody to leave me alone stage. it's the pleasant as you know the titivating bit which is the fun bit how exciting what are you what stage are you at do you want to hear the story yeah of course I do okay will it make me feel better yeah okay oh yeah yeah shit show so was at about I think the same stage as you maybe a little bit behind where you were I was maybe halfway through writing the book at that point or a third way through I don't know anyway maybe towards maybe it was the start of this year I had this epiphany about a non-fiction that I felt incredibly urgent about writing.

7:18Like I couldn't delay it. I needed to start the next day. So I've pressed pause on that one at 48 ,000 words. Wow. Yeah. And I've nearly finished this non-fiction, which I'll end up publishing first. But I feel like that little half-written novel is in a very fragile state that could just be rejected forever at this point, and that scares me. Because to go back to it, it's like, oh, I can't remember. What happened? I have to read it all. Yeah, to go back to it, you need to... Lost momentum. You need to go, like, you need to hire somewhere for a week where nobody knows you. Yeah, and go there and just get reacquainted with it, rekindle the magic.

8:01I'm scared. It'll still be good if it's 48 ,000. I'm into it. Yeah, it's half. It's easily half. Yeah. I'm excited about the non-fiction, though. The non-fiction I felt... And was that the right decision, then? I think so. I think so. I'm still worried about this half-written novel over here. But I'm happy with what I'm writing. But my brain can be a bit chaotic, so I think I couldn't be ordered about it and go, no, finish this one first. I was like, I must write this one. Well, that's amazing, though. If you ever get that feeling as a writer, like, I've got to write this. I've got to get this out of me.

8:36You've just got to go with that one, haven't you? I think so. It's like the ultimate procrastination that you did. Instead of finishing that book, you're like, oh, I'll just distract myself with another book. Exactly. It's all distraction. What can you tell us about the new one that's not out yet? Anything? It's a love story set over 20 years. Ooh. And that's kind of it, really. I wanted to try and see if I could just... It's unrequited love, really. Yeah. They can't really be together. And I just wanted to see if I could have a little play around with that and with female friendships. And I'm trying to not make my men that bad.

9:19My men are so bad in my books. They're all useless, dysfunctional, you know, emotionally stunted. There's one male character in Throne that used to stress me out so much whenever he appeared, who was the... The dealer, the horrible... The ex-husband dealer who kept coming back and sleeping on the sofa in the front room. Yeah, horrible. And I was like, no, no, no, I don't like him. Yeah, he was great to write because he's a real baddie, a real ferretty face. I tried to get him as a little cameo in the new one, but I've had to bin him off. Yeah. Yeah. The new one, I feel like because of Teen Commandments, I've been really honest and really real on air doing the podcast.

10:06And I feel like that has seeped into my writing. How interesting. So one of the girls is quite a party girl. And I had to calm that down a little bit. and my editor was like i don't want you to frighten off your usual readers and then she listened to some of teen commandments part and she was like ah no i see where this has come from you're being very real and this you know but i think podcasting great for that exact reason that it's really it feels so safe and i don't know how you feel but i don't believe radio feels the same radio is cozy and lovely and intimate with the listener but i don't think that you can be as vulnerable and open because you're in someone's car someone's kitchen someone's place of work without them choosing you you know they're choosing the radio station they know you're going to be there but I think with the podcast you find it and then you choose to take that with you so it feels like you've got maybe a bit more room to be completely yourself and honest yeah absolutely and I feel like with the radio like it's not I hate to say it but it's not all about me do you know what I mean it's about the listeners yeah and it's about popping in and making them laugh so I'm just trying to I'm trying to be like the hostess with the mostess with the radio where I want everyone to leave having had a great time yeah and to have made a bit of a fuss of them because they're on the way home from work or they're on the school run and they just need a little bit of loving so I try and I try and do that with the radio and obviously with the radio you know you have got six-year-olds listening yeah and you've got you know great aunt Veronica who's 102 listening.

11:41So you've got to balance that. But like you say, with the pod, they've come, they've come, and we can do what we want. Be really naughty. It's great. Yeah, be too naughty sometimes to the point where I've got a very good friend who listens over it for me and he's like, uh-uh. Yeah, take that out. Take that out. So good. It's really interesting with your, certainly your extremely long, illustrious radio career, but also now your writing career. you spend a lot of time basically talking to yourself with writing it's you and a laptop with radio it's you and a mic yes you know that there's listeners yes no there's readers but actually the art of it is really insular and I think with writing can be quite isolated do you think you work well in that way does that suit your natural tendencies you know what I do actually I feel like with I mean with the writing it's difficult because there's just outside influences all the time things that you know need me teenagers animals husband like jobs life yeah and as much as I'd love to be sort of on a wind you know in a windswept cottage looking out over the sea on my own I actually did I actually did get an airbnb for a couple of days to finish the last hang on a minute what was it no it was to finish this one yeah it was to finish lovely I did like 13 ,000 words in a weekend and got the first draft in and it was amazing just I just took some batch cooking with me to zap in the microwave and just get veggie chili and wrote non-stop just gaffetate myself to a seat because I thought otherwise this is going to take weeks yeah slowly pulling off a plaster so with writing you really you know you need to have that sort of space and to be left alone but with the radio I do I feel like it's not just me in a microphone I do feel like I'm just there surrounded by all my mates who don't mind me showing off my real mates would I mean like yeah wind it in love so good so it's so fun isn't it I was just at radio 2 this morning and it's so funny because obviously loads of us from radio one have migrated over and it feels like the most joyful thing walking through that corridor and going oh there's Grimmie on six there's Scott I saw Vernon this morning it's so funny it's so I love it it truly is the sixth form of the BBC isn't it in the common room it's so fun do we think radio four it's uni maybe oh my god are we gonna progress to uni one day I missed it first time around so I've been quite glad to um but no it is a it is a lovely place and I walk past your they've got your face all lit up in one of the corridors.

14:29I couldn't believe I made it. My little show is tiny. No one even knows about it. I was like, what am I doing on there? Anyway. Every day as I'm nipping to the loo, I go past your lovely face. Grinning. It's ridiculous. Can you read whilst you're writing or is that too distracting that you might pick up someone else's tone, cadence? I think somebody said to write, you've got to read. And so I do find, I don't find myself being intimidated by other writers anymore because I think that's completely pointless. There's always going to be so many better writers than you. You can't let that worry you.

14:59So I do keep reading. But my issue is that I fall asleep very quickly when I read at night. You lucky cow. Yeah. What, you're just like nodding? Yeah. I'm not saying I don't wake up again. Although that has improved recently because I've made some lifestyle changes. Like what? And now I'm asleep. I'm like an idiot, right? Is it sleep hygiene? Well, no, it's so basic. You're going to laugh. It's like, I hope people aren't leaning in there. Life changes, tell me. We've got an amazing hack here that we've never heard of before. People listening are literally going to go, yeah, duh. So for maybe two or three years, I've been like waking up wide awake at 3 a.m.

15:41Yeah. I'm really busy brain. And I'm like, is it hormonal changes? What is going on with me? Is it anxiety? Is it because I'm so busy? And then I thought, I know. why don't I knock on the head that 4pm coffee I was having as the show began every day? And now, because that's where my brain is wired, I'm not like, you know, I'm not like militantly, like midday and beyond, I'm not having any caffeine, so I'm having, you know, caffeine-free tea. That's me. And, you know, I'll get caffeine-free coffee and it's made a massive, massive difference. Yeah, it does, but you would think, oh, I've still got hours until bed, I'll be fine, but each bit of the day matches up to a bit of the evening.

16:22Because I'm a shit sleeper and I just can't drink coffee past midday. There's no way. There's no way. Well, I thought coffee woke you up. But what it does is it suppresses a natural hormone that your brain releases that is supposed to drip, drip, drip all day in your brain and fill up so that by the end of the day you're ready for sleep. And when I realised that actually it was suppressing that, it just made me be a bit like, oh. that just doesn't feel right so you've got that on the head, that's great but the problem is that I am reading and I prop up my Kindle and it's dark and I will do like three or four pages if that but it is the ultimate way to switch off because you're escaping I love, especially reading fiction because you can just check out of all the shit you've done that day the worries you've got and you're in someone else's world it is just a joy do you like reading on holiday?

17:16I love reading on holiday. Yeah. And I love my Kindle because I can just take, it's obviously much lighter than taking actual books. When I used to go on holiday, when I was like 20, I would be taking like four or five books with me. Yeah, well, actual physical books. Actual books. I've got something about, I like holding a book. I love the cover. I love, do you know what I love doing? It's buying a book at the airport. I like buying anything at the airport. Buying things at the airport is so much more fun than buying things in the shop. See, I don't know. I love it. I'm weird with that. I don't really like getting to the airport and not having a plan for what I'm going to be reading on holiday.

17:53It freaks me out a little bit. I will have one book ready. So will you have books packed and then treat yourself at the airport? Yeah, I've got a route. I'm going boots. I'm going WH Smith. I'm going Pratt. I've got a little route that I'm doing through Terminal 5. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm getting myself a new book. Absolutely. That big Pratt, I know the exact one. I get to the airport so early. Pop to Waggers sometimes. Yeah, pop to. They're so early, like so early that they're barely letting me check in. I want to be there, so I'm like in a shopping mall and I'm enjoying that. That's when my holiday begins.

18:23That's what we do. We get there to Terminal 5 about two and a half hours before the flight. And then you're through. The kids are like, really? Why are we here? Yes, come on. So fun. Let's go shopping. Let's go shopping. Where do you like to read when you're on holiday? Are you beach, pool, balcony? Where's the location? Anywhere, really. Not bothered. often by the pool I can't understand people who no judgment but people who watch something by the pool I just don't really get it I want to read and I think I think reading on holiday is so lovely because it's feels like a real indulgence because you have the time when you don't at home and but I don't think that reading should be seen I think there's a bit of with reading it's got a bit of a reputation like it's something you do just to relax and just you know that it's a bit self-indulgent a little bit lazy if, you know, during the day you're having half an hour with a good book.

19:15But I think it's so brilliant for you. Me too. I think we need to reframe it as an important part of your day to do a bit of reading. Oh my God, without a doubt. I mean, I personally, I don't mind if I'm reading fiction, nonfiction, but I know there are multiple reasons why I'm doing it. One is because I've always got a bit of an insecurity that I didn't go to university and I've had to sort of teach myself a lot of stuff. So as long as I'm learning, I'm happy. I don't care if I'm learning through the medium of reading fiction. So I'm just picking up, oh, that's a lovely way of describing something.

19:45Or I'm reading a factual book where I am imbibing information and taking it on board. But equally, I want the escapism. It stops me from being a hyperactive fidget, which is my natural tendency. It slows everything down. I think it helps focus my brain. There's just there's so many pluses to reading. What's the benefit, do you think, for you? I think all of that and I didn't go to uni either so I'm exactly I'm the same where I'm like oh I don't I wouldn't mind just sort of learning and yeah you know picking stuff up I love um I love when you're excited about a book oh me too where you're thinking can I take my kindle to lunch even though like you know walk whilst you're reading yeah well you can't wait to get back to it and for me that's quite rare to be honest because we we did between the covers which I had to read 12 books per series for that and pretty quickly that's a lot when you're reading for work is a completely different vibe isn't it so much so that when we'd finish that series i'd be like i wouldn't you know it really got me in the habit of reading which is good but i'd be so excited about choosing what to read and i love the feeling of just being like oh my god i can't wait to get back to that book and i had a holiday we went to italy for a week and i just i had like the two perfect books that I read that were perfect sort of holiday reading.

21:04What were they? So this book was absolutely huge. So on my recent holiday, I read Remarkably Bright Creatures by Shelby Van Pelt. Right. And it is perfect. When people say it was a perfect holiday read, I feel like sometimes that can feel a bit snippety. But it's not. It's a huge compliment. It's when your brain is the most relaxed when you're open to new ideas. And so this is told from the point of view of a widow who is a cleaner at an aquarium in Washington. And she makes friends with one of the exhibits, which is an octopus. And that's a remarkably bright creature. And there's a few chapters, now go with it, from the point of view of the octopus.

21:46Love. Yeah, are you there? Yeah. Because some people are like, no. Oh, no, no. The weirder, the better. And it's absolutely beautiful. And it's about this woman and about, There's a mystery around her son, how he died, and there's loads of incredible characters in it. And it's laugh out loud funny, which for me is really rare. I don't often laugh out loud when I'm reading a book. No, I don't. But it's a beautiful book. So there was that, and then I went on to The Girls by Kirsty Capes, which is about two sisters and a road trip. Oh, I like the sound of that already. Yes, and they have a really dysfunctional past.

22:24they had a really celebrated artist for a mum who's now died and they had a terrible upbringing and the mum was an addict and they had a really, really tough time and they were estranged and then they came back together after the mum died and they go on this road trip. They're on a bit of a mission. And it's the first time where I was reading it thinking, oh, I've never been that far to the Grand Canyon. Oh, I want to go there. But no, I'm like, the way Kirsty Capes describes it, I'm like, oh, I want to go there. I want to go. I've never been. Just this void. Apparently your brain just can't take it in.

22:59Like how massive, incredible it is. Wow. Should we try and get someone to pay us to go together? Yeah, why don't we recreate the book? Let's do it. Yes, good. We'll do like a documentary version of it. Yes. Have you ever been somewhere much like this, inspired by reading about a location in a book? So, well, I've been to Japan very recently with the kids. And obviously like everybody else in the late 90s, I read Memoirs of a Geisha. Brilliant book. Of course. And then more recently, Butter. I haven't read that. I've heard a lot about it. Yeah. Butter's a great book. So I read that for Between the Covers.

23:33And the thing is with that show was that I'd often read some books that weren't really for me. But obviously I'd read every word because I was so paranoid. I'd be caught. Yeah. And so I absolutely loved Butter. And also when I heard about through that show, one of our guests recommended it was the convenience store woman. which is a tiny book, Sayaka Murato, but it's all three sort of straddle Japanese culture. So, you know, especially with butter more recently, my eldest read Butter whilst we were in Japan. Oh, wow. And that's just, you know, it's about a serial killer and a journalist, Butter, and it's fantastic.

24:13But there's one bit that just, the way she describes food, because the serial killer is a bit of a gourmet cook, so then to go to Japan and eat all the food that she's talking about in the book was amazing and there's one thing where she has hot rice just steamed hot rice with some fridge cold butter oh just a little chunk of that I can taste it I did it at home and it was amazing there's something so beautiful about well-written food scenes I probably love nothing more yeah and I'm instantly hungry and I or I want a cold glass of wine like all the descriptive words used around food especially on holiday especially when it's a cuisine local to that area I read this lovely novel it was yonks ago now called the thousand lights hotel and it's set in Elba an island off of Italy and I just felt like I was there every time I opened the book I was just like I want to be at that hotel I can vividly imagine it the pasta they were eating the wine they were drinking It's like, oh, I just want to go to Italy now.

25:19So desperately. I managed to eat my way all around Italy when we went there for our 20th anniversary, me and Ben. And it was just, you go to these quite tatty, ordinary-looking restaurants. The best. And the food's just incredible because it's just simple ingredients, so lovely. So gorgeous. Another book, I mean, Victoria, this is such a cliche, but The Island by Victoria Hislop is set in Alunda in Crete. and across the way is Spinalonga, which was the leper colony that the book, the love story is set on. And so I did read that book while sitting on my balcony, looking across the water at the island of Spinalonga.

26:01I love that. And I completely, that's the most intense sort of boiled down I've ever done, like the book, the place, the vibe. I was literally looking up, looking at Spinalonga. Oh my God, that's amazing. Many people have gone before and after me, done that. I mean, when you go to Crete, like Victoria Hislop, I think she's got like the key to the island or whatever it is. She's just an absolute queen there because she's brought so much tourists, especially to spin along her. I mean, I went over there on the ferry to look around and I wanted to sort of wander around and imagine myself in the love story.

26:31But the kids were quite young then, so I was like dragging like a three-year-old, a three-year-old, a five-year-old and a nine-year-old around on a boiling day. I love it. Just slapping Factor 60 on them. Yeah, classic holiday. stuff going on. I love nothing more than reading a book about a place you're in. I remember it wasn't fiction, but reading Bill Bryson's travel book around Australia whilst I was there when I was maybe 19, 20. And there is something quite magical about reading the description of it, being in the place, noticing things you actually probably wouldn't see otherwise, unless there'd been, you know, someone else pointing it out beforehand.

27:08There's something so magical about that. I really want to go back to LA having now read Daisy Jones and the Six twice because I loved it so much. I mean it would require me time travelling also back to the 70s but just to walk around some of those streets and the Chateau Marmont and expecting to see Daisy Jones walk out. That is the book that most people have told me to read because I've not read it. No. I've interviewed her about her latest one. Oh Atmosphere. That's on my bedside. I'm desperate. I've read all of her books. I'm a massive Taylor Jenkins she's very cool I mean she's just signed like a multi multi multi million pound deal she's hugely popular but yeah Daisy Jones and the Six is the one I've got her are you good at reading hyped books because I love the seven what is it the seven oh yeah the seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo and I really enjoyed that that's her isn't it yeah and then there was another one Malibu Rising that's really good that's the only one of hers that I've read so I feel like I should Daisy Jones and also Carrie Soto which is about tennis I loved that book and I know nothing about tennis but she brought the characters to life, the love story to life.

28:11It's so, so brilliant. She's very clever. Are you good at hyped books? Because sometimes I think, oh, everyone's telling me to read this book, I don't want to read it. It puts me off. Yeah, I'm a bit like that. I'm like, it's going to be a disappointment, obviously. It's like anything, like movies or anything. You're just like, oh, no, it's not for me then. It's just too much. There have been ones where I've read it and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's pretty good. Like Girl on the Train. Oh, great book. Yeah, great. There's some undeniable classics. Yeah, yeah. And then there's lots of sort of like the big book of the summer.

28:40I mean, I'm reading The Compound at the moment by Aisling Rawl, who we had on Radio 2 on the book club pod. And it's been billed as somewhere between Love Island and Lord of the Flies. So they're in the middle of the desert and they're in a sort of villa. But it's much more brutal than Love Island. So that hooked me in. But it's hard because I do snooze off. I mean, especially when you're on holiday as well and you're in the sunshine. You've had a sangria. And you've had a sangria. Such a treat. Try to stay awake for these books, you know. So I'll often have like an autobiography on the go or a biography on the go.

29:18I love an autobiography. Because I feel like with reading, it should be, especially when you're away on holiday, you should be like, what am I in the mood for? You know, like you do with TV, like where you'll look around, you know, all different programs, whether you want a documentary or you want a movie. But holidays are when you throw yourself off of your normal routine. So you're like, what do I really want to eat rather than what's in the fridge? What do I really want to read rather than I've started this book, so I should finish it. It's sort of the place where you can have that freedom, I think.

29:48Yeah. And it's nice just to some days I'm like, I fancy a bit of nonfiction. Reading a great book called Mam Darling, which randomly is about Princess Margaret. I've read it. It's so brilliant. It's amazing. And there's like fictional bits and factual bits. It's so intriguing. But some of the fictional bits I didn't realise were fictional. Oh, and you thought they were real? I asked my father-in-law over lunch, I was like, did Princess Margaret marry Picasso? And in my brain, I was like, that wasn't in The Crown. That would have been a great bit in The Crown. Oh, it's such a good book. And he was like, no, you idiot.

30:23It's a great book, isn't it? Yeah, she's just the most intriguing historical figure. Absolute nightmare badass. Yeah, exactly. Legendary nightmare. there. Literally like just tapping her ciggy ash on people's outstretched palms and stuff. I love it. So good. Have you read, oh I can't remember the name of it now the book that's by the, she's still alive today, her husband basically invented Mustique. He kind of put it on the map. She's a lady. Lady Glencoma Yeah, Lady Glencoma have I made that up? I know, I think I know you mean. She's best friends with Princess Margaret. Yeah, okay. So I used to go to Mustique together and have all these fabulous holidays.

31:07And she had all the stories and the gossip. That was a brilliant. I know the book you mean. I think I remember. She's Lady Glencoma, I think. But we'll double check on that one. But I love that when there's unearthed facts about people that we know and you get a deeper dive on them. Yeah, there's loads of diary entries from people at the time from different sort of artists and musicians and society people. It's fantastic. So fun. So random. Have you been to a place on holiday that you thought, in a novel in the future, in one of your own fictions, I'm going to weave this place in? Because I did that.

31:41I've only obviously written one fiction. But I've got a real soft spot for Lulworth Cove in Dorset. And I love going there. It's my happy place. And I just thought that has to be in there. I don't know how yet, but I'm going to describe every inch of the walk from the car park to the cove. And I loved writing that bit because I know it's so well, it's so well trodden for me that I could picture the colour of the boys in the sea, the boat and how distressed it was. And I just loved describing it because I know it and I love it so much. Have you done that or are you planning to do that? Well, in Way Back where the main character, Josie, goes back to her childhood farm, very much sort of all the little country lanes are just all the lanes on one side of my dad's actual farm in real life.

32:31So just the hawthorn bushes and the way that they bloom in sort of spring and summer. And also where I ride my horse now, like this morning where I ride, all the blackberry bushes are coming out. And if, you know, as I'm riding past sometimes when they get quite ripe, I do nick a blackberry. Yeah, too ripe. Off the high ones, obviously, because I'm on a horse, I can get quite high up. Because no dogs have peed on those ones, clearly. So I feel like in way back, I really could indulge in just those windy lanes, especially where the trees meet overhead. And that, we used to holiday in the south of France, but we'd go on the coach.

33:10We'd go on a coach, which would take like... Yeah, we used to drive there, nightmare. Hours. It felt like you were like two days on holiday and then another six days to get home and then get the ferry and all. But I remember whenever now I'm driving along a country lane and that is my happy place if the trees have met up above and you're just under the canopy with the sun sort of dappling through. You'll get that in Devon occasionally. And I just love that kind of. So I love, I really enjoy writing that kind of. You've just sparked a memory, actually, of a book where perhaps, because I don't think I'd maybe been to anywhere quite as French as this, was reading Chocolat back in the day and thinking, oh, my God, I want to go to that little town in France.

33:53I can picture every bit of it. And when they did the film adaptation, I was like, they've nailed it. That's exactly what I was imagining, that quintessentially beautiful French cobbled stone village. Or just... What village? So my in-laws used to have a place in the south of France, in Saint-Paul-de-Vence, which was very beautiful. We would land at Nice and we'd drive up to their house. They sold it a few years ago. It was absolutely a few months ago. How dare you? But we had so many lovely holidays. And I was allowed to go there with my girl pals as well once a year. And it was beautiful. And we would go.

34:30And Saint-Paul is really an old cobbledy town upon a hill. Beautiful. and the Colum d 'Or is there where Picasso used to like knock out a little etching in return for you know some snails or something I've got to weave that into one of your future books I would love to get that into a book I'm also thinking of a place that I want to travel to so that I can do the research so I can do the research yeah research trip come on maybe a girl from the north who finds out she's got relatives in Barbados is that a stretch? no completely fine long lost cousin or something yeah absolutely happens to dwell in jamaica needs to go to jamaica for a month for a month it's got to be done um apart from riding your horse through a sun-dappled archway of trees where is your holiday happy place tell you what our holiday happy place without doubt is switzerland oh how come tell me about switzerland well my lovely husband ben or husband as I call him he he doesn't really like very hot weather oh that's a shame he likes the weather to be a bit more bearable okay and that's what you'll get in Switzerland in the summer it'll be sort of like 24 25 and are you hiking we are hiking so you go to basically what a ski resorts in the winter you go there in the summer and you get the the vernacular up the mountain and the Teens are a great age now for walking.

36:02They're not like, my legs are tired. Can you carry me? I'm at that stage still. Don't want to walk. Don't want to. What are we walking for? No, they're kind of quite into it. That's good. We will get up the mountain and then we will pootle down the mountain and it's beautiful and green and lush and the people are lovely. We stayed in two different places. We stayed on the French side and the German side. We slightly preferred the French side. We preferred the sort of food there and the vibe. but yeah we love Switzerland and we went we went two years on the trot and nearly nearly a third I mean my son would be like go every year if you could he absolutely loves it but you think there's so many incredible places to go to you've got to try and see as many as possible especially after Japan we we now want to do trips yeah so you know where we've got a plan and we've got a bit of a route and there's a bit of a tour going on your kids are a good age to do that i think they need to all be kind of independent not moaning about every little thing they've got to be able to carry their own bags yes and to be able to you know be responsible for like you know and actually my son was brilliant in japan because we're trying to work out the bullet trains getting on the shinkansen line it was incredible and he when it got a bit much for husband where he felt responsible for being like the sort of scout leader like follow me this is the way we said to our someone like okay you're group leader today and he absolutely loved it so i think it's great for kids just to have that bit of control and you know being in he was just in charge of the day leading us to the right platform and stuff so yeah trips as a family now so now i'm thinking south america yes yes all of that so great age for it great age well i've written down so many books that I know I need to read during my summer holidays.

37:55I'm so, so excited to get stuck in some of these. We need to do more regular book swaps, I think. Yeah, definitely. Just to like tip each other off about things that we've loved. I think we've got a similar taste in certainly fiction. And can we put them in the show notes as well would be a nice idea. We'll put them in the show notes so people can get the authors and descriptions because I think we're all keen. Because you came up with a few crackers. Well, we're just keen to cut through the... There's so many books out there and I think you know what you like. You just need someone to tell you if this is your genre, if this is what you're into this is what you need to read on your holidays absolutely you don't want to mess around on a holiday with a book you don't like no point no point no Coxie you're an absolute legend we love you thank you so much for coming on Happy Place again thanks for having me it's been gorgeous I love that do you know what I love talking about books so much and I love Sarah Cox so much that that chat potentially and realistically could have gone on for five hours six hours If I were to get stuck in the lift on the way down from the studio to the street level with Sarah, I would be fine.

38:56I mean, we would just keep on with that conversation for many, many hours. Me noting down book recommendations in my little nerdy notepad. That was fun. If you want help taking your holidays more seriously, then you know where to go. British Airways Holidays allows you to book with a low deposit and pay off your holiday in flexible installments. They offer a 24-hour holiday helpline and all holidays include a generous baggage allowance per person. What's more, all British Airways holidays are atoll protected, so they've got you well and truly covered. Right, that's it for this mini-series. I have loved recording it, so a huge thanks to British Airways Holidays for making it happen.

39:38And to, of course, my wonderful guests, Sarah Cox, Tess Daly, Richard E. Grant and Clara Ampho. plus producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios. But most of all, thanks to you lot for listening. I hope these episodes have made you think a little more about holidays and the important role they can play in our lives, whatever they look like and whatever you might be into. I hope you all have a fantastic time away on your next break. Big love.

40:15Thank you.