Take That: Families, imposter syndrome, and Pinterest

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. Today a big bumper episode for you not one not two but three gorgeous guests. I'm chatting to Gary Barlow, Mark Owen and Howard Donald, otherwise known as Take That. The music saved me over the years. It did. It was my answer in the years that I wasn't doing music to get back to it. It was my answer to not make me focus on fame because the music, and I believe that with anything, if the sole skill of what you do, if you let that skill go and concentrate on something else that was a partner to that skill, I think you get lost and you need to go back to the skill, the reason why people first noticed you or discovered you.

0:46Why was that? It's because I'm a singer and songwriter. And if you keep going back to that well, I think that's where the health comes from. I don't think I really need to introduce Take That to you, really. But Just In Case, Take That formed as a five-piece band in 1989 and were quite honestly an immediate success. Their first two albums charted at number two and number one, respectively. The band split in 1996, but for the last 18 years or so, Take That have been regrouping to make music and tour together. Robbie Williams returned for 2011's Progress tour that saw them break UK records for the fastest selling album of the 21st century and the fastest selling tour of all time.

1:34It's madness. Now, Gary, Mark and Howard have released a new single that I'm obsessed with called Windows and are set to play 29 dates across 15 cities around the UK and Ireland in 2024. And they're obviously known for their huge live show productions, so I can't even begin to imagine what they're dreaming up for this one. If you're not already in love with Take That, I think you really will be by the end of this chat. The guys were the most fun to hang out with. In fact, there was so much gorgeous energy in the room. They sort of gate crashed the beginning of the chat. There was no proper start to this chat as you hear.

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3:47OK, take that coming up in just a moment. Oh my God, but first, a little bit of news. Happy Place Festival is back in 2024. Get in. We'll be back at Chiswick House and Gardens on Saturday the 13th and Sunday the 14th of July. And in Tatton Park on Saturday the 31st of August and Sunday the 1st of September. Early bird tickets at 2023 prices are on sale now until Friday the 20th of October. Ticket links and more information can be found at happyplaceofficial.co.uk forward slash festival. Oh, I can't wait to see you all there next summer. All right, here's the show.

4:53Do you do a lot of these with groups? No, this is the biggest group I've had on the podcast in real life. Isn't that interesting? Yeah, I've had three people for an interview on Zoom, but in real life, this is a first for Happy Place. Yes. Yeah. I'm glad it's you. We were looking for the first. Always. Here we are. Super competitive, Gary. Oh, yeah, always. I mean, you have been on, Gary, in 2018, which was lovely to chat to you then. But it's really good to have all three of you here today to chat about a whole ton of stuff. First of all, I messaged you the other night. Windows is a right tune.

5:35Oh, thank you. Come on. Thank you. That song. That is amazing. We're happy. We're happy. Bet you are. Yeah. It's got a really strong melody. You've got strings. You've got live guitars in there. It sounds quite 70s. What were your sort of initial thoughts starting out with this project? Well, it started actually with something Mark said to me. He said, what we've got to imagine is that we knew at this point we were going to do BST this year. So it's obviously we'd played BST before. So he said, imagine walking out onto the stage. We wave and then we strike into the song. What is that song? Oh, I like that.

6:15And I thought, oh, that's an interesting one. And so I went off and started beavering away a bit. And then you came round one afternoon, didn't you? And so what's happened throughout this record we've done is each of us have brought something in. It could be two lines or it could be a 90 % finished song. But we've done it individually. And I found Windows early and heard it and got mad. I said, just check this out, see what you think. And he was like, I can see it now. the sun's setting and interestingly we didn't end up doing it at BST did we in the end no we almost did and we dropped it about three hours before yeah yeah we just thought it was too early oh right we got a bit nervous but it's one of those songs that you instantly you hear it and you go I know this song and you don't know it but it's got that beautiful familiar melody about it it's like an instant sing-along so good I think it's not only an instant sing-along it's actually because obviously we've been through the process of recording it and doing the video to it, hearing it lots and lots of times.

7:17And it's one of those songs I don't seem to get sick of, you know. No. You want to sing it. It's a real sing-along song. I think for me what I, that drew me in immediately to this song was hearing Gary's voice on it. Because I've not heard him sing like that for, and I know it's like a ridiculous thing because I've known him for 30-odd years and heard him sing many songs, but the way he was delivering that song and the sort of the tone, I don't know how you'd say it, but it felt new, even though I'd known him for a long time. I was like, oh, my God, who's that? Who's that guy? Keep going. Yeah.

7:54You've got a little five minutes to fill. Actually, that was, it was really exciting. And so it wasn't just a song. It was the drive behind this record, I think, for us. What I'm trying to say is that there was a determination. like because we'd had a gap it didn't feel like we were sort of tiring out and winding down it felt like we were coming back with this new energy and he just told me about the breath work you've been doing with your friends Richard Orton yeah Richie what was that high note in Windows right at the start it is high it is especially as we look into next week at some live performances it's like A's and it's high up there slightly regretting that now very much so When you have a song like Windows land in your head, what is that?

8:44Is that a download? Where are you getting that from? Do these songs end up sort of fully formed entering your mind? How does that work? I'm so interested in that process. It's such a funny one, songs arriving. And often for me, it's never just a melody. I can hear everything. I can hear the strings, how the drums should sound. I can hear lots of things when melodies come. Actually, there's a few different feelings. The first is, bloody hell, this is good. This could be something. Then versus, thank God for that, we've got a single. A lot of things could, because it's more than just writing music for fun.

9:21It's writing music knowing everyone else is writing music, knowing we're on a new label now. We've got a goal to aim for the end of next year. So all that relief comes. And then I think the songwriter takes over and then you set to work on crafting this tiny piece you've got. And I guess then it becomes the experience you've had over the years. But they do just land. I don't know where these things come from. I don't know. It depends on the day of the week or what you're looking at or which country you're in. But they do, thank goodness, keep landing. It's interesting that you feel relief because most would assume you're Gary Barlow.

10:02these songs are always going to be there. But do you have that feeling like, what if I can't write a classic again? What if there isn't another big song? I think that every time I sit at a piano, to be honest. And I do also, the one thing I did learn over the years was, I don't write 12 songs now and then don't write until the next album starts. I write nearly every day. If I'm in the studio, I try and write because it's like a muscle songwriting is. It's really like, if you don't sing for 12 months, your voice is not going to be as good. you've got to keep working that muscle um it's healthy it's healthy and also beyond that actually i have tailored my life in the in the recent years to also add to that skill of songwriting i read a lot um make sure there's plenty of downtime in the day where i actually get to relax it i work out i do all the things we love to do to keep my mind healthy and ready for when it's needed when something like that lands and you go right I need to work on this now I'm in a healthy place to do that yeah so important and did you was there sort of an active rebellion in terms of making sure this album had loads of live strings and live guitars and piano on there considering so much of today's music is made digitally on a screen and you can replicate any instrument you want any vocal you want did you want to get back to basics I wouldn't say it was not a plan no I I think the song told us where we were going.

11:32You know, we're very fortunate. We've worked with some of the greatest producers, you know, in the world, Stuart Price, you know, John Shanks. They're all amazing producers. But when Windows came along, and maybe it was the new label as well, and the sound of that song, it made us think a little bit differently. We've got a new label, EMI Thomas at EMI Records. He came in with a load of fresh ideas. names names of people who thought would be good and and so it was exciting for us to try to do something different and a name that came up uh quite a lot in conversation in a gentleman from um savannah he's called dave cobb is a american producer and he'd come up in a few chats we'd had and we'd all heard bits of records that he had done but basically we went out into nashville in January last year, wasn't it?

12:26We turned up there. It was freezing. A meeting, really. We had three days, but we turned up there. We'd never met him, never really spoke to him, apart from saying, see you on Friday. Yeah. We turned up there with, you know, a few songs, like, except, not, because, actually, it might have been except. Played him a few songs. He had a band there, and we were literally just straight from the tape player into the room with the band, and it was at RCA Victor Studio B, which is like I know this is probably a bit boring for listeners but it's like their best studio it's where Elvis recorded so many two songs wow Dolly Parton recorded there the Everly Brothers Woody Holly the room was amazing and it was just we didn't even get a chance to sort of say a lot like put our coat up before we knew we were in and they were recording the song and it was just we were just like we're in we're off yeah Yeah.

13:22There's magic in rooms like that, isn't there? Whenever I go to Abbey Road, you can feel it in the room. The energy of it is so cool. And how is it making an album? I mean, you've made a ton of music over the years together and off as solo artists. How does it differ to when you first started out in the 90s? I mean that in an emotional sense, because I can even look back at the start of my career in the 90s. and I was healthily naive, super confident, had all my goals in sight, nothing was going to stop me. I personally think that gets harder as you get older. That confidence is slightly more fragile.

13:58You're certainly not naive. You know what the pitfalls are and where things can go wrong. Have you experienced a sort of similar journey in terms of how you emotionally approach making music? Yeah, I guess if you go back to the 90s, obviously when the band was formed, And it was, you know, Gary was obviously the songwriter of the 90s and we didn't really write anything in the 90s, which worked perfectly because Gary had the ammunition basically for the group to work, which was perfect. And, you know, and then when we obviously disappeared for nine years and then we came back and we decided that from now on for us all to be, you know, happy in our own world, let's take that, you know, we'll all start contributing to the writing of everything.

14:43And so, and yeah, and it's really worked and it's actually made us, it made me, and I guess individually, it's made us all feel like we are really part of the album. Even though we sung on all the songs in the 90s and we had our little, you know, we had our little say on some of the songs, but it's, you know, now we're all writing together. It feels like we're in a great place, in a creative place and it's a, yeah, happy place. see that what an ending perfect that's not the end of the podcast but that's been a great ending yeah save it for later that same thing yeah yeah chop it up yeah um because i mean i heard you on my friend jake's podcast gary on high performance and you were saying that you were the leader back then and you wanted to control things how has that been to sort of let go in certain areas and ensure that everyone like the dynamic has changed over the years well it happened very very early that did because when we all came back um and this goes back to the question you asked previously i think a bit as well when we all um stood in a room when we were doing that reunion thing it just all sort of happened it was there was no big plan it was it was it was more or less like we were just landed in a room we were all just sort of looking at each other most of us hadn't done anything for 10 years.

16:04I hadn't sung for about five or six years, not even in my own studio. I'd really turned my back on performing. And I remember us all looking at one another and we were not a band. We'd been a band, but we were not a band at that point. And I think that we then experienced this whole thing of tour tickets going on sale, doing this massive tour. We felt the love of the people again. And I think once it was clear that we should try and do something new, not just trade off our back catalogue, how is that going to look as adults now, not as these young guys from the 90s? How does that look as adults?

16:49And I think that, for me, the reason I'm here today and the reason I go and sing on later next week or whatever is because I've started this process with the music, the idea, the lyric, and it means so much to me. So the idea that everyone could feel that and feel part of this group was really the only way to make this work second time round. And you can say, you can list the songs of the reasons why we came back so big, but I believe that feeling was really the fire underneath that whole thing of why we all worked so hard on a tour. What the music, if you can get yourself into that music, there's nothing you'll ever be more passionate about in your life as to telling people and singing it to people.

17:42And I believe that was really the start of Take That, the band, this time round. I think it also took pressure off Gary as well. Gary was so responsible of coming up with the next hit single in the 90s and he was always in the studio, whereas we wasn't in the studio until it came to singing the song. So the fact that now we were all like became co-writers and writers of the song, it meant that Gary could obviously have more freedom to do whatever he wanted to do and actually sit back and listen to the songs that we were writing rather than being so intensely writing songs for Take That. Can I frog in your throat at the wrong time?

18:21Oh, yeah, yeah. Do you know, last year I was doing a show where it was mostly talking. And at one point I had to take a drink of something. And I always worried about that happening. Oh my God, it's awful. I've had it so many times. And it takes about half an hour for it to go. So my worst one was live on Radio 1. I was interviewing Bruno Mars. He's an interesting character. And I had that so bad. And I got a coughing fit. And I had to hand him the script, like a sheet of paper. and just point and he had to link into the song. It was awful. Nothing's worse than that. What do you think, looking at your, you know, you've stuck around for a long time, 33 odd years, is pretty much unheard of and we know the bands that have stuck around, like the Foo Fighters, like the Stones.

19:11Why do you think it is? Do you think friendship has to be there as a foundation? I'm not sure because I know lots of unhappy bands who are still around. I guess. Bands are tricky. They are tricky. I think we're lucky. I think we're lucky. I mean, I've known these guys longer than I've known my wife. You know, we have a long... And I think often when people who are new to our fold come around us, they listen to us talk to one another and they say, is everything all right? And I was like, no, don't worry. We know each other really well. Yeah, yeah. So it's tricky for us now to sort of ever offend one another.

19:48We know each other so well. and this is a happy version of us right now. I mean, we're, you know, I feel like, especially, I don't want to single you out, but I've enjoyed watching Howard's on this particular album, actually. I feel like he's written and done his best performance I've ever heard on this album. So to see us going, doing things that are surpassing what we've done in the past, it's just brilliant. It's just brilliant. I feel like I've just got started. It's a really weird feeling. I feel like I've had the freedom. I think a lot of the freedom has been taken up from the past through having young children.

20:26Yeah. And me putting my family first, you know, over take that, which I guess is what everyone does anyway now. But back in the 90s, that's all we knew. You know, that's all we wanted to do. And, you know, even girlfriends, no one was married, no one had children. So all we wanted to do was be and take that. So back then, we didn't really have the connection with each other and the friendship than what we do now. And I think maybe a lot of it is down to actually having children and actually understanding each other's situations. And, you know, there's nothing better than getting in a room and talking about a situation.

21:04And that's what we have always done. We've always talked about stuff and whether a problem arises, we always talk about it rather than sweeping under the carpet. we never even had time back in the 90s to even address anything like that and now we do and not only is it a friendship but I think the in that nine years we had the gap where we wasn't doing anything I think we were very lucky that the songs that Gary wrote they had a real life you know and they were played on the radio all the time so then when we came back the people knew our songs so and it's so lovely that you feel like you're just getting started because I think a big problem with a lot of bands or artists who have been around for a long time they do get jaded they do get bored of doing the cycle of record promotion touring and they become maybe complacent or not as grateful but it feels like you guys have that fire in your belly why do you think that is why have you all stuck with that feeling of yeah we're just getting started there's more to get done yeah i mean again it's um besides not feeling you know i feel like my creativity personally is I've just started letting out my creativity someone else I'm lost get that coffee down maybe I've had too much coffee today that's what it is we are like minded we are like minded we're very you know we come off stage having played in front of the house start planning what's coming next and you know we're ambitious still the music I have to always come back to the music you can make all the plans in the world but if your music's not right and it's not making you excited and each other excited you don't have anything and we're serious about that that's the bit we have to get right and so we put a lot of time into that and it's rewarding when it is right yeah and I think basic things like you know your mum say when you're going back out on tour you know are you right now you're doing any more You know, it's basically like that, that family and friends say, oh, when are you guys going back out on the road?

23:10And you're like, I'd better call them and see when we're going back out. They do something. We better do something. I haven't seen you on top of the pops in a while. Uh-oh, that's gone. I actually think it's still on. Is it at Christmas maybe? It's true, though. You know, people enjoy, I mean, it's part of my life. So I think I was 17 when we started off and it's literally part of my life. So when I'm not doing it, I like having a break from it, but I miss it when I'm not. So after a while, a break becomes a bit like something that's not quite working or it's like I can't find my shoe. You know, it's like so there's a real comfort in being around the band, you know, whichever form of that band it is, whether it's three, four, five.

23:55You know, I like being around. And it's not just the three of us as well. It's the people around us, our musicians, the producers. it's nice to be a part of as an energy of creativity as you know it's nice being around other people who are doing things of a similar sort of nature so that you can chat about things and you can enjoy that space and you know I like I like working I love my job and I like working I love the lads I love the people that we work with and so I miss it when I'm not doing it so that's what keeps me going. It is all you know. We have all been somewhere where, the three of us anyway, have been at a time when we haven't been at, like, we wanted to do interviews, but nobody wanted to interview us.

24:42So we know the other side. The feeling. That feeling of, and so to be on this side is better. Feels nicer, you know, to be able to go, oh, we're going out on tour or we're making a new record is better than going, I can't get a record deal. There's, you know, there's no gigs to play. So we've seen both sides of it. So I think that that makes us super, super grateful every day to be able to do this, but also really enjoy it and just enjoy the company and the challenge. It's challenging. It's challenging to go, okay, we're going to come back. We've got to make a new record. What's that going to sound like?

25:18But it's great having those conversations, but it's challenging as well. Yeah. And we enjoy, you know, we're now putting together a tour. It's like we've done some great tours. We've done the biggest tours ever, you know, the biggest show. So how are we going to do it now? Now we're just having a conversation about that. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful thing, really. Yeah, I think it's, you know, it's such a weird industry, isn't it? Your side of it, my side of it. I think all of us kind of tread very carefully going, oh, my God, it could all end. You just don't know what's going to happen next.

25:50And I think if you're not grateful and diligent, that's where it all starts to go wrong. I feel exactly this. every time I get to do a podcast, I'm like, grateful, bloody brilliant. I get to sit and do this and this is my job and meet people and enjoy it. I would never take that for granted. Could you see yourselves like the Stones working in this industry, in some ways, on stage, still doing your thing down the line in your 70s, 80s? And the differences between us and them, obviously they're full on playing instruments. And, you know, obviously Mick Jagger's doing his singing, And I think maybe that maybe has more of a longevity.

26:29Maybe this is just in my head, more of a longevity than what we would as a pop band who are known for as a vocal group and a performing group and a dancing group. But, you know, I don't know. I would like to think so. But although I am dreading the big 60, which is not until the next year. No, it's not until the number five years. It's quite nice. He hits it first. So we get to test it with him. Exactly He's the oldest So he hits it first And then we go How's he doing? How is it? And if he looks like he's struggling We'll just stop But if someone had told you guys In the 90s That you'd be releasing albums And this excited about to go and talk You wouldn't have believed it So who knows?

27:0960's going to be fine Howard Don't worry I hope so It's going to be alright You're nearly 60 already I'm 55 Five years away That's 80's Miles away You know I'd like to believe we are because obviously we're very conscious about our health and what we do with our bodies. And we know now that, you know, what used to be a 10-minute warm-up in the 90s is now an hour's warm-up, you know. I'm laughing because I know. And now it's a post-warm-up, you know, post-warm-down. Warm-down. And the magnesium bath, you know what I mean? This isn't me, by the way. It's a lot of... Oh, no, it's a fiddle, Gary. A lot of vitamins.

27:54The little bitumen thing. It gets longer and bigger as we're getting older. Different times. I'd like to think we have longevity because of that reason of keeping ourselves in shape. Not only for the band, but obviously for our own kids as well. Yeah. It takes a lot of time, but it's worth it. But it's mentally really great for you as well to be doing stuff. And I heard you say yesterday, I think it was, I don't know what we were talking about, but you were talking about doing the gym and you were saying, I don't just do it for the guns. I've never said the word guns in my life ever. He didn't say the word guns.

28:30No. I think you said I don't necessarily do it for the muscle, I do it for the mind. That's it. That's what he said. He did mention about his butt muscles as well. You know what? Cut it now. Cut it. Gary's guns. Whatever next. You know what? I swear on my life. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert.

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30:27How over the years have you coped with fame? Because that is a really strange subject matter to get onto. And it's something that we've talked about on the podcast before. There's still huge myths out there about what fame means and what it is and what it brings you. I think the reality is it can be useful in terms of keeping up what you're doing and having the opportunities. But actually, I think the downsides often outweigh the positive. How have you found it? And who do you think's coped the best with being in the spotlight, being scrutinised? That's a difficult one, that. But, you know, I struggle with fame.

31:01I really do. I struggle with fame. I just, I don't know. Sometimes I believe, sometimes I think that I'm not really worth it. I don't think I, you know, it's a weird feeling that, you know, three of us got out of the car the other day and there's people waiting for us. And I felt like I was almost saying to myself, I wonder whether anyone wants to see me. I don't know, it's really sad that, isn't it? But I just actually felt I didn't, I sometimes feel that I'm not worth it about being in the band. You know what I mean? I don't know why. It's just, it's a really strange feeling. And I do go through different motions of, yes, I feel confident and I feel great.

31:41But there's a lot of time where I don't feel great about it. and I don't feel like I'm ready for it. I'm ready for being thrust into the spotlight, being thrust in on the tour. Because when I'm on tour and we get used to it, I can almost blank myself out that people are actually even in the crowd. So that's what helps me cope with it to actually, the adoration or whatever you want to call it. It's a really weird thing when you're out. To be honest, if you went around, if I go to the supermarket, I can quite easily keep my head down some days, But a lot of the days I put my head up and I don't care what anyone thinks.

32:17You know, it's like, just get on with it. Anyone asks me, you know. I think it's extremely normal what you're saying. Because I think you look around and assume, you know, whether we're talking about fame or not. But you look around with your friends, your peers, your family. And you assume everyone else is coping here. Everyone else is coping okay. And everyone else is maybe feels like they're worthy of fame. I'm not sure many people do. I think people are just good at pretending they feel comfortable with it. or that they feel like they deserve it, that it's warranted. If you look at what you guys do, it's utterly bizarre, you know, to have tens of thousands of people, you know, knowing a lot about you and screaming your names.

32:54That's not a normal thing to experience. So I think what you've just described is probably how most people, I mean, I'm sat there nodding going, I hear you. I totally hear you. I get it. And you do look at people thinking, oh, they're so full of confidence and they're on stage by themselves, but you don't really know what goes on behind closed doors, what front they are really putting on for them to be on that stage. It must be quite frightening for people who are actually hiding it. Yeah, and I think you probably just get good at, you know, wearing the mask, don't you, and getting out there and making sure that you look like you're confident.

33:26And like you say, there's times when you do feel it and that's probably more to do with the music and the creativity and you're detaching from that. But I don't think there's many people that are like, I'm famous and I feel great being famous and it feels really natural. I don't think that's... There are a few. We all know a few. Swap notes later on that one. I'm sure there are people. That's why I also feel sorry for those people on talent shows. When they get thrust into the limelight, they do these talent shows and they win, and then all of a sudden they're in clubs and they've got bottles of champagne, and they're almost told this dream of that they're going to be, you know, they've got an arm deal or they're going to be famous for the rest of their life, and then the year after, they're not even heard of.

34:07It's like, I feel so sorry for them in a way, you know, because they think they've got this, even like some of the boy groups that were around in the 90s that never did as well as us. And then you see people coming back on these thrown together, made up programs of 90s groups reforming with each other. And I think, God, imagine what I would feel like if I was actually in that position. But maybe I wouldn't feel like them because I haven't tasted the fame that we've had, you know, or the success. It's a cruel one, isn't it? The whole industry can be extremely harsh and difficult and that level of scrutiny as well, I think that's something that is extremely hard to get used to, whether it's having newspapers dig around in your life or articles written about you where you do feel totally out of control.

34:52It's a really big, nasty beast. And there's also, of course, the online side of it as well, which we're all having to navigate. And it is incredibly difficult and it's an incredibly sensitive area. You know, whatever you're saying, not saying online, that is becoming more and more heightened. And I know, Howard, this is something that you've had a bit of trouble with this year and something that has caused you a lot of stress, actually. I did. And you know what? I meant what I said at the time when I apologized for it. And obviously, I was very sorry to anyone that was offended. Those tweets are like, don't reflect the person I am.

35:28And I'm all about love and positivity and being inclusive. And I just want people to be who they want to be, basically. Yeah, no, it's, you know, the whole online thing, it's a very, it's a treacherous place. And we're all, you know, and it's, again, looking back at when you first started out, there were no phones at gigs. There weren't people filming your performance. People were sort of dancing. Now everyone stood still with the phone up. You know, there was no Instagram, no TikTok. It is a totally different beast. How do you find that side of it, incorporating the sort of digital thing alongside the bit you've always done?

36:01I like telling people, oh, it was good in our day when we didn't have phones and back in our day. I don't even think it's just for people who are sort of famous. I think just generally, you know, for me, I've, you know, got kids and children and trying to work out all when.

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37:49You know, when does my youngest daughter get a phone? I'm in that one now. like when when how do you do that to sort of trying to parent and and and i think howard was touching on it earlier you know trying to parent your and do a good job at parenting but at the same time you know try and do your work and try to find that balance i think between in life and the different sort of things that come along you know my kids are better than me on social media they're quicker at it they know what they're doing i go to them for oh how do i do this and they're like oh it's so easy just do this and they set me up like Pinterest like they're like oh I'll Pinterest I'm like Pinterest it's Pinterest what's this one now another new one but it but it's it's um it was great in our day when those things were around and and you know even just sat around the table like I sit down with my wife Emma and we're sat at the table and like everybody's sort of on the phones and like just trying to have a conversation like have a conversation sometimes can be, you know, tricky and we're like, okay, everybody put their phones down.

38:55I'll tell you who's the worst. My parents. When I go after dinner, my parents, they're in the pub on their phone. I'm like, all right, pair of teenagers, get off your phone. But we're all addicted to a level and we've all got to try and work out. It's quite sad in a way, really. It is. Because we make a band. If we eat at the table, we make a band and no phones are allowed even at the table. I'm quite lucky as my eyes are fading so I can't see. My arms, my arms can't go far enough away now. It's the vitamins, it's the eyes. He's got one of those selfie sticks. Do you know what, though? He did a commercial for Specsavers, and I thought, I'm going to get some free glasses here.

39:32Never once did he say. I mean, I've been mentioning for at least two years that I can't quite see. You've been borrowing my glasses. I've been waving. Just give in and have the eye test. Just give in. Have an eye test. You're doing your eyes more damage by not putting glasses on. I quite like, you know. The drama of it. The drama. And just having a nice sort of romantic blur to life. Like a 50s flair. So look, you've got your tour coming up. I saw that you announced this on Instagram this week. This is hugely exciting. I've seen many of your tours and they are getting bigger. I don't know how.

40:07The production level is just out of this world. How can you keep upping it? What is next? It's a good question. Have we ever worn that out yet? No, we haven't really. I think we're going to get Pinterest. I think when we do a tour, like a tour plan, you know, obviously things have to be, I think even sometimes up to 14, 16 months ahead to even book the venues before anyone else gets it. And then you have to do the stage design because that site takes eight to 12 months to even make, get it built. And then once all that's in place, which is the most, which is the most, a couple of six-inch nails.

40:48You do that bit. We've got to build it and then we've got to get a belt. Cement. Got to hire a van. Wheels. Axle. See if it's a driver. So as I was saying, as I was saying. Yeah, sorry, Howard. Sorry, Michael. No, no, you know, obviously it takes a lot of time and you have to be well ahead in planning. And as that's being made, then we can sort of get our heads together, which we always do. Either we, you know, sometimes we've been off to Vegas or different places, hotel rooms, coming up with ideas of different songs. And that's where the fun really begins. And I think going back to the album is when we are actually creating songs and albums, you know, we actually have a, our imagination is towards the tour as well.

41:35When you're actually creating a song, how is this sound in an arena or a stadium? What's it going to look like out of the crowd? You know, it's like sometimes when I DJ and I'm downloading. I knew he'd get DJing. I knew he'd get DJing. But he was so cool. Tell them when your gig is. Go on. No, but when you download a song, when you listen to it and you listen to headphones, you actually visualize how does this go down with the crowd? And it's exactly the same. You imagine when you're writing the song, how is this going to go down? How is this going to be performed? How are the crowd going to be?

42:10And if you get a really good feeling about it, I think you're in the right place. Yeah. I mean, it's a big tour. You always do big tours. It's a lot of dates. There's a lot of travelling, huge, huge venues, all of the stuff you've got to cognitively deal with, looking out to a crowd and wondering what the hell's going on and trying to process that. I'm trying to see them. You're trying to see them without your glasses on. Then you've got to try and sleep after and you're on a huge high. I mean, it's an emotional rollercoaster. It's a physical rollercoaster. It's a mental rollercoaster. What do you do individually to ensure that you're ready for this?

42:42It's not just about going to the gym, making sure you're fit and you can do the show. There's all the other stuff that comes mentally with it. So what do you do to prep for that? Right, so for me, because life runs alongside all these things. I was just going to say that, for me, it starts at home. Yeah. It starts at home. You've got to get the babysitters into place. When they're coming on tour, at what point are you going to get your rest by them not being on tour, which is that obviously we're talking about younger kids here. And once that's sorted out, as long as people are happy at home, especially the wife then then obviously things can start kicking off and then you know for your own mental health and your own physical health you know and obviously nutrition you've got to you've got to work on it because obviously back in the 90s you could burn the candle at both ends when you're young but now it's a different story you get an injury you could be out or you might have to cancel shows and that's something we don't want to do to our paying audience no we feel they deserve to see an amazing show us in tip-top condition and giving it everything that we can possibly give yeah i think it's so important to mention like getting everything ready at home because people just sort of i guess turn up to the tour and they see you as these sort of machines that are doing your job on stage but you've got home lives you've got you know everyone's got stuff going on at home whether it's stuff with the kids or school or whatever's going on and you need to almost know that that's really, really in place and everything's great and there's that sort of equilibrium so you can then switch off to get into show mode.

44:17It's important. Yeah, it is. It's definitely part of the prep. You know, I mean, we always say there's not a lot of downsides with touring. You know, we wake up at half past ten in the morning, go for breakfast together, have a read in the afternoon, go to the venue, have dinner together about half five ahead of the thing, then get ready, go on, have an amazing night. Our audience are always amazing. Get back and start chilling into the evening, you know, glass of red wine, whatever. It's beautiful. But meanwhile, you know, the ship's still running somewhere else. And like Howard said, it's about balancing that off.

44:56And, yeah, it's more definitely than just walking out on a stage. Yeah. And as I think as you're, for me, I always have issues with the leaving and that's the difficult part is when you're sort of saying back, you know, you're leaving out the door and you know you're going away for some time. And it's tricky to sort of even prepare yourself. I mean, I guess, as Gaz was saying, the prep starts a lot earlier than that. but it's never easy. It's not easy when you're away, especially if you're away and you know you might be missing an event, like a birthday. Or a birthday, yeah. Or a school assembly.

45:39I hate that. Yeah. I heard that last week. And you know that. I do. It's horrible. It's tricky. And that's not just, again, that's not just about all that. It is. That's not just being, like, doing what we do. I guess that's being a pairing. That's everybody. Those times and trying to find the right balance between how you do that. I mean, I'm quite lucky now because mine are getting a little bit older than Howard. So, you know, if I say, oh, do you want to come away for a week? And they sort of know friends and they can hook up with people. And that's the great thing about social media now is they look on Snapchat and they go, oh, I'm in London and so are 10 of my mates at the same time.

46:18So they can all hook up with each other and connect with each other in that way. So that's a great thing. and they quite enjoy the travelling away and doing their thing. So I'm lucky in that regard that they travel. It's easier for my lot to travel than it is, for example, Howard's lot to travel. You're in the thick of it, Howard, aren't you? Yeah. He's got the youngest kids. Yeah. Yeah, I'm the oldest. Yeah. But, you know, just I think tour, I've found that it's almost easier to keep a level of, like so we last toured together as a band in 20 whatever 19 but i i i've kept a level sort of mentally and physically since then i haven't it's always harder when you really like when we did progress and like there's times when you let it sort of drop and you don't do anything for six months and then you try and get up again and it's a little bit harder so i've found just generally for my general well-being and and this isn't whether we're on tour or not if i get up in the morning and i go for a run i have a you know and i do this on tour as well then a cold bath or things like that and little bits of breathing i love audio books and so i've just generally found a place where routine really suits me yeah just it you know whether that's food what i eat lots of water just general routine if i know at four o 'clock i've got to take the dogs feed the dogs and take them full walk around the block and i'm really good if i do that and i'm there for four o 'clock if i'm 10 minutes late everything starts to go oh i'm off i'm out of balance you know um so just just trying to find routine helps me personally and that's at home on tour if one like Like if I'm taking, this is quite funny, but like if I'm taking one of the kids in one direction, sometimes another kid will phone and say, can you pick me up in a 45 minutes over here?

48:18And I can sense my brain starting to go, malfunction, malfunction.

48:25I can't do it. I can't logistically do it. What about after tour then? Because if you, you know, I'm sure you've all got this incredible buzz going on from the tour. Not only have you got the show and the fans screaming at you, That is just a natural high, but you're playing your new songs and you're getting a kick out of that. And then you're travelling to a new location. So every day you're waking up and it's a new day, a new exciting thing. When you're back in the routine of everyday life and it might not be quite as exciting and you've got dogs to walk and kids to feed. How do you mentally deal with that?

48:59Is that a come down or is it OK? That is the exciting bit, isn't it? I love that bit. Seeing them grow and what they're doing and finding out that one of them's got interested in cars all of a sudden. That's the exciting part of your life. If their life is changing, you're growing with them. You learn about life, I think, again, through your children's eyes. You get a second time to learn about life. And that is massively exciting. Coming off tour, though, is not quite as easy as that. Gaz always explains it really well. Go on, Gary. Because you literally have everything done for you. Yeah, of course.

49:40He gets home from tea and asks his wife, can I have a gun? Every time. You know, I know she's waiting for you. She's got the line ready for me. And I've come home and I'm, oh, God, it's been seven months I've been on the road. And you'll ask for anything. Can I just have a tea? You're not on tour now. How long have you been holding that in for? I knew she was waiting. Oh, she loves saying it. I love it. I'd do the same. And you don't get one. Great. You don't get one. Get your own bloody tea. Yeah. No, but it is. It's a big gear shift, isn't it? It's brilliant. But it seems like family has been really the making of you guys as well, because having had such extreme fame from such a young age, you know, it was 17, Mark, and it wasn't just a bit of fame.

50:21It was global success. And you see people, and we've all seen it happen over the years, and even, you know, probably more recently, people that have that level of fame at a young age and go spiralling off the rails. And, you know, you feel desperately sorry and you want to help them because you can see how easy it is for that to happen with just the noise around you and the pressure that surrounds you. But none of you have done that. Do you think family has been the saving grace? Yeah, I think in many ways. I think we're very lucky as well that we are actually a group. We are actually a group of guys and we're all quite level-headed, quite down-to-earth people.

51:00And, you know, again, everything that we do, if anything is wrong or there is a problem within the band, it's always, you know, we would help each other out. You know, if you see somebody going in that wrong direction, we would help them out. So family. Family. Big, big, big. It is, isn't it? But family isn't just this, it's everything around you. It is having the right people around you. Because, again, I think when you see people go down a bad path, it's usually because they've got yes people around them. And I think you guys know better than anyone. You've got to have that team around you who are going to say when you need it.

51:35No, that's not a good idea. Or be able to have that sort of honest dynamic rather than just going yes all the time. And I think in a world... Nobody ever said yes to us. Especially. It's a good thing. But nobody ever said yes to us. It was like, no. It's a good thing. Yeah, I love yes. It feels better than no. It really does. your fans are obviously of paramount importance to you showcase so beautifully in greatest days i loved the film i loved it so much i thought it was such an interesting way to use your music and really unexpected because most would be expecting a biopic and we're sort of waiting for that whose idea was it what was the thinking behind turning the lens on on your fans i agree when when we first went to see a version of how that would look and the fact that it was a it was like turning because it started as a musical yeah that whole idea did uh and the fact that it turns a mirror on the audience they think they're coming to watch a show about us and all of a sudden they realize that's me on stage it's very powerful that and it's also for us as a band it's our appreciation to literally say, I know you've been there, we've noticed, we know what's been going on, you know, we're aware, you've had a life as well as us.

52:57So it was the ultimate love letter to our audience, really, the whole thing was. And from the story itself, a kind of parallel to our friendship too of how they were, how they came back together and they were the answer to what that girl was looking for. The answer was right there all along. And then it strangely touches the milestones of our career, that film does. It's beautiful. And what a cast as well. Love Jade, love Aislinn B. Yeah, Aislinn. What a cast. It's so cool. It's a beautiful idea. We have so many stories of, so many beautiful stories of friendships that were formed from the fans.

53:42even back in the days of the 90s when there wasn't any internet. I don't know if there was internet, but there wasn't any social media where they could contact each other that way. So it was more like pen pals. Pen pals, beautiful. I miss that era. Some of those friendships and how people have, you know, songs have gotten through cancer treatment or whatever it may be and illnesses. And it's amazing to hear. It really is amazing. Yeah, it must be incredible to look out on that audience when you're leaving a venue and you see people there that have been there from back in the day, since the 90s, that's crazy.

54:21How does it feel to sit here and think, wow, we've been doing this for over 30 years, 33 years? Because there's always this strange paradox where you can look back at an era and go, God, that feels like another lifetime ago. But simultaneously, that was yesterday. I know, it does. It does in some respects. So especially today, you know, these launch days, I think people just see them and think it's just a new record coming out. It's not. It's like two years of our work that's gone into this. And it sort of happens within 10 minutes and people sort of swipe on and then it's on to the next thing.

54:54And it's like, no, no, these are massive things. And today I actually felt that. God, it seems like yesterday we were out on the road doing six gigs a day in a Salford Van Eyre van, going up and down the motorway, trying to get a single in the charts, trying to get in a magazine. And it just seemed like yesterday. Those were the days we used to work hard. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know what, though? I look nowadays and I think, you know what? No, I wouldn't want to be a new artist now. No. I think this industry's changed so much. It's so difficult now. It's so difficult that I'm really glad we're at the point we're at.

55:35It just seems like a lot of the focus isn't on the music anymore. It's all the how to do stuff with the music. As I still believe, and going back to a lot of the subjects we've talked about here today, is that the music saved me over the years. It did. It was my answer in the years that I wasn't doing music to get back to it. It was my answer to not make me focus on fame because the music, and I believe that with anything. If the sole skill of what you do, if you let that skill go and concentrate on something else that was a partner to that skill, I think you get lost and you need to go back to the skill, the reason why people first noticed you or discovered you.

56:19Why was that? It's because I'm a singer and a songwriter. and if you keep going back to that well I think that's where the health comes from I think that's where the real reason you're here and why you should feel proud getting out of a van and all the rest of it it's not fame it's because of that skill that you do that that you go into a dark room and you and you conjure up this stuff and that that's what you bring into the world and everything else you're not in control of that don't try and control it because you can't and and accept it. Do you want to drop it? Do you want to drop it? Drop the mic.

56:51You'll drop the mic. I like that, what Gary's just saying. I've never heard him say that. But it's beautiful because it's the power of music. It's a global, it's a universal feeling. And like, you know, you're writing it, you're creating it, and that's saving you, that's keeping you healthy. But it has that beautiful ripple effect where people listening to the music you're writing have that same experience. It is the best thing ever. You know, I'm not musical at all, but I am addicted to music. I love the feeling. Like hearing your new single, when I messaged you, I put windows on and it was that instant euphoria and those melodies and it does something to you.

57:27It's a visceral experience and it's unbeatable. And you know when people talk a lot about AI and it's going to... You know, I remember when the drum machine came out. Uh-oh, there goes the drummers. They'll never be a drummer ever again. Oh, they can do samples of orchestras. That's it. They'll never be orchestrated. Forget it. Forget it. Because you know what? That AI can't come up with what I'm going to come up with next. All it can do is base its prediction on what I've already done. So that's never going to work with music. No, because it comes from the heart and the soul and the gut. And AI doesn't have that.

58:04And people recognise that. And people aren't stupid. No. So, yeah. They're not. AI can do one. Yes. Do one AI. Do one AI. Whoever you are. Exactly, you evil, sinister, mysterious entity. Well, take that. You have opened my windows today. That sounds rude. Now I've said it out loud, but it didn't when I wrote it in my notepad. But thank you. It's been an absolute joy and I'm so excited to hear the rest of the new album and good luck on your tour. Well, after the success of this show the last time I was on, who knows where you're going to go next? Who knows, Gary? Brilliant. Well done. Congratulations.

58:44Thank you. to see you thank you great what's a mic drop moment to end on from gary there in fact i need to say a thank you to all three of the guys for being just so warm and really raw actually and thoughtful i thought it was you know not only a lot of fun but very poignant too it was just very special to sort of understand more about what makes them all tick behind the scenes take that That's new album, This Life, is out on November the 24th and tickets for the 2024 tour are on sale now. I would snap them up immediately if I were you. Now, what did you take away from that chat? Do you feel like maybe you know Gary, Mark and Howard a little bit better?

59:27Come and tell us over on Instagram. We are found at at Happy Place Official. All right, back next week. A massive thank you again to take that. To the producers of this episode, Sophie King, Alan Oshka Tate, at Rethink Audio and to you beauties, I love you.

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