The Dynamo mask protected me: Steven Frayne copes with Crohn’s and feeling unworthy

0:00Before we start, this episode contains chat that you might find difficult to hear. so do check the show notes if you want more details. Hello and a massive welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton. This is the show that lets you take off the mask you've been wearing. Today I'm chatting to Stephen Frayne. As dynamo, I could do all these incredible things, impossible things, but yet on the flip side here as Stephen, I found myself in hospital beds, not even able to get out of bed, not even able to do the simplest of tasks. the oxymoron of a magician who can't even make himself a cup of tea. I couldn't fake it anymore.

0:37I was in so much discomfort and I felt so low in my life. I'm like, I can't pretend. So I do actually look at the kind of hitting rock bottom as possibly the best thing that ever happened to me. I hope you're all good and well and are finding little moments of time to do things that you like doing for yourself. I know that sounds quite basic, but that's often the thing I forget to do, like nice little things for me it's obviously hard when you're well just a human quite frankly but definitely with working kids in the mix but I've recently really tried to get back into my painting I know I've talked about this before but I'm really into painting hands at the moment I did a little portrait of my own hands self-indulgent um the other day and it was so relaxing and so lovely I had a day off work and I thought I'm not going to waste it by just pottering about doing eff all and I just loved it and it boosted me and perked me up for days so I really hope that you're getting time to do that next step for me going to an art gallery god that feels luxurious and decadent but I really want to go to the National Portrait Gallery which is my favourite gallery ever so hopefully I'm going to do that but yeah that's me saying to you do the same giving you permission I don't know who I am to do such a thing but um giving you permission to do the same.

1:53Do something nice for yourself today after you've listened to this because this is a great episode which I think you're going to really really love. So you might know Stephen better as Magician Dynamo but now it's time to properly get to know Stephen and I think you really will in this chat. He's currently gearing up for his residency at the Underbelly in Soho which is his return to the stage after 10 years and I cannot wait to see this show. We talked a lot about his childhood which you may or may not know about growing up on a council estate his dad wasn't around his mum was a teenager bullying etc all of that is in this chat we also talked about lifting that mask off of being dynamo the pressure that character essentially was causing and how liberating it is to now just be himself we also talked about how his Crohn's has affected his mental health.

2:47I mean, severely, and you'll have to listen to find out how and why, but he tells the story extremely eloquently, considering it's a tough one to tell. And of course, we talk about magic and how it has just this incredible power to make any observers feel childlike again, having that sense of awe, watching something your brain can't quite understand. It's so amazing. And he did load of magic for us on the day. It's mind blowing. You're just like, how have you done that? It's ridiculous. Oh, it was just lovely chatting to Stephen.

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4:19Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. There's a part of me that everyone sees. I'm Howie Mandel, the comedian. Apparently, I know what funny is. Funny bought me a house, but I also know what isn't funny. OCD. I've lived with OCD my entire life and people throw the term around like it's no big deal. But OCD is severe, often debilitating. It's a mental health condition that involves unrelented, unwanted thoughts that can make you question your character, your beliefs, even your safety. General therapy can help with some things, but for OCD, it can actually make things worse.

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5:57Okay, here we go. This is the show.

6:21Hello, Stephen. How are you doing? I'm really good. We haven't seen each other for four and a bit, five years, four years? It was 2020 that you came on the podcast last and I haven't seen you since. Yeah, I mean, literally straight after the podcast, I got COVID. Yeah. And yeah, that kind of wiped me out for a bit. And then I kind of disappeared for a while myself as well, whilst I was having to find new medications to help with my illness. Yeah, I mean, we've got so much to catch up on. You've had many health issues since then. You had a bad bout of Crohn's that was brought on by food poisoning, right?

6:59Yes, yeah, Campylobacter, food poisoning, which caused my Crohn's to spread to a different part of my bowel and that came with a whole new set of side effects and new challenges to try and face. But, you know, I've come out of the other side. I still have bad days but I've more good than bad so that's all I can ask for really. Yeah, I mean, you are this amazingly resilient being that seems to bounce back from setbacks almost constantly and we can kind of route that back to childhood even but even with this last bout of illness, It was extreme. You had arthritis, was one of the symptoms from this bout of Crohn's.

7:36And then that impacted your mental health because you weren't as able to do the things that you love, obviously. Would you say that was your rock bottom, the lowest place you've been to mentally? I think it got worse than that. My ultimate rock bottom was in the end of 2020. I actually, you know, I tried to take my own life. so I mean it doesn't really get much lower than that but thankfully my wife found me and you know helped me get the help I needed and you know five years later and here we are yeah I'm definitely in a happy place so this is the perfect place to uh to share some stories of magic and wonder and all the exciting things that I've kind of been working on that's keeping me going yeah exactly I mean it's incredible to see you thriving and doing what you do best and making many people happy with your magic and doing shows and making TV.

8:31But it is obviously a long journey to go from that level of rock bottom, like you say, actually attempting to take your own life to now sitting here feeling good and buoyed up and physically better. How, I mean, I know it's not a linear a path I know there's not one trick or quick fix to go from feeling that desperate and awful to where you're at now but what would you say have been the key things that have helped you get to where you are now? Ultimately I think it boils down to great people around me I mentioned my wife my doctors the therapist and also my friends and I think also people that I have never met before but taking a step back and kind of looking at the world and seeing the support that people gave me even people they didn't know me the support that they gave me that was like a different type of magic that I'd never really felt before I think I'd spent so many years focused on the magic that I do and focused on trying to trying to basically be as good as I can be at what I do and then when suddenly I was not able to do that it forced me to open my eyes to the magic around me and And seeing all that support, just that changed everything.

9:49And I realised that I wasn't alone in this. And I also realised that it's not about the magic I do. It's about the magic that is happening in the background, in the world, like the doctors of the NHS, like what they do. You know, just it's so easy for you as a person to help somebody else brighten up their day. And that moment can change everything for them. and I've felt that myself. So it's kind of, it's rejuvenated my love for life. How amazing. I mean, it is those tiny little moments, tiny little connections with other people that I think do save lives. And, you know, I didn't try and take my own life, but I was very, very depressed, you know, over 10 years ago.

10:35And it was really two people that I will thank forever that they didn't even do anything necessarily specific or special, but I absolutely knew they weren't judging me and they were there for me. And there was just something about that transaction with those two individuals who weren't even actually my best, best friends at the time. But they really, I think, sort of pushed past awkwardness and potential pushback from me to make sure they were properly checking in with me. And I knew they were there for me. And it is those little connections that can be life-changing completely. It's amazing. You mentioned it there, but connections in general.

11:20Yeah. And I think often when we lose ourself, it's because we lose connection with the world or with the people in it. And we feel that it's impossible to get that connection back. But I think one of the things I realised is that everybody in one way, shape or form feels that lack of connection on a day-to-day basis. and I think there's nothing wrong with like reaching out and you know asking someone for help or asking someone how they're doing if you know if you see them not looking the best because sometimes they just are waiting for someone to kind of come and give them a helping hand. Yeah without a doubt it's always worth you know if you're sort of thinking should I check in with that person should I ask is it any of my business I think it's always worth making sure and just checking with someone that they're okay or pushing that bit harder if you're sort of assuming something's not quite right did you know that you were on a slippery slope mentally before that or was it one of those moments where you're like snap decision out of the blue I don't want to be here anymore I think it was a combination of first off my Crohn's got so bad that every single day I was just in so much pain.

12:30Even today, every morning I wake up and for the first hour and a half, I'm in discomfort and I take my medication and slowly it kicks in. I do my treatments and, you know, give me a couple hours and I feel like ready to face the world. But every single day, you know, it's a challenge. So I think having the illness got so bad that I didn't want to face that anymore you know I couldn't see the positives in being around to put myself through that difficult time to get to the goodness right and then I got COVID and my body actually did quite well with the COVID but it built up antibodies to battle it and the problem was that the medication I was on at the time a medication called infliximab which is you have um you go to the hospital and you sit in the pitu clinic and have like eight hours worth of medication put in through an iv right now that had been working amazingly which was what led me to make the tv show i made the last time we were here beyond belief in 2020 which we talked about and it got me well enough but then suddenly after the COVID, that medication stopped working.

13:46And when you have to find a new medication, which thankfully the NHS, you know, they put everything into trying to help me find some new medication. But you have to trial something for three months before you can write it off. And I can sometimes feel in the first week that it's not working. But then I know it's not working, but I still have to keep trying it for three months and going through that toil and pain and discomfort to eventually write it off and then get permission to start another trial so I tried medications for for over I'd say it's about nine months to a year of trying different medications where they just weren't working so it was a whole year where and also when you take the medications they have their own side effects so like I was getting different symptoms and and I think I was on a cocktail of medicines at one point where I was taking like 29 tablets a day and although it eventually started to numb the pain, it definitely made me numb to the world at the same time.

14:48I didn't feel like I'd control my own body and thankfully now I'm down to two tablets a day. I don't know if I'll ever get down to zero but I'll take two tablets a day for the rest of my life because I'm feeling a lot again and I'm enjoying so much. I'm enjoying creating magic. I'm definitely not in that place that I was back then But I think when you combine all those different things, plus with all the medication, there's possibly a bit of, you know, psychosis happening because of all the meds that I was on, because it can't be good for you long term mentally. And the fact that I wasn't able to perform as well, you know, I was not able to perform at full capacity.

15:28And the thing that's always lifted me up when I felt down is going out and performing magic. And potentially a big part of your identity that is then missing. Is that part of it? Because it's been in your life since you were a tiny kid. So then to all of a sudden lose that, you know, was there a sense of who the hell am I without that? Oh, a million percent. I still definitely have elements of imposter syndrome now. You know, I'm performing again now, but I still think, oh, am I as good as I was? Will people still like what I'm going to do? You know, there's certain limitations I have that I didn't have when I was a bit younger and, you know, first starting out.

16:06but I guess that comes with old age as well you know I'm getting on a little bit now so I can't put that all down to the Crohn's disease but yeah you know I think it's scary doing something for over half your life because I've been doing magic I was performing as Dynamo since I was like 19 years old I'm 42 now so I've been Dynamo longer in my life than I've been Stephen in some respects and then when that alter ego of me feels like I'm unable to go out and perform as that person then suddenly who am I you know like what what is my purpose in life if I can't share my magic yeah well I mean that whole period was so interesting and again I haven't spoken to you since you know you've lost the name Dynamo and you've done this act of burial which felt very ceremonial watching it like it was something not only that you were making an entertaining TV show and doing something spectacular, but it was needed, that act of ritual to go, that is now dead to me and I'm moving into a new chapter.

17:08Does it feel different performing as yourself? Have you lost a suit of armour in terms of losing that alter ego? And what was it, was there sort of a sense of protection, I guess, with that name and alter ego? There was definitely for years, a sense of protection from living behind the mask of dynamo so to speak but at the same time at the height of it I feel like it also played a big part in me being scared to perform how say because as dynamo I could do all these incredible things impossible things but yet on the flip side here as Stephen I found myself in hospital beds not even able to get out of bed not even able to do the simplest of tasks so the oxymoron of a magician who can't even make himself a cup of tea do you know what I mean I'm from Yorkshire we love tea Yorkshire tea particularly that's a big loss but like you know for me not to be able to do that it it like it was super scary because I'd stay at home I'd basically become a bit of a recluse I wouldn't want to walk out on the street in case someone stopped me and says ah can you show some magic because I'd feel like I wasn't worthy of it I feel like I wasn't good enough so it definitely is a scary thing I think also you know it's quite scary sometimes just being yourself yeah it is because if someone gives you and you know we we're all exposed to this to some extent now because of social media but when you're in the public eye and you're performing or creating whatever it is as yourself not as an actor you've got one less layer of skin per se so if someone says to you I think you're a piece of shit or you're annoying or whatever, which I've certainly had all the abuse over the years for decades.

18:56You do question yourself. You can't say, oh, but that was just the character or I could have maybe done that differently. It's like, oh, my God, but that's inherently who I am. Do I have to change or is there something wrong with me? I think it makes you question so much. And I guess with Dynamo, again, you had that suit of armour of, it's a character, it's an alter ego. Whereas now, if someone says something negative towards you, and I'm sure you don't get it that often because what you're doing is showmanship and it's entertainment. But it still hurts that bit more, would you say? Yeah, because if I'm performing as myself, just as Stephen, and don't get me wrong, Stephen, there's always going to be part of me that is the Dynamo character.

19:36I'd like to think the best parts of Dynamo were actually Stephen in the first place, right? But if I'm performing as myself, I'm kind of exposed. I'm out there and if they have anything negative to say about that performance, they are directly targeting it at Stephen. You know, I don't have the name to hide behind. You know, I'm literally having to take it on the chin and hopefully I like to take any negative things and use them to help build character. A positive spin on it, for sure. I try. You know, when my nana was alive, she always used to say I had a sunny disposition. So I would always, you know, I always try and, you know, look at the glass as being like half full.

20:18Yeah, I mean, you did this even when you were in hospital. I loved it in your new show, Miracles, which me and my kids were completely transfixed by this show and talked about it for weeks afterwards. Some of the magic you're doing in this show is unfathomable. It's just like, I don't want to give it away for people that haven't seen, but the end trick that you do with the umbrella, we were just freaked out completely. And it was so beautiful, it was so moving. But many of the magic tricks in that show were inspired by you being in so much pain in hospital and looking at the relationship between human beings and pain.

20:53And I guess how much of that is mentally ramped up versus physically felt. Do you think, I mean, you know, they were incredible tricks where you were sort of testing yourself with levels of pain. Do you think that looking at your illness through the lens of magic has helped you manage the pain that you feel? Is there a way where mentally we can control that relationship we have with physical pain? I think it's flipping the word pain on its head and just basically it's not pain it's something that you can use as an experience and take that into your own life you can learn from it in a positive way I think is what I'm trying to say right you know I've had lots of negative experiences in my life as have many people listening you know and every day you people are having difficult times but I think the thing that helps you build strength is getting through those difficult times and being able to look back on them and look at the experiences that you learned and things you took away from it some obviously negative things will be things that you think about yeah but then the fact that you got through it like that's an achievement I mean it's a fine line isn't it between because I totally I totally do that myself and and and like to try and think in that mindset when I can.

22:13But I think when you've been through something shit, whether it's physically, mentally, circumstantially, you can also fall into the trap of dreading it happening again, especially with ill health when you know that you may have health challenges for the rest of your life. How do you stop your mind from going to the place of I cannot endure going through what I went through again if it happens in a year, two years? How do you stop yourself from going there? I can't live in the fear that that's gonna be the case I know it always in the back of my mind might happen but I have to just try my best to take care of myself and focus my energies on on my art you know magic is is the way I speak to the world yeah so I take everything negative and I write about it in my notebooks which it's a notebook that it's not necessarily like a diary it's just it's my magic books that I write all the different ideas in and sometimes by writing about problems this was actually recommended by my therapist Edward Sim he told me to you know when you think negative things rather than just act on them write them down in your notebook and sometimes if you look back at the negative time you're going through a week later you're like why was I even worried about that yeah you know I mean because time is you know it is a great healer I know that's a cliche to say but it really is for me and I write these ideas down but then sometimes I'll start writing and you know writing about a bad day and then suddenly my mind will open up and it'll give me a new magic idea and then but what started off as a passage about a bad day becomes a whole idea for a whole new piece of magic that can be in a new tv show and then suddenly I'm excited and I'm no longer in that bad place I'm suddenly in a positive place and you know I guess it's like I always try and approach my career like a musician because growing up, the people at the youth club that were around me, that inspired me, they were into music and into dance.

24:09So they would express themselves through dance and through making songs. And I would kind of take that blueprint, but I would write down my magic ideas, like my song lyrics. And if you look at the artists that we kind of admire possibly the most, especially me anyway, you know, are people like Eminem, Amy Winehouse, Linkin Park, like the musicians and the writers of these songs, they often put their pain into the art and made something beautiful from it. You know, like Amy didn't have an easy life, right? You know, Eminem, well, we know about all of his wars. So, you know, I think inspired by seeing what they've done and how they've transformed something negative into something positive, that isn't in one sense real magic.

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25:42Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. There's a part of me that everyone sees. I'm Howie Mandel, the comedian. Apparently, I know what funny is. Funny bought me a house, but I also know what isn't funny. OCD.

26:17I've lived with OCD my entire life, and people throw the term around like it's no big deal. But OCD is severe, often debilitating. It's a mental health condition that involves unrelented, unwanted thoughts that can make you question your character, your beliefs, even your safety. General therapy can help with some things, but for OCD, it can actually make things worse. That's why I want to tell you about NoCD. NoCD is the world's largest treatment provider for OCD and is covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. Their licensed therapists specialize in ERP, the most effective treatment for OCD.

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27:32Atlantic Union Bank. Any way you bank.

27:37It's so interesting how pain often connects people much more intensely than, say, joy. And I know joy can create lovely connections and you can eat with people and laugh and have a great time. But often it's we think that pain is going to equal rejection or being ostracized from other people. But actually, it's so connective. You know, there'll be people listening to this now who will have Crohn's or will have tried to take their own life or have someone in their life that has. And then instantly you've got that connection with them. You've got that common ground where you can you understand each other and you get each other.

28:14And I think obviously that's why those songs and these artists we've talked about resonate, because we're all going, yeah, I felt like that or I feel it. And the same with your magic. You know, it's not just you're doing a trick that wows people. There's emotion in there. And I think certainly with Miracles, you can really tell the depths of that and the fact that you you've drawn from these places of pain and discomfort and made something good out of it. It's a really amazing process. I mean, when did you start realising that magic could be cathartic in that way? Because I'm sure you didn't start with that thought as a kid, like this is going to heal me or solve my problems.

28:51You know, you're doing it. You're a showman and you want people to be wowed. But it seems now that it's sort of cutting deeper with you, maybe. Definitely. I think ultimately you touched on it a little bit there when you talked about how, you know, sometimes the pain can can connect deeper with people and I think it's the fact that we share joy right but we don't often share pain but we all go through pain and we sometimes think that we're the only ones going through it at the time so we don't want to burden other people with our problems so we often we'll often hide behind fake joy to try and you know show a good face in front of people sharing in the joyous times, but then we go home back to our pain.

29:37And I think I've kind of had to accept that, you know what, there's only so much, you can't fake, I couldn't fake it anymore. Do you know what I mean? I was in so much discomfort and I felt so low in my life that I'm like, I can't pretend, you know, and if people don't like the person that's left over, if people ridicule me for feeling weak or feeling, you know, like down some of these times, then I have to just take that as a reflection on them, not on myself. And I have to focus on just getting myself into a good place where I can't let anything hurt me. And it's not to say that things won't hurt me.

30:17It's not to like kind of shield myself too much. You know, I think it's just embracing the fact that sometimes I'm going to have a bad day. You know, I've got Crohn's disease I've got used to it now I got diagnosed when I was 14 so I know like even my medication now I have five good days a week and two bad days where I'm wiped out because the meds wipe me out but that's five incredible opportunities to do all the things I want to do in life you know and two days to spend in bed you know what I mean like win-win it's a pretty good balance but you know but that's that's me being completely reductive because of course it you'd I'm sure you'd love seven days out and about doing your thing.

30:53But you've, again, put a positive or your sunny disposition has allowed you to have that gratitude for the time you have got going out and doing something you love and creating and engaging with people. Do you think you've always been like that? Because, you know, your history, your childhood is well documented. You didn't have the easiest ride. Your dad wasn't about. He was in prison. Your mum had you at a very young age. You've had setbacks or certainly big hurdles and challenges to deal with since you were a tiny kid. And like I said at the start, you know, we've seen you bounce back from things, from big challenges, whether it's health, mental health or otherwise.

31:33Is that just your nature that you are able to find this resilience, find this positive spin on things? Or does it take an immense amount of work and courage and, I don't know, just sort of mental flexibility to be able to keep bouncing back? I think, well, I'm going to start by saying it takes an incredible amount of work. I think to survive anything, to be good at anything, you know, it takes a huge amount of effort. And, you know, that can't be undermined at all. But I think if I go right back to the beginning, right? And when I say to the beginning, I mean right back to the beginning. before I was even born, right?

32:17I was born six weeks premature, right? And also my mum, she fell pregnant with me at 16, right? She had me at 17, but like, I definitely was an accident, right? So I wasn't meant to be here. And then, you know, from the beginning, I came out into the world way too early, right? And then I was on, you know, life support and that, you know, they wasn't sure if I was going to survive. and then I lived on you know we lived on a council estate in Bath we lived on multiple council estates we were council estate hoppers um you know we tried them all out um you know I've got friends in all different areas um and trying to you know my mum was you know my dad was away in his you know um serving his majesty's pleasure and my mum was looking after me on her own she was also trying to find herself in the world and we were you know not in the best surroundings So from the off, it was a challenge.

33:10I was born into a struggle. And also my mum is white, she's English, and my father was Patan. So growing up, think about this, in Bradford City back in the 80s, when the world wasn't as forgiving or as accepting as it is today, that was a difficult challenge in itself. so from the off I've I was faced with adversity but I didn't know that it was adversity because I was too young you're just a kid it's your normal so it became my normal and then I decided you know this was I don't know if this it seemed like a good idea now but back then you know of all the things that I wanted to try and make it as you know a magician you know like I can count on my hand the number of magicians that have become, you know, like super successful that we all know, right?

34:07So to even think that that's a way that I'm going to make it off the estate, that I'm going to make it, you know. It's one in a billion. So, you know, I think that I was born to do this in one way, shape or form and I was born to face the struggle. But I feel like now when I do it, I used to perform for me, right? now I feel like I perform to show other people that we can do impossible things we can do a lot more than we give ourselves credit for you know there'll be a kid on an estate now who might see my story and decide that you know they've got a passion for something and they're going to go for it um you know there'll be somebody like say listen that might also have Crohn's disease who don't know whether they think they can make it uh I'm sitting here saying that that you can you You know, I've had it for a long time now and I found a way to deal with it.

35:01And yeah, sometimes you get bad days, but life isn't, life's ups and downs. Yeah. You know, and if you had just ups all the time, that'd be a very hard life to live up to. And I feel like, I think that's why I feel that when I was performing as Dynamo and I was on that ascension and it was, you know, going from strength to strength to strength and we're doing all these incredible things, you know, touring the world, making TV shows, winning awards. like it almost was like too much goodness that I just wasn't used to wow how interesting so how are you processing that because that is that is interesting that was it a sense of I don't deserve this or what's the catch here when am I going to get caught out you know because if you're not used to that a run of luck a run of ascension that is uncomfortable to a degree because you're used to the hustle and the fight and what challenge am I dealing with next but as you say you know you you know I sort of met you back in the day I remember when you used to come to my friend Kai's flat and do magic back in the day and then to watch you blow up into this global superstar and rightly so because of your your talent and your drive but I can imagine for you then having not been used to a run of good luck that that is discombobulating like what what's what's going on here how did you mentally deal with that and process it I think I just kept trying to ride the wave but it got to the point where I was just internalizing all these kind of all these thoughts where I didn't feel like I belonged in in that world you know I and I was trying to fake it but it just basically boiled over to the point where I was self-imploding and the thing I loved performing I was scared to do it you know I was scared to go on stage you know I mean I because Because of the pressure?

36:47Yeah. I felt like I'd found myself in this incredibly fortunate position and I didn't know what to do with it. And I also didn't have a struggle or something to channel my energy into trying to figure out. And I felt like, well, I'm so lucky to be here. I can't have any complaints. I can't complain about anything in my life and I can't share that with people because they'll look at my life and think, well, look at everything you've got. And rightly so. I had so much fortune on my side at that peak of that time in my life. So I do actually look at the reset, I'm going to call it, the kind of hitting rock bottom as possibly the best thing that ever happened to me.

37:35Because when I was going through it, I felt like my entire life was being taken for me. Everything I lived for has been taken from me. And I thought, what's the point in being here anymore? Whereas now I look at it, well, how many people get the chance to have two lives in one lifetime? And I've been channeling my energy, you know, recently, like the last few years, I feel like I've come alive again. I feel like the magic I'm creating, it's not just magic just to entertain people. It's magic that definitely for me has a sense of purpose. I feel like I'm doing something with it that is actually going to, it's bigger than just me.

38:16Like, for example, right, there's a young boy in the show Miracles that we film with in my hometown of Bradford, a young guy called Travis. And he's nine years old or he's 10 now, but he was nine years old. And he had an interaction with a homeless man. and then he went home told his dad i want to sell all my toys and i want to open up a food bank and he set up that food bank a couple of years ago now and it's helping like 200 people a month so i love that story so much that's incredible right and you know i went on like when i was at my lowest uh when i was like finding my way back my therapist told me to like you know read read the 12 steps book now i've never drank alcohol or anything um or done drugs apart from what the doctors gave me.

39:01I mean, to be fair, I've done a lot because 29 times a day. You've done shit loads of drugs. Right. But, you know, like... Legal ones. Yes. So then my doctor recommended reading a 12 Steps book and it's loads of short stories. It's a lot more than this, but it's a load of short stories ultimately that show people's struggles and how they overcame them, overcoming their addictions and the different stages they've had to go through to get out the other side. And it's an ongoing thing. So, you know, even when you go through it, like it's a lifelong pursuit. And reading the stories in the 12 steps inspired me to want to read stories of other people and how they deal with their own problems and how they take the negative things that life throws at them and flip it into a positive.

39:48And that ended up, you know, that's why I went down the rabbit hole of finding all these incredible people that I wanted to film with. You know, some of them in Dynamo is Dead, I've found with certain celebrities like Demi Lovato, like Coldplay, like people that you don't always know that they're having bad times. Yeah, I love that Demi chat you had with her. That was that was deep. It's amazing. And she just opened up about so much to you. It's incredible. Yeah, it was everybody on that show and everybody I've found with over the last few years. they've been so open and it's just been so amazing you know hearing that people are going through stuff but also hearing how they deal with it in their own special way because i think that just gives everyone hope that we can all get through this so that they actually it's quite crazy because you just reminded me dynamo is dead goes out in america today oh nice so people are going to get to see that demo the battle clip in america which is quite exciting on fuse tv out there which is cool but yeah anyway I'm going back to my my point so I came across obviously Travis's story and you know I wanted to go film with him and even better than it was from my hometown you know it showed it showed me you know if that's a 10 year old helping the world like that then it makes me feel like the world is in safe hands for the future with the next generation of people coming through right but after filming with him I was doing an interview for the big issue and I mentioned Travis and then a week later they reached out to me and said we want to contact Travis and they've made him one of the 100 young people to kind of watch who's changing the world for the good and for me like that there is the epitome of the magic actually doing something that is way bigger than any magic trick I could do you know that's going to help Travis help even more people than he's helping and it all started with me wanting to show him a simple trick do you know what I mean it's so beautiful a lovely chain of events it's so amazing and I love this I love hearing any stories like this where people have had a reset like you've pressed game over on a computer game and you're going back to the fucking start and you know I've definitely done that I think when you get to a point where nothing makes sense anymore and like you say you know you've maybe had a couple of these moments you know you've got your rock bottom moment but you've also got oh my god I'm so famous and successful nothing quite makes sense anymore why am I doing it who am I and that sort of existential you know craze that we can get into mentally of not quite knowing what our purpose is and where we're going and it's only when you press reset which usually is a rock bottom certainly was for me was for you that you have to make up the rules again because I think we all create these rules from childhood where we go this makes you a good person or that makes you a bad person or this works that doesn't work and this is how I like things to be and that becomes perhaps as you get older more rigid and the margins move into a narrower space so you're just living in this one way according to how you think and when you press reset that it just all blows up and you're like oh god I mean my old my old framework personally made no sense to me anymore I was like I was trying to keep everything under control trying to be perfect please everybody blah blah blah and then you go what the fuck am I doing and actually when you press reset and blow it all up you go right what where could I be a bit more flexible how could I think a bit differently how could I see the world and my place in it in a completely different way and I think if you get a conclusion of purpose out of that even better like how amazing that you're still doing the thing you love you're still passionate about the art of magic but there's this undercurrent of purpose there where you can like you say you've just set off this beautiful chain of events to change lives it's amazing thank you yeah it's I'm so fortunate to find myself in this place which is almost like a strange notion thinking where it came from if you'd have asked this conversation like a few years ago um I wouldn't have felt fortunate at all or I wouldn't have got to this place without going through what I went through yeah um and you know it's it's kind of it's really cool now because I'm writing magic ideas on a day-to-day basis you know I'm coming with so much new material but I'm getting to look at it and share it through a different perspective than I ever did when I was younger.

44:17And I think that's the thing as well. Like, it's a great thing about magic is that magic brings people back to that childlike state of mind when they believe anything is possible. It's awe, isn't it? We never feel awe as an adult. And then you see magic and go, I'm in awe. It's like proper awe, awe-struck. Yeah, and I think that when you're younger, you believe you can do anything. You don't follow the parameters that you have as an adult. And I think that's why it becomes a bit scarier because when you're a kid, you'll talk about anything. You'll literally, nothing's a secret and you believe that anything's possible.

44:57You're literally just living life having fun more often than not. Yeah. Right. So then when you get older, you have all these parameters that society has kind of put us on, but you have to live within the bounds of these confines. and some of them are rightfully there to help the world be better yeah right but then there's those there's certain parameters that make you as a person feel locked in feel kind of feel trapped and I think that when I've done my reset it's allowed me to kind of come back to magic with a sense of play with a sense of fun I'm not looking at it as the pressure of an adult so I think it's me starting, you know, almost starting from scratch.

45:44And I literally like I started a brand new Instagram account, you know, from zero. And it's been really fun building that up again, because it's called Dynamo is Dead, which is quite funny. But yeah, literally, I've been building that up. But I haven't made content worrying about, you know, will they like this? Well, you know, I've just been like, all right, this will be a cool thing to make. I'm just going to make it you know I'll just put it out into the world share what I love and it's been resonating with people so that that was almost like a start I've kind of got back to just doing the things I like to do for the fun of it and now I'm kind of you know I'm in the process of writing a live show which is in some ways the first time I'm doing a Stephen Frane magic show.

46:29Wow and how do you feel about that? It's kind of scary I'm a little nervous apprehensive about some of the things I want to share. But I think because I'm nervous of them, I definitely should share them because it's often the things that you're scared to put out into the world. They're the things that are going to move people. They're the things that are going to have the most impact. And I've got so many incredible magical stories that I want to, and pieces of magic that I want to share in this. And I feel like, you know, my grandpa got me into magic. He always called me Stephen, right? And he passed away in 2012 and my nana passed away in 2021 so I feel like this is a chance to show the world the magic of Stephen that they used to get to see because back when I did magic just for them I had the best time of my life it didn't matter that I lived on a council estate it didn't matter that we were poor like I had my grandparents there as the best audience I've ever performed for and they helped to nurture that talent.

47:36They showed me that, you know, I could do anything. And I think I've been reminded of that over the last few years. You know, it's weird. I feel like it's going to sound really hokey, but when I've been writing these shows, I often stay up till like six in the morning writing. I'm a night owl, right? I'm the direct opposite of that. I'm literally like, get me in bed by half nine. You have children, so you have responsibilities. So, you know, I think when I have kids in the future. But this is very common that musicians, creative people can draw a lot of amazingness from whatever you believe that creative source is in the dark hours when everyone else is asleep.

48:18It's definitely a thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely a thing. Yeah. I mean, I think when I am fortunate enough to have children in the future, they're either going to have to be night owls like me. Touch wood, hopefully they are. although my wife gets up in the day so like we could we could you know we could tag team yeah right um or I'm just gonna have to get a whole new reset on life and start getting up really early and going to bed really early yeah um but currently I stay up all night writing ideas and I'm often on my own in my I've got a little magic studio right but I do feel like I've been like trying to write this show and I feel like when I'm getting to a point where I'm like oh I I just, I can't seem to wrap my head around how I'm going to put this piece of magic in and tell this story and do this.

49:01But then somehow it just comes together. And I feel like my nan and grandpa somehow helping me. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long term contracts. Just the right expert, right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. If you're a smoker or vaper ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason.

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51:06They are here to help. that version of yourself where there was that freedom to experiment without that pressure and you were you knew that you had this talent and you and you were working with it like you said a moment ago it's one in a it's not even one in a million it's one in probably a billion that you are then going to become one of the most successful magicians on the planet on the planet like that is a far out idea for a small kid who's growing up on a council estate that they're going to do that obviously you need proper talent and you need discipline with magic because I'm sure that is a huge percentage of how you end up being so good is just practicing and practicing and practicing but the other key ingredient is drive you have got to have such drive and such ambition and you were back in the day probably around the time I first met you hustling you know getting yourself in backstage at gigs making sure you're meeting the right people doing magic for people even if they weren't necessarily interested in watching it where do you think that comes from that level of drive and the feeling that you're not going to give up I think that comes from growing up on the council estate to be honest I wasn't a big kid and I would get you know I was the easy target for the bullies so every time I left my house I was having to hustle in one way shape or form to survive that day.

52:30You know, I didn't want to go to school and get beat up. You know, I wanted to go to school and learn. But more often than not, in order to get to learning, I had to navigate not getting battered at school. So I think the drive to want to improve myself each day by getting to class, by, you know, it was scary going to school for me. But I think the fear can go one or two ways. you can run towards it and the fear of looking at the other side thinking well if I don't get to get these lessons in life you know the lessons from school that I'm going to need for my future then that's a more scary thought than getting punched in the face right now getting punched in the face really hurts right but I was willing to put myself in that firing line in order to get the education that I needed and I think that same ethos is something I've always taken with me you know now I face a lot of challenges trying to navigate the industry that we work in the entertainment industry but I can safely say that when I'm trying to perform my magic in this modern world right now very unlikely that someone's going to punch me in the face because I want to show them a magic trick yeah do you know what I mean so when I look at it like that I'm just like well you know what like what have I got to lose yeah it's extraordinary that you even had that mindset as a kid because I think a lot of times especially when it comes to bullying the natural reaction is I'm just gonna hide in my shell I don't want to go out I don't want to go to school I'll be mute I won't say anything because there's so much fear around being attacked for who you are or what you represent in the other person's eyes, whatever it might be.

54:26Why do you think you had that mindset that you could take the other route and not hide and shy away? You actually did directly the opposite and became someone that wanted to perform and show a talent to people around them. I think, looking back at it now, I actually would say it comes from my mum. But I've only realised that in the last few years. And the reason I realised it is because we were filming some interviews that were going to be in one of the TV shows in Dynamo is Dead, right? because I was obviously, I buried myself alive on the TV show. So they wanted to interview my family just in case anything went wrong, which is kind of a morbid thing when you think about it.

55:11But it shows the realities of the incredible stunt, the challenge I was going to put myself under. And I watched some of the interviews back. Now, we didn't end up using them in the show, right? But I watched some of the rushes back in the edit suite. and my mum was talking about some of the things that she'd overcome in her life but I didn't even well I kind of knew but I didn't really appreciate at the time because I think growing up I possibly I felt like my mum had made certain decisions in her life that had put us in a position that we were in like you know like my dad when she was dating him you know when she was younger he wasn't always the nicest guy, right?

56:01But she kept going back to him. You know what I mean? And I think I always didn't understand why she would put herself in that situation. So I kind of, not resented, but I just didn't understand it from that perspective. And I didn't necessarily give her the credit that she maybe deserved. Because looking back now, it's very hard to walk away from an abusive relationship. It's very hard to change your circumstances. If you're trying to figure out how to make ends meet, pay to get food to feed your child whilst your partner is in jail, whilst half your family don't want you to be in your life anymore because of the decisions you've made, then you have to find a way.

56:46You have to become resilient. And hearing some of the stories but from almost like a bird's eye perspective bird's eye view of looking at my mum looking at that interview that she gave it changed my whole perception I have a whole new understanding and respect and admiration for what she went through to to bring me into this world you know to to get me to survive basically and I think looking back now I have to give a big part of my resilience to my mum. Yeah. God, how fascinating. We should all potentially interview our parents to sort of get that story. Because I think when you're growing up, no matter what the circumstance, you just think my mum's my mum or my dad's my dad or whoever's brought you up.

57:36And I guess you don't necessarily, when you're a kid, certainly see them as a human. They're just your mum and your dad. And then maybe the age we're at now or maybe a bit younger, you can start to go, God, you know, what have they gone through? Why did they make those decisions? What have they been through to inform who they are today and how has that impacted how I've been parented? And I guess it's never too late to do that, to have that chat. It's so easy. It's so interesting. So easy as a kid to be like, oh, mum, why can't I have the trainers that my friends got? Why can't I get those toys?

58:08You know, why can't we go on that school trip? You know, you don't understand what they're going through to even make ends meet, let alone be able to pay for the luxuries that we all maybe take for granted. But yeah, I think, you know, it's been really good for me kind of reflecting back on life, you know, like feeling like I lost it and then reflecting back on what it was that I was actually, would have been losing, you know, has given me so many reasons to want to stay here and to want to take these stories and channel them into my magic so I can share things in new ways. We talked about how do I feel about writing this Stephen Frane show and it's scary, but it's also really, really exciting.

58:55I'm performing in an intimate venue. It's like 200 people for sure called Underbelly Boulevard in Soho. I'm just doing shows in London, 47 shows. I know a lot of my fans were a bit gutted that I'm not going further afield, but there is actually a valid reason. And this is my first long run of shows since I got better. So I plan to go and travel the rest of the world and, you know, take magic all over the place with this show. But to begin with, I wanted to have it close to home and close to my hospital and close to my specialist. So just, you know, it's a long run of shows, 47 shows in a row. It's not something I know how my body's going to cope with it.

59:35I've done longer runs in the past. you know my last big tour did 111 shows so I wanted to kind of ease myself back into it and you know and perform close to home and just really you know really hone the show really make it an incredible experience for the people coming to see it so by the time I do take it on the road and do bring it to a city near you you're going to get the best experience ever because I've you know I've been able to make the show from the come from my home comforts yeah and good for you like you know you're you're at an age and have the the long history of experience to know this is going to ensure that i not only perform the best but that most importantly your health is prioritized and i think when you're younger and you're hungry and you're on the ascent you know you don't bear those things in mind you just want to do the best and that's when you do end up getting ill or whatever so i think it's fucking brilliant that you've made that decision for you and your health um i'm coming to the show and i'm amazing i cannot wait you gotta bring the kids I'm bringing the kids.

1:00:33We cannot wait. I'd love to finish by asking you, Stephen, where is your happy place? My happy place is it's got to be performing magic. Sometimes it's felt like a tricky place to get to. Pun intended, I guess. But yeah, performing magic. And right now, performing magic as myself, as Stephen Fain, up close and magical. Yeah. Well, I'm so happy that you're doing what you love and your health is back on track. And I can't wait to see the live show. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thank you for having me. Oh, Stephen, that was so wonderful. So good to catch up with him. Do you know what I love about Stephen?

1:01:17And it was so interesting on the day. And it's interesting, you know, being an interviewer in general, because every experience is different. But what I loved is you asked even a question and he really intensely looks in your eyes when you're talking to him. And then he has a beat like a little pause in his brain where you can see he's forming the answer thoughtfully. And I love that about him, that he's so thoughtful and eloquent and brilliant at telling his own story. I just really loved that. And it was so cool to see the magic. If you want to go and have a look, go to Instagram. You just need to go to at happy place official.

1:01:52we were freaking out. I mean he did like a half an hour magic show for us in the end for me and my Happy Place team. We were absolutely freaking out. I mean Anushka's mind just was sort of blowing out of her ears. Stephen's show Up Close and Magical is at the Underbelly in Soho and it's opening on the 28th of March. There'll be a link in the show notes if you want to grab your tickets. I am going with my kids. All right until next time a massive thanks again to Stephen to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios and to you, just keep being you, my loves.

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