Tom Grennan

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. This is the show that helps us learn from each other's clever coping mechanisms. Today the conversation I had with Tom Grennan at the Happy Place Festival in Chiswick. I love the ocean and waves come in and go out again and sometimes it might be a rough wave and if you can ride the wave then amazing but if you're going to get swallowed up by the wave then allow it to swallow you up for a minute and hopefully then you can pop your head back out and go actually I'm all right again I'll hit the next wave when it comes. Tom sort of accidentally shot to fame as the vocalist on Chase and Status' All Goes Wrong in 2016.

0:46He tells us that really cool story in this chat and he went on to have one of the best-selling debut albums of 2018. He's just released his new album What Ifs and Maybes which is so brilliant. It is full of absolute bangers. I love it. And his voice is exceptional and it went to number one in the charts. He's done a lot of thinking recently about what he needs in order to stay happy and grounded when life's a bit of a whirlwind. More exercise and less alcohol seems to be the key for him. Okay, let me set the festival scene for you. It was a really interesting day because we had shall we call it challenging weather we were sort of ready for rain perhaps we only had a couple of short downpours but the wind was not our friend we coped it was fine there was hair blowing everywhere we had a mass evacuation at one point where a tent pole came out of the main talks tent so we had to get the whole audience who were sat patiently ready for Tom Grennan and move them to the uplift stage, which was an outdoor area.

1:59I think personally it worked out better. We had a bigger audience because everyone could join in and watch, which was great. The sky was blue. It was windy. So we were sort of dealing with flapping tent tarpaulin and hair in faces and scripts going everywhere. But you know what? It was all part of the fun. Everyone was up for it. Everyone had a smile on their face. and I just adored chatting to Tom. It's definitely going to take a bit more than some dodgy weather to stop us having important conversations here at Happy Place. I cannot wait to relive the amazing energy at the festival. Here's the chat and here's Tom.

3:02But now, shall we get out my next podcast guest? Yes. Oh, my God, I'm so excited. I've never interviewed him before. We've met at a charity festival that he sang out for us, a Copperfield event, Festifil event. But I haven't yet interviewed this man, so I'm very, very excited. please everybody give it up for Tom Grennan hi guys Tom have a seat by the way this festival is amazing I walked in and everyone was on yoga mats I'm like this is the kind of festival I love it's wind, it's hilarious for anyone who's listening to this who's not at the festival anyone who's listening back to this podcast just imagine the worst wins ever and trying to do a podcast and that's where we're at but you have valiantly stayed with us today and I'm so happy you're here I'm so happy I'm here too.

3:51What year you've had? I mean, talking of festivals, you played Glastonbury, you played a ton of festivals. Yeah. How has your summer of festivals been so far? Oh, it's been amazing, especially Glastonbury. I think for me, that was like a, thank you, cheers. That was like a bucket list festival. And then to do it with a number one album that week and going in and just seeing how many people, I didn't think anyone would turn up. I still have that thing in my head where I'm like, I asked my tour manager, is anyone there? And then I walked out on stage and there was a ton of people there. So I was like, wow, this is amazing.

4:25And the gig went really well. And then I got to enjoy the festival as well. So amazing. That's so good. I'm so happy for you. Thank you. And also congratulations on your number one album. Yeah, crazy. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I mean, it's not an easy thing to do. As we all know, to get a number one in such a competitive and oversaturated market at times is no mean feat. Did it feel as good as you were expecting? Definitely. I've worked so, so hard for it. And I put everything into this new album. And I really felt like when I was writing the album, I came out of my shell. And this is my third album, so I've put two out already.

5:05And I felt like this was the one where I was like, I could express myself the way I wanted to express myself. And I was like, this is me and I hope people love it. and it's been receptive really, really well. Yeah, they definitely do love it. That is a fact. Why do you think that is, that you were really able to go there and express yourself this time round? Do you think it is just a matter of incrementally building up confidence to feel like you can say who you are? I think so. And also the place that I'm in. I think my first album, I was like, just got out of university, didn't really know what I was doing and had some success with it.

5:42with that then came the second album and I was in a whirlwind of loads of different different things with whether it was with drink whether it was being around the wrong people and just doing silly things and then I had success with the second album and then obviously COVID happened and that gave me the chance to really evaluate what I wanted and how I was going to go about myself and what I was going to do and I just got a mindset of that I want to be a champion and I want to work as hard as I can do because this opportunity that I've got doesn't come around ever really and I feel like I've won a lottery ticket and I want to keep hold of that lottery ticket as long as I can so I was like the only thing I'm going to have to do is step out of London for a while go home to my mum and dad stop drinking got myself really really fit I'm still on that path like with my life and it's been amazing and good things just are happening whether that's with my personal life, career life, and I just want to be a nice person.

6:43That's all I want to do. Yeah. It's a really important one to put on the list because often when you're looking at a goal and success, and we've seen people do it, you can elbow your way to the top, you don't really care so much about what happens to other people around you, but it's so important to bear that in mind, not even just for everybody else, but for your own sanity, to know that you have a moral compass and that you're using it as you navigate your way to this goal. Definitely. 100%. It's a big one. And also, I love the idea of really keeping your mindset in tune because it's all well and good being very good at something and working hard.

7:27But if your mindset isn't right, you're just not going to end up where you want to. No. And it's a really, I'm not even saying that flippantly, it's a really hard thing to do, to stay in a positive mindset because everybody who's got goals will experience challenges and hurdles and things that don't go right it's really hard to keep your mind in a positive place and to keep your goal in sight without a critical voice coming in because we've all got that you know definitely you want to do something and then you've got this horrible voice going oh you're rubbish you can't do this how have you mitigated that voice i have used a thing called flipping oh yeah so if i have a thought that comes into my head i flip the thought so if the thought says that i can't do this or i'm this person or i'm gonna be i don't know it's i always say to myself no i can do that and i will do that i think it's like putting a negative to a positive and um i I learnt that by doing therapy for sure.

8:31And every time that I have one of them negative thoughts that come in, I just flip it and I go, actually, I can do that. And the little voice in your head is the enemy that you can always beat if you put your mind to it properly. I like that. Next time any of us have that horrible negative voice, just think of Tom Grennan and just flip it. Just flip it. Just send it away. It's harder than, like, it's hard at first. because then that thought will always like i don't know just fester but when you really do flip it properly for the first time you're like oh wow like this works well it definitely works for me anyway so it takes practice essentially for sure doing it again and again until it becomes i guess more automatic rather than a forced thing it's totally doable yeah yeah it's so brilliant um let's talk about therapy because you've been incredibly honest over the years talking about your mental health and the fact that therapy has hugely helped you is that something you still do regularly yeah every week at least once maybe twice I think it's important for me anyway like just to be able to speak about things whatever it might be for the past couple of months with how life has been it's been hectic and I've had to kind of like I don't know find an answer for why and why it's all happening.

9:52And just also find myself a little bit as well. I can always see the end goal. But for me, therapy always just says, just step by step, don't run at it. I'm like a dog with a bone. I want it, want it, want it. But just take my time, step by step. And yeah, that's why I do it and why it helps. Yeah, we had Johnny Wilkinson here this morning. And I know many of you enjoyed that chat very much. and he was talking about exactly that saying you know whether you've got goals or not taking things slowly moving slowly is the key to actually feeling okay rather than rushing urgently and racing through the day for what it doesn't get us anywhere so again that's something i guess we all have to practice just practice moving more slowly and not rushing our way through the day yeah i'm imagining that therapy for you was something that at times you really needed dealing with anxiety and also you talked in the press a lot about the fact that you were attacked at the age of 18 which was not only mentally damaging but physically as well yeah has that still been something that recurs that causes you problems cognitively definitely um when that all happened that was the first time i really understood what like mental health and like depression and things like that were um because i was always always that kid who was like bubbly and loved love life and i still do but when that happened i just everything just caved in and i just thought oh my god i don't know how i'm gonna get out of this so therapy definitely helped at the first time i don't i don't i don't want to talk to somebody that i don't know like this this ain't for me i don't want to i don't want to talk and say what i'm feeling to somebody who's now I'm going to just be like it's all right but actually it worked out that like I had to find the right therapist for sure and then um just go into why it happened where I am at like now and um and how to move again move forward with it always like it's always going to live with me you know and it was traumatic like it was really traumatic and then it happened again which brought back So many of them feelings from what I thought I'd kind of understood and not buried, but understood and learned about.

12:20And then it happened again. I was like, oh, my God, I'm going back to where I was. But I'm good. And I felt like I can actually just say, you know what, for these people who have done this, I thank them because it allows me to understand and gives me a few lessons as well. Like you said, when you've been through something like that that is challenging, it might live with you for a long time, maybe forever. We don't know these things. We just got to take a day at a time. But when you've got something like that in the background and it's, you know, it was in very formative years, you were 18 years old the first time it happened.

12:58How do you navigate fear? because I think fear is really destructive when we've got it in the background, when it's causing anxiety, when it stops you from moving around freely, doing what you want to do. What's your relationship like with that fear? I've never really thought about it, but I'm a scaredy cat as it goes anyway. Do you know what I mean? But I think if I'm nervous or if I'm afraid or if I have the feeling of fear, I just flip it. That is what I do. I honestly just go, everything's going to be all right. I'm surrounded by good people and whatever happens, happens. But I know that I've just got, I don't really know.

13:43Fear, I've never really thought about that. What about the anxiety? How does that show up if you feel anxious? I can't sleep. Ditto. Yeah. The feeling of just being, I'm sick all the time. I cry a lot, if I'm going to be honest. and I just feel just like I can't do it I can't do it I can't do it but again I kind of kind of look at it like the ocean I love the ocean and waves come in and go out again and sometimes it might be a rough wave and if you can ride the wave then amazing but if you're going to get swallowed up by the wave then allow it to swallow you up for a minute and hopefully then you can pop your head back out and go actually i'm all right again yeah and i'll hit the next wave when it comes it's a really really good way of thinking about it just knowing that it might come back but you can cope and you'll get through it and it's all right to be a bit uncomfortable for a while there's nothing wrong with that how have you found being in the public eye because obviously you love getting on stage you love singing you love songwriting you love making music that is in your blood it's in your heart the other bit of it comes along for the ride whether you like it or not yeah so how how does that cause you more anxiety no i find it funny do you yeah i find it so funny um i love when when people come up and say hello and say that they're into the music and every time that happens i'm like yes like i'm doing something good and it's making people happy I've never really thought of myself as famous or anything like that.

15:23The past month where all my friends and family are going wow, things have gone mad for you I'm like yeah, they have and I'm enjoying it. Yeah, good. Yeah, are you taking pauses or moments to actually go, this feels great, I'm enjoying it because again, like how you were describing earlier being a dog with a bone I'm definitely like that. If I've got an idea I want to do it, I'm urgent I'm not even thinking about what's going on around me I'm just headed in one direction and I do forget to stop and go oh I'm actually really enjoying this do you find moments where you can pause? No I feel like again I always like have the next thing in mind my mum actually like sat with me when my album came out and she said you need to take things in and you need to understand like what you've achieved and what you're doing and have a moment just to breathe.

16:19And I've been on stage recently and I've told the crowd, I've said, my mum's told me this and I'm going to do it right now. And I just stood there and just looked out. And it's been amazing. How cool. It is cool. It's so wonderful. It's really good you're taking it in because I think so many people just race through their career trying to reach the next goal. And they look back and think, oh, my God, God, I wasn't even present for any of those beautiful things that I experienced. I mean, one amazing moment that I think you're probably still celebrating internally is being man of the match at Soccer Aid.

16:54What a moment. Two on the bounce as well. Two on the bounce. Yeah. Let's just get that in there. I mean, that's a brilliant thing. And obviously you were going to be pro when you were a kid, right? You were on the way to be a pro footballer. Yeah, I played for a few teams where I thought that that was going to happen. and unfortunately it didn't but getting the chance to play with my heroes and in front of like 75 ,000 people was a dream come true not only that, like I've watched software forever and to be involved with raising so much money is unbelievable too and the whole experience you just get treated like a professional footballer massages every day like good food it's amazing yeah that's so brilliant yeah and as you alluded to earlier fitness is something that's really grounding for you really essential i need it in your routine so when did you discover this and what helps you through lockdown like i started doing the HIIT workouts like everybody else but then i was oh my god like this is my new drug yeah this is what i need and then just carried on carried on carried on and um i don't do it for anything else apart from like it up here and also i love like putting myself through brutal workouts what's your what's your thing what you what you're doing what you're saying crossfit is my thing yeah explain this to me i always hear about people people who do crossfit are so fit yeah what is it what are you doing you're doing Everything really.

18:30Right. It's like cardio plus weightlifting, swimming, everything really. It's a challenge. But I've just signed up for a triathlon, so I'm actually stopping the CrossFit. Wow. And now I'm doing a triathlon trainer. Wowee. And are you finding time to do all of this amongst everything? Yeah. At the moment, I've been doing in-store gigs for record shops and stuff. We've been doing two a day. so after one show I'll be going out for like a 5k maybe a 10k run come back do the show like if wherever I can try and get a workout in I'll be in it's brilliant yeah and also you cut right back on booze or totally not drinking yeah no I I have a drink when when I can so like after Glastonbury I had I had a few drinks but for me like that is what brings on anxiety yeah oh if I have a drink I'll be gone for a week and it's just not worth it but I do allow myself like I'll have fun with it but I know what what what and where I'm going to be for the week and I've just got to go this is going to happen I did have a moment where I was not drinking for a whole year and a half and that kind of taught me a lot about like drink and all the other stuff too and I knew that like that weren't for me.

19:52So yeah, when I can, I can, I will. But I love the fact that there's no drink here. Yeah, it's cool. It's really good and it's so strange because it's so ingrained in our culture. Yeah, I think that's what it is as well. Yeah. I just, I just think we don't need it to have fun. Well, I don't, I don't. I'm better when I don't have a drink and when I do have a drink I become loud and obnoxious and it ain't for me. Do you know what I mean? I was, that's to me, I was like knocking people's ass off. Like, No one needs that at Glastonbury. Tom Grennan just knocked my hat off. What's going on? What's going on?

20:24I have a drink now and want to go immediately to bed. I just want to go to sleep. I'm over it. I don't want a beer anymore. It's really weird, though, because also when you stop and you know that you're doing it for the reasons that's going to help you feel fit and healthy and mentally well, you've got to deal with this strange situation of going out, if it's for dinner or going out to a birthday party and everyone going, why not drinking? You're not having a drink? You're not having a drink? I know. And you have to kind of constantly deal with that kind of commentary, which is, again, really weird.

20:52And I think that's another reason why I actually do have a drink on occasion. Like, for example, Glastonbury. It's been such a big week for you. You've had a number one album. Have a drink. I'm like, in my head, I'm like, I don't want it. But I'm like, everyone else is. And if I don't, then I'm like, people aren't going to think that I'm celebrating. So I'm like, all right, I'll have a drink. But then again, that's me and my own insecurities, I suppose. Yeah, well, it's... That's something that I also need to work on. And I think I will get to a stage where I'm done with alcohol. My dad stopped drinking when I was born, so maybe if I have a family, yeah, I'll stop drinking.

21:32I just want to be the best I can be in every walk of life, so maybe I'll do it then. Who knows? Having a hangover with a kid is one of the worst punishments ever, by the way. The day after I got married, my now 10-year-old was like 18 months old. I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. The day went so slowly. Absolutely awful. But the thing is, so many of us either have in the past or still do now drink. And we notice that our anxiety flares up. But we don't actually do anything about it. We think, oh, it's just what happened. And then you do it again the next week or you have another drink there.

22:09at what point did you think oh god this is just not working this is not great there's been a there's been a lot of moments where i thought this ain't working and stuff but i think when my mum came to london and was like you i'm coming home right um and i think when i just saw my work deteriorating becoming somebody who i didn't recognize but there's loads of moments So I was like, this is not who I want to be and where I want to be at, for sure. I think also the other thing about socialising is if you do feel anxious in a social setting or a little bit nervous or whatever's going on, it takes the edge off.

22:48And that's often why I've drunk in the past at parties or whatever, because I feel so like, oh my God, I don't know who to talk to. I actually don't want to be here. And then I'll have a drink to take the edge off. How was it doing gigs or going to a gig setting and not drinking for the first time? the best gigs of my life really best tours of my life when I've been not drinking I don't drink on tour I go home I come off stage try to meet as many people as I can but get in the car and go to bed it's hard to sleep after a show but I stick on Netflix and I end up falling asleep but I think when I was drinking on tour and stuff I was just a mess like I remember I remember doing a show in Dublin hadn't been to bed had a show in Belfast missed the bus to go to Belfast I was like oh my god I'm going to have to get a train no sleep but got on the train and I was on stage and I was the crowd were here and I was like that and I couldn't sing I had to have my back to the crowd these people are going to think that I'm an absolute nightmare people still come up to me and go that was an amazing gig I was like was it?

23:57that was a bit different yeah but for me not drinking and I'm fine with it. When people are having drinks around me, I enjoy seeing people have fun. I used to have the thing in my head, I want to be the loudest in the room. I want people to think, oh, he's such a legend. He's so funny. Now I'm just, I'll laugh at the people who are really drunk and have fun without it. Yeah. And then you wake up the next day with zero fear. Zero fear. What mistakes have you made sober? Not many. Yeah, exactly. I know. You wake up just like really fresh and innocent about everything. Like I didn't do anything bad last night.

24:38Yeah. Good times. I love it. It seems like you are navigating this insanely brilliant career that you forged for yourself really well. And I'm not saying that in a patronising way because I know from being on the radio back in the day and seeing bands and artists come and go, it is relentless and the pressure is on. And it really does seem like you're navigating it really well. And I wonder if that was something to do with how you initially sort of started. Obviously, you gigged in pubs for ages and that's a really good initiation into the sort of relentless work ethic that you need to be in the music industry.

25:18But then the chase and status moment was really quick. So just talk us through that, how that happened and how you dealt with that initiation. I'd never been in a studio before. so Chasing Status was the first studio I had ever been in and I was still at university so I remember getting the call that they wanted to get in the studio and I was like okay cool let's do it and I was a massive fan anyway we wrote the song and then the next week they were like this is going to be the next single you're going to be headlining Wireless Festival and I think Wireless was like 65 ,000 people or something like that and I'd only played upon like 20 people and I remember getting on stage and I had to talk for the whole day and I had one of my mates with me he was like are you going to talk mate like are you going to say hello and I was like I'm just chilling and I was focusing like how I'm going to go about it I didn't want to have that Eminem moment and just go because in my head I was like I could have done that but I stepped on stage and out out of the back I could see Finsbury Park Pub and like I think six weeks before that I was playing in Finsbury Park in front of like 20 people so I saw that pub and I saw my dream and I was like yeah and I went on stage I bowled out and I was like wireless festival what's happening and I loved it and it was great and I was like oh my god I can do this but I know that it's going to be hard work and I know that I've got to put everything into it and that's what I've done and there was moments where I had where my manager rang me and he was like it's slipping away like you're going to have to really really like i don't know it picks up because you've got a talent but i've seen a lot of people come and go like you say it's just how you go about yourself and when i heard them them voices i heard his voice and i thought oh my god i don't want to lose it so yeah and how important is it to have very decent people around you because again most important yeah i'm sure you know you gigging and doing festivals and work in the studio you meet some people and you think oh you don't have good people around you and that's not doing you any good I've seen it you know when people haven't got good people around them for me I've got the best people around me it took a minute but I finally was like nah these are the people it just keeps you grounded family as well I've got the best family but having them people just to say everything will be alright you're doing well you're doing good keep your feet on the floor and will work as a team to get me to where I want to be, but also to get everybody else to where they want to be too.

27:58I've got the best team around me. A lot of musicians moan about them, their labels or whoever. My label's amazing and the people in there just work so hard and I wouldn't be anywhere to where I am now without them people. It's really important also to not just have yes people around you You're going to go, oh, Tom, you're great. Just do whatever you want. It's really, it can be humbling, but it's really good to have people say that is a bad idea or don't do that. It'd also get really annoying if people said yes to you all the time. Do you know what I mean? It would. What? You need something to rebel against, surely.

28:37So let's talk about songwriting, because I know that is such, again, it's like in your DNA that you've got things to say and you need to put it into song, and that is your preferred way of expressing yourself. Yeah. how cathartic has that been genuinely for you have you had breakthrough moments where you've written a song and like understood something i think understanding the puzzle of it when you when you walk into a room sometimes you walk into a room you don't even know the person in there and then you like it's like like a speed dating thing when you meet and you're like oh my god you're amazing and then you write this song and then it happens and you and you and at first you like this just sounds like good like and then it becomes a song your next single yeah and then it becomes this song and you're like wow i think for me i started writing songs that time what we already spoke about was attacked and stuff the only way i could speak about it was through song i used to come down into the living room i didn't speak to my mom for ages the only way i could speak to my mum was to write this song and my mum listened she sat while listening to my song and she was like I understand now and um yeah that must have been hard for your mum if you you know because obviously it's a really awful thing you don't want to bring it up you don't want to talk about it you want to push the feelings down but hearing something in song especially as your mum I can't imagine how moving that was yeah yeah so for me like that is my therapy as well that's the way I can really like um just tell people how I'm feeling and like this new album's like all happy and and uplifting and colorful and vibrant and that's where I am right now so yeah I've had loads of different different experiences with writing songs sometimes I've just left the room like in floods of tears and oh my gosh that needed to come out sometimes I'm in the room and I'm smashing things up because I'm so excited and then other times I've left like going oh my god I can't do this but whoa that's some wind that is that is a that is a breeze yeah calling that breeze we're rolling with it we're cracking on until someone says otherwise yeah when are you most creative do you there are certain conditions that you have to have in place so you can create in the way that you want to?

31:00Yeah, I can't do it when I'm really, really busy. I need to have a set time in my calendar. I go, right, that's the date that I'm going to start and that's the date I'm going to finish and I'm going to have to turn something on. And it's the challenge of turning it on. I think that's why I love the workouts. It's the challenge of it. And obviously at first, when that day comes, I'm like, whatever happens, happens. It's probably going to be rubbish. but we go with it. And then it will be a month or two where then I get in the flow and then it all comes out. Throughout the year, I might have little voice notes on my phone or little song ideas, which then I take into the room.

31:45But apart from that, no, I'm like Sheeran, for example. He can write on the road. He can write where he is. Do you know what I mean? Bloody Sheeran. Yeah, he's amazing. Whereas my brain doesn't work like that. like I have to have one focus and that's it. Is it easier to write a really sad song or a happy song? Depends how you're feeling. For me, like I write better uplifting songs, I think. I've never really released a ballad, a sad ballad. Maybe that's the problem. I just enjoy writing fun songs, if I'm going to be honest. There's one song on my new album called This Side of the Room, which is really like I think is my best song I've ever written but I don't think it's going to be a single because I feel like I'm I want to be a I don't know I want to be like energetic and fun when doing shows and I don't think anybody's got time right now to to listen to a side song we want to be uplifted we want to feel good yeah yeah yeah Reminds Me is my right old summer banger thank you what a summer banger like get literally get me to Ibiza but not near a club just like somewhere chilled but with good music in it so how are you going to go about the rest of the year you're going to pause for a bit you're going to you are going to take a bit of time out well i'll go on holiday next week yes for eight days but i've already started to think about my next album and i've got the studio time ready to go so as soon as i come back i'm in the studio got a few gigs here and there there's talks of going to like asia for the first time but my main focus will probably be new album i i don't want to go away for too long i think the world moves too fast and i don't know i i look at music a lot like football i look at myself in the in like the table i like i write it down like who's at the top where i'm at and where i don't want to go i don't want to be relegated and i also look at like time like that too whilst i'm in my prime i might as well well just use every bit of that prime i have got and just keep going until people get bored of it yeah does that scare you that notion of like how quickly things move and that if you do take a beat there's someone else ready to go yeah definitely but i think there's always room for more people and i'm on my own journey and songs will take me wherever they may take me and i'll go wherever they take me so yeah i'm looking forward to wherever i go so next album is going to be upbeat again you reckon yeah big definitely dance bangers yeah i don't know what it's going to sound like what it's going to be but when i enter the studio whatever happens happens and see where it goes what if you have you ever gone in there and been blocked and just thought there is nothing coming out no wow if i'm going to be honest now which again scares me too i've left every every studio session I've been in with a song it's not always been good but I've left with a song I've never gone oh my god I've got to leave and I think that's because I have that time, that's the challenge I don't leave a room without having a song but it does scare me that writer's block thing it definitely does I've only had it once with obviously not song writing but writing writing and it was horrible how long did that last?

35:09not long I kind of wrote a book and then hated it and rewrote it and it was all right but I wasn't used to it I was used to everything flowing nicely so it felt like a shock but I think also I probably learned quite a lot having that moment of having to stop because I there was no other option but yeah I I'm quite addicted to that feeling of things flowing really nicely and moving in the right direction so those stumbling blocks possibly feel quite hard when you're away on holiday, can you switch off mentally? No, not really. I'm actually going to put my phone away. For me, that's the thing that doesn't allow me to switch off.

35:50Because I'm looking at other people. I'm looking like, alright, do you know what I mean? It's just competitiveness inside me, which sometimes really annoys me. But I'm going to tip, put it away and just enjoy the time and do what I said earlier. sit back and say, wow, things have gone really, really good. And I've got to take that in and be proud of that. Buy a little camera at the airport. Yeah. And then you can still take pictures and just leave your phone in a safe. That's exactly what I will do. That's my holiday hot take. Thank you very much. Everyone, that's what I'm going to be doing. That's in my pocket.

36:29Yeah, I love it. Well, look, it's been an absolute joy to talk to you today, Tom. Thank you. Before we all physically blow off the stage. I love a jumper. and fly away somewhere, we're going to call this chat a day. We've had a really, really good stab at doing a podcast in a gale force wind. I've never done it before. And thank you all for sitting and listening to this lovely chat with Tom Grennan. It's been a joy. Give it up for Tom. Cheers. Thank you so much.

37:00Tom, I cannot thank you enough for such a thoughtful conversation. And thanks to those of you who came out and sat on the grass to listen, braving those bizarre winds. Tom and I appreciate you all massively and a huge congratulations on the new album What Ifs and Maybes. A reminder, by the way, that the Happy Place Festival will be at Tatton Park on the 2nd and 3rd of September. Loads more brilliant conversations will be happening there and I really can't wait to see you lot as well. I can't wait. I'm so loving seeing all of your photos and videos and beautiful reels that you've made on Instagram of the festival, please keep sharing them at Happy Place Official.

37:42It's just so nice to look at all these pictures and videos and relive the whole thing. Right, I want to say a massive thank you to Tom, to the producer Anushka Tate at Rethink Audio, who, may I also add, really hurt her knee and had crutches on the day, but powered on through this really hectic podcast recording. And a massive thank you to you lot for being such a crucial part of all of this magic. I love you.