Tom Read Wilson: “My quirks are my superpower!” Be ok with people not liking you

0:00Fearne Cotton: Hello there and massive welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton. Today we're heading to the Happy Place Festival at Tatton Park and I'm chatting to the utterly delightful Tom Read Wilson. I think the being very authentic I discovered by necessity when I was very young because I just sort of realized slowly but surely that the difficulties I was having with people pointing out things that were curious about me was that I didn't have full ownership of them. and I wasn't celebratory of them myself. And I thought if I could just flick that switch, suddenly it would be a superpower because they're colours in my tapestry that I rather enjoy.

0:47Fearne Cotton: I'm really excited about this episode, guys, for so many reasons. I feel like me and Tom need to do some serious hanging out. I am a keen bean. I'm not one of those mysterious cool people. And ever since I've met Tom, I've been working out like ways I can be his friend. One of them is, don't you think, right, this is my petition to start this. Don't you think me and Tom should make our own TV show or like YouTube thing, whatever the fuck it is, where we just go looking at art together and we just like hang out at art galleries. I don't know. I need a funny name for it. I haven't had time to think about it, but that is one way that I can solidify a friendship with Tom Reed Wilson.

1:30Fearne Cotton: That's my game plan. He is the most joyful human being I've ever met. So I rolled up on the Saturday morning of the festival in Manchester and I had all the feelings going on around me. Tom was my first podcast of the day so I hadn't really like seen any humans apart from Team Happy Place. So I was feeling, you know, you just feel a bit like unable to talk to humans. You sort of can't, you don't know how to say hello, how are you? Like it just doesn't come out right. I felt like that and I felt quite overwhelmed about the idea of the festival and meeting so many people that day and smiling all day.

2:09Fearne Cotton: Like all of it just seemed like a bit of a mountain to climb. And I don't want to sound ungrateful saying that. I'm not. I'm so, so unbelievably grateful that people turn up to the festival. But simultaneously, I find it unbelievably overwhelming. So I stood in the tent, probably looking a bit shell-shocked, and Tom walked in. Oh, darling. We had this gorgeous hug. He smells exactly like you'd imagine. Like he sort of walked out of a little enchanted woodland smelling like pixie dust. He's heaven. Everything about him. His skin is flawless. His eyelashes are so long and curled. As I said, he smells delightful.

2:52Fearne Cotton: Every word he utters is pure poetry. And I instantly just sort of breathed a sigh of relief. And we talked for about half an hour before we went on stage about Marilyn Monroe. And I was like, right, I feel better about life. I can do this. I can do this festival. This is just chatting to nice people all day. So thank you, Tom, for calming my nervous system and for quite frankly, getting me on that stage. and we had such a hoot during this chat. So let's talk about Tom. He is currently on tour with his show, The A to Z of Me, which is obviously the perfect name for his show because he is such a sublime wordsmith.

3:28Fearne Cotton: And we talk loads about his love of language in this chat as well. This episode is sponsored by ZocDoc. Have you been putting off a doctor's appointment or need a dentist and don't know where to start? You've definitely been there and that's why we use ZocDoc. Actually, over the holidays, Michael had a dental emergency and seemingly every office was closed. But we hopped onto ZocDoc, found an in-network dentist, had great reviews, saw real-time appointments available, which was key. It was on New Year's Day and booked an appointment in just minutes. It took so much of the stress out of the already stressful situation.

4:07ZocDoc makes it easy to search and compare over 250 ,000 local in-network providers across more than 200 specialties. So you can find the right doctor or dentist and book instantly. Ready to be seen? Download the ZocDoc app today and book that appointment on your to-do list. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C, ZocDoc. Hi, this is Monica Reinagle of Nutrition Diva. Today's show is sponsored by Nature Raised Farms. Grocery shopping can be a little overwhelming, especially if you're reading labels. And in my opinion, chicken shouldn't be complicated. Which is why I appreciate Nature Raised Farms. It's chicken that's just chicken.

4:49And their lightly breaded chicken nuggets are free from gluten, dairy, and soy. Look for Nature Raised Farms on your next grocery trip and feel more confident about your choices. Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. You know when you finally get started on a project around the house and then five minutes in you realize you're missing one thing? Somehow it's always that one thing that sends you back to the store. That's why I love this from Lowe's. If you're a My Lowe's Rewards or My Lowe's Pro Rewards member, you get free same-day delivery. Honestly, Lowe's will make the run for you, making it that much easier to get what you need.

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5:49Fearne Cotton: Right, let's do it. This is the show.

6:12Isn't this lovely because everybody's dressed to be kind of riotous in colour. It's so perfect. I know. Look at them, Tom. Aren't they gorgeous? It's really dazzling. You're all like great blooms. Yes. We only let good-looking people in. Well, I can see. Very prepossessing. I say as I bore into you. Bit early for that. It is, isn't it? Was a lady. We are so happy to have you here. Oh, I'm happy to be here. I mean, it's such a dazzling spot. All these great, broad, canopied oaks everywhere.

6:49Fearne Cotton: I know. When you drive into Tatton Park, it is so beautiful. You instantly feel calm. The trees are ginormous. There's sheep. Deer? Deer? I was reading about Tatton Park, that the reason that they're sort of fenced off some of the very old ones is because they're over 400 years old and the deer and the sheep like to have a nibble, you know. I bet they do. Well, Tatton welcomes you, Tom Reid Wilson. Oh, well, I'm delighted. We're so thrilled. And you're really busy because you are off to start your tour tomorrow. In Colchester, yes. Oh, it's just been such a joy. I did two weeks at the Edinburgh Fringe and it was so special and I haven't really been in front of a live audience for ages and ages.

7:38I did SpongeBob the musical about two years ago and I played Squidward and I had two bonus tentacles that shot out of my bottom and they had tap shoes on them because I did a big 11 o 'clock number that was tapping and I don't know how they did it to this day. They would tap when I would tap. This is the strangest thing I've ever heard Very strange Anyway, so I felt very protected by my tentacles and it was strange to go out without them but it was lovely to meet that sort of It was just so warm and also I discovered because I've not done anything ever where I haven't left the stage and I get very, very nervous Oh, do you?

8:25Oh, gosh, like sometimes not notoriously

8:27Fearne Cotton: Really? Nervous. And, sorry, I just rambled in non-secretists. You discovered backstage it's terrible. It's my favourite thing. We've already done, like, off mic prior to this. We've done a deep dive on Marilyn Monroe. We did. Did anyone see that exhibition at the National Portrait Gallery? Best thing ever. Phenomenal. Best thing ever. Like, I can't even breathe thinking about it. Yes. Like, we did a good half an hour on that, didn't we? We did, yes. It was so great. No, we want you to talk. That's why you're here. Very much right. So when you're on stage and you're doing your show, are you just chatting?

9:02Fearne Cotton: Is it storytelling? Is it singing? Is it everything? Oh, it's the whole kit and caboodle. It's called the A to Z of me. And it uses the alphabet really as the pegs on which to hang my bunting. And I use it as I think the alphabet, I suppose, if you're a logophile like me, it's the ultimate way to kind of disbosom and to share. And so I do a lot of disbosoming via the alphabet. And each letter inspires a word, which then sort of spins out into a personal anecdote or a song or a sonnet or even a tap dance at one stage. Oh, I love it. Yeah, it's very eclectic. I say it's a bit like a sort of a minestrone soup of a show because it's so chaotic.

9:48But hopefully the bits that you find in the minestrone are all toothsome. Oh, yeah, of course.

9:55Fearne Cotton: Absolutely. Nourishing, frankly. Very nourishing. Many of us will know you from Celebs Go Dating, but actually your first big TV appearance was The Voice. It was The Voice. And actually that span out of the theatre too because I was in a very, very bad, but I don't think anybody concerned would mind me saying because we all knew it, a murder mystery play called Sweet Revenge. which was a Francis Durbridge play. And he used to write plays for radio. And I have to say, they were very good on the radio, but they should have stayed on the radio. Right. Because it was sort of things like, you know, there was a character called Marion in that play.

10:38And she came on in one scene with suitcases and she said, goodness, these suitcases that I'm carrying are very, very heavy. And you're like, you could have modified that from the audio. Yes. So it was a bit dicey. And I was supposed to be a suspect in this murder mystery. And I was very unlikely. He was meant to be unlikely, but I made him, I think, triply unlikely. but well I had a thought while I was doing that play I thought I'm sort of bumbling along in my 20s my dad used to be so tickled by my penury and he used to say oh my eldest has always lived off the smell of an oily rag and I thought well this is unsustainable long term so I secretly auditioned for the voice and I honestly it was such a lovely televisual baptism because they couldn't have been kind of.

11:35Oh good, because that's not always the case on shows like that. No, no I gather not and they just, they ascribed a vocal coach recording to your style of singing then they gave you a huge choice of repertoire I mean it was very easy for me because I only really knew three songs on the list

12:00Fearne Cotton: Britney Toxic, no Bewitched, no So I did the oldest song of the series, which was from 1943, and it was Accentuate the Positive. It's like the least surprising thing ever. So great. But it's funny because it is one of my favourite songs, and there's another song that sort of celebrates optimism by Oscar Hammerstein that I love called Cock-Eyed Optimist, and I think that was sort of his spirit. when the sky is a bright canary yellow I forget every cloud I've ever seen. Oh, that's lovely. Isn't that the perfect description of a cock I've locked in? That's so gorgeous. It's like being a goldfish.

12:46Yes. And you're like, well, this lap's rather lovely. I'll forget all the previous ones.

12:50Fearne Cotton: Yeah. I like that. I'm going to think like that for the rest of the year. When you were on The Voice, you said that you feel like you're from another era. Have you always felt like that? Was that like a childhood sense that like, I don't really belong in this era? Yes. And I think it I mean, I think the thing that binds us is our passion for the arts. And with you, it's very much painting, not exclusively, but very much painting. And with me, it's always been the theatre, really. And my granny, when I was knee high to a grasshopper, gave me a stack of her original LPs. And it was the original cast of My Fair Lady and South Pacific and Oklahoma and Carousel and State Fair.

13:41I mean, it was just wonderful. And I lived on them. And it was sort of a strange dot to dot because I discovered that the man in My Fair Lady was in the most wonderful adaptation of Blythe Spirit, Rex Harrison by Noel Coward. Then I went from Blithe Spirit to Brief Encounter, which I must have seen 13 times by the time I was 12. So, I mean, what I was ingesting, I mean, my background was pretty anachronistic anyway, because I grew up on a college campus and it was all hugely protected and quite insular, very beautiful. And my dad had this amazing, delicious turn of phrase. and then that coupled with this sort of great dollop ladlefuls of Noel Coward and old musicals I think it made for a slightly eccentric 12 year old boy.

14:40Fearne Cotton: Yeah I love it and it shows how impactful and influential music especially can be when you're a kid. I think it does set the tone for a lot because my version of that was my mum and dad had lots of vinyls lying around and it would be Led Zeppelin or Queen or The Faces so all of my musical sort of taste at that point was like I don't know 1970s rock and roll so I now have the musical taste of a sort of 70 year old man like I love that era and I have my granny and you have your exactly you're literally like an 80 year old woman I really am it's brilliant I really am. And to most of the audio world, I am an 80-year-old.

15:25It's the best.

15:26Fearne Cotton: I think it does set the tone for so much. Like I've often thought I would love to have been around in like L.A. on the Sunset Strip in the 1970s. That's where I would belong. I would feel better in that era. Obviously, we don't know because there's probably equal amount of problems in that era and your preferred era. But that sort of rose tinted look back, it does feel like, oh, I would have loved to have been around then. Oh, I completely. Do you ever have sort of fantasy opening nights that you would have attended outside your life? Oh, like all the gigs in L.A. in the 70s. I would have been absolutely there with flares and platform boots.

16:04Fearne Cotton: Oh, very much so. And not having a mobile phone. Like, I know that sounds like such a basic moan, but it would have been great, right? No, do you know, most interestingly in the jungle, the thing that we all discovered, especially curiously, the people that were influencers, like Angry Ginge, we all said about two weeks in, isn't it just divine to be digitally liberated? Yes. And we all felt it so intensely and so profoundly that we made a pact, which we all kept to, to have an extra 48 hours after we left off. Oh, wow. And it's so true. You feel, slowly but surely, you feel your whole inner tempo slow.

16:55And it's the most extraordinary feeling. But the very interesting thing is that the body's resistant to it for quite a long time. And I kept bursting into tears because I could feel every cell saying, no, this, I don't know what it is, cortisol probably. Yes, yeah. This sort of, this hit, I want. So it's very uncomfortable when it's melting away, but melt away it does. And then when you get through that sort of knotty woodland and come out the other side, you feel utterly free and about a stone lighter. and with a much quieter inner voice.

17:36Fearne Cotton: Well, I think all of our nervous systems feel slightly electrocuted because we are so used to not only getting the dopamine hit of looking at it, but also just WhatsApps pinging all day. Many of us here have kids who either have gone back to school last week or they're going back. Mine go back Monday. It was a long summer. And it's the class WhatsApp. Sorry, why have I had 80? whatsapps that i haven't looked at yet which say nothing by the way yeah i think it should be embargo it's a nightmare but we're all sort of slightly electrocuted from this pinging and we're like oh this is just how it is it's normal we just have to cope with it but actually you having been in that situation where you're forced to have that removed and then feeling the benefits after like it's a withdrawal isn't it where you have to like get out of the habit of looking and having that dopamine hit.

18:28And then what, you feel stress-free completely? Yes, you do. And then your antennae shoot up, and they're still up to a certain extent. I mean, we've probably all just had that little moment with the rain there. I'm ignoring it. Didn't happen. It sort of sent a tingle to my home entertainment centre. I was like, ooh, I love that sound. Yeah, I know what you mean. I suppose we're protecting. Yeah, we're in a tent. Do you know Hermione Gingold? I don't know if you know that wonderful dotty old actress Hermione Gingold and she moved to America and a member of the press said to her I think in the 70s Hermione why you're so quintessentially English why do you never come back and she said oh my dear England's a lovely country but desperately in need of a roof

19:17Fearne Cotton: but we've got one we have and actually now we are moving it's the 5th of September I want to say today and we are moving into that love I actually love a bit of autumn and early winter I'm not good with winter in January February March April sometimes May we're still in winter but the bit before Christmas where you can have those days where it's raining or like 4pm it's dark love put my pajamas on and it's raining a few little candles I've made a bit of soup I'm watching bake off and it's raining outside. Well, also, I have to say, I think you're the queen of layering. Oh, yeah. She always looks delicious, doesn't she?

20:01Fearne Cotton: I'm always freezing, so I have to have a thermal vest like my mum and a t-shirt and a cardigan. I want all the layers. Yes, and I get excited about your sartorial wizardry from autumn onwards because it's layers That's when I know how to dress. I don't know how to dress in the summer. I don't know the rules. I don't understand how you're meant to dress in the winter. It's easy. Chunky socks, a chunky knit, a jacket, some chunky boots. Everything's chunky and delightful. So many vigorous nods then. I think the room's in concert with you. We love it. This episode is sponsored by ZocDoc. Have you been putting off a doctor's appointment or need a dentist and don't know where to start?

20:45You've definitely been there and that's why we use ZocDoc. Actually, over the holidays, Michael had a dental emergency and seemingly every office was closed. But we hopped onto ZocDoc, found an in-network dentist, had great reviews, saw real-time appointments available, which was key. It was on New Year's Day and booked an appointment in just minutes. It took so much of the stress out of the already stressful situation. ZocDoc makes it easy to search and compare over 250 ,000 local in-network providers across more than 200 specialties. So you can find the right doctor or dentist and book instantly.

21:22Ready to be seen? Download the ZocDoc app today and book that appointment on your to-do list. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C, ZocDoc. Hi, this is Monica Reinagle of Nutrition Diva. Today's show is sponsored by Nature Raised Farms. Grocery shopping can be a little overwhelming, especially if you're reading labels. And in my opinion, chicken shouldn't be complicated. Which is why I appreciate Nature Raised Farms. It's chicken that's just chicken. And their lightly breaded chicken nuggets are free from gluten, dairy, and soy. Look for Nature Raised Farms on your next grocery trip and feel more confident about your choices.

22:03Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. You know when you finally get started on a project around the house and then five minutes in you realize you're missing one thing? Somehow it's always that one thing that sends you back to the store. That's why I love this from Lowe's. If you're a My Lowe's Rewards or My Lowe's Pro Rewards member, you get free same-day delivery. Honestly, Lowe's will make the run for you, making it that much easier to get what you need. Just place your order and Lowe's handles the rest. It seriously makes life so much easier, especially when you've already got a million things going on.

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23:24Fearne Cotton: I want to talk more about the jungle, which we've touched on a little bit there. We had Ruby at our London Happy Place Festival. Oh, my chum, yes. Your chum. Your bond was so brilliant and made so much sense, although we didn't see it coming. But as soon as you had that little unity, it was like, you two are soulmates. You're meant to have a friendship. Oh, absolutely. And it's funny because I really felt awful when I first met her because it was like, I thought, I'm terrible if I meet somebody that I'm a sincere fan of. Oh, it's awful. Oh, it's awful. You can't be yourself. You can't be yourself.

24:00And you're so desperate to, I mean, I had it with Felicity Kendall, actually. because she lives very near me and I love her over, especially in the theatre. And the first time I met her, I said, oh, I saw you in Mrs. Warren's profession and I saw you four times in the vortex and I saw you in The Last Cigarette. And I listed it and I thought, afterwards, I thought, you moron, she knows what she, she knows what her credits are. She did them. And she looked, her eyes were on organ stops and luckily I had a sequel and she'd forgotten all about it and I learned my lesson. And then I just picked one and she did a deep curtsy on the steps of Gales.

24:44Oh, on the steps of Gales! What? With a cinnamon bun. With a cinnamon bun. I thought, what a delicious response. That's so great. But I was a bit like that with Ruby. The boy took the finger out of the dike and out-dushed all of this. I sort of said, I know all of your singers from Ab Fab and I started quoting them at her. And again, she was like, well, I wrote them. I do know. That's so brilliant. But, I mean, the joy of the jungle, well, for me, was that you can't escape. So she probably thought, I can't escape. But it means that you get that lovely word that you used backstage, parity, one of my favourite words.

25:27You get that parity much sooner.

25:30Fearne Cotton: Yes, you're all shitting in a hole. You're all eating rice. Like, there is an even playing field. So, yes, you can be a mega fan of someone, but you're all in it together, and that's why the show works so well. Yes, that's so true. And so that being on the wonk, because you're a super fan and you're this sort of lofty, adored figure, doesn't last for very long when you're all shitting in the same Danny, as you said. Yeah, yeah. So that was lovely, because as soon as that levelled off, she became a chum. And we realised that our frame of reference was exactly the same. I mean, for example, I don't know, did any of you see Girls on Top, which was her first big, big thing in the 80s with Dawn French and Jennifer Saunders?

26:21And they were all flatmates, this sort of dotterly eclectic group of flatmates. And their landlady was the very diminutive, very brilliant Joan Greenwood, who actually was the matchmaker for Ruby and her husband, Ed, who I think directed that. But we chatted endlessly about Joan Greenwood because I fell in love with her in the original screen adaptation of The Importance Being Earnest. and I just loved her sort of cherries and molasses voice and I knew that she did the first really important revival of The Vortex, which is my favourite coward play. And so I was pumping her endlessly about Joan Greenwood and she said, oh God, she was everything you wanted her to be.

27:12And she died very shortly after Girls on Top came out, very sadly. But it was wonderful to have that kind of ping pong with her. because we sort of strangely, again, anachronistically for me, knew all the same people.

27:31Fearne Cotton: Yeah, and also there's nothing to do, apart from when you've got these ghastly challenges, but there's nothing to do. So the whole thing is about connection with humans. And again, I think that's why the show is so popular with all ages because it is just people sat around getting to know each other, trying to find that common ground, trying to find those little moments where, you know, even Ruby and Ginge you would on paper think they've got nothing in common that they would not get on and they had this brilliant little rapport going on because you are just sat around without distraction yeah finding those lovely moments that we're sort of missing a lot today in terms of you know you don't sit on the train anymore without a phone in your hands you're missing that moment to say a quick hello to the person next to you or to make eye contact that That show is the antithesis of what we're dealing with in modern day culture, which is we're just permanently distracted.

28:25I completely agree. And, you know, we talk about finding our tribe a lot, don't we, in modern life. And I think what the jungle does is that it reveals after a measure of time that your tribe might be more to do with your essence than all the bells and whistles on top. Because I think that's why those funny relationships that on the surface don't look very likely end up happening. Because you think, oh, well, actually, they might be superficially not very like me at all. But actually, we have the same rhythm. We have the same kind of music. Our souls align. Something comes out of their solar plexus and balls its way into mine.

29:13And it's much more, I don't know, almost sort of visceral what happens between people when you strip all of that.

29:22Fearne Cotton: Yeah. Nonsense away. It is nonsense. Yes. And what was the integration back into reality like after? Because you're in there a long time in that really alien environment without your phone and without people that you normally hang out with. And you've got a structure which is the rhythm of keeping a fire going, cooking the food. but actually your usual rhythm is vastly different. Was it strange kind of re-entering the atmosphere? It was. I cleaved to everybody in my orbit because you sort of come out and it's the immediate advent of Christmas. And then I had a very, just the most delicious family Christmas with my granny who's this sort of great matriarch and is in her mid-80s and still insists on doing everything.

30:08And I muscle in to be a sous chef. and um but i mean she i'm so redundant yeah i'd sort of hover there is this sort of phantom

30:22but it was it was magical to all be together but then i think i had a delayed dip actually because um i i hate january it's probably the only thing january and peanut butter, probably the two things.

30:39Fearne Cotton: How can you not like peanut butter? I know, I know, and everybody feels that way. January, I'm on board. It's shit. But peanut butter is my greatest joy. I feel so bad. I feel so bad. Is it the texture, the clagginess? What is it? Well, it's the riddle of the sphinx to me, because I love peanuts and I love butter. But it's a melange that my tongue doesn't want.

31:09I was traumatised when I was very little because I didn't like it when I, I can't believe I'm talking about this. I love it. But I didn't like it when I was knee high to a grasshopper. And I went to a New Year's Eve party and they played an awful game called Guess the Condiment.

31:27Fearne Cotton: Oh, I used to love this. Who played it. Yes, because it used to be on, what was Timmy Mallet's show called? Whackaday. Oh. and you and so we my auntie Karen used to set this up for me and my cousin Bieber this is what we would do we would have all the things and you would have put a blindfold on and yes yes yes that's what we did and actually uh the people before me all got things I adore they had I think they had raspberry jam Worcester sauce Tabasco I just love all of those things but then I got peanut butter and and because my body was already slightly resistant to it I was sort of sorry to be coarse in this illustrious group but I was up chuckingly ill and it it traumatised me so I can't even be I had a flatmate once who was addicted to peanut butter who would just walk around eating it out of the jar that's me yeah well I tell you what isn't you is there would be little globules in the carpet no no and I I'd clean them and when you when you clean them up, a little sort of puff would tickle your olfactory bulb and I would retch and scrub and retch and scrub.

32:42It was awful. Awful.

32:45Fearne Cotton: I'm sorry, but like globules of anything in a carpet is just... No, it's not good on a tufted shag, is it? It's really not. Everything else is lovely. It's the worst. But it's so funny. Like, stuff like that you never, ever forget from childhood. Ew. I've got two of those. One. Yeah, I mean, I'm vegetarian and I've been for a long time. But prior to that, I used to hate chicken nuggets. And one time, I went to a friend's house. I must have been about eight or nine. And it was chicken nuggets. And I was thinking, oh. And you're too young to go, oh, I'm sorry, blah, blah's mum. I don't like chicken nuggets.

33:28Fearne Cotton: You're just like, I better eat them. I bet you were so polite. Oh, I put one in my mouth. And you know when it's more fat than chicken? Oh, God. And I was like, I've got to get this out of my mouth. I was like, I'm just going to the toilet. Spat it out in a tissue. I'm hiding it behind the bin in the downstairs loo. Like, awful. I can't even look at chicken nuggets. Like, you don't forget that stuff. No, you don't. What was the other one? The other one was I went to a friend's house and the mum put raisins in a shepherd's pie. Oh, no. Raisins. And I was like, I don't understand. And I was looking at it like with horror.

34:06Fearne Cotton: And I was trying to pick them out. And then I was trying not to make it obvious. I made a pile of them. So raisins and shepherd's pie in the venue. I don't mind a raisin, but I don't think they belong in anything savoury ever. They really do not. I can confirm that one for you. Do you remember that curry sauce? I think it was Home Pride that used to have raisins in it. Absolutely ghastly. And for a while it was ubiquitous. I hope it's gone. There's so many. I mean, I'm a little bit older. You're about to turn 40. Not long. Yes. But we're of this. I'm going to be a quadrigenarian. You really are.

34:47Fearne Cotton: We're of the same sort of era. Yes. And our childhood featured some weird stuff. My mum, who was like a lot of 80s mums, really like she had four jobs. She's knackered. She'd give a toss about what I'm eating at lunch. she used to put in my sandwich that squeezy cheese that's not cheese. I'll be like, I'm not eating that. I'm not eating it. Or sandwich spread. Bits of not real vegetables. What is it? Chunks of coloured stuff in a jar. In a sandwich. Do you know what I do like though that's endured from our era is Babybel. Oh, Babybel at a hip stage. Very keen on a Babybel. Harry Kane. Me too. But the other thing from our era, which is lost now, and I still, it sounds awful, but I mourn it every day, and I don't think probably anybody will agree with me, which is why it's gone, but it's the dark chocolate bounty.

35:47Oh, love. Anybody? Do you like that? You're with your people. Oh, I'm with my people. You're with me. Do you know, when I was at school, there was nothing at the sweet shop that I liked. I'm not very big on sweets. And I love dark chocolate. I love everything in higher concentration. I like my curry is hot. Yes. I like my coffee black. I mean, I really like things to pack a wallop. I think I've got a Teflon palette.

36:11Fearne Cotton: No, but I've read something about this, which is worrying, because I'm the same. I like dark, dark chocolate. I like bitter coffee, grapefruit. Apparently, the sign of a sociopath. Oh, darling. I read it somewhere, and I was really worried, because that's my palette. Oh, gosh. Yes. Oh, gosh. Does it modify with age? Because I'm so sorry. I'm hugely oversharing. You can snip this if you like. No, no, absolutely not. Nothing to be snipped. I find I just did my show for the RNLI in Dorset. And my dad lived nearby. And he said, oh, I'm going to take you out for a Nepalese curry. And I thought, oh, how wonderful.

36:56and we had the most toothsome monkfish curry, but it was very, very hot. And I was ingesting it with all the delight imaginable, but it's the other end now. And the thing is, I don't, because my palate's so sort of Teflon-y, I don't compute. And then after the fact, I think, oh, but the body is a system. Yes. There are repercussions. Yes, and nerve endings, you know, in the rectal department, are a little bit more sensitive. So I have to think ahead now. That does not happen to me.

37:40Fearne Cotton: No, no. Look, you are in a tent full of menopausal women. We get this. You are speaking our lingo. This is what we've come here to do, to talk about this stuff in life. We don't want to do the surface chat. We've done all of that. We did it in our 20s and 30s. We're here to talk about assholes. Okay? Not specifically, but I'm just talking. Like, we're here for the real chat. Oversharing is our language. Yes, so contemporaneously we share our souls and share our souls. Yes. Exactly it. I think that's the way forward. It's perfect. It's perfect.

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40:48Fearne Cotton: Let's talk about your dad, because I know that he has been the catalyst for you to go down this route of etymology and your deep passion and love for language. What's his background? Why is that his thing? Well, you know, I feel very similar to you in a way, because your dad was a painter, wasn't he? Yeah. And I know that that found its way into your very digits. It does, yeah. I have to say, I don't know if you've seen it, but Fern's portrait of Vivian Westwood I think is the best portrait of her in existence which is nuts, thank you because you can see her very soul and I was a huge fan of hers and I thought, you know, that face is a fascinating face because it's such fine bones and you can see it sort of suffused with that incandescent intellect she's so beautiful and that's what you capture because you see the sort of frontal lobe behind it.

41:46You know, it's extraordinary.

41:47Fearne Cotton: Thank you, that's so kind. But yes, so I had a similar apples and trees scenario. My dad was, he was amazing because he would have what I would call dances of the synonyms, which he does to this day. I mean, if I meet him for lunch at the end, he always says something along the lines of, oh, Sonny Jim, that was lovely, but all too transient, fleeting, brief, short-lived, ephemeral. And he'll just go and go and go until he's found the perfect word. Or maybe somewhere in the middle of all of those words lies the meaning. But he also would do it with etymology, because I remember seeing the most beautiful window display in a department store around Christmas time.

42:38and I think I was eight, and he said, look at that exquisite window display. And then he stopped in his tracks and he said, window, van der Auge from the Dutch, nothing to do with glass, all to do with the wind hopping in and out of the holes in buildings. And I was dazzled that that two-syllable word had a story. Yeah. And we used to do that all the time. and I think my siblings were interested. I was fascinated. Yeah. And it became, for me, the kind of ultimate rabbit hole that I never wanted to climb out of. Oh, I love it.

43:22Fearne Cotton: I mean, you put a lot, I love your books where you've got the story behind words, again, like Window, you know, words that we think, we don't even think about. We're just using language. Yes. We don't give it a thought. And there's so many interesting stories behind, literally every word that we use. Well, that's actually, that's why I called that one Every Word Tells a Story, because I thought, gosh, you just don't know. Yeah. You don't know. I mean, one of my other favorites is squirrel. And again, in that little two-syllable word, the Greek root is skia aura of shadowy tail, because behind that little creature is this feather boa tail that makes the shadows dance behind it.

44:03And I think, isn't it wonderful? Suddenly you're given these retinas that look at the world in a completely different way. I do it with my sproglets all the time. Dandelion, don de lion, because those jaggedy leaves look like the whole set of lion's teeth. It's extraordinary.

44:23Fearne Cotton: Oh, it's so wonderful. Language is, I mean, I find it so, so fascinating. and it's there's probably no coincidence I've ended up in a job where most of it is talking there's yes something feels very important to me about communicating in the right way and I don't always get it right obviously like I've done all sorts of faux pas and I've said stupid clumsy things to people or I've said things I regret later down the line but most of the time I'm really keen for people to understand me. And the best way I can get that across is with words. Do you feel, I don't know, for me it feels sometimes like a bit of a desperation.

45:05Fearne Cotton: I need people to get me. Does language lend itself to that view? I feel exactly that. I feel as though it's a bit like you with painting too. I mean, it's sort of, you've got the canvas there and you think that's not quite right. I'm just going to add or I'm just going to create some nuance or some additional color because you do want to convey exactly what you're feeling. And the thing is about language, it's ultimately always reductive. Because I always think there's a thing with pre-verbal children and with animals where you get a look, I'm sure you all know that look, that seems to bore into your very soul.

45:51it happens very often if you sort of fame crossness or something to kind of indicate a boundary and they look at you as if to say, in that single look it sort of says, are you really cross? I'm going to look behind your countenance and into your very soul and see how cross you really are and it's like, it's the ultimate intellect, but then of course in order to convey all of those thoughts and feelings, we need a colour palette and our colour palette is words and it's clumsy and it's clunky and it's not really fit for purpose but the more colors that we have the easier it becomes to convey what we're feeling and I know you've got Susie Dent tomorrow haven't you?

46:35Yes we have! She's a great chum of mine and she wrote a wonderful book which I highly recommend called An Emotional Dictionary and at the beginning of it she discusses something called Rumpelstiltskin syndrome and she explains that you know in that in that story he sort of says oh it's it's such a complicated name you'll never guess it and so you guess and you guess and you guess and until you can name it and there's a similar thing with emotions where the more nuanced and the more complex and the more detailed your description of the emotion, the closer you are to understanding it. You sort of unlock it in a Rumpelstiltskin-esque way.

47:20Fearne Cotton: Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, that's why I think therapy is so brilliant because you sometimes don't know why you're feeling an emotion or you're stressed out, whatever it is, until you start putting words to it. And that's the little trail that leads you to, oh, like the epiphany, you get it. Yes, and I think that's why it's nicknamed the talking cure because by talking and talking and talking, and, you know, good therapists don't say all that much. No, they don't. And then you, as a consequence, talk and talk and talk and talk and you get closer and closer and closer and closer because this funny old tool that we're given from the brain to the tongue can get us there retroactively.

48:07it's it's the most bizarre sort of two-pronged fork in existence really are there still things

48:14Fearne Cotton: that you find hard to say are you good at confrontation or terrible terrible terrible at confrontation are you i've got much better at it over the years i think i mean i definitely was like a grade a people pleaser for a long time like as long as everybody around me seemed to be okay with what I was saying, doing, how I was acting. I was like, I'm on the right path until I started to feel like deeply resentful about things, really pissed off about certain things or just really tense about certain situations. So I think probably actually when I hit 40, very incrementally, I started to think maybe I could play around with this and say a few things that I'm genuinely feeling and see what happens.

48:59Fearne Cotton: And what I realized and still am, you know, sort of five years into this experiment is when you start really saying what you mean when it's needed I don't think you have to go around saying every single thought about everything but when it counts I think you do end up pissing people off yes and that's the bit that you then have to sort of live with like be okay in the discomfort of not everyone is happy with me right now or what I've said or my decisions or how I'm living my life and that's the bit that you have to then In practice, it's not actually the confrontation bit. It's the aftermath of it.

49:35Yes, I think that's fascinating. And it's so interesting how so many people say that 40 is the beginning of that journey. My mum says it too. Do most of you feel that way? I mean, lots of you aren't over 40, but would you cite that? He knows all the right things to say. No, but would lots of people say that's the beginning of that candor? Oh, yeah.

50:02Fearne Cotton: Oh, clapping. Yes. I mean, I've got friends in their 60s, 70s, 80s, and they're like, you wait. It only gets better. Like that you just don't, you do just naturally in that cliche way, start to care less about what other people think. But the fascinating thing about you in that context is that the reason or one of the many reasons why we love you is that you are so authentically yourself. And the word authentic has been like so overused. What does it even mean anymore? But you are you, truly you, without influence of what everyone else is doing and saying or how they're acting. This is you. So it's interesting then that you still have that counter, which is, but I am worried about confrontation or saying what I truly think to people.

50:53Yes, yes, it's a very interesting dichotomy. I think that the being very authentic, I discovered by necessity when I was very young, because I just sort of realised slowly but surely that the difficulties I was having with people pointing out things that were curious about me was that I didn't have full ownership of them and I wasn't celebratory of them myself. And I thought if I could just flick that switch, then suddenly it would be a superpower because if I'm celebratory of them, then people in my immediate orbit will be and I will just be able to deflect any comments that aren't because they're colours in my tapestry that I rather enjoy.

51:45And at what age are you landing on that? I think the epiphany sort of happened in my mid-teens. That's early. It was quite early but then I think that that becoming an absolute sort of rooted reality took about another 10 years after.

52:02Fearne Cotton: Yeah. And it got a bit a bit like your journey from 40 into kind of true candor. It was sort of, that was the beginning. That was the genesis. And then about four, five years in, it started to feel cemented and then grew and grew and grew. But yes, it's funny. I suppose that's my, that is my kind of next mountain to climb, that kind of candor. Interestingly, I do it on other people's behalf. I just don't do it for me. because if it's a matter of principle, I can get very, very angry. I mean, I've hurled things at question time before. Yes. You know. I want to see that. Yeah. I really want to see that.

52:46I think there are groups who are marginalized that aren't given enough of a voice. I mean, the one that immediately springs to mind is the trans community. And I will pin my colours to the mast whenever I can. But I think somehow it's called self-advocacy, isn't it? And I can do it and I have done it, I think, twice in the professional arena. But the difficulty I have is that I have to kind of weigh it so hugely because I feel physically ill for a good day afterwards.

53:28Fearne Cotton: Oh, yeah, I still do that. You still do? Yeah, if I, like even recently, I was in a meeting and I was really honest about how I was feeling about certain things that I'm doing at work and how I'm feeling about it all and blah, blah, blah. And I felt really good in the moment of like, yeah, I'm being really honest about this. I wasn't being mean or throwing my weight around. I was just saying what was on my mind. And then that night I got into bed and thought, you terrible person. What an awful person. They're all going to think this of you and that. And then it starts spiraling because it's 10 o 'clock at night or whatever.

54:02Fearne Cotton: But I think it's riding that bit out and knowing that actually in the moment it's exactly what I needed to say and exactly how I needed to conduct myself. But it's the after bit, I think, is a bad habit that we have to get rid of. And it's just it's a habitual cycle that we're in that we can override with practice. And yes, I was just going to come on to the practice part, Because would you say that each subsequent occasion has been fractionally easy? Yeah, definitely. If I look at myself in my career in my 20s, I wouldn't have said anything to anyone. I would have just thought, I'll lose my job.

54:36Fearne Cotton: I don't want that. I'll just do as I'm told. Whereas I think that's not always factually correct. You know, you are allowed to, I mean, certainly back in TV in those days, many of us young women, you know, we were portrayed in a way we didn't want to be and we'd have to wear clothes we didn't want to wear. whatever and I would never do that these days and I wouldn't think I'm going to lose my job because of it but I think it's there is still a discomfort that you've got to and equally it's probably actually harder outside of work I think if it's with a friend or a family member to really say how you feel about something often feels worse it's more complex emotionally and yeah the ties with that person I don't think I'm not sure many people ever feel completely comfortable with it Are you optimistic about the generations coming up being better?

55:24I mean, are your kids better at pinning their colours to the master? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I think so.

55:32Fearne Cotton: I don't know. I'm forever interested in, like, all the younger generations and how they're doing things differently. Yes. I do think, like, when I look at younger women, I think, oh, my God, you know yourself so much better than I did at that age. Yes. They just are holding themselves with a bit more clarity and they're speaking their mind a bit more. And they're so informed, aren't they? So informed. I mean, it's... Completely. It's extraordinary. Their kind of socio-political knowledge when... I mean, before they even sort of... Completely. In secondary school, it's quite staggering. I think I am quite hopeful, actually, about that.

56:11I think you've got to be, haven't you? Yeah. I have to say that the sproglets in my life, I do sort of think I could pin a huge amount of societal hope on you because I think that everything you're doing, and I think they're all empaths too. Yes. It's amazing. They're all empaths. Yeah. And I don't use that word lightly, but I see it. I really see it. And I think that, I mean, I really am no expert on this door, But I think they say that empathy typically comes a bit later when you're sort of around 10. And I've seen acts of compassion in some of the kids in my life that can only be described as empathic.

57:01Yeah. Five and six. Yeah. So I think maybe that's a really heartening shift because if our lenses are spun outwards, I think that can only be good for the world.

57:16Fearne Cotton: I agree. I agree. And let's face it, some of that is because we're parenting a bit differently. Yes, I think that's so true. No shade. I'm not throwing any shade on our parents because they were doing things differently to their parents. Yes. like even living through the war post-war you know it's a very different time but I think each generation we are kind of thinking oh I won't do it like that or I'll do I'll tweak it a little bit do it a bit differently yeah our kids will probably look at us and think oh my god they got it so wrong and parent it entirely differently again you know it's just a perpetual cycle of little tweaks generationally I guess yes yeah I agree I'm hopeful about I think the next generation they They're definitely going to advocate for themselves more than we have, without a doubt.

58:01Fearne Cotton: There'll be no people pleasers. No, no, no. None of them. I think, I suppose the world is tricky, isn't it? And particularly at the moment. And we must cleave to those things where we do see hope. And I see it very much in children. And I see it in art, in the creation of art. Me too. And I see it in the theatre. Do you know, this is the thing I love best about being on stage again because I think, and it's a little bit true of here and now, because performers send a sort of laser beam across the footlights and audiences send one back of matching intensity and investment. And somewhere over the lip of the stage, something is created that is utterly unique to that day and those people.

58:58And I think when the world outside is hell-bent on destruction, how wondrous to have a microcosm that's hell-bent on creation. To me, that's the best exemplar of humanity.

59:10Fearne Cotton: Yeah, I love that. That's so beautifully put. Yes. That's definitely what I think me and Team Happy Place, in our own little way, want these weekends to be here and in London, is that everything in the confines of this little section of Tatton Park, we just create lots of good vibes and happiness and joy. And, you know, we'll each year see people walking around who have come completely on their own and then they leave in a group. Like they'll make friends with someone in a book. Oh, it's so adorable. And that's definitely what we want to do. Like we know there's all sorts of shit going on all over the shop.

59:43Yes.

59:44Fearne Cotton: But just for these two days within the confines of here, we'll just make it as lovely as we can come rain or shine and just like have a lovely time. And I do think there is a bit of a ripple effect with that in general. You can see it, Fern. You've achieved it and it's palpable. Because in the short walk from here to the tent behind, everybody, every countenance I locked eyes with was beaming. Yeah. You know, and it was sparrows far. No knobs allowed. There are none. Is that your happy blaze catch? Yes. Oh, yes. It's very much our manifesto around here. Corporeal knobs are allowed, though. Just not...

1:00:24Knob knobs. Literal knobs. No.

1:00:26Fearne Cotton: Wait.

1:00:30Fearne Cotton: But no, we do have just a lovely bunch of people. And I so agree. There is such a lovely, unique little magic created when you get a bunch of strangers in a room or a tent together. And it's pure magic. Isn't it lovely? It is. And whatever guff is spouted, you know, we need that. We do. We all need each other. It was Aristotle that said we are first and foremost social animals. And it's true. I think it's what makes us unique. We need each other. We need this connection. We need to sustain one another. We do. To round things off, sadly, because I want this chat to never end. Me too. I don't want it to end.

1:01:07Fearne Cotton: Where is your happy place, Tom? I think it has to be the theatre. And I don't mind. I don't mind if I'm treading the boards, being a thespian or being a punter. I just, I love it because I think it really is. It's the best exemplar of humanity being wondrous with a common goal. That and singing in a choir. Oh, singing in a choir, heaven. Because if you sing in a choir, lots of choristers. I think if you sing in a choir, there's no, you're not thinking about your sound, your vocal sound. You're thinking about your contribution to the whole sound. And every voice is as important as every other voice.

1:01:55And I think that's a beautiful metaphor for humanity.

1:01:59Fearne Cotton: I see a choir in my future. Like I think when my kids go to uni, that's my time. I'm going to join some sort of local choir. Oh, yeah. Well, I will be in the front row. Yes. I want to do like modern pop songs, choir style. that's in my future yes like I know it and these wonderful MDs that do these four part arrangements who are just geniuses I think it's happening without a doubt oh bliss Tom we have covered I don't even know Timmy Mallet sandwich spread chicken nuggets chicken nuggets the repercussion of a hot curry we're done we can go home you are just the most beautiful person and that is why you have filled this tent because we all adore you.

1:02:46Fearne Cotton: What you stand for, what you say, how you move through the world, you are just a pure joy. So thank you so much. Please give it up for Tom Reed Wilson.

1:02:59Fearne Cotton: I am so here for the dark chocolate bounty getting so much love in the room. Do you know that that is one of my favourite chocolate bars as well as Mick Cotton? My dad Mick absolutely loves a bounty and a dark chocolate one is his bounty of choice. And my daughter is such a sweetheart that every time we go to the newsagent, she buys my dad a bounty. I mean, he must have about 50 in the fridge at the moment. But that was a powerful reaction, guys. So here for it. And also, Tom Reed Wilson. I started this chat and I'm going to finish this chat in the same way. Can we hang out? Can I be your friend?

1:03:35Fearne Cotton: I feel like we're meant to be together. I feel like we could be married. I feel like me and Tom could get married and we'd cohabit so beautifully together. Anyway, that will not happen, but I do think we should go to art galleries and film it. Tom's new children's book, Prickle Paper's Letter Magic, is out on the 24th of September. So if you've got a three to seven-year-old in your life, I'd highly recommend that. It's a lovely little gift. And we also talked there about his dear friend, Susie Dent. Her new novel is our book club pick for September. So you can hear that festival chat with her in a couple of weeks.

1:04:11Fearne Cotton: and that was such a fun one. If you want to learn some cool new words, you need to tune into that chat. All right, I'll be back very soon. But in the meantime, a massive thanks again to Tom and to you. You are beautiful, gorgeous and glorious and magnificent and all the other superlatives. I love you.

1:04:54Hey guys, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. Okay, can we all agree that hosting is so much fun? And I really do love it. Every weekend, it's come over for snacks, let's make dinner together, and somehow the second you put out a fruit platter, it seems that bugs show up before your friends do. This is why I have to have my Zeevo flying insect trap. You plug it in and you let it do all the work. It's specially designed blue and UV light attracts the bugs you didn't know you had. And wow, did we have a lot. Like house flies, fruit flies, gnats. And then with Zeevo, bam. Next thing you know, the pests are caught in the sticky cartridge and away from your yummy treats without any mess or strong odors.

1:05:34The best part is the design is actually sleek and curved. so it hides the bugs it catches, keeping them out of sight, and when the cartridge is full, you just grab the no-mess tab, throw it in the trash, pop in a new cartridge, and then you're done. No mess, no stress. So whether you're hosting a dinner party or spending an afternoon baking treats with all your friends and you want to focus on hosting and not constantly swatting at bugs, Zivo has you covered with 24-7 bug protection. Plug in a Zivo flying insect trap so you can work smarter, not harder, and actually enjoy your time at home. Hi, this is Monica Reinagle of Nutrition Diva.

1:06:11Today's show is sponsored by Nature Raised Farms. Grocery shopping can be a little overwhelming, especially if you're reading labels. And in my opinion, chicken shouldn't be complicated, which is why I appreciate Nature Raised Farms. It's chicken that's just chicken, and their lightly breaded chicken nuggets are free from gluten, dairy, and soy. Look for Nature Raised Farms on your next grocery trip and feel more confident about your choices.

1:07:02to get what you need. Just place your order and Lowe's handles the rest. It seriously makes life so much easier, especially when you've already got a million things going on. Members get more at Lowe's. $25 minimum and loyalty membership required. Order eligible items by 2 p.m. subject to weight and size restrictions and availability. Terms at Lowe's.com slash shipping terms. Saturday, September 26th, two of combat sports' most dangerous strikers collide. Bare Knuckle. Liverpool's own Darren the Gorilla Till goes to war with Cuban powerhouse Yoel Soldier of God Romero. Plus the Bare Knuckle Middleweight Championship of the World is on the line when the reigning champ Dave the Redneck Mundell defends against undefeated British challenger Jack the Meat Pleaver Cullen.

1:07:48BKFC 94. Till vs. Romero. Watch it live only on DAZN. Sign up now at DAZN.com.