Vicky Pattison

0:00Hello and welcome to Happy Place. I'm Fern Cotton and this is the show that likes to question societal expectations. Today we're live from the Happy Place Festival in Tatton Park and I'm chatting to Vicky Patterson. You've just got to exercise a little bit of like compassion and grace and understand every time that you are in a place that's exactly where you're meant to be. When I just lose that stone, I'm going to go on the date naps. When I just get a bit better in my job, I'm going to apply for that promotion. And if you're always waiting for that when if moment, you're just never going to get any of the things you deserve.

0:34If you're always waiting to be somebody better, you're never going to get these lovely little moments in life, you know. Vicky first appeared on our screens on reality show Geordie Shaw, and she really captured the nation's hearts in 2015 when she won I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here. She's very open about how much she's changed over the last 15 years or so, and I know her vulnerability has inspired so many other people to embrace who they really are too. You may well have seen it already, but last year Vicky made a poignant documentary called Vicky Patterson, Alcohol, Dad and Me. You'll hear in this chat just how much of an impact it all had, not only on her relationship with her dad, but also her own relationship with alcohol.

1:21Something else she's been learning more about recently is PMDD, that's pre-menstrual dysphoric disorder. We explore that in this conversation too. I'm also going to introduce you to Steve. Steve, such a legend. Steve was one of our wonderful British Sign Language interpreters on stage with us at the festival. He features quite heavily in this episode and quite rightly so. Total legend. He and all our other interpreters across the festivals were absolutely fabulous. So huge thanks to them. If you're a smoker or vapor ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zinn Nicotine Pouches, you'll discover many good reasons.

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3:25Alright, let's head to Tatton Park. This is the show.

3:54Hello, my darling. Take a seat. There is so many people here. I know, aren't they lovely? We've got a lovely bunch for you. Are you good, my darling? Yeah, I'm really good. I am really nervous. I'm not a natural public speaker. You are brilliant. I was listening. Come on, as if. I know, I'm not. Everyone thinks I'm super confident, but this is a little bit intimidating, so... Do you know what? I think it's really good to say that because I absolutely love doing this festival and I love doing these podcasts. But of course, like the whole thing's nerve-wracking. And I think it's good to sort of be really honest about that, that whenever you're doing anything in the public domain or in front of people, it's really nerve-wracking.

4:36Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I'm a bit of an overthinker as well. So I'm not just like worried about what I'm saying. I'm worried about how I'm being received. And I'm also panicking that Steve can keep up with us as well. Steve's absolutely nailing it already Steve's doing our signing for us throughout the weekend and Steve, I mean, we could talk really quickly and see how Steve copes, I think he'd be absolutely fine It's going to be great Thank you Steve, you absolute legend Vicky, thank you for coming back to the Happy Place Festival, because you're in London as well, we're so appreciative of your time Thank you.

5:12Honestly mate, like I know I don't have to tell you this, but I was proper blown away when I came in London. It's just such a wonderful thing and everybody's so nice and kind and happy. I think there should be more things like this, mate. I think it's lovely. So I was honoured to be asked back. Well, I'm so glad that you decided to come back here as well because I didn't get the chance to interview the first time around. You were with wonderful Bryony Gordon. I've got so many things I want to talk to you about. And I want to start by saying from the outside, from looking at your social media and seeing where you're at and the documentaries and books and everything you're doing, you seem to be in a really good place in life.

5:50I am, yeah. I'm very careful that I don't wax too lyrically about it because I'll start to sound like a smug arsehole. It's all right, you can do that. But like anybody, there's been loads of people here who've got no clue who I am and that's absolutely fine. That's a lie. But fine, we'll go with it. But for anybody who has followed my journey a little bit or does know like they'll know that that wasn't always the case and I wasn't always like in a really good place I've had to sort of work quite hard on myself and cut loads of things out my life and cut loads of people out my life and do more of other things and stuff to be happy healthy well person um so no I take great pride in the fact that um I am becoming somebody I'm quite proud of and I'm quite emotional about it so sorry about that um but no I am I'm I'm on my way to being really happy I'd say what a beautiful thing thank you and I think like you've just alluded to a big part of being in a good place we always assume that it must have the big part of it must be the exterior what's going on in our world what we're achieving what we've got where we're at in life but actually I think the biggest key to being in a good place is liking yourself and you just said there that that's that's where you're at you're learning to have that self-compassion and uh and you're proud of yourself what do you how did you get to that place I think it's an easy thing to say yeah I like myself these days I'm in a good place but how how did you get to that level of self-compassion it's like such a good point mate like everybody looks at people and if they're sort if they've got a nice family or if they're like achieving like if they're successful in a workspace people think they must be happy you know they're doing great but actually it's not about the external at all it's completely about how you feel it's the internal and more often than not we're so bothered about how we appear to everybody else we don't focus on that but I got myself into I think quite a dark place I'd say um years of like projecting an image that wasn't necessarily who I was um drinking too much surrounding myself with people that probably didn't have my best interests at heart ultimately just not living a way that I was I was proud of um and I was on a hiding or nothing fern like I couldn't have gone on much longer going on like living that way um certainly not in the industry I'm in so I I started to I got I got therapy I got a life coach and I removed myself from situations that didn't bring us peace like contrary to popular belief like I'm actually not a very good drinker at all um I'm I'm not a very nice person when I've drank too much you know I don't and I could forgive us if I'm wrong, but like, I don't know many people who have a skin full and are just proper lovely.

8:57Like, you know, it's very rare. Like somebody is either crying and somebody's either fighting or somebody's like, I just want to go home. Yeah. Yeah. As soon as I feel like anywhere near intoxicated, I think, how can I get out of here? How can I get to bed really quickly? Oh, you're the elusive backdoorer. Oh, you want to see me. I don't say goodbye to anyone. I vanish I literally disappear in a puff of smoke I read somewhere that the people who do that the people who backdoor parties save three years of their life oh fantastic I read I've done it so often we might be on like 10 years you're smashing it mate yeah yeah um but no I'm and I unfortunately was one of these like horrible combinations of all of them like I'd go through it all like I'd cry I'd want to kiss everybody and then I'd want to fight everyone it was just awful um and And I obviously have a very complicated relationship with alcohol.

9:53And given me dad's illness, I realized that I had to really address me relationship with it, you know. So it led us to work out that actually I'm not a club person. I'm not a big drinker. And the people that I was knocking around with who I only saw in those sort of scenarios, like they weren't really the people for me either. so over the last I'd say like five years I've changed the way I socialize I've changed the people I say I spend time with um I focus a lot more on sort of the things that bring me peace I don't put myself in situations like often that bring us anxiety and will lead us to drink too much you know because I know it's just not it's not good for us so that's been a huge part but Yeah, like, I advocate for, like, therapy and talking through your problems and counselling and stuff loads because that's really helped me.

10:50Yeah, without a doubt. Just unpicking everything. I feel so sorry for you, mate. Don't worry. We've all been there. We've all been there. It's your dad. Is he all right? Right. Did you do that? I do it every time. Oh, for God's sake. Can you just tell him that you're watching a podcast with Vicky Patterson and you will get it to him later. He's going to have no good way. Because I'm now going to have to worry about that as well as if this interview's any good. So just, if you could put my mind at ease and then I'll crack on. Thank you, darling. Where was I? Yes, do you know what? Newspapers. Yeah, newspapers.

11:34I absolutely loved that documentary that you made about your dad. I thought it was incredibly courageous courageous because not only was it you know you were on a learning curve and exploring the subject of alcohol but you also had to have conversations with your dad that you hadn't had before and it's so strange I think there's always this sort of discord with our parents or carers whoever we've grown up with that we can have a laugh we can have light-hearted chat but it's very difficult to get into the arena of talking about very real subjects and things that we're all aware of, but nobody talks about.

12:12So this was new territory for you, having to approach his drinking and asking him about it and asking him to make changes. It was very, very challenging for you to do that. The whole thing was dead scary, Fern. Apart from anything else, I'm in a new space professionally. I haven't made a documentary before. I haven't made an author doc so that space was new um and I was trying to do my best in that arena but then also you've got this huge personal element um which I couldn't ignore you know and it's so hard like when you as a child have to almost flip the script and parent your parent like that's not natural and having those conversations are uncomfortable and awkward and hard and that's why we avoid having them because it's so much easier to just laugh about it or make a silly joke or ignore it entirely but actually that's what I'd realized I'd been doing through making the documentary I discovered that for all of my adult life I was my dad has been an alcoholic and um I'd been enabling him essentially by brushing things under the carpet and not holding them accountable and God doing those things to someone who you know is vulnerable and you know is hurting and you know is not doing these things on purpose it hurts you feel like a dickhead and you don't want to make anything worse for them when you know they're completely going through it but the fact of the matter is by ignoring it and acting like it's not happening or in some way excusing his behavior you're enabling him to continue doing it to hurt himself so are you why did you feel worried to say anything because you didn't want to upset him further so you're trying to sort of it's a difficult thing isn't it because you're trying to protect him by not mentioning it but like you say that ends up facilitating the cycle to continue so extremely challenging to to walk into that conversation and to bring up new subject matters do you think you can find peace knowing that he might not ever stop drinking the documentary was like super illuminating because it allowed me to address things with my dad that I've been hiding from for like 20 years.

14:34It allowed me dad to speak openly about something that, quite frankly, like he's never been able to get a handle of. And it brought us closer. It really did. And it gave me a deeper understanding of what he's going through. But it did, it did obviously make us realize that alcoholic recovery is not linear. like you know you don't just wake up one day and go god drink is rubbish I'm fucking over this like you are if you are an addict of any description you are always going to struggle and that's a really bit of pill to swallow because for my whole life I've been able to convince myself that one day my dad will just wake up and be alright sorry but accepting that every day will be a struggle for my dad was really hard.

15:33And God hard for him as well, you know? Yeah. So, I am grateful to Channel 4 and the documentary and everybody who watched it for loads of reasons. But it didn't mean that the outcome was like, it didn't mean that the outcome was great. It was really hard. but I have to look on the bright side and say that it's brought me and him loads closer I understand his illness better um and I can support him in a way that is actually helpful rather than just facilitating them yeah yeah thank you for showing that Vicky I mean we also saw in the documentary you talking about your own past and you know like most people in their 20s you were going out loads you were drinking you were getting into all sorts of chaos but you were doing it under the scrutiny of the public eye, which is never much fun.

16:32Especially when you then, like all humans, change and grow. And I'm sure most of us sat here today in this lovely tent can look back at parts of our lives and think, oh God, wish I hadn't done that. And we have regret or we cringe about certain things. Did it help you find some sort of clarity or peace with you in the past? Yeah, definitely. I think, oh God. So everybody's seen me having a really good time in my 20s, haven't they? For better or worse. And that was, I think had I not done the documentary and had I not learned a lot about alcoholism and stuff, I don't think I would have understood a lot of my triggers.

17:21So I am not a very, like I struggle in social situations, which again shocks loads of people. They think, gosh, you must be dead confident and dead outgoing, and I'm not. I've got a bouncy leg, like I'm looking around, I bite my nails, I can't wait to fucking go home. I'm just scared the whole time. And like people can mistake it for arrogance or ignorance or whatever. I'm just terrified. I'm terrified. someone's going to ask us something I don't want to answer or I'm going to say something wrong or whatever, the whole thing doesn't bring me peace so I would drink and you can imagine being on a shore like Geordie Shore I'm a coiled spring I was nervous the whole time terrified of what I was going to say or do something wrong or that somebody wasn't going to like us so I did, the only thing that I'd been conditioned to understand would calm us down and that was drink and of course then I made everything worse didn't I because you go on like such well I did not everybody but I would go on like such an arsehole so then I would have to deal with that all the next day the apologies the guilt the whatever and I guarantee what's going to help take that away was drink yeah so it was this horrible toxic cycle and doing the documentary allowed me to realize oh god I'm not good in big social situations that's why I turned something like a social lubricant like alcohol.

18:51And I don't love like X, Y, and Z. That's why I drink more and I struggle with guilt, whatever it is. So no, doing the documentary was instrumental in me improving my relationship with alcohol. I think it's really good to hear about social anxiety. I certainly have it. And again, that might surprise some people, might not surprise some people. I love communicating. I'm much better one-on-one with someone if I'm having a cup of tea with someone or at someone's house. But those big social situations, I feel exactly the same. I probably in my 20s did absolutely deal with it, drinking and just sort of, yeah, having a gin and tonic to sort of take the edge off.

19:30Now, I just don't go out. That's my coping mechanism. I just don't go. I think so many people suffer with that and feel we can look around a room at a party or even something like all sitting in this tent today and assume that everybody else around us feels a level of comfort. Like they don't like they're coping all right with this social situation. Whereas probably 90 % of us are in our heads going, am I sitting weird? Do I look all right? What's my hair doing at the back? I can't actually see what's going on right there. Like we're just worrying constantly about every little judgment that someone might have.

19:59So, and in our country, it's a go-to like you, you know, cheers, you have a drink, it's someone's birthday, cheers. It's so ingrained in the way we sort of move through the year. So it's really good to sort of unpick that and look at what we use to ease that social anxiety. I also think it's really important in the conversation of, I guess, self-improvement. We're in this strange time where wellness is talked about a lot more and in good ways and maybe less helpful ways. And I sometimes feel a bit irked when we talk about self-improvement and like there's this better version of us in the future and that version of us will cope with life and everything is going to be fine.

20:43And I think we've got to find the middle ground with that, which I believe you've found really perfectly. So you make changes, you lose things that aren't working for you, but you don't become this brand new person and then sort of hate on the old you. I think it's so important in this self-improvement journey, whatever language you want to use, that we can look back and not abandon old versions of ourselves because I certainly went through a phase where I thought oh god I'm so embarrassed by young me oh my god cringe like me on kids tv hey doing all this stuff embarrassed don't want to look at it abandoned and that's the worst thing you can do we've got to change and grow but not ditch parts of ourselves I think that's it's a fine line and it's really tricky to do but it's imperative if you want to feel okay yeah and it's a hard one isn't it yeah like I struggled so much with the version of me that was presented in the early 20s, you know?

21:38And like, for a long time, I've tried to distance myself from that image. But I've got to take accountability, you know? Like, regardless of the fact that I was on a show and there was pressure and there was whatever else, like, I did do those things. And like, regardless of whether the cameras were on or not, I probably would have behaved in a very similar way. That's just who I was, you know? I was brash, I was aggressive I was lost, I was misguided and I was struggling to deal with things that were going on at home and I used alcohol as a coping mechanism, right? and it would be dead easy for us to be like oh but I don't recognise that girl now like I drink green juice and I do 5am yoga and I give birth to an avocado but it's not fair if it wasn't for that girl I wouldn't be where I am now and we need to stop being so hard on ourselves because in 10 years time, this version of me here, I'm not going to recognize her either.

22:36Doesn't mean she wasn't great. Doesn't mean that she didn't like, she didn't like grow and change and evolve and try and be better and do brilliant things. Like you've just got to exercise a little bit of like compassion and grace and understand every time that you are in a place, that's exactly where you're meant to be. Yeah. I read somewhere that there's this like when I just movement you know when I just lose that stone I'm going to go on the date naps like when I just get a bit better I'm going to do this when I just get a bit better in my job I'm going to apply for that promotion and if you're always waiting for that when if moment you're never going to get fucking anything yeah you're not like seize the date is that how the quote actually ended yeah I believe I recorded it for beta.

23:30But no, like, you're just never going to get any of the things you deserve if you're always waiting to be somebody better. You're never going to get these lovely little moments in life, you know? Like, I met my fella, right? And I was not healed from my past relationship. Like, I absolutely wasn't. I was still struggling. I was processing trauma. and everybody around us was going, just wait, just wait. You don't want to throw yourself into something new and blah, blah and all this. And I was letting this get into my head, right? And I was thinking, it is too soon, it is too soon. It was my makeup artist at the time.

24:05And she was like, what are you waiting for? She was like, what are you waiting for? She went, what are you going to do if you don't go out with him? Are you just going to sit in the house and cry again? And I was thinking, that was what I had planned, are you? And she was like, you need to start getting yourself out there. And I did. I put myself out there and I went on a date with him and I texted the group chat that night and said to me mates, I went, buy a fucking hat. Yes! Because he's the one. And if I had... There he is. Yeah, he's the one. All right, I can. And we all were getting married next year.

24:40Thank you. But if I'd have waited till I was... till I'd done processing that trauma or till I was over that man who wasn't right for us or till I was better, I might have missed me chance. Stop waiting to be this other person. You're brilliant as you are now. Take the chances, go on the date, have risks because that's when life gets exciting and good. Yes, Vicky.

25:11It's so true. And also there's never going to be a version of us that's like the perfect version. that's nailed it and healed from everything we've ever experienced and is feeling perfectly complete. And actually, I think what I've learned over the years is from many people I've interviewed or just seen moving through the same sort of industry that I'm in, the people that you assume, oh, my God, they've got it nailed. Look at them. They're totally coping and they look amazing, whatever. They've got all sorts of stuff going on that we don't know about. Everyone's dealing with stuff, and we've got to stop comparing ourselves.

25:43But like you say, act now. Do that thing now. You're brilliant. You're perfect as you are. It's a beautiful thing.

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26:52one thing I'm very grateful for personally following you on Instagram is how much you share and how generous you are in talking about things that actually are massively helpful and I think you've definitely worked out the difference between posting for the sake of it and posting because you know it's going to touch someone and it's going to help someone on any given day There's lots of different subjects that you cover. One that I think has been extremely helpful for women, but maybe some men too, is discussing body image. And again, finding this sense of peace and love where you're at at any given time.

27:24What has helped you get to a point of really feeling good in your own skin? So I've been like both extremes. when I was like drinking too much and partying too hard and then eating all the carbs in the world to recover from it. I got to a place where I was lethargic, probably unhealthy and very unhappy. And I'm not talking about my size. I'm talking about how I actually felt. Like so much of what I like about myself is not a physical attribute. I like that I want to get to know people, that I'm chatty and friendly. and when I'm not feeling confident, like I'm just not that person, you know? So I lost all this sense of self when I became unhealthier and bigger and all the rest of it.

28:12And I ended up, through desperation, losing too much weight and becoming very small for my frame. And I'm not talking about these people who are naturally gorgeous and slim and all the rest of it. Like, I am just not meant to be that small. My head was massive. Like I had, I look back at pictures where I thought I looked the duck's nuts and I've just got a fucking huge head. And it's insane. And it was the phase when we'd also did the quiffs as well. So the whole aesthetic is just mental. And I, that didn't bring us happiness either. I had this vision in my head. I was like, if you can just get to a size six, you're going to be so happy.

28:54You're going to stop getting your heart broke. you're going to stop making silly mistakes, you're going to succeed in work and all these things. And that was what I genuinely believed to be true, you know? And of course, when I got to the size six and I had the thigh gap and I did all the things that society told me would make me happy and I still wasn't happy, I didn't even know where to go from that. I had no clue. I was like, well, this is what you've told us like I needed to have to be successful and happy and loved and desired and all these things and I still feel like shit. So it was from that point where I thought, hang on a second, neither one of these extremes brought me happiness.

29:33It must lie somewhere in the middle for me. You know, balance. So going out and like doing a two hour walk with the lads. That's me dogs, by the way, Max and Myla. But then coming back and having a bacon sandwich, you know, like going out and smashing a Pilates session, but coming back and having a takeaway with me fella. Like I've accepted that my body has squishes and it wiggles and folds. And actually that's, that's my happy place. That like five to 10 pounds that for years I convinced myself I needed to lose to be happy, successful, desirable, whatever. That's me life. That's me glasses of wine with the girls.

30:17That's me takeaways with they can't, it's me, whatever, you know? And we need to stop punishing ourselves for living our lives and enjoying it, you know? And also thinking that if we get to some sort of certain size, everything's going to be great. Because life can be great at any size if you're just kind to yourself and you're healthy and happy, you know? So that was the journey that got us to where I am now. And I thought, I thought, oh God, I'm 35 and I've just got here. I really would like to get this message out there. So maybe I can tell somebody at 25 and they don't have to go through all the things I went through.

30:53So no, I always endeavor to use my platform to spread that message because it's a hard one to learn, isn't it? Like loving yourself is a difficult one. Yeah, especially on social media where we can easily fall down a rabbit hole of looking at people that seem to be living the dream and everything looks aesthetically perfect, whatever that means and we can start comparing ourselves and falling down just a pit of despair it's just pointless so I love that you're just rallying against that and putting out good positivity it's so important and another subject that you've more recently talked about in depth is your menstrual cycle and I really appreciated this post the other day where you were saying that for years you've struggled with your periods and pain and hormones and mood around it and for years you'd been fobbed off and thought that you had to just crack on and go, you know what?

31:44Yeah, this is just part of being a woman. I'm just going to get on with it. And actually, more recently this year, you decided enough's enough. I actually want to get to the bottom of this. So what was the catalyst? Had you just sort of got a bit bored of feeling rubbish? Shit. Yeah. Menstrual cycle was a very professional way of putting it. Yes, wasn't it just? I'm very professional with my little notebook here thank you very much um i call that the crimson devil yes she's a prick it is awful that we have to have them so rubbish i love being rubbish like i feel like we're not that bit that's only but i don't yeah um big bug um oh god dragonfly that's very beautiful it's floating through the tent good sign good sign it's an omen of sorts um so yeah so i've I always, up until I was sort of mid-20s, I would describe, I had like, I would say I had what most people describe as a very normal period.

32:42Like PMS is rubbish. Like, you know, you're sort of, you want all the sweets and all the cakes and you want to chin your fella and you want to cry one minute and then like conquer the world the next. Like, it's horrible, it's hard. But I always had what I'd describe as like quite a normal period and menstrual cycle. and then as I got older it started to get progressively worse and like I sort of thought to myself oh this is just it you know I've heard a lot of women lament that as you get older it gets a bit worse so I'll just take it on the chin but the last five years I've just been I've struggled so much and I was like surely every woman cannot be going through this to this extent because it's fucking torture.

33:30In what way? What was really troubling you? So obviously period cramps are crap, but it was more the emotional things that came alongside it that I had found debilitating. So it started off as like two weeks of the month, but it started to grow into like three weeks of the month. So some nights I can't sleep.

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35:19Tickets at arenastage.org.

35:25But then some nights, like some days I physically can't wake up. It's like next level fatigue. And then sometimes I'm, this was the scary one for me. The scary one I found was I lost the passion and love for things that normally brought us joy. And like anybody sitting in this room, you sort of know that that is a sign of depression. So I was thinking like, am I depressed? Like, I love me fella. I've got a wicked life. My job's mint. Why am I depressed? And then I was like, well, hang on, because I have these moments of clarity where I absolutely love my life and I'm dead grateful for everything.

36:03So maybe I'm not depressed. But when you're in this PMDD cloud, like you can't see the wood for the trees. I don't know if that's the saying. Is it forest for the trees? No, I think wood for the trees. It's something about wood. Another excellently executed quote. Yeah, smashed it. So you can't tell yourself this is just about your period, this is just about your hormones, it tells you, no, you're rubbish, you are crap, and everybody thinks you're crap, and the world would be a better place without you in it. So when you heard this particular doctor you'd seen this year, say PMDD, what was the feeling, did that connect with you instantly, like, this is what's going on for me?

36:45So social media gets such a bad rep, and I'll be the first to say, oh, people aren't being kind this month or whatever, but actually it was it was instrumental in me getting a diagnosis because I was talking about my periods on Instagram and I was saying like two weeks of the month like I got dark thoughts two weeks of the month like I can't motivate myself I hate my job I hate two weeks of the month I'm like this and women would reach out to me and say sounds like you've got PMD day Vicky this is not normal PMS and obviously you haven't been told off doctors loads of times over the years you just need to get on with it like loads of women are going through this come on like I was embarrassed to assume I had anything more than just PMS but I felt validated by their by their reassurance that there was something else more serious going on so that bolstered us to go and see a private doctor in the end um a professional in the space and when she said it sounds to me you've got PMDD, I just broke down.

37:46I was over the moon that actually I wasn't just fucking mental. Yeah. Because that's how I was being made to feel like I was, you know? If you go one day from like not being able to get out of bed and hating your fella and hating your life and everything, fine, the next day, like, what other explanation is there other than you're just not well? So to feel like there was an answer for why I was feeling this way, an answer that affects 10 % of women, I might add, and also probably more were just completely misdiagnosed loads or expected to get on with it. Yeah. It felt really, really validating.

38:19And what can you do to help lessen it, if anything? It's manageable. So you never cure it. It's manageable. Yeah, you're right. But there's loads of stuff, but it's kind of like it's not a one size fits all situation. Like loads of stuff isn't, like loads of medication isn't. So I've started on the combination pill, which hopefully should lessen me symptoms and make things slightly more palatable and less debilitating. But if that doesn't work, there are different avenues we can explore and loads of holistic things, you know. So I'm going to start, I'm going to get that hat on next and try and find out what works for me.

38:56So it's going to be a bit of a journey, but I feel liberated in a sense that I actually have that diagnosis and I can go forward rather than just suffering in silence. Not that I suffered in silence, I'm a right whinge. Rather than just suffer. But it's mad how little any of us know about our hormones and they control so much of our physical symptoms, our mood, how we're cognitively thinking and we just don't know anything about it. It's wild. I think we're so unprepared, like especially as women, like you just remember the sex education we got at school? Oh, my God. I put a condom on a cucumber and they just...

39:35Yeah, yeah. We had this, like, weird video that had, like... Oh, God, is he... The cucumber. Yeah.

39:46I think Steve's ad-libbing at this point. I think he's adding his own little moment there.

39:58I dread to think what's happening. Steve's luckily behind me. Or unluckily. Oh, yeah, our sex education video had, like, robots in it or aliens or something. Like, one of my schoolmates is here. I need to clarify that later. But there was definitely, like, robots in it. I'm like, what has that got to do with anything? I just don't know. Absurd. I don't know. But, like, we're just so unprepared, misinformed, and uneducated when it comes to our bodies. and like it leads to really problematic narratives and the majority of people have been so kind and so lovely and I've had so many messages from women being like Vicky I could have I could have wrote your post to myself and thank you I'm gonna go and I'm gonna I've been like popored by doctors for years I'm gonna go and be more persistent like if it felt like it it really helped women but for every 10 of them right there's one last who's like the rest of us just fucking get on with it you know brilliant that's helpful thank you so much I don't know if that's helpful I don't think it is I think you're perpetuating a really toxic narrative that women are just meant to get on with it I agree so I think we need more education like but even just for what one sanity god if I knew a bit more about hormones if I knew a bit more about what was meant to be going on in my body I wouldn't have had a horrible five years you know I would have push for a diagnosis sooner so I think we get let down in that space and the only way we're gonna it's going to improve is if we talk more yeah you know and if we support other women who you see is going through something you know let's let's just be kinder to each other and ourselves yes and actually this goes back to the sort of the start of our conversation this is all very helpful in terms of you being nice to yourself because if you're going through all of this every month feeling awful it's so easy when you're going through anything it doesn't have to be period related, but you're going through something so easy for us to turn on ourselves and go, what's wrong with me?

41:57Why am I not coping? I'm such an idiot. Like all this stuff that all of us think all the time, but don't necessarily articulate out loud. Knowing what's going on gives you a chance to go, I'm actually going to be nice to myself today. And if I can't handle seeing other people, or actually I really need to lean on other people, whatever way you're going, that you allow yourself to do that rather than thinking you've got to crack on, you've got to cope you've got to keep your mouth shut and just get on with it I think it helps us internally find that sort of self-compassion as well absolutely like I was I got myself to the point where I just felt embarrassed and I felt weak and because so many doctors and so many people had told me like everyone else is just getting on with this Vicky like grow up I was like I can't deal with this thing that every other woman can deal with you are weak you are embarrassing and you should be ashamed and like that that thought process is so dangerous especially when you're feeling all the things you're already feeling you know it just exacerbates it so I think I think being kind to yourself is like it's dead easy to say isn't it yeah but it's imperative if you're going to be happy and healthy and well and like there's little things I always do you know like if I know I'm getting myself into that mind like that mindset where the pmd thing is taking a control and my hormones are raging through my body and telling us I'm crap and all that like I think retreat do what your body needs do what your mind is telling you you want if that is like watching friends over and over again and eating a giant cookie on the sofa do that you know that sounds well good so so good like I wish I was doing that yeah you're so right because I mean, I spoke to this amazing therapist who's now a friend of mine called Owen O 'Kane.

43:49He's been on the podcast. He's written some incredible books. And one of his main tips is always to remember how important self-kindness is, which again, sounds really like throwaway and flippant. But we could be doing all the stuff, right? We could be doing yoga every day. We could be drinking gallons of green juice, doing everything that everyone tells us to do to make ourselves feel all right but if we're not kind to ourselves none of that will work and that is quite a terrifying thought because it's not easy just to all of a sudden like yourself but I think it gives us permission to really focus on trying and to even just land on acceptance rather than self-compassion because otherwise the rest of it's all pointless yeah it's so so important and also I think there is like you said great power in saying this stuff out loud not only are you you know you're in a position where you can help other people by saying do you know what I've really struggled with my periods and hopefully this is helpful but I think even in our own little circles if we say to a mate do you know what I'm finding this really hard it just somehow extinguishes part of it so I even remember when when I first started having panic attacks I thought I was the only person on the planet that was having panic attacks which is highly narcissistic but I was like no one else has ever been through this and I can't talk about it because it's too weird and no one's gonna admit That it's going to, you know, that that's rumbling around in my brain.

45:12And as soon as I said it out loud, how many people in my friendship circle, in the outskirts of my friendship circle went, oh, my God, me too. All the time in this situation. This is the trigger, whatever. So now, if I say it out loud, I don't have them. Yeah. Because I'm going, oh, God, I might, just to let you know, in this situation, I might go into panic. And then I don't because there's no threat then. I've said it. I think it just helps take the edge off. You take away the fear of it, don't you? And like we do, we always think we're the only person who's going through anything. But the fact of the matter is everybody's fighting a battle that nobody knows anything about.

45:49And if you talk about it, if you verbalize it, if you put it out there, not only do you take away a lot of its power, but you also invite other people to talk about it too. The thing we all want most in the world is to not feel like we're on our own. That's why we look for romantic partners. That's why we seek out friendships. That's why we're friends with Barry from Accounts From Work, who's a total knobhead. Oh, bless Barry. Sorry, Barry. Sorry, Baz. You just don't want to be on your own. No. And I think we're really scared of being rejected, and that's why we don't say anything out loud, because we think, if I admit this thing, people in my life are going to just walk, or they're going to think I'm strange, or they're going to judge me.

46:25And it's so often... Well, I'd say 99 % of the time, not the case. And if someone does judge you for the wrong reasons, get rid of the toxic people in your life. you've got to look after yourself yeah and like going back to what you were saying there like as women sorry fellas this is my only experience I've never been a boy so as women I think we try so hard to be absolutely everything that everybody in my life needs the best mother the best like employee the best boss like you try to be everything and you just end up you end up stretching yourself too thin. You know when you get on a plane and the air hostess tells you, you must put on, in case of emergency, you must put on your mask first.

47:11Like that feels mental to me as a woman. I think, oh no, like I'll make sure Erkan's got his on first, or if I was sitting with me niece or my sister, I'd make sure all of them have got theirs on first. But if I was to do that, I might be able to help get somebody's on right first, but I wouldn't be able to help anybody else. However, if I look after myself first and put mine on, I can help half the plane. If you are not making sure your cup is full, if you are not taking care of yourself, if you're not meditating, drinking green juice, eating cookies on the sofa, watching the shows that you like, whatever self-care looks like for you, you are going to get run down poorly and stretched or whatever it is very fast and then you're no good to anybody.

47:54So as much as we want to be superwoman and help everybody and all these things, that starts with putting yourself first which feels really selfish and hard to do and I can see some people like nodding along like yeah fuck I don't do enough of that no like please try and do a bit more of that because I don't think any of us do I think it's a really British thing as well I think it's sort of like oh god I'm so sorry what you first what you know what do you want what do you need like we're all so apologetic and you go first yeah and inside actually this is the interesting bit, and I was talking to Owen O 'Kane about this again the other day, we so often do that and go, oh no, no, no, you have the last biscuit, or something bigger than that, like, no, no, it's fine, you do that thing, but inside we're going, I hate you, I resent you so much for taking that last biscuit, I resent you, and you go, oh no, no, it's fine, we don't need to do that thing that I was really looking forward to, and inside you're going, I hate you for that, I resent you so much.

48:52So actually, we're not doing anyone any good. And it's all about boundaries, which I say again really flippantly, but I'm awful at them. And I have been for years. Hence why I'm obsessed with Melissa Urban. If any of you are interested in boundaries, she came on the podcast. She's the queen of boundaries. She's so hardcore with boundaries. It's like terrifying. But it's what we should be doing. She will tell someone, no, I'm so sorry. I can't help you do that. Whereas I'm going again, doing the thing. I'd love to help. What do you need? I'll be there a day early. and inside I'm going, I don't want to do this and I don't like this person and I resent the whole thing.

49:23It's not good. It's not good. Like none of us are nailing the boundary thing and we need to have boundaries to enable ourselves to put ourselves first and to look after ourselves. None of this stuff's easy. I don't think me or you, Vicky, are sat here going, be nice to yourself, love yourself, put yourself first. It's well easy. We wouldn't be talking about it if it was easy. It's really hard and that's why we need to keep talking about it. Helping each other out with that message. encouraging each other and also like saying it out loud to remind ourselves it's so so important yeah well said bit of a rant there sorry about that just had to get that out of my system um do you know what i literally can't believe i'm looking at this clock in front of me and we're on the 45 second countdown that 45 minute chat went insanely quickly mainly because you're so easy to chat to and I love listening to you talk about your life and what you've been sharing with everyone it's so beautiful and once again thank you so much for being at the Happy Place Festival everybody please give it up for Vicky Patterson

50:33Vicky I cannot tell you how much I enjoyed that chat and the energy in that talk tent was absolutely electric. So if you were there, thank you so much for bringing so much love and positivity with you. Oh, and also to the lovely woman whose phone rang. I hope that your dad got his newspapers. All right, back next week with a brand new series and we'll be kicking it off with an absolute legend and music icon. Until then, a huge thank you again to Vicky, to the producer Anushka Tate at Rethink Audio and to you both for being at the festival and for being here now. You are the best.

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