Zara Larsson: Ambition, extroverts, and Pinterest interiors

0:00Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that helps you reach your full potential. Today, I'm meeting Zara Larson. And I do think once I would reach that goal, I would myself probably have another one. I hope I won't feel like I'm not satisfied because that's also what I feel like inside of me. But I will always want to go further because that's just who I am as a person. I would like to evolve because let's say I play the Wembley Stadium. I don't think I would feel like, boom, I've done it. Like, have your personal goals always changing or, like, just to get you places, like, evolve as a person and as an artist.

0:38I think that's, like, really what I want to do. Zara won Sweden's Got Talent when she was 10. 16 years later, she's very much still growing as an artist and a businesswoman. She made headlines last year in a truly trailblazing deal that saw her take control of her entire recording catalogue. and now her new album Venus is the first release in a new partnership between Sony Music and her own Summer House label. We hung out in her hotel room literally just before she was going on stage at the Roundhouse in Camden which if I was a pop star that is my worst nightmare having to do an interview before I go and then get on stage in front of thousands of people but she was more than happy to chat.

1:24She's just a great person. She was in such a good mood, full of energy, seemed to have sort of zero nerves, gets energised by talking to people. That for me is an absolute miracle. What a novelty. I am drained by human interaction. So I was fascinated by that. Zara also has so much drive and it was really cool to hear her talk so openly about how ambitious she is for herself. I think women especially can often be scared to admit they have ambition. We don't want to seem too bossy or bolshy. But what's also brilliant about her is the amount of fun she has with all of it. I think Zara's a really good example of working incredibly hard, but ultimately not taking life too seriously.

2:11Otherwise, we miss out on all the euphoric joy. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Post a job for free and get started today. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors.

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4:25Right, let's do it. Here's the show.

4:50Hello, Zahra Larson. Hello. Zahra, we're in a hotel right now, but later on, you are playing The Roundhouse as part of your UK tour. That is a great venue. It is. I played there last night for my first show, and we had the second one tonight. and it was so nice because I feel like it's quite an intimate venue and I got to see everyone's face in the crowd, which was nice and still, you know, enough space on stage and it was just like a really, really good venue. Everybody that I've talked to say, oh, it's one of my favorite venues to go see. Yeah, and I've never been there. I've never seen a show.

5:25You can see wherever you're stood, you can see. And like you said, as a performer, you can see everyone. And also the people that have played there, Jimi Hendrix has played there. Blondie have played there Led Zeppelin's played there how does that fit yeah it's like a very historic venue so when you're on that stage do you get a sense of that I just get a sense of like taking my own show wherever I'm at and just having the best time with the people I'm on stage with and I truly feel like I achieve that like I do that and I feel like the crowd the audience is obviously such a big part of the show but we would have the best time like just us on stage no matter like on what stage we will be.

6:05So it's definitely amazing that so many iconic people have been there before me. But I also think like, okay, boom, Roundhouse this time, where we're going next time, maybe Alley Pally. Love it. And then after that, O2. Love. After that, Wembley Stadium. Yes! Yes! I love this about you because of the interviews that I listened to ahead of us chatting today, you've got drive and ambition in droves. I have too. I am deeply ambitious. And I think sometimes women are very scared to admit that, that they have huge goals and that the sky is the limit and that they will do anything to reach the goal.

6:48Not necessarily in a way going, oh, and then I'll be happy, but just in a way like this is what I want to do. And I feel the same. I'm urgently hungry for that next step. What is it? Where are we taking this? There's a line between feeling dissatisfied or unsatisfied. Because I'm not. I'm really, really happy. I mean, we had a great show last night. I did truly enjoy to being there. I'm very present. Like, I'm right here right now. I really enjoy myself. But then also to find that balance of like, okay, I'm very happy with where my life's at now. But I also want to find that purpose. I think what I actually want is just to evolve.

7:28to experience that and then it doesn't necessarily even have to be about a bigger venue it could also be just a purpose of like okay how do i want my show to be different and i think when you do like showbiz usually you can you can put on like a more specific performance or how i would like my show when you have a bigger budget and when you get a bigger budget is when you get to put like bigger venues you know just that constant like involvement yeah and evolution yeah also yeah fuck it i do want a bigger i do want a bigger venue and like i want a bigger venue because i want a bigger venue exactly i think we should be able to say this stuff out loud because i often think if i'm doing something i love and i'm naturally i think some you know i feel very lucky that i am it's in me i was born driven like i've got that drive in me correct and and i think it's you can't but against that, like it's there.

8:22And I think we're scared to say that. But I think if I'm doing something I love and I've got this drive, why can't I say out loud, I want to do this to the best of my capabilities. What is wrong with that? I think it's really frantic on. And you're right about the fact that I feel like a lot of women when they say that or younger girls, you know, it's just maybe not so much right now where I hope less than it was, you know, a couple of decades ago. but it's still people raise their eyebrows a little bit like oh girl like really oh well you know you know you should really like yeah or be a bit more sensible about things or realistic or like I've got kids so it's like even more frowned upon but I want to be a great mum and do what I'm doing and I think oh you feel like people like well you're a mum now yeah right yeah I think there's I think there's judgment on all of it but I think there should be more space for us to go I want to be the best I can possibly be at this and I've got big goals and I won't necessarily be satisfied unless I tick some of them off the list I think it's fine more than fine and I do think once I would reach that goal I would myself probably have another one correct and then another one you just keep moving and that's why I'm saying like even though I won't maybe feel I hope I won't feel like I'm not satisfied because that's also what I feel like inside of me but I will always want to go further because that's just who I am as a person.

9:50I would like to evolve because let's say I play the Wembley Stadium. I don't think I would feel like, boom, I've done it. Like in my head, I would, where am I going after that? You know, am I moving into this type of business or am I doing something else? Like have your personal goals always changing or like just to get you places like evolve as a person and as an artist. I think that's like really what I want to do because I feel like I am a competitive person. You probably are too. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So why would I want to do something that's not like the best? Correct. And also it's not just about I want more.

10:25I want the venue to be bigger. I mean, that can be the benchmark. That can be the goal. But I think it's about trying to realize your true potential and being curious about this. Like, well, what is it? And this is for all of us. What am I capable of in any capacity? We don't actually know. so I actually get a real thrill out of pushing those boundaries and testing it going well I could set myself that goal and see if I could do it that could be fun or an interesting experience and like you say evolve and learn something about myself I think that's the feeling isn't it that you want to push your own boundaries a bit absolutely yeah that's what I'm saying like obviously a show at the Wembley Stadium would look different to the show at Roundhouse even though I'm still you know singing my songs it's like the full production around it the whole experience it would just it would obviously be different and yeah I would very much like to see where yeah manifesting it making it happen and it's also interesting because the older you get the harder it is to experience newness yeah and newness is obviously one of the greatest feelings when it's a positive new sometimes well I was looking in the paper the other day and there was that gorgeous picture you'd recreated the moment that you had won the Sweden's Got Talent competition and you were 10 years old and it's a beautiful picture where at 10 you're just full of glee and your arms in the air and it's just all new and exciting and you've recreated it down the line the exact picture it was so clever yeah and you describe that moment as wee that like lovely and we've all had one of those moments pure happiness pure happiness and euphoria yeah and I'm wondering I had a similar start to a career to you when I was 15.

12:12I was on a presenter TV show over here, Disney Club, and I won a competition to become a presenter. 80 ,000 years later, I'm somehow still doing it. But I don't think I've ever felt that euphoria in my career. I have in my real life. But in my career since, then the day that I found out I'd won the competition to get the gig. And you think that everything's going to get better from there, but it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying. Like there's a big difference between your your personal like evolution or where you what you feel like inside of you and how present you are at this very moment and your milestones in your career.

12:50Because even though you might move on to like bigger and better things, it's not giving you that sense of of newness. Like you said, that excitement. I feel like once you're in it and it's around you, it's just kind of there. everything is um it's relative isn't it yeah so something that like I always think about that one time I posted the cover for my first ever single and I remember which is so easy now to compare it to real numbers and statistics with likes on Instagram and like streams on on Spotify and that but I remember my picture got like 4 ,000 likes and I was just like I would not shut up about it my whole family the whole night we were just like i can't believe it like imagine how many people this is who like my picture for my song that's coming out you know it was just like now if my picture would have gotten 4 000 likes i would have been like crying in the toilet delete like well that was a flop you know what i mean you just constantly like move the goalpost exactly but um yeah i do miss that feeling of coming in and just because you also realize growing up first of all everyone's just people even the people you look up to that myth goes quite quickly doesn't it you meet a few famous people and go oh god they're just like normal people you know and they doesn't even have to be that they're rude or that they're not they're just normal they're just normal aren't we all and then you have that that image or that that yeah like an idol you you godify someone or really put them on a pedestal and then you realize oh yeah they're just they're just like me yeah oh that's so boring in a way you know but also kind of nice but it really demystifies everything that you do and yeah growing up and realizing that we are all of us are quite similar and that's us everyone you meet no matter what you do uh we're quite similar or from different backgrounds it's just like i believe that you can meet i can meet anyone and we can have a connection, which is a really beautiful thing.

14:56But talking about that, like the superstardom, that excitement in the industry, in your career, it does fade away a little bit. And then you got to find like, okay, why am I doing this? Yeah. Because I want to see like a progression and I just want to be the best version that I could be of myself, I think in a way. Yeah, and I think you then learn to get the enjoyment from different areas because I think what we're dealing with in showbiz land is that all the emphasis is on the feedback and how much someone likes something or streams something or is engaging with whatever that thing is but actually I think what we all have to do is learn that the enjoyment has to come from the doing bit totally so for me you know it might be prepping one of these episodes or writing like the enjoyment has to come from that rather than this many people like this or and you see oh how are people reacting to it.

15:49So what is that for you? Like where's the bit where you can really harness that joy and go no one can take that from me. You are so right about that actually and I think as I grow older why I'm now, like when I started out I was not writing my songs. I was not really involved creatively. I also got signed very young. So besides like the Swedish Got Talent part which I won when I was 10, I didn't get signed until I was 14 which is still very young. but at that point I was just like put me on a stage give me a few songs let me perform, let me sing I'm an entertainer at heart I want people to have a good time the rooms that I'm in I am going to make sure that everyone's like I'm such a jester, you know what I mean so at that point just put me on a stage and as I grew older I was like maybe I want to write my songs I want to be a part of that creating it and then it became well I want to direct my videos I want to be part of that and now it's like I own my songs and have my own record label and I have like I do take a lot more uh it's a lot more fun to be creatively involved and actually make what I do rather than just walk up on stage which is still my favorite thing to do like performing live having a show is number one but it's everything around it that makes it like feel like I'm doing it like it's me you know it's not someone telling me what to do or or I have great people around me but it's just that the making of it I feel like is way more important to me now than just performing it and receiving the love from the people who are appreciating it and that requires um trust in yourself because when you're the boss and you're making decisions for you you've got to trust that you know what's best for you because you know and that was hard in the beginning yeah of course because before you know you can go oh well they got it wrong so that's why this didn't work whatever but now it's you it's me and it's kind of always been me I mean I've always been the face of my songs and my performances and my videos but I think I didn't really understand that or even if I did it would just be something that I would think oh well you know like I obviously you know there's like a professional choreographer to this so they must know they must know like the good steps i wouldn't even question it like do i like this choreo i would just walk into a room and it would be like this is your choreo and i'd be like okay i don't really like it but i can't say it and i was like of course i can't or even the simplest things like a makeup like sit in a makeup chair for a morning sofa program and they do my makeup in a way that i'm like i didn't like that then i will go in and changing myself in the bathroom rather than like i've done that so many times rather than like say excuse me could you just go i love it thank you so much it's beautiful how i like it and then you go to the toilet and go shit wiping off with a tissue i've been there yeah and now i'm like i i actually it's fine just telling people oh i think i want a bit more like this so cringe though isn't it it's so hard i know but you know what but we've got to do it I've never met anyone who is not happy to change it of course they're professionals you know what I mean we'll do it we'll do it I want you to be happy I want you to be cool with it and I think it was just something in me mentally the thought that people would get really upset at me saying how I wanted things when in reality people don't and even if they do fuck them you know like it's your face or like it's your songs or like you are gonna be the one who have to And you've got to say the kindness.

19:35Of course. Of course. So you can't take events. No. Like you would just say, oh, actually, this is probably how I would like my eyeliner to be. Yeah, no biggie. As an example. The world's still turning. You know. But we get so nervous. You know, I talk for a living and I still, you know, be like I could be in a taxi and they're playing a radio station that's just making me feel agitated before I go to work. and I'll persevere and just sit there gripping the arm of the chair rather than going, excuse me, do you mind turning it down? I'm too scared to. Really? Silly grown woman. What's wrong with me?

20:07I can't see that. I know, it's pathetic. What? It's so sad. Are you really like that? Yeah, I'm really like that. It's really ridiculous because I don't want to upset anyone. That's not the energy you're giving me. No, my energy is like, I know what I'm doing and I'm saying what I want to say but I don't want to upset. I've got much better because I've had to over the years, especially at work. I'm much better at this stuff in my career than I am in my real life. Real life is where it gets complicated. In work, there's sort of structure and rules. And this is how we're doing it. And everyone's, you know, doing their thing.

20:39So this is how it's going to work. But in real life, it's messy. I think the rules are very clear in your career, your work, than in real life. You know, you don't have these, like, titles or, you know. And they might go away and go, oh, gosh, she's a right bitch. I always thought she was. And then I'm dealing with that. can't sleep it spirals on it's not that bad but i know what you mean it's but it's so good and also the fact that you now own the rights to your songs i mean we have to sort of clarify that that is exceptionally rare in this industry no it really is and it's sad that it's so rare yeah because it should be something that more artists should have control and power over their songs and what they put out and even the songs like i said when i started out like i didn't write my my own songs um I've always been very involved in what I want to release what I don't want to release I've been super vocal about that and I've been very much like A &Ring myself in a way but even so like I didn't write Lush Life and that song to me is such a strong it's such a big identity of me as an artist so to just know that it's safe with me and I can kind of do whatever I want with it and um it's not going to go on and live its own life because some investment capital or company took hold of it and now oh they're going to sell it to this person or this commercial or whatever you know and also in the in the future the fact that i am now also like i've said i've always been in the face of like what I do, but now I really am responsible for what I do, um, just economically and in a different position where I can, um, maybe talk a little different when it comes to like negotiating with labels or, you know, I'm still in a partnership with Sony Music.

22:36They're licensing my songs and uh I'm an epic but for the future it's just very much down to to me I can't really even mentally blame somebody else oh well well they wanted to do that or they want like it's really up to me now you know I mean it's a it's a really smart move and it's really brilliant that that's the direction that you're taking yourself and it's fantastic look at I'm sure you'll there's a you feel proud about that you know you're still at a very young age to have made these decisions But if you were to rewind and go back to 14, is there anything you would warn yourself of walking into that industry, knowing a bit from winning the competition at 10, but really diving into the industry for the first time?

23:16Yeah. Very excited. You know, we're all at 14, impressionable, naive. Yeah. Would you go back and say, just watch out for this? Honestly, I have been so taken care of. And I think it's because my mom was always with me up until like 20. So if I was 14 now, like she would sit right there. Yeah, that's so good. Like she would be with me everywhere. And not only her, but like my manager or the people I got. When I got signed at 14, I got signed to an indie label in Stockholm. And it wasn't that big, big machine of people just throwing me in and like making me do these songs that I had no control over or whatever.

23:58Like it was a small company. And the people there really also listened to me. My first song that I ever released was a song that nobody really thought was the good choice. It was a ballad, which I'm not really known for these days. But it was a ballad, no drums. It was super calm. No one was kind of doing that back in the days. And especially not in Sweden. I just thought, I really, really, really want to release this song. I love this song. And they just said, okay, we don't. But we're going to support you with that. And they did. And it went really well in Sweden. and they've just always backed me up.

24:33So coming from that and then into, you know, the big labels in America, like here in the UK or in the rest of the world, it gave me such a feeling of secureness and that I could fall back on something because I knew I wasn't completely alone. I think being signed really early on and being signed maybe directly to these big labels because not only are you very young, but you're also one of so many artists on a label. If they want to spend a lot of money and efforts and time into you, then you might feel like maybe I have to do this even though I don't want to do this specific song or I don't. But I always felt like, fuck you guys.

25:15I have my guys back in Sweden. And we released songs that you didn't like at first. And it went really well in Europe. And now you like it. We did that on many songs. And then when they were like, oh, no, this is actually a really cool song because it was a hit back here in Europe. Like, we've always loved this. Yeah. You bullshitters. That's all good. You cheeky bullshitters. Yeah. And I wonder what my life would have looked like if I didn't have that. But I've always said I'm actually so thankful for just the people around me, for the people that I am still working with and have worked with.

25:53I've definitely had some weirdos in there. there are always in every industry some very weird strange people especially in showbiz though I would say or they just get away with a lot of stuff but I feel like times are changing you know things that were acceptable back in the days are not acceptable today yeah and you know it you know but if I could change anything honestly it would just it would honestly just be don't take it so seriously like I have felt so much pressure on doing well, living up to people's expectations of me or things that I thought people had expectations of me for or of. And just like, it's not that deep.

26:36Just release more music. Create more. What a great attitude to have. Because I think having skirted around the music industry for many, many years, it's taken very seriously. Yes, it's just music. Is it that serious? aren't you just putting a song out? And everyone's sort of a bit worried and a bit anxious and they're putting you around and you're going, I think it's just a song. And I think, yeah, I think this is like brilliant and you're really talented and skilled for whoever you are. But I think this is not that serious. And even for people who do, you know, take it very, very seriously and I respect that.

27:09And, you know, they really, they have a concept and they have something they want to say and music could definitely be like life changing for people. It could be like so many things. It is, music, you know, at the end of the day. And it could bring people together or it could start debates or it could start like all these different things. But how, for me, like how are you even going to do anything if you are not even releasing music because you're so scared of the fact that it feels this big and serious? That's the thing. I think you're absolutely right. Music can be a very serious thing in terms of what it can do and the momentum it can create and the beautiful collectives that it can create.

27:54But the ecosystem it lives in and how it's released doesn't need to be that serious. It's like any job in showbiz, it's entertainment. It is. I have to remind myself of that because I get so stressed about things. Oh my God, I've got to interview this scary person and oh shit, I've got to... It doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. I think we do... And I think what doesn't help is the fact that there's this new idea of perfection. And, you know, it's probably driven from social media, which has good and bad sides like everything. But there is this concept that everything's got to turn up perfect because otherwise someone's going to pull it apart or find the flaws or go, well, that's wrong.

28:35I mean, I think that is a genuine pressure. It is. It's definitely, it exists. Like, I felt it. But then also I think, I wonder sometimes, like, why do I even need to entertain that side of let's say the internet or TikTok or Twitter whatever it is because I feel like a lot of people who are the ones who are judging others releasing music or doing following their dreams releasing programs and show whatever they're not even in the arena I think they judge people because they're so scared of if I would do this other people would judge me So it's like that downward spiral of like, you know, I'm not, because anyone who's actually in the arena, I feel like, are not the judgy people.

29:22No, you understand. Yes. You understand that it could be scary. Yeah. And that it's also not that deep sometimes. Yeah. But the people who are watching it, who point fingers or say whatever, really, in reality, why would you actually listen to those people? Yeah. You know? Do you know what? I read something, I don't know where it was the other day, that you said about this new album in particular, that you were thinking, God, should I do a concept album that's talking about heartbreak? But you were like, actually, I'm in a really good place. Let's just have a fucking great time. And pop is great for that.

29:55Of course it is. I feel like you need music for that. I need that. I want to hear good stuff. Makes me just feel happy. I want to dance about too. It's really important. It is. I mean, that's a great level of confidence that you've clearly naturally got, and maybe your mum's helped you to cultivate that. where you've gone, no, I'm still going to do what feels right to me. I'm just glad that your mum was around so much in the early days. I think that's really important. Me too. Did she worry about what you were getting yourself into? Well, I think because she was always around, she kind of knew what was up.

30:24But she was definitely scared of me being in a situation that didn't feel good. Or even being young. like I've been in so many rooms as like a teenager 16 17 18 year old and it's like me and 10 other guys and they're like like my dick is so big like literally and figuratively like it's it's just been it's just been like situations where I'm like I don't feel comfortable in this room like why am I here and in no other situation outside of like music industry or the showbiz would a teenage girl sit in a room with 10 other grown men like there's no scenario where that's not like inappropriate in a way and they would like you know there's a lot of alcohol there's a lot of drugs around there's just like they would bring in girls from like dancers and it was just like wow and there's your mom like hi it was just like you know your mom was there honestly i've definitely like left spaces where i'm like i don't see why i should be here right now and even if she's not there someone is there from my team but I can only imagine like what would and I'm not uh I'm not a person who says no to a lot of things either and especially not teenage me like I will be down for anything because I want to be like a fun cool girl too so I could only imagine like if she weren't there or if the people that I trust were not there like what would I have done you know wow do you know what I think that's incredible for you to have that hindsight as well it's definitely a hindsight thing yeah even if unless it's just like oh this is weird but i think it's actually stood you in such good stead because now at what you're now 26 yeah you're still young and yeah and you are going down an incredibly sensible route in terms of your choices and how you want to do business and i was an absolute knob at 26 like absolutely i was working i was just yeah when i'm not sitting in a nice dress with a mic no but i think i you know i i think your mom being there has had a hugely brilliant impact and even like i remember her i was like mom like you don't even have to be here anymore like get away from me but now i'm like thank god you know thank god oh my god your mom is brilliant she's so brilliant yeah

32:52hi this is nox from the podcast with nox and jamie and maybe like us at the podcast you also know people who have been smokers or vapors and zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either three or six milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine.

33:24Nicotine is an addictive chemical. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. You're invited to spend an evening on Fremont Avenue. For generations, this house has been home to soulful music, good food, and cutthroat card games.

34:07Saints and sinners. Unexpected laughs and unspoken truths. Good times, hard times, and of course, family. Always family. So pull up a chair and join us at Fremont Avenue. A world premiere play only at Arena Stage.

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35:00How have you found it moving into this global fame and global success? Because I know in Sweden things work slightly differently. There isn't that kind of celebrity culture. The philosophy is sort of based more on equality and that everyone's the same. I've got friends that live in Sweden. and I've never been, actually I'm going this year. Oh nice. I'm going in November for the first time and I can't wait. Yeah, it's ages away. It's also the worst time to go. I'm going to like a very snowy northern bit to go hiking. Okay, love that. That's the kind of thing I like to do is hike. So that's going to be gorgeous but I know that it's a different flavour of how you view celebrity and it's not like, especially in the States, that sort of worship of celebrities and there being such furore around it and even in the UK celebrity sort of culture is there perhaps yeah so how have you how have you dealt with that we don't have that at all actually and it's something that I'm very um thankful for I would say even like going out it's weird because it depends on where I am in the world but I could see quite instantly like you know who I am and it doesn't even have to be like a super fan it's just you see someone you can see like you have met me on tv or in your feed or wherever but I haven't met you so that meeting sometimes could be a little strange because it's just like am I getting am I getting you as a person or am I getting like a performance of you who you think that I want you to be you know so is that hard you think to find people that are relaxed around you I don't know because I think that everyone's so nice.

36:42I think everyone's great. And then my friends would be like, well, they weren't nice to me. You know what I'm like? But they were so nice. Yeah, yeah. People are pretty fickle about these things. And I mean, I remember actually when I first got signed and I said, but what if, you know, it was a concern of mine that I had. Like, what if I have a really hard time, like, meeting friends or just, you know, like when I, if I'm in LA a lot, how will I meet people? Because you won't be going to school. You won't do any, like, activities where you meet people. How will I meet these people? And the guy at the label, he was like, no, no, no, don't worry.

37:25Don't worry about it. Because when you're famous, everybody want to be your friend. Great. And he was super serious about it. He was like, no, no, no, no, no. there's no worries in that when you're famous everybody want to be your friend it's just like well they might be but are they actually my friend yeah i want to kind of mix on with some connection like a genuine friendship yeah but i think i think i do like people and i think um you do realize in time like who are your real friends or not but in the sense of going outside like living my life it's been super normal and maybe that is a swedish thing because sometimes I've definitely been in situations in America where someone is like oh my gosh can I please take a picture with you and I said yeah of course and then someone else wants to take a picture and then someone else also wants to take a picture because once they see one person walking up it's like oh and then all of a sudden this little line has been created and I'm like do you know who I am and they're like no but we saw people like take pictures with you it's mental yeah it's definitely special but yeah it's the law again in sweden which is that like the law of no one is better than you but also no one's worse than you so it's just very socialistic like everyone's the same on good and bad terms i think it's kind of nice actually i think sweden gets so many things right yeah i look to sweden and go they're nailing it in all Like how you do schooling and how you deal with even when kids are growing up and there's no like blue for boys, pink for girls.

39:06Like all my Swedish friends are like, that is not a thing. And it just feels like Sweden get a lot right. Yeah, I had a really good time growing up there, I would say. I'm very lucky to have my childhood and still my base. Even though, you know, I travel the world. I live out of my suitcase. A lot here in London, a lot in LA. But like Sweden's like, that's home, you know. And I feel very lucky to have grown up there and have a strong like, yeah, just friends and family. But I think I've also realized that I've not been in that position or at that level where it's like I can't go anywhere. There's paparazzis.

39:48There's people following me. So I can't speak for that life. but as I've pictured like being an artist even from when I was like for as far as I can remember having that I've always seen it as a part of it it's like you're playing a role a little bit so it's like a performance you go on stage and you perform and you go out and you have someone like following your fans or whatever it is and that is also a performance and you just have to be down to play that part for a big chunk of your life and then when you're not that and you are with your real friends or you're at dinner or you're hanging whatever that could be like the real the real you but everything else it's a performance and i've always felt like i i'm fine with that as long you know like i said i haven't really it's not been that extreme and i do feel like with the rise of like social media and everybody have their own phones that like mob like following might not be the same right now yeah but people might you know take their little sneaky pics and that but you you're you're on a stage that's flat basically that's the ground so when you're not on stage because you know from reading the interviews that you've done it's like you're born to be on stage, right?

41:05You are a performer. You came out as a performer and you absolutely love it. That is your safe space. That is where you can just be free and be you. What do you do to counterbalance that? Do you need time where you are in solitude or you do quiet activities? Do you need to counterbalance it? The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork.

41:47Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams.

42:20Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. At Capella University, we believe accessible education can make a difference in people's lives. That's why we offer scholarship opportunities to all eligible students. Whether you're considering a bachelor's, master's, or doctoral degree, our teams will walk you through the process and help you get the savings you are eligible for. Furthering your education is an investment in yourself. Entonces, ¿qué estás esperando? Un futuro diferente está más cerca de lo que crees con Capella University.

42:56Learn more at capella.edu.

43:04I don't know, actually. The thing is, I do. I do do those things. So when I'm not on stage, let's say I just had two days off. I didn't move. Like, I didn't, I barely went up to, like, open the door for room service. I did not, I didn't move. Like I'm serious when I say like I did a step of foot outside of my hotel room. Step count, zero. Zero. Like barely like, oh, I have to go to the bathroom. So I think I do that just naturally. But I don't feel like if I had people around me, if I had, you know, my boyfriend's here right now. I have another friend who's here. I would go out and do things. But naturally, I am actually quite lazy, which is weird.

43:51But do you think you must be an extrovert? No, because I am drained by human interaction. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That gives you so much energy. Really? Like I would actually prefer to do a lot of like interviews or press or whatever after my show, because then I feel like super recharged. Wow. And I'm just like high energy. I had a good time on stage. I've seen a lot of people in the crowd. Let's go. Like I'm the more people I'm with, the more energized I feel. I'm so fascinated by it because I've done two of these today. Yeah. And I will need to go and sit in a dark room on my own for like an hour.

44:28I can't because I've got kids. But I get out-peopled. I'm like, I've seen too many people. And it's too many words and information. And I'm trying to process the whole thing. Right. And that takes me ages. So I think it's so fascinating. I'm envious. I could go for 24 hours straight. Wow. And just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I love it. But I think you'd have to, to do the schedule that you guys do as pop stars and the touring and the interviews. But then when it turns off, it's off. Yeah, so what happens then? Do you miss it? Do you crave it? Do you feel down? I do think laying in a bed for two days, two days is fine.

45:08But when it gets to three, four, that's why I was really struggling in the pandemic. Because I feel like I didn't have anything planned and scheduled. I mean, everything was so up in the air. Maybe it will get back to normal next month or maybe next month or maybe next month. If they just would have told us, like, it's going to be like this for two years, it would have been easier to manage. But I feel like I don't feel good and I don't think anyone feels good being isolated in a small space for more than 48 hours. You need to just, like, take a walk at least. Like, see the sky. Get a little wind in your face.

45:43but I find it really really hard to find the motivation to do that myself that's why I think I need to just surround myself with people who are like okay we're gonna go and do this then I have something to do but if I have a day with nothing scheduled I find it almost physically impossible to go and do something like I need I need something to be in my schedule because I can't plan it like I can't do it I am such a baby when it comes to that and then I feel really bad after 48 hours I feel like oh actually I'm a little anxious yeah I should have gone down to the gym but it's not in my schedule so wow we are the opposite in every way like if I've got a free day oh I'm working out a little schedule for myself I'm doing some writing I might want to go for a walk go for a run like i but would you feel would you feel like if you're not productive would you feel like terrible if i'm not productive terrible my sister but like even if it was two hours i'd feel awful for not having used it to create something or do something which is to my detriment yeah because i do need time to be idle and i'm right terrible at it terrible at it but i did see a video of you um getting in very cold water back at home yeah is that a regular thing or something you'll try and do it yeah i love doing that we're the same on that count then yeah i love a bit of cold water i don't love it no none of us love it that's the wrong word but it makes you feel really good it does something great it does because it shocks your system a little bit and that's why i would need maybe i would feel really good you know if i just go up and i take a super cold shower even just that for the rest of the day you've done something to your nervous system and you've done something to like put yourself out of that very very comfortable bed or box or whether you you know whatever just a little like okay you've pushed yourself to do something today yeah um i did not take cold showers hey i wouldn't give yourself a hard time you're in the middle of a tour you've got quite a lot going on i wouldn't worry too much so how will things go today so you're going to go to the venue you'll do the gig after the gig can you sleep like how do you wind down and process being on stage in front of thousands yeah because i feel a little razzed up yeah i feel like whoa like let's go party yeah yeah but i do like like i'm not a super big party girl because i like a conversation and i really like a one-on-one you know with my friends but um tonight i might go for like a little cheers because we are in London and this show is like the friends and family one so it'll be a lot of people there that I know but afterwards yeah I try to you know I go back to my room I have a little shower the thing with me though is I find it very relaxing and comfortable like being by myself but I don't like go to sleep I've never liked it really going to sleep I don't like a day ending it's so sad to me wow we are the opposite person i can't fucking wait really well i might can i go to bed at eight i might be excited to be like oh i'm back in my room it feels cozy and now my my like my nighttime starts and that's so exciting to me it's like i'm gonna scroll i'm gonna do a little playlist i might be on pinterest i'm gonna like how do i want to renovate my kitchen how do i like that's what it starts to me oh I make lists oh wow I'll be like oh no I'm done I'm like oh thank god it's dark I'm going to bed wow yeah I love it sometimes I have to trick myself when I go to sleep like okay this is not a good night this is just a nap and that's when I can fall asleep how interesting I find this fascinating and how do you feel ahead of the show are there nerves or do you feel completely at ease walking onto a stage like that?

49:40It depends on. I think I would feel a little bit more like excited. Not so nervous. I really don't like being nervous at all. But I feel excited. I feel excited because now today it's, like I said, it's for the friends and family and people I know. But I feel like on TV, I do get a little nervous because it's just like a very short amount of time. Oh, it's the pressure. It's the pressure. You sing one song has to be perfect. and it's online, you know, forever for people to see. But for shows, it's more about like we're having fun. It's really a moment for everyone in that room. And I just want to have a good time.

50:20And I feel like I always do. So for that, I'm not so nervous. I feel like also I know the show so well. Yeah, everyone on stage is just vibing, like really having a good time. So I don't have any rituals that I'm doing. I barely warm up to be honest just get out there and do it you just get out there and do it yeah good for you yeah well look I hope you have an amazing show tonight thank you so much in that beautiful historic venue and just good luck with the rest of your brilliant year that you've got planned it's been so nice chatting to you it was so nice thank you for having me thank you Zara oh Zara you brilliant human I really hope that the roundhouse show went absolutely brilliantly and that you had a lovely little scroll on Pinterest to wind down at the end of it all.

51:05Oh, I love a scroll on Pinterest. Zara's new album is called Venus and it's exactly the kind of uplifting pop music we all need right now. I wonder how ambitious you feel and how you feel about your ambitions. I'd love to know. Come and chat to us over on Instagram at happyplaceofficial. All right, back next week. But in the meantime, a massive thanks again to Zara, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Play Studios and to you, your ace.

52:03Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine.

52:34Nicotine is an addictive chemical. You're invited to spend an evening on Fremont Avenue. For generations, this house has been home to soulful music, good food, and cutthroat card games. Saints and sinners. Unexpected laughs and unspoken truths. Good times, hard times, and of course, family. Always family. So pull up a chair and join us at Fremont Avenue. A world premiere play only at Arena Stage. Performances start October 8th. Tickets at arenastage.org. At Capella University, we believe accessible education can make a difference in people's lives. That's why we offer scholarship opportunities to all eligible students.

53:17Whether you're considering a bachelor's, master's, or doctoral degree, our teams will walk you through the process and help you get the savings you are eligible for. Furthering your education is an investment in yourself. Entonces, ¿qué estás esperando? Un futuro diferente está más cerca de lo que crees con Capella University. Learn more at capella.edu.