Zayn: Introversion, fatherhood, and VHS tapes

0:00Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that explores emotional growth. Today I'm chatting to Zane. The writing process, I think any direct correlation to being a father is just having a bit more depth to pull from when I'm talking about real life things. What was I going to write a song about at 17? I just came out of school, I did my A-levels. I've lived some life now, I have this love for this other being that I never understood before and I don't have any fears or worries expressing that because it's such a good feeling and beautiful thing that I've been through. I don't know, it just feels like I want to share that with the world in a mature, fatherly way.

0:45Zayn is a multi-platinum selling artist, songwriter, producer and philanthropist. He's known for his absolutely skyscraping vocals and hybrid pop and R &B style, but he's been working on something a little bit different recently. Room Under the Stairs, his new album, is his most personal work. It's genre bending. He's leaning into a brand new sound. There are more soulful vocals and live instrumentation. The lyrics explore the complexities of healing, stillness and growth. All themes we touch on in this chat, actually. Fatherhood has changed him. He's learnt patience from having a child, haven't we all?

1:28We talk about animals too and how we can learn the art of being present with them. He's just generally slowed his life right down. He'd rather spend his time in the countryside painting and cooking than in a busy city always on his phone. No, honestly, he talks about how he's perfectly happy to be off his phone for two or three days at a time. He just turns it off. So there's something for all of us to aspire to.

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3:04To Zane in just a moment, but first, some exciting stuff about the Happy Place Festivals this summer. We're going to be at Chiswick House and Gardens on the 13th and 14th of July and Tatton Park on the 31st of August and the 1st of September. And there are going to be so many gorgeous things to do and be a part of. Our sound healing and discovery TP is going to be home to sessions like self-love sound baths. Oh, I want to be in there. There'll be vibrational toning sessions. What does it even mean? And mantra magic too. And we've got BSL interpreted yoga classes, men only workshops, gorgeous live music, silent discos and book readings as well.

3:49So go get your ticket. Invite the gang. And we're at happyplaceofficial.co.uk. All right, let's do it. This is the show.

4:20Hello, Zane. Hello. How are you? I'm well, thank you. How are you? I'm really good. It's really good to sit down with you today. Do you know what I love about you, Zane? No. I love the fact that you've still got a proper Bradford accent. Oh yeah, that's not going anywhere. It's really not. It's deeply rooted in there at this stage. I love it because often when you get, it could be actors or musicians who've been living in the States for quite a while, they come back and you've got that slight hybrid thing going on. You are 100 % Bradford. I appreciate that. I try to make an effort to keep it real, you know.

4:52It's great. It's a good thing. So you're back in the UK. Does that mean you'll get time to go to Bradford or is it too much of a whirlwind? This time, probably not. But I just got a bit of time there for my birthday, like a couple of months ago. So I got to spend a bit of time there. My mum came out with me to America and stuff, so it was nice. But this time it's a quick trip. So just in and out, doing some work and then get back to my daughter as quick as possible. so when you're up in Bradford what do you have to do? what are the must do, must eat, must see things? must do probably see my mum family eat some of my mum's cooking which is what?

5:30she cooks all kinds of good stuff she cooks really good British food but also she can cook Indian Pakistani food too it'll probably be a mix up between I always ask her to make me s'morses or a real good like Sunday dinner so like I said it's a bit of both. Love that. Have you still got friends in Bradford that you want to touch base with when you're there? Yeah I do yeah I've got my two best friends that I still keep in touch with like pretty much every day we talk so when I'm back yeah I get to hang out with them a bit it's nice. That's so nice it's so lovely. I've heard you say before that your mum's opinion is the one opinion that counts so when things are noisy and there's stuff going on as long as your mum is knowing the truth and knowing what's going on you're good is she good at just telling you straight even if she doesn't agree with what you're doing saying yeah getting up to yeah I think that's what it is you know I know she's always going to be honest with me um so I rely on her opinion for the honesty factor you know uh you know certain points I think the moment that you're referencing there when I said you know I asked my mum like that was when I left the band yeah man there was so much noise around that you know I mean so many different influences so I was just like as long as my mum's cool with me actually just coming home and she's okay with it then nothing else really matters yeah so I do you know ask her opinion on on quite a few things yeah I'm a bit of a mummy's boy I love that and does Bradford always feel safe and calm is that like somewhere you need to go to get that equilibrium and that chilled out time uh yeah I guess you know safe's a funny word I don't know about safe you're probably not safe Yeah, no, it's grounding for sure.

7:11I definitely need to reconnect with that. Yeah, because I feel like it puts my feet back on the earth a little bit. And obviously, I'm not trying to get rid of this accent. So it's good to keep it refreshed with the locals. It's such a good accent as well. Thank you. It's brilliant. Can American people understand what you're saying? Yeah, I've got used to certain words that they use to explain things. Are you having to say water? I say water, but I pronounce the T. Obviously, if you're from Brafford, you say water. You know what I mean? Like, you don't even say the T. So I pronounce my T's for them so they understand what I'm saying.

7:45Yeah, but they seem to be getting to grips with it. You're muddling through. Yeah, slowly, yeah. I've only been there seven years, you know what I mean? That's good. So, look, let's talk about your new album. That's why you're in the UK, to tell us all about it. so let's start with the name room under the stairs tell me the story yeah so the concept of the album was pretty much you know to do something that was raw real and honest and i felt like the best place to do that would be like in my home rather than having to go to different studios and different places and i had this little uh studio set up in like uh the equivalent of like a shoe closet basically underneath the stairs in my house so i just felt it was a really poignant name for for the record to let people get some insight you know into the whole recording process of things too so that's why we called it room under the stairs yeah and did recording it at home and working on it at home help you feel very comfortable so that you could talk about things you might haven't before uh yeah definitely i think um that was one of the main like uh intentions behind doing it at home so that i could just like you know rock up to the studio my pajamas no shoes on no socks just do yeah just do your thing like chill um and i've worked with a guy who i've been working with for about like 10 years on and off on all the records and stuff um so it was real cool it was just chill it didn't feel like there was a lot of pressure you know when we got an idea we got an idea when we didn't we didn't we just hung out and like did chill things like cooked food and relaxed at the house yeah that's so nice um as you've said it's raw and you're talking about subjects and showing parts of your personality and your story that you haven't previously what did you want your fans to learn about you or for just us you know just everybody out there to know who the real zane is the idea behind that is i think for for myself i just feel like i've grown up so much in the last like six years like matured as a person um into myself i've learned a lot of things in life and um the main thing i've learned is just not to take things too seriously not to overthink things you know just be yourself be as honest as you can as simple as that sounds and as cliche as it sounds like it's a it's been a real turning point for me and since um obviously putting the record together I've just wanted to like be behind it fully and show that like I'm behind my own ideas you know um and that you know even in the past maybe where I haven't sent as as present um it was just nerves you know like I'm just quite a shy guy um like to keep myself to myself and I'm slowly getting used to this idea that you know I'm a pop star dude I do this as a job like um and it's and it's a nice feeling yeah to be able to connect with that like um and you know explain it to people in that way I think I think that's a really that's the healthy way around to have it rather than I'm a pop star everybody you should know this I like the fact that you're still going oh yeah This is the job that I'm a pop star and I've got to put myself out there and that might be uncomfortable at times.

10:56How are you navigating keeping yourself private and feeling comfortable with what you're saying versus an album that is raw and does show the world who you are? Was it difficult to keep something back for yourself? Were you quite clear on the things that you didn't want to express in this record? It's a really good question. um yeah no um the the balance is is key you know when you're um writing anything i think you want to give enough information that people know what's going on but you don't want to be like yo i wore this red jumper and i went to this place at 9 p.m on tuesday and i seen this person and give people's names you know um so there's a way you can be poetic about it and be ambiguous and clever you know but still get your point across um and that's what i enjoy about music you know it that's what makes it um relevant to so many people as they listen um you know just kind of getting the key points in there but kind of glazing over the rest of it um and with this i feel like i've done a good job of like making it explanatory to people like this is what i was going through but not too much detail you know like i said like i'm not telling what i had for dinner yeah yeah probably a samosa yeah i'm just there i was lucky enough to hear a few tracks that I don't think other people have heard or many people have heard so far and it is such a beautiful album your voice is stunning on it and it's an unexpected style perhaps but one that really works with your vocal really works with the lyrics you work with Dave Cobb who's worked with people like Chris Stapleton so we know that there's sort of that country influence there what drew you to that genre of music why did that work this time um I think it was my environment you know like where I'm at in the world in Pennsylvania it's rural like farm and just being out there a lot I spent a lot of time listening to that kind of music funny enough that you mentioned Chris Stapleton because he was a massive like inspiration for for this record like I was listening to a lot of his music on vinyl just out in the middle of the sticks and And it inspired me to want to do something that was real and raw like him, you know.

13:10I appreciate his lyricism. I love the fact that he's an amazing storyteller too. And I felt like the genre of music lent towards that. Like it gave you that space to be able to tell a story, you know. And that's why I wanted to do that. Yeah, it was fully, you know, big kudos to Chris Stapleton. Like I've not even really liked much music for the last 10 years, I'll be honest with you. Yeah, like just kind of just stuck to what I knew as a younger person, you know. and just listen to my favourites. But when I listened to him, it inspired me. And I was like, this is something really cool, like broadened my horizons.

13:44His first album is outrageous. He's ridiculous, isn't he? His voice. I can't listen to it and not be totally covered in goosebumps. He's insane. He's insane, yeah. Have you ever seen him live? I've not seen him live. I'd like to go see him live. Would you say why? No, I said I haven't either. I thought you said why. Why? Yeah, why? Why have you not? I don't even know, you know. I'd love to go see him. I've not been to much music, like many live gigs. I'm going to one today, though. Oh, nice. DO2, Ray's performing. Oh, Ray, fantastic. So I'm going to go see that today. How do you go to a gig? How does Zayn Malik go to a gig?

14:18She'll give me a box. Oh, right, okay, you're all right. Yeah, she looked after me. You're sneaking in in disguise. Into the box, yeah. You're in the box, you're safe, you're good. Yeah, man. Well, that's going to be fantastic, going to see Ray tonight. She's amazing. I mean, I haven't been to a gig in ages. Yeah, I love her boys. I'm too tired. I can't stay up that late. I'm exhausted I can imagine yeah when you've got the kids to look after it gets like that for sure but she's not here now so getting that off you know exactly you've got to do it and I think actually there's nothing like watching live music and you sort of go to a gig and go why don't I do this all the time just seeing someone just being themselves on stage and showing that raw talent it's just such an inspiring thing no I agree yeah it's going to be beautiful as I said I love the style of music the album's absolutely beautiful there's a song on the album called Alienated which I think the melody is so gorgeous and the lyrics seem really personal.

15:06Talk to me about that song. Where did the idea for that start? What's going on with that one? So that was like the first start to the album, pretty much. I wrote that song first and then the rest of the songs on the record kind of followed that one. And it was just the first time like I'd done something in that space. The inspiration, I think, is pretty self-explanatory. You know, like I don't need to give anybody's names away or anything, but you know, been through some relationship stuff and that was definitely correlated there. I wasn't feeling quite at home in my situation. I felt like the word alienated summed that up in the best manner.

15:42So that was the inspiration behind it. And I talk about certain things in that song that I was feeling around that time. With these songs being that bit more personal, how do you think you're going to feel when you are on a stage singing them aloud? Because that's quite an emotional thing to do. Yeah, it is, but also it's empowering, you know, like I felt disconnected, you know, to the things that I was performing before because it didn't feel like it was really me, you know, like I can sing R &B music and it works for my vocal, but actually performing it on stage, I never felt like I could connect to it, you know, like I'm not Chris Brown, I'm not Usher, I'm not going to pull out some dance moves, I'm not going to start, you know, giving the schmoozy eyes and all that.

16:28that like i just want to stand there and sing you know and this music felt like that gave me that space to do that so that's why i wanted to do it yeah how are you feeling about getting out there and singing these songs live i'm excited yeah like uh like i said it's empowering to like own your shit you know and like actually i don't know if i'm allowed to say that but it's it's important you can use all the swears i can yeah is that okay any swears you like oh that's wicked i like this yeah yeah yeah any of them like people have dropped the c-bomb by the way like there are no rules you literally yeah yeah i was told i'm never allowed to say that okay Okay, that's your own personal role.

16:59Yeah, yeah. Sure. But what was my point? I forgot what I was saying. Don't know, Zane. Own your shit. Own your shit. Yeah, like to actually own it, it has to come from you and you have to feel like you want to share that, you know, with people. And I feel like I'm in that place where I'm like, I'm a grown man. This is what I've been through and this is what happened, you know? Yeah. What was the writing process of that like? because it is really powerful to sit and write down your thoughts, even if it's in a journal or a quick few notes to just digest what's happened in the day. This takes it to the next level because you write them down and then it becomes this beautiful piece of art.

17:39But there's something really magical about just writing down how you're feeling. Was that in any way therapeutic? Yeah, I think all writing is pretty cathartic. You know, like it gets that feeling off your chest. it's a really useful like therapy technique too i'm being told you know so people do it a lot for that and i think it's very beneficial because when you see things written down in front of you you have to look at it from an outside perspective you know like how is this going to be perceived how do i look what people thinking about me saying this you know and that then in turn makes you question you know what are my intentions you know like why am I moving this way why am I doing this and it can help you you know process them things yeah without a doubt it's a really helpful tool one that I definitely use all the time so let's talk about Pennsylvania because it seems like you have found yourself a corner of peace in this crazy world and certainly the crazy world that you live in and that it feels really good for you to be in that kind of space definitely yeah I love pennsylvania it's super chill real quiet you know i get time to think and and work on stuff you know like when i'm doing my music i don't i don't have a lot of noise around me there's not a lot of outside influences i can just really concentrate on my own thoughts which is a good feeling but i just love being there anyway it's just uh it reminds me of england weirdly enough like the architecture and everything is is kind of similar i've never been you've never been green and yeah Yeah, green and lush and a lot of the original people that settled there were European settlers.

19:18So it has that kind of feel to it, you know? And I just love it, yeah. And the weather's kind of like England too. It's not great, it's not too hot. Oh God, didn't you want to go somewhere suddenly? No, man, I'm cool with it. Yeah, I'm used to it. I like what I like. I'm so over. This has been the longest winter of my life. Look, I like a vacation, you know what I mean? We all like to get away in the summer. Yeah, to be real, I prefer to have seasons, you know? When I lived in LA and it was sunny all the time, I didn't even know what time of year it was. I get you. I understand that. Especially around Christmas, you want it to feel all cosy and lovely.

19:50I know you have lived in New York previously, but being in a city would be too loud, too bustly. What's the feeling? Yeah, I lived there for like four years and that's what it was. It just felt very intrusive. I was living in an apartment on one of the busiest streets in New York. so whenever I would come outside of my house there was just like a whole crowd of people there paparazzi and that kind of stuff Fun Yeah, it wasn't great Yeah, it didn't feel good and then obviously when we were having the kid and stuff I wasn't actually giving birth to her myself but when we were having the kid it seemed like a smart decision to keep her away from that and like not have so much intrusion on her too Yeah, and just have some space and nature She gets to run round in the fields and yeah, we get to go camping and barbecue outside whenever world without people watching us straight out the front yeah but also it seems that you're comfortable in a much more peaceful habitat would you say i'm talking to you like you're an animal yeah in your habitat it is fully a habitat you know so it's all good it's fine would you say you're an introvert um yeah i think so but i think it's like contradictory because of my profession so i guess i'm somewhat an extrovert because i do like to share things with people but But as a day-to-day person, I'm definitely introverted.

21:05I am. I'm an introvert with an extrovert job. And I can do condensed periods of time talking to people and being around humans. And I love it. And then I have to retreat and I have to get really, really quiet. Otherwise, I combust. Yeah. You need to replenish the energy, I think. I think it can become draining. I think we forget how much energy it actually takes to just have a conversation. If you're actually having a good one. you know and that's something that obviously every person needs to find a balance with themselves so I enjoy being there I feel like it recharges my batteries a bit and then I have the energy to come out and do these kind of things you know yeah it's so good and you've got all your pets there yeah I do how many have you got now I've got a lot I've got three dogs four cats three turtles wow I'm getting four more chickens so that will be ten chickens are you laying your own eggs well not you laying them but the chickens I'm laying them myself personally right got you no yeah I am yeah we collect the eggs every day with with Kyber like she comes outside with me get the eggs and stuff yeah she loves it that what a dream I am a huge cat person I've got two I would have a hundred if my husband would let me I love cats and I've got a tortoise and actually they get on real good yeah they do yeah but I think tortoises or turtles whatever you have like I think they're pretty chill like they are the most chilled yeah I don't think they really care about what's around them.

22:31No, and if they do, they'll just go in their shell, fuck off, I'm off, I'm out of it. That's it, fuck off, I'm going to sleep. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie.

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23:45I find that pets, to me, again, are they're grounding, they're soothing. You don't take things so seriously. it gives you the time and space to just sit and be still because you can just hang out with them is that one of the reasons why you've got so many uh yeah uh it's uh i think it's a personality thing you know i like to live in the moment um i'm not really like um an avid phone user either like i just turn my phone off for like two three days really not use it at all yeah i'm just not interested um and they just have that down you know they're very present in their being and they're just in the moment just there with you so that helps me to be there with them too you know and yeah that's why i enjoy animals you know there's no um hinge point there's no catch they don't want anything from you aside from love they don't judge you yeah they don't judge you they just love you and if you do piss them off they're over it in two seconds it's like they're the best i prefer them to humans me too yeah i was gonna say that yeah they're better yeah i i'd agree i I think they're way better than human beings.

24:46They really are. They're fantastic. I love this no phone thing. Very fascinated because we're all addicted. Most of us are addicted to them for several reasons. We get that instant dopamine hit. If we're bored, we're just doom scrolling or looking at emails at 10 o 'clock at night, whatever it might be. You're pretty disciplined about this. Yeah, I'm not interested at all. Just like not bothered. It's gone over my head. So are people frustrated by that? Do they mind you're not emailing back or WhatsAppping or whatever? Some people say that I'm shit communicating. I'm not gonna lie which is you know true so it's fine but yeah it just it works for me you know like I I'm quite an addictive personality too and when I would spend time scrolling I would just do it for like hours and forget like that I'd been doing the same thing for three hours and it just felt like a waste of my time for you know reading 7 ,000 positive comments and then read one negative and that just ruins reading every other comment.

25:42So I was like, I'm just going to stay away from this, you know, in terms of like social media. But with my phone in general, yeah, I'm just not like other people. You know, I feel like everyone's got a real need to be on the phone all the time. The only person I feel like I need to have that necessity for is my daughter. You know, like I check in on her and see what she's doing. But aside from that, I'm not really bothered what the rest of the world is up to. I think that's really cool because none of us had one 20 years ago and we were getting on just fine. We'd meet with people at the time we said we were going to meet, which my kids think is mental.

26:15Like, what? You just turned up at four and they were there. Yep, that's how it worked. How did that work? How did that work? We coped. So I do think it's bizarre that we're so massively, well, we feel we're so dependent on them, but we are obviously then just using them for all sorts of reasons that's not helping us. When did you have this realisation? Honestly, probably like when I first moved out to PA because it was just off the grid. Like I didn't feel like I needed to be in touch with people constantly, you know, like checking in. Like you said, if you're meeting with people all the time, it probably is, you know, a good comfort to have so that you can check and make sure everything's good.

26:49But for me, I was just staying in one place, like you said, in my habitat. Yeah. And I just didn't feel a need for it. Yeah, it just was like, it's all good. I'll just live off the grid here, play my vinyl. I have a VHS TV combi. I still watch VHS. This is wild. Collect VHS. Yeah, I'm not even about this new tech age at all. Oh my God. Look at you with your Bradford accent watching Friends on VHS. That's it. What's going on? Getting back to grips, getting back to the roots of things. But it's brilliant because you know what it is? It's slowing the hell down. It is, yeah. And everything is so fast.

27:24And obviously parts of your life are because you're in the music industry and it is quick. And you've got to keep up and you've got to do the tours and whatever it is. But when you can, to actively choose to slow down, I think is so important. But not many of us do it. I think it takes actually great discipline to do that. Yeah. I think I just enjoy it a lot, though, too. I think for some people that find it hard, it probably would be helpful to have a bit more discipline. But with me, it's something that I just enjoy doing. So it doesn't feel like it's discipline for me. So you're really good in your own company.

28:00Yeah. Yeah. I like myself. Yeah. I like my own company. I don't think I've ever been bored. No. No? Yeah, I don't think I have either. I like to read and stuff too. Yeah. Are you reading anything at the moment? I've been reading a collection of stories called the Bachman books. Okay. And it's Stephen King's alter ego that he has. He writes under another name called Bachman. And he's got like three or four books in there. There's some interesting stories in there. I bet there are. And painting. You love to paint? I do love to paint. What are you painting? What medium are you using? I use all kinds.

28:35I like to paint with acrylic mainly, but I spray paint a lot too. And spray painting has taught me a lot, even with the paintbrush. Coming back from the spray paint to the canvas just seems to refine your skills a little bit. I love drawing. I love sketching, pencil sketching. I love comic books. And obviously I'm very into tattoos as well. My whole body's covered at this point. So yeah, I love art, expression in it. it is it's a beautiful thing i i love painting i use acrylics too i haven't moved to oils yet i i i should do i'm in my 40s it should be a thing but i i just find acrylics easy yeah i find it hard to use oil paints yeah i don't dry no take forever i know i love acrylics and what are you painting are you landscapes are they people different things yeah i have a lot of um like love for cartoons so a lot of my art tends to like lean that way like animated kind of style you know big thick black lines and like bold colors and stuff i lean towards that nice where do you paint what's the setup uh it depends uh i have like a little cap like a barn outside of my house i sometimes paint in there or just sometimes in my basement or in my living room nice and are you displaying them are you giving them as gifts where do they go displayed one so far of my own on the wall and i've kept the rest of them just like in storage hopefully at some point I'll have enough to like maybe do a gallery or something you know when I'm like 40 years old like oh so old no no no 10 years would you do an extra like a proper exhibition I'd love to yeah I've got enough work I think I could do it yeah that'd be so cool what a lovely thing to do what about the album artwork that's gorgeous thank you yeah who did that it was like heavily dictated by my vision nice I didn't actually physically paint or draw that myself I wish I could do that that was amazing so lovely but yeah the the idea behind that was to get somebody you know to paint or draw something that looked like it fit in in like pennsylvania like you see the i don't know if you've ever seen the blueprints of like some of the buildings there no no i haven't um so yeah it was just based in in in that kind of style of art and stuff for for pierre it's so lovely do you find it you know being a dad and having this crazy career do you have to actively carve out this time to paint to cook to do the things that really help ground you yeah definitely um i have my daughter 50 of the time so i have that luxury you know that like 50 of the time she's not with me and i try to look at as a glass half full than a glass half empty um so in that time i get things done you know i get a bit of time to myself get to paint and do the things when she's in the house i'm sure you know from having your own kids you can't do nothing yeah so i just father then you know i mean from the minute she wakes up till she goes to sleep yeah You can't even have a wee.

31:17You can't do anything. No, you can't go to the toilet. No, don't be mad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I haven't had a wee on my own for years. 13 years. Yeah, it's impossible. But I'm so glad that you are finding the time to do it. Because I love painting, but I can really fall off the wagon and go, oh, I won't start still, I'll do it next week. And then it doesn't happen for six months. Yeah, no, that does happen too. Yeah, for sure. And things can get on top. But it's important, I think, to take that time. It is. When you have a bit of time. And when you're in it, time doesn't exist. I could do a whole day and I haven't even had a sip of water and I'm like oh my god yeah just enjoying yourself so good best feeling and you love cooking that's a hobby that helps you to get centre yeah I love cooking I feel like it's expression again you know it's creative like you can mess around with different things and put different things in and make it fun like depending on you know what you want to eat what's your dish my dish that I make a lot is spaghetti bolognese nice and I like making tandoori chicken like red chicken put it in wraps or whatever you know what I mean but that's a staple like I go to that one a lot just a bit of seasoning a bit of chickening are you a uh pinnickety cook are you like very precise with the measurements you getting the spices out the rack you just whack it all in I'm more just trying to feel it yeah whack it all in a little bit but yeah like I'm not just like crazy with it but like yeah I just feel it you know I mean I'm not like specific about measurements or anything I don't like shit you are an unlikely pop star you've got the most amazing voice which makes you have more than the credentials to actually do the job.

32:45But in terms of how you live, you're an unlikely pop star. You like the quiet life. You like to chill. You like to paint. You like to cook. You want to be on your own. Have you always been like this? Or was this a reaction to you starting so early? Yeah, I think I've always been like this. Even if you ask my mum, she'll tell you the same thing. I like to be in my own space and do my own thing. And she said, that's not abnormal. You've been that way since you were a small kid, like three, four years old, apparently. I would just like go off by myself and like to sit by myself, play by myself, read by myself.

33:16Like, so it's just something that's always been a part of my personality. I think to say that it hasn't been somewhat affected by what I've done would be a lie, you know, because I think that just gave me the turtle effect. You know, I do a bit too much and I went back inside the shell a little bit, you know what I mean? So, yeah, it's definitely a combination of both, but I am naturally quite introverted, I think. Yeah. how did you cope with i mean you started young for a start you know at 17 years old you've still got a developing brain you're still trying to work out who you are in the world and then you're exposed to everything everything that any young person wants is right there for you how did you cope knowing that you know you are inherently a a shy person and someone that needs their own space well not very well initially to be honest like um i didn't really go out much before i was in the band to be honest either like 17 years before like I was just kind of in my home space doing my own thing going to school um I didn't really go out clubbing or do anything like that so all of them things were new to me and then obviously on the on the stage of you know the opportunity that we had so like everything was on stats you know it was 10 times more than the normal 18 year old so um I went a bit crazy you know I mean I did party I went out and drank and did all them things and I just realized that them things didn't really make me feel happy you know just felt kind of empty and just doing things on a cycle so I felt like it was uh important for me to make a change and that like I needed to be proactive about it you know I want to remove myself from this and go and do the things that actually give me that good feeling inside so that's why I moved out to PA when I did um and that's why I'm still there because it's been the best like six seven years of my life I think to this point.

35:03Yeah, good for you. I mean, I don't think anyone copes with any of it. It's absolutely bananas. And I think, I wonder how you feel looking back.

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36:48About how young you started. I mean, I started in TV very young and I didn't do great at school. I didn't go to uni, I didn't do a gap year, I missed all my school proms because I was always filming. Part of me is so grateful that I started early because I don't think I would have had the realisations I did so early. But equally I think, oh I wonder what a gap year would have been like, or I wonder would I have loved uni? Would I have made a whole bunch of new friends? I don't know. There's a part of me that wonders. Do you ever think about the things you didn't do? Oh yeah, for sure. But I think that's like a natural thing for everybody.

37:23you know we always wonder what if like the grass is always greener on the other side right so yeah i've thought about it a lot i don't think my life would have been anywhere near as exciting i'll be honest with you you know so i'm not complaining about it i'm really grateful for it too um but i do think about it yeah from time to time just you know ask myself that question yeah and i wonder yeah i wonder who you'd be zane if you hadn't what would you be doing i wanted to be a teacher did you yeah i wanted to teach english really yeah i really liked english in school i did my english gcse a year early they put me in for it at 15 i think you meant to do it at 16 wow um and i passed i got an air star and stuff like i did really well always enjoyed poetry so i i enjoyed being in school too so i i thought this is the perfect opportunity for me to like as a profession like do something that's rewarding and and be in a place that i actually enjoy you know so that was the plan but i was also studying theater too so i was like i'd love to you know possibly do some acting but i never really followed that through either just when i got into the music i just fell so in love with music that i just concentrated on furthering my my ability in that field because it's your job right so i was like maybe i should be good at this if this is what we're gonna do yeah i mean you still got you can still go back to being an english teacher or yeah or a poet or an actor you've still got time to do any of these things it's all up for grabs hopefully I love it I think it's brilliant I think um I wonder how everybody else in your life felt around that time knowing that and I guess also just seeing the full momentum of how things were going for your career at such a young age were there concerns did your mum say is this really what you want or was she quite for it how were those around you about it you know what I think my parents were super supportive but they were just very innocent you know to the whole idea of what it entails in terms of like commitment and time so they were always very supportive but I think it was an adjustment for them like to really understand you know what what it was about because I didn't get to see them at all and I think that was the main thing that they had to adjust to but aside from that yeah no my mum and dad are just real chill like they were obviously you know concerned about me but they would never like pressure me and make me feel bad you know what I mean so I'm grateful for for my parents man I have two solid parents yeah that's amazing and they must miss you so much being so far away how do they feel about you being in the states uh yeah that's what I'm saying like it's it's difficult um for my father to come out because he doesn't like traveling so I don't get to see him that much but my mum's been coming out a lot more since Kai's been born and you know I think that's to do with the fact that she wants to be around Kai she didn't used to spend that much effort coming to see me it's all about her granddaughter she does it for her granddaughter and that's beautiful they have a real nice relationship and it's nice to see her with my daughter is your daughter your mum's first grandchild?

40:26she's not no she's the second she's got three now three grandkids it's a lovely relationship for your mum to have as well yeah it's it's really really special do you think that fatherhood has changed how you approach music how you write i think father's changed me in general i think it's changed my approach to a lot of things in life definitely developed a hell of a lot more patience oh my god for things you know it's the one thing that you just don't consider you don't think you've got to be patient you just think oh i'll figure it out it's like patience is number one it's key yeah it's key so yeah that definitely has influenced me across the board you know and then the writing process I think any direct correlation to you know being a father is just like having a bit more depth to pull from you know when I'm talking about real life things like what was I gonna write a song about at 17 I just came out of school I did my air levels you know I mean like I had nothing going on like I've lived some life now I've I have this love for this you know this other being that I never understood before and I don't have any fears or worries expressing that because it's such a good feeling and you know beautiful thing that I've been through and it I don't know it just feels like I want to share that with the world in a mature fatherly way you know are you the sort of dad you thought you were going to be because I thought I was going to be this really chilled mum yeah like yeah really cool about everything I'm not yeah fact I am not uh yeah I thought I was going to be worse stricter than I am um I had this whole thing like I'm not gonna let my kids get away with this they're not gonna do that she asked me to do this and we'll be like no and I do everything she asked me to do whenever she asked me to do it so yeah I found myself she's got you run a little finger yeah it's always the way isn't it though but my god it's a trip no one tells you anything that you actually need to know it's all about these tiny details and then you get into being a parent and it's completely different.

42:29That's for sure. It's completely different. It's absolutely crazy. Any room for any more tattoos? In some places, yeah. I'm pretty covered. My back's got a bit of space. What's going to be next? I'm not sure yet. I hadn't thought of anything for a while, actually. I hadn't had the itch. So where do the ideas come from? Are they all related to times in your life, moments that have happened, things you want to commemorate? Not really. No, I'm a bit more like just creative about it. Like if I like the way something looks, you know, like and it fits because I've got so many different things now. Like I'll see a space and I'm like, this image might look quite cool here.

43:07Some things do mean, you know, certain things to me, like little verses or bits of writing I've got on me, just like a memento or whatever or something somebody said to me. But I don't like to overthink it like that. You know, it's just it's art and they look fucking cool. So I just get them for that reason, as vain as it sounds, you know what I mean? They're great. Most painful place? Most painful place? Ribs, maybe? Ribs, yeah. Neck was fine, head was fine. Head was fine? This? Head did not hurt. Haven't we got loads of nerve endings up here? I don't know what was going on. Maybe I don't have any nerve endings in my head or something.

43:43Wow. I didn't feel anything. I just sat there, I was just chilling. Wow, good for you. because when I saw the picture of this tattoo, I was like, no thanks. That is ouch. Oh my God. Well, look, I wish you all the luck with this album. I know it's absolutely craziness what you have to go through to promote an album these days. So all the love, all the luck and then get back to Pennsylvania and chill out with your chickens. Well, thank you. I don't think it's been that crazy. I've really enjoyed it. So it was nice to be here. And if you don't want that cardigan, I will take it off your hands. Yeah, I'm glad you like it.

44:18It's ace. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Zane. No worries. Thank you. Can I also just say what happened after the podcast? I was slightly nervous about admitting this in case Zane mega fans, who I know you're all gorgeous people out there, are going to try and hunt me down and get this off me. But after we finished the podcast, one of Zane's team came running back into the room and went, look, Zane said have the cardigan. And I was like, don't be bonkers. I was joking. I was only mucking about and she went nope he said he doesn't need it have it so I now have Zane's cardigan and I genuinely love it and have worn it on several occasions if you haven't seen the pictures online or seen the YouTube version of this interview yet it is a very soft grey cardigan with little sort of gem studs all over it like it is proper a bit of me he's the loveliest bloke ever.

45:14Thank you so much to Zayn. Zayn's new album, Room Under the Stairs, is out now. Zayn and I obviously love a bit of painting. What's your little joy in life, your little way of retreating? Let me know on Instagram at happyplaceofficial. That's where we're going to be until we're back here in a week's time. The biggest thanks again to lovely Zayn, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios, and to you, I love you.

45:57so

46:08hi this is nox from the podcast with nox and jamie and maybe like us at the podcast you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either three or six milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine.

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