Fact Checking Trump’s Drug Price Claims; Could Putin Use a Stalemate To Push Beyond Ukraine?

0:00Keir Simmons: Basically, they lay out the story that this man rose to the top ranks of the CIA and was able to pull off this scheme where he stole nearly$200 million of taxpayer money and no one stopped him. Hi, everybody, and welcome to Here's the Scoop from NBC News. I'm Yasmin Basugian. So today on the show, you remember the story of that former CIA officer who was found with gold bars and millions of dollars in cash. Well, he's back and he's got another huge revelation that's taken another turn in the story. Also, Russia has been battering Ukraine as of late, during the day. And Ukraine is fighting back.

0:41Keir Simmons: But how much do they have left? How much can they sustain this battering from Russia? Up first, though, health care costs are a major concern for voters in the midterms. And President Trump says that he has delivered for Americans by lowering drug prices. We went from the highest prescription drug prices by far anywhere in the world to the lowest prescription drug prices anywhere in the world. But a recent analysis of the TrumpRx.gov website tells a little bit of a different story. So how much is Trump Rx really saving Americans? For this, I want to bring in NBC News health and medical reporter, Brooklyn Lovelace Jr.

1:29Keir Simmons: Hi, Brooklyn.

1:31Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: Hey, how's it going?

1:32Keir Simmons: Good. Okay, so the White House rolled out Trump Rx back in February. Remind us how it works and what exactly it offers to the public.

1:42Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: Yeah, so the main thing to know is that you're not actually buying drugs directly through Trump Rx. So this acts more like a central hub where you can find discounts and coupons for certain drugs. In fact, it actually uses some of GoodRx's infrastructure to power its listings. Some of the coupon cards on TrumpRx actually use some of GoodRx's codes for that as well. And you also can only use cash, so you can't use your insurance. This doesn't count towards your copay or deductibles. And of course, you still need a prescription to buy through TrumpRx. So right now, this is just a central hub where you can find cheaper drugs than you would elsewhere.

2:19Keir Simmons: So as we heard, right, the president is saying, listen, TrumpRx is saving Americans a lot of money. I know, though, that you looked at an analysis from KFF that actually compared TrumpRx drug prices to prices in other wealthy countries. Where is the U.S. actually doing better than other countries based on that analysis? And where is it behind?

2:41Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: So yeah, KFF is a nonpartisan health policy research group, and they compared Trump Rx prices to prices in other wealthy countries, 11 countries, including Canada, France, and Germany. And looking at this, it's almost evenly split. Of the 32 brand name drugs on Trump Rx that they looked at, 17 were lower than the average price abroad, while 15 were higher than the average price. Only five drugs on the list were actually the lowest price out of all the countries. and 13 were the highest. And so some examples of that, and that includes Ozempic, for example. So that's$349 a month on TrumpRx. Among the other wealthy countries, it costs up to$190 a month.

3:25Keir Simmons: So it's a lot less in other countries than it is here in the United States.

3:29Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: It is a lot less in other countries. There are cases where TrumpRx does come out well ahead, and you asked what drugs do well. So we're finding that some cancer drugs do pretty well on TrumpRx compared to other countries. some cholesterol medication. So one drug I looked at as well was a blood cancer drug called RIDAPT. And so that costs around$2 ,900 on Trump Rx. That's less than half the cost in France, the next cheapest country, where it's around$5 ,900. So there's no clear pattern as far as this analysis goes. There's no clear pattern for lower prices or higher prices on Trump Rx.

4:04Keir Simmons: So it seems in some respects that there are instances in which people are saving a little bit of money through Trump Rx. But people that are buying their drugs this way using Trump Rx and like the coupons or the discounts that they're getting there, they're actually not using necessarily their insurance. Right. So. How much are people actually using Trump Rx? Is there a gauge?

4:33Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: Yeah, so I've asked the White House this many times, and they've declined to disclose numbers. I think the main issue, as you were talking about, is that most people have insurance. About 9 in 10 Americans have health insurance. So they can get their drugs cheaper through insurance rather than using Trump or X. I will note, of course, that insurance is getting more expensive. Millions of Americans were forced off the Affordable Care Act this year due to the tax credits expiring. So there are cases where someone may need to pay in cash for a drug and TrumpRx is a good alternative. There's also, of course, cases where your insurance won't cover a certain medication and you'll need to find another alternative.

5:16Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: So those are all great use cases for TrumpRx. But as I was saying, most people do get their drugs through insurance for a much cheaper price through a copay as well. TrumpRx is a little bit more of a niche tool right now because you can't use your insurance on this platform. It's only cash. You know, I am stuck on the fact that there are a couple medications that are actually lower on TrumpRx,

5:41Keir Simmons: but for the most part, it sounds like you can find cheaper medications in wealthier countries or wealthy countries around the world. So how is the administration, if they are at all, justifying that? and how are they spinning the fact that it doesn't seem like Trump-Rox is as big of a success as the president has made it out to be?

6:04Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: When I talk with the White House and when I talk with health care officials as well, a lot of times they are pointing out these examples where there are lower prices as well. And they also tend to now, I think kind of they're initially in February when this launched, This was kind of seen as a one-stop shop for getting your drugs. Now they're increasingly talking about it as more of just a central hub where you can find discounts on certain medications as well. So the conversation around what Trump or X is from the White House has changed in the eight months since it's launched as well. And so I think a big critique I've heard from health policy experts is a lot of these discounts that we see on this website already existed before the website launch.

6:56Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: A lot of these discounts are elsewhere on things like GoodRx, on Mark Cuban Cost Plus Drugs, all these other websites. And really what this website is doing is just aggregating all those discounts together.

7:09Keir Simmons: Is there a better way, though, then to lower drug prices than the tactic that the president has been taking?

7:15Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: So there are a few things that Trump could do. One big thing I've heard is that it would be great if people could use their health insurance through Trump Rx. And so in that case, insurance would be getting a lower price. They would be paying that lower price on Trump Rx. Typically, they are paying that full list price when they're not going through other places and people would still get a copay. There's also other tools that Trump may or may not be using. So the Inflation Reduction Act that was passed in 2022, and it allowed Medicare to negotiate prices on really expensive drugs under that program.

7:50Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: Is it possible we could still get those same deals, but for everybody else who is on private insurance, who is on Medicaid, or people who are paying in cash as well? And also, I think there's also a big push to drive more generics. Trump could make a big policy push to accelerate generics. So make it easier for people to make generic drugs once a patent expires. Right now, that process can take years. And of course, when you have more competition, prices tend to go down.

8:21Keir Simmons: Berkeley Lovelace Jr., thank you.

8:23Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: Thanks.

8:26Keir Simmons: All right, coming up, Russia has been shifting its strategy in Ukraine. launching more daytime strikes. How the U.S. and Europe are responding after a very quick break.

8:39Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. It's destroying athlete, creator, and YouTube Maxer. YouTube Premium enhances how I use YouTube with awesome features like offline downloads so I can download my favorite training videos before I hit the gym. So no Wi-Fi doesn't turn leg day into loading day. Plus, I get ad-free videos, background play, and so much more. YouTube Premium, it's like YouTube got some extra gains. Try YouTube Premium for two months free at youtube.com slash premium. Trial eligibility varies, terms apply, cancel anytime.

9:10Keir Simmons: It's the holiday season at House of Burl, which means that it's the perfect moment to review some key rules. Rule number five, more style means more celebration. Number four, buy gifts, but remember to treat yourself too. Number three, there is no dress code, but always leave them talking. Number two, show off different outfits. No party remains unattended. And rule number one, have it all without spending it all. Happy holidays from House of Burl, Burlington.

9:43Keir Simmons: And we're back with Here's the Scoop from NBC News. So Russia has been intensifying strikes across the Ukraine, killing an increased number of civilians. Just today, at least 30 people died when Russia struck two buses in the Ukrainian frontline city of Krematorysk. Ukraine's been fighting back, though, including launching missiles deep into Russia, even as far as St. Petersburg. But the country is still pretty low on air defenses. So what do these recent hits say about the stage of this war? And are allies delivering on their promises to Ukraine? For this, I want to bring in NBC News chief international correspondent, Keir Simmons.

10:21Hi, Kir.

10:22Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: Hey there. How you doing?

10:23Keir Simmons: So Russia has been hitting Ukraine hard. And in the last two days alone, Russian attacks have killed at least 50 people. And these strikes are increasingly coming during the day, threatening civilians around the clock. What does this say about the new strategy coming out of Moscow?

10:38Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: Well, I think it's a new strategy and an old strategy. Moscow has now for some time taken the view that it should bombard Ukraine, including frankly disregarding the question of whether or not civilians get killed in order to try to force Kiev to capitulate and I think there's a wider objective there too which is to try to persuade Europeans and the United States that Ukraine is not worth supporting and so you You know, those latest numbers from Kamatosk are pretty, well, I think it's the biggest number of civilians killed this year in Ukraine. And we get these different headlines, don't we, of, you know, the biggest strike, the biggest number of civilians.

11:28Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: But certainly it feels, doesn't it, as we head into the winter, as if the pounding is getting worse. And some of that, I think, is to do with the fact that Ukraine is struggling to defend itself. This is what President Zelensky has said. I mean, look, it's defending its territory successfully. This territory it still holds, but it doesn't have the interceptors. President Zelensky says this. It is increasingly struggling to intercept the drones and missiles that Russia is using for these kinds of strikes. And as you mentioned, on the other side of the ledger, the Ukrainians are striking Russia oil refineries, striking the equivalent of Russian Amazon distribution sites, striking even data centers now.

12:20All of that is Ukraine's attempt to really get the Russian people to see that this is not going to end in a victory.

12:31Keir Simmons: It feels like the United States is kind of putting its hands up, right? The Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, is saying that the Russia-Ukraine war is at a stalemate.

12:38Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: Yeah.

12:39Keir Simmons: Ukraine has warned that they're running low on munitions and on funds. And the U.S. is backing off.

12:45Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: Yeah.

12:46Keir Simmons: Rubio, instead, is saying, well, what about Europe? Right? What is Europe going to do? How are they going to step up? Where does Europe stand on supporting Ukraine right now, continuing to support Ukraine right now?

12:56Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: Yeah. I mean, I think one of the things that we should note is what the Secretary of State just said about the danger. He was meeting with the Greek prime minister in the past few days.

13:09Keir Simmons: That escalation could wind up being a sabotage campaign in neighboring countries that are members of NATO. It could be the strikes that you're pointing to. It could be a number of other things that could happen that could quickly turn what is a war between two countries into a much broader and far more dangerous regional conflict.

13:27Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: That is certainly something that has been worrying the Europeans, actually, and has been a concern amongst those who follow these things closely. I think I'll put it this way, that President Putin, faced with not being able to win in Ukraine, will take the view that if he's going to lose, everyone has to lose, and will take steps in Europe that widen this in order to try to, again, to persuade the Europeans to back down and at the same time to try and achieve his long-term goal, which is to defeat NATO. And to your question about European support, there are a couple of things here. One is about the money and the questions that are being raised in Europe about the amount of money that Ukraine needs.

14:17Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: Ukraine now is saying it has a deficit of$27 billion. The war costs millions of dollars a day. And that's something the Europeans are asking questions about after agreeing a$90 billion loan. And then another piece in Europe, which I think is just worth touching on, is that the rise of these right-wing parties, the AFD in Germany, Le Pen's party in France, and they're openly saying, do we have to spend this money on Ukraine?

14:52Keir Simmons: Are you saying in a way though that Putin's like, look, if we at all feel as if we are losing ground, however you want to frame it, I'm going to look to expand this war. So if I'm hurting, you're all going to hurt. Is that like his mentality right now?

15:08Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: Well, I think it's been said that you've heard the Chinese talk about win-win, right? It's been said that Putin's policy is lose-lose. That's one way in which the West, particularly America, and particularly, for example, the envoy, Steve Wyckoff, and President Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who've been obviously talking to Putin and going to Russia and are still negotiating now. One thing they don't really understand, potentially, about Moscow, which is that the view of the Putin leadership in Moscow is, this is what's said, is that President Putin has something of a nihilistic view that if he can't win, then others should be defeated.

15:52Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: I don't think we necessarily need to talk about a tipping point the way that Secretary Rubio does in one sense, because we've actually seen the Russians using drones over European airspace. Just today, for example, completely separate, perhaps not connected, There's news of arrest of two Latvians at another UK airbase. The asymmetric clandestine war between Russia and Europe is already on, in my view. But what we are, what I think Rubio is warning of, is this potential that the Russians decide to take action to see if they can tip Europe into a more defeatist stance, if you like.

16:37Keir Simmons: So here's the thing, though. And you mentioned this. Ukraine is fighting back. They're hitting back.

16:41Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: Right.

16:42Keir Simmons: They have targeted Russian warehouses, launched a retaliatory strike on a Russian data center. But I think the question is, like, how long can they keep going? What do they have left? How much do they have left?

16:54Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: One of the things here about that question is that we are seeing a transformation in the field of battle, which is drones and, you know, remote fighting vehicles and all those things, which is completely changing assessments about how long countries can keep going for. And the Ukrainians have been on the front line of that. So it's not like you have to spend enormous amounts of money on Patriot missile defences, on F-35s, the way that America has been able to do. What those new kinds of weaponry are doing is enabling a new kind of war that changes all kinds of calculations, including the answer to that question.

17:41Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: And another piece of this is to say, we don't know how long the Ukrainians can keep going. What I will say, though, is that people will note that you don't really see reports so much anymore about territory, about land, in terms of gains in ground in Ukraine. And the reason for that is it's absolutely astound, mate. Keir Simmons, thank you. You bet.

18:04Keir Simmons: All right, coming up. A new twist in the story of the ex-EA officer who was arrested after law enforcement found gold bars in his home. Just when you thought this story could not get any stranger, it does, believe me. Stay with us. Also, while you're taking an ad break, why don't you go ahead, choose your favorite episode of Here's the Scoop, and then send it to a friend. We would really appreciate more follows and more listeners. I'll see you on the other side.

18:38Berkeley Lovelace Jr.: Brooks Brothers, quality tailoring that lasts a lifetime. The 1818 Collection, Italian crafted suiting for your important occasions. Explorer suit separates, crafted from lightweight wool built for travel and ease. Brooks Brothers, tailored for the moments that matter.

18:55Keir Simmons: It's the holiday season at House of Burl, which means that it's the perfect moment to review some key rules. Rule number five, more style means more celebration. Number four, buy gifts, but remember to treat yourself too. Number three, there is no dress code, but always leave them talking. Number two, show off different outfits. No party remains unattended. And rule number one, have it all without spending it all. Happy holidays from House of Burl. Burlington.

19:58Keir Simmons: And we are back with Here's the Scoop from NBC News. So you remember that CIA officer who was arrested for stealing money from the government, David Rush. FBI agents raided his house. They found hundreds of gold bars, dozens of luxury watches, and millions of dollars in cash. Earlier this week, Rush pled guilty to wire fraud. But in his plea document, he threw a curveball. So I want to bring in NBC News senior Homeland Security correspondent, Julie Ainsley, who's got more on this. Hi, Julia. Hi, Az. Okay, so it's been kind of a minute since all of this was breaking. So remind us, if you will, first of how this story went, who was David Rush, and why did he originally get in trouble?

20:43Keir Simmons: I remember it was Memorial Day weekend when we saw this really underreported story in local news that this man had been arrested and had been charged. And in the criminal complaint, it mentioned that he had$40 million in gold bars in his house. And it just mentioned that he was a government employee, but they didn't say of what agency. And that's when myself, Courtney Kuby, Gordon Lubold, our whole national security team here, Dan DeLuce, were all able to point together. This isn't just any government employee. This is a senior CIA official, which definitely gave the story this national attention.

21:19Keir Simmons: And we have been reporting this all over the summer, really just through our sources, because this story, this case is so closely held because of the level where this man, David Rush, was at the CIA. We have reported about the fact that there's also a inspector general's report into how he even got to this position at the CIA. We have reported about the fact that he started a fake program in order to funnel this money. We've also reported about his connections to some very senior people within the Trump administration who are still currently there. Although it's not clear, you know, perhaps he just duped them as well.

21:56Keir Simmons: They haven't been charged or found to have any wrongdoing. So what came out, though, just this week during this plea deal was more than we really were expecting. Because this case is so sensitive and there's a plea deal. So prosecutors really didn't need to give that much information in an open setting about what exactly he was pleading guilty to because he was pleading guilty only to the count of wire fraud. But in these documents, here's the key thing that we learned, that he, as part of this fake CIA program, not only got$40 million in gold bars that he said was for a program, which the CIA does legitimately use at times to pay people overseas who are helping U.S.

22:34Keir Simmons: interests. Yeah. But he also invested or bought luxury real estate in South Florida to the tune of one house that was worth$30 million. One single piece of property without a house even on it was worth$40 million. All in West Palm Beach. This is a very, probably one of the most affluent areas in the country, not far from Trump's house and club in Mar-a-Lago. And he had basically told people who were read in on this top secret program that they needed to make these purchases. is prosecutors lay out that he kept that group so close that not enough people were aware of the program because he said it was so highly classified, those involved couldn't talk about it.

23:14Keir Simmons: They don't call them co-conspirators. There's nothing in the court documents that makes it look like these people knew this program wasn't legitimate. But basically they lay out the story that this man rose to the top ranks of the CIA and was able to pull off this scheme where he stole nearly$200 million of taxpayer money. That's insane. And no one stopped him. He was at the CIA since 2010. And they alleged this activity began around this time last year until they stopped it and caught it in March of 2026. And we should note here that lawyers for Rush actually declined to comment on this. But with this revelation, Julia, what does this say about the CIA that this guy was able to do this for so long?

24:00Keir Simmons: And, I mean,$200 million? That is a lot of money. Well, it's raising serious questions about what's happening inside an agency. I mean, he worked under multiple administrations, hired in 2010, and we found out that he actually lied about his background. He did not go to college where he said he did. He was not a Navy pilot. And what he put on his resume helped get him credentials that led him to this high level in the CIA. But people in this position are regularly polygraphed. I mean, how he got to that position is still an open question, how that wasn't caught earlier. And so I think that's raising a lot of questions, and we're not the only ones asking those questions.

24:38Keir Simmons: We also understand that members of Congress have wanted to be read in on this. The White House has been upset about how this could have happened. And it's raising a lot of questions about what happens when money that has to be spent so covertly on top-secret programs that only a few people can know about it, do they have the right checks and balances once someone is at a position of power? Are they being routinely checked up on, their background reviewed, the things they're asking for? Are those things being scrutinized at the same level it would be if they were working in, say, the Department of Interior?

25:11Keir Simmons: Somewhere where things are not under the same covert classified setting as they would be. Most parts of our government have so many red tape to cut through that it's unbelievable that he was able to pull this off. How is the government responding? We did see statements put out from the Justice Department and from the CIA, from Attorney General Todd Blanchett and CIA Director John Ratcliffe saying that this person, David Rush, needs to be held to the highest responsibility under the law that he possibly can be. He needs to be held accountable for this and that people who lie on their background checks or to deceive the American people have no place in government.

25:52Keir Simmons: They had very strong statements when these allegations came out. But I will say for a long time as we've reported this story, we have not gotten comment from a lot of these agencies. Russia's lawyers have repeatedly denied comment, including to our faces when we were outside of court. It's just such a sensitive story. It's really hard to get a lot of people to talk about it. But we have thought it's really worth our time here at NBC News to follow every turn of this story. Because we think that American taxpayers need to know when something like this happens in their government. and who should be held accountable and what can be put in place to stop something like this from happening in the future.

26:28Keir Simmons: Not only is a story highly entertaining and creates a lot of conversation, it's really theft at an incredibly high level. Julie Ainsley, thank you. Thanks, Yas. All right, that is going to do it for us. Here's the scoop from NBC News. I'm Yasmin Basugin. We'll be back tomorrow with whatever the day may bring. And if you like what you heard, subscribe, we're going to get your podcasts. And you can also subscribe to our daily newsletter, The Inside Scoop. It's a deeper dive on the main stories of the day that comes out every weeknight straight to your inbox. You can sign up for The Inside Scoop as part of our paid subscription at NBCNews.com.

27:05Keir Simmons: We'll see you tomorrow.

27:34Keir Simmons: We'll be right back. plumbing to electrical, roof repair to deck upgrades. So leave it to the pros who will get your jobs done well. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at Angie.com.