Why NYC and L.A. Are Banning AI in Schools, Plus Ukrainians Are Forced Underground

0:00The fact that we're able to do this work, the fact that, you know, I can think about both motherhood and professional ambitions in the same sentence, the fact that we can think about and talk about our safety and security, our reproductive rights. She made it all a dinner table conversation. Hey, everybody, and welcome to Here's the Scoop from NBC News. I'm Stephanie Goss, in for Yasmin Vesugin. Today on the show, we remember Gloria Steinem, the feminist trailblazer who died on Wednesday at 92 years old. We'll take a look at her impact and her legacy. Plus, Ukrainians are living under what could be the most intense Russian bombardment since the war began and trying to maintain some semblance of a normal life.

0:41NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel went inside a maternity hospital in Ukraine where mothers are giving birth in bomb shelters. But first, the two largest school districts in the country have announced major restrictions on using artificial intelligence in the classroom. On Wednesday, New York City Mayor Zoran Mamdani laid out plans for a one-year ban on AI for students in kindergarten through eighth grade. The tech industry wants us to believe that AI in early education is not only inevitable, but that it is necessary. We do not see it that way. The same day, Los Angeles school district officials confirmed an AI moratorium which applies to students of all ages, including high schoolers.

1:26So what do these bans include and will they set the standard for other school districts across the country? For more on this, I want to bring in WNYC education reporter Jessica Gould. Hi, Jessica. Hi. So you have Mayor Mondani announcing this one-year ban on AI for students up through eighth grade. What are the specific limits? Sure. So it is a ban on AI through eighth grade, with exceptions for students with disabilities and students learning English who can still use assistive technology and translation. And then in high school, they're going to have some limited pilot programs with vetted software where students can play around with AI under the tutelage of teachers.

2:10But that's going to be a limited group of high schools that can be part of that. And then also, if you're a student who's learning robotics or coding, you may have access to AI, but it's going to be time limited. And they're also rolling out new AI literacy classes for high schoolers. But obviously, those high schoolers can just go home and it's a free-for-all on Claude, right? Well, this is a longstanding problem. And over the past year, I've been doing a lot of reporting about how teachers have had to overhaul their lesson plans and the way they give homework, whether they give homework. and take home tests and reports.

2:46And, you know, it's a big problem because apparently the software to check AI, and if you've answered questions with AI, it can be pretty good, but not great. It's not bulletproof. And so it's hard to prove if a student has used AI. So that's something that the city is still working on. It's just for a year. Is there a plan to have it go longer than that? Or is this a trial period? Why are they doing this? Yeah, they're going to be reassessing at the end of the year. And also, the city says that they're going to be pulling about 40 programs that have AI that have been available to students up until this point.

3:20But that's just what they know about. And they acknowledge that there might be programs out there that have AI that are common in schools, and they're going to be trying to figure out what those are and pull those back, too. And what about teachers? I mean, teachers rely on it for lesson plans and all of that. Does this affect them as well? Teachers will still be able to use AI for lesson planning, for some communications, organization. Teachers have much more access allowed under this policy than students who have these strict limits. But some teachers that I spoke to were saying that they had planned to use AI in the coming year, and now they're scrambling to change their plans in terms of how they teach their classes.

3:59A lot of teachers and a lot of parents, though, are thrilled that these restrictions are in place, some think they don't go far enough. What are they looking for? What do they want the rules to do? Well, some parents and activists on this want there to be no AI at all for students. They cite, you know, concerns about cognitive offloading, so basically getting AI to do your thinking for you, concerns about the impact on the environment, concerns about data privacy. So they want a full moratorium, and they wanted it for two years at least to come up with stronger guardrails. So that's what I'm hearing.

4:36I'm hearing some concerns about some of the exceptions and just whether this is going to be able to be enforced. You know, the city is saying that the AI, that the tech companies can turn off AI and that they'll be instructing them to do so in all the places that they need. But will that happen? We don't know. And then, you know, you look at LA and they announced an AI ban yesterday that goes all the way through high school. And some people aren't happy about that, saying it goes a bit too far because once kids get to high school, they should be learning how to use it and how to use it responsibly.

5:12I've heard that a lot. There are critics of this plan who say that the cat is out of the bag with AI, that the future is going to be about AI, and so students need to learn in school how to use AI responsibly. That's what schools are for, to teach you how to meet the moment and navigate the world that's evolving in front of you. Yeah. And these changes are happening quickly. And the change in attitudes, quite honestly, is happening very quickly, too. I mean, this backlash against AI is surging right now. We're seeing it play out certainly in politics as we get closer to the midterm elections, but it's really starting to grow.

5:49And I wonder, when you have such enormous school districts, the top two in the country, New York and L.A., taking these dramatic stands, does that sort of set a precedent that might start getting some momentum in other places and smaller school districts? I think so. I mean, I think we've been seeing more and more of these restrictions in recent years. Last year for us, the big story in New York City was the smartphone ban. So this comes on the heels of that. There's also a movement against ed tech in general and the kind of curricular tools that are on iPads, laptops, and computers and pulling back how much time is spent that way.

6:25And I think it's going to be the story of the year. You know, how far do we go and how this evolves? How is that smartphone ban going in New York City? Well, I've heard a lot of positives about it, to be honest. You know, we always look for the places where policies are breaking down. But in this case, I've heard that kids are socializing more. I did a story last year about how cafeterias are much louder than they were when phones were allowed because kids are actually talking to each other. They're playing board games. There's been a resurgence of old school technology like Polaroid cameras and Sony Walkman and just, you know, decks of cards.

7:07So I've heard that in general, both in terms of socialization and focus, it's better. And people are still breaking the rules. Sometimes they hand in burner phones, you know, when you have to zip it up, they put in their old phone and keep their new one with them. And there are all sorts of things like that. But, you know, on the whole, this has been seen as a positive step. I mean, decks of cards and face-to-face conversations, that sounds amazing. And also a little bit like 1985, which a lot of people might be applauding. Yeah. And books. I'm hearing a lot about people reading actual books more.

7:48So actual books. Oh, my God. It's amazing. Jessica Gould, thank you so much for joining us and talking about this important topic. I really appreciate it. Thank you. OK, we're going to take a quick break. When we're back, NBC News Forum correspondent Richard Engel is on the ground in Ukraine, bringing us daily life during wartime. That's next. And while you're listening to the ads, do us a favor. Hit the subscribe button. If you're already a subscriber, remember to rate and review the show. It helps more listeners find us.

8:40Play, and there's like a ton more in there. You should try it. If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. Try it now for two months free at youtube.com slash premium. Trial eligibility varies. Terms apply. Cancel anytime. That's a mouthful. Life is full of surprises. You're cruising along not a care in the world when out of the blue, life hits pause. Maybe it's a lost job or lapse in healthcare coverage. Well, United Healthcare is here with a variety of plans to keep things moving. Everything from healthcare plans that fit where you are in life to supplemental coverage like dental and vision.

9:16UnitedHealthcare, your plan for taking the surprise out of life's surprises.

9:23At Jared Jewelers, we know it's about more than fine jewelry. It's the moment they open the box. That smile they can't hide. Knowing you chose exactly right because the right gift can bring a lifetime of meaning, a promise, a milestone, a memory in the making. Make every moment unforgettable with 20 % off storewide. Exclusions apply. See Jared.com backslash radio for details. Jared, make the holiday last forever. Shop Jared Jewelers.

9:57And we're back with Here's the Scoop from NBC News. Ukrainians have been living under a full scale war with Russia for over four years. And right now they're experiencing what could be the most relentless campaign yet. Russian forces have intensified their ballistic missile attacks across the country. Meanwhile, Ukrainians are facing a desperate shortage of U.S. Patriot interceptors to shoot down those missiles. And there's no apparent progress towards a ceasefire. So as this quagmire continues, my colleague and friend, NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel went to Ukraine to see how people there have had to adjust to life under siege.

10:34Richard, thank you so much for joining me. You went to this maternity ward in Kharkiv. Tell me about what you saw there. I mean, young families are still trying to have babies amidst all of this, aren't they? It's astonishing. So I'm still in Kharkiv, which is in eastern Ukraine, very close to the Russian border. It's considered a frontline area. There are drone attacks in and around Kharkiv every single day. You hear the air raid sirens all the time. And despite it all, obviously, people are still living in the city and are trying to go on with their lives and have families. And we went to a medical facility.

11:17We went to a hospital. And whenever an air raid siren goes off, Steph, you can imagine. You've been in places where air raid sirens go off. If you're mobile, you run and you find hard shelter. But if you're in the middle of something where you can't move, like you're giving birth in an operating theater, where are you going to go? So in this case, they moved all of the operating theaters down into the bomb shelter, down below the hospital. While we were there, obviously they agreed to do this, we filmed a birth. It was a planned procedure. Marina is the mother's name. And she went in for a C-section.

11:59And we filmed from the surgery to the baby coming out. And then the doctors gave Marina this beautiful newborn baby boy. I just asked her how she's feeling and what's it like, you know, in these circumstances. And she said that it's terrible and frightening and scary to have a baby during wartime, but she's still delighted to be a mother. This family had been struggling to have a baby. They finally had the baby, but in this extraordinary circumstance underground, four and a half years into this war. And I think it was a little bit of a microcosm of the Ukrainian spirit, how people are living, what it's like to try and have something, a semblance of a normal life when there's not just the constant threat of Russian attacks, but there are constant Russian attacks.

12:51Right. So they've set up this facility so that even if the bombs are dropping, this very natural part of life can happen, this moment of birth. Bombs were dropping while this was happening. They were at that moment. The air raid sirens were going on outside. Remarkable. We have some sound, actually, from your interview with the father. I want to play some of it right now. What is it like, the fact that your wife just gave birth in an underground bunker, and you're here receiving your baby underground? From one side, it's ridiculous that the 21st century, we need to do it underground. From the other side, it's nice that we do have this chance to do it more or less safely.

13:30Now, that father is also a soldier. Is that right? So after this experience, he's got to go back out onto the battlefield? So he's a soldier. He works in air defense. So he'll go back to his job. He may not necessarily be right in one of the frontline bunkers, but there are really clear defined front lines in this conflict. You can be bombed in Kiev. Ukraine is facing right now a serious crisis of a shortage of Patriot missile interceptors. And Russia is exploiting that. Russia certainly knows that there aren't enough Patriots. So that's why Russia is firing at the moment with impunity big ballistic missiles at Kiev and they're getting through.

14:20I mean, I wonder when you're talking to these new parents, four and a half years in, they've got a baby. Are they hopeful at all that this child's life is not going to be defined, at least in its early years, by war? So I've had some pretty philosophical conversations with several pregnant women. And I asked that very question. I said, you're here. There was one woman, nine months pregnant, already passed due, ready for the baby to arrive at any moment. that she too was going to give birth down below in the bomb shelter. And I asked her, I said, are you worried about the world that you're bringing this baby into?

14:56When I was younger, like I'm, right now I'm 32. When I was younger, I was like thinking that, oh, I have a time, not now. We need to have more money, need to have more. And nowadays I think that maybe it's like last day, so the baby is like, we need to have like, Like, um,

15:19yes, yes, yes. Do people feel like this is going to end soon? And do they feel like the U.S. is going to be a part of a meaningful conclusion to this war, Richard? No and no. They don't feel that it's going to end soon. I was at a school earlier today in a bomb shelter. So this hospital where Marina had her baby had a bomb shelter. It always had a bomb shelter. Lots of emergency facilities like that in many countries will have underground areas that are safe. But I went today to a purpose-built school, which are not normally built underground, a windowless school that is the entire school is a bunker.

16:05And it was built as a school. And there are classrooms, and all over this bunker are, you know, pictures of things you would see in a school. Signage, cartoons, video game characters, the alphabet in multiple languages. It looked like a school full of kids in uniform talking to each other. If you didn't know you were in a bomb shelter, the kids looked all happy, fun-loving, cute little kids. but they're going to school in a bomb shelter. And this bomb shelter is brand new. So it's not that this is some old Soviet nuclear silo that was repurposed. This was just built and it was just opened this school year.

16:50And it cost a lot of money and it is oversubscribed. So that to me is an indication that no, Ukrainians are not thinking that this is going to be over anytime soon. And do they think the U.S. will be part of the solution? No, they've lost confidence in the U.S. since President Trump effectively cut Ukraine off and has foisted this conflict onto Europe. And Europe is helping. There are several European countries that are trying to step up. But the loss of the U.S. as a major partner was noticed here. And there's a lot of, I don't want to say resentment, because Ukrainians are in a weak position.

17:29So even if they have inconsistent friends, they appreciate their friends, but they don't have trust in President Trump or this administration. Thank you for bringing those stories to us, Richard Engel, and please stay safe. Great to join you, and thank you for having me on and discussing what is a really vitally important subject which is competing for attention these days. all right we're going to take a very quick break when we're back we're taking a look at the life and legacy of a feminist trailblazer the one the only Gloria Steinem that's next

18:06if you like YouTube you'll love YouTube premium it's destroying athlete creator and YouTube maxer YouTube premium enhances how I use YouTube with awesome features like offline downloads so I can download my favorite training videos before I hit the gym. So no Wi-Fi doesn't turn leg day into loading day. Plus, I get ad-free videos, background play, and so much more. YouTube Premium is like YouTube got some extra gains. Try YouTube Premium for two months free at youtube.com slash premium. Trial eligibility varies. Terms apply. Cancel anytime. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start.

18:40Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin? Or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today. I'm Hannah. I've lost 75 pounds in 20 months with GLP-1s, plus diet and exercise. On Rowe, I've gone from struggling to run a mile to running farther every day. You can access FDA-approved GLP-1s online. Get the support you need to reach your weight loss goals. Go to row.co slash weight to see if you qualify.

19:15I'm a paid Rho partner. 20 % average weight loss in one year in non-diabetics with obesity or overweight with a weight-related medical condition versus 3.1 % in placebo arm. Rx only. To stay informed about serious side effects, go to Rho.co slash safety.

19:31And we're back with Here's the Scoop from NBC News. Before we go today, we want to take a minute to remember Gloria Steinem, who died on Wednesday at 92 years old. A human being, a woman, a feminist, and an American in that order. Steinem was a journalist, a best-selling author, and an advocate for women's rights. She helped lead what is known as the second wave of feminism, fighting for equal pay and reproductive freedom and an end to discrimination on the basis of sex. Stand here not only for the Equal Rights Amendment, but in the names of all the women in this country who struggle with two jobs when men have won.

20:08To help us remember Steinem's legacy, I'm going to bring in Emily Ramshaw. She's the co-founder and CEO of The 19th, a nonprofit newsroom for reporting on gender, politics, policy, and power. Hi, Emily. Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. I want to start with your relationship with Gloria. You knew her. I did. I did. I had the opportunity to be with her quite a bunch. I mean, so if you know a little bit about The 19th, we are in many ways sort of modeled on her legacy. So her death is an emotional one for me because our stories are tied together. We launched the 19th in 2020, you know, in many ways standing on the shoulders of her work at Ms.

20:45So it is very heavy feelings on our end today. Let's talk about that impact. What did she do? Let's talk about the big things that she changed. I mean, she launched Ms. Magazine and that ended up being sort of the forum for a lot of this change. But let's take through some of the things that are memorable for you. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, So I think the single biggest thing is that like the cultural movement, you know, she took feminism from a movement that many Americans viewed as radical and she took it into the cultural mainstream. I mean, she was a journalist first and foremost. She was an organizer around so many issues around gender and reproductive rights.

21:23She was an extraordinarily effective communicator. So, you know, through Ms. Magazine, which kicked off in 1971, and through decades of advocacy, really, like, up until the moment she died, you know, she gave women language for publicly understanding the inequities they were experiencing privately. There is no woman in the country who we are not trying to reach. But it also wasn't just women, was it? I mean, she was fighting battles on a lot of different fronts. I mean, that was the amazing thing about her is that it was never just about women. And over the course of her career and her work as an organizer, she really sort of took second wave feminism and made it intersectional.

22:02She worked alongside, you know, Black feminists, LGBTQ women, labor organizers, and many others. And she allowed sort of all of them together to shape second wave feminism. You know, they often didn't receive the same recognition that she did, but she used her platform and her ambassadorship to really lift up those movements around her. She had very strong opinions and very strong positions on a lot of these issues, but she also developed those opinions, and they changed over the course of her life in a few places very notably. For example, in 1998, she wrote an op-ed defending President Bill Clinton over his sexual relationship with former White House intern Monica Lewinsky.

22:43She said at the time, Steinem, that women had sexual independence and agency, and Lewinsky had consented. But then the Me Too movement happens, and she kind of rethinks that, doesn't she? And how did that change occur, and why do you think it did? Yeah, I mean, I think one of the really interesting things about Gloria is that she remained part of the conversation so long, long enough that she could be challenged by later generations of feminists. And at times, as you said, you know, she really started to reconsider her own thinking. You know, the Clinton-Lewincey scandal is a really important example.

23:20As you said, she originally defended Bill Clinton in a way that really sort of minimized the power imbalance between a president of the United States and a young intern. And as you said, during the Me Too movement, she acknowledged that she probably would have taken a different approach if it had happened today. So I think, you know, again, one really important piece of Gloria Steinem's legacy is that she created a movement that ultimately became capable of even challenging Gloria Steinem. Yeah. And affected so many generations of women. I never had a chance to speak with Gloria Steinem, but I was walking through LaGuardia Airport and she was walking in the other direction and I just stopped, frozen.

24:02I didn't know what to say. I didn't know if I should wave, if I should cry, if I should hug her. I mean, she just impacted so many women. What would you say is her most lasting legacy? I mean, the lasting legacy is that she made everyone feel like it was okay to be a feminist. I mean, I think, you know, if you look at even the jobs, the careers that you and I have, the fact that we're able to do this work, the fact that, you know, I can think about both motherhood and professional ambitions in the same sentence, the fact that we can think about and talk about our safety and security, our reproductive rights.

24:38She made it all a dinner table conversation. And I think we really owe that legacy to her. And of course, as I said, you know, I really personally owe a legacy to her. You know, she, her legacy is the enormous, enormous distance that women travel during her lifetime. And, you know, also the unfinished work she leaves behind. Emily, thank you so much for joining me. Lovely chatting with you and giving us a chance to think about the great work that Gloria Steinem did. Thank you. Thank you so much. It took 100 years for us to become human beings and to vote. Not surprising that it will take a century to get equality.

25:42subscription at NBCnews.com.

25:52Real talent is defined by what people can do, not where they learn to do it. So by stopping at the education section of a resume, you might throw away the perfect hire. Skills First Hiring helps you see talent others miss, like more than 70 million stars, skilled through alternative routes. Let their story unfold and gain a competitive advantage because hiring managers who start with skills are 60 % more likely to find a successful hire. Hire skills first. Learn why at tearthepaperceiling.org. Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council.