Why Russia Released an American Prisoner; How a Viral Attack Is Rattling an Ohio Race

0:00My phone's blowing up. I'm hearing people say this is one of the most vicious, nastiest attacks they've seen in a long time. Hi, everybody, and welcome to Here's the Scoop from NBC News. I'm Yasmin Basugin. So today on the show, we're talking about this attack ad, right, that was put out by Vivek Ramaswamy, who's running for Ohio governor as a Republican. And it is featuring the estranged mother of his opponent, the Democratic candidate for governor, Amy Acton. And there's a lot of fallout from this incredibly controversial ad. So we're going to get into all of that. Also, there was an NBC investigation into how kids are actually using YouTube.

0:37If you're a parent, you know it is really tough to get your kids off of YouTube. It's addictive, honestly. But this investigation finds that thousands of videos are actually being viewed by children during school hours, oftentimes on school devices. So what are parents, what are schools, and what does Google have to say about it?

1:04Up first, though, so Russia has freed American prisoner Stephen Hubbard. Hubbard is a 74-year-old retired teacher who was imprisoned in Russia back in 2022 on charges that he was fighting as a mercenary in Ukraine, charges that he's denied. The Trump administration is praising Russian President Vladimir Putin for Hubbard's release, including U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, who's currently in Russia for peace talks with Putin. On True Social, President Trump has said Russia, quote, was not required to give anything in return. But some are raising questions about how this ties into recent negotiations over Russian sanctions and how all of it fits in with the Ukraine peace deal.

1:44So joining me now is John Erbst. He's the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine in the George W. Bush administration and senior director of the Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center. Ambassador Herbst, welcome. Thank you for having me. Okay, let's talk about what's taken place over the last 24 hours or so because we have learned that the president directly asked President Putin in a phone call last week to release Stephen Hubbard, who had been sentenced to nearly seven years in prison. U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff thanked Russian President Putin today and then called him a humanitarian. I want to hear this.

2:20You talk so much about my president, President Trump, being a humanitarian. You are a humanitarian also, sir. Ambassador Herbst, what do you think of the notion of calling Russian President Vladimir Putin a humanitarian? I was a diplomat for 31 years. Diplomats sometimes have reasons to say things which aren't on their face or preposterous. And that's what we see here. I mean, this American was just released. Witkoff wanted to thank him, so he went over the top. I would not fault him for that. But I would say that the characterization of what happened by the news media is not completely accurate.

3:00It's presented as Putin just released this American. Well, no. two weeks ago or so, a notorious Russian war blogger, a guy named Mikhail Zvinchuk, was arrested in Montenegro. Now, we have him on our list of bad guys, but the Trump administration went out of its way to make sure that that guy was released and we go back to Russia. So this is a kind of exchange. Russia's got back a bad guy who we should have taken into custody, and we got back an American who was innocent. That's the pattern. That's not peculiar to Trump. That's what Whitcoff did when he went to Moscow in January of 25. That's what Biden did when he got a big prisoner release involving us and Russia.

3:40But it was not a freebie. It was not a gift to the United States. What else do you see Russia getting out of this move? Well, this is all part of, you know, the Trump turn in the wrong direction, the Trump administration turn in the wrong direction. We've seen over the past 10 days where the administration is blaming Zelensky for the war, which is completely Putin's fault. They blame Zelensky, even though Zelensky's accepted half a dozen Trump proposals for peace, which Putin has rejected. But, you know, President Trump went through a period like this 18 or so months ago. We're seeing it again now.

4:12Although I think because of serious pushback in the U.S., including from Republicans and Congress, the administration is retreating. So it seems like the United States has actually been softening on Russia as of late. The president signed this diesel deal with Russia earlier this month. the administration waived new sanctions on Moscow. There's new reporting out from the Wall Street Journal that SpaceX founder Elon Musk ordered the slowdown of the military-grade version of Starlink that impaired the Ukrainian military. Musk himself posted on X hours after the slowdown became public, quote, any limits on speed or usage are decided by the U.S.

4:49military and ultimately the president of the United States. How do you see the United States dealing with Russia as of late? Do you see this as a kind of taking their foot off the pedal a little bit? There's no question that recent steps taken by the administration, going back to the original diesel deal, right, which is like 10 days ago or so, are gestures to the Kremlin. Easing sanctions, gesture to the Kremlin. The most disturbing gesture to the Kremlin was the reduction of our intel through the Starlink and StarShield systems. You know, we don't know who ultimately was responsible for this, but I'll tell you the following.

5:30If in fact Musk was given that ability by the administration, that's a serious derogation of duty because a private citizen should not have a decisive say on military support we provide to a friendly country. So whether it was Trump or Musk, the administration was doing something which was not serving American interests. I want to talk about Ukraine because the U.S. held talks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky this week in Norway. And a U.S. official told NBC News that Ukraine kind of brought new ideas and proposals and there was quote-unquote meaningful progress. The U.S. has said once again it is in fact sharing intelligence with Ukraine.

6:13But if you're Volodymyr Zelensky and you've taken all that you and I just discussed, what do you make of it? What should Zelensky make of this moment? Look, there are serious doubts in the Ukrainian government and among the Ukrainian people about the reliability of the United States as a result of the inconsistencies in Trump's policy over the past, during his second term. He's done some good things, but he's done also some things that are not so good. There are also reservations about America's reliability amongst our NATO allies, our allies in the Pacific, because of the way the administration has responded to numerous Russian provocations against NATO countries.

6:57Drones landing in Poland or in Romania, the attack on ships in Ukrainian territorial – Romanian territorial waters just a few days ago, and no response from Washington. So these things exist, but Zelensky in particular, since he's under this massive attack by Russia, a truly savage attack, still needs the United States help. So he's doing things to maintain the relationship, even as he refuses to do things that will endanger Ukraine's security, things that are being asked by the administration, like stopping his very effective attacks on Russian oil refineries and oil installations and gas installations.

7:36What do you make of the war? Does it end? You know, I've said since 2014 and again since 2022, as long as Western support for Ukraine is substantial, Ukraine will not lose this war because the Ukrainian people know if Russia wins this war, they will not be able to live as Ukrainians in Ukraine. That we see in Russian-occupied Ukraine right now. And Putin still retains the desire to conquer a great deal more territory. And his way of achieving it, since his military cannot do it at the present time, is to persuade the West to reduce its assistance to Ukraine. And he sees Trump as sympathetic to that point of view.

8:14And so he's been working very hard to persuade Trump to do that. It's in our interest that Ukraine defeat Putin and Ukraine. And giving military and economic aid is in our interest. But Trump cut that off. And I think that was a mistake. Things we've seen over the past several days, especially the cutoff intelligence, was a true gift to Putin, which makes it much harder for Ukraine to fight this war. Now, because of substantial criticism in the United States, including from Republicans, it looks like the Trump administration is in a retreat from that truly devastating and awful policy. But we'll see if that continues, that retreat.

8:53Ambassador Herbst, thank you for your time, sir. Thank you. All right. Up next, we're going to head to Ohio where a controversial attack ad is shaking up the governor's race. But while you're waiting, make sure to rate and review the podcast. Also, if you leave a review, maybe I'll read it on the show. All right. I'll see you on the other side.

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10:52And we're back with Here's the Scoop from NBC News. So we're going to head now to Ohio, where a new attack ad is raising the temperature in a tight race for governor. Republican candidate Vivek Ramaswamy has now confirmed that his campaign is responsible for an ad against his opponent, Democratic candidate Amy Acton. And it features her own mom. In the ad, Acton's mom calls her a liar. But here's the thing. Acton says she's been estranged from her mom for more than 40 years. Acton's stepfather was charged with sexually abusing her when she was a kid. He pled not guilty to that charge. That's according to police and court documents that were shared with NBC News, but that we have not obtained or verified independently.

11:34Acton and her brother were removed from her home. Her estranged mother remained married to the stepfather until his death. Now, Acton's come out with a response ad featuring her brother. So I want to bring in NBC News senior national politics reporter Henry Gomez, who's based in Cleveland, for more on how this has shaken up an already hostile race. Hi, Henry. Hey, how are you? I'm good. Okay. Tell me about this ad and the response that it's getting inside Ohio. It's one of the most extraordinary ads I've seen in Ohio covering politics here for the last 15 years. You know, when it landed Monday night, Ohio blogger was the first person to grab hold of this video.

12:18No one knew the origins of it. So it was just out there. It's a minute-long video that looks like a professionally produced political ad that's supposed to run on TV. And it has the estranged mother of Amy Akin speaking to the camera, calling her a liar, as you mentioned. And so just immediately, like among sources I've worked with for years, talked to for years, it immediately caused a stir. You know, my phone's blowing up. I'm hearing people say this is one of the most vicious, nastiest attacks they've seen in a long time. But no one knows who's responsible for it. So then we get to Tuesday.

12:50And for most of the day Tuesday, we have no idea. It's getting all this traction on social media. Mainstream media is starting to pick it up because the Acton campaign responded to it, saying that it was a vicious attack, blaming Vivek Ramaswamy's campaign for producing it. The Ramaswamy campaign puts out a statement that doesn't confirm or deny that it came from them, but basically saying that these are questions that deserve to be raised and people deserve to know who Amy Acton really is. So it was just like a really just a day that I can't quite remember in Ohio politics for some time. It ends, finally, with Ramaswamy himself and then his campaign operatives saying that, yes, it was them, after all, that produced this ad.

13:32And not only that, but they're putting it on television backed by a$4 million ad buy. A lot of the reaction to this was negative. You know, there were some people on the far right that said, you know, we're cheering this sort of attack on. But even, you know, fairly conservative right-wing Republicans were expressing on social media how bothered they were by this. So there was a lot of backlash that occurred, and then the Ramaswamy campaign decides to double down and say, yep,$4 million going on TV. When you talk about the response from Acton's campaign that involves her brother, what does that response look like?

14:11What does that ad look like? The brother is talking about how, you know, well, I think to step back, the broader look here that the campaign is putting on this is the Ramaswami campaign has chosen to platform their estranged mother, who is the person who married this man who was in their home, who they've accused of abuse and who Amy Acton has said raped her when she was a young child under the age of 13. So their point is whether or not those specific details were in the ad, the Ramaswamy campaign is asking you to trust this woman that they platformed who they have not had a relationship with in nearly 50 years and who has been involved in these very serious accusations.

14:52The brother's video that has since been turned into an ad is him talking about basically backing up Acton's story, backing up the fact that they had spent time living in a tent, which is something that their mother does dispute in that ad. But also talking about the abuse that they suffered and saying that Amy Acton protected him from receiving more of the abuse, that she bore the brunt of it, essentially. And it really is, you know, it's basically putting their family history out there in a way that they probably were hoping they didn't have to do, but ended up doing in response to this ad. What about the impact on the race here?

15:26Because it hasn't started airing on TV. It is circulating online now. But could this ad hurt Amy Acton? Could it hurt Ramaswamy? How do you see that playing out? Well, the thing I've been hearing most from sources, people following this closely in Ohio, is a lot rides on how the acting campaign responds to this. And they do have their initial response ad featuring the brother. It'll be interesting to see if they go further than that. Because, you know, if you just watch the ad featuring the mother, it does not get into those details and those nuances that I've just described to you. But as people learn, here's what the history really is in this family.

16:02You know, that's when it could really backfire. There's also, you know, it's unusual to see a mother on camera saying these things about somebody that she gave birth to. And that's going to be disorienting for a lot of voters, I would think. Yeah. We're just two weeks out from Election Day. And obviously, in having this conversation, things are getting incredibly personal. They're getting dirty. Is Ohio an outlier? or is this kind of what we're seeing across the board because the stakes are so high when it comes to control of Congress? I mean, we've certainly seen some, you know, nasty, unconventional attacks this year.

16:42I mean, that's not to say, like, all the proliferation of AI that we're seeing in ads and not knowing what's real or what's fake. There was a time where people were wondering if this particular ad featuring the mother was an AI fake. But, you know, look, I mean, we just saw this in Texas with Tallarico and the rumors circulating that ended up being completely unsubstantiated about where he was when his campaign said he was off the trail with the flu. I mean, there's just, you know, we're seeing campaigns push the boundaries more and more. We're seeing, you know, as reporters, the need to be more vigilant and tracking these things and running these things down, running the traps on anything you hear that doesn't sound like it's credible.

17:22And there's just so much more noise out there. It's become harder to find the signal. But, you know, this is unique in the execution of the strategy here, but it does seem to fit into a pattern of campaigns being more willing, you know, to push the boundaries and do things that you wouldn't have seen in a campaign, you know, 10, 15 years ago, even five years ago. Henry Gomez, thank you. Of course, thank you. All right, we're going to take a very quick break. And when we are back, screen time in schools has gotten out of control for some students. And NBC News deep dive on YouTube in the classroom.

18:02That's next.

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18:46Right. Okay, we can't afford that. You know what? Forget the music budget. We're going to stick with whatever's in the public domain. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for a 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. Still waiting in line? Again? That's time you'll never get back. Save time and money with Stamps.com. Over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with Stamps.com.

19:18Join them to save up to 90 % off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply.

19:40And we're back with Here's the Scoop from NBC News. So we all know how easy it is to get sucked down a YouTube rabbit hole. But a new analysis from NBC News shows that YouTube is becoming a distraction for kids while they're actually in school. Eleven parents from across the country, they shared their kids' viewing histories with NBC. And a dive into the data revealed that 95 % of the videos that these students are watching during school hours were not actually educational. And five of the students viewed over 1 ,000 videos during the last academic year, again, while they were in school. So what can schools actually do to get this under control?

20:18And are there changes that YouTube should be making? For this, I want to bring in NBC News national reporter Tyler Kincaid to talk about his investigation. Hi, Tyler. Hey. So I want to start by going kind of behind the scenes with this reporting. Tyler, if we can talk about how you got in touch with these parents, these students, why they were willing to talk. Like, talk with your process here. Yeah, so throughout the year, I've been reporting pretty intensely on concerns that parents have around screen time and technology in the classroom. So through that process, early on in the year, I came across a few parents who said that they had actually pulled their kids' YouTube history and looked at it and told me about, you know, hundreds or even thousands of videos that they had watched.

21:06And I thought that that was fascinating that they were becoming amateur forensic analysis, essentially, to figure out what was going on. So we talked to some other parents around the country who had already spoken out about concerns with screen time, specifically YouTube, school board meetings and other parent groups, asked them if they'd be willing to do this. And, yeah, we ended up with a group of 11. You actually spoke to a mom in Colorado named Leah Leonard. Her son viewed more than 5 ,700 YouTube videos in middle school last year. It's just not something that ever occurred to me that in school there would even be the option for my child to go take a device and hide out somewhere private watching YouTube shorts while other kids are outside playing football.

22:03And by the way, they're not just like hiding in school sometimes. They're doing it in the middle of class too, right? How did Leia get wind of the fact that this is what was happening with her kiddo? Yeah, so in her case, it had always been a problem with her kid in the school Chromebook, starting when it first came home in elementary school. By the time he gets to middle school, she's still concerned with his sort of behavior around it and how possessive he gets of the Chromebook. She checks this monitoring software that they have and see that he's watching quite a bit of YouTube, but she can't see actually what he's watching.

22:45So she finds another way through a parent group to pull the YouTube history herself directly from YouTube and discovers this high volume. And that was just astonishing to her because it's not again, it's a lot of stuff that she would ask him like, so you're watching this stuff, right? And it's like a lot of Family Guy clips, Simpsons clips. I mean, some of it might be R-rated. In class. Yeah, in class. There's an anecdote in the story we mentioned. Even in gym class, sometimes he would have access to his Chromebook and watch some things. So Boulder Valley School officials described Leonard's son, Leah Leonard's son, as an exceptional situation and said they're working with the family to find a solution this year.

23:28But is he an exceptional situation? Because it seems to me with your reporting, like, yes, maybe the volume of videos that her son watched seems more exceptional than others. But nonetheless, it's happening across the board, it seems, right? Yeah. And I mean, Boulder Valley School District, it's exceptional for them. They're not dealing with, you know, hundreds of Lea Leonard type situations. And it actually prompted them to put in some new changes to their firewalls and they're using some third party software to block YouTube shorts because her son was watching quite a bit of YouTube shorts. There are, you know, I think we looked at some national data from, again, those monitoring companies like Securely had a report looking at 600 ,000 students across hundreds of school districts.

24:19The vast majority of students are only spending a few minutes a day on YouTube, but then like 10 % spent more than 26 minutes. And then you get down to like 1%, according to the Securely report, where they're watching hours of YouTube a day. And that's what we then took to experts and said, should we be concerned of that? Because some people could look at it and say, it's only 1%. You're always going to have 1 % of students kind of goofing off or doing something. And they're like, well, no, I mean, if you extrapolate that, that's potentially hundreds of thousands of students who are paying little attention to the teacher and much more attention to whatever's on YouTube.

24:55And that's not what they're supposed to be in school looking at. you actually talked to a high school senior in Atlanta, Georgia, Adi, who said it's actually on Google. I want to hear what Adi had to say. I feel like it's Google's responsibility because when you're watching an educational video, it's like they're trying to just keep you engaged within their website instead of like giving you relevant topics to what you're watching. And the school filtering systems won't be able to block out everything. Like things can slip through. So how is Google responding to that? I mean, their position is that they think they've given schools a lot of controls, especially if they are, again, on that Google Workspace for Education, which is just a name for the software suite that a lot of schools use.

25:43There's competitors, too, who license some tools from Google, like this educational player that allows teachers to share a YouTube link without ads or links to other videos. But ultimately, school districts are not blocking it on the Wi-Fi because they want to use it for educational purposes. And so then there's a lot of things they can't control once the students get to YouTube.com in the browser. And that's the algorithm, the recommendations. Those things don't go off. I also think, you know, Adi, his history wasn't necessarily lengthy and showing something that, you know, would send alarm bells ringing, but he was still concerned about it.

26:23And I thought that was interesting, too, when we found some high school students who we quote in the story saying that they found YouTube highly distracting, even though their history didn't show anything like Lea Leonard's son with thousands of videos in a single school year. Tyler Kincaid, great piece of reporting. Thank you. Thank you. All right. That is going to do it for us. Here's The Scoop from NBC News. I'm Yasmin Basugin. We'll be back tomorrow with whatever the day may bring. And if you like what you heard, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also subscribe to our daily newsletter, The Inside Scoop.

26:57It's a deeper dive on the main stories of the day that comes out every weeknight straight to your inbox. You can sign up for The Inside Scoop as part of our paid subscription at NBCNews.com. We'll see you tomorrow.

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