Why Do We Celebrate Women On The Way Up, Then Tear Them Down?: Patricia Bright, Sam Faiers & Isobel Lorna | Ladies Who Launch

0:00I was really reserved when it comes to sharing good news and things that I've worked my butt off for because I'm worried about the reception, which is wild when you think about it. You're allowed to be successful and still allowed to be relatable. It's OK. People love when someone's an underdog, but when the underdog makes it, it's like a reflection of them not seeing themselves being successful. If girls knew how much money they could make, they would do it. If we don't say, how are they going to know? For our 100th episode, we're asking a big question. Why do we celebrate women on the way up and criticise them once they actually succeed?

0:37Well, joining me today are Patricia Bright, Sam Fares and Isabel Lorna. And we are talking ambition, money, backlash and why successful women are still expected to stay relatable.

0:57100 episodes I can't believe it This is also It's a 100 episode But our first ever round table So I'm very very excited I feel like it's like A panel in our Cozy little studio Congratulations 100 I know That's a big number Over 100 women But 100 episodes Which is crazy So I'm so pleased that you guys have here and that you've taken the time because we've got a lot of talking today we've already done a lot we've got a lot of start started yet we've been speaking about supplements everything else in between um but there's kind of one thing that i want to focus on today we discuss it a lot we've got like an epic girls group chat this podcast and i'm like this conversation needs to come out of our group chat and to everybody because we discuss a lot about But women get into a certain level and I suppose when your success becomes a bit more visible, it can really start being divisive or it can really divide opinion.

1:54And sadly, the bit that bothers me the most is a lot of time it's women that question it. And I'm like, girls, it's not what we're doing here. So we've got lots to unpack. OK, I can see Patricia's already like, I'm ready. I'm like, get me in, girls. What's interesting is all three of you girls have built completely different careers, but you've got a lot in common, I suppose, from being in the public eye, whether it comes to social media or TV and how that's transpired over the years. Patricia, more than 15 years being one of the UK's OG, OG girly queens. It makes me feel old, but I'm still young.

2:31I know, when people talk numbers, you're like, please don't. Please don't. I just started. Yeah, that's it. You look like you do, girl. Thanks, Patrick. but coming from the sort of influencer space to entrepreneur investor you've been around so you've got I know that you can handle opinion and I know that you've probably had a lot of opinions thrown your way Sam same when it comes to you from reality television to founding a wellness brand that's generated over more more than 30 million pounds in revenue thank you John thank you John we're keeping that in more than 50 million pounds in revenue thank you and and then isabel i suppose we first discovered you when you were building your corporate career and now of course you've launched your own luxury brand in front of an audience of over two million which is just incredible so what i know when it comes to all of us that of course people root for us because we've built our audiences in our different lanes to do so and support but on the flip side of that I think when the success starts to become really visible we can also feel that other side of it too which which also really interests me Isabel I want to start with you because the conversation we're having you've literally just experienced sort of in real time of where we are with Agenda so we should all say congratulations first thank you what a large beautiful product what a large beautiful product I mean incredible you got everyone's attention but interestingly I think the way that you got everyone's attention arguably I suppose one of the biggest moments of your career to date immediately became a debate over how you'd structure the business particularly the price point so like how was that for you because everyone discovering the brand and it was instantly a little bit of a debate online yeah so it's really interesting because pre the launch I'd spoken to a lot of people about the product and I never once thought or mentioned the price being too high.

4:31And I think that comes from the fact that I know how the pricing model works, right? So it was priced based on the material, which is real leather. And I chose the finest real leather. Did we expect anything less? Exactly. Yeah, let's carry on. But I'm like, of course you chose the finest leather, right? And it was only on the launch day that it got to about 3am. And I started seeing these videos about the price and I was like, my God, people are unhappy about the price. But I hadn't realized because all I was looking at was the sales going up. Yes, of course. I wasn't focused on, I hadn't even been on TikTok or Instagram.

5:09I was just doing back end stuff. So when people started talking about the price, I was confused because I was like, but I've made this and priced it accordingly to profit margins that allow us to go into retail. But that's so confusing as a consumer. like why is there a planner in wh smith for eight pounds but isabel is selling one for 300 pounds it's not actually 300 pounds it starts at 139 but on the landing page of the website it said 300 for the full set right so it was just that headline of like 300 pounds for a planner but then when you break it down it's not a planner it's a leather agenda and it starts at 139 not 300 but people use that as a headline to get clickbait on their videos yeah um but because i'd seen the whole process i understood why it cost that much so i had never even considered or doubted it did it sort of take away from the launch itself for you personally for you as a founder because obviously it's such an exciting time yeah did you actually enjoy the launch i found it very stressful like i coped really well with stress but it was the day after that i was like oh my God, am I going to get cancelled over a piece of leather?

6:19Like, this is crazy to me. Like, of all the things I could have been cancelled for. And I don't think anyone could be cancelled truly. But I started feeling like, am I getting cancelled over a pleather? It's a different kind of stress, isn't it? It's a different kind of stress, particularly when you do what you, well, what all of us do, I suppose, essentially public facing, right? So it's kind of having, I always think if you were, the girls that I know that kind of give less of a shit about what they say or what they do or don't it never weighs on them personally it's almost happened in reverse like they've started a sort of public facing career having already earned millions already worth a fortune and they kind of think fuck like i'm just saying my opinion whatever and i think you become a bit more fearless when it's happened the other way around whereas if you've grafted and built this following and cultivated this audience that you're always scared to lose no matter if you're like okay we're just cobbling over price here like let's sort of get back to reality a little bit it's a different kind of stress because it's scary yeah and it was only that 24 hours and i actually got advised to not post anything about anything so they were like just leave it a day and don't say anything and i was like that's that's the hardest thing to do good advice yeah the best advice but i didn't take it oh okay go on so all day i had this post written out and the few people it was like the shopify dashboard basically me saying it's a luxury product it's not supposed to be an impulse buy and if you don't like the price don't buy that's literally basically what i said in the explanation and that this product has now generated nearly half a million pounds of revenue in our first day which is like life-changing figure for an independent founded brand and i was like i'm really proud of this and you guys are shitting all over me and everyone was like isabel whatever you do don't post that and i had a wine with lorna we were in late coma and she was like is about keep looking at it just post it and i just went ding and immediately when i could see the positive comments coming and i felt like i'd re yeah like i said my piece and that's the only time i ever spoke really the narrative for me really flipped like watching it in real time to see you know and also it's a relative thing and it's kind of one of those things if you if i can't this this happens across the board right primark make bags and soda hermes yeah and we're gonna get a bag wherever we want to get a bag right and i think there's kind of a place for everything and there's a place for everything to exist but it was just shocking to me that it become such debate but then what was very interesting is i could instantly see the kind of the support yeah that was like hang on a minute she's built this career we've followed it she's done this thing of course we expect you know we're talking about Porsches on one hand yeah we you know we of course we expected this level of luxury yeah this is great she's smashing it and I think that was the problem is that people know me for the catchphrase save the pennies but there is Porsche on the end of the sentence and I've never told anyone not to spend your money I just say don't waste it on shit you don't that's not worth it so if that's not worth it to you don't buy it yeah if you don't write stuff down don't buy it it's not for you if you prefer writing on your notes out don't buy it yeah it's all relative if you if you're happy with a normal paper notebook have that so it's like if you don't like it don't like what i um found interesting it's so nice that we're together because patricia this really it felt to me on the outside this really sort of struck a bit of a nerve with you because patricia did a video which i that was girlhood yeah yeah because i because i am an og I've seen this happen over and over again whenever someone does anything and they're successful they can't stand it or people really struggle with it and I actually watched a video the other day it was about the underdog people love when someone's an underdog but when the underdog makes it it's like a reflection of them not seeing themselves um being successful and so when you've had a massive launch and people are complaining about the price and when people are complaining about the price i'm just like what's your problem don't buy it if you don't want to buy it right it's quite a simple theory yeah it's not by force like she did she never shoved it down your it's now not the law so i did come and do a video about it because i was like i've seen this before it's really not that serious and well done to her because i love seeing other women win and when you say you've seen it before is anything ever landed on your door in this way oh yeah um many many a times not necessarily based on something that I've launched but I will say I've seen backlash I've seen complaints I've seen the you're doing too much you're too big oh you now think you're better than everyone I've seen those kind of comments happen to myself and to others and it's like a cycle but I do genuinely feel like things are changing because when you're actually confident and you speak up people don't really know what to do they think they can back you into a corner and the fact that you weren't backed into a corner that's why the narrative changed because other people were able to come out and support you as well and it's empowering like you say there was a lot of women i saw i saw an american woman making i know exactly that was yeah the lady in the car yeah so she was for i was like she's fabulous and i know that video got like nearly a million likes yeah yeah i think she was so quick on the she was really quick to react to it and she was so angry so poignant yeah yeah yeah yeah i like i was like god this is really really traveled but this is also the american mindset as well so they're correct they love that entrepreneurship a boss babe a boss woman and also in the uk sometimes we've got to be a bit more coy especially if you're a woman who is success gen z are really like more confident with their successes yeah this they're showing it more and i think it's so important and maybe that is online because we just we get access to instant information from across the seas that we're actually just changing our approach a bit Sam at what point did you first realize I suppose that sometimes people get a bit more comfortable watching women work to a certain point but when I wonder if this has happened to you because you're sort of the landscape as you has really have really changed from you know working to something and maybe not sort of sharing what you're working on as much to the way that you do now and like you're empowering women you're doing a lot you know with your female founder stuff you're doing a lot for that but did you ever sort of reach a point where you're like okay people are more comfortable watching women work towards success rather than actually watching her enjoy it i think there's been such a shift similar to what you what you just said over the last kind of five six years and for me as well right so i come from reality tv so there's a huge stigma around someone coming out of reality tv and bringing the business to the market um and for me for a long time i think people thought that i was um like promoting revive and i was like um which i love by the way i just was endorsing yeah that i was the founder um because because how dare you because you must just be promoting something you don't know anything about yeah and also like i think the skincare industry supplement industry also can be a little bit snobbish so i do think that there was this element of it and i was like right i'm going to remove myself completely from it we'll use amanda as the face you know we'll do this without that was a conscious decision yes wow yeah so we was like look when we first launched the business we didn't have a marketing spend so i was the one promoting it on my platform but on our website on our shoots on our instagram i wasn't part of it so we just tried to build this brand so it was standalone and there is a there is like good there's a good point of doing that as well yeah i basically just kind of like sort of not sat in the shadows but just want to remove yourself a bit yeah exactly and i think like it's got to the point now actually it's so much like cinemas what's happened to you like when you start speaking out and you've got a voice and you know you speak about the the ups and the downs of bringing a business to the market and stuff like that people really like respect you they really enjoy your journey more so than just shine showing all the shiny parts of bringing a business to the market and all the ups and I feel like it's tough because people can really support you when you're sort of like climbing the ladder you're getting there it's great and then when you're actually there sometimes there is a shift in people's response to how successful that you're being but you know I've recently really told myself like to kind of ignore that stigma and just be really proud of what I've actually built um you know it's you know John and I invested all of our own money into this company so we had a lot of risks bringing this company to the market um and actually i'm really proud of what we've done and i feel like sometimes if we're proud and confident and talking absolutely yeah we can be like yeah quite like do you know what it's so interesting because like we launched a few weeks ago with eula and i've never i've always been very british with my approach as in like not wanting to share milestones on the way like i host this podcast and i loved his stories and this was a real self-indulgent project where i'm like i love to pick another woman's brains on how they've brought something to life and we had such a like we couldn't have like created a better launch if we tried as in we wasn't expecting the reaction the sales in particular and I mean now it's a bit of a logical nightmare because there's stock now on over on air and not on sea which you know it's all a bit of a whirlwind but the best possible one and I thought do you know what I never I don't know it's because I've I sort of was born for you know for want of a better phrase in the public eye before I had social yeah I've always never wanted to come across as unrelatable and when I so I've sort of shied away from talking about things that I'm really proud of probably in a similar vein to you and I did this video and I was like right we're actually the number we're actually beating you know we've overtaken L 'Oreal and Garnier and this in Tesco and on launch and it's been the biggest skincare launch they've had and or beauty launch and it's we're all so excited I'm like why am I telling people this so I made this video and I sat on it and I was like and I filmed it and I and it's all like in bits because I didn't just sit and do it once and the team were like you should tell people this isn't this is what you do this for like it's inspiring but I was really reserved when it comes to sharing good news and things that I've worked my butt off for because I'm worried about the reception which is fucking wild when you think about it yeah because I think you're you're allowed to be successful and still allowed to be relatable yeah it's okay like we still have the same problems as everybody else exactly yeah we're still you know managing the kids diaries during the school runs but you're still allowed to be successful and I think that's where the shift is changing I think especially for women in business or women wanting to dip their toe into business and I think there's such an amazing support system network happening right now and just like you speaking up like they advised you not to do that you did and then look at the influx of support that you got yeah so you know especially with the numbers i think if girls knew how much money they could make yeah they would do it if we don't say how are they gonna know so even when i did that post we were talking about that i you know was kind of told not to post the second photo was at the shopify dashboard and even my mum was like, are you going to put that online?

17:33And I was like, fuck yeah. Yeah, I am. Because it shows how hard you've worked and what you've achieved. And there could be a 19-year-old girl sat there thinking, I want to do that one day. And she did it, so I can do it. And I think what's great now is that as much as we share those wins, that we share the other side in equal measure. Because of course, you can be having the best week of your life and then the next week's shit can hit the fan. We know that it's not linear. So I think it's important that we sort of take stock and go, That was an amazing week. But also this week, bloody hell, this has happened.

18:04Amy Smell does that incredibly well. And she's always been really open and transparent. And you're part of that journey. And probably, you know, a lot of it by mistake. But she's been so open and vulnerable that I think seeing the sort of light and shade is also what's really important. Do you think, Isabel, because kind of you've always been really open about your love for luxury and, you know, but I see Melissa's wardrobe in the same way where I'm like, I know that equally she's going to be in B &M's getting herself a bargain, but she's also getting the latest Birkin if she can. And I kind of really enjoy that with someone because I trust what you say then.

18:37So if you're popping to Primark, I'm going to get the jumper you've said because I know how much you also love the other stuff. Right. Do you think that there's been a difference between people watching you enjoy that kind of aspirational way of living and liking that aspirational content, but then there's a sort of switch that flips when they know that you can really do that aspirational stuff because you're earning aspirational money I think it's difficult and a good example of this conversation is we were just talking about Amy when I went to Paris with Amy we would never normally do videos showing what we're but well I do Amy doesn't but we'd never normally go to the extent of like we're going shopping and show us like drinking champagne and why I sound like buying all this stuff.

19:22But what happened on that trip is that we basically got overexcited and we kept drinking champagne. We were pissed. Yeah, basically we were pissed the entire time. And I kept thinking, shit, I need to film content on this trip. We were having so much fun. So I kept putting my phone on the window. We would forget it was there and we would be doing all this silly stuff. But because I then was filming this stuff of us excited and giggly and silly and us being like, oh, my God, we're at the Ritz. Like, this is crazy. we both like were working in a warehouse 10 years ago or whatever and then i was like showing i was hung over like everyone else's it's like how do you bring that relatability and the things that we all struggle with like and like being late and like not liking your hair on the day how do you piece that all into luxury and that aspirational content i think if you can hit you've got to be vulnerable and honest to be able to do both i think if you can accept and post stuff that's a bit more messy and more people will warm up to the luxury stuff at the same time yeah you're so right it's almost like including the stuff that like doesn't separate us all you know the everyday stuff that everyone feels like people love the contradiction yeah so like the glamour plus the normality is like the perfect mix that's what you really want to see to maintain that kind of relatable yeah and yeah if it's not there in like finance or you know places that you the lifestyle Exactly.

20:45Patricia, your YouTube is close to 3 million subscribers. Wow. Spreakingly subscribers. Oh, my God. I've not loaded in a year. Really? Getting back to it. Hang on a minute. I've not even got to the good stuff. Okay, let's get to it. Close to 399 million channel views. Oh, wow. Okay. We found out those stats for you, Queen. Okay, stats. Yeah, stats. We've got a good stat team over there, Katie. Wow, guys. There we go. Yeah. When did you first feel like, or do you feel like this? Maybe it's me being presumptuous, that you had to start editing your success to make people feel comfortable. Has that ever happened?

21:23And if it did, when? And do you know what's so funny? I love this conversation because it's reminding me to be open again. Because I was open, I got the backlash, I shut down. I stopped sharing the numbers. So obviously a lot of people saw my journey. I've come from, they say around the way, but not really. I always worked in finance so I always had a really good job but people saw that you know from working girl I used to vlog me going to work yeah consulting I hated my job etc to building stuff to becoming a multi-millionaire and I think there was a moment where people were like oh and then when I would share exactly how to do it because my background was accounting and finance so I love teaching people how to genuinely build wealth and I shared my numbers I was very transparent on my investing journey on my property journey on my business building journey there was a switch there was a switch where people say well she thinks she's too big or she's this kind of person etc and put certain labels on me where I decided for many years oh I'm not going to talk about it anymore I'm not going to talk about my numbers because of the response yes correct and I was like well I was actually trying to share the how but because it had this like hinge of negativity around it to keep the peace I kept quiet about it only until like the last year again I decided to like be a bit more open yeah a bit more present be a bit more vulnerable not necessarily just around the numbers but around myself in general and in that period of time like you know between sort of having that change of heart again do you feel like the landscape's changed a bit and people are ready for what you were already doing exactly that and this is what I've been loving seeing is people talking about their numbers i think i created an entire channel all about personal finance in a year it grew to half a million youtube subscribers 200 000 on instagram and it's because i was like here's my numbers here's my tax return here's what i made here i bought this house on on the market etc etc but people just weren't ready for it then so i was like it's that british thing again because it's really like that's really brave but like i see that as brave like i'm like gosh that's really like brave to be so open but of course like what like why why not i just find it so bizarre though because yeah like as an outsider listening to your story then you're trying to help people 100 and you're giving your honest numbers yes and like what's actually going on like i think that's absolutely fantastic that you're helping people for free on youtube so basically the naysayers are often loud but i had a digital download for basically budgeting and 30 000 people downloaded so i made a lot of money on the back of that but what was really interesting was the stories that would come to me the amount of girls who said i got out of debt because of you wow i bought my first house i bought my second house in person the encounters was so so so different but online there was a lot of yeah you're so unrelatable you think you're and how do we like how do you guys digest all of that because like some you know it's that classic saying as you know people could go wow amazing amazing and you'll get like five comments that's like who does she think she is she's changed why is she sharing like how do they over you know there's like the sort of the wave that you ride do they sort of take over that for you does that do they sing louder than the other people that are going amazing for me personally it did right and again it's about building your confidence me personally i had to learn to be confident again and ignore those voices.

24:50And I'm a people pleaser. I really don't want to offend anyone. I didn't want to be rude. And YouTubers are classically nice. Like I grew up in the Zoella era. So we're like, don't do anything wrong. And then like TikTok generation, Gen Z are like, well, I don't give a heck. And so I've had to learn that attitude to be like, I'm actually going to be who I am loudly and proudly. And it may offend people. And do you know what? we talk a lot on this on this show actually about like almost stumbling across a category before people were ready for it and actually sometimes that's quite hard it happens in product a lot where you know I've spoke to founders that have stumbled across the wellness category before people were actually talking about wellness I spoke to Nicola Elliott who founded Neon yeah and Neon's obviously candles but wellness and it was a whole different side and they were like we don't know where to put you in the store it's great but we don't know where you live and like Like actually it was, she was having to educate like retailers and buyers as to where she belonged and what her point of difference was.

25:54Actually now you think how the wellness space has changed. It's like, this is where this lives. So it's almost the same thing that you were actually, you were arriving somewhere, but actually we weren't having those conversations yet. People were obviously clearly intrigued by it, but almost in private. Like I'm going to download the, I'm going to download this. And literally that was what it was. People enjoying certain things in private. But again, women didn't like to talk about money and business or how much they earned. It was something that was considered taboo. You don't talk about your salary.

26:25But again, when you open certain doors and people share more and more about their successes, it's really impactful and causes, I would say like a cultural shift. And I think that's what we're literally in now. fighting against sam have you ever shared anything that you were genuinely proud of but people almost interpret as you're showing off or you're fully yourself or probably so much over the years um i i mean i share a bit of everything from my lifestyle to business i share my numbers as well like with with revive all the time and um you know my kind of content now is more like 70 80 business not so much family but one thing that does happen often that if you go on holiday or if you treat yourself to something nice yeah i mean i'm sure it happens to you too they make some they make headlines about it like they genuinely make a headline about you going on holiday and they sometimes will tally up how many holidays you've had yeah or they'll work out what hotel you're in and figure out how much your room would be across the time that you were there and they're like they've spent this much on a holiday and it's so embarrassing because you're like Like, actually, I've worked so hard.

27:33You know, my kids work so hard at school. They do so much sport. That's my actual, like, what I live for. My time with them. I literally live for my holidays with my kids. And not to mention you probably working whilst you were there. Of course. I'm 20 plus 7. Paul's like, gosh, look at you. It's always, I'm like, listen, we can get this on. You shoot this. You do that. Let's do this. We've seen each other on holiday. We've been on a holiday before at the same hotel. The kids are playing. She's got an event. Oh, don't worry. I'll watch them. You go for your meet. I love that. I love that. You don't switch off.

28:01You don't. And I think it's kind of, I've also, like, in my big age, got a little bit like, I could give a shit. Like, I just do not care that it doesn't sit right with someone. I'm the same. There's got to be perks of working hard, right? Exactly. And for me, that is going with my family, switching off for a bit. If I lose, you know, and of course that comes with privilege, privilege that I've worked to create for myself, by the way, I should add. But of course there's a level of financial privilege that we all have. Absolutely. but for me I'm like that is that's the that's the why like I worked as soon as my kids are off school I'm like oh my god great I'm going to get a week with them I'm going to get two weeks with them and for me that's what I do it for it's honestly it's what I live for yeah and you know you work so hard they're working so hard and it's that time where you can and I actually that's what I spend most of my money on lovely holidays because that's what I live for with my family and that's okay like we're all everything's relative and everyone's allowed to enjoy but yeah they look to their labour in the way they want just quickly on like on trolls and stuff so like i used to get i mean bad comments and trolling used to happen so much when we were doing reality tv like oh i can imagine yeah and obviously like reality tv is like cut down into like small snippets of like hours and hours of filming so it'd always be the most like shocking moments and way back then it was so many but like now if someone comments or says anything like that's negative.

29:25It's not like it used to be. No one even writes about me anymore. I'm boring now. That's a good place to be. No one really writes much anymore. But when people do, I just, AI, I have a, what do you call it? When you just, not delete them, what do you call it? Hide. Hide them. No, no, hide them. You can filter. Oh, you've like limit the comments or whatever. Yeah, I do filter comments. But what's the thing where you can restrict? Oh, yes. There we go. If there's a real troll, because sometimes you get the ones that keep coming back. Yeah. Restrict, they're gone. so I don't remember and I actually think right does that person's comment bring any value to my life like is their opinion really going to change my day and it's like no yeah so but it wasn't like that when I was younger like you know I've been in the industry since I was a teenager but that's probably why because you've got a thick you've had to give yourself a thick skin yeah you know like we you know I can still every now and then you get like a troll pop or a bad comment and I know that you've just had it a lot recently but it's not they're not bringing any value to your life you know what I mean I just I mean you do the skin gets thicker as the years go on.

30:22It does, it does. And I think it's almost, it kind of has to. I turned a long time ago. You can't comment on my page unless you follow me. So I'm kind of like, how do you do that? It's a setting. So I'm just like, well, you don't. I didn't know that was a thing. So they have to follow you to be able to comment. Or it says limited comments and someone wouldn't actually be able to comment. Okay. Because I just think, I didn't know that. It's not going to be nice. For me, it's like, you want to be part of the gang, you're following, aren't you? Yeah. So I, that just. Although I would say on that, like the revenue we did for Agenda, I reckon half of that has come from all that hatred.

31:00Yeah. 100%. So actually it's like, I don't think I'd ever block out the haters because I think the haters have got me to where I am today. I love that. I think it's because. I think they have. No, I love. It's a very fair point. I love the controversy sometimes. Yeah. It's conversation at the end of the day. That's the thing. You made a conversation. It went viral online. so good or bad your name and your product was everywhere hate me, you've really built my business, thank you you know, appreciate it I've always said that, some hate is actually information that you can use to do better and I always say, if you don't like me, don't tell me what I don't do well, because I'm going to take that I'm going to use it, I'm going to improve if necessary, and I'm going to come back better you're so right it's actually very valuable to me use it as data I had a really good I was having a really bad week last week with some logistical issues and a couple of things went really wrong and I was like really in my head about the fact that I'd got stuff wrong and I was with a friend and he said I'm going to tell you a story that will make you see problems differently right and he said my friend used to run a bar and he would love it when someone said excuse me my champagne's flat because he'd take the drink from them he'd go into the back he'd get like the best bottle of champagne a cold glass and he'd go back he'd present it to them open the bottle in front of them put on like a big show pouring it all fancy and they'd leave and say that was the best this has been the best experience of my life because he got to take an experience and make it amazing yeah and as soon as i heard that story i was like wow that really makes me think like when there's a problem as long as you can acknowledge it find a solution own up to it and solve it yeah you're always going to be in a better position and you can't make perfect if you don't have a problem it's that's so true and it's all learnings like yeah particularly like the idea of launching something incredibly fresh and incredibly new and it being a well-oiled machine i think people do expect a level when you have a public profile because they assume that instantly this is like a big corporate yeah actually this is a small which is starting as a small independent startup and yes we've done incredibly well but we're catching up to yeah and we're and i think there's a it's really hard because you want to be that person and you want to be ready and you want it to be seamless but it's all learnings like you'll look back and be like god remember when we did it like this and you'll have found a new solution and a new you know method to how you work and i think it's just that is that's what happens continuously exactly that it's constantly fighting yeah yeah always from the failures yeah and i think that will always be the way and two things like i had a week that was like amazing with one business but then with the other business i'm like oh god we've got some stuff to sort out here i'm like both things can be true at once which is why it's always so important to celebrate the wins because you're never going to be living that place forever we went for dinner yesterday with my team so I was like and if I'd have planned the dinner we would have cancelled it and said we've got stuff to do we're like let's just okay we've got a few hours let's go for dinner let's celebrate the week because tomorrow's going to be a new problem and that's just how it is and it's just holding on to those moments um Isabel you've said that part of the reason that you talk so openly about numbers money the data and like performance of things is because you really want I suppose younger women and girls to realize how much success is possible like and how much is out there because I suppose it is it can be quite restrictive right yeah I think it's you know with Agenda as an example there were so many people saying oh this is so expensive no one's gonna buy it but then i was looking at the shopify and i was like but people are buying it so that's a really good point you know it's kind of happening the noise goes off and i think that people don't understand how huge the economic market is there's a space for everything yeah yeah and one thing i found really interesting after the launch is that there were a couple of um competitor brands like throwing a bit of shade at me and there were some girls making videos like i'm so grateful that isabel lawn has launched an agenda because now my small agenda business is agenda business sorry we're getting lots of sales because she's made it popular and ours is maybe more affordable or it's faux leather when she doesn't do faux leather or they've got silver and i do gold yeah and i was commenting on them like this is what i love about businesses that people that understand that if I make a product popular everyone in the market wins yeah because it's driving it up if um Hermes brought out a agenda line next week I'd be buzzing because all of a sudden they've made agendas cool and shit you know and it's exactly the same so I found that really interesting that there were some girls that were genuinely messaging me saying thank you so much like yeah we've done so many sales particularly because that's the way she's is quite niche right so for you to your your marketing agendas yeah period like whether it's your you know brand and then if somebody's like oh it looks lovely but i've not got the yeah 150 to 300 pounds to you can afford yours i've seen this girl that's got a small business i'm gonna buy from her like it just it populates everything by having a big conversation there's room for the mark every market like we were talking about you can buy a handbag from primark you can buy one from hermes everyone still wants a handbag and actually people buying handbags in primark one day might buy one from ms so everything drives the market up it's like economics right yeah so it's really interesting i found it really interesting when i saw people like personally messaging me saying thank you because i just thought this is such a nice side of business that people think it's all head on yeah and it's not like all competition is good of course and sometimes that's why the noise is so important not only for your sales but for what the knock-on effect that it's having on other businesses too I want to talk about something that I can imagine that we've all experienced particularly a because we're female in a sort of you know in the space that we're in I want to talk about being taken seriously because this is something that really interests me it's something that I had for a long time and I think probably still now to a degree I just don't really listen to it or talk to those people so I don't care but I remember for a long period of time sort of rocking up to meetings being you know talking to supply or and you know entering zooms people go oh my god sorry i didn't know you were going to be on here and the idea of me saying this is my business or this is my brand and this is what i've launched and people are like well i suppose there's an assumption that well i couldn't have it must be a mastermind above me and an agent that have come up with a great idea and i'm just here doing all things shiny um which was my life for a long time when I was just being ambassadors for other businesses when it comes to me and mine like I have my own management company we have the podcast I have my little cocoa I have Eula and people always I think now less so because I make a point about discussing business and particularly maybe this podcast has done that too but I think people there was a period of time where I'd be in a room I'd be sat at a table and people would I would you know suggest something people would be talking to my agent and they were just there to sort of be across it because I didn't then have time to relay what I was up to but they'd be going so we think that she should and I'm like hi guys I'm here and that isn't how we work and I think the idea of sometimes being taken seriously in a space that maybe you don't it's not the norm that you should be in it or it's not the norm that everybody looks like you or so on and so forth and it's definitely something that I'm really comfortable with and actually I quite enjoy it because I quite like that they think that I don't or they did think that I don't know what's going on or I'm not present or I mustn't be across this because I use that to my advantage because they think whilst they're off talking to that person I've already come up with a strategy that this to that and they haven't they weren't taking me seriously and I'm off you know so I sort of it's almost empowering to me because I'm always like oh okay we'll see and that's always been my like what okay well that we can talk to me it's almost like wearing like sexy underwear isn't it like no one knows it's there yeah I like that.

39:07That's a good analogy. I would have said like a Batman. Yeah. I think we'll always come up against the challenge of being taken seriously. Sam, has that been something that I suppose entering the world that you have done with your background? You know, we say reality TV, being a celebrity, et cetera, et cetera. Is that something that you've found? Yeah. Well, when we, so Revive Collagen come from my own skin issues. It was just an idea, yeah? Yeah. It was an idea and I'd been taking powder collagen and it was inconvenient. When I rang John, he was my business partner, and he was my talent, been my talent manager as well for like 10, 11 years.

39:42Anyway, I rang John, I was like, and by the way, we had two failed businesses before Revive. We made every single mistake, lost all of our money, lost our office, had to lay off staff. Every mistake you could think we made in business, and that's why Revive has worked this time, thank God. Product, product, product, the first thing, obviously that worked, that's why, in my eyes. But because all those mistakes we made, we applied to Revive. Lessons. To make it, yeah, they're all lessons. but when we when I had the idea we knew what we wanted it is a premium product it's premium prices but we went to so many manufacturers to formulate what we wanted we wanted to be liquid liquid hydrolyzed we wanted sorry hydrolyzed liquid we wanted vitamin C keratin we went all this stuff we wanted to put in one little sachet drink it I wanted it to be like easy and on the go everyone said no everyone was like you're mad you can't do this it's going to be too expensive From the manufacturer's sort of point of view, right?

40:34We wanted it to be in the UK. Yeah, people that were formulating for us. We are obviously both British. We wanted it to be a UK brand, which makes prices high anyway. When I say everyone said no, literally everyone said no, six months later, finally, someone took the risk, I'd say, because everyone said you can't do it. It's impossible. It's going to be too expensive. You can't get all that into one sachet. Someone trusted us. It took a long time to actually get it right because we had to put it all into one small sachet and obviously cost a lot of money. but someone believed in us and they're actually still our manufacturers today.

41:05You know, it's been such a journey to get to that but, you know, you have so many ups and downs in business. But what you could have done is actually take the shortcut and this is what I think always, I love the tenacity of women and obviously John too, that, you know, this is your business together but the tenacity of both of you because what you could have done is just going, yeah, this isn't going to work, let's do the powder one. I want to talk about criticism but fair criticism because you touched on that before that actually sometimes we do all use it as data and there's there's times where people flag stuff to me that I'm like shit you know what I didn't think of that it's a really fair point and I'll instantly show up with the team I'm like let's pivot on this because actually we none of us have sat around the table and thought of this and this is actually now invaluable because that might change the way we make our decisions moving forward um sometimes feedback is fair sometimes it feels like heavy but I suppose it's that idea of having to know everything when you first launch something I saw Isabel that you posted the other day about um understanding customer service and it being a sort of a really fresh proposition to you and being determined to get it right and I thought do you know what it's so honest as when I saw that story I thought it's such a healthy attitude and that's what I love about social media now is that there are so many founders there are so many businesses which for me is such a beautiful thing like there are so many women that feel confident to launch something new but what is great about it is that we're sharing the light you know the light and shade and when things don't go right you're like i'm human i'm figuring it out it's all noted yeah and for you how has that aspect been so i think what i was saying to someone this morning was we did we've done a million pounds of revenue in our first month which sounds amazing no it's it's a it is amazing it is amazing when your business is set up to make 250 000 pounds in the first month that brings a million pounds of problems that you physically don't have the mental physical capacity to solve manpower yeah too is a big thing when you prepare for a launch and you think it's like this is all great problems adrenaline right it's like the adrenaline and then after a few weeks you're like yes you know yeah so the biggest problem we've had is that because our product's on pre-order that itself comes with a lot of customer service right because normally when you buy a product it gets shipped out in an hour and you can't really change it until it arrives at the front door the next day when something's on pre-order oh isabel now i want the navy can i swap oh can i add this to my order because now it's on pre-order for a later date, which is all fine.

43:43But then all of a sudden, all these orders are piling up and all these questions are coming in. And then when you mix in like fulfillment center issues on top of that and logistic problems, the customer service is just absolutely overwhelmed. And some of the feedback we were getting is, no one's replying to my email, no one's replying to my customer service email. And we're like, we've hired three people a week. So we've got like 12 customer service people now full time. To get on top. Helping us full time, right? But it does take a second to clear the backlog and also figure out the solutions to all these things.

44:16So the fulfillment center issue we had last week actually ended up costing me a lot of money to fix. And I'm angry about it because that would cripple most small businesses and it would cripple most startups. If they hadn't have had the cash flow that you had at the time. Yeah, absolutely. But I was like, I need to get the stock out of that fulfillment center into a new home so we can probably get these orders out efficiently to stop people waiting. So I was like, do I pay that huge, ridiculous bill that's unfair and get the stock out and make the customers happy? Or do I keep fighting and not pay the bill and the customer service is just piling up and up and up?

44:52It's so stressful. I'm getting anxious though because I just know this pain is stressful. Paid. Yeah. Because the customer comes first. Custom comes first. And also you've only got like you want everybody's this is what's so hard when you're launching something new. We've had it with one of our products actually. We've got our reset roller. It's actually really quite a basic thing and it sounds basic. But we probably didn't communicate it right. We've got like it's got like a sort of grata roller at the end. And essentially for me it was quite an obvious thing. But that's me. I've lived with this product for a very long time.

45:28I developed the product. you open it with the cap on remove the hygiene seal and put it back on but and when and when we explain it to customers but there was so many responses to get back to them all yeah they actually think the product's broken and then they've hacked it with scissors to get it out and i'm like it just was a hygiene seal something that i shop a lot of beauty right i know that there's gonna if it's not coming out there's gonna be a hygiene so i'm gonna take it off but yeah we're sort of trying to target people that don't shop you consume it in the same way they're doing their evening shop and they've found it and they're like that looks great so yeah it's having patience to communicate something that i think is quite an obvious thing but it's the response and getting it back to them creating a video showing them an asset of how to and it's time yeah the time to sort of get back to everyone but i want their first because they're like it all looks great and it's arrived but i don't think it works but i want their first experience with me to be amazing yeah so it's like of course you're gonna yeah sort of forfeit that cash to make sure they want to come back again yeah and actually the someone told me ages ago if you've got a really upset customer the best thing to do is ring them so i've actually been just randomly ringing people hi it's this one yeah they're like what yeah and i'm like we're trying our best yeah we're doing this we're doing this but what's also difficult is that i don't want to be on instagram every day being today's problem is that yes yes yes so then i'm i'm i'm waiting to communicate what's happened when i know do you think people expect that of you because of that's how they know you so they're like hello yeah you're on instagram i need sometimes the problems are so complicated i don't even know what's going on so i can't communicate until i'm 100 sure of the update i can give you which takes you know a day or two to bring a solution to you so the customer service for me has been a learning curve but to be honest i'd much rather it was customer service than there was a problems with the product yeah like it yeah that's fixable you know yes and i'm learning we'll get there we give me a month no honestly everyone is but should you think sort of as women we have a pressure on us or we are pressured to have everything figured out like you say we're learning we're doesn't matter at what point in your journey or however that looks we're all learning and there'll be new curveballs and we'll have to pivot and you know take a new path that was different to the one that we thought it you know that we first proposed do you think there is a pressure on us to have everything run like a slick operation at all times 100 percent and i wonder if that's just like a pressure that we put on ourselves yeah because i imagine that a lot of us are actually perfectionists we want things a certain way that was our vision this is what we wanted and when it doesn't match up to that it is you know difficult but then also you have the external pressure and the expectations that are on you as a rich successful woman well why isn't this right and people are not necessarily patient yeah it's gracious with people who they look at as you know being there we're not always going to be there we're not always going to have it right but there is there is pressure and like things that come from both sides yeah sorry to chime in when you said about like people look at someone that's rich because we share all these numbers right and successful they just think we can throw money at a problem and it goes away yeah but it doesn't no it doesn't you can have all the money in the world i'm still going to have a logistical fulfillment problem i can throw millions and millions and millions of quid it's not going to solve anything exactly it takes the right person you can be right brain successful it doesn't make a difference you could be really famous and it still doesn't guarantee success so i recently saw like scarlett johansson's the brand yes i saw that closed down you'd think big name lots of money money millions of dollars it has to be successful no it doesn't always work no no and there's a reason and also i think with that as well i'm i i was reading up a lot on that actually um every past couple of days i thought it's really interesting that people were saying well she's got enough money can't she just put the you know her next film into it to pump it i'm like that's not like if a business isn't working yeah as we just said you can chuck whatever you want you can chuck the kitchen sink at it if it doesn't work yeah you have to it'd be bad business form to carry on and continue to cut your losses sometimes exactly that and like you say you've had things that didn't work out before you know i've had real moments that haven't worked out and you know it's only probably now that i'm comfortable talking about it because at the time i was trying to get myself you're feeling bad and also i don't really know what the solution is right i'm trying to i'm in the trenches i don't talk about it yeah i've not got the resolve right now yeah it's it's really hard do you think when when we talk about situations or we talk about success do you think there's a a double standard when it comes to women and men and I hate to sort of make this devices about I don't want this we're not anti-men I've worked with incredible men for a very long time I've got partners that are men and this isn't what this is about but I think with certain things that does and actually the men that work with me know it they're like wow that's mad he would never have just spoke to me in that way you know if we've had conversations and I've gone in and had a meeting they were like that's so interesting they would have never have brought that to my attention or so on and so forth so I kind of I think like particularly when I think of online reaction and I I'm reading this stat here and this takes me back do you remember when Molly May was on Stephen Bartlett's podcast and she said something about we've got the same 24 hours and it was like something that Beyonce had said.

50:52Exactly, yeah. And it got, it really, the way that the world, I mean, you would have thought she'd said something, like it was crazy what happened and I thought it was really interesting that it started another conversation that Stephen Bartlett spoke out actually after he said it and he'd said that he'd had male guests that say similar things, way more out there things every single week on the podcast and no one actually cared. Yeah. But the idea that Molly Mason, So we've all got the same standards. I really try and maximise mine. And it was seen as such a big thing. But there will always be, I suppose, that double standard.

51:27Do you think that? Well, I mean, the comment I've got on men and women is, so from my experience, I feel like there's more question around a woman that works, that runs the household, that travels for work. Yes. And it's like, how do you do it all? How do you juggle it? But then no one would ever ask Paul that. Exactly. I say it all the time. You've been so busy. How do you juggle it? Yeah. Because we're a team, me and Paul. We actually do like 50-50. It's very 50-50. John and I travel at least once a month for work. And Paul holds it down and vice versa. And then when he goes, you know, he was...

52:03But remember, that's 12 holidays, not 12 holidays. Yeah. It must be as good to say. It's popping up their holidays there. Yeah. And it's mad because it's like, you know, people maybe are just being genuine. Like, wow, you've done so much this month. Like, wow, you know, been here, there and everywhere. and I'm like yeah but I think no one would ever ask for that and you wonder is that the way that we're just as that we're conditioned as a society because yeah exactly the same thing we'll go to an event Marv and I together we'll be hosting together we work with each other sometimes and we'll be talking and Marv actually makes a point like he's actually such a good ally and a bit of a wingman in that because someone they'll say to me oh who's got the kids tonight and he's like next to me I'm like well we're both kind of you know it's just so interesting he's there DJing I'm there hosting and no one said to Marv when he's in Ibiza a week and he's got a gig every night oh who's got the kids tonight because it's not a question it's like to offend you but it's just funny how that's just the way but sometimes it does it depends what day it's on like it doesn't offend me but then sometimes I'm like I probably drew on and I'm like didn't you fucking ask him that did you you know sometimes it does every time a woman is successful is that there must have been this rich guy funding there's another guy in the US it couldn't be her who's the person who is the guy Like he's like, it's just me.

53:17Like I did this. I did it. I bought the house. You own this. And I've had that happen where people come to my house, seen the car and they're like, is this the house basically? It's like, no, it's me. It's just me in this house. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a really scary thing. It's not that, you know, there's different expectations. I think it's people's just perception that women can't do these things of their own accord. And it has to be a man. but actually yeah or the backing off one yeah you must be the girl that's front and centre and there's got to be someone behind you I mean it would be nice I'm not going to lie yeah stunning actually I just want to be a passenger princess one day one day what did you say Sam you had something like that happen to you in the US yeah so I'm not going to say who it was but because he's known but I walked in please tell us tell us off camera yeah I will it was Chris so Chris Appleton was out who's not you know He's on Strictly at the minute.

54:15Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was our US global band ambassador last year. And he was great. It was brilliant. But we'd done this big shoot in Bel Air. That's it. We had a big house in Bel Air. We laid it all up. Anyway, I was a little bit late because I was buying him a gift. So I wanted to show up at the shoot as the founder of a gift. For him. Yeah, really nice. It was so funny. So I walked into the shoot maybe half an hour late. And everything was going on. And he was sort of hair and makeup. but he took a couple of glances at me but he was sort of busy and then I was like hi Chris, lovely to meet you and he just went hi and then that was it.

54:48It was so funny and I went to Sean and I was like I don't think he knows that I'm like founder of the brand and he's fine. It doesn't matter, right? At the end of the world and I was like I'm going to go in again. It kind of does matter. I'm like it matters. It was funny because there was this barrier so before I explained who I was and obviously founder of the brand he was like oh babe I just because he said when I explained who I was he was like babe I just thought that this was because he basically wanted to know i think he thought because a few things he said that it wasn't my money or my business it was like maybe my husband or my partner and you were just there to show up and i was there yeah like to front the business but it was so funny and he was like oh my god i just thought you were coming to bring me a gift i was just like a runner or something it's really interesting though that when running a business you still want to do some of those i'm not going to call them feminine tasks but the fact that you was like let me get a little gift let me make sure that he feels that that's such a that's your feminine energy coming out yeah to do but that then impacted the way you were perceived yeah and then sometimes you feel like you have to be super super aggressive for people yeah i don't know if you feel like no no no 100 yeah and it's like because you won't respect me or you won't take me you need to sort of have adopt a bit of masculine energy but actually that's exactly what makes us unique in what we do and exactly what is is why we do what we do right like i know exactly what you mean like we feel that we need to come in like a boss bitch to be taken seriously and that's not what it's about like it's not natural bring him his dip tea candle and like welcome him that's what we want to do put him some sunglasses yeah i've been shopping for them if you don't mind um i want to ask you isabel do you think if a sort of 25 year old mal entrepreneur but an audience and sort of bought his dream porsche and had those conversations after documenting like he was working towards it do you think that you would have the same comments or the same conversation would be happening if if you were male no of course not of course not and I think I said um a while ago it's really interesting one of the biggest uh hate comments I get around money and people thinking oh there's no way that you've earned any money from influencing to buy that or there's no way you as a female business owner have made enough money to buy a house or a car or a burkin or whatever the most frequent response is oh she's an escort stop it right now yeah that's like my most my most frequent like comment in response to all these questions is like she's an escort, she's a high paid escort she's an escort you know I could write a book on that but I won't and no one ever says to like a 25 year old guy with like a fancy car oh he's a drug dealer he's a drug dealer he's a drug dealer or an escort some of them where I'm from they do some of them I'm like yeah where I'm from they might be it's never like a frequent thing I know what you mean he's just a drug dealer he's just a drug dealer they're like oh what econ business has he founded like that's the question you know or crypto he's a crypto founder or there's like that sort of genuine curiosity like oh what has he achieved that's really interesting I'd love to know what he's built whereas like you say that kind of like I've had it before and I'm thinking I've always had a career in the public eye but people are like oh yeah it's because she's married to marvin that was in jls i'm like like what yeah and i'm you know we're a married couple right and we've both had successful careers and that will be a real part of what we've achieved together as in like you know that has of course contributed to the house that we are building and but as is mine like you know it's kind of a really it's just a really funny outlook and a really weird archaic take on life yeah and you know what some people say oh she's lucky or like oh she got lucky because of having, for example.

58:36And I'm like, Towie at 19 didn't teach me business. I literally had to start from scratch with a business. And also that could have gone against you in some rooms too. Like you say, you chose to keep yourself out of it for a period of time in case it did go against it. And I think, listen, we always got to be realistic, all four of us, and acknowledge the privilege that we have in certain situations. Of course, I'm by no sort of disillusion that, of course, having a following, having a you know a crew of people that have your back in the way that we can use our platform of got people to the tesco door but the true you know proof is in the pudding when that product runs out are they going to run back for it that's a test of time so i'm always like for me a launch is like a launch is great and that's lovely and it's going incredibly well and i'm delighted don't get me wrong yeah but of course i know that that will make them go to the shop and give it a go when that product runs out are they going to go i need to run back and that's when you see the real test and that is a business and it'll be the same for you and they're going to buy the refills and they're going to when they run out that will be a real test and we can never get too gassed about a launch because we're all adding a certain element of privilege to that but it is also privilege that we've worked for so I won't ever sort of discredit what we've done we're allowed to be proud we're allowed to be proud and the concept of using your unfair advantage whatever you have is it beauty is it money is it a rich boyfriend is it whatever use it and then keep using new privileges and that's okay it is what it is everybody has something that sets them apart and they should lean into that.

1:00:05Why would you shy away from the gifts that you have? Such good advice. Such good advice. I want to sort of, I actually don't want to bring this to a close actually. I'm having a lovely time. But I suppose we've got to because we've been taking forever an hour. But I want to sort of bring this back by, I suppose, talking to the woman that's listening to this right now. She might not have millions of people watching her. She might not be getting the promotion, you know, grow the business. she might not be scaling or anything else in between but she might have sort of had glimmers of positivity and glimmers of oh that thing might work out for me and suddenly could realize that success can make people uncomfortable so it might not be millions of people watching but we've all had it in friendship groups right we've had it in family where people go oh well you're the career girl oh you're doing that thing again are you still going at that you're still giving that go um almost that passive aggressive tone that you're like oh you really think that's going to work out do you not just want a normal job you know we've all had those kind of and for me I always say to people like you really will find your tribe and actually doing this podcast I've found people that I can lean on and people that are in the same space as me that we that might have even done it before about to do it currently doing it like I think you do find those people that you lean on and it might not be the people that you've always lent on for things before previously in your life and like that is also okay you will you will get to places where you lose friends when success might hold a mirror up to people that aren't comfortable with you doing well but not necessarily better than them but with this there's seasons of it and it's okay and there will be little there will be relationships along the way that you do grieve but you might resolve them you might they might fall off for a moment but I think there really is that kind of when you're doing something where success might be a part of it it's fair to say expect certain times to feel quite lonely even though that it might look like on the outside that it's all incredible it can be quite a lonely life too um so patricia i'll start with you if a woman is sort of becoming more successful like you know alluding to what i'm just saying and the people around her are becoming less comfortable with her success what would you tell her what would i tell her i do feel like you can find the people who are there for the journey yeah um for me i made a lot of new friends along the way right and i realized they were only fair weather friends they were there for the glamour whatever but it's actually been my old school friends my 20 year long friends who i've had to cling to and And I think people do need people to be able to be comfortable with their success.

1:02:46But you just need to be careful about what that circle looks like. And it may not be the glamorous friend or the Instagram friend who you can also take the pictures with. But you will find that community who may not relate to what you're doing, but they're still there to support you on that journey. And you can't, you know, you can't go far when you are on your own. You do need people with you. And also know where to position people. There might be that we're going to go to the club. we're going to go to the wine bar we're going to sit at home and cry we're going to build a strategy together know where you group people and where they are meant to be in your life and don't expect everything from one particular person i wonder when it comes to like good news like you know you've got something that you really want to tell people for example like you've just had a lot you know we've all had these moments you know i'm talking about 399 million views of your videos I'm like, for example, sometimes in life, I feel there's only a certain amount of people that you can tell those things to.

1:03:44Like I was getting all these like this data sent to me from Boots and from Tesco. And I'm like, I can probably count on one hand the people that I would tell that to because I don't want to feel like, guys, look at me. But equally, like I know that some people would genuinely in their soul be like, girl, I am. But like, of course, I'm buzzing for you. yeah but it's it's funny isn't it that you're like and I remember forwarding it to one of my best friends who are you know she's like one of my best best best old school friends and I said it to her I was like as we've realized in like older life there's not many people that you can tell genuine good news to and I know that you're gonna almost feel like how my mum feels for me yeah um so I just want to send you this and she's like this is not something to forward me by message you better call me this is fucking amazing and you know and i know that how happy genuinely like like i would be for my child learning to ride the bike or like have that same sort of feeling do you are you the same have you got people that you would genuinely open up and tell good news to or are you just like this is for me i'm saying i've got like five people yeah there are three i'd say there are friends i have that not a glimmer of jealousy they even like to keep me humble like girl we don't care about this we're doing tacos on fridays yes i kind of love those friends who keep me like you know yes you know in my place they love that i'm successful they're cheering for me no hint of jealousy no hint of competition and usually they're often in a different space space in their life or even a completely different industry they just care but happy that you're happy and they're not too bothered they don't actually see everything unless you tell them.

1:05:21Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I've got a real close group of friends like that. Yeah. And they love me and we get together and we don't even talk about anything that I've been doing or launching or where I've travelled. Like, they obviously have an interest if I bring up but we just talk about other crap. Yeah, and that's it. Gossip, gossip, gossip. yeah, yeah. And aren't they just the, to me, they're the friendships that I'm like, it's not even out. It's like, should I come up to your, our thing is we do vodka pasta night because we all just, like, it's the same with you and your tacos i'm like exactly mine wearing our pajamas and it's like this is what we do and they're the friends that i'm like oh by by the way they'll say something and we'll be having a conversation oh yeah i forgot to tell you that they're like why that's amazing like i didn't know this and yeah it it keeps i think they're really precious i think you realize that when we talk about finding your tribe those people become really apparent really quickly i think and i think it's like sort of keeping those people close do you think as women we should sort of stop trying to make our ambition more palatable for other people like you know that like our sort of if we're blue sky thinking we've all got that north star and the thing that we're working towards but sometimes we'll dumb it down for people when we're like we just you know we want to fit in i do it all the time yeah it's really bad i shouldn't do it but it's an easy trap to fall into because you just think we shouldn't do it no and i'm sure you've got some better advice I feel like you're bragging.

1:06:47Yeah, exactly. It's such a normal conversation you'd have with people you talk to every day. It's different, isn't it? Because I think there's certain conversations I can have with some women and there's certain conversations I have with others. And obviously we're sitting here and you're all successful women in your own right. And I feel like anything that I say, you're just going to be like, yeah, great, you love it. But sometimes you're in a room with people and you just feel like you can't openly speak about your numbers or your successes. But this goes back to my point. Is this a female thing?

1:07:17I think so. Because it's like you play small just to not come across a certain way. It's us. It's almost our problem. And you know like if someone introduces you sometimes and then they'll list off like all the highlights of your life in the last 10 years. I literally am like, oh my God, it's so embarrassing. Which is exactly why I didn't introduce you all. Just for you listening, I don't introduce the guests in front of them because I hate it when people do it to me yeah when they're like she's done this she's done that I'm like yeah I think a good way to not make yourself feel small though when you're trying to talk about something you're doing or something you're achieving is ask twice before you say once so if I just met Patricia yeah I could ask her what do you do for a living and what's your goals before I then tell you mine and that makes me feel more comfortable because I've squeezed what I want to the conversation I want to open with you I've made it about you yeah so that i can flow it into what i'm open to discuss yeah i want to discuss yeah i do that quite a lot but but okay interestingly though so say if you did that and patricia's response was to kind of play small would you match that energy or would you still say what you would you still step in turn and be like i've had this has happened that like would you still choose to play it small if she did to match her i think i'd go middle ground i wouldn't small but I wouldn't think yeah or I'd keep prying something I quite like that like I feel like it's a Britishness but that humbleness like yeah it's okay like I'm doing alright I don't know there's something about it that I think is quite disarming but it's also a superpower I think there's an element of always reading the room so like if I walk into a room and it's mums who are struggling to put food on the table or I'm smashing it the sweet queen I'm sorry all these events like no they don't They don't need that right now.

1:09:08Let's read the room. And I think that it's important for us to understand our successes internally, but also have a perspective of the wider societal world. We do do the British thing. Even when I walked in here, we both said to each other, and you're like, oh. No, but do you know what? Do you know what? I do. And for me, I truly believe, like, you know, there's questions that I sit in on this podcast and ask women, like, what was the moment that you feel like you truly launched my answer would actually be I don't feel like that's ever happened yeah because I the minute I feel comfortable in what I've done I feel like that's it I might as well jump off this bus because actually there's always like I'm never I'm always gonna go we could have done that a bit better let's go into the next you know and of course we've got to celebrate our wins but I think I'll always be that person that's like yeah it was really good but I'm a realist and I know that any point this can be taken off us and And we can, you know, and I've had that with My Little Coco.

1:10:05We can have great launches and we can have ones that don't, that fall a bit flat. And that is the nature of what it is. So I don't ever get caught up in thinking like, like I said, now the next challenge is making people come back and how do they repeat that purchase? So I'm always excited by stuff and excited by what we're doing and the ideas we have. But I don't think I'll ever sit here and be like fucking killing it because I just think there's always more to do. There's always something tomorrow. yeah yeah i think i saw um lucy that founded hair syrup she did a video yesterday and she said um we've over glamorized being a founder so much and i i was talking to her about it separately and i said it's so interesting i think people really think when you you you launch a business to get rich right but that you will plummet in five minutes if that's the goal like the point of launching a business is that you're then constantly solving problems it's like a roller coaster yes and you can only run a business if you genuinely love highs and lows yeah carry on that's the point of running a business and being an entrepreneur it's like the highs and the lows do you enjoy that if you just want a steady line don't launch your business yes like if you get a thrill out of being calm and relaxed and stable it's not the world yeah yeah it's so true and it's such good advice it's such good advice because it's so true like sometimes the the excitement and being part of that might be what you want but sort of you know work for some work for a startup and be alongside but the idea of it not being yours if that sits nicer with you then that's the way to do it and there's you know there's room and there's space for everyone but you're right it's not firefighting becomes everyday life and it it sort of unlocks this I mean I wasn't prepared for the level of firefighting when I started a business but now it's part of me and I feel like I'm I take it in my stride but the first fire you fight you're like, woof, wow.

1:11:54And then you think, oh, I could do another one. And then you look back and I think, wow, the fact that I was worried about that, we didn't let the fires get bigger and then they get smaller. And that is just the kind of push and pull of it all. To close this episode, which I really don't want to because I've enjoyed it. I feel like we should just get a bottle of wine or something. That feels like where this is going. I'd like you to all finish this sentence for me. And the sentence is, a successful woman should never have to apologise for. Trisha, I'll start with you. this is not gonna be the answer you'd expect but it's actually to take a nap to go to sleep honestly i think rest is underrated and i think people and women who put themselves under a lot of pressure they want to keep going they don't listen to their body i need a nap i'm gonna take a seat i'm gonna sit down i'm gonna close my eyes for a moment and i'll come back when i'm ready that is i love that you're the one who gets up at 10 a.m yeah yeah no excuse your sleep schedule has absolutely inspired me today.

1:12:54As you enjoy it. Inspired me. I'm going to take a nap. I love that. That's it. Exactly that. Never apologise for that nap. You enjoyed it. That's important. You needed it. Exactly that. How about you, Sam? I'm going to go speak to the mums because mine is never apologise for

1:13:14wanting to follow your dreams and also being a great present mum because you can do both. Yes. I'm living proof, ladies. I love that. I absolutely love that. And it's also like accepting the kind of push and pull of it all, because you can do both. And it doesn't mean both things are going to be perfect. When we're travelling, we're doing amazing for the business. When we're not travelling, we've probably got 150 emails that we've unread, but we're being really present for the kids. And you can have both, but it's the expectation of it all being balanced at once. And that goes back to my holidays, because that's why when I have my trips with my kids and Paul, that's my only downtime that I have where it's like actually about them and me and a family because all that in between is just, it's crazy.

1:14:01And girl, you're right. You should never have to apologise for that. Ever, ever, ever. Like that is, that's what it's about. Preach, preach, preach. Isabel, putting herself first. Yes. I think like the past month I haven't seen any of my friends I've not done any basically of any of the commitments I've been doing for months I haven't seen my Pilates instructor for a month and I'm just like do you know what guys I just need a minute but I don't want to come out for drinks because I can't be hungover tomorrow I don't want to meet up with you because I feel like I'm just going to be on my phone and I'm not going to be giving you any attention I just need to prioritise myself for a second yeah and if you have the right people around you they will understand that yeah but they don't mind you they don't get upset by your actions and i think when you launch your business you can really see who cares about you around you because they'll they're there for you but they don't pest you yes you're so right and it's like really having people around you that give you grace when you're not replying straight away and they don't do that thing where you're like then you've posted something online so they're like well she's on her phone yeah all of that we can't like it's just like learn when to say no and say it boldly i'm really sorry i said i could come to that event tomorrow i can't come anymore i'm not going to be present i'm not going to be a good energy i don't want to ruin your day yeah my whatsapp you know you can change the different like bite like um what do you call it mine is slow to respond really good mine's slow to respond because then it's almost like an auto out of office reply I've got pinned people that I respond to within a second but sometimes you just know that you can't respond to everyone right here right now I feel like the start of my message to most people is I'm so sorry I'm terrible yeah always oh you know I'm terrible on my phone but you know but you know what I said ages ago I walked past this girl I feel like I've told so many people this story so if everyone's heard it already I'm so sorry I've not so tell me So I walked past this girl just passing in the street and she was like, I'm so sorry.

1:16:12It's taken me so long to get back to you. And I was like, in that first two seconds of the voice note, you've admitted to someone that they're not a priority to you. You don't need to apologise. Just say, hey, I hope you've had a great month. Just getting back to you with this ex. And it's like, why are we always apologising for being slow and we should take our time. So next time you get one of those messages, don't say sorry. It's reframing it. Just reframe it as... I hope you've had a great month. I've been up to X, Y, Z. And then reply to the facts. Yeah, what are we apologising for? I think I just feel rude because sometimes I go back and it's been quite well.

1:16:45I'm like, oh gosh, I might not come off too well. Just reopen the concert. Yeah, four years later. Hi, sorry. My son can't have a play date on Friday, but you asked me six months ago. I'm so sorry. You know, it's those ones. I don't even see it. You can flip that into let us organise a play date two weeks time. The kids would love it. Yes, it is. is reframing it reframing the narrative at all times reframe and prioritize i'm gonna end this by saying a successful woman should never have to apologize for being successful yeah like this is what we're ultimately doing like we're apologizing for things that we have worked our bout of dreamed of longed for and sometimes we see it as an inconvenience for other people that it's happened or we're on the road.

1:17:33We're on the right sort of track to it happening. And I think we should never have to apologise for that because that's the whole point, right? We've got these dreams, we've got these desires and like sometimes just a real itch that you need to scratch and you shouldn't have to apologise for the success of it all because everyone around you that loves you and adores you will be on the right track with you, I think. So yeah, don't apologise. Less apologising just in general. So, girls, I've absolutely loved this. Thank you. I could have done this all night, so thank you. What a nice day, everybody.

1:18:06And congratulations, 100. Congratulations to all of us. Don't forget to follow us on Apple and Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts to make sure that you don't miss out because next time I'm going to be talking to another incredible lady who launched. If, like me, you're a watcher, then please follow us on YouTube and don't forget to like and subscribe.