Alain de Botton: Happiness Only Lasts 15 Minutes. Stop Trying to Make It Permanent.

0:01This is a Be Well Moment, the most replayed moments from my latest conversation. It's a glimpse into the wider episode, which you can find linked in the show notes below. Because sometimes one small moment is enough to reconnect to living well and being well.

0:22What's the most important quality of a friend?

0:25Alain de Botton:I think being able to go to the dark places with you in a way that's upbeat, kind, broadly on the side of the sunlight, but really going to the dark places. We all want that friend, we can call it three in the morning, and go, I'm not in a good place. And that they won't panic. Some people panic, that's not helpful. They go like, oh my God, I love you so much, I can't bear that you're suffering. That's no use. That's not helpful. You don't want that. You know, I mean, bless them. They're only trying to help. But there are these people who lose it when, you know, you want people who are calm and you want people go, broadly speaking, I got it.

1:03Alain de Botton:You know, first of all, it'll be OK. And even if it's not OK, it'll be OK because everything's OK. The worst that can happen is we die. It's the very worst thing. So don't worry. At worst, you're going to die. And I'm here. And I'm here. And it's no surprise. Welcome to being human. That's the kind of voice we need. and you know we talk about achievement and people you know founders a lot of founders and they're launching a tech company and they've raised 300 million in their first thing bless them but can they fuck off as well because really the real achievement in life is three good friends if you've got three good friends you've met i mean bless you for doing your a round and your b round and you know i'm being facetious but but that's not that's not real achievement real achievement is three good friends you can call in the middle of the night then you've made it if you do that and float your company then you're really swimming but then you're really swimming well i mean oh there's so many things i want to ask you in that question sorry i'm really trying um that was there's a lot of moments i think where we look at life on achievements we talk about work-life balance um simon sinek taught me a lot about friendships when he came on this show talking about people that sit in the mud with you i loved that phrase and terminology that he used and he He taught something to me that I really used through the last year of my life, which was eight minutes.

2:23Have you heard of this? So a lot of us, especially being English, maybe this is like a broad generalization, but can feel burden to call our friends and say, we really, really need you. And sometimes you might go around it in a quite hard way to show that we're struggling. So maybe say, are you free for dinner next week? Or can I see you? that's not really you know you're not a mind reader so no one really knows that's a cry for help and he had this situation where a friend of him a friend of his had text him and said can I see you anyway a couple of weeks had gone on and when he saw her she said oh I really was going through a hard time and he said well why didn't you why didn't you tell me she said what I did tried to text you I was like well where and he looked at his phone and it was just very average text messages like are you around can i see you and he was like this this is a cry for help i don't know that and they came up with an amazing theory of eight minutes so just text me eight minutes because in those eight minutes whatever i'm doing i can have eight minutes of time and i can dedicate an hour to you maybe later on in the evening but i can be there to answer that phone call because i know that i can step out of an interview out of a boardroom out of whatever to give that person eight minutes of space and i've actually used that where i haven't wanted to explain and say i'm having a really really hard time i really need you to call me it's a simple eight minutes which i think is really interesting concept yeah i mean look i

3:55Alain de Botton:think the greatest gift you can give a friend is to bring them a need to be able to say to them I'm in a bit of difficulty I'd really like to speak to you it's amazing the number of friendships where that never happens if you do that with someone it does something very important it allows them to do it back if ever they need to do it it's open that door you've done it for them oh sorry they've done it for you so you will do it for them it's a reciprocity and to get it going why don't you do it as it were even if it's you know you could even act it out a little bit it doesn't need to be as urgent but just to say, I'm feeling a bit low, I'd love to have a chat.

4:37Alain de Botton:You know, particularly men. I mean, the average man never says that to his friends. Never, ever. But how wonderful to be able to say to a friend, I'm actually feeling a bit low and, you know, would you like a chat? I mean, you know, eight minutes, sure, great. It's a nice thing. Why not just try? I'm feeling a bit low. Do you have time for a chat anytime? Simple as that. That is a gift because it opens up the possibility for mutual vulnerability and mutual pain. I put something on my Instagram yesterday and one of your posts about work-life balance. I've been struggling a lot with this concept of work-life balance.

5:17And so you spoke about friendships there, you know, having three core friends is really important for, I guess, a life well lived. To feel supported, to have community, to feel heard, to feel seen. to feel seen I think is one of the most important things in life I think a lot of people might go through and have friendships but never feel truly seen then we come into this concept of the work life balance trying to balance your friendships maybe a romantic relationship a career I mean as a woman you have like another extension of being a mother and a family and also not losing that autonomy over your career how like is there a thing of work life balance does it even exist

5:56Alain de Botton:Look, I think we have to think about how we imagine a good life. Most of us, if you look at it meteorologically, imagine a blue sky. We imagine that a good life is one where there is a permanent blue sky. And we think right now there's problems, but soon I'm going to get to that blue sky. And I think we have to accept a more complicated, nuanced picture. If you live in a northern climate like the UK, or if you live in Seattle or something, you'll know that there are breaks in the clouds, but there are always clouds. Even on a sunny day, you will get some clouds. That's a much more accurate picture of actually what life is like.

6:31Alain de Botton:We're made of moods. We're not made of stone. We're not made of arguments. We're not made of silicon. We are made of moods. We're made of water and fog. And our moods are constantly shifting from one thing to another. If you're in a good mood for 15 minutes, good for you. A bad one will come along later. If you're feeling serene and calm in the evening, you will feel agitated and nauseous at another point. It's nothing to do with you. It's the way we're built. We're constantly cycling through emotions. And I think we long too much and unhelpfully for an idea of reaching a state of eternal, solid calm.

7:05Alain de Botton:We have to embrace the mobility and the kind of roiling quality of our moods. So if you're having a working life that's complicated, a personal life that's complicated, of course you're going to be up and down and sideways and roundabout all the time. And rather than fighting about that and thinking something's gone wrong, no, this is just a sign that you're human. Happiness comes in 15-minute bursts. If things are feeling more or less settled, don't worry, they will feel unsettled soon. It's just the norm. and if they're feeling totally unsettled and you think it's the end, don't worry. It will become a more hopeful moment.

7:43Alain de Botton:It's just the way we built up and down, up and down, up and down. That's the way we built. Thank you for listening to this Be Well Moment. If it resonated, the full conversation is linked in the show notes. And I hope it gave you a small pause to take a moment for you and to reconnect to living well and being well. if you loved it please do leave a review follow the show or share this maybe with someone you love