Why You Still Can’t Orgasm (The Step-By-Step Guide) | Dr. Laurie Mintz, Sex Therapist

21:47Sarah Ann Macklin:So when young women come to talk to me from maybe like 17, 18 to 25, 28, 30, they're not having orgasms. and they feel broken and they don't know, either they don't know about their clitoris or they know about it, they have orgasms during masturbation, but they're like afraid to tell their partners or they tell partners who say things like, well, all my other girlfriends came that way, you know, and they feel broken and they don't know how to communicate. And so it's really orgasm issues, communication issues, empowerment, feeling confident in their bodies um then when i start seeing women maybe i'm just making up ages because it's very you know i i've also seen 56 year old women who've never orgasmed but this is this is a generalization when i see women in the sort of i have young children in a job phase they their complaint is i don't care if i ever have sex again i'm too tired i'm too exhausted My desire is gone.

22:59Sarah Ann Macklin:I'm never horny anymore. And then when I see older women who are going through perimenopause and menopause, they're saying sex hurts. But nobody's told them, well, that's because your estrogen has decreased and you need a prescription for vaginal estrogen, you know. So it really, but every single stage of women's lives, every single stage, there is something cultural that is leading women to have worse sex than men.

23:34Dr. Laurie Mintz:Makes me so sad to hear this, but not because we're going to, we are going to change that today. So you have a whole section. I think the most important thing is to talk about masturbation. men talk about this really freely and openly and it's quite normal and I don't think women do at all and you have a whole chapter by saying like we kind of need to start there and it's interesting when I asked Google and ChatGPT I was like what's the most common question that women and men ask the number one was how do women orgasm it's still the number one most searched. And then the next one was how many women cannot orgasm?

24:14Dr. Laurie Mintz:And then why can I not orgasm, which is the woman.

24:18Sarah Ann Macklin:Wow, we got to answer all those and clear this off.

24:23Dr. Laurie Mintz:And there were so many more, obviously, that we're going to go through. But it was interesting. I was like, this is obviously what most people are trying to get from Google and track GPT. So you have a whole thing in your book with women saying you need to start exploring yourself first so let's start there i mean we've already seen the clitoris and understanding that's kind of like the power house stimulation mitochondria of the cell um but what's next like how do women not feel ashamed how do women feel comfortable doing it not stigmatized like talk women through this who are listening as someone who has spent a long time studying the mind body connection i'm constantly ask what do I use to track my health.

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26:31Dr. Laurie Mintz:And this little gadget helps you on your journey.

26:36Sarah Ann Macklin:First of all, I'm so glad you asked that. Masturbation is the most important thing a woman can do. And the research is so clear. It is the first step to being orgasmic. Women need to masturbate. It's the most empirically, scientifically supported technique. And it feels great. and it's going to give you orgasms and pleasure and make you sleep. We've been talking about a lot of negative stuff. This is positive stuff. Like this feels good. So, and a lot of times it is like scary. You've been told not to do it. So, you know, start slow, right? Understand that women have been doing this for centuries, forever.

27:20Sarah Ann Macklin:There's no harm in it. In fact, it's extremely healthy. In fact, I, you know, sometimes like I, if someone's hesitant, I'll like make a little prescription pad and say, this is your doctor's orders. Go home and masturbate. It's so healthy. So women really need to know this is a way to say, I am empowered. I love myself. I love my body. And I'm going to make myself feel good. And then, you know, first of all, it's I really recommend people getting a picture and looking at themselves so they know what they're touching and they know how beautiful their vulva is. Every vulva is beautiful. It's like a snowflake.

28:02Sarah Ann Macklin:Even identical twins don't have identical vulvas. They're like they're such a beautiful part of you. But so get to know it, you know, get a diagram, identify the parts and then put your hands down there. See what feels good. And I'm going to go over some common things that feel good. A lot of women like to rub circles on the clitoral hood, either directly or through panties. A lot of women like to rub to the side because the hood and glands. And you're stimulating the internal clitoris. This is the mons pubis. It's where your hair starts. A lot of women like to squeeze there. Why? Because the legs of the clitoris run through there.

28:45Sarah Ann Macklin:A lot of women like to rub up and down. And, you know, you can try to, that's a great place to practice mindfulness. There's no one else to monitor. How are they thinking? How are they feeling? It's just you and you. So it's a great place to really learn to focus on sensations. And use some lube because vulvas are not most meant to be touched dry. And just have fun. You don't have to have the goal of orgasming, but most people will if they touch and figure out what they like. But then, number one suggestion, get a clitoral vibrator. There was a study with anorgasmic women. There's been a lot of studies, actually.

29:34Sarah Ann Macklin:Women who'd never had an orgasm gave them knowledge of their bodies, a clitoral vibrator. 93 % became orgasmic pretty immediately. These are the best tools. Doctors are prescribing them. Here's something that wasn't in the book that's been discovered since the book came out. We have special corpuscles in our vulvas that respond exactly to vibration. So, and they're in our fingers too. They're not on our forehead. This turns on. Can you hear it? Yeah, well, I love this as you're airing. Yeah. So I'm going to ask you to do it too, if you would. Yeah. Okay. Hold that to your forehead. See if you feel it.

30:18Dr. Laurie Mintz:Oh, yeah.

30:19Sarah Ann Macklin:Okay.

30:20Dr. Laurie Mintz:So I've got it on my forehead right now.

30:22Sarah Ann Macklin:Okay. Does it feel? How does it feel? Is it kind of relaxed? Okay. Now put it on your fingertip. Okay. Does it feel more intense?

30:36Sarah Ann Macklin:No. It doesn't to me. It doesn't. Okay, put it a little higher up on your forehead. Yeah.

30:45Sarah Ann Macklin:Okay. So up here, we don't have very many of those corpuscles. So you probably just felt buzzing. But on your finger, you might feel more. Well, there's tons of these on the vulva, tons of them. And so basically, most women who use clitoral vibrators orgasm, where do you use it? on the hood, to the side, on the lips. And guess what? Penises have these core muscles too. So when I tell men, if she uses a vibrator while your penis is parked anywhere down there, you're going to catch what I call vicarious vibrations because your penis has these receptors too. And you're going to love it. In fact, we're starting to make sex toys for erectile dysfunction.

31:38Sarah Ann Macklin:with vibration. The penis and the clitoris love vibration. And, you know, women who use vibrators have more orgasms, easier orgasms. They have more life satisfaction. They have less depression. Women whose male partners like their vibrator use are more sexually satisfied. And there was one study, I love this study, they gave vibrators to men who'd never use one with a woman. They They said use it twice a week for four months. Then they interviewed them. The men said it was really exciting for novelty's sake. It was really exciting because she got more excited. It was really exciting because I felt the vibrations on my penis.

32:21Sarah Ann Macklin:And it enhanced our intimacy because we had to talk about it. Wow. Yeah. So I'm like a massive vibrator fan.

32:29Dr. Laurie Mintz:I know. I love it. You've got earrings as vibrators. Yes. It's incredible. It's like travel with pleasure. Exactly. I love it and you also have a vulva nexus I do yes these are amazing yes so so on brand Lauren I love it thank you like there's there's quite a lot that I want to talk about with vibrators I've never said that on this podcast in my life so we better start now but it's interesting I think a lot of men and you mention it in your book can be worried about vibrators replacing them or, you know, a bit worried that they're not the ones making a woman orgasm. Like how can we help men feel more secure in an environment for a woman to bring this into their relationship?

33:15Sarah Ann Macklin:Absolutely. So a lot of men are threatened because they think it's their job to give a woman an orgasm with their penis. So let's break that down. First of all, you're very few women you're going to give it through your penis. and it's nobody's job to give anyone else an orgasm. We all are responsible for our own pleasure. And this also isn't in the book, but think about intercourse. Men can adjust their thrusting based on immediate sensory feedback. Oh, I want to thrust a little harder, a little shallower, a little, like you get sensory feedback and you respond to it. There is no sex act where women can respond to their own sensory feedback unless they're touching themselves with their hand or a vibrator while their partner touches their breasts, during intercourse.

34:13Sarah Ann Macklin:So it gives the woman the power that men have over their bodies. And if men really need to understand that their job is not to make a woman orgasm, but to make her feel safe enough that she feels comfortable sharing how she orgasms, that's the job. Not to give her one. To make her feel safe. And it's no less sex for the women out there if you touch yourself. It's a most many women, it's the only way they can. And think about this metaphor. I like to share this. If you were on a raft in a swimming pool and you were with your partner and you had a lovely day, you were kissing in the pool, you were kissing on the raft, you were laughing, you just had a grand old time.

35:02Sarah Ann Macklin:You wouldn't go home and call your friend and go, oh, me and my raft had so much fun. Oh, and my boyfriend was there too. You wouldn't even mention the raft because it was just a tool to enhance your shared experience. And that's the same with vibrators.

35:21Dr. Laurie Mintz:Wow. I mean, I found it fascinating in your book when you talked about how they came about, vibrators, the rise of vibrators, basically from the Victorian era. Can you just touch upon the hysteria of women?

35:37Sarah Ann Macklin:I can, but unfortunately that's been proven to be false. Has it? Yes. Oh, my God. I know. I love the story. The story is amazing. I know. I know. But apparently it's not true. There was a whole book on this that I read to put it in there. And that book's been proven false. So I can't. It's not true. It's not true. That's the one part of the book that's not true. Everything else is true. Okay.

36:05Dr. Laurie Mintz:Well, just to continue this on myth. It was literally men. Women didn't think they could orgasm, and they would go to the doctors, and a doctor would basically perform an orgasm on a woman.

36:17Sarah Ann Macklin:Yes, to cure her hysteria, and then the doctor's hands were getting tired, so they invented the vibrator. But it's not true. That's not true. But what is true is that these have been around for a long time, and they used to be advertised in women's magazines as household tools, like disguised. But women knew what they were all along, like massagers and, you know, that kind of thing.

36:46Dr. Laurie Mintz:That is amazing. Well, I was literally looking on a delivery app. I don't know if you have Zapp in America, but in the UK. And literally, as I was going through my groceries, then there was just these vibrators that were coming up. They were like on delivery. Really? And I was like, wow, this feels like an advancement. Yeah, it is. Like milk vibrator.

37:08Sarah Ann Macklin:I've never, well, gotten them at the same store in the U.S., but that's fabulous.

37:14Dr. Laurie Mintz:It's amazing. So one thing that was in your book that I speak a little about fertility on this show, and I think there's like a lot of myths that you need an orgasm to get pregnant. What I'm hearing is that it's just pure pleasure.

37:30Sarah Ann Macklin:Yeah. Well, first of all, if you needed an orgasm to get pregnant, we'd have a lot fewer kids.

37:41Sarah Ann Macklin:You know, so, I mean, we'd have a lot more kids. You know, you got my point, right? I got your point. Yeah. So there's, where that myth comes from is there's a lot of theories. Why do women orgasm? And one of the theories is that the orgasm helps the sperm go up. because remember the orgasm is the rhythmic contraction of the pelvic floor. So if it's contracting, it's going to upsuck the sperm and it's going to go up faster. That's one theory that that's why women orgasm. There's other theories like it's for bonding. There's another, there's a book that kind of broke down all these theories and she basically said it's just an accident of development.

38:37Sarah Ann Macklin:You know, men got nipples and breasts because we need them to breastfeed. Women got orgasms because men need them to make babies. However, there's two new theories that I love that I think they're so much fun. One is that there are some animals that have their clitoris inside their vagina. And they would orgasm through penetration. And the orgasm would spur ovulation. And so that's, you know, it was very helpful for that. But then the theory goes when we started living in groups and everybody's having sex with everybody else, We can't be ovulating all the time. So our clitoris migrated outside of our bodies and our orgasms became separate than ovulation.

39:32Sarah Ann Macklin:That's one new theory. And here's the theory. I love it all the best. That instead of asking what's the function of women's orgasm, if we ask the question, why don't women orgasm from penetration? that the answer is to help them pick a good partner because a partner who is going to ask about and be attentive to your pleasure, even though it's not from the same act as his pleasure, a partner who's good in bed is going to be a better partner outside the bedroom.

40:07Dr. Laurie Mintz:100 % agree. I mean, communication is the key for every part of a relationship, including sex.

40:13Sarah Ann Macklin:Everything. It all comes down to communication. I had a client. I love this quote. Obviously, I can't say her name to credit her. But after learning communication, sexual in general, she came back to my office and she said, I really get it. Communication is the bedrock to make my bedrock. Sounds like a Flintstones quote.

40:37Dr. Laurie Mintz:Yeah, it does.

40:42Dr. Laurie Mintz:It's true. I love that. I think we, maybe I'm speaking for like a lot of people around me that I know, but we're never really taught communication styles properly. We're taught so much in school, but like emotional health, communication styles, self-worth, sex, intimacy, we're just not, we don't speak about it. And so unless you have, I guess, parents that are very open in this area, I mean, my mum worked in sexual health, so she was actually quite good at trying to have conversations with me. Not to this extent, but she didn't try and make the whole thing a taboo. And I guess she saw so many things in her clinic that, you know, things became quite normalized.

41:29Dr. Laurie Mintz:But unless we have these conversations, it's really hard to have these conversations when you get into a relationship. relationship so how what advice do you give to couples that come to you to have healthy

41:41Sarah Ann Macklin:conversations around sex yes I'm so first of all I'm so glad you got that training you know and I wish every woman did and it communication is I have never ever I'm going to make a strong statement and then I'll answer your question I have never ever ever worked with a couple in therapy and I've been a therapist for over 35 years now. I have never worked with an individual or a couple for whom bad or faulty communication didn't contribute to their problem and for whom good communication didn't help solve their problem ever. I mean, it's so key and we're not taught it. So what do I tell people?

42:25Sarah Ann Macklin:First of all, I say sexual communication is just a subset of general communication. Let's learn the skills of communicating generally. There are some very important skills, which I can go over if you want. So we teach those. And then let's apply that to the bedroom and make sex a conversation that happens like us at the table. Let's make it one that happens before sex, during sex, after sex. Like make sex as comfortable and clear and everyday part of your communication as what do you want to do for dinner tonight? So how do we like what are these skills? So for general communication, my top three are don't ask questions that aren't questions.

43:18Sarah Ann Macklin:I can't tell you how much things go downhill. when people do that. Like, be direct. Yes. Like, if you say to me, where do you want to go to dinner, Lori? And I say, Chinese food. And you say, I actually want pizza. It's like, then I'm sitting here going, well, why didn't she just tell me what she wanted? You know, or I never forget this example. Someone, I was a couple met in my office and they sat down and she looked at him and she He said, did you get a haircut? Obviously, she knew he got a haircut. It comes out as a criticism or unclear. And you know what the most non-questioned question of all is?

44:02Sarah Ann Macklin:Do you want to have sex? Nobody's just curious. You either mean I do, and I hope you do, or I don't, and I hope you don't too. So stop asking questions that aren't. Own your stuff. Use I statements. It's kinder. It's kinder to say, hey, Sarah, I want to go to Chinese tonight. You know, it's a kinder. And then communicate about communication. Give a compass to the conversation. You know, like, I want to talk to you about something and I'm really scared you're going to get defensive. Please try not to. I'm telling you this because I love you. Or if it starts going downhill in the middle, like, hang on.

44:45Sarah Ann Macklin:Like, I don't like the way that we're going here. I want us to get closer, you know. And also, if you do have a disagreement, fight to get closer. Disagree to get closer, not to win or lose an argument. And remember to respect the other person. Find the grain of truth in what they say. So those are the basics. But then communicate at the kitchen table. Just talk about sex before sex. What do you want to do tonight? Are we going to be kinky or vanilla? Like setting boundaries. Talking during sex. Faster, slower, no right there, keep going. I want to get on top, you know. And then communicate after sex.

45:30Sarah Ann Macklin:How was that for you? How could it have been better? Without defensiveness, learn from it. And you cannot solve sexual problems without communication. And that shouldn't be done in the bedroom. You go to the kitchen table or a walk, talk about it. It's part of your life. And what we know is when couples are sexually satisfied, they're more relationally satisfied. They have more life satisfaction. And when sex is going good, people don't think about it. It doesn't take up a ton of brain space. I mean, it does some. But when sex is going bad, it takes up an enormous amount of brain space. And it's so painful.

46:10Sarah Ann Macklin:and the only way to solve sexual problems is to talk about it. Talk about the elephant in the room.

46:17Dr. Laurie Mintz:Yes, exactly, exactly. Because it's interesting because I obviously, I read in the book and it was also a question on, it was number 10, most Google questions, why do women fake orgasms? And I guess that's also a disservice to the relationship because a woman also feels that she maybe can't communicate and so she kind of keeps herself hidden But the man thinks, oh, well, she's doing great. But you say, you know, a lot of women don't come through penetration. And if they do, then they're probably lying. The majority, not all.

46:50Sarah Ann Macklin:Not all, but the majority. But the majority. 96%.

46:54Dr. Laurie Mintz:So that is a really clear, like, be direct. I guess have empathy is also a big one, right? To one another. Huge. And find the grain of truth because everyone sees things in their own narratives and in different forms. And also like create a scheduled time place to feel safe to have this conversation is what I'm hearing. But if people are still not bringing this up and still feeling that they're struggling, do you think it's worth going to see a therapist one on one so they can build their confidence in conversation?

47:29Sarah Ann Macklin:I mean, because that's what I do and I believe in it and I've seen people change. Like if and do it early, don't let it resentments bubble and build. Go see a therapist yourself with your partner, someone who's really good at communication, who's certified in sex therapy and talk about things. And, you know, also this question of faking when women are asked why they do it to make their partner feel good, to protect his ego or because they want sex to end because it's boring or painful. Those are the top two reasons. And they're doing a disservice. They're teaching their partner to do exactly what doesn't work for them.

48:11Sarah Ann Macklin:But I've also gotten this question once. I gave a public lecture, and this woman raised her hand, and she said, Okay, Lori, I get it, but I've been faking for 30 years. Now what do I do? And at that point, there is something called compassionate omission. Like if she'd have gone home and said, Hey, honey, I've been faking for 30 years, he would understandably feel betrayed without understanding that she was doing it because she didn't have the knowledge and she was trying to take care of him. So instead, I recommended that she say, I went to this lecture and I learned that women's orgasms are really enhanced and they feel different and they feel better if she touches her clitoris during intercourse.

49:01Sarah Ann Macklin:and I want to try that. What do you think? And I don't know how it turned out because it was a public lecture but I do know that that's worked for clients too.

49:13Dr. Laurie Mintz:Right. Yeah. Well, I guess that also creates safety in the relationship, right? Rather than a huge 30-year, not betrayal because it's not, but I guess at the same point, like for her, that also might affect her then to feel that she can orgasm because she's got that guilt on her mind or worry.

49:33Sarah Ann Macklin:Exactly, exactly. So start. It's so scary because we're taught not to talk about it, but not talking about it causes so many problems.

49:43Dr. Laurie Mintz:We really are. And I know it's because of the knowledge gap and patriarchy and all of those things, but it's just really sad. it's really sad that it feels stigmatized to talk about this for women it is really sad it is really

50:05Sarah Ann Macklin:really sad I couldn't agree with you more and I do think we can change it and it's one woman at a time talking to their partners and I'm curious if you find this like I find women talk to other women. Well, I was going to say this.

50:22Dr. Laurie Mintz:Do men talk to men as much? Because I obviously know that women are very close in their friendships. You know, I speak to my girlfriends all the time and, you know, their partners say, well, we don't speak as often to my guy mates as you girls do at all. So we're way more communicative with our girlfriends. I'm wondering on the sex side of things, how that translates. Yeah.

50:48Sarah Ann Macklin:What I see, and I haven't read the research on this, but what I see is women are talking to other women about sex. And while that can feel nice and you get support, it's not going to solve your sex problems unless your friend says, hey, maybe you should talk to your partner, you know? And in a way, you know, I think we need to reframe the whole thing that telling someone what you want and need rather than having them guess is the kindest, most respectful, most connecting thing you can do. In any part of your relationship. Absolutely. Not just sex.

51:31Dr. Laurie Mintz:No. I think your standards, your values are so integral to having a good relationship. I've made so many mistakes in my life in past relationships when I haven't understood what I value and what I want and then I've become and this isn't in like the in the bedroom this is just in the relationship in general and you kind of become a bit of a chameleon where you're like oh well that person's likes that likes this so I should be you know enjoying those things more you know and I don't want to go and watch sport on a weekend that's not my thing you know and I think having your values that are aligned and your boundaries in a relationship are so important.

52:12Dr. Laurie Mintz:And to communicate those, you know, now I think it's really important to sit down with your partner and say, these are my values or virtues. And are these yours? You know, do you have the same actions as you're telling me? Because if you don't, then you're on such different playing fields.

52:28Sarah Ann Macklin:Absolutely. I think, I mean, you said that beautifully. And isn't it so sad? like if this kind of stuff was taught, like you said earlier in school, we'd have much healthier relationships, much happier people, you know, and women are socialized to be a bit of a chameleon. It's sort of ingrained in us to be pleasing others, monitoring the environment, to see what others want. And then it takes a toll.

53:00Dr. Laurie Mintz:Oh yeah, but you lose your sense of self. Absolutely. And that kills the relationship because then you just feel unsatisfied. Exactly. But it's nothing that the other person's doing. It's because you've not taken your own respect to kind of ingrain in that relationship what your needs are.

53:16Sarah Ann Macklin:Exactly. And it's so much easier said than done, but it is so worth it. I mean, it is so worth it. And just like this in general and sex, you know, you're fighting against years of socialization. but look not everything you're taught is right or healthy you know so you have to learn things and implement them to grow and to have better relationships yeah i completely agree i think

53:46Dr. Laurie Mintz:like you said really and in the beginning you know the female orgasm or just sex in general has changed a lot and i think you know a lot of people now are maybe exploring sexuality a lot more people feel more accepted we're still not fully there especially in parts of america but people feeling more accepted to be themselves and find their groups and their communities and sexuality in whatever way serves them if i think about like the victorian era where everyone was pretty liberal like what happened because there was a time when it was very open and very free I would say and it didn't feel as stigmatized maybe I'm completely wrong but it does feel as you said it's gone through these moments where it's open and closed again open and closed again why I wish I knew but

54:45Sarah Ann Macklin:it does happen. Things go in cycles. And, you know, and we're in a cycle right now where there's a lot of repression and a lot of shame and a lot of fear. And, you know, if I think back, not even to the Victorian era, like the, at least in the U.S., like the 60s, right? Like free love and all that. But what's really interesting is that that era in the U.S., It told women it's OK to have intercourse before marriage. That was really the message. You don't have to be a virgin. But even then, nobody was saying, oh, and you should have pleasure, too. Like it didn't do. There was nothing that was making these sexual experiences at any era that I'm aware of equally pleasurable for women and men.

55:35Sarah Ann Macklin:That's been the missing piece no matter how free our sexual norms are. Wow.

55:43Dr. Laurie Mintz:It's I hope from this podcast, this podcast gets shared to so many men and women to like feel connected to this part with like your lectures when you obviously like span them out. Are some people like shocked by the information that they're hearing that when you're saying it or most people quite connected to this?

56:05Sarah Ann Macklin:It's changed over the years, and that's been really interesting. When I first decided to write my book, people were like shocked. They didn't know about the clitoris. They thought they were broken. Now when I teach it, what's really interesting, people have heard of the clitoris. They've heard of the orgasm gap. They've heard all this, but they've never taken the leap to apply it to their own sex life. they have the general knowledge is more there, but the how does this impact me in the bedroom is still not widely known. And that's the communication part.

56:46Dr. Laurie Mintz:That's the biggest part. It's interesting that it feels like the communication is the hardest part of all of this. Because I guess with communication, people can feel very vulnerable and you can feel very exposed by speaking your truth. And so sometimes it can be easier to not do that. Yeah.

57:04Sarah Ann Macklin:It's self-protective, you know. And for some women, and I've talked to some women who said, well, you know, that's it's not safe for me to be open and vulnerable. You know, that's scary to hear.

57:16Dr. Laurie Mintz:That's really scary because that feels like they're not with the right. As you said, the right person is the one who wants to communicate and understand this with you.

57:23Sarah Ann Macklin:Yeah, exactly. And then, you know, women also say it's really hard in hookups to communicate. you know that's the hardest thing you know because you don't hardly know the person and but that's where the orgasm gap is the biggest right and and you know someone someone in my class said well of course women aren't going to orgasm like in hookups like you know it takes a while to get a know a woman's body and I'm like well that that that that argument doesn't work for me then why are men having orgasms like it's because the culture revolves around it so what I I tell young women who are hooking up, who are afraid to talk, bring your vibrator.

58:05Sarah Ann Macklin:Let your vibrator do the talking. Bring it with you in a packet of lube. Because it says my pleasure is important without speaking a word. That's quite a bold statement.

58:19Dr. Laurie Mintz:Hang on one second. I love that. But it is empowerment. I'd love if they turned up with vibrator earrings on a date.

58:32Sarah Ann Macklin:After taking my class, one young woman wrote in her dating profile, like, I don't know, Hinge or Bumble or, I don't know, Tinder, whatever. She wrote, I'm into closing the orgasm gap. And she said she got a lot of questions, like, as people were chatting back and forth, what does that mean? And she would write, it means my orgasm is as important as yours. And she said one man wrote back and said, well, that's a lot of pressure. And she said, it's actually no pressure at all. It just means you need to be comfortable with me bringing my vibrator. Wow. Okay, that's cool.

59:09Dr. Laurie Mintz:Again, going back to that men think it's all about only them having to give the orgasm. Yeah. Which again is like incorrect. Exactly. It's both of you. Yes, exactly. What was your favorite part of this book when you were writing it? What was your favorite chapter?

59:26Sarah Ann Macklin:Oh, that's such a great question. I think my favorite chapter was the language chapter. When I sort of, I mean, all of it was fun to write. And there was also a ton of tears writing. I can tell you which chapter made me cry the most as well. But the chapter I think I really enjoyed writing the most was looking at the language we use and how that really undervalues women's pleasure. And it's so insidious. The stuff I talked about earlier. I think that was my favorite chapter to write.

59:59Dr. Laurie Mintz:And talk to me again about the language. I'm trying to find where, which one this is.

1:00:03Sarah Ann Macklin:Like how we use the word sex and intercourse. Oh, yeah. They're the same. And they're not. And they're not. How we use the word vagina. I think that was my favorite to write because it was really, I just found it really, but I liked writing it all. I liked the masturbation chapter. I really liked writing the partnered sex chapter where it was like, OK, this is sort of the culmination. How do you apply all this to partnered sex?

1:00:29Dr. Laurie Mintz:Yeah, I think that's essential.

1:00:31Sarah Ann Macklin:Yeah.

1:00:31Dr. Laurie Mintz:I think every man needs to read this book. I mean, I told my team afterwards if they want to have continued having healthy marriages, they should all buy this book.

1:00:38Sarah Ann Macklin:Oh, amazing. To read. Thank you. I had an 80-year-old man tell me if I had read your book, I wouldn't have been divorced twice. Wow. That is a statement. Yeah, I was like, I'm sorry you didn't have it, but thank you. I mean, which one made you cry? The anatomy chapter. I cried so hard. Why? Because I could not find accurate information, and I found contradictory information. It was so hard to actually figure out women's anatomy. And then I called my editor. I was literally crying. And I said, I can't write this book because I can't find the information. Like does the inner lips, one source says it attaches in two places.

1:01:28Sarah Ann Macklin:Another says it attaches in one. I literally was with my mirror and told my research assistants they had to go look at themselves with a mirror. The pictures of the internal clitoris, some of the balls were worms, some were balloons. I was like, if I don't know what's true, how can I put this in a book? And she was so brilliant. She said, that is exactly the reason we need this book. And you need to just explain to readers that you think everything that you're writing is true, but we don't have all the knowledge. And in fact, the first MRI of the internal clitoris wasn't even done until 2004. so of course but I of course you know here I am I teach women empowerment and confidence and I did the same thing right I was like this is all my fault I can't figure this out what's wrong with me I can't do this instead of going oh take a step back you can't figure it out because the science isn't there yet and you're reading contradictory information

1:02:39Dr. Laurie Mintz:well now we're not contradicted now i feel like we all know honestly i have sent this to so many people and i think you know for me i hope there was just so many amazing parts of this of this book that kind of should be given out in sex education to like i think it just does create a lot of empowerment for a woman but i also think it creates a lot of empowerment for a man You know, this isn't just a book for women to read. Obviously, I'm such a supporter of women. But also, I think men can also be massive supporters of women. And we only solve this problem by both sexes getting on board.

1:03:19Sarah Ann Macklin:Absolutely. And that's why I have this summary chapter for men is, you know, you know, the whole culture is set up for men to know about their sexuality. And some of that's the way our bodies are. I mean, men touch their penises because they get potty trained because the penis has the function of urination and pleasure. Can you imagine a little boy not knowing the name of his penis by age 10? most women don't even learn the name of their clitoris until their 20s, 30s. And some of it, yes, it's less visible, but most of it is cultural silence. And so everybody's growing up with this huge lack of knowledge that is affecting everybody.

1:04:07Dr. Laurie Mintz:Yeah, men and women. Absolutely. And as you said, it was interesting to hear about the mental health effect on women as well. you know because I think we kind of forget this is all meant to create more intimacy more pleasure more dopamine more oxytocin like all of the great things that everyone wants to feel and that bonds relationships and if we're not having that we're not figuring out why there does become a huge disparity there becomes a disconnection and sadly we're so disconnected from our bodies now more than ever before because of social media and constant stimulation. And so I think that this is an antidote.

1:04:49Sarah Ann Macklin:Absolutely. Yeah. Like giving yourself pleasure. It says, I love myself. I'm empowered. And also it can help you learn to be mindful. Like, cause if you learn to, like, if you learn to focus on your body and your sensations during sex, like that can apply to daily life. When you're stressed, you do the mindfulness thing, you breathe, like it's, it's all interconnected, you know? And the other thing I, I was surprised because I did think I was writing a book on women's sexual empowerment. That's what I aimed to do. But I had so many women tell me after I got empowered in the bedroom, I was unstoppable outside the bedroom.

1:05:33Sarah Ann Macklin:That if I could do this in the hardest place to do it, then it gave me confidence in the rest of my life. Sex isn't this thing that's separate from the rest of your life.

1:05:44Dr. Laurie Mintz:Well, I think, and I didn't ask this question, you said it right at the beginning. And I think it's really important that we don't finish this without asking. You were saying there's two components. And the second component is the mind. now I can imagine for so many women that are struggling to orgasm maybe don't have a communicative partner feel generally shame or stigmatized maybe for something from their upbringing when they were told it was wrong or it was bad all of these negative thoughts that go in in people's minds is one thing that's stopping them orgasm as you said they've got to feel relaxed and clear that like the normal thing is to say I don't want to have these thoughts but it doesn't work So like, how do you get out of that momentum?

1:06:30Sarah Ann Macklin:Yeah. Thoughts are so important. And there's two ways we have to approach sexual thoughts. One is the shameful negative thoughts, like you were talking about. Sex is bad. Sex is dirty. You know, internalized slut shaming. So those we really do need to counter with sex positive messages. Like, no, sex is wonderful. It's a wonderful part of life. It's your right. In fact, the World Health Organization says sexual pleasure is a fundamental human right. So really combating those negative thoughts. That's one piece. But the other piece, so thinking sex positive thoughts instead of sex negative thoughts when you're not having sex.

1:07:15Sarah Ann Macklin:But then the harder part is turning off your brain when you are having sex. I mean, so many women, maybe they are getting clitoral stimulation. I think of a woman who is getting really good oral sex from her partner because she couldn't orgasm because she was thinking, do I smell okay? Do I look okay? Am I taking too long? Well, you're not going to orgasm when your mind is full. So the key is learning mindfulness, which is putting your mind and body in the same place. and the best way to learn that is daily life and this and no you don't have to sit and meditate forever I mean it is great to meditate but think about this the next time you brush your teeth that's like two minutes if you do the whole thing right there's a lot of sensation there's the feeling of the toothbrush in your mouth there's the taste of the toothpaste there's the suds and we usually just do it mindlessly.

1:08:17Sarah Ann Macklin:So instead, focus on the body sensations, focus on the feelings. And when your mind wanders, and it will, because that's what our minds do, bring it back to sensation. That's the key. And the more you do this, and you can do it washing your hands, taking a walk, anything that involves sensation. And the quicker you learn to notice, oh, there she goes, mind, come back without judging and bring it back to sensations. That's mindfulness. And some mindfulness gurus, I love this, they even say that thoughts are a byproduct of the brain, just like bile is a byproduct of the gallbladder. We can't help it, but that helps us get not attached to it and not go down this story.

1:09:07Sarah Ann Macklin:Notice and bring it back to sensation in daily life. And then when you're in the bedroom, you'll have mastered that skill. And then you do the same thing and maybe take some deep breaths that help center people. Maybe smelling your partner's scent, like using those same daily skills in the bedroom. And that is so scientifically proven for orgasm desire arousal.

1:09:36Dr. Laurie Mintz:And I guess taking the pressure off yourself, right? Yeah. It goes for men and women around this like whole conversation is taking pressure off because I guess the big thing is you don't have to orgasm every time. You know, the pressure to always feel that you have to have an orgasm is also pressure. And then you don't really let your mind relax.

1:09:59Sarah Ann Macklin:And that was the biggest irony for me of writing this book of trying to convey I am writing a book to empower women to orgasm but I don't want to pressure them to orgasm because that's not going to work but it is you're right you hit the nail on the head it's giving yourself the freedom to feel pleasure

1:10:19Dr. Laurie Mintz:period end of story I guess I think about that as happiness like happiness comes but sadness also comes. And so feeling that you have to be happy the whole time is also just not true and it's not human. It's not normal. That's not the norm. And you also don't understand fully the concept of happiness if you not experience sadness.

1:10:46Sarah Ann Macklin:Beautifully said. Right. Yes, exactly. We don't have to orgasm every time. We don't have to be happy. And to fully embrace our entire human experience all the complicated messy feelings all the complicated messiness of sex all the humor of it all I mean in life and in the bedroom to fully experience it all you know some encounters might not be great that doesn't mean you're a failure it just means like okay that was a bad encounter

1:11:19Dr. Laurie Mintz:how could we make it better next time how can we learn yes right because like when it doesn't feel great, there's a data point. Exactly. Exactly. And that's like a really big thing. I think about it after work. You know, if a show didn't go well, why didn't it go well? They don't all go well. There's some that don't get aired. There's some that I've not performed. There's some of the guests doesn't feel great. But it's similar to all the things we have, I feel, that you just take the data from what didn't work and try and apply it differently next time. Oh my gosh.

1:11:50Sarah Ann Macklin:I wish I I could bottle that. Like if everybody could just say it's data that I can learn from, if people would be so much less hard on themselves. I love that.

1:12:05Dr. Laurie Mintz:Thank you. I think like my thing I've learned through, especially through the show, and I sound like I'm old, but I'm not. I'm in my mid-30s, but it's compassion for my self-compassion, which is very hard for a woman because I think women are the least self-compassionate, but also as a Brit, we find that hard to resonate with. But I do think like every time we go through something that's really difficult, if we can actually just have compassion and understand that that's an amazing inflection point that we can just gain knowledge from, we can do it so much better next time.

1:12:39Sarah Ann Macklin:Wow. Wouldn't the world be better if everybody learned that and if everybody had sex ed? And communication training.

1:12:47Dr. Laurie Mintz:And communication. I do think in the world that we're going into, these are the most important qualities a human needs. Like a child isn't necessarily going to need to learn all the things that they're learning today because AI is going to do that for them. But they need to learn humanity. They need to learn empathy. They need to learn social skills, communication. These are going to be like vital skills. I think as we lose all these normal jobs because AI is taking them and it becomes smarter than us, that's actually what's going to make us successful is those core emotional skills.

1:13:22Sarah Ann Macklin:Yeah. Human connection. I mean, it is whether it's just two people talking and feeling connected, friends, your partner, sex, like human connection. I mean, even in the world of therapy, I think about this. Like there's all these and I'm not saying they're not good. There's all these scientific advances, this technique for this, this technique for that. But across like hundreds of years of psychotherapy research, the number one predictive thing about how a client does is how much connection they feel with the therapist, how understood they feel like that is the key.

1:14:04Dr. Laurie Mintz:I honestly think that is the key to every work relationship, partner relationship, friendship. If you feel seen and understood and you feel that you can actually truly be yourself and not have to put on a performative mask, which so many of us do, then actually your connection deepens because you become more vulnerable. You become more open because you feel not judged.

1:14:27Sarah Ann Macklin:Right.

1:14:28Dr. Laurie Mintz:But I feel really sad that most of us will go through our lives not feeling they can be themselves because they don't feel good enough.

1:14:36Sarah Ann Macklin:Right. Right. That is so sad. And everyone out there is good enough. Right. You are enough the way you are sexually and otherwise. And keep moving along and get those data points. I love that.

1:14:49Dr. Laurie Mintz:Get the data points. So, Laurie, this has been so eye-opening. there's been so many so many different incredible things that we've spoken about it empowered me to read this book I've sent it to so many people it's empowered them I love if this was more into sex ed I don't know if this has changed but you said there's only 23 states in the United States where sex education is mandate

1:15:16Sarah Ann Macklin:where it's mandated to be medically accurate people can be told lies in sex ed like literally it's it's it's gotten worse not better unfortunately yeah i can imagine that doesn't

1:15:28Dr. Laurie Mintz:surprise me right now yeah uh yeah um less than that um that needs zero air time but um but i hope that people feel empowered and not shamed and not stigmatized um regarding this and i i always leave my guests with one question which i'd be really interested in how you answer this which is what does live well, be well mean to you?

1:15:52Sarah Ann Macklin:Oh, I love that question. Thank you for asking it. What it means to me personally is everything we talked about today, connecting with others, being authentic to my true self and other people's true selves, to make sure that I honor connections with people and I try to see them and surround myself with people who see me. And for me, and this may be completely out of left field because we didn't even talk about it today, to me it also means doing yoga because I'm a very anxious person and what I have learned is if I do yoga every day, I feel calmer. And there's also research that women do yoga, have more orgasms.

1:16:54Sarah Ann Macklin:And the reason is, and I'm not saying everybody out there has to go do yoga, find your own yoga, you know, but why? Because it teaches us to be present in our bodies and not all this chatter. What does she think of me? You know, even our conversation, if I was worried every second, what you were thinking of me, I wouldn't have been able to talk to you. Like you have to learn however you learn it. For me, it's connection and body movement to like be your authentic true self, honor other people's and in their fullness. Don't shut other people down. If someone's sad, don't say, don't be sad. Like, why are you sad?

1:17:37Sarah Ann Macklin:Be curious, be there, be empathic. So that was kind of a long-winded answer, but it's all of that. I love that.

1:17:44Dr. Laurie Mintz:It was that's so weird. We've obviously got like a telepathy thing happening because in my brain I went, I didn't ask about somatic body work. And I imagine that's really powerful because, again, it went back to my disconnection conversation where we're very disconnected from our minds and our bodies. You know, we're kind of to in here the very famous Richardson talk of TED Talks, Why Do Schools Kill Creativity? and he says that we're kind of disconnected from our minds to our from our shoulders up basically and it all becomes up here later on and I really believe that so much the power we have to do today which includes this work is to get back into our bodies but just I talk about stress being the antidote um stretching being the antidote to so much in the morning like if you just stretch for 10 minutes you already feel connected to your body yeah right exactly and you know i love

1:18:37Sarah Ann Macklin:this because yes we are connected people talk about the mind body connection and even that drives me crazy because that's like putting we have one thing and another thing and they're connected no they are one we are one yeah and we forget about from here down and we're so much in here. I have a brand new grandson and he, I'm watching him. He doesn't have the thoughts yet because he doesn't even have the language. When he's hungry, he cries. When he's content, he's so in his body because he hasn't been taught to self-monitor yet. And I look at him and I feel like, no, you know, we can't all walk around like that all the time.

1:19:23Sarah Ann Macklin:But I think we could maintain more of that more play do yeah yeah laurie thank you so much i'm gonna put the links

1:19:33Dr. Laurie Mintz:to the book and everything that you do in the show notes thank you thank you for coming on and sharing your knowledge about women it was so such a lovely conversation thank you