Your “Healthy” Food Is the Problem | How Ultra-Processed Foods Affect Women’s Hormones & Gut Health | Milli Hill

0:00Most people will say, oh, we don't really eat ultra-processed food in our house. Oh, don't worry, I've had that in clinic. People come in to me and I'm like, show me your food diary. It's only like 60 % of their diet. Because there's so many things that are marketed as healthy. You've got constant emulsifiers, loads of preservatives, rapeseed oils. This is what our bodies are metabolizing. The things that are marketed as healthy are quite often the biggest culprits. More women are more likely to suffer with an autoimmune disease. Women who eat most ultra-processed food have a 50 % higher risk of depression.

0:28We assume that women just were born to suffer of these conditions. We don't ask why have women got all these autoimmune conditions more than men? Why are twice as many women depressed as men? We may not be looking at that missing piece of the puzzle, which is what are you eating? Writer and women's health advocate Millie Hill joins us to expose the truth about ultra-processed food, the female body, and the gut hormone connection no one's talking about. Know that there is a part of the gut microbiome that regulates estrogen and that needs us to be eating fiber. So if we're eating a lot of ultra-processed food, you're not going to be getting that fiber.

1:01The oestrobolome is controlling all kinds of things, from our gut health to our oestrogen levels, and also our mental health. And so that is a subset of gut bacteria that metabolizes oestrogen, which is really important. Are women more vulnerable biologically to men? How does ultra-processed foods play a role in some of these conditions that women suffer with? Maybe we are blaming ourselves hormonally, when actually we haven't been looking at what we've been eating. Firstly, I want to say thank you to tuning in and listening to the show. It means a huge amount. And connecting with all of you is something that I absolutely love as part of this journey of growing the show.

1:38One of my biggest goals of 2025 is doubling the reach of this show. And I can't do that without your support. So I would love to ask you a favor if you can press subscribe or follow on whichever platform you listen to. This helps us reach more people. And for me, elevating women in science is so fundamental and ethical and scientific information. So if you feel the show empowers you and gives you the information that you've been seeking, I would love to ask a favour in return and to hit that subscribe button and help me reach the goal that I've set for the show of 2025. Thank you. I'm so excited to have this conversation because women's health is very close to my heart.

2:23Being a women's scientist, nutritionist, hosting this podcast, in the last kind of year, I've realized that the more content we've put out on women's health, the more virility we get. But the reason is because it's shown the demand is there, that people are really, really searching for answers on women's health. And I'm really excited today because recently, maybe recently, about a year ago, we had Chris Van Talikin on about ultra-processed people. And last year, that was one of our highest-grossing episodes. And so I'm very excited to bring this context to specifically women and women's health and everything in general.

3:03So I just want to start with a few stats. So the average UK diet includes almost 60 % of ultra-processed foods compared to just 15 % in France. Then we look at where we are in the UK compared to other parts in Europe. And then I also found this stat quite interesting. Eating just four servings of ultra processed foods a day was linked with an increased risk of early death. And I was like, well, okay, that's large. And I know that two thirds of our shopping baskets in the UK are full of ultra processed foods. So we've got a pretty big starting ground here. So then I thought, well, let's just strip it all the way back.

3:41That's currently where we are. If we are what we eat, what happens when most of us eat what isn't real? Well, exactly. Yeah. We have a problem. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I mean, you just have to look around and talk to people, I think, to see that we have a problem at the moment with what people are eating. Yeah. Well, I think maybe let's start with why this is so specific, more so to you, to women. Because people will probably listen to this saying, well, I know there is a huge problem with ultra-processed foods. Why are you focusing this specifically on women's health? Well, because I think, you know, the question, what about women, needs to be asked all the time.

4:28It needs to be uppermost in people's minds all the time because, you know, it doesn't get asked often enough. often we generalize and we talk about people and often when we generalize and talk about people we're referring to the default person which is a male so from research to you know our own concept of a human often the default person is male and so I just feel it's important to turn the spotlight on women um and ask how it affects us we're 51 of the population and we are unique our bodies are different so there's going to be specific impacts on women um so yeah it's women women's bodies are matter yeah no they do i think what i found so surprising about this is i mean there's a and a massive amount of research in this book.

5:22And you speak about how ultra processed foods can contribute to things like menopause, to depression, to autoimmune diseases, to dementia, to chronic insomnia. And interestingly, women score higher on these diseases anyway. Women are more likely to have an autoimmune condition. More women are more likely to suffer with an autoimmune disease. More women are more likely to suffer with depression. So how does ultra processed foods play a role in some of these conditions that women suffer with. Well, that's a really interesting point that you've made. And the other thing that interests me when it comes to women's health is how often we assume that women just were born to suffer, if you like.

6:02We were born to suffer these conditions. We don't ask why. Like, why have women got all these autoimmune conditions more than men? Why are twice as many women depressed as men? We don't know the answers to these things, really. And so with food, it's like suddenly you think it turns on a light bulb because you think maybe this could be part of the answer. Obviously it's not 100 % of the answer and it's complicated, but it's staring us in the face. This sort of balance isn't there between, is it because of what we're eating? So is it something in the ultra-processed foods that's causing problems in the body?

6:33For example, inflammation or some other strange response? Or is it because when we're filling ourselves up with ultra-processed foods, we're not filling ourselves up with all of these whole foods and fibres that we're supposed to be eating as humans that we were built and have always eaten up until about 50 years ago. So something that like spikes my thought here and I will take these down like level by level talking about menopause, talking about mental health, talking about PCOS. But one thing I think that really highlights when I think about women as hormones. So are women more vulnerable biologically did you feel when you were researching this book to men and maybe that's why ultra processed foods are having such an impact i think well there is obviously so much we don't understand for example the microbiome is such an emerging area of health i know you've recently had someone on your podcast talking about how there's a difference between the female microbiome and the male microbiome but we don't really know very much about that yet at all but we do know that there is a part of the gut microbiome, for example, that regulates estrogen and that that part of the gut microbiome needs us to be eating fiber.

7:45So if we're eating a lot of ultra-processed food, for example, we're not going to be getting that fiber. And so then our oestrobolome, as it's called. I'm so glad you said that because I just pulled it up and I was like, Millie will say this way better than I can. Yeah. In the book, I refer to it as the sea witch because for some reason, it gives me this image of this kind of mysterious creature deep in our gut microbiome. But the sea witch, the oestrobolome, is controlling all kinds of things from, you know, from our gut health to our oestrogen levels in our body, our regulation of our oestrogen levels.

8:20And those in turn, for example, could have an impact on our vaginal microbiomes and also on our mental health. So it's really, really complicated. We're all interconnected and I think that's the thing in the body. So can you just describe what that word was again for people that maybe have never heard of it? Yeah, the oestrobolome. And so that is a subset of gut bacteria that metabolizes oestrogen, which is really important and critical for hormone health, especially for women. Yeah. And I have one too, by the way. It's not a uniquely female thing. Wow. Okay. But it's something that is very, I mean, we've done a lot of gut health episodes and this and very rarely has that come up yeah and i imagine obviously that maybe declines as you age into menopause i'm just thinking because you have a drop in estrogen so maybe that's also another determining factor if that's if that's not being supported by food and then you're going through menopause i can imagine that also being quite a critical insurance factor to think about well i think the differences in the male and female microbiome come into play at puberty and then even out again a bit more at menopause what role the oestrobolome plays in all that and how that changes, I'm not sure.

9:28But I do know that it's definitely really important to be eating a lot of fiber and whole foods when you're going through menopause. And that that is probably the reason why. I think we can safely say that that is, it's the regulation of estrogen in our bodies. There's never been a better time really than menopause to be starting to think about what you're eating in terms of how it's affecting, you know, your estrogen. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you said in the subsect five questions, when I asked you the question on health transformation, and I said what's one health related change that significantly impacted your well-being and you actually like well I'm going to answer too and your first answer was your diet making much more focus on your diet and obviously as a nutritionist and somebody who is very empowering around food and wanting people to try and make the right choices for their health how has food become so fundamental to you in this journey especially through menopause which you spoke to me about earlier?

10:20Yeah, well, basically, I mean, that's how I came to start thinking about this book, because I was actually working on another book, which hasn't come out yet. But when I was working on that book, I was writing something about menopause. And I was going through my own experience of menopause. And I had a sort of game changing moment where I googled, how do women around the world experience menopause? And I hadn't really thought about this before, because we never do think about these things before they happen to us, do we really let's face it so um and that was really eye-opening for me because i started to read that there are women in other parts of the world who have a very different experience of menopause some cultures don't have a word for menopause some don't have as many hot flushes or as we do and a lot of some cultures also conceptualize menopause differently so they think of it as you know an upgrade uh where a woman becomes a wise woman or you know a second spring that's Such a positive version of menopause, you know?

11:16And I think in cultures that perceive older women as important, then there has been some research that has shown that women in those cultures have less menopause symptoms. So it's almost as if part of the menopause symptoms could be psychologically connected to feeling that your value is dropped. But I mean, that's speculation. but I think it's that when I read that, I thought that's actually really interesting. And it made me think about my own perception of myself and how the psychological aspect of how you feel in midlife could be not the whole picture, but part of the picture. But certainly as well, this idea that, you know, for example, women in Okinawa, you know, who are eating a lot of plants have a much better experience of menopause generally than we do in the West.

12:06And that got me thinking about diet. So then when I read Chris Mantellican's book, that was another reason why I wanted to put the spotlight onto women, because I thought this could be really game-changing for women. Again, because the female body is sort of pathologized and medicalized so readily, we may not be looking at that missing piece of the puzzle, which is, what are you eating? You know, which is so simple, really, compared to lots of the other options. That was definitely my journey into this. My, and I don't believe it's the only, the only resource that we need, but I do believe me, it's interesting when I look back, because I'm writing my book at the moment, when I look back at the last 10 years of my change of career, when everything, I'd lost my health and everything was kind of at a standstill with myself, my first step forward was into food.

12:52for me it was the first grasp of thing where I was like okay this I think is really important biochemically physiologically everything in my body from my brain to my immune system I was like I actually need to figure out that what I'm putting into my body is going to support me in all these different ways and it is sad that two-thirds of our shopping baskets are full of processed foods and I think this is the conversation that I have and I struggle with where we talk a lot about choice but I kind of feel that we are in such an obesogenic environment that actually our choice is so reduced. Because when you walk into a supermarket, you have more processed foods and ultra-processed foods than fresh foods.

13:28Whereas when I go on holiday and I go into little markets, wherever I am, whether it's Italy or Spain or France, it feels so much more abundant. The fruit, the vegetables, everything just looks so much more nourishing and fresh and it just tastes better. And so I find it easier to make those choices than when I live here in the UK or when I go to America. Yeah. I mean, in France, they've protected bread. They have a thing called the Decree Pain, which is like the bread decree, which has made rules about what can be in bread and that it must be sold on the premises where it's made. They don't have, I expect they do in their supermarkets now, but generally the bread in France is not EPF most of the bread.

14:12And that's a huge area, you know, right there, that's solved by legislation. Yeah. The other really interesting thing I think about, you know, with the stats you're giving about how much of our shopping baskets are full of ultra-processed food. And also we should distinguish between processed and ultra-processed. Yeah, let's just get these graphs up in the book. It is interesting though, because when you talk to people about, when I've been talking to people about this book as I've been writing it, most people will say, oh, we don't really eat ultra-processed food in our house. Oh, don't worry.

14:40I've had that in clinic. People come into me and I'm like, show me your food diary. and I'm like how much ultra processed food do you think you're eating and they go I don't know 20 it's something like 60 of their diet yeah because there's so many things that are marketed as healthy exactly exactly and they're ultra processed in fact yeah the things that are marketed as healthy are quite often the biggest culprits I found one in the supermarket the other day it was a kefir ice cream so I thought that's interesting I've never seen that before picked it up and turned and it said you know great for gut health and things on the front flipped it over and it had about six different emulsifiers and preservatives and thickeners.

15:19Iron is one of the most common deficiencies that I see in clinic, especially in women. And it's not just about feeling tired. Low iron can impact your energy, your focus, your mood and even your immune system. It's something we really need to be aware of because if left untreated, iron deficiency can become very serious. Now, UK data shows that around 20-35 % of women aged 18-50 do not need the recommended dietary guidelines for iron intake. And if you're pregnant, menstruating or following a vegetarian or vegan diet, your needs are even higher. And therefore, you're more at risk. So, that's why I often recommend Spartone.

16:01Now, this is a naturally sourced iron-rich water that comes from the Welsh hills. It contains ferrous iron, the most absorbable form, with studies showing up to 40 % absorption, so your body can actually use what it takes in. Now, it's also incredibly gentle. It's one natural ingredient, there's no harsh tablets, and there's no digestive issues. I use it myself, and it is my go-to in clinic. You can pick up Spartone at Boots, and if you've been feeling low in energy, it's absolutely worth checking in on your iron with your doctor or GP. You've got these, like, beef soup and noodles, which most people would probably think, oh, wait, maybe we'll actually use Tesco wholemeal bread.

16:43When I was with Chris, I actually bought these items in, and we were, like, we were descripting them on the back. But you can see, I'm gonna, like, put this up to the camera, so on YouTube you can have a look, but there is a big old long list of words on this. And I kind of think about when I would make homemade sourbread at home, not that I do that all the time. I might do that once a year. But it's only a couple of ingredients. And then you look at this and you've got things, you know, emulsif - constant emulsifiers, loads of preservatives, rapeseed oils. I mean, it's huge, like absorbic acid.

17:15Well, actually, that's vitamin C. But lots of yeast extracts, flavor enhancers, lots of thickeners. And so actually, this is what our bodies are metabolizing. They're not getting it. And what I call it is overnourished, but under eating. Yes. Well, I think that that's happening with children is, you know, growth problems because they may be eating a lot of food, but they're not, they're actually malnourished, even though they're eating a lot. And extraordinary and terrifying thing to contemplate, really. because the other thing that writing the book got me thinking about is that you can actually eat a lot of things.

17:56It's what they call hyperpalatable as well, which means it's like the Pringles slogan, once you pop, you can't stop. Yeah, it's because of one of the... I remember at school someone telling me, because there was an E number in there that literally activates a part of your brain to keep you going. So I was like, that is why when you pop, you can't stop. Yeah, I mean, they're just so Moorish. I mean, it's that Moorish nature of UPF that's really grabbing us. Yeah, well, they are good. And I think that's really important to say that because we need to have a conversation where people are honest. Like we were saying, we are, all of us are eating this stuff.

18:28All of us are tempted by this stuff. And so it's no good sort of splitting ourselves off and saying, oh, we're this holy folk who have this amazingly pure diet. I don't want to put myself on that pedestal and say that I am that person because I'm not. I've got three children. We have a normal family house where, you know, we do sometimes have things like sliced bread that we've just been talking about. It's very difficult to get away from it, but we can. There are small changes that we can make that will make a big difference still. Well, I think the one thing that's really going to shock people here is...

19:00This is labelled as healthy, by the way, but I don't normally call brands out, but it's in your book, so I'm going to do it. Activia Gut Health Low Fat Yogurt and Granola. So tell me, this is... I'm going to put this up again to the camera. So this is the label of ingredients. So talk to me about this, because maybe this is where we start, because most people probably wouldn't say, most people would say that's healthy, I think, listening to the show. Yeah. Tell me your take on this, now I've shown the ingredients to everybody. All of these products are being marketed for profit, so they have extra ingredients in them to make them more moorish, more hyperpalatable, to have a longer shelf life, to be more appealing.

19:42often they're maybe full of sugar or they may have sort of gums and emulsifiers in them to make them creamier but they don't have cream in them to make them creamier so there's all of these tricks basically that are put into that yogurt to make it cheaper to produce last longer on the shelf easier to transport reliable so that every single active yogurt that you open is the same as the other one which is actually if you make things at home yourself you know it's not how things normally work in your home kitchen so all of these elements are all for profit um when really you don't need any of that stuff if you want to eat yogurt you can just eat natural yogurt with fruit um and that then you're fine i think that whole low fat era i'm hoping it's dying out now a little bit i mean it's definitely more key towards women which i think is probably interesting to say i think more women are naturally lean towards low fat product products but you remove the fat, you remove the flavor.

20:40So obviously this is the reason why they become so bulked out with these stabilizers and thickeners. Yeah. To give them that, and the sweetness, to give them that moreish behavior. Yeah, it's cheaper. Yeah, I mean, did you know that Diet Coke and Coke Zero are basically the same product, but that they created Coke Zero to appeal to men, because they thought that Diet Coke sounded more appealing to women. I mean, that tells you so much, doesn't it about the food industry and about how women are marketed to yeah well i always love the term that if you take the tea off diet you get dye yeah and it is it's a huge undernourishment i think that's what i worry with the the rise of ultra processed food so we still haven't defined them so let's define process versus ultra process what's the difference people who are trying to navigate this in a supermarket?

21:34Okay, so human beings have always processed food, at least for as long as we know about. So if you take an apple and chop it up or cook it into cooked apple, you're putting it through a process. If you cook a piece of fish, you're putting it through a process. So there's nothing really wrong with processed food. A jar of chutney or a loaf of bread is all food that's processed. It's been through a process. Ultra processed food is something different. if you flip it over it will have ingredients on the back that you don't recognize that's one of the key ways that you can tell there are apps you can get as well i should probably mention there's one called open food facts so you can scan the barcode and it will give you a little sort of traffic light system to tell you if food's ultra processed or not but it's pretty easy to tell if it's wrapped in plastic and it's in the supermarket it's it's likely you know it the best thing to do is just assume everything is ultra processed and start there.

22:29Well it's true you know that Activia I guess people would be like oh this is something that's really good for my health there's lots of Activia shots. The big thing that I see is healthy bars that are labeled as protein bars that are hugely ultra processed. Lots of shakes are ultra processed and so I think there's this mass market because the wellness industry is about to be eight trillion dollars in 2026 and I think because that is such a big market and there is so much money to be made everyone now is trying to pinpoint what they're selling into health but sadly half of it isn't exactly and I think that food companies are going to get cleverer with what they're putting on their labels because that message has been going around for a while now of flip over the packet and read if you can't recognize some of the ingredients so i think that we need to watch out for that because i think that will definitely happen that they call it clean labeling and i think to some extent to be fair to food companies it may be that they want to make a move towards reducing the level of ultra processing but on the other hand you know being cynical it could well be that they just want to, you know, they want you to put that product in your trolley anyway.

23:45I think there is the other thing that does get a bit confusing, just to say, with this idea of it having ingredients that you don't have in your kitchen, is that sometimes, like say a tin of kidney beans will have one thing in it, like a firming agent. And I see a lot of this in like Facebook groups about ultra processed food and discussions of people getting really into a sort of panic about what they can put in their trolley and what they can't. And it's fine if you want to be a complete purist, then you need to seek out that tin of kidney beans that's just tinned beans in water, or you need to buy your beans dried and soak them, that kind of thing.

24:22But I think if you can still recognize the item as food, that's another good sign that it's probably not been ultra processed. I mean, the kidney bean still looks like a kidney bean, doesn't it? whereas when you've got your sort of strange bars like my favorite my nemesis the the go-ahead fruit and oat bake which I let my kids eat a lot of and I don't anymore because I just thought oh great it's like a kind of health you know just go ahead it's healthy those sorts of items with that have got like 35 different ingredients you know it's it's you have to have some nuance when you approach this topic but it is the case that women are quite often in charge of the shopping and the cooking.

25:04And so if you are that woman who's also trying to work and juggle loads of other aspects of your life, it does make it very difficult for you if you then feel that every single thing that has an extra ingredient on the back can't go in the trolley. So there has to be some nuance introduced so that people can navigate this and keep their sanity. I do think the overthinking part and the stress of it is also something that is really important to touch upon. But I do think that the education around the other choices is really important. I think people are so confused, and I see it. I work in this every day in the nutrition landscape, and I can see people are so confused, because it has got confusing.

25:43But actually, without me wanting to sound degrading in any way, it is quite basic. We're just making it more complex than it needs to be. Yeah, I think some of the confusion is coming from food companies. it's in their interests for people to be confused so I do see news articles for example that muddle up and even information pages on websites of people who should companies who should know better muddling that sort of process with ultra processed and making it all sound really complicated so I think some of it is coming from food companies but like you say it's obvious really if we're all really honest with ourselves we know what actual food is you know if your grandmother if it would have been in the shop when your grandmother went to get the food for the week or whatever, then it's less likely to be an egg, an apple, a potato, a piece of meat.

26:34Rice, all of that type of stuff. It's very rare that I would talk about companies on here. But I do think it's important to talk about things, and it's because this is very dedicated to women, such as Weight Watchers. And I've always had a bit of a... My back's always got up about Weight Watchers and Slimming World and these companies because I think, yes the community aspect is amazing but it's it's registered in the nhs as a great weight loss treatment and what worries me is that they're selling their products through these meetings and i think the meetings is what gives support to people being able to lose weight because we know when you do things in a community and we share our vulnerabilities and we feel that support then we can actually get much further with weight loss but the problem that worries me is that it's then about buying these products and these products are laden with all of these ultra processed foods with these gums with these sweeteners it's all about points it's all about like extreme diets and they're all nutrient deficient and it worries me that even the nhs is giving that as a support mechanism for weight loss as opposed to trying to get people to eat more foods that are full of fiber that are going to fill them up satisfy them and allow that community support aspect to still be there but not selling products that are all ultra processed yes exactly and i I mean, there's still the messaging, you know, from places like the NHS about having smaller plates.

27:55And it's all very reductive. It's ignoring the elephant in the room, I think, which is that if you have a great big plate full of freshly made salads and whole foods, then you're fine. You know, it is the ultra processed food that is the problem. And maybe we just don't want to acknowledge that because we've painted ourselves into a corner where it's so convenient or that's what we've been told. And I think that's another interesting myth that's worth challenging, the sort of idea that we can't live without these products, especially in the modern world, because I don't feel like I have loads of extra time because of ultra-processed food.

28:32And none of the women or men or any of the adults that I look around and see seem to be benefiting massively from this industry in the way that we're told that we are. I've watched the science of adaptogens grow personally over the last few years, and they've become more curious in their role in nervous system support, focus and resilience because adaptogens basically buffer the cortisol that gives us that stress and anxiety. But here's the thing, quality is everything. Most adaptogens on the market don't actually contain enough of the active compounds that you see in clinical studies to make a difference.

29:06That's why I've partnered with London Nootropics. These guys only use clinical studies standardized extracts. This is really, really important to get the benefits that you're seeing in clinical research. And they work with Hifas d 'Aterra, Europe's leading mushroom bioscience company. They have high bioavailability, they use incredible ingredients like KSM 66 ashwagandha and Radole Life. These are the active ingredients that you need to see the difference. They have lots of different blends. Flow gets me into deep focus with Lion's Mane. Zen helps support my calm, steady my clarity with ashwagandha.