Corporate Diversification Through M&A

21:34And whatever you got to do to make sure that outcome happens, it's what you do. Do you get resistance? I feel like you get resistance from a lot of areas. It'd be hard to imagine that everybody just gets on board and you got to have somebody that doesn't agree with it. Oh, yeah. Kind of goes back to just being agile and checking the ego out the door. But can you sense it? it any sense? Like here's somebody in the leadership team or even department head that's just not about it. Yeah. And you got to get them on the same page quickly. What does it take to do that? A lot of the conversations, a lot of data and patience as well, which is interesting to say patience in a manner of where you're trying to do something quickly, but it goes back to always listening.

22:12What are your pain points? It's just like sales where if you can have somebody tell you your pain points, you can address them. But if you want to be the guy that talks all the time, has to be seen, whatnot, it's not the move because you need to understand these people have a problem, which they'll tell you if you let them. And then from there, you can address it and bring them back on the same page. Hey, let me track down data on why these companies sell higher. Here's 10 companies in this space that sold for X. And here's the other 10 in our core space that sold for Y. X is greater. This is going to work.

22:42Or another example, your field guys and sales guys could sell one service. They could sell abatement. That's it to whatever real estate developer you want to use. We can now offer soil and groundwater remediation as well on their sites. That provides more opportunity for the sales guy to upsell his customer while using us. And the customer's benefit of that is they have one throat to choke. If something goes bad in a project, they can call EIS. They don't have to call EIS for the abatement over there and then AECOM for the consulting side of things. It's all managed by one EIS. And so that makes it easier on the customer, but also provides opportunities to their employees as well.

23:16Make more money, and put it in our pocket and grow. That's a good example of how to frame that. How do you measure success? For us, cross-selling. Actual revenue from cross-selling? That's what you would track? That's our number one metric we're tracking on our side. Actual synergy? Like here's an increase that our team was able to produce? There's been projects, multiple projects on both sides of the businesses between the abatement and the consulting remediation side where we would not have seen the project from a bidding perspective. However, somebody had a relationship with the customer and said, oh, we can do your asbestos abatement for you.

23:46Let me call these guys. We'll set them up. By the way, round two, hey, let's, so the things we'll do is UST work, underground storage tanks. There's opportunities too that the abatement guys see and understand, hey, we have a group that can come do this one. What groundwater mediation on this side as well. Let's call them in. So far, it's working out pretty well. When you look at like actually tracking financial result, I'm curious too of what do you forecast for synergies versus what do you actually capture? like how accurate is it? The forecasting part's tough. Hey, if everybody talked to you, you make a model so you can get the deal approved.

24:19Like you can literally make a chart that goes up and to the right as far as you need to. Yeah, and we don't really like doing it. That's why I'm always curious. Like you just fall short 50 % when you look back a year out or... Be very honest. We don't budget in many revenue synergies at all. When we look at the core business, what it is today. That's what I heard is like the best practice is to be very conservative about revenue synergies. But that being said, where we can track them is our business development team and BU leaders all have targets in here for cross-link opportunities and to make sure we're A, training our guys, the sales guys into what the additional services lines are, but then B, executing on that as well.

24:56We push those targets down to the BD leaders and the BU leaders to help execute on those. But even more importantly, we love bonuses. We have additional commissions on projects for our project managers for if you refer the project to the other side of the group, you get X amount of the commission on the project. And the other, I think it's like the guy who performs it gets 75%. The guy who referred it gets 25%. More referral bonuses. I see how your company works here. This is Rob Odom there says, pay all the good players. All right. Hey, we're trying to get you guys to do something and it doesn't feel right.

25:30Not rewarding people for doing the right thing. They're creating exponential value for us and we want to make sure that they feel the same way. I like it. Our employees are very important to us. Yeah, but I like the way you incentivize them. So it's a good thing. And it gets what you want accomplished versus coming up with all these trainings and things like that. And you just look, that's what we're trying to do. Put some carrot behind it and we're off. You know the private equity market, everything needed to be done yesterday. You guys are PE backed. I want to talk about structuring deals. Are you doing a lot of earnouts?

26:02We got earnouts, we got equity, and we got owner holding a note, we got cash. Yeah, I'll start with the easy one first. On the seller notes, not going to happen. We got private credit behind us too. Not going to go through that mess. Cash flows goes to the bank and that keeps them happy. Typical deal structure is going to be 20 % rollover into the larger EIS organization, 80 % cash. What it does is we talked a little bit earlier about keeping those owners engaged in the company because we need them. And so the rollover equity portion typically takes care of that. And so, hey, you grow your business, you're growing your investment on top of it, right?

26:38And so the ideal situation is that 20%, they can 2x their money on it and take home another half a million bucks. Pretty good deal. We'll use earn outs occasionally, but I hate them. I think it's a common theme on here too. Pisses people off when they miss them. We love to pay them out because it means the company's growing. But that being said, the angst to just getting there between the document negotiation, is paying, really the document negotiation gets slowed down extremely. We typically come out with pretty standardized documents where we try to acquire four or five, six companies a year if we can.

27:14You're paying 80 % cash on all these acquisitions. You guys operate like a public company. You just got a big balance sheet to work off of or something. Yeah, we got good backers. I'm on the other end, my friend. I'm trying to get my deals 100%, 110 % financed. I own it all. I can probably... Put the equity owner-sellers note. You're going to get me in trouble. Well, if anybody wanted to take an all stock deal, I'd do it. I think anybody would. But the industry we're playing in right now, the environmental services, is hot. Every private equity group and their mothers have some type of investment in the environmental services space, or they want to get in there.

27:46And so playing in this competitive market, going into the competitive space, we have to provide attractive options for these individuals, especially for them stepping out of the comfort zones. with the basic 80-20 start there. And we've had more rollover in one or two deals, and then we've had less rollover in some of the deals too. But that's always our starting point, what we would like to see. And we just consider it kind of market. Yeah, with the earnouts, man, that still just gives me the heebie-jeebies because we can typically get a document negotiated in a couple of weeks. Once you start adding that complexity in, double it, honestly, until the angst to get there.

28:21And then they don't even get there. You got them all pissed off. And we want to keep things as smooth as possible if we can. Everybody always says that on their own. It's like hindsight, they're terrible, they're bad, but we do so many of them. We've been avoiding them recently. It's like cultural things because I know other corp have teams where they don't use them at all or it's opposite. They use them all the time. I guess the other side of it too, our lenders don't really like them either. They view it as debt sitting out there. So it is, especially if they hit it and we're not always deleveraging.

28:49We'll have some deleverage event a part of it, but... Yeah, are you guys using debt on these deals? Yeah, we'll use both. debt and equity, whatever we need. Okay. So you're putting cash, but you're borrowing a good amount of that cash. What kind of like debt facilities do you get access to? Typical private credit. That's it. We have a revolver with them too. And do you usually do like bank banks or using these new private funds? Private funds. Really? Yeah. Are you seeing good terms? I don't mean to pride your business here, but... There's a strategic reason behind this. And I just, I know this more from my private equity days.

29:21The terms on paper aren't necessarily the best terms that you can go out and get. You can go to Bank of America, Morgan Stanley, JP, whoever, get yourself a 5 % interest rate, but mistakes happen. And when you go with those banks, they're not as forgiving with those mistakes compared to a private credit guy. So we pay a little bit more in interest, but if we have a blip in the road, there's a deep relationship between our private credit and private equity group. We get them on the phone, talk through it. Here's a remediation plan. Here's what's happening and discuss a plan to go forward besides a plan for us to be owned by the bank.

29:53And so that's the trade-off that we have right now with being a little bit smaller company. The private credit is just easier to work with us. Well, yeah, because you brought up an interesting point I haven't thought about is that it almost lets you take more risk. If you're going to have that relationship and be comfortable that you can navigate through a blip or a mishap, that makes a big difference. And all of a sudden you can be a little bit more risk appetite on some of the things that you're doing. Absolutely. Our leverage ratio is definitely higher than what we'd have with a traditional bank.

30:22And yeah, there are terms on deals that are pretty meaningful. Time to close, anything like that. What are you spelling out in your letter of intent? 60. 60 days? 60 to 90. Depends on who you are. No offense to anybody who watches this, but you can tell how quick we can get something done with the sellers just by the initial diligence. We do have a pretty strenuous upfront process compared to most. So by the time we do get into a deal, we're pretty big. I've got my investment deck ready. It's been not just through the executive leadership team at EIS Holdings, but we'll present it all the way up to the executive leadership team at sun capital and that's just to get to an loi now that being said once we get to the loi it's game time in between that dating stage i'll give sellers a little bit of space hey we're going to move at your pace how you're comfortable and provide friendly reminders occasionally i was going to check in keep a good pulse on them but not push once it gets loi and we start spending dollars you're playing my game at that time that time we start pushing and say hey we need to get this done in 60 days.

31:21That's the target. I need you focused and help them manage through it. And whatever I got to do, if I got to be on a plane at seven o 'clock in the morning, go pull freaking documents. I've done it. I imagine most of us have at some point, but. I've chatted about this before. This whole idea, this is where I probably got to put a disclaimer. Tyler's a deal room customer and I don't have a choice. More and more organizations are becoming deal room customers. So it's getting harder to find ones that aren't. But we were talking about one of the sweet spots in the product is combining diligence as a work stream with your integration planning as a work stream.

31:54You can do both in the same environment. I wrote a book on it called Agile M &A. Go check it out. But what's your take on that part of... Because we're really talking about this point of combining these entities, but being able to execute and do that well. So it's interesting. When I first started, all I did was data room and the request. The request is what brought me in. I spent too many nights at midnight with my computer in my bed and just updating stuff to send it back to people. And all right, that got kind of old pretty quick. From there, we started building out on it. We have our requests, we have our data room, and now the pipeline's integrated into there.

32:27And then the latest phase we just started to do is the integration with you. And so what this allows is for a much quicker transition from the deal team to integration. I'm always happy to answer questions and help people along, but I'll get a little bit annoyed when I get the same questions from the same people over and over when there's information already available. And so that being said, what it allows us to do is I just click a button, take it from a phase of due diligence to closed and then close to integration. And once that happens, we have our whole integration checklist set up underneath on the request list.

32:55We have assignees to it. We've already been through the integration process with them, how this is going to work and every step they need to take. The timeline set, whether it's week one, day 30, day 60, day 90, here's your responsibilities and what they can need to get done. But also it allows for everything we found out during diligence to be accessible by our integration team as well. And so it's not just in one Excel sheet that needs to go back and forth. with a bunch of comments in it, or the data room has been downloaded from whatever website into a shared drive on the server where you have to go map all of them back to what documents what.

33:28And so it's allowed me and Rob to go do more deals instead of answering integration questions. And so those guys can execute on what they need to do, laid out, here it is. And then on the backside of it, I can also monitor how the integration is going, what's getting done. You guys need to update your statuses, right? in the progress that you're making on these. And we can understand who's falling behind, who's going ahead. Rarely keeps a whole pulse on integration, which will allow us to get it done quicker and onto the next deal. See, this is why I put the disclaimer in there because I knew you were going to talk about the product specifically, Dealroom.

34:00And the point around it too, it's like how else do you combine diligence integration without a tool to do that? And that's why I knew you were going to mention Dealroom. There's like no other way that you're using Excel otherwise. We designed it. Like that was by design. is all constant feedback we heard was people in integration don't get involved with the deal early enough or they just don't have that continuity there's a knowledge chasm between the handoff and that was the by design how do we eliminate that if you put both work streams in parallel with each other i don't know how you do it anyways that's the my other passion project of building the world's greatest platform mexique mna there's no other way it has to be tech enabled i hadn't seen a tool that allows me to take it soup tonight's manage all of mna in one place I get a lot of questions about is the seller.

34:44And I feel like this is something that doesn't get talked about a lot, but that the seller controls the process. The seller sets up the data room, blah, blah, blah, especially a bank control process. Now I'll speak of my experience first. The roll-up specifically will change that. Like they will be very buy because they have more people in the deal. They want to make this a familiar repeatable process so they can really scale it and they're putting up the money. So they really run it. And we've seen that time after time with any roll-up that's been 10 plus acquisitions a year. What's your take?

35:15Because you're in the middle of proprietary deals, auction deals. And again, it's like seller-driven process versus a buyer-driven process. I run as much as I can. You can legally get away with? Pretty much. So as a banker police to... I think one of the great points you just made there is we're putting the money up. There's an imbalance of exposure within these deals. Once you get into the diligence perspective, unless you have a breakup fee or whatever, which good luck getting that on a$10 million deal. There's a whole sidebar about the funny things that happen in small private deals. Yeah. We take on significant exposure here.

35:48We still run the process. We have a QOE, insurance brokers crawling through there, legal diligence. We'll do some customer diligence as well. It's outsourced, lease diligence if it's owned by the founder, just to make sure we're paying market rates and whatnot. And I'm sure there's some other things that go into it too. But we're spending dollars. and real quick, that QOE, it ain't cheap. So boom, right out of the hole, two weeks in, I'm already deep into paint. You put on more money? Yeah, exactly. And once I get deep into paint on the QOE, well, I got to start my legal guys now. Now that's, they're expensive.

36:20I don't know, and that's what they do for a living is bailing. So the more of the process I can control and keep my finger on and push, the better I feel of getting the deal done. And so not letting things linger and whatnot and staying organized, even if it's a bank-led process, they just want to get the deal done too. They want to go into the next thing. How do you manage that? Usually bank-led process, they set up a data room because they've got a bunch of people there entertaining. I tell them we're using mine. But even at the early stage? Early stage, no. So what I'll do is free LOI. I'll just run into the data room myself.

36:49Honestly, we don't really use it. Free LOI, I'll use whatever. Fine. But once we're signed, here's the data room. Here's the process. I expect you to answer these requests. I'm not going to respond to your Excel sheets. This is it. Yep. You got a signed LOI. Going exclusive, I take it. And so it's my way of the highway. Pretty much. What about the banker? This is how it's going to be. And I will, if I have to, talk about the benefits to the seller on that. And really ties around the seamless integration transition of, hey, listen, it'll make your client's life easier going through here. It's all in one location.

37:20My people know where to go when it's done. And he'll know where all the information is as well, or she. And so this might be a little bit more pain on you guys. Really don't care. This is how it's going to be. This is what we have to do to get this deal done quickly and in a timely manner. And then allow for a successful integration. and really just put it out there. It's not going to go any other way besides this way. All right, you're with the new school. For anybody listening, this is the modern new school way of doing M &A. It's buyer-driven. You take control. Even if a bank process, you take control from LOI.

37:52The old school, it's a harder thing for the banker because I do think using a platform is going to be a lot better on the buy side than using it for the sell side because you end up using spreadsheets. Yeah, I think you literally defined it. You got new school M &A. You're driving the process on the buy side. You're taking control. You're really putting integration thinking in the forefront and making sure you get this smooth transition between the stages. The old school is when the seller controls the data room. You're emailing an Excel tracker back and forth 13 times throughout the deal process.

38:25The seller, you're not really engaging with them on the integration path. And it just starts off to a rough start. because the integration folks leading the integration are scrambling to rediligence the deal all over again. And then things get delayed. People on the other end are confused on what's happening. They get frustrated, and then people eventually blow up. It sucks. It's a painful process. There's too many tabs in those Excel sheets. They come at all times of the night, all times of the day. I definitely feel strongly, if you're using Excel, it's a handicap. Oh, it sucks. And now looking forward, and what I see in the next 10 years with all this emerging AI, it's so much about data.

39:06The more data you have, I'm even encouraging our customers now, don't, like, I'll cut you a deal and just store everything and archive it. Not only is it better archiving because you get point in time access as opposed to static when you download it all, but you're able to harvest so much data that you're going to get some really rich insights and how do you make your process more effective and efficient? Knowing that, it's just like, whoa, that's like a big blow to using Excel trackers because you don't get any of that golden rich data that lives in there. No, and it just gets lost. You got to flip through all the tabs, read through all the comments.

39:38It just sits there in a file. I like that we defined modern versus old school M &A. That's one of what we turned into a blog post and put out there. We drifted off. We diversified our interview here. Went away from the core of the conversation. Whoops. Bring it back with any closing thoughts or advice for practitioners out there that may be going through the same thing. maybe in there early, introducing diversification as a strategy and executing on it. Don't rush into what you're doing. Set out a plan and don't deviate. You got to trust it. It's going to work. If you show any signs of weakness, everybody picks up on it.

40:11You got to stay focused and stay disciplined and stay the course. It'll happen. It's tough. Otherwise, everybody be doing it. If you can have buy-in from the company, top to bottom, I mean, that's the most important thing. Make sure you're staying on top of people. You can sell your message very well and what you're trying to do and then that'll lead to success. Awesome. How are you feeling about AI and M &A? I love it. Are you? Oh, God. It's... It's still early, but what are you doing? Are you using it for anything? I mean, I'm not some wizard yet, but we'll do a lot of deals in adjacent geographies.

40:41A lot of our projects are funded with regulatory money, whether it's from the state, federal, whatnot. Each one, they'll typically fund a lot of our projects out of a trust fund managed by the state. That being said, we'll use that all the time. How does the state's fund operate? What's the rules that we need to know as investors? There's a little chat GPT stuff. What's the balance in the fund? That's helped answer a lot of questions. And then just general regulatory questions through chat GPT where, I don't know, you go sift through the internet for two or three hours and trying to find something and just brings it back to a concise manner.

41:13So really a lot around market research, not just market research, but just research in general and typical questions. Those are a lot of the uses I'll get out of it. Yeah. Actually, that's a really good example. And I bring it up. Those of you listening, hopefully enjoy listening because you've gotten this far in this podcast. I am starting another series. Right now, it's called AI M &A Takedown. I don't know if I'm going to change the name at some point, but I actually teach some of these best practices of using AI. And then we actually plugged in OpenAI's API right into Dealroom. And then we're building a model fine-tuned for M &A on top of it.

41:49And then we're also creating these other AI agents. But if you're interested in learning more about AI best practices and just want to see under the hood what we're actually building specifically for M &A, I recommend checking it out. You can probably find a link somewhere on our mascience.com website. I'm excited about this series because there's just so many things. And even the roadmap we've built is quite extensive. It's a whole product line of its own. That's the big technological feat to overcome is most of these learning language models, especially the public ones, are not designed to ingest a lot of data.

42:21So you really got to stack some technologies together knowing that there's a limit of how much data those learning language models can take in. So that's where it gets interesting to be able to find ways to re-scan through and pull the relevant information out of large sets of data. You don't have to worry about that. The first one... I'm going to get the box where you hit this button and it does what it wants you to. That's where we're going to get to. The first thing I think of is contracts, standard identification languages, key terms. Yep. The tests on single documents work well. The next stage for us is doing it across multiple documents, especially being to run comparisons and things like that.

42:54That'd be awesome. We're working on it. Yeah. But stay tuned in the journey. I'm super stoked about AI for M &A. It's going to be a big game changer and going to feel so bad for the people that still use Excel. You know the story, but we ran deal room for the SPAC deal we did with Goldman Sachs at Marion. It was like two plus billion. Yeah, 2.6 billion. We had 30 offices and I don't know how many countries we covered, but it's all across the U.S., Europe, Australia, pretty big. Asia as well. Was it better than using Excel? You can be honest right now. We could not have got it done. There's no way.

43:27We just set it up to our age. We split it into divisions. And so each division, here's your data request list. Here's what we need from you. Manage it through this. If it would have been Excel, I think there's probably 40, 50 people on a deal team. or not on the deal team itself, but pulling diligence between the QOE, legal diligence contracts and everything else. There's not enough analysts in the world, or maybe there are enough analysts in the world, but not at Marion to go cover that. Yeah, a lot. You ran the whole thing. You just stole all the requests and everything through Deal Room. It was two of us.

43:57I had to give Alex Gaddy a shout out. He was the kingpin and the two of us, yeah, just knocked it out. All right. We got a public deal, basically IPO slash back deal, 2.6 billion. We can handle that. That's good. I actually like that feedback. I'm telling you, the dream has always been there to architect the best platform to do M &A in the world. But I'm glad that you shared that story because I didn't ask you to. That's funny. We've done it for$2.6 billion deals and I've done it for a million, or yeah, I think the deal was like a million dollars. Worked both ways? Yeah. I'm looking forward to growing this stuff and in this next generation where it's a lot of the AI capabilities that are definitely...

44:36What's cool about it, I'll just be really straight up here. The AI capabilities runs across the whole life cycle, but every persona can benefit from it. If you're expediting diligence, it doesn't matter if you're doing HR, IT, legal. It really summarizes information in such a very efficient way that you're going to be a lot more like having this assistant. And it can impact everybody working in the deal. That's why I'm super optimistic about it. It's just not... A lot of the stuff we create, it helps people really quarterbacking the deal. Like a lot of the examples you just shared, hey, you don't have like dozens of people trying to quarterback the deal.

45:12You just use the software leverage to make it more efficient. But like all the actual work you do in M &A, finding the information, the summarizing it, just like the learnings that you need to take out and extract the core diligence, yeah, I can help tremendously with it. And it should provide a better diligence product too. I was talking with Brian Westland last night over at Dana Kepner. We all have our functional leads as well with an indeligence process, to be fair to them, it's not their day job to do M &A, right? And so we all see it. You get to your weekly meeting with them and you notice, oh, they just got into the data room yesterday and started pulling down some things real quick and how do I get this out of the office, whatever.

45:48And I think if we can leverage AI and knock the human element out of it, we'll have a lot better results and data we can drive decisions off of than relying on humans who it's not their day job. It's just the truth of the matter. I don't know. It's actually really true. There's a lot of the experience you can transfer and retain through the way you engineer prompts in the product. I was also thinking about the financial modeling part of it. I get asked a lot about that automating valuation. But it's interesting when you think about models, like over 50 % of models have an error in them. They always do.

46:21Every time you go back to the model, you'll always find an error in there. So if you think about if you can fix that, we already know. prone to errors and we're building pretty complex valuations around it. But anyways, before we wrap things up, Tyler, I got to ask you, what's the craziest thing you've seen in M &A? Craziest thing in M &A that I can think of right now, story's been told before, but same deal has happened. And we had gotten down to closing Friday morning. We'd like to do the close at eight or nine o 'clock and just get it over with. It's typically been a long week. That week was extra long.

46:52Tuesday, we went to Albany, Georgia for a deal we're looking at, met with them dinner that night drove from albany to tampa on wednesday to go clean up some document items for another deal we're looking at too so meet with the guys whatever and they just started getting a weird vibe we're supposed to close this is a deal we're supposed to close on friday and the one in tampa and we start getting these weird vibes from the sellers something happened in his family whatnot and so we had a meeting with him and our ceo drove down there a cso was down there and i'm down there and even the sell side bankers were there but the seller's missing And so he's out.

47:26He shows up three hours later. And we ended up sending our CEO home just to send a message to him. We're not really playing games anymore. It's Wednesday. We're trying to close on Friday. Shows up, have the meeting, goes fine. And then Thursday, we had to go from Tampa to Charleston to go to a conference. We make it all the way up there Thursday night. We're going through the documents. It's at the point where everybody's accepting everything. We'll give this. We'll give this. We'll get this. And we're on there with our private equity group. They're doing their last document negotiation. Our lawyer and everything else.

47:54and our lawyer messages us. We've worked with quite a bit and goes, hey, I just got a message from the seller saying go pencils down. Oh, what? I think it might be a mistake. Let me just call him. We'll just hang up, whatever. And to this day, still haven't heard from the seller. Not one word, nothing. It took him probably four weeks to respond to his sell side advisor and say, yeah, I'm just done doing the deal. All the information we got and then nothing. He stopped like during closing. We got that text message at six o 'clock at night on Thursday. I had everybody and their mother set up fun slow's done.

48:25Wow. And I mean, he still hadn't talked to us today. I think he just got some cold feet. I would be pissed, man. I would be so pissed. I would be shaming this person every day on social media. We hadn't been out to coffee since then. I'm usually a coffee guy or drinks or something. Yeah, we hadn't talked. Do not buy this person's company. I would be blooded on blast every day. Do not buy this person's company. Well, it's the whole Jordan Belfort deal, right? He's on social media and goes, Hey, sell me this pen. The first question is, are you in the market for a pen? No. Okay. Thanks. Next. These guys will either, if they want to sell you their business, they'll sell it to you.

49:04If not, they won't. Now he could have done it before we spent a bunch of money on diligence and whatnot, but just a cold Turkey. No breakup fees on that one. Yeah. No, no breakup fees. And you just like an ex-girlfriend cut you off. Oh, this has been great. Thank you so much. taking the time, meeting with me, hanging out with me in Dallas, getting fired up for our roundtable we're going to have tonight and helping me become a better M &A scientist. Thank you, Kieson. It's been a pleasure and I look forward to our roundtable and happy hour afterwards. Hey, those of you that stuck through, I appreciate you.

49:39Come say hi to me on social media and LinkedIn. Until next time, here's to the deal.

49:55Thank you for taking the time to explore the world of M &A with our podcast. We love hearing feedback. Tag us on a LinkedIn post, add a review on Apple Podcasts. We'd love to hear from you. If you need help standing up an M &A function or optimizing one that you already have, we're here to help. And if we can't help you, we probably know someone that can. You can reach out to me by email, Kisan, K-I-S-O-N, at mascience.com. or you can text me directly at 312-857-3711. If you just want to keep learning at your own pace, visit mascience.com for a lot more content and resources. That's where you can also subscribe to our newsletter.

50:40Again, that's mascience.com. Here's to the deal.

51:03Thank you.