Amanda Owen on raising her nine children in the countryside

0:00At Boar's Head, we've been going back to school for over 115 years. And this year, every school lunch is reason to celebrate with the flavors your kids love and the exceptional quality you expect. Helping you make school lunch fresh, easy, and delicious. Ring the bell. The deli is open. Boar's Head. Committed to craft since 1905. It takes the hits, runs the miles, rebuilds while you sleep. It's felt every fall, every dance floor, every belly laugh. And in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor and this is Back Your Body, the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have.

0:50The one you have with your body. From scars to self-care, the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love, we're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them, or finally learned to listen to them. It's time to back your body the way it's always back to you. Back your body. Subscribe now, your body will thank you.

1:13Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space, where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week, we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts, and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review.

1:46You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hello, it's just me today. And I think most kids are back to school now, or maybe all kids are back to school now. It is just me because we tried to record this episode during the school holidays, and we all know what that's like. For our guest, who has a lot of children, it was very difficult to find anywhere to be where she didn't have, you know, kids talking to each other or making things in the background. So this was, yeah, this is the second time we chatted to her. And it's, and it is just me.

2:27But I really enjoyed this episode. It was one of those where, you know, you think you don't, you're not going to have a lot in common with someone necessarily because you lead such different lives. And maybe the way you think you parent is really different. But actually, although we live literally worlds apart and miles apart, we had so much in common and there was so much that I took from this episode in how I might look at parenting in future and also just that raising our children in different worlds. But actually, is it all building the same similar foundations? So I think we should just get into it rather than me waffling onto myself.

3:11So today, author of her brand new book, Christmas Tales from the Farm, she's a shepherdess, mum to nine children. You may know her from her Channel 4 show, Our Yorkshire Farm. It's Amanda Rowan. Amanda, welcome to the podcast. Second time lucky, let's hope. Yeah, my problem always is with distraction. So it came as no surprise that we had to abandon things when things became just a bit too raucous. Yeah. Do you know what? It's real life. And also, selfishly on Monday, I'd only had three hours sleep and I was quite pleased when we got to reschedule because then my head could be more in it because we've been really looking forward to this chat.

3:56I'm gonna ask why you only got three hours sleep was it because of um small people or was it because you are out on the town well neither actually we were just on our way back from um our summer holidays and we landed late and then I'd booked a food shop very early which is always seems like the right thing to do um and then it's not is it no no one wants to be up early you never is the right time for a shoe food shop come on I'm the kind of parent he was like what what why are supermarkets doing this 24 hour thing who is going to be in Tesco in the middle of the night hello it's me now we've I've got so many questions for you um but we always start by asking our guests to give a little insight into their life so what how's your morning been I'm expecting this to be different to mine?

4:49Oh well every morning is different you know the worst question you can ask somebody a particular farmer is is is what's a typical day because there isn't one. So the sun is shining it's a little bit chilly out there it feels a little bit autumnal but it's beautiful and bright. Being out basically I've got one two three four five children have headed off to their various different schools some of them have to leave it at just after seven because it takes them a couple of hours some of them leave just after eight because it's a little bit closer I've got um two that are working five six seven one that's homeschooled so has a tutor and one that actually has moved out so I've only actually lost one so far I have to do I have to do a bit of a head count so I do a bit of a head count see where see where I've got everybody and then it's kind of I try and organize what is happening today so I've got a builder in a um doing a renovation I had ordered off Amazon um a new chain for my chainsaw only thing was I pressed the wrong button and I've got the wrong size so after dismantling the bar of the chainsaw and going through all that I've discovered that it won't fit so now it's back to square one with that we've put us dog around a load of sheep so we're spurning that means it's we're weaning we're taking the lambs away from their mothers lambs into one field yow's into another field so there's a lot of noise going on it's very noisy at the moment and when we've gathered we've also gathered a handful of strays in as well goodness knows where those woolly wanderers have been but they're standing waiting to be clipped after i've finished with you here i've also lit the fire kind of roughly put a load of things in the dustbin ish um fed the dogs um and cast my eye over the horses and mentally planned what the other things that i have to do of which there are many so yeah tomorrow I've got a photo shoot so it kind of goes from high glamour to sort of like low level pretty much shoveling of the proverbial and yeah I mean one extreme to the other completely I mean you did mention before we started recording that you'd had a lot of cups of tea and we've got that in common because I've also had quite a few cups of tea yeah yeah yeah that's my do-tour that literally is my it's a cup of tea if i'm happy it's a cup of tea if i'm stressed it's a cup of tea if i'm sort of drowning my sorrows always a cup of tea and i literally every so often i have to go out and sort of do a sort of sweep of the yard to find them all because unlike having cups in it all over the the house they just spread everywhere everywhere yeah now Now, I want to start the chat off with just talking about your children because it's a parenting podcast.

7:53And then obviously we'll get into all the various projects that you're working on now. You've got nine kids. Yes. That is a lot of kids for anyone, by anyone's standards. That's a lot of kids. Is that, did you always want to have a big family? Never. No, not even considered it, not even thought about it. My life has been about never planning anything. thinking about ideals and where I'd like to be and where I'd like to go and what I'd like to do but never actually believing that could ever actually come to fruition or happen and when it comes to parenting the first time I had actually held a baby was when I had Raven I didn't even know what the and I sound so stupid but I didn't even know about sort of like baby groves and vests it was all completely totally and utterly new to me it was um certainly a baptism of fire should we say it was all to do with obviously you have to be meet the right person and crucially if you're going to have a big family I think you have to live in a place that allows that because I think yeah of course likely go insane if not yeah I I think with nine children you definitely need the space yes definitely now we've you know we've sort of read a lot about how you know how you raise your children and you know your life is not conventional at all I guess you know most people listening to this might you know have a nine-to-five job and live in a suburb and that's you know the life that a lot of us live but you um obviously live you know live on a farm and you didn't send any of your children to nursery.

9:35Is that right? Absolutely correct. Just purely and selfishly for logistical reasons. For logistical reasons. For logistical reasons, but also, don't you think with parenting, you know, you have to make things fit. You know, I mean, everybody's situation is certainly unique and it's always a difficult one when people say, oh you know top tips parenting it's it is like you say it's kind of molding molding your life and the way that bring your children up and doing the best jobs that you can do and pretty much living in the countryside and living isolated and rural is a wonderful thing but it has its downsides too in other words you're a long way from medical help you're a long way from school you're certainly a very long way from any sort of nursery facilities public transport anything like that so you know what you what you get on the one hand you don't have in another way so thinking about the idea of ever sending any of the children sort of preschool I enjoyed and liked the freedom that they had around the farm and I thought that they took more from that than they ever could have done by going to nursery so it it also it also tied very much in with how I felt as well I feel like living at a place like this it certainly molds your thinking it certainly makes you you look at parenting and your whole self your whole being really in a in a different kind of a way so and I think that that that I'm lucky because it means that I really don't have to draw comparisons yeah I feel like that's probably the hardest thing for parents now to spend your whole life trying to trying to keep up with whatever it is that you're supposed to be doing because invariably the rules are always changing you know everything from I remember even just do the course of having nine pregnancies going from Raven being born in 2021 and it all been about um sort of terry nappies and using real nappies that was yeah and that was the way and then everybody realized that in order to do that you had to literally be using a hot wash and chemicals and and then it was back to actually you need to be using disposables we had the do you do you sleep your baby on the back do you sleep them on the front do you swaddle and with each one it always became different you know at one stage I was taking blood thinners because I was going to get a blood clot and at another stage I was taking a clotting agent because I was going to bleed out so it's just like yeah it's that's so that do you know what it's that's so true and I think there is a bit of a movement now um you know with a lot of parents about looking at what the norms are and you know it's particularly with school like you've just said like you didn't send your kids to nursery because you live really far away from nurseries and why would you want to do that because they can get you know there's so much to be had living on the farm obviously being around their siblings did you mentioned you homeschool one of your children was homeschooling like did you could not consider just homeschooling everybody I did I did yeah I did I think you know getting older because I'm I'm 50 now I think getting older you get a bit more confidence I also if if I was being honest about it Raven my oldest always says oh you just practiced on me you were just learning what you were doing so by the time you get to sort of your ninth their childhood is very different to the to the older children you get your confidence a bit more you you feel you feel in a stronger place I know Reuben who is my second oldest says oh I you know he's like I think he feels a bit cheated because he would have loved to have been homeschooled because he is of the same mindset as as Sydney who is homeschooled but at that point it was kind of beyond the pale you know it was a very you know you really were sort of pushing the boundaries if you did homeschooling there was a little bit of a sort of general consensus that you're a bit sort of out there if you're doing that kind of thing and it has become mainstream now the reason our homeschool is not for any reason other than having it's not following a trend other than having nine children they all have such different characters so it's not a question of saying you're all going to be homeschooled because I don't believe that would set them all all up for the best start in life but it's looking at each child individually they're not like peas in a pod not only have i got everything from olive skinned to fair skinned from ginger to brunette to redheads to freckles to just yeah don't get me wrong it's not they all are a matching set but they're all so different in their ways their mannerisms their likes their dislikes and for Sydney he wasn't ever naughty because they absolutely know that get any detention at a school that is 27 miles away which maybe you might say well that's not that far but it is even if you put your foot down it is country miles you can't get there and in any less than an hour in a car so the thought of having to drop everything and go and actually pick up a child then come back that's two hours even if you just turn straight around and come back yeah so woe betide anybody who basically gets um gets a detention because actually the worst the worst punishment is not the detention the worst punishment is coming out of school and working out how the heck you are gonna get home and when you travel for four hours on a bus as well that also impacts on your days as well because there is no room for anything else you can't do after school clubs you know the other children would have had four extra hours in every day to do the homework so you know Sydney would get back and it was either it was like literally school bed school bed yeah that's that is tough what age did he come out of mainstream school he came out at 13 13 do you wish you did it earlier

16:33um no not really not really because he didn't he didn't get in any trouble he didn't waste anybody's time or anything along the trajectory that we took I think if anything in it needed to get to that time to know that was the right thing to do in my mind yeah I toyed with the idea thought about it thought about it and sometimes it takes it takes a certain it takes you to be at a certain place and having a having the right conversation and to be looking at a school report to say what is going on here Sydney and you know when I have to tell him off again and say look you haven't been doing your homework and he is saying to me mum when I come home I want to go out on the farm I want to help around the farm I want to be on with the animals and doing the engineering and that kind of thing.

17:26I haven't got time to do any of that because my school day is four hours longer than everybody else's. Sometimes it's about priorities. We'll be right back after this short break.

17:42At Boar's Head, we've been going back to school for over 115 years. And this year, Every school lunch is reason to celebrate with the flavors your kids love and the exceptional quality you expect. Helping you make school lunch fresh, easy and delicious. Ring the bell. The deli is open. Boar's Head. Committed to craft since 1905. It takes the hits, runs the miles, rebuilds while you sleep. It's felt every fall, every dance floor, every belly laugh. And in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor and this is Back Your Body, the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have.

18:33The one you have with your body. From scars to self-care, the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love, we're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them or finally learned to listen to them. it's time to back your body the way it's always back to you. Back your body. Subscribe now. Your body will thank you.

18:57Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? And how do you manage all of the different kids, their personalities, their needs? Because I've got two who are really different, but there's two of us. And we can divide and conquer a lot of the time. But I cannot imagine how you do that with nine. Well, I would absolutely say that obviously you only have a certain capacity for what you can actually do and achieve. But in a way, I believe that that gives them strength and resilience. Yeah. Because they have to be more independent. I don't have to teach them independence. They can do it.

19:43Put it this way. Behind me, there's an Arga. the other day I was saying to the children I said I've got to go and shift some of the horses I said get yourselves up make yourself some breakfast when I came down here literally they were doing themselves like um the the soft spongy American style pancakes doing them on the hot plate you know right on top of the agar so they'd lifted the lid yeah hot plate nobody ever knows what temperature an agar is it's all very much wavy hung over the top and guess is it and move things about but Nancy who is only eight was literally there with one of the spatulas flipping them and testing the temperature by sort of like gently gently using her things and I thought I'm so proud of you yeah I am so proud of you because you know if that was something whereby she would you know she could sort of really burn herself terribly then that would be a different matter but there are certain lessons and certain things that you can do we're very risk averse we are very very risk averse as a society yeah and that doesn't necessarily in the long run make for a safer life for your children that's a really interesting point actually because I was I was going to ask you about that and I think you know you you are living a life that is miles away from the life that you know I live currently but I do think about this a lot and I think about how much we try to protect our children and we know like from our own experiences in our own life that actually you learn really from doing things that's the only way that you learn and how do you balance that I guess on a farm I guess they get a lot of freedom yes but there are I'm guessing there will be lots of risks absolutely tons of risks you know you don't have to go so very far to find something that could kill you yeah every which way that you can go you can find that okay but you also have to look at almost the things where you're not looking that can get you as well sometimes the obvious risk is the easiest risk you know so we're surrounded by water this um summer the children decided they would do what they call a streak which is basically every single day they would swim and i know it's being rebranded as wild swimming but for us it's just not going to swimming all right it's not and and literally come hell or high water they did this so sometimes it would be when it was cold and a little bit rainy sometimes when it was sunny sometimes when it was insect ridden and then but as we got towards the end of the school holidays the sort of parameters kept changing it was like right what can we do different this time so then it became after the old rem song it became night swimming so we waited for a night when there was a full moon and a starry night and and I filled some oil lanterns and we went down to the waterfalls and they swam at night so if you think to yourself okay so there's four or five children there jumping in off the the top of the waterfall and they're swimming in complete inky blackness with just the stars and they'd swim on days when there'd been a bit more rain and there was a bit more current in the river.

23:14And at each point I would say, right, we're going to go and have a look and we're going to gauge it, we're going to assess it and please do go in when it has been raining so you can feel the force of that water and then you know. because I remember as a child anything that my parents said I shouldn't do it instantaneously made me question why they were telling me not to do it and probably that it was something incredibly exciting that they didn't want me to know anything about you know the drink cupboard anything like that don't drink don't drink don't drink don't do this don't do that and that sort of don't attitude almost makes it more alluring Of course.

23:59Yeah, absolutely. I was thinking about this the other day with just like stupid stuff like food and all of that kind of stuff. Because the stuff you're told you don't want, you shouldn't have, you want even more. But if actually no one had said anything, you probably wouldn't have wanted it in the first place. The minute you put a ban on something, it becomes sort of like, it's like illicit pleasure, isn't it? Yeah. You know, you know from yourself that is how it is. So it's not pretty much a free-for-all, but it's funny how if you sort of go with it, it finds its own balance and place. it always made me smile that you know when I when I put pictures upon line people will sort of look look at them quite nostalgically like oh goodness look there there's um one of the children riding a horse that is wonderful that reminds me of my childhood hang on a minute hang on a minute she hasn't got the right shoes on or she hasn't got the right safety equipment on or she hasn't got the right and it's again it's that balance of what do they get out of it what could they lose from it and sort of balancing the odds, you're going to fall off.

25:09If you don't want the risk of falling off a horse, you must never get on one. We'll be right back after this short break.

25:20At Boar's Head, we've been going back to school for over 115 years. And this year, every school lunch is reason to celebrate with the flavours your kids love and the exceptional quality you expect. Helping you make school lunch fresh, easy and delicious. Ring the bell. The deli is open. Boar's Head. Committed to craft since 1905. It takes the hits, runs the miles, rebuilds while you sleep. It's felt every fall, every dance floor, every belly laugh. And in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor and this is Back Your Body the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have, the one you have with your body from scars to self-care the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love we're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them neglected them, rebuilt them or finally learned to listen to them it's time to back your body the way it's always back to you back your body, subscribe now your body will thank you

26:35Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? Do you think that, I mean, you've got nine children, do you think they will want to continue the life that they're currently, you know, living right now? Or have you got a few that, you know, are sort of wanting to try something different? Oh, yeah, definitely. This is, I always call this like, these are the foundation skills. This is grassroots level, pardon the pun. this sets them up for whatever they want to do because the skills they learn here on the farm are the can-do attitude, the resilience the independence the birds and the bees from a practical point of view they get to see all empathy where their food comes from the climate, the weather and as time has progressed you can so much of what is currently in the headlines and in the sort of in the bigger picture stems from the environment the climate where our food comes from animal welfare etc etc so you've got all that and on top of that you've got a work ethic you've got the seasons You know, if something is hard, if something is difficult, I do believe that what you get back from that is equally of more benefit.

28:05so when it comes to the children some of them clemmy um sydney and miles they're very keen on the livestock and the farming but things change the dynamics were always changing different ideas different opportunities edith is um 17 she's very beautiful she can do perfect perfect eyebrows and an eyeliner flicks everything else and you know she can she just she just has a good heart she works at local pub and she's also um studying but she says I don't know whether I want to go to university I don't know what I want to do I said and does that worry you and she's like don't know I said well don't I said because ever since you were literally able to carry a tea tray and able to tip a sheep upside down you have worked so whether she's been whether she's been beating for the local shoot whether she's been working in the pub whether she's been helping with the holiday let like turning over a holiday home she can and does work so I just said don't fret about it do not worry about it because it will come to you it will find you some people know right from the word go what they want to do and what they want to be others don't my oldest daughter raven she's um she did biomedicine and literally is now um a scientist she does something that can't quite remember what it is but i did record her saying what her official job was it was something polychromatography something or other i was like okay and she was like and that And that isn't my success.

30:00No. That is her success. And I mean, jokingly, she will say, do you know what? I achieved that purely and entirely by being dragged up. Because, you know, she was the one who literally would come home having filled in the school form and just say, I filled it in, Mother. Sign it. Okay. And off I would go. She would be the one who said, oh, yeah, it's World Books Day today. I'm going as myself because I can do Because you've written a book and I'm in it So therefore I'm going to sidestep all that other stuff Don't worry about it It's so hard for parents with people telling you what you should and shouldn't be doing I mean it doesn't, you know, the task, the job Doesn't get any easier But I feel like It might sound selfish to say it But your children aren't the be-all and end-all if you are not in a fit state to be the parent and be somebody that they they have overseeing there to to sort of put your arms around them or lift them up or or tell them off should they sort of require it if you're not in a fit state to do that if you haven't got that capacity then that's no good so yeah do some stuff for yourself as well it do you know what it's so interesting you know what you're saying about the foundations and ultimately like I think social media is amazing and the internet's amazing for being able to see different worlds how different people live and educate ourselves and all that kind of stuff it is incredible but I do think as well that it's got us so many of us muddled with what's right what's wrong and actually probably there are there are not many things that are that black and white right and wrong and it you know how you're you're talking about raising your children on the farm and and and actually the the building blocks and the foundations that that creates is amazing like I think so many of us are trying to make life easy for our kids yeah and you know we want to make it easy want to make it easy but sometimes it is the the struggles that creates the resilience and actually creates the work ethic.

32:15That's the thing. You are so right. And believe me, of course, I go to bed, usually quite late on the night or early in the morning, and I will think, oh, my goodness, the children are going back to school. They're going to have to write that same essay, what I did during the school holidays. and I will think well they went off the farm twice once to go and pick some plums and another time when I promised that I would take them to Primark because I had to go and pick some tires up right and then I think to myself and I know very well that some of the other kids will have been on a foreign holiday and some of them will have been to water parks or Alton Towers but then I think to myself right okay but what have they had they've actually been ridden their horses and taken them in the river with their swimming costumes on they've they've swum outside under the stars all the rest of it now people will go oh well that's amazing you know that is the benefits and joys of not being online well I'm afraid I'm gonna have to break it to you that we do online as well yeah it is yeah because you know what what sort of a hypocrite would i be to go oh we're living in an internet free blah blah well you're not going online i couldn't do any of the things that have made it that this life is possible without the internet yeah when you live rural when you live isolated it's the best thing as i couldn't do the tutoring the home school thing without the internet yeah I mean it has been an absolute lifeline so to say oh well you know internet all bad I must admit I am blessed because there is no mobile signal so once you go out the door into the fields it doesn't work no one can ring you so there is no danger if you're out there you're on you're on your own well you're probably not on your own you're probably surrounded by sheep horses cows frogs something so usually someone following you it's always worrying if there's sort of one if one child I'm like like okay so I've got one child missing but I've got two dogs missing that's good that's good they're together yeah exactly exactly so it's kind of like working it out in your head because it quite often they'll say things like we're just going to the waterfall and I'll go yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and then I'll be like like a few hours later I'll be like this sounds like we're going to waterfall which waterfall are they going to that one are they going to that one you know they have no concept of ownership yeah the place that interests me vastly because of course where we live because it's over a big acreage big area they think totally and utterly nothing of taking a straight line to wherever they're going yeah they will go over walls other fences under burrows you name it in a straight line to wherever they need to be oh so so i always remember going we had some sheep that were aware during the winter we send our young sheep away to um fields in kinder climes and for whatever reason i'd taken taken two or three of the children with me and whilst gathering the field up with the dog the children were like oh we're gonna go off and explore and i was like yeah yeah yeah anyway when they actually finally returned i said oh where have you been you've been away a while oh well went over there and in their garden they've got a shed and you won't believe what we found in the shed and i'm like oh my god they've actually been through everybody's back garden through the greenhouse breaking and entering yeah exactly exactly because of course our spaces are open to everybody and people come from far and wide walkers campers swimmers you name it yeah it's like come and look at this come and see that and explain to us that you know we get everything from botanists ecologists all the rest of it so they didn't kind of get the idea that people would say that's mine what are you doing in my shed yeah do they ever do they ever ask you you mentioned about going to autumn towers and water parks and all that do they ever ask you to do those things do you know what they don't no they've never asked me and i never i always thought it was something that they could always look forward to when they're older and I feel like it's not about saying right you're here you're staying here this is your life this is it in a way this is preparation life skills for how to remain safe when you do go out there because because because you've kind of got you've got the capacity and understanding to be able to handle yourself.

37:05And pretty much it's all there for the taking. It's all to look forward to. I'm like thinking to myself, you know, the last film that I saw at a cinema, Titanic, three hours of watching people drowning, it's not my thing. Yeah. These guys, they got the opportunity to go down to Leeds. It would have been nearly a year ago. because the program that we had been making did put on a special screening so they could see it in the cinema. So I went down there, drove down there, and literally they were so excited. They said, oh, we're going to Leeds. Who knows what you might find? It's before Christmas.

37:49Who knows what you might get? Well, they looked all over. Believe me, they looked and looked and looked. but we came away with some lint chocolate and literally i spent the remainder of the day watching them go up and down escalators

38:10yeah i mean i guess you you never know what until you've until you've seen it you don't know what you're going to like and i guess for them they are probably pretty happy with the exploring that they get to do think to myself okay so we've got clothes we've all got clothes we live in hand-me-downs That doesn't mean we're raggedy raggedy because, I mean, I go out as part of my work and I dress up and they've got clothes that they dress up in as well. But the clothes that they dress up in last forever. So, because they never, ever get worn out. And then, you know, when the weather's okay, I'm just like, just wear it.

38:45Just wear it. I mean, I've got a great picture that I might put up online of Clemmie a few days ago. And she's in the sheet pens and she was helping me. so I was I was arm clipping and doing some some feed and there was a a very big girl Gia would come in and and she said I'll get her for you I said okay I don't know if you're strong enough anyway it's all about technique rather than strength and she has the technique so she managed to tip this Yau over and as I stood there looking at her she had her white tour cap wellies on that I fondly call her hospital wellies, her mortuary wellies, because they're white.

39:27You know, they're not your average green farming ones. I think they're probably cheap from somewhere. So she's got a pair of white, ill-fitting, because, you know, there are wellies and there are wellies. There's like Cape Moss, Glastonbury, nicely fitted, beautiful wellies. And then there's just, yeah, just your, and that's what these were. and she was wearing with that a black and white sundress with a satin ribbon around the middle that literally was like Amy Winehouse style with sort of like a fitted flair. So there she was. What a picture this was. Yeah. She's there in a dress with these wellies with the sheep upside down holding it kind of with one hand.

40:06And I thought, you know what? That is all good. It's great. Because, you know, you can't, it can be difficult. when we talk about about life and reality people say well you know that is reality that's how it always used to be that's that's a traditional way of bringing up the children and I'll take that on board absolutely but I also don't live in a world where I know that that is the be all and end all because it isn't because there's a whole other world out there yeah and teaching them resilience in that world is equally as important you know when we set off you know it was just the dawn of the internet it certainly hadn't reached these parts I remember having having Ruben and he was premature um and he was like a three pounder so you know he was you know there was all kinds of issues and troubles there but I remember actually being at the hospital and trying to find somebody who had a fax machine that I could fax the worst black and white grainy picture.

41:18Oh, my gosh. Tiny sort of like frail looking thing with a head the size of a tennis ball in an incubator. Oh, my gosh. So how times have moved on, eh? Yeah, absolutely. And just before we go, because I can't believe we've been chatting for so long, I could literally talk to you forever. Do you want to just tell us about your new book? Because that's why we're on. And I actually can't wait to read it to my kids. I hope they enjoy it. Again, as a parent, what do you want to do? You want to be a role model, but you've got to be careful not to be a martyr. Because that's rubbish. That doesn't teach them anything.

42:00Role model. And if you're going to be a role model, that doesn't mean that you can always avoid trouble. it's how you negotiate your way through it what you do about it that's far more useful and and also taking opportunities writing the book it was an opportunity and I'm always saying to the children I don't wish you to be lucky I wish you to have opportunities and for you to take them so I have to be true to my words so when Penguin come along massive publishing company published a lot of the sort of classics I'm like I'm gonna give it a go what have I got to lose so I go you know I go down to down to the offices and sit there and they're like so children's books like what what what what have you got what material have you got to write about and I'm like uh because in my usual disorganized sort of way I'm like um wow you know uh and I'm saying do you know what I haven't really written anything down I haven't really got a book proposal I haven't actually really got anything on paper to give you an example because I'll be dead honest with you I've been really really busy because you won't believe what happened and then it's like and there you go I was gonna say I think there's plenty of material absolutely and the problem is of course it that that is how it is because I've got a lot going on and because I'm working with all the things that you tell you not to work with children and animals it it's the gift that keeps giving it also means that that your days are are very full because because because this is all happening this is all reality what I wanted to do was write a children's book that wasn't particularly sort of a sort of here's how kind of a how-to guide but something that was real in this day of artificial intelligence cgi all the rest of it there is i feel a certain a certain overriding feeling that reality is either fake like you're looking at a reality program where everything is just perfect and yeah nobody ever falls out and there's never any handprints on the wallpaper and everything's always just so um or just so far removed from your own life that is unattainable and unachievable so what I wanted to do was write about something that was real something that that the children or at least their parents might have followed along with um by the television and via the other books these are across the generations and um something something that I believe is important for everybody the countryside what you can see out of your window where your food comes from it's a starting point it's a conversation starter something to make you smile sometimes something to make you cry because believe me i have and not not only in frustration whilst i've been like trying to do things and there's everything going on around me but but but literally a book a book that i would enjoy reading because i would know that it was real and that any element of it I could go into deeper and the bottom line is when you got to the end page and your child said but is it real they could say yeah and you know what next summer we might be heading up that way and we'll go past the farm and we'll see if we can see the goats we'll see if we can see the horses they can keep up with it you can't take you know you We can't, it's like anything.

45:48Media, whether that be social media, books, podcasts, whatever. There are some brilliant, brilliant things that you can do using this marvellous technology. There's some absolutely terrible things too. Yeah, absolutely. And that is how it is. So that is what we have to teach the children, isn't it? I love that. Thanks, Amanda. That has been such a great chat. I so enjoyed talking to you. Oh, you too. I really have. Thank you. Thank you for doing this. I would just love for the parents that listen to the podcast to sort of say the advice is basically listen to people, but go your own way. because you really do have to it's the worst thing it's the worst thing ever to sort of have to to just to invest so much effort and thought process into into what is currently the fashion only to find out that five ten years down the line it's something else and you were doing it and it didn't work for you exactly exactly oh thank you so much thank you i'm wondering what you guys are thinking after that episode are you now planning an escape to rural Yorkshire or I don't know somewhere else and thinking about bringing your kids up on a farm I mean I'm not gonna lie I definitely loved Amanda and how much you know she kind of showed the resilience and preparation for the real world that life on the farm does for kids but I'm definitely not about to uproot my kids and live on a farm.

47:31I actually think they would probably like it. I just think I would probably struggle. I wonder what Zoe's going to think as well because I think she's probably more suited to that. I think she would enjoy that life. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed it and we would love your feedback. As always, we would love you to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast. Five-star review. I know people go on about it all the time, but they really helped. So if you could do that for us, we would really appreciate it. And if you want to drop us a message, we're on Instagram on at Made by Mamas. And we'll be back on Friday.

48:15At Boar's Head, we've been going back to school for over 115 years. And this year, every school lunch is reason to celebrate. with the flavors your kids love and the exceptional quality you expect. Helping you make school lunch fresh, easy, and delicious. Ring the bell. The deli is open. Boar's Head. Committed to craft since 1905. It takes the hits, runs the miles, rebuilds while you sleep. It's felt every fall, every dance floor, every belly laugh and in return it asks for nothing it just keeps going i'm ellie taylor and this is back your body the podcast from holland and barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have the one you have with your body from scars to self-care the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love we're talking to people about the bodies they live in how they've pushed them neglected them rebuilt them or finally learned to listen to them it's time to back your body the way it's always back to you.

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