Amy Neville Exposes The Modelling Industry

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2:02Georgia Dayton: Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week, we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, We're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review.

2:35Georgia Dayton: You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hello, mate. Happy Tuesday. Happy Tuesday. How are you? What's going on? I'm all right, you know. What's going on? I really don't have... It's not a great way to start a podcast, is it? To be like, I don't really have that much going on, but I've had quite a nice day today with Luna. We're trying to do forest walks in the mornings. That's awesome. So to the gym and then take the dog for a walk for an hour. And I've been doing all this research that in Japan, if people are suffering from like bad mental health, they go for these beautiful forest walks.

3:08Georgia Dayton: So that's what we've been doing. That's what we've been doing. And Luna's been loving it. So that's been really nice. Do you know what? I really think we've been talking about habits a lot in the house and we find that as soon as the summer holidays hit, the kids get into this like slobby mindset which I totally get like they're knackered like I really understand it but James is like how amazing if we just made things a habit for them because you know how difficult it is and isn't as an adult to make a good habit so like get up make your bed get dressed come downstairs move like go for a walk and then it just becomes part of daily life so we've been trying to do that with them.

3:50Georgia Dayton: I'd say one child is much better than the other at making her bed, getting dressed and not being a slob. Fine. You haven't given us any hints there. No hints there at all. I'm actually reading Atomic Habits. Oh, yes. I've got that on audio. I haven't actually listened to it very much. But you should start in all your car journeys when you're dropping Axel off. That is a good idea. And you have to drive an hour each way, George. Yeah. Regretting my life choices. I mean, the joke of it is I'm sending him off on like 11 plus camp, like study, study, study. And then I go down my phone and I've got a daughter who thinks she's a YouTuber.

4:33Georgia Dayton: Right. So I've got, listen, I mean, listen to it. It's me, me and Isabella, but today it's just me. So I'm going to show you this pull-up bath. Very cute. Oh, my God. Why has she got an American twag? What the hell? It's very cute. It's very cute. And she says things like, I'm going to show you my bedroom. Don't blame me if it makes you go to Dunelm after. I'm like, oh, my God. What the hell? But if I go on my phone to look like I'm going to watch it, she goes, don't. That's private. And I'm thinking, well, he's on my phone. My phone, love. thing is though don't knock it because we could we could we could be earning a fortune off her that's true should we should we sign her up yes let's be her managers right now the momingers um george we need to get into today's conversation because what a conversation we had i know sometimes we say that but actually both george and i when today's guest left the studio we both went oh my god it was jaw-dropping in parts the insight that she gave us to an industry that she's been a part of for what 20 odd years was incredible yeah and actually it's quite scary yeah I think a lot of us bury our heads in the sand you know with a lot of things and I think as so many parents do and you think oh by the time you know our kids are older it will all have changed and then when you hear that a lot of things are still happening it's really unsettling yeah um yeah I mean actually not a trigger warning but I would say there's some stuff in there that you wouldn't want to listen to around your kids correct and actually before we get into the conversation we just want to say a massive thank you to our guest on the pod today because it can't have been easy for her to go back to some of those places and talk to us about some of the horrific things that have happened to her it's not all doom and gloom she's come out of it the other side a really confident, happy, you know, incredible mum.

6:34Georgia Dayton: But yeah, parts of it, like George said, maybe just listen on your own. Georgia, who are we talking to today? We are chatting to Amy Neville. Hello and welcome to Tuesday's episode of the podcast. I already have a feeling that today's conversation is going to be brilliant. She's a model, a mum of two, someone who's been in the fashion industry for years and can give us an insight into her life outside of the glamorous world of photo shoots and beyond. It's Amy Neville. Amy how are you? I'm good I'm good tired. How's your morning been? Surviving the summer holidays it's hard it's hard as you know it's chaos you have to be very organized and it's something I'm not naturally actually very good at so being a mum I've really had to like get organized yeah you have to run it like militant.

7:17It's literally like it's like running some sort of military

7:20Georgia Dayton: operation yeah it is and you're right if you're not naturally organized it's really difficult Yeah, yeah. My husband is like, you're very micromanaging me. You tell me what to do. And I'm like, well, if I don't, like today he's taking the kids out. I have to get them ready. He's like, where do I go? I'm like, can you not just think where to go? I've got to go to work. We were talking about this, about how men need to stop using women's brains. Yes. I thought we've got a guest on after you who made a phone reel on this. And I cannot wait to dive into it with him because they don't even look like my husband.

7:49Georgia Dayton: I'll be like, where are your car keys? And I'm like, dude, have you even looked in the car food drawer? and then they get annoyed that you're nagging I'm like this is why I'm nagging just do it yeah over stimulation when you're like you've got kids off and you're working and then you've got to like offload parts of your knowledge to somebody else yeah no it's hard work and the school like half started school last year it's like homework she'd come home from like work and then you have to do homework and the bedtime routine and my kids don't go to bed till like half nine they're just not very good sleepers how old are your kids uh five and almost four wow so you were in the trenches kind of I feel like not as much I did the two under two and it is easier now I've kind of I feel like a much better person now yeah what do you just feel happier in yourself I feel like I'm thriving all of a sudden whereas I was like surviving and actually wasn't very happy in that stage and I look back and I thought I was okay and I wasn't and I think a lot of people don't talk about that like for me I thought I was doing okay but I went back to work a week after both my c-sections and people thought I was mad and I got so much hate for it but I was very adamant I didn't want to lose who I was and like my identity but I got judged for that which really upset me because I thought I actually just don't want to lose who I am but people were and like in the industry the fashion industry it moves so quickly if you take your name out they forget you they do just take us back just before we get into the chat just a bit you know background on you you're a model how long have you been modeling for how did you get into it um so I've been modeling since I was 16 but I did loads of other jobs in the beginning I was an estate agent I worked in retail like it didn't happen overnight you have to build your portfolio but then I moved to London at 17 but then I was traveling around the world and it kind of took off after four or five years it didn't happen straight away for me the agencies said I need to change a lot about myself I didn't have much confidence and the thing is actually one thing that changed was when I started to believe in myself I actually suffer with like confidence issues and people probably look at me and think oh you're attractive and like you do modeling like but I don't think that myself and I heard actually Katie Price talking about it and I really like related to like body dysphormia um body dysmorphia dysmorphia sorry yeah dysmorphia yeah because actually I feel like I have that and I don't think it stems from modeling I think I've just always worried what I look like what are those what are those moments like as a young woman trying to get into a world that we know is incredibly cutthroat is based on aesthetics yeah so talk us through some of those moments and how they've left you feeling so I went to a very good school my dad sent me to a very good school I was very privileged and I said I wanted to do modeling and my dad was like I don't think he really approved but then I started to like build my portfolio and it started to do well but I think it is an industry where people judge you straight away just to like an image like for me I can look very different I can go on a shoot and have my hair slicked and you're basically like creating art and I think that's what people get wrong about modeling they think that you're pretty that you can just be a model well it's much more to it than that it's very you've got to be business minded and very confident in yourself but yeah it is image based and I think especially when you come a mum that really I found that really hard because I all of a sudden was like postpartum I was still expected to look good and Julian McDonald actually booked me for a big campaign six weeks after and I was I'm going to have to go do it but the other girl I hadn't had kids and I was very different to her, but I was still trying to be in this industry and look good.

11:15And I felt a lot of pressure. I made myself ill. I ended up in hospital. Did you? Did you? Yeah, I just put so much pressure on myself to actually look a certain way. And I've chosen to do this job, so I'm not saying this is what I love. And I genuinely love fashion and I love creating like art with other creatives. It's not about me going, oh, I look good and I'm the least person like that. if you ask my husband I'm so insecure like I'm really deeply insecure.

11:41Georgia Dayton: Where do you think that insecurity comes from? My mum will hate me but my mum she will hate me for that but it's actually I think it stems from growing up my mum's beautiful but she's always looked at herself and thought she didn't look okay but I think as kids you actually watch everything your parents do and I watched my mum criticize herself and it's kind of rubbed off on me she'll hate me for this there's so many people who will be thinking exactly the same but it has come from that and like um that's why I don't want it for my girls but I say things in front of my girls and my husband's like stop saying this they're listening to you and like Harper actually said the other day I look scruffy but I say that and then I was like oh no she's picking it's so hard isn't it you're trying to live your life but your kids are picking up these things yeah and it's funny isn't it because there is a moment in your parenting journey where you can probably carry on saying those things when the kids are younger because they don't understand them.

12:36Georgia Dayton: And then suddenly you're faced with, you know, two young girls who understand what that means. Oh, yeah, half of it isn't. Yeah, you really have to look at yourself in the mirror at that point because we all say stuff off the cuff. We were saying last night to my daughter, oh, you know, I was such a dumbo at school and I found everything. I try and lie about these things. Yeah, but I don't know. I don't want to say because she's looking at me and thinking, even though I'm not the most intelligent person in the world, She's like, mommy, you're so smart. And I'm thinking, oh God, you don't know what I was like at school.

13:01No, I know. It's hard with her to be honest because Harper's started school and she's getting all these awards and she was at speech day, getting all these awards and she's like top of her class. And I'm like, I was never that child. My dad was like, go to a good school. And I just wasn't academic. I think you're either that way or you're not. But I'd say I'm more business minded. But you've got to work with what you've got. But it's hard with kids, isn't it? If they're different to you as well. But yeah, it's just eye opening being a mom. Like eye opening.

13:25Georgia Dayton: Is there anything that you... It's like a roller coaster. That you look back on about your modelling experience. And now you're a mum. You look at it with a different lens, you know. Oh, God. Like, I'm completely different now. Like, I've changed things about myself. People know I've had my lips done, for example. Like, I'm very open about that. But I was doing a video with Ruby Hammer recently, a beauty video. And we spoke about trolling. And I got trolled after doing a video with her. So I actually had my lips dissolved and redone. But the reason I had my lips done was because of modelling. I was on a job.

13:55And I can't remember the guy's name because I wish I did. but he said get her off she's got no lips and I was with four other models yeah he shouted he was like here and he said get her off she's got no lips and I was 20 very insecure anyway and I went off and I said to my mum I want to get my lips done so like things like that like I have changed things about myself and I'm honest about that I'm very honest and real and people will say what they

14:20Georgia Dayton: want like anyway what was that moment like for you oh my god awful I went home and cried and then I my lips done and then I started to have them done again and again it got to the point where my agent at the time said they've got too big but then I you can't see what you look like you know like you can't see it yeah everyone was like they're getting too big your lips are getting too big and that's why I related to Katie Price because I was like I kind of see how it happens yeah how is it okay in in a world for somebody to say that to a young woman who is trying modeling no but it It doesn't just exist in modelling.

14:55Georgia Dayton: It exists for women, unfortunately. And I feel like this battle that we've had to... People write stuff in the media. Oh, you know, Amy, 25, size, whatever. It's like, don't fucking sit there and say that about a man, do they? It's so true. Men age like fine wine. Women, you know, what she done to her face. We cannot get it right. No, I know. I know. And I do agree, like, because I did a video with Ruby years ago. And she met me when I was working with Next Catalogue. And I was an 18-year-old girl. I'd had nothing done. And she goes, but you looked good then. Like, why did you want to change yourself?

15:26But it's very hard when you're in an industry where everyone's scrutinizing every inch of you. Absolutely. Like, it's hard.

15:32Georgia Dayton: When people were saying to you, like, were they close friends, family, like you've gone to... Yes. Oh, my God, my mum used to cry. Did she? Yeah. Not could you hear them, but did you just think you're lying anymore? I was still getting booked, so I thought I looked good. Right. But you know what it's like with images? And a lot of the school mums probably look at me and think I'm a catfish. But modelling is creating art. you've got a whole team of people they put you in the right lighting you've got makeup artists hairstylists it's it's an image isn't it you're creating an image but I once the image was there and they photoshopped it I thought well I look good but in real life people are like what have you done and when you looked in the mirror or when you look in the mirror has there ever been a period where you felt completely comfortable with who you are as a person and how you look no no that's really sad isn't it I think it's modeling as well though as an in I'm not saying I'm not judging in any way but as an insecure person like you said why did what attracted you to the modeling industry I did it when I was a kid and I do come alive like I love the camera okay it actually like it's like yeah just I've become alive I love the camera and I love what it can do like you can angles and clothes can change you and people's perception of you and it's something I am good at like yeah I know I'm good at it and I'm very passionate I think if you're passionate about something you do well but um yeah people will say why do you do it but I do genuinely love it yeah but I think actually the older I'm getting it's harder definitely harder on yourself um I think while I was shooting this last week with a girl I was 22 I was in Marbella three weeks ago where the girl was 21 I'm 35 this week like I am getting older and I'm embracing getting older but it's I'm trying to think about different avenues when you say you know you're talking about women's ages yeah forget forget about them for a second how does it make you feel when you're standing there and you're having that comparison and that's impacting you I actually feel empowered now oh you do yeah I've birthed two children I think once you've had kids like people can say anything like I've literally birthed two humans like it's the most amazing magical thing I've ever done and anyone like it is genuinely the best thing I've ever done I used to be so career obsessed and now I am career obsessed but my husband sometimes says push your work more and I'm like I don't want someone else picking up my kids I want to be there for my children I want to be the best mom I can be so I think when you've had children it just changes you something in you changes oh my god I mean everything changes right yeah I think I think Jordan and I are quite interested around this sort of body dysmorphia and the confidence thing and also being under the scrutiny and the trolling yeah can we talk a little bit about what that I guess the lessons that you've learned through that trolling and the sort of comments that you're faced and how you respond to those and how it manifests yeah there was like a forum online that people were trolling me on and they were putting old pictures of me and that that did upset me and actually some of the things I did actually agree with what they were saying I thought oh god I have changed so much about myself so in a way they were trolling me but they kind of it was like reality um but it's really hard isn't it like when you're looking at yourself especially as a woman and postpartum and things change like I it's something that I deal with like inside anyone could say anything to me like oh you look amazing if you don't feel it doesn't matter does it no like my husband's like well you look good and you're obsessive what you look like and people will come probably judge me for this but I'm being completely honest this is how I feel yeah absolutely um it's funny how they tap into the darkest and deepest like they can see I got a message yeah how can they see yeah yeah I got a message yesterday on Instagram we're now calling him Bob the Knob because his name was Bob and he I posted a photograph of myself with my daughter and one of my really good friends in a bikini yeah he wrote back saying wow you literally have no tits at all right yeah people are awful I mean, fucking go figure boy.

19:32Georgia Dayton: Neuroscience is in the middle of the year. Like, of course I don't have any tits. I'm a size B verging on an A and I've breastfed two children. But it was a really interesting moment for me because that is the area that I've talked about it on here. The fact that I want to get a boob job. And it's like through the lens, suddenly somebody. But I was really angry. It's been the loudest voice over the last 40 hours in my head that I was looking at myself going, oh, my God. Bob thinks I've got no tits I haven't got any tits you know like it's so fucked up but we are human at the end of the day and I think people forget that and like anyone could say anything but it was still stay with you and I think one of the times actually that upset me the most out of anything was I went to my Pilates class and I went back after five weeks because I had two c-sections and this girl had taken a picture of me from behind sent it to me and she was like laughing saying I've sent this to my friend you shouldn't even be exercising and I thought and that bothered me Oh, so you were in a Pilates class.

20:28And she'd taken a picture of me.

20:29Georgia Dayton: And she took a photo of you. And sent it to me. And sent it to you. Yeah. And her friend. What a bitch. Yeah. I just think it's an unhappy person. That upset me because I was like, I'm now in my safe space at my Pilates class and someone in this room is judging me. And then I felt uncomfortable at going. And that's the only time I got upset with my husband. I thought, I don't feel comfortable going to my class now where I'm actually getting away from the kids for an hour in the evening. Just have some time for me. I thought I'm being judged That's not just judging Amy That's targeted for you No I know And I'm not in the limelight Like I'm on social media But I don't do much I've done the odd TV thing But I'm not a celebrity as such But that really I couldn't cope with it You know some people are tougher I know I couldn't cope with it I've got an agent who's like Can you do TV stuff I just couldn't cope with the scrutiny But what did you do Do you know who that person is And how did you handle that No I just blocked them I'm very much just blocked now We'll be right back After this short break

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24:09Georgia Dayton: Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? and what about in day-to-day life you know I can imagine going to like mum groups or baby groups and saying what you do for a living how do people react to it yeah they judge you and also I think a lot of the time they judge you like well you don't look like a model right now you know it's this kind of it's like this thing if I'm not no it is it is like I turned up to the school run before I go to shoots you know like top knot to have my hair done because I'm going off to shoot and I think half of them probably think oh you look a bit rough but that is real life interpretation or that has that been no I feel like I can see people thinking it I can maybe that's just me yeah but yeah I always feel like I have to look a certain way which is so sad it's actually sad me even saying it no it's not it's just honest this is I am just being honest now and like my Instagram is very glam and I like to look a certain way and that is purely for like getting booked for modeling jobs can you separate the two lives though because that's what I'm really trying to get I really want you to let's dive into that yeah I do more now because I did a job with Elizabeth Arden and one of the women there was like I think you need to separate the two like you're a mum but then that's your job and I do actually see my work now as more a job it's a career and I go home and I'm a normal person and I've got my head around that but when you first to have a baby I was like well I want to be this perfect mom with this baby and it just just didn't work it was so hard then I obviously had two under two and then it was game over I was like right I really can't keep this up now would you want your girls to go into not no no no no no yeah and what would you say to them like I've had a good career but it's not easy with modeling like you have to be a business woman as well like I was on a job with a girl and I think a lot of models and I'm going to get hate for this think they're entitled because they're good looking but it's not just about being good looking you've got to be business minded you have to put yourself out there you have to be hard working I pride myself on being a grafter people said to me no you're not going to get this job agency said no I was like I'll show you and I've done it and I've done some great things in my career but people said no but I am very determined I get that from my dad like very persistent but yeah it's not about just being a pretty face and I look at girls want them to go into it but yeah what's is it because of if they wanted to yeah but I think it would be a different industry by the time they get to that age anyway it won't be what it is now I've seen it change massively like it's a different industry and it keeps changing and but is it because is it because of how you have felt about yourself during the career in parts that you wouldn't want them to experience I'm only confident now and I'm 35 this week I've only just thought I don't give a shit anymore literally now like I don't know something switched to me and I think I couldn't I would come on here a year ago and I'd have been different I wouldn't have opened up I'd have been worried about what I was saying because I've done podcasts before and people hate because you're honest but I always used to think I can't say that because someone will think that about me I couldn't give a shit now honestly I can't I couldn't get something so beautiful something's changed I don't care really could not give I just they're gonna say something regardless so say it do you know what I mean I am who I am if you don't like it unfollow like this is me and how would you feel if your daughters felt the way you did like I would upset me I would upset you so Harper actually went to nursery and she's very shy my girls are actually naturally quite shy and Harper actually got Mary in the nativity and I wouldn't say I'm a pushy mum but I want them to be confident so Harper would come home and I'd be like be confident don't be shy like there's no time to be shy in life like you want to get somewhere be confident I wasted 15 years of my career being shy 15 years I used to walk out of castings I never felt as good as the other girls I had one casting director come out to me it was a massive job and she said I would have booked you but you've got no confidence all you did was put yourself down on camera and it was a big job and something switched in me that day and I thought I need to just try and be confident otherwise there's no point in me doing this job and I actually have got better but I just don't want that for my girls because there isn't time to be shy and you've got to be confident you've got to believe in yourself and it will save you years yeah it costs me a lot we instill confidence in our kids because it's difficult isn't it it's really difficult school is like an eye opener like I found school like Harper's five just she comes home she goes this person said this to me and I've I've got hairy legs she said to me and I thought where's she got that from she said oh someone said it to me at school and that upsets me but why do I why do we see that as an upset though because why hairy legs seem to be well no but she thinks that there's something wrong absolutely but that but then we've got the opportunity in that moment to turn around and say it's normal and to say hair is normal yeah it's because I was healthy it's because you're eating really well yeah exactly exactly but I think it is and social media like obviously I'm on social media but personally I don't really want my girls on social media which is quite contradicting because people are like well you're on it but it's helped my career but it's not what I want to do forever if I'm honest I've got an exit plan you've got an exit plan yeah yeah after Bob's comments about my tits I wanted to turn off social media I just think like I just thought it's created a forum inside I know that there's so much good that comes out of social media I really get that businesses helping people you know talk about stuff sharing making people feel less alone but actually at its at its core for me it's given it's opened up a world where people feel uh it's a next level of bullying where people can essentially whatsapp you yeah their hate yeah yeah and i just think there should be something done about that yeah the only time i agree with it like i had hyperemesis with both my girls and it was very severe i was bedridden for three four months but that was the only time i was so thankful to my following and social media because i actually considered termination I've spoken about this with my second daughter because I was so sick I was sick 40 times a day my hair was coming out I was really unwell they were like if you don't start eating we're going to feed you for a tube and I thought this is so extreme like I can't do this but my following there were so many women out there who'd been through it and they kept me going I messaged like 10 20 women certain ones every day and they kept me motivated so I'm thankful to social media for certain things like losing people in my life like it is a good platform but then it's also got its downside but the two can exist yeah and that's the thing isn't it with like with kids I think how amazing if you've got a child who maybe doesn't fit in at school but then they find someone online who also doesn't fit in at school yeah and they find that common ground how amazing is that yeah but then like we say there's so many downsides to it as well yeah difficult it's it's yeah it that's a really tricky one and especially when as we know like so many of our careers rely on social media imagine but just imagine for a second right we didn't have social media but we had everybody in our contact list that we'd known our entire lives yeah and you just open up your phone you're like your vagina looks baggy yeah yeah no i know that's weird from um i know i met in the gym five years ago because that's what we're talking about people think they can say what they want and they're hidden like i had one and this woman was a mum of six and she said about my lips and she openly commented and I thought I clicked on her profile and I thought you're a mum like I know you probably think it because I thought it myself at the time my lips had got too big I'm being honest but like to openly comment I just thought I can click on your profile and see who you are and you're a mum like why I never say this but I think that's why we need to teach our kids to not like to not do that because they're unhappy people The people who are doing that are unhappy people.

32:04I got bullied massively at school. And I look at the girls now and I think, well, I'm actually doing all right. And they said everything under the sun to me. Stick legs. I got bullied awfully.

32:14Georgia Dayton: Bullying led to your insecurities, right, probably to a degree. Yeah. But also it kind of gave me a bit of like, no, I'm going to do something with this. I've got stick legs, but I'm going to make money out of them. Next catalogue flew me around the world for my legs. I leg modelled for next catalogue. So I think actually, whatever, I don't care. but yeah bullying if my girls oh no bullying would really upset me I would never want that for my girls so then how do you have those conversations with your girls like your you know you said that Harper came back from school and she was talking about her legs what yeah what are you saying I just say always be kind and like never worry what other people think don't be the one that's worrying to be cool like the cool kids like you don't need to be the cool kid I wasn't the cool kid just because you're the cool kid at school doesn't mean to be cool in life don't peak too early no I used to have so many girls at my school would peak too early and I think actually now like be a vintage wine don't be the one on special yeah I just think be just have morals and be kind I'm very much I'm not about status I don't care about anything like that like I'm just not interested I don't care what you've got who you are just be a good person that's something my parents have installed in me my dad's in the football industry and I've met a lot of cool people from a very young age cool people but like very successful people but it never really bothered me I just think I care about who you are as a person it doesn't matter where you've come from or anything like that I'm not interested and would you say since becoming a mum you've started to care about who you are more as a person no less less so I'm more like content with who I am now and I see my job as a job now like when I do the drop-off I'm very much I'm going to work and I tell my kids about my job but not too much because I don't want to think it's about image yeah because that bothers me yeah because though you your mum was a model yeah yeah actually it's interesting how did that affect you that's actually interesting oh well how long have we got um yeah my mum was in the 60s was modeling in London and then over to Australia and like had she I mean she's so beautiful yeah my mum's issue was that um I love you Carol was that she was so obsessed with image okay and how she looked yeah and that my mum based a lot of things on you know oh gosh well you know oh Rosie oh yeah she's a bit fat isn't she or she'd make comments like that whereas my mum I always felt my mum we won't use this as a quote let's let's leave this I've already I felt like my mum liked people more if they were thinner.

34:46Georgia Dayton: Okay, that's quite sad. No, no, no, no, no. That's a bold statement. And I think there are so many people who would say the same about their parents because that was a time. Yeah, it was a time. See, I've actually always been, like if you look back at pictures of me at school, I was like tiny. I've always been naturally slim. So for the modelling world, I actually got told that I was too small. and actually I've not been honest about this but I'm going to be honest I've had my boobs done yeah this is the most raw I've been because actually people have asked me a lot about my boobs and I've always never said I've had them done but I've always been actually very slim I was like straight up and down and that's fine and it did well for modelling but I'm a commercial model I'm not high-end fashion girl I've modelled for different brands but they wanted the feminine look but I never had the boobs to fill things so I had my boobs done when do you have them done well I actually had them redone no one knows this so this is like I actually had them redone after Sienna after my wedding because obviously after kids they went to like nothing I had them done but do you know what tell me tell me because I really want to get my done yeah people are going to hate me no I feel like I just had them done so it made me feel more like a woman but I had them done before the kids yeah because of modelling and no one knew I had them done because they were done very small and well yeah but I had to go bigger because after the kids yeah I had to have them done do you love them?

36:04Yeah, I do. They're probably a bit bigger than I wanted, but obviously, you know, boobs, they're stretched after kids.

36:10Georgia Dayton: Yeah. But, yeah, I had them done. I've just been honest. But, yeah, people have asked me a lot, and I keep ignoring all these DMs. I'm like, why? Why do you? Why? Yeah. I think I just worry what people think. But I think it's just about being happy in yourself. I never judge other women. I'm not that woman. I never judge. I think if you want to do things, do them. But I think with boobs, it's different, isn't it? I don't know. It must be so difficult because I guess being, being, doing what you do for a living, you are, you're selling a product, making clothes look amazing, you know, it's art, you're creating, you know, stuff that makes you feel really, really great about yourself.

36:48Georgia Dayton: And yet you are up for so much scrutiny. You can be honest about this because people can see it, but you can't, you don't want to be honest about that. I don't understand how that would make you feel and, and why you think that that is happening to people in your industry. Why are you up for grabs like that? I've spoke to so many models about it. Models are the most insecure people you meet. I go on shoots and I just think, it's because you're constantly, I was on a shoot last week and I turned around to the side and they went, oh, don't worry about the belly, we'll pull you in. And I think, I've got two children.

37:20I am naturally, one thing I've never really had to worry about is my weight. I've always been naturally slim. I'm lucky in that sense. Obviously, I had my boobs done to give me a bit of shape. But he said, don't worry. and then he was talking to the other guy and I thought good job he's just saying like don't worry we'll edit that I'll sort that in post next week and I thought that's fine I'm a 35 year old girl this week like I can deal with that 21 years old you'd have messed my head if I was someone who was naturally bigger that would have really messed my head and also that's not treating someone like

37:50Georgia Dayton: a human that's just treating someone like an object and I guess in you know I don't understand setting you're a product yeah you're a product and that's um but i think there still needs to be a human element and i don't understand that i've heard everything oh i could go a long list of everything that's people have said about me i'm not tall enough because i've never been that tall but i'm like when i shoot shoot me from a certain angle i look taller because people when they meet me go you're not as tall as i thought so then i have this complex like am i not tall i always need to wear heels like it's it's funny but who are they selling the clothes to exactly who are they What do they think we're thinking as consumers and as women?

38:30Georgia Dayton: Looking at a model and going, she's got a bit of a tummies a bit, it doesn't look quite right. No. Yeah, I keep getting told, oh, what are you going to do? Isn't your time up now? And I'm like... Back on the shelf. Yeah, and I'm like, but actually, I'm probably the busiest I've been. I'm 35 and I've got two kids and people want to book me. We'll be right back after this short break.

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42:00Georgia Dayton: Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? This is what I never understand. People over 35 are the people with the disposable income and they are the people buying the products. So why at 35, 40 do we stop seeing people wearing the clothes when we're the ones buying them? No, I know. Do you know what? It's so odd. I've been told I'm mature. It's so odd. I get told I'm mature. And then that messes in my head because I'm like, hang on a minute. Am I like older? But I'm not old. No. I'm young. Do we not think this goes back to the bigger conversation around, it's quite an inflammatory comment, around the disposability of women at a certain age?

42:37Georgia Dayton: Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I completely agree with you. But I actually think the older I'm getting, I'm getting more confident and I'm the best I've been right now. I'm the best person I've been and the best version of myself right now. But if you had turned around to that photographer or that, you know, the editor on the shoot that day and said, please don't do that. I'm really comfortable with how my body looks. What would have happened? I thought I would never book you again. This is what's sad. And I had one recently with a photographer. He's a friend. I won't say names.

43:06But he said, I can say that to you, Amy, because you'll give it back to me. He goes, the young girls don't. It was like something a bit. Yeah. Like, you know what it's like. Inappropriate. Did you comment? I thought, yeah, too right. Like, but I've got confidence now. but when you're a young model I had oh my god I had a lot of things go on the photographer got me to take my top off and took all these naked pictures of me I sent them to my agency it was a commercial agency and they were like what the hell but they didn't really do anything about it

43:33Georgia Dayton: what as in he said that your agent has said he said oh if you don't start moving I'll get cock out he was like really inappropriate with me I've had a lot of this over the years in my like late teens coming down to London I've had a lot of weird things said like photographers lock me in rooms lock me in rooms like nothing ever happened but yeah a lot of strange things have happened like yeah that bothered me but Amy that is something that's yeah that is yeah and I had like no boobs like he was just taking pictures of me and he was being very inappropriate but that is the modeling world like it's no but it doesn't make it right I didn't make it right No, it doesn't make it right.

44:14No, no, no, of course not. But there's a lot that goes on that people don't see. They think, oh, perfect picture. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that can be strange. I've got a friend who's an actress and she has the same.

44:25Georgia Dayton: Yeah, what, the casting couch? Low jobs for jobs. I believe this. Like, I've had a job recently. I went to a casting and I won't say who, but the guy, unless he can sleep with you, the photographer, he won't book you. It's like, oh, okay. I actually shoot with mainly female photographers right yeah because of the yeah male photographers just saying things and I don't want to feel like I'm being judged or sexualized like but now like this photographer I'd be like sod off but back in the day I was like oh like I was young that's why they do it because they're preying on like young and it does happen like it does it really scares me stuff like this because in my mind I've talked myself into oh that doesn't happen anymore that doesn't go on anymore but it does oh no definitely definitely like yeah there's a lot I could say but can it can it change can it look any different I don't know if it will change I think it's just the industries it's like it happens in any industry I do believe like my husband works in finance and there's things that goes on in banking and different things but I think modeling is about image isn't it it's about looking a certain way and you get young photographers who are male I don't know they're like yeah yeah I feel quite shocked not because I think I've had my my head buried in the sand because I've had conversations with my mum about the certain things that she went through my mum and dad were quite naive like I grew up in the smallest county in the UK in Rutland it's very small town obviously my dad works in football my mum stayed at home with three kids and it is I think they were quite naive to it I had an agent when I was 16 and he spotted me at the clothes show and I don't know if he was like a legit agent because he used to ring me up on my house phone I've never shared this actually and he used to say weird things down the phone to me and I was 16 did you tell your parents no no and then actually it got to I was with him he used to get me the odd job I think he had access to the castings and things but I got to 17 and my boyfriend at the time took the phone off me he said what the hell is this guy saying to you and he said something really inappropriate and um he said that's the last time you'll speak to her and he actually helped because this guy was a creep like an absolute creep but I think my mom and dad probably didn't realize that I didn't tell them you don't though do you like I had a driving instructor who got banged up you know um I did driving lessons and he got banged up because I actually wasn't the girl who said it but two girls down he did assault a girl and he ended up getting banged up for it but I never told my parents they don't know that I paid him up front as well I think it was like I'd worked in this interior design shop it's 400 pounds I paid up front and I lost the money I just said oh don't worry about it I didn't want to go back to him he used to grab me and touch me I mean I used to say like all these different things Why do you think you didn't tell your parents Because this is like as a parent now Yeah no I know This is what really scares me And that's what I just want to know I think as like a teenage girl you feel very vulnerable anyway Yeah And you feel like you're going for all these changes I remember when I first got a boyfriend I didn't want to tell my mum and dad My brother and sister were younger than me I was the first one to get a boyfriend I didn't want to tell them But I think it's just being vulnerable isn't it But I'd want my girls to tell me But And me But Will they We talk about that the whole time about consent and the conversation.

47:55Georgia Dayton: Yeah. As anybody that they're going to talk to about it, please let it be me. Yeah. Please, for goodness sake, anything is held. We had a chat about sex the other night at home. And, you know, I was thinking back to sort of my childhood. And, you know, sometimes guys stayed over. My boyfriend's, I was 16. And, you know, we used to creep down the corridor and do whatever we'd done and creep back. But there were very set rules around where we slept in the house. Oh, really? Would we want our girls and our boy to have their boyfriend or girlfriend upstairs in the same room at that age? Like, all these weird stuff came up, but is it better it's happening under our roof?

48:26Georgia Dayton: Or are they doing it on the graveyard? Yeah, my mum does. Well, I think it's better to have them in your house. Oh, God, my dad was quite naive, I think. Yeah. You think you were doing darts? Yeah, I don't think he had any idea. Yeah. Or maybe just didn't want to know. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, my dad's quite like, he doesn't say much. Right. But he was just very naive and like, yeah, they can stay over. Probably didn't have a clue what was going on. but yeah I just think as a teenage girl you are vulnerable but I do think sort of telling our daughters what is acceptable and what's not because I had a maths teacher he's in prison now and a maths teacher he's in prison now and he used to make us sit on his lap while he was taking while we were taking he was taking the register oh my god oh my god no but I didn't think I didn't think I don't know I actually didn't think anything wrong with it no I know you don't know Honestly, you're saying it out loud.

49:19You're like...

49:20Georgia Dayton: And I remember my friend Simon used to get really cross and he used to get in loads of trouble at school because he used to be like, it's disgusting, he's disgusting. But all of us just used to want an easy life. No, I know. I think it's saying something, isn't it? It really is. It's sad. I wish I'd said something about the driving instructor because he was a creep. But I didn't. Like, he used to say... I don't know what I'm allowed to say on it. No, just say it, yeah. He used to, like... You know, the gear seat, you'd be like, I'll pretend it's my knob you're touching. And then he'd like grab me for like the bell.

49:54And I remember I used to try and do like parallel park and he'd like touch me. And I got to the point where I was like, I don't want to go. I feel really uncomfortable.

50:03Georgia Dayton: Of course you do. And I went to someone else and he was fine. But yeah, I've had different things that have happened. Nothing really bad, thankfully. But that is bad. Yeah, it is bad. That is bad. and hearing you sit here today you don't play the victim you're very you know you've got to a really great place in your life I've never been going back to the things that have happened to you they clearly have had an impact yeah have shaped and shaped those formative years yeah I'm definitely like the best version of me but I'm I'm not someone who plays the victim I'm very much get up and get on with it do you know I mean I'm not someone who'll sit there and go poor me like things happen in life and I've had things happen but you have to use it in a certain way I think and I think everyone deals with things differently but I like to try and be positive and just get up and get out do you think it's shaped um who you are as a mother in terms of would you be more hypervigilant now with your girl oh god yeah we were talking about this oh my god I'm crazy yeah even like my husband he's more like laid back and I'm like this can happen this can happen and he's like just stop micromanaging me and I'm like yes but like there's so much that can go wrong just like look after them they're so precious yeah no I get it over the top yeah and I think there's nothing more precious than your children yeah it's difficult I feel like it's a real fine line like your girls are young yeah and when you start seeing like kids growing up you know you need to give them that independence but when like things have happened or you've heard of things it's so difficult well even my husband so like we've got to the point and half as five she went for her first play date without us and I am a bit paranoid about that but actually I'm probably more laid back than my husband he doesn't want to do sleepovers he's like nope the girls are never going for sleepovers whereas I'm probably more laid back in that sense which is strange but he's more like over the top like that but I think you have to have balance don't you have to work together and have the same attitude to things.

52:02But I'm probably, like, with roads and different things, like, watch them there. But mine are four and five, or three and five. So you have to just watch them and tell them things.

52:12Georgia Dayton: Also, at five, they're still quite little, you know. Well, Harper, no. But some people I know, they don't let their kids do sleepovers full stop, and I really respect that. No, I do. Yeah, I do. I get it. But we were in the car on the way to Friends the weekend, and Harper said, oh, Mummy, how did you and Daddy make me? And I thought, she's five. I didn't ask my mum and dad that till I was like nine or ten. So I was like, how am I going to approach this? My husband was going to say, and I was like, no, no, no. Let's see, there's a different version. I was like, the tadpoles meet the egg, and then it just happens.

52:40Whereas he was going to go, and I was like, no, no, let's not go there.

52:44Georgia Dayton: It's interesting that there are, I find it fascinating though, and I love their questions around it. We always try and tackle it, don't we, George, in a really informative way. As if it's educational, obviously it's age appropriate, and some people listening will be like, five is two, whatever. everyone's got their own feeling on it but I never shy away like they've caught us shagging so many times and they're like what are you doing to mommy she's got a bad back but but you'll get a psychologist on here who'll say it's really healthy to see two parents yeah interacting like that physical because yeah I think it is and like to hug and kiss like we're very open doing that but I think it's good for your kids to see that I think like seeing love in the house is good yeah of course definitely yeah I'm at the point where they're kind of starting to know what's going on and learn about things like half are asking me these questions I'm like oh I've been so used to her not being aware of these things and then she's like what do you think about that mummy and you're going on your photo shoot mummy and I'm like oh but I try and turn it now I don't want her to think that I'm like mummy's going to work so I can pay for you to go and do nice things like I try and change it I don't want her to think oh you're going to work to like look a certain way I'm going to work to do like today I was like I'm going to work and that's all she needs to know because I'm not I'm not trying to hide it from her but I don't want her thinking oh my mummy does modeling and I need to look like that yeah like and I've had a good career from it so I'm not slating the industry like I've I've been able to buy my house and do lots of lovely things but it's not been easy yeah like I was never the girl that was like you're a pretty girl get your career and get all the big campaigns that was never me I've worked and grafted for it I put myself in front of the right people and I did Jade Holland Cooper I don't know if you're holland cooper i did her first campaign and i've worked with her since like but i've grafted for it i've got in front of the right people i'm quite entrepreneurial i'd say it's not just about being pretty that's what annoys me people are like oh you're pretty it's like no it's business yeah modeling is still business like you can't just do it and people don't just pick you off the street and like well unless you're yeah yeah she's she's got probably i mean her career is like is endured and injured yeah exactly I wanted to ask you just one final question about um the person behind you know the the the makeup and how glamorous you look and yeah and how you feel when you're with your girls when you don't have any makeup on and how they feel when they're with you and oh no I'm comfortable at home but I'm very much I always have to have something on my face which is so sad no not in front of them no no no no but at home I'm very much like fine but if I went out I'd always have to have like because I went to a platos class recently and the girl follows me the instructor and she went you've got freckles because I didn't have my makeup on I thought oh why is she looking at me like that because I look different to my pictures I always feel like I'm being compared to my images but then I put I put myself out there I've not that's my job so and also maybe maybe you're comparing yourself to your images but actually all versions of yourself are perfect yeah oh god like postpartum I found it really hard because I was used to getting spotted in self-deeds come fashion my fashion diaries I love fashion and clothes and I was getting spotted in soft place and all of a sudden I felt like oh not that it's a bad thing but I was like people are seeing me at my rawest and my lowest I remember sitting there when Sienna was weeks old Harper was 18 months and I thought I've gone from like traveling the world I did find it hard like and people will judge me for that but I did I've gone from this industry where it's all about me and you're on these shoots and people are like Amy Amy Amy to being a mum and it's no longer about you and I actually struggled with that and like I'm being honest like I will get hate for that like and I have had hate for that and I wanted to be a mum so badly but the actual experience of being a mum is is is eye-opening like I'd never held a baby like when I had Harper I was in hospital.

56:36I'd never been around babies. Not many of my friends have kids either. Some do now, but not all of my friends have kids. A lot of them single London partying. And I found it quite tricky actually, because I didn't really have a mum circle. I had no family near. I felt very isolated in the beginning with Harper and two under two. I just found it very...

56:55Georgia Dayton: Do you think you were grieving your old life? Yeah, of course. Yeah, massively. And I'm honest about that. Yeah, I was. But now I'm more content because I'm happy with my life now. and I'm happy with my kids and but in the beginning I did struggle with it because I had I was struggling with identity someone said it right I went to an event they're like you're struggling with your identity because you don't know who you are anymore and I didn't yeah and it's sad because it actually makes me emotional because I think I did struggle with that I didn't know who I was yeah sorry no no I lost me yeah yeah yeah yeah and it but sorry I don't actually get very emotional I'm not really an emotional person but I think being a mum just changed me yeah but are you happier now oh my god like the happiest I've ever been like career highs like today they're like do you want to come do this campaign in Marrakesh before I'd have been like yes I want to go now I'm like I'd love you with my children yeah and it's also okay to feel really sad about that period postpartum no but I didn't talk about it I didn't talk about it but I think so many women feel like you do you know they were a career woman and then thank you they think there's something wrong with them because they now don't want to do those things there's nothing wrong with it because I was very business very like money I want to make money I want to get here and there but actually um I've changed and I think he struggles with that bit because I'm very much like I want to be the best mom I can be but when I work loads I'm not the best mom if I'm shooting five days a week I don't have the energy for the children whereas now my kids come first and my work fits in like if there's a job that comes along I'll do it but it's got to be worth it did you have postnatal depression um I wouldn't say I had postnatal depression no but I'd suffered the hg pregnancies and obviously c-sections but I didn't have anyone around me my husband said I was lonely were you lonely yeah I didn't have anyone like apart from my neighbor Sophie she watches your show um hi sophie i didn't actually have any mum friends and i found that really tricky and i'm not a jealous person at all of my friends but all my friends living in london were like going out and doing this and i was like for a minute i chose to have kids that's my thing but i was like oh i can't go do that anymore and i'm at home wiping bum 20 times a day and getting thrown up on and i found it and actually my instagram my engagement went down at one point when I had two under two because all I was sharing was I'm finding this really hard and I think people got sick of it they were like oh god all she does is moan but I was just trying to like process yeah I was finding it hard find other people who yeah similar I've got a mum network now and I'm very select with who I let in my life like like the kids are at school and I'm not about status I do not care about what you've got or who you're hanging out with I care about the person and I'm very select with who I let in my life.

59:45And I'd probably say I've got three mum friends. You've got two new ones now. Yeah. Yeah, we can, actually. But like it is hard. It's just a different world being a mum and you can't explain it. Like I bought all designer clothes for the kids and my friend was like, stupid idiot. He was like, putting designer clothes on a baby? I had no idea, like no idea. Ended up going to Sainsbury's and buying all these baby grows and they didn't wear any of the clothes. I sold them all. but I was very naive to being a mum very naive I thought I'll be able to take you didn't fit in with the mum crowd um yeah a little bit a little bit I think it's because of my job though not because of me but when you say you do I've been here and I've flown around the world and I've had a cool life and all of a sudden no one cares it's like oh you're just a mum you're just a mum

1:00:33Georgia Dayton: it's about and it's not just a mum but no no it's about finding your tribe again yeah definitely and that does take it's taken me five years genuinely like come on now it's taken me five years to find who I am again and I'm happier but it's taken that long gosh we could keep talking are you going to say we can't I know I'm just happy that we've got I feel like for you you know and for us listening as well it's been a joy to chat to you because you've obviously had a huge life and you're just in act two who knows what the best part it's the best part the best part thank you thank you thank you so much amy level everyone thank you wow i mean i still when we recorded that it stayed with me for a really long time actually and i really did think about our girls a lot in that me too you know for me having those conversations and making sure that they know that if anything happens that they feel uncomfortable with they come straight to us and tell and tell us yeah absolutely and you know I know we have conversations around consent and they have conversations around consent in school and all of that sort of thing but I really do think we've got a responsibility at home to be like drilling that into our kids because I mean I mean I said like you know I didn't think there was anything wrong with having to sit on the maths teacher's chair like I just I don't know it's so weird but how do I don't know maybe you don't know maybe you don't have that kind of intel well we didn't have those conversations did we though that's the thing nobody was talking about it in today's completely different world and actually i think part of us feels oh we don't want to scare them you know but i'd rather them have that in their mind to know this is right and this feels wrong i would rather i would rather repeat it every single day at least then i can you know try and protect them no totally gosh what an episode um thank you so much to amy for coming on as always we'd love you to rate review subscribe and please give our podcast to follow.

1:02:31Georgia Dayton: Yeah. And if you've got any feedback on this episode or guests you'd like to hear from, drop us a DM on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mamas and we'll be back on Friday.

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