Chemmy Alcott on Being an Unapologetically Pushy Parent

0:28Zoe and Georgia will be here in just a moment with Made by Mummers. know you're born on your podcast app and hit follow so new episodes land straight in your feed. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, We're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands.

1:04And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummies. But for now, George, should we get into it? Happy birthday to you. I want the full rendition. The whole song. I would love... I'll do it off. Can you do like a Marilyn Monroe one? Like a Mr. and President. Happy birthday to you. My camera's off because I feel 43 today after a weekend of celebration. Oh, don't. I'm looking at myself on the camera and I think I look 53. Oh, don't worry. I've had such a good weekend. My throat is so sore from all the laughing and having good times.

1:49Oh, that's so nice. What did you do? What did you get up to? Well, Friday we went, Doz has surprised me with a day at Farmhouse. We went to a farmhouse. We're only supposed to be going for the day. And then just before we left, Doz went, Morag, Scary Mary, his mum, was like, I can stay the night. So if you guys can get somewhere to stay, why don't you just stay up there? So I was like, oh, this is brilliant. So we chucked an overnight sack in. And then on the way up there, we managed to book a room. Got upgraded when we got there because my lovely mate works there. So she sorted us out. We had a really nice cabin.

2:20and we just like went to the gym, sparred, did all that steam sauna which was gorgeous, had a lovely meal and then had some drinks and went to bed. Like it was just gorgeous. That is so nice and so needed, things like that really. Oh God. Aside from it being your birthday, that sort of thing is like necessary. I just remembered why I really love him. Yeah. Those moments where you're doing all the sort of like dog's work. Like doing the lists and the school runs and like picking up shit from the garden you're like oh my god this person's so irritating and then you go away and spend 24 hours with them and you realize why you love them still yeah really important i know i agree it is really important and even like if you can't get 24 hours away or what you can't get a night away even like having a night that's set up different in a different way is so like it is it sounds so cliche as well doesn't it but it is it's so important.

3:16Yeah. It was really great. And then Sunday we had a big pub lunch in the Waverley. If you live in the local area, you've got, I live in Surrey, you've got to go to the Waverley in Weybridge. The food is like 10 out of 10. And he surprised me by getting my two best mates, Nick and Tim, they came out as well. But it was like a very boozy Sunday. You know, when you wake up on the Monday and you think, oh my God, is my liver okay? Yeah. Yeah. I actually feel a little bit like that today as well. Did you drink yesterday? I did. I haven't had a drink for absolutely ages, but it's my, like one, one, one, one, one, One of my cousins' birthdays and my family, that's just how it goes.

3:49Like, just what happens if we get together. So, no, it was really nice. But, yeah, I'm drinking my electrolytes right now. Oh, my God, I've already had, yeah, I'm the same. I'm, like, doing all the good stuff. Like, vitamin C. Yeah. Gargling on salt water. Yeah, been to the gym this morning. Yeah, well done. Yeah, I'll go and stand in the sunlight. I'll do all the things that James does every day. You've got some big news. I have. Oh, my God. And I said to you before we started recording that I have got like a little bit of regret. So I put a poll up. George has got some massive news. I put a poll up last week.

4:24I was thinking, oh, should we get a dog? I'm really not sure. But basically, the kids have been begging me for a dog for ages. And I said to them, when Rufus passes away, then we will get our own dog. But it's not fair for, you know, nanny and granddad when we go on holiday to have both dogs to look after. That's not fair. So we have to just have one dog in the family. So they were like, yeah, okay. And do you remember Gigi would wake up every morning and be like, is Rufus dead yet? Is Rufus dead? And it was quite harsh, right? So then when he died, Axel was beside himself and then was like, no, I don't want a dog.

5:02I never want to feel that way ever again. I do not want a dog. He's so sensitive. I love him. he is so we sort of left it and then the last couple of weeks it has been coming back up again and back up again and there was a rescue potential rescue dog that um a lady wasn't very well she had cancer and wasn't going to be able to look after her puppy anymore that she'd only just got so we were like maybe this is the sign you know maybe we should do it so we were like yep we'll do it And then she just ghosted us. So then I'm like, oh, God. So anyway, I put a poll up on Instagram. Oh, no, but Georgia, she's still alive.

5:39Well, I don't know. I haven't heard from her. Like, I don't know. I don't know what's happened. And I keep messaging. And then obviously now I just feel like I can't keep messaging. So I just obviously leave her just to check that she's okay. But she's not replied. So I can't really do anything. I don't know where she lives. I don't know. But the seed had already been planted. Yeah, exactly. fucked at that point i was yeah exactly so then i put a poll up on instagram like what do you guys think like give me your honest like opinions here because before i hadn't thought about it because i thought we were just doing a good thing by rescuing a dog there's not as much thought goes into that i guess but then when it now is that we would just be actively looking i thought oh i'll see what everyone thinks it was like 51 49 i was like yeah and i'm grateful i'm grateful to our followers for that actually because they keep it real they're not dressing it up they're not telling you it's going to be easy they're saying it's going to be really really hard there was no decision it was so close I was like oh god anyway we're screwed we went to see the dogs on Friday obviously like fell in love with them then Saturday we went actually to see another dog because I wanted to like make sure I was you know just doing the right thing to with all the questions you have to ask and stuff but we were already sold on the dogs we'd seen on friday and getting a little boy we're getting a little boy we haven't got a name it's we'll be ready to come to us in like two weeks time two maybe two and a half depends on when like the injections and all that stuff um oh god um but yeah it's amazing it's so exciting you're gonna absolutely love it yeah well you know you've had a dog before so you understand how to look after one it's gonna be fun the only i think i said this to you earlier on the only really irritating thing and actually um it's something that you just cannot comprehend until you have you know an animal in your house is the amount of crap that they bring in no i know it's just it's just it get used to hoovering and mopping every single day and if you can get your head around that the dog brings you so much joy we can't imagine our family without why haven't you put your robot hoover on yet oh my god that is the worst thing you've ever told me to buy and it costs me 300 quid and it's still sitting in the best thing it's the best thing i just thought you took it out the box and press play but you have to set it up on an app and i'm i just it's gone it's done it's done for you done isn't it because that will hoover them up for you every day on a timer if you want to we will try and eat it no no maybe not now actually maybe when he's older oh my god she i'm saying here i'm saying saying all sorts now um no it's very exciting it was very exciting george and we can't wait to see lots of puppy updates oh good luck anyway yeah thank you um so we need to get into today's conversation from puppies to skiers yeah because a seamless link there from me we have got um we have got i mean is it safe to say that she is um Great Britain's best skier.

8:42Fima skier. I think so. Fima skier. I would say that is correct. 100%. Yes. Yeah. And I was actually on my own because, again, this is one that you, it was one day when we recorded and basically Zoe couldn't make it, which was a shame. I was doing radio. Obviously, yeah. And so I took a couple of interviews, but it's just these two, and then we're back to normal after this. But you know her anyway, don't you? It was, yeah. I mean, I was, you know, we were talking about skiing a bit, but the whole conversation was very much around how she parents and how she looks at danger and, you know, how pushy should you be?

9:21Because this is the thing that we always sort of talk about, don't we? Like, you don't become an Olympic skier. You don't become the best, you know, an amazing athlete without some, like, hard graft. Yeah. And you have to be wired in a different way. And she definitely is. And it was great to get her sort of spin on it. And how she, you know, her parents, you know, how they were pretty pushy. And how she reacted to that in a really positive way. Which, yeah, I found it fascinating. I love the way she parents her kids. She spends the winters in the mountains. They're like a proper extreme family.

10:02She presents, you know, she presents on a ski show, but she just her kids just get stuck in. She's and you mentioned the sort of danger thing like her job is incredibly dangerous. But what it does is, is, you know, we might assess risk in a certain way. And Chemi, oh, I've just told you who we're talking to today. So I might as well just shut up. But today's guest, you know, she will look at it in a totally different way, which is really interesting. because I think sometimes we are constrained by our own fears and our own worries. Whereas you've got somebody who's really lived on the edge and she's put her body through absolute extreme.

10:40Yeah. Extremeness. So, yeah, fascinating. I can't wait to hear it. I'm really, really excited. Georgia, well, we know who we're talking to, but who is it? We're chatting to Chemi Orcott. Welcome to the podcast, Chemi. Thank you. As always, whenever we get into the studio, we start talking about loads of stuff that's happened. But you're saying it. And I had a double espresso and two other coffees today. So I've come in like guns blazing. Let's go. Right. Okay. Wow. No, so just before we get into it, would you just tell the listeners a little bit about yourself, your setup at home, your background, all that kind of thing?

11:13So the most important thing for this podcast is that I'm a mother. I've got two kids, eight and six. Quite weird coming on a motherhood podcast now, a parenting one, because I feel like I should be so far into the parenting journey that I should have everything kind of sorted. So coming on here and actually going back and looking at all the things I've learned and still learning. Because I think when you think about being a parent, you think about that early stages. Yeah, of course. So I was like, oh my God, I'm going on a parenting podcast. What am I going to speak about? But my past before that, my first life is I was a downhill ski racer.

11:46So I used to chuck myself down a mountain 90 miles an hour on wooden planks. so that kind of shows I've got a few screws loose which haven't gone away since I've become a mother. You kind of think that part of that existence and being responsible for two young lives means that you'll lose the crazy part of you but unfortunately mine is still very deep rooted in my day-to-day essence. Married to another ski racer, now I work on my second dream. So my dream was to win the Olympic gold and to present Ski Sunday and I didn't win the Olympic gold, went to four olympics tried my hardest um broke a lot of bones in the process but i am presenting ski sunday so kind of re-evolving myself um very busy winters very hard to not say yes to everything going which this winter especially because we got the olympics yeah um so yeah that's the kind of the setup that's the setup and you've got two boys and how old are they they are eight and six eight and six so both at school they are both at school annoyingly at different schools now because my youngest goes to an infant school, which at the time I thought was really cute because there were no big kids there.

12:50But now I have to do two different drop-offs. I got very wet this morning cycling. I still, I mean, they're eight and six, but I have a bucket bike. You know, those like Amsterdam bucket bikes, which most kids, you know, they're two or three years old. Mine are still. So I can just see above my eight-year-old's head. Like he's pretty big to be on it. But it's just a really easy way because the road I live on is full of traffic. So you've got, so you have to cycle. And they're so big that I can't put the rain cover on anymore because their head sticks at the top. So they have to like, we go with blankets and rain covers.

13:22And next week I decorate it. I put reindeers down the side and tinsel all around it. Oh my gosh. But it's quite a community where I live. Like this morning, you know how people have really fancy cars and they wave at other people with the same brand of fancy car? Yeah. It's like that when you have bucket bikes. But the bucket bike. Yeah, you're like, hello, other parent in the rain going to school. Hello, everyone. I feel your pain. I know what you're going through. Now, you just touched on winter being a really difficult time, or busy time, not difficult. And quite often, you know, we talk on the podcast about the challenges of, like, being working parents and, you know, how difficult it can be.

13:57But your setup is quite different because you just said when you came in that this will be your last weekend at home for quite a few months. Talk to us about that. So, I mean, I've never known anything differently. My sons have never known anything differently. before they were at school, I somehow managed, I don't know actually how it existed, but I took them away with me. So both my sons are born in January 13th and 16th because we only ever have sex at April. You know, Easter sex is all we do because you get through the winter and then you can relax. And then terrible time for me to have children.

14:30Actually, I've only been around for one of their birthdays ever. And they're eight and six because that is one of my biggest weekends of the year is Kitspiel. 100 ,000 fans in the crowd and I'm there working every year. And that's their birthday so I've never really seen them but they they get it now but at the beginning I took them away so I remember Lockie was 13 days old and um we got a passport done whilst I was still in hospital recovering so my husband we had to choose a name like that didn't really have a clue I spelt it wrong when I sent it to hello magazine so now my son's name is spelt wrong because I was you know still on whatever post-labor drugs um but he's got that name now yeah and uh Because I needed to get the passport.

15:12Totally jaundiced photo in his passport photo. And 13 days later, we go to the airport to get on an easy jet flight. And they wouldn't let me on the flight. They said, sorry, you know, your child has to be 14 days. And I was so hormonal that I was like, is the day Lockie was born zero or one? Like, that surely is day one. And they were like, no, no, listen, he was born on the 13th. It's the 26th of January today. He can't fly. That's not two weeks. I'm like two weeks is 14 days and the day he came out of me is day one so I was having this massive debate and I wasn't winning because obviously you know calendar but I thought I should win and then the lady behind me tapped me on the shoulder and said British Airways take kids at 48 hours and I was like up you easy jet turned around booked a British Airways flight and got on the plane and so when he was two weeks old we were in the mountains already and I was back at work skiing which is absolutely sorry hang on two weeks after after giving birth to your first yeah you were back skiing yeah and and the issue with this is I said that I would do this job I was living my dream on ski sunday and I guess part of me didn't want to give it away because I thought so hard and especially as a woman in this role I didn't want to say I need an excuse being a mum now obviously I had this my first time being a mum I didn't know how hard it was going to be um and yeah so we went out there actually Italy was a really good place because I remember filling up the car with petrol on the way to the mountains and the the guys came out of the shop and saw a baby in the back they said oh can we hold your baby whilst you fill the car up I'm like yes so every restaurant we went to they just took they love babies in Italy unfortunately the week later we went to France and they don't care at all no one would take the baby away so had to actually you know dig deep but um I mean it is crazy what I did and I opened myself up to a huge amount of judgment because I'm on television so I can't even say oh I pre-filmed or anything like that is that week life and people like what are you doing people saying because I think for me I'm like wow and I'm more just thinking oh my god were you okay was your body okay not judging you at all I mean I remember being up the mountain that first day and and having my script and you get your script on this on site in the mountain because everything changes so we've got to talk about what's happening right then and going oh my gosh I can't really even remember my name right now I've been up all night because I also decided that I must breastfeed I went down that rabbit hole of you know the NHS have told me I should breastfeed everyone should breastfeed it's best for him I mustn't cut corners so I I threw myself into all the stereotypes of trying to be a good mum and putting myself second um but somehow somehow I survived I mean I put on a lot of weight because I wasn't allowed to have enough coffee or more coffee than I normally have so I just had sugar and so I was just reaching for sugar to stay awake the whole time filming um but we but we got through and then madly two years later I did it again with my second who was born on the 16th of um January and I went to world champs I mean this is probably the most empowered I've ever felt as a mum was I was at world champs after Cooper was born we had a three-year-old and a one-year-old there it was minus 20 it was an absolute mayhem and I was there and I was interviewing the the man who just won the downhill okay he's there bravado full of ego and I'm last in line and because I'm a woman genuinely they they make me do the interview last and I'm there waiting going oh my gosh I really need to do this job to get back to feed my son yeah and I do the interview and I'm like on it and at the end the producer says to me that is that was the best interview you ever done you really read him well you got everything out and I was like do you know what's even better I was making milk at the same time so I had the LV pump underneath my thermals and I was still on film and the guy was still there who I just interviewed the world champion I unzipped my jacket and there was milk everywhere and there was I pulled out my LV pumps and I'd made like liters of milk so I was like uh-huh now that is multitasking that is multitasking well so I mean you say you that was like the most impact you know yeah time you felt the most empowered which is incredible but as a whole when you look back on that time what do you think well sometimes when I think things are tough now I try and think back to what we achieved as a family back then and what my husband sacrificed because he you know he let me go back to work he was full-time with the kids um I think it was quite I don't really know how I survived that yeah I don't think we survived I do think that period we thrived because we were out there traveling around the mountain you know I was living my dream job and living my dream of being a mother and not many people get the opportunity to do that no and I was fully supported by the team around me and it was yeah it was magic I'm gonna say magical now yeah because you can look at my insight yeah yeah I was gonna say that because I think it's so easy isn't it when you look back on things like I look back on my first maternity leave I actually took it was over a year off which I would never I just wouldn't see myself ever doing that now.

20:09Yeah, it seems indulgent, but that's what you want. Yeah, and I look back on it and like, oh my gosh, it was so amazing. I just used to stroll around the park and have coffee. But in reality, I was bored. We'll be right back after this short break.

20:24Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? So I had this amazing opportunity to keep myself pre-motherhood going. And you see a lot of mothers struggle, you know, with mental health because they were something amazing before and they think they've lost that because they think they're just a mum now. And I was able to keep that thread of my new life after retirement from racing going and still be living my second dream. And yeah, it is amazing that I was able to do that, but only because of the people around me. Yeah, and I think as well, like to anyone listening, like who thinks that because you're, you know, maybe you're pregnant right now or whatever, you have to go down a really traditional route.

21:04No, make your own pathway. You don't. Yeah, I've got a friend who's just moved to Australia recently and she's pregnant and her boyfriend has got a job that means he has to travel all the time. So he works for somebody and at the drop of the hat, they've got to go to Italy or go wherever. And she was like, oh, I just don't know what I'm going to do when the baby comes. And I was like, no, no, no, no. When you've got a newborn, you can go too. First of all, you don't pay for a seat for a two. I mean, that is massive. yeah secondly when they're born I always say to people that is actually a really good time to to to journey to experience stuff because they they sleep for 19 hours a day and they love the car seat then yeah you know you get up to six months and they start hating the car seat but at the beginning they don't know anything differently so they sleep all the time and people do tend to love babies so you'll get help from from other people who you don't even know and always say yes to that help we always think oh no you know my kid's crying on the airplane and someone's offered to help, I shouldn't say yes.

22:01Say yes. Definitely. And also people don't offer unless they want to. That is the thing. And also like if I think the more you build things up in your mind, like travel and all of that, the more you put it off, the bigger challenge it becomes. Whereas it's like, you know, I didn't even know what the rules were. 48 hours you can travel. I mean, I definitely did things wrong. I remember with Lockie, I was in Italy and my childcare had fallen through and I had to coach. so I had the papoose and I had him in the papoose underneath my jacket and the Italian police found out and they were chasing me around the mountain and I was trying to call everyone I knew on the mountain to have someone take him so I could keep working because I was committed to coaching these young guys in a really important race and that was a moment where I was thinking this is absolutely mad like I am luckily you know I trust myself skiing fast because these policemen are chasing me on the mountain because they know that I'm trying to ski with a with a newborn um but I did find someone and he had the best day ever and we had a successful race day but but that's you know you make mistakes you learn um and I was like right okay that was that was too much risk yeah yeah yeah so what about now so we're talking about you know when your sons were really little and you could take them yeah with you and kind of muddle through and make it work what about now like when you know you say you're away for their birthdays away for the weekend do they ask you about it do they you know have do you get pushback from parents how is that um so the best thing now is that they get it they understand that they understand that the mountains are part of our life part of our work life part of our passions it's what makes us happy my most successful attribute of being a parent is that thankfully my sons love to ski um now if they hadn't like skiing I don't know you know there's adoption issue of course I wouldn't have put them away but but that that for me is a game you know game maker because they love coming away when we get to go away um they get what I do so I hear them tell people oh you know mommy went to the Olympics I want to go to the Olympics mommy's going to be presenting and doing her job so so they understand it now there was a few years where it was really challenging because they understood about time because when children are really young and you say goodbye it doesn't matter if you're saying goodbye for five minutes or for me a month yeah you know that that is fine okay right I'll see you later but then there was this period you know between four and six years old where they didn't really understand time they understood time sorry and so they were really challenged by me going away because like what 14 nights you're not going to be here you know they would work it out in their head whereas now they understand it and they understand that it's part of our lives and and they are proud of what I do and I think that for me is is absolutely incredible and and the challenging part is that they are at school they're a state school and the state schools need to have children at school to get the funding from the government and I'm away and my husband also is a ski race coach and he's away so we have to apply for authorised absence a lot we have to show our earnings why our earnings are dictated by being in the mountains it's really quite you know detailed I remember the first time I applied for it they wrote back and said why do you need to be at Kitsbjell weekend can you change it now that's the race I told you about I said well there's a hundred thousand people who watch that race it's been going forever there is no way I can change my schedule I am there to deliver and broadcast a race on ski Sunday that has been happening forever so there were a lot of questions at the beginning and now they understand it they also understand that I am academically driven my parents said to me if you get four A's at a level you can be a ski bum for the rest of your life it almost turned out differently because I got three a's and a b but then I had the b remarked so I was like right great and and I am the same for my children like if you want a life in sport that's great but you've got to have education to fall back on um easier would be for us to homeschool we have a live-in nanny it's really important I talk about that for people listening thinking my life's unattainable it is completely unattainable if it wasn't for our live-in nanny she's unbelievable she's also a primary school teacher so she does schooling with our children when we're away so that's how we get the time off and and it's it's difficult because a lot of my friends you know they they maybe can't afford to go away in school holidays and they want to go away during school term and they get their absence refused and I'm out there and it looks like the boys are having the best time skiing and then doing school but I was like well what do I do I didn't have children or my husband to not be we haven't got pastoral care at home for any family to come and live and then go to school so this is the only thing we can do now it's going to get tougher every year it gets tougher because schooling gets much more important I don't know what the future holds I don't know what we're going to do I really believe in the value of going to school yeah because homeschooling would be easy for us but then they would just be together and they lose all that social they lose the sport they lose there's so much from school that I think is important and it was important for me growing up and my mum's an academic and I'm definitely wanting that from them as well because I don't think children should be defined by one thing and the culture of talented ski racers in the UK now is from 10 years old you go and live in the mountains full-time that defines you so what happens at 16 when you don't make it yeah you've got nothing yeah and I managed it a very different way when I was younger I mean at 10 years old I went to New Zealand on my own which shows that I'm definitely parenting the same way as my parents.

27:25And I mean, that was absolutely crazy. It was before internet. I didn't have a phone. So I'd have a one telephone card every Tuesday night, 8 p.m. I'd walk down to the phone box, call home once a week at 10. My God, my son's nine. I know. I think it shows how obsessively driven I was that I made that decision. I found the program. I persuaded my parents. It was for teenagers. And I remember calling this guy in Scotland. and it was one of those at my local ski club they had the advert where you ripped the telephone number off the bottom yeah yeah and I went home and I called him and no parents were home and I said listen this is a situation I want to come to New Zealand and I chewed the guys off the ear of this guy for hours and then at the end I said great I think you should come and say there's one issue is that I'm not a teenager and I'd just spoken to him for hours and he said okay well how old are you I said I'm 10 and he's like oh my god I've just wasted all this time and I was like no listen I can make this happen and so that evening I said to my parents and my brothers I really want to go to New Zealand this summer to ski and my mum said okay well big family decision we've got to think about all of the cost of all of us going sacrificing everything and I said no no no one needs to come I can go alone and that is crazy at 10 years old it is when you think about it and I think of how we are now but I think the world is a maybe a scarier place now yeah I don't know I don't know I don't know or do we just know more yeah because that's what I always think you know like we you know scared of think I don't know being mugged or whatever but that did happen when we were teenagers people did get mugged and but we just I think we hear maybe about it more I don't know the news spreads quicker bad news spreads really quickly because of social media it was all rose tinted I was like right I'm going to New Zealand there's loads of sheep there more sheep than people I'm going to ski all day that's that's what I really thought and how was that as a 10 year old going it was the dream it was amazing I cried coming home you cried did you miss your family or did you just know I don't know what this is about me as a person but not at all no oh but that's good I think because I'm the youngest and I've got older brothers three older brothers I was always kind of fighting for for my rights to be defined and I was the only girl my mum my mum did a degree in women's liberation she always wanted a daughter um she had a couple of pregnancies that didn't um last till the end she had one of my brothers died of a cot death at nine months so by the time she had me they told her to stop having children and she's like no I'm having a daughter and then when she got pregnant she ate carrots for the whole pregnancy because back then there wasn't any you know gender testing and she was like this I've heard this is gonna make me have a girl um and then I come out and I'm a girl and I think it must have been hard for her because I was such a tomboy because I just wanted to keep up with my brothers and then I realized that I could be different by being really good at something and that really good at something was skiing and I had this opportunity because I learned to ski at 18 months old because my brothers were already racing so I had so much opportunity to be good at it and you know there wasn't gender specific racing when I was younger you race against the boys so it was a win-win for me because if I beat the boys I didn't know any differently but it hardened me up a lot so I was a massive tomboy and I don't know I think I don't know if that was hard for my mum because she'd finally got this little girl that she wanted and I was like I don't I mean I remember getting my first agent at 13 and they were like you can't cut your hair you have to have long blonde hair you have to look a certain way we're going to own your brand image because that's what we're going to sell and I was like no if I want to have green hair and cut it all off I will and they're like no no you don't understand but eventually I understood the value in that because if I got more money I could ski more so I was like okay you want me to look a certain way I'll do it yeah I'll do it and what were your parents like because I'm always so fascinated by you know like athletes and how they how they were raised so they both came from a sporty background my dad was a rugby player my mom was a swimmer okay um my mom quit swimming because she got injured after commonwealth games and I think that was a massive regret of her so she was very good at picking me up when things were going wrong and giving she said you can never quit on a bad day you can only quit sport on a good day um so anytime I was like oh this is tough she'd be like yeah but this is making you I think I think if I'm really honest and this is hard to say because my mum passed away in 2008 the last time I saw her was at an Olympic Games but I think that she was really pushy but that pushiness helped me be my best and my parents are so scared of being pushy that we actually sit back and we're a bit vanilla and we let our children quit and we let our children not be their best because they're like, okay, it's okay, you're having fun.

32:03But actually, if you want to create someone fiercely competitive who will deliver and have an incredible life through sport, at the early stages, there has to be some pushiness. I have pushed my kids into skiing. They have done ESF, so I didn't even teach them to ski. They went through the French ski school and they had to get a gold in French ski school before they could come to my ski race team. And now they love it because they're with our team and they've earned it. But there were days where they were like, I really don't want to go. And you're like, come on. Yeah, because we have this conversation a lot on the podcast.

32:35So my husband played football. Zoe's husband played rugby. So they are both very driven, like very competitive, like quite hard on the kids, we feel. But the more and more that I have, especially with my husband, I have a conversation with him about it. I see the benefit and I never used to I used to be like oh stop it like he doesn't want to do this just stop this he doesn't want to I mean there obviously is a fine line yeah like I put children in the start gate on a mountain in a race before and they were crying and they were crumbling through fear and I thought you don't have to do this yeah you know you are that there is facing your fears and then there is jumping in and having you know mental health issues because someone is making you do something incredibly scary out your comfort zone that you don't want to do yeah so there is a fine line um but I think a good cop bad cop is always great yeah yeah well that's what I was going to say because I think we've got this sort of balance now where he's definitely more pushy like with my daughter with my son like pushy like they've got their own things and he will be the one that like you say if they're having a bad day or bad time he's like no no you don't not go you have to go whereas I'm the one who will be like I understand this is the reason and why this is why daddy's saying you should go that's great that's ideal then you are the perfect team but i think it's taken a while to get to that and i think you know anyone listening who is in that sort of headspace where they don't know whether to push through with things i think that's the difficulty when you see a child is good at something listen me saying this every kid is individual my sons my my natural instinct from cooper who's six is no so lockie's natural instinct six is yes do you want to jump off that cliff yes do you want to do this jump do you want to do this whatever it is yes whereas Cooper at six is no and I remember Lockie transitioned from no to yes at about five years old so but Cooper says no and I and I push him to do it all and he loves it when he gets there but he puts up a barrier of no all the time so I know that that's his natural instinct so when I push through that he will enjoy it if he if I was to push him through that and he didn't enjoy it then that's him actually going okay I've got to understand Cooper is different and he doesn't want to do that yeah but um I mean even Lockie was telling his friends yesterday he's like oh my brother never wants to do anything and then he absolutely loves it and then he never wants to stop doing it when we're there it's really frustrating and I'm like maybe that's Cooper's way of being heard because Lockie is so easy and he's like yeah I'll do it he doesn't even he trusts whatever I say whatever I throw in front of him even if they're really bad ideas because I do you know the other day we were we we I've made a platform outside where we've got one of those gymnastics air mats now we don't actually do gymnastics on it we I raise it above so that they can jump off it onto a trampoline and I was doing it my husband was away and I was looking up I was like oh we could probably jump from our balcony onto this onto so I was like making this crazy free running course for an eight-year-old and I said lucky what about this and he's like what do you think daddy would say and I was like oh you're right there's too much risk anyway then my husband came home and he told him I got dobbed in my mommy said we could maybe jump off the balcony and Doug's like that's ridiculous that is so stupid so my risk is I'm not cotton wooling the boys we'll be right back after this short break

35:55welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas now where were we part of my learnings as an athlete and part of the reason why I didn't deliver my best is because I had a fear of failure and fear of letting other people down so I committed for eight years of my life when I had the potential to win a world cup ski race I chose to be 80 % of myself I chose to sandbag I kept 20 % in my back pocket to validate to me and to everyone else why I wasn't winning because I was so scared if I went 100 % if I did my best and I didn't win I'd have to admit to everyone that I wasn't good enough and so I was so scared of facing that that that I just I had this vicious cycle of choosing to underperform and it's easy to say now in hindsight but I put myself in a position once where I could go all out and I won the run and then I started getting hurt and breaking bones but actually it was a much more satisfying way of living going right I'm choosing every day now to be 100 % whether that is me winning a race crashing getting hurt taking too much risk so my big aim as a parent is to help my sons and my children and the kids I coach find their 100 % because so many of us live in our comfort zone we're all fine with being good yeah good enough but what about excelling and so with the boys when they learned to ski I used to bribe them to fall I would give them Haribo every time they fell because I wanted them to find that limit yeah the slight issue was I made these massively confident but lowly competent skiers so it was quite dangerous so then I was like right okay this doesn't work because you're trying to fall they're trying to yeah yeah um but you know that's all learnings and I just I just want them to be able to go everything in life and learn from failing yeah because I was gonna there's a real thing with fear of failure um and i think it's really difficult to teach that that's okay like my son for instance he's like really competitive very hard on himself so if he if there's a sport that he feels very comfortable in like football or whatever he doesn't get nervous really he's all in he knows he knows he can be the best he knows whereas it comes to running or swimming where he's good enough to be in the teams yeah which i keep reminding him but he might not be the best he can have full-blown panic attacks yeah and it sounds a lot but we actually found like a mindset coach lady yeah um recently he's only had one session because we were confused with like we say to him all the time like it doesn't matter if you don't win yeah but some i think some people in them have that thing have you as successful parents so you're both your husband's amazing at sport you're amazing at life and business have you shown him and talked to him about all the times that you've learned through failure because I think sometimes as parents we think that we should be inspiring only for our children so I want you to see all of my best sides but actually they need to see us falling apart and picking ourselves up that's true because they don't realize because because we're always so level-headed in front of our children they they see that that's how they should be so when they have these emotional highs and lows they're like well my parents don't have these whereas actually I think talking to about all of your failures and mistakes and learnings from it is so important I mean mine are really obvious because every time my son see my leg they're like oh yeah look there's mommy's broken leg there's this so I can talk about it a lot and and I think that that really helps with them understand that I have made so many mistakes but I'm now living a life that I am really proud of yeah so it is hard for your son I think that I think also it's really good yeah so so so not the panic attacks but tantrums I think that we don't want a whole you know society of vanilla kids who don't care about winning and losing this is the fire so when I coach kids and kids are like oh well I made a mistake I'm like wait you're allowed to be angry you're allowed I give them 10 seconds to have full-blown tantrums at the bottom of a race when they're I'm like right we might go into the woods and do it we might not do in front of everyone but yeah right for 10 seconds scream shout tell me how you feel boom then we're going to start being in the present talk about what we're going to learn from that and then apply that to the future because I think we want them to throw their toys out the pram yeah we don't want them not to care that's that's the most dangerous thing to say don't feel that way you should be fine right yeah don't worry about it no no they should worry about it yeah that's it that's really interesting because it's a con like I'm not competitive right I'm not sporty I never was sporty like I I just not like it's just not the way I am I you know there's things I definitely care about and I'm annoyed about myself if I don't do well but I'm not like typical sporty yeah I'm married to someone who is so competitive yeah wants to be the best at everything like and so we have this you know I'm learning like and he's learning as well yeah yeah so when it comes to our kids I get that like I really get that you I mean the whole medals for taking part thing yeah I get but I also don't get yeah because in life you don't always win and and you do lose and it's a lesson I'm totally with you because I think that the biggest strength is to teach kids how to lose when they're young yeah because they can move on really quickly deal I'm not saying don't take part do take part imagine them like never losing going for their driving test and failing and it being the end of life not getting a job interview not getting into schools of course so important that's where we're at now applying for senior schools right and my kids are at a primary school where it's not competitive right that may be getting a little bit now but it hasn't been every you know in fact there's one thing there's one house competition thing where actually they get more points for losing which again i don't understand but we're getting to the stage now where you're applying for secondary schools and you've got to go for interviews you've got to show up who you are you've got to you have to big yourself up you've got to stand there and be like yeah almost arrogant with your achievements you've got to go to days where there's hundreds of kids doing sport and you've got to have that yourself wanting to win and it has but there's been no build-up to it there's been nothing and we're like you know for my son right now he's probably quite lucky that he's got the dad that he's got because he's always had that like drive no mate like you win or you lose and that's that's that but there's they're under so much pressure now because they're getting a little insight into the real world and also especially i'll say young girls young girls are taught that they must just be humble yeah I'm like what about shouting about your achievements so they all downplay when they downplay everything they've achieved they'll put their heart and soul on the line for it and then and then they'll just be like okay yeah it was all right I did win but please don't make me go up in assembly and get a trophy or a badge for my skirt you know that is like the worst thing they don't want to be different and actually what we've got to do is celebrate those who are vocal about having big dreams and slight difference with girls and boys there I find when I'm when I'm coaching is that we celebrate boys who go out there and say hey I want to be the best you're like hey good job for the confidence whereas young girls they're peer groups if they say I want to win they're like oh you're so arrogant and that comes from their peer group because we're just all taught to just be really humble and when I work in America doing keynote speaking it's so different because you're there and all the American women are like hey I'm the best too Shemi I did this and I'm like oh this is so refreshing and I think that we need to culturally catch up with that yeah see my daughter does gymnastics and that's quite like a solo sport so they are quite like yeah no I'm I got gold and that is it yeah and I love that for her because that's what I didn't have ruthless and you've got to have yeah exactly and I didn't I didn't have that and I sort of wish I did so raising kids now I want them to have that definitely because I Like that's really, it's interesting what you say about downplaying achievements because that you, it's almost bad to be a bragger.

43:52Yeah, it is. But even with parents at school, right? I do it now. They'll be like, oh gosh, like I saw that, you know, Gigi did this and I'm like, oh yeah, bless her. And I think, why am I saying this? Like I am really proud of her. Like, so why can't I say that? But you feel like you're showing off. I know, but I mean, it infiltrates into everything. So I play loads of paddle. when I started to play paddle I know three years ago yeah it was only older men playing yeah and I would join every club going because I just wanted to play and they would all be like oh god here's misaggression coming in and that's what they used to call me because I wanted to win and I and I sat them down after a month's getting on building up the confidence because they were like oh you're so aggressive Shemi and I'm like right okay let's sit down guys if I was a man and I played like this just take a moment and tell me what adjectives you would use and they'd be like we probably say you're good probably say you're attacking you know competitive and I'm like so as a woman why do you keep saying aggression because that has connotations and negativity yeah it does really and I'm like and it and because I'm a confident very thick-skinned woman I will keep coming here and hitting the ball hard at you at the net because that's my natural instinct because I want to win but a less confident woman coming into your circle you saying that would either leave or change how they play change how they exist so I'm like the narrative and the words is so important I was like I I love being an attacking woman I love being a woman who goes and grasps life with confidence and I totally get judged for it and then also when I have low days I found it hard to talk about low days because people think I'm always happy yeah get that and always gunning for it um and then when I you know on social media if I say oh I'm feeling sad today the infiltration of support is unbelievable in the community because no one ever sees me like that um but that's you know that's great to have that behind you yeah that's in I was actually joined beginner's paddle great so good last week oh it's the best six week course my husband plays he doesn't want to play with me um which is fine i also don't want to play with him yeah that's um but it's it's all women and they actually said because they were like showing me how you join games and you know that kind of stuff and they were like oh i just avoid playing with men that's what they said to me they were like because you know they'll just get cross with you and blah blah like if you want to build up your confidence play with women because or yeah you use it as your superpower so on Saturday mornings I'm the only woman who plays still and I love it because I'm one of them and sometimes have you heard the expression in paddle they put you in the fridge no so if you're a good player I'm weak one I really don't know anything okay that means that um they alienate you from the game so if a woman is playing with three men quite often they'll think the woman is weaker and they always play at the woman and they put the the partner of the women is a man in the fridge so they don't get to play okay so I quite love it because if they if the people I'm playing against don't know that I can play I hit all the balls they're hitting everything at me I have the potential all the time it's very frustrating for my partner who never gets hit it um but I just I don't know don't take that take you know you play with your women get your confidence up and then definitely you know take on the men we can do it I mean I am like pre-beginner stage right now there isn't a pre-beginner stage there is only beginner yeah okay we're not being humble anymore no no no but I'm just being truthful okay that's yeah I will say my strengths and I know where my strengths okay like are not then they are not on the paddle court um which is fine yeah yeah and also it's not what I want it for I want it for enjoyment and to learn something new so that's what I want with me and paddle I did it with wake surfing a few years ago because I think once you get to motherhood or especially over 40 you stop learning anything and I was like right I'm gonna learn to wake surf I'm gonna learn to skateboard so I did that on my 40th birthday and it took me forever and it was ages and that's what I'm doing with paddle now I even invest in a private lesson sometimes yeah because I'm like I want to get better and it's lovely to think that life's not over for improvement yeah and we sometimes think that we're like are we you know whatever we are at now we've done all our development stage yeah we're just existing with the talents and the skills we've got that's not true that's no there's always opportunity for growth whatever that is for me the reason I did it was because I always say you know when we go on holiday my son and daughter and my husband will go off and play paddle or something and I'm always like oh no not for me like I'm not good at it but I thought what am I teaching them here that you have to be good at something to join in so I was like no I'm gonna go off I'm gonna learn the basics and I'm gonna show that you don't have to be like the next time When you're on holiday, you're going to be the dark horse.

48:29Your family's going to be like, oh, mum's here. Let's hit at her. And you're just going to be like, boom! Yes. Vibosa! Exactly. Bandeka, at your face! It's going to be so good. Oh, gosh. Do you know what? I just looked at the time, and we have been chatting for so long. Have we? Yeah, I know. And we're going to have to stop. But I'd love to know what's next for you. What's... So what's next is to try and keep the family content energy and the passion for the mountains and stop my sons from being best friends for 90 % of the time and hitting each other for the last 10%. I don't know how that, I turn around and they're like cuddling each other because they love each other.

49:09And I think, oh, I can have a breath and a cup of tea. And I turn around, they're punching each other. So my parenting learning in the future is to find out why that 10 % happens and try and stop that from ending in tears. Life is just amazing. We've got this winter, Ski Sunday, we've got the Winter Olympics, which is in Cortina which is one of the most beautiful places in the world and I'll be out there in the studio so I don't have to pretend the last few Olympics I've been in Manchester in a green room wearing a jacket pretending I was on location this year I'm actually on location you're actually there amazing so I'm going to drink loads of coffee and have loads of pasta and have the best winter ever that sounds amazing and if you've listened to the podcast you'll know that we always ask our guests for the best piece of advice that they've ever been given or that they would give to a parent yeah it can be related to anything I think on the theme of our conversation I'll go with my daily motto and it's I never lose either I win or I learn I love so to turn losing into a learning and I actually succeeded recently because my son did his first ski race and huge pressure target on his back because everyone knows he's our child and he fell and he got back up pushed in and at the bottom I could see he wasn't understanding his emotions and I went over and I'm like darling if you want to cry if you want to he's like I'm just I'm just processing what happened because I know that I didn't lose but I'm learning right now and I was like oh my god I've drummed it in I've won I love that god that's amazing we've never had that before oh good that's great thank you thank you thanks so much I really want to dive into this how pushy is too pushy thing and we need to find a guest who can come on and like it may be a psychologist or a mindset coach or someone who can unpick this whole thing because you know she's very definite with how she feels I when I speak to someone like her I'm like yeah I totally get it like I get why you do what you do I get that's how you know you succeed I get all of it but I need like that reassurance yeah but you don't make a champion without having no parents or pushing you know influence I just I was thinking about it so much with kit's football and you know i'm like if he wants to be a footballer the chances are very slim that that's going to happen unless i'm one of those football mums on the sideline being like you know taking driving him here and encouraging him to train every day the diet has to be on and you think like david beckham there's a reason he he's david beckham and that's probably a lot to do with his with his parents it's a funny one isn't it it's an interesting one but fascinating conversation george well done i love that you handled that by yourself don't get used to it because i'm back next week i don't want to get used to it thank you so much for listening to today's episode thank you to chemi as always we'd love you to rate review subscribe and please give our podcast a follow yeah and if you've got any feedback on this episode or someone that we can talk to and rack their brains about pushy like pushy parenting or like ambitious parents then please drop us a dm on instagram we're on at made by mamas and we'll be back on friday

52:15Thank you.