Chloe Gill on Being A Mum-ager

0:00Amy Barnard: A Rayo original podcast. Hello, I'm Pete Wicks and my podcast Man Made is back for series two. I'm sitting down with more of my mates and famous faces to talk modern masculinity. Who we are, who we want to be and how we get there. Am I enough as any of these things? Am I any good at these things? Anger takes the place I think for men. Listen to Pete Wicks Man Made now. New episodes every Wednesday on the Rayo app, Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits.

0:42Amy Barnard: With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot.

0:45Chloe Gill: We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you.

0:55Amy Barnard: Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review.

1:04Chloe Gill: You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hey, dance mum. Dance mum. I actually loved being a dance mum. How was it? Well, I did nearly get arrested. What? I'm not even joking, right? Was he a sexy French policeman? Yeah. Oh, I told you! I knew it! And it actually really helped. So, I mean, it felt dramatic at the time, but actually saying it back, it doesn't feel that dramatic. So, very short.

1:35Amy Barnard: Go on.

1:35Chloe Gill: Got to Paris and getting a taxi from the airport. We were walking out. And you know what it's like? Everyone's like, oh, do you want to go here? Do you want to go there? And you're like, no, no, no, no. I'm just going to find the official taxi rank. And then the mum that I was with, we quickly looked up on Uber. But like the pickup point for Uber was ages away. And then the normal taxi rank was there. And he said, oh, how much is Uber staying? and we said oh like I don't know what it was 40 euros and he said oh yeah I'll do it for 48 official taxi rank so we were like oh right yeah fine whatever get in I'm in the back with the girls the um Gigi and her mate and the other mum's in the front anyway she said there was lots of conversations going on on the phone and so she kind of knew it was going to happen when we got to the hotel the guy said 90 okay and she I mean to be fair I probably would have been like no we said this and then given in she said no we said 90 and then he said no he said no no no sorry she said no we said 40 no we're not paying 90 we will give you what we agreed because I had my phone out in French or in English no in English okay and he's like oh no not possible all of this She went, phone your guy.

2:51Chloe Gill: That's what he said. No, it's not possible. It's not possible. Anyway, he gets out the car, leaves us in the car. And she was like, he's locked us in. I said, no, he hasn't. I unlocked the car. I said, come on, let's just get out. Like, whatever. She said, but we haven't paid. And I said, but he's left us. Let's get out. So we got our things out, walked to reception. He was at reception shouting at the receptionists. And so we said to the receptionist exactly what happened. And they said, oh, he said he's going to call the police. and we were like, go on then, call the police. Saint-Pierre. You're not going to call the police.

3:21Chloe Gill: With his extra large baton. Yeah, with his baton. Thinking, whatever, you're not going to call the police. Then there's obviously other mums who are on this trip in the hotel reception. This is brilliant. And I'm like, oh God, this is really like a lot now. This is becoming quite embarrassing. He's like shouting at us. And anyway, gave him 50 euros and said, that's it. Like, go. Go away. We thought he'd gone. and we've dropped our bags off and we're like, right, come on, we'll take the girls into Disneyland now. One of the other mums goes, there's four armed police officers in the reception. All my prayers have been answered.

4:00Chloe Gill: Oh my God, what? So the other mum is like, right, let's leave. Let's just go. They're never going to find us. They're not going to. And I was like, no, we've never done anything wrong. So I just walked out there and I was like, hi. And obviously they're like, oh, it's you. I was like yeah hi like what's the problem you know we said we'd pay him this this and this and he said oh boy he told he said you haven't paid obviously all this is going on I said no we've paid what we agreed he's standing there going getting all irate see I don't know what he's saying he could be saying anything yeah so I'm thinking oh no I think we might be in trouble here because they were really like quite stern so I'm just standing there thinking oh god oh god Batter your eyelids, flick your head.

4:44Yeah, and then he goes, don't worry.

4:46Chloe Gill: Enjoy the rest of your day. Ah, yes. The French policeman bent over and you run. I know. And then we kept seeing him because he was obviously like the Disneyland policeman. And we're like, hey, hi. All the armed policemen in Paris.

5:03Amy Barnard: Yeah, we know all of them. Wow. I know. By the way, that is a thing that happens regularly. Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you agree a price. They get in and suddenly you get in and suddenly it's a different price. Yeah, exactly.

5:13Chloe Gill: And they did say, the police, the policeman did say, don't get in the taxi here, just get Ubers. Well, obviously, it's like agreed already. I was like, yeah, cool, we will. But obviously, the girls were like, ah, we're gonna be arrested. And then now they're like, oh, my God, you remember, mum, when you said you were gonna pay that man and you didn't, you nearly got arrested. Oh, my God, the way they turn the stories around. Hang on, I was the victim. So yeah, it was good. It was actually really, like.

5:39Amy Barnard: She looked so beautiful and so, you know, just so determined. Did she do well?

5:44Chloe Gill: Yeah, she's amazing. She doesn't get, it's a lot of people. Yeah. Like, it was a huge, like, I don't know how many people, like, a thousand people? I don't know. A lot of people watching. Wow. And they just don't really, just did it. And then I was like, oh, well done. You're so good. She's like, okay, can we go and get some chicken nuggets now? I'm like, all right. Hello. Are you there? Yeah, she's just not faced.

6:09Amy Barnard: well done how was your ski trip it was amazing it snowed for the entire week my god it started snowing on sunday and it didn't stop until 4 p.m on friday which was our last it was a total white out this they haven't had that much snow in the alps for four years we were really lucky because lots of the other resorts were closed like team was shut they had high winds um so it was quite it was quite tough on the kids they nailed it they did not care at all the person that did care was does oh really oh i mean bless him he did really well he's only done five weeks of skiing yeah but you know in those conditions you have to be super careful all i was thinking about was please please please i don't want to have another accident me or does the kids are like flying past us at 40 miles an hour i mean my mind the internal narrative is like oh my god don't go for that jump oh my god isla slow down oh my god this person coming is going to hit luna it never stops you do feel worried for them but it's totally worth all the hassle because it was absolutely brilliant and we

7:07Chloe Gill: drove which was amazing oh yeah I saw a lot of people like driving it's like two and a half thousand pounds cheaper that's why because the flights are wild and then you have to pay for a

7:15Amy Barnard: transfer to get up the hill but yeah we had a great time we had a very a very very funny moment in the car coming back where me I had to sit in the back because Luna gets car sick and so it was me Kit in the middle and Isla on the other side and we were asleep it we were asleep it was like seven o 'clock in the morning we'd been on the road for like two hours and then out of nowhere I just heard Luna going like that and I was thinking oh my god I was like in panic panic and she went dad farted and it made me sick Doz had dropped one in the car had woken her up and she puked into the well I was and he still maintains it wasn't him and I was like we were all asleep in the back That was clearly you.

8:00Chloe Gill: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

8:01Amy Barnard: So that was the story of the car journey coming back. But yeah, we nailed it. I'm good.

8:06Chloe Gill: I don't feel like I've had a holiday. No, that's the problem, isn't it?

8:09Amy Barnard: I'm really tired.

8:10Chloe Gill: Yeah, well, I feel like that after bloody trekking around Disneyland. Right. You know? When are we going to Maldives? Yeah, I mean, hopefully. Yeah. Anyone listening want to send us to the Maldives? Call us. Have you seen all this stuff about freeloaders? Oh, no. Like all the people, like influencer and celebrity freeloaders. I'm like, you know, how did they get that? Sign me up. I'll do that.

8:31Amy Barnard: We don't care if you call us freeloaders. We're in.

8:34Chloe Gill: We're happy. And anyone listening who said they wouldn't take them up on the offer, you're lying. You're absolutely lying.

8:41Amy Barnard: We've got a really great conversation for you guys today, so we need to get into it. We absolutely love the bones of today's guest. Georgia's been mates with her for a really long time. So have I. We've had her on the podcast. Not many people we have on the podcast three times. No. But she has been a guest once over Zoom, I think during lockdown. Once with her husband. husband and then but we got her in the flesh didn't we today yeah and also having completely

9:02Chloe Gill: different conversation all three times and I think that's what I love about this we've been doing it so long and every stage of people's lives are so like so different um but it's a topic as well that we really wanted to cover we talk a lot about you know supporting our kids interests and And that is absolutely what this guest has done. She is all in, like, so supportive, so, like, I don't know, driven. Yeah. And, like, so were her kids.

9:33Amy Barnard: I had a bit of a feeling on the podcast today that I was looking at her and thinking, I really wish that, I haven't shared this yet, but Luna has completely dropped off with wanting to do anything. Not skiing. She's the best. Yeah, yeah, yeah. by the way she's absolutely amazing but everything else I'm having to force her to go to and I'm wondering if anyone listening is experiencing that where she doesn't want to do her sport she doesn't want to do her running club anymore she wants to drop out of acro it's happened last six months I think but I'm having to she's going because I'm making her go but I'm like am I pushing her too hard is she just not going to be a sporty person is it up is it is it our job as parents to just keep going at it and being because I know in the long term it will really serve her what I don't want to happen is for her and lots of girls it does happen to around 11 12 their sport completely falls off yeah I also think like I loved sport so much why doesn't she yeah I know that's what it's all about me I sort of think it's not necessarily about sport I think

10:32Chloe Gill: it's about interests yeah and I think we you know we get so many messages from people on Instagram who like oh my god how do you get your kids to do so many activities but I haven't been in a position yet where they've not wanted to i'd say maybe gg now with gymnastics is now suddenly like has to pick dancing or gymnastics you can't do both okay or be like not you can of course you can do both but if you want to do like one really well you've got to pick and it's difficult to let a child decide that do you know i mean i guess it's hard for you to let luna decide to give something up

11:11Amy Barnard: But if she could at the moment, she'd give up everything. And I don't know what's going on. And I think you're absolutely right. I think it's an interest thing. And it's also a trying thing and a bit of a resilience thing. We went to a cross-country match, the rut race the other day, and she just sat in the car. Kit ran. And I just thought, I don't need you to win. I need you to come top 10. But like, go out there. And she's an amazing runner. What is going on? So I think today's conversation was brilliant because there seems to be this natural desire in her children, whether it's genetics, nature, nurture.

11:44Amy Barnard: We had that conversation too, to go out there and smash it. Let's get into the chat. We need to stop talking. We do. And you need to listen to today's conversation. Who are we talking to, George? We are chatting to Chloe Gill. Joining us on the podcast today to chat all things motherhood, the juggle, the chaos, the gorgeous moments, the not so gorgeous moments, and what family life really looks like behind the scenes when one half of the parenting team goes on tour, for example. We can't wait to get into it with you. It's Chloe Gill! I should have said also being a mominger. A mominger.

12:17Chloe Gill: We always like to kick off these episodes by asking our guests how their mornings have been. And I'm looking forward to this one because I feel like you're going to be like, I've done this, this, this, this and this. It's only 5am.

12:30Jess Jones: I have to say this morning was hectic because it was a proper Monday morning. um chiara gets cellulitis in her eye um what's cellulitis really really swollen eye if it gets really bad it because she could end up blind it's quite dramatic like that she had it she started getting it last january and she's under consultant and we have to check it and check it and check it um she was on iv in january to stop it um this morning we woke up and our eye swollen so we Is it a skin infection? It's an eye infection, but it's on the top of her, like the lid. Right. This morning she woke up and, mommy, I was like, not today.

13:09Jess Jones: No, no, no, not today. I was like, I have to go into London today. So I emailed the consultant at like 6 a.m. I've got prescription antibiotics already waiting for me. When I finish, I can go and pick it up. I said to her, you're going to go to school. She's gone in with like a heat. If you put heat on it, it hopefully drains it down. so spoken to the teachers obviously it's happened quite a few times so she's there they're quite used to it but it's the start of it so I was like I've got till lunchtime to get antibiotics into her so you're gonna go to school for the morning but it's so stressful yeah because you start worrying and it just takes you back to thinking oh I don't want to go back to hospital again so that was my morning and Jay went straight to work I was just like do I send her do I bring her do what do I do so I was like you're going to school yeah literally it was I was like do I bring her with me today I I was like, you can just sit on the sofa.

13:56Jess Jones: But I was like, you're going to school. I'll be with you by lunchtime. We'll have antibiotics. So that was very stressful. Will you go and pick her up from school at lunchtime and take her home? I will just go in and I'll give her antibiotics. Yeah. And then once they're in, she's fine. She feels good in herself. It's just her eye gets really sore. So that was the first thing that woke me up this morning. So it was immediate juggle. Do I just, what do I do? I can't handle the girls.

14:17Chloe Gill: No.

14:18Jess Jones: So I was like, no, drop them off. Sort it all out later. And the kids go to the same school? At the moment, yes. This will be our last year of going to the same school, which is also very.

14:27Chloe Gill: How do you feel about that?

14:29Jess Jones: I feel very emotional. Have you? Do you? Yeah. I feel a bit better now. While he was going through his exams for secondary school, I cried a lot. I don't know whether it was because I was taking on his stress. He was obviously like wanting to make sure that he did well. He worked so hard for his exams. I think it's the end of second. No, not secondary. It's the end of primary school. Starting secondary school is such a big jump. but he's ready if that makes sense I think it's safe to say you have got two of the biggest

15:01Amy Barnard: high achieving children that I have ever seen ever I mean I was watching your Instagram videos at the time when obviously Ace was going through his scholarship auditions and you guys were sitting in the car and you were praying together and it was this is a really lovely moment you very much eat sleep and breathe your kids to the point of like relentless kind of being there right Talk us through that. I think that comes from my mom being like that for us.

15:29Jess Jones: I think my sister and I, and she's just like, whatever you want to do, you can do if you set your mind to it. That's been instilled and that's just in me. So I'm just like, whatever they want to do, if it's cooking, if it's football, if it's anything, I will put 100 % in to make them, you know, help them, support them, you know, in that journey. and I think with Ace especially being my first I was just like you're anything you want to do do you want to do that photo shoot cool let's go and do that do you want to do this and I think Jay and I have always just included him in everything that we've done so we've been in front of camera when he was younger and he's like I want to do that that's cool so we've just involved them and it's not a big thing like Ace will not talk about any of his jobs that he does at school um to a point where the teacher goes we have to tell them now because you're going to be out for three weeks and your friends are going to wonder where you are but he's just he just gets on with it and I think that's just we've kind of just involved them as much as possible in in life and it's their normal life I just went to wait I remember when he started school he said so what does your daddy do on telly he thought everybody's daddy was on telly auntie Fleur was like on telly all his uncles uncle Aston and you know uncle Marvin uncle Rich all on telly so he just thought everyone's daddy was on telly but they were like what are you talking about but he he's I don't know so when he's on telly he's just like it's cool dad does it I do it so just for those listening

16:52Chloe Gill: who don't know exactly what ace does he plays football he just just just give everyone a rundown

16:59Jess Jones: been in the academy system he's at Tottenham Academy come on you spurs I can't believe I said

17:07Amy Barnard: I've been indoctrinated by Dozza. I'm a United fan. Are you? Yeah, we've got a house full of Spurs fans. So now you've just moulded in. So now, yeah. It was quite brilliant when United were playing Spurs like two weeks ago, and I was just sitting on the sofa just going... What a game. That was a game. That was a game, wasn't it?

17:22Jess Jones: That was a game. And Ace was like supporting Spurs, obviously, at the time. Yeah. And you guys came in and, you know, scored right at the end. And Ace was like, oh. I said, you can't. Man United always do it. Right at the end. He was like, oh, wow. How long has he been playing football for? So it started in lockdown. He was about six. And, you know, you could have one person in the garden teaching them. We were doing PE lesson or whatever. And he just loved football. He loves sport. So he was playing and he was having one-to-one coaching. And the guy said, he's actually quite good. She should get him in a grassroots team.

17:55Jess Jones: Got him in a grassroots team to a point where he was scoring goals in the wrong goal, but running, you know, and going, yes, mommy, I've got to go. Yes, wrong goal, but well done, son, well done. um but he he just he fell in love with it fell in love with playing got into his grassroots team um started getting picked up by scouts and then we went to every club one night I was at Brighton then I was at Chelsea then I was at Arsenal literally the week I was at five different clubs and I was like wow this this is a lot this driving around taking Kiki with me in a pram um and I just was like hopefully he'll sign someone at least we'll settle and it will calm down.

18:35Jess Jones: You sign the contract. It doesn't calm down. You're obviously going to one place, but the intensity just, um, it's a lot, it's a lot on the family. It's a massive commitment, but he loves it. And I love watching him. We all love watching him and you get the joy of watching your child do something that they love. And I think I always say to him, are you sure you want to do this? Because we don't need to be here. And he's like, no mommy, I love it. I love it. And he gets up early. He packs his bags. He's really organized. So I think as much as, as long as he loves it and he loves doing it we'll always be there so he does school in the day yeah normal

19:08Amy Barnard: school and then what happens when he's a little bit earlier sometimes because i have to get up to a training ground in tottenham you have to you have to go from your house in kent so i go from my house in kent to school yeah school school i pick them both up because he comes out a little

19:27Jess Jones: bit earlier we then drive up to training we get there just on time which is at the tottenham Tottenham training ground yeah and we will be there for two hours dinner's on the road food snacks on the road Chiara's doing homework with me finish training come home get them to bed so we do that three times a week and then on the weekends we have games so that could be in Manchester that could be in Liverpool that could be at home that just depends on whatever they send

19:54Chloe Gill: you that week you mentioned that it has an impact on the family and Kiki like has been used to being in the buggy. How do you think it impacts her? Because obviously it's amazing for Ace because it's his dream and he's living it out. How is that sort of presenting itself for her right now? Massively, I think. Yeah.

20:12Jess Jones: And I think that's really changing. I'm really starting to see a change. She's getting older. Yeah. He, when she was little in the pram, she didn't really know. She'd have an accident. And she's always slept on the road. I think that my kids have been always good at sleeping. I'm like, guys, go to sleep. Sleep now. And they just go straight to sleep wherever we are. I'm like, Kiki, it's bedtime. Take your jammers. Let's go. And I feel like now she's a bit like, she's nearly seven. She's doing her dancing. She's got her own shows, like dancing shows. She does her gymnastics. She loves singing in the choir.

20:41Jess Jones: She's just got in swim squad at school. So she's got her own things. And she's just like, mommy, I have to do this. This is about me. And I'm just like, absolutely. And I'm making sure that she has her moment too. Because it was similar time. He was about six or seven when he fell in love with his football. She's now finding her groove. and I have to make sure I can't split myself in two because that's impossible but I feel like I'm I'm managing I'm having to manage and make sure that she's getting the same amount of attention because it is a lot having a child in an academy yeah and they take up so much time and they do take priority because if you know there's a there's something on on a Saturday and Ace is being pulled in and called to go up and play something he then takes priority so I then make sure I have to call in you know if Jay's around or if my hopefully he is he's not on tour but if my parents are around I'm like could we make sure she does get to her dancing so she can still do her thing because otherwise he takes priority and takes over so here's a thought um one child gets to live out their dreams and the other doesn't how does that land so that's quite a lot of footballers actually like when you when you hear about you know I don't know if it's Jude Bellingham not Jude Berlingham I think it may be Trent they've spoken openly about their brothers not being able to fulfill their dreams because they were always running around because of the other brother or maybe not as good yeah you know so there that that does happen but no I won't let that happen sorry of course you won't I do not doubt that I really don't doubt that

22:18Amy Barnard: it's interesting though the sibling dynamic it is I I think I don't know we we have slightly the sort of reverse in the fact that Kit is the youngest sibling, but he is the one that is, you know, super sporty and he can do everything. He's playing rugby, he's playing football, cricket, you know, he does everything. And there's always a focus on Kit's football across the weekends. And what I'm noticing now with Luna is this drop-off of her sport already at 9, 10. And we are the sportiest family, right? So I will not let that happen. But her brother is now faster, quicker. You know, he's more dynamic.

22:51Amy Barnard: he's suddenly starting to take over and she it's like I said to Dossie the night I was like we still have to let her shine just because we think that he's special and he's good you know I hope if he wants to do it then he can but like she's being lost slightly in that moment yeah it's

23:08Chloe Gill: interesting actually because you will always have that in a family yeah where you've got one child who really shines and like you know I mean with us Axel's the first child and he's like very much her first child like you know we threw everything into it you know tutoring football you know all of it and he's like good at all of the bits and then Gigi's sort of like well oh she'll be all right and then now she's like six and he's seven we're like oh shit like she's actually quite good at this yeah we haven't really nurtured it in the same way but I do I think it's quite natural that you have I think especially when like say with Doza and Kip he's done something like he's played sport so it's easy for him to sort of help and encourage when he's been there and done it whereas if it's something completely unknown like for instance for me like if Gigi suddenly was amazing at tennis I wouldn't have a clue what to do you're a paddle expert aren't you Georgia do you know what I mean it's I just think it naturally will happen but yeah how do you work that with siblings like how do you explain or I don't yeah I don't know it's quite difficult I

24:15Jess Jones: think I think it's it's easier being a boy and a girl that makes it different because obviously there's different things but you know two sisters in doing the same thing there is always it's like a little bit of competition isn't it you know usually and and there's the jealousy I don't know because they're better or if especially if the younger is better than the older and that I'm like a here first but I I always try and make them have their thing like and that's easier I guess because he is his football and she's you know she loves her swimming and her dancing but I'm always making sure that they're being praised for those things he got in his schools and she got in the swim squad so we took them out for dinner and said the reason why we're going out for dinner is because you're both did these amazing things but we're always trying to make sure we stop and have those moments to celebrate even if it's tiny little things like she got the most house points in her year so I was just like that's such an amazing achievement keeks like we've got to sit and you know wait and you know well done and make her feel that she's you know she's also getting the praise that he also gets because he gets a lot of praise from other people too do you get

25:14Amy Barnard: torn between thinking is it too much for them at such a young age do you absolutely tell us about

25:20Jess Jones: that part um I just think I always there's there's they're doing so much you know they're not going to birthday parties because you've got training or Ace misses out quite a lot of things but he then goes to one and he goes oh mom that was shit yeah why didn't I go and I'm just like well because I want to make sure that you know you're still going he's just like I'm not missing out on much am I well that wasn't that great so I'm like well that's your choice but at least we've been you've seen or we go to swans the works his best best friend and we have to go but I they're also gifted and I'm just trying to make sure I'm nurturing the gift um because is it nature or nurture do you think they're born because you know let's talk about you two as

26:08Amy Barnard: as humans and what you guys naturally i think ace is very gifted at both football and acting

26:13Jess Jones: kiki is just like i'm ready to take on the world mom so let's go she's you she's basically a mini me yeah so i feel like she might have to work a little bit harder a bit like me where i think jay is probably more like ace where it's quite natural born with jay's very gifted born gifted I think Ace is quite similar where Kiki's like oh I don't find that that easy but I'm gonna do it anyway and I'm a bit that's a bit me um but because they're they're so good at these all these other things I'm but I am always toying with are we doing too much do we need to relax that's why we even go on holiday and we do nothing and then they're like mum what's going on where's the list like what's happening like what's going on today Ace is literally like mum what's happening this week but I think that's because of maybe I've trained them like that yeah we'll be right back

26:58Chloe Gill: after this short break.

27:28Amy Barnard: on the Rail app, Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

27:37Amy Barnard: Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we?

27:41Chloe Gill: Having a child who's gifted is actually quite a big responsibility. And do you worry about pushing too far, but then equally not pushing enough?

27:53Jess Jones: Probably, yes. When you sit and think about it, you go, oh should I be doing that should I be pushing in that direction but then I'm also like if you don't then you're wasting it um I think we just try and work out the best balance and I think that he'll get to a certain age where you know he decides which path he wants to go down and that at the moment is looking more football he absolutely loves breathes does everything and I was very similar with my dancing like I knew I wanted to be a professional dancer when I was very young and no one could have stopped me like it was just set in my ways and that's what I wanted and he's quite similar in that in that aspect but we're keeping his toe in that he does a little voice over for animation and he's also very good at that and I think he loves doing it so I want him to also see that because especially when you're in the football world everything could become very just football sure and I don't want him to think that's the end of the world if it doesn't work out so there's other things that you can do there's other you know opportunities and he always says oh mom I'm just topping up my CV if I don't you know when I play football and then I'm just like topping up your CV you're only 11 but it's the things he's saying like he's just like that's just where he is it's like he's got this old head on his shoulders he's really mature and you know he's you know been really lucky that he's done such amazing things I mean he's auditioning for

29:13Amy Barnard: some massive roles yeah he is and he's obviously got the new series on Nickelodeon's just been and all the rest of it how are you setting him up for the future because he's not spunking all the cash on like oh you know the old partakers or like whatever it is he no i mean he he every

29:30Jess Jones: year at the end of the year he goes and buys himself a special present for the year whatever that might be you know a pair of shoes or something that he's wanted and he's looked for

29:38Amy Barnard: so he goes and does that with his own money and he's just so i want him to understand the value

29:42Jess Jones: of money so i'm just trying to teach him that as well but also just saving all his money you know you're doing all these jobs he checks his bank account he's just oh mom did I get paid did I said oh the other day you know we did a job and you got you know your fees increased oh great so he's just trying to understand the you know the value of money but we're just going to save it and you know potentially put it into investment or maybe buy a property with it just so he's set up for

30:06Chloe Gill: the future has he got friends yeah I know but has he got friends in similar like positions or is it

30:12Jess Jones: just like his own thing um at school not really but if we when we go and you know go on jobs we meet other children that are doing the same like one of the boys in his football show that he's doing is on Matilda tour at the moment so when he goes on shows like that he then meets other children so there's five children in the cast everyone's doing something so then he's just like oh wow there's are there are other children like me and I have you know a relationship with them But I think what's great is he's going into different situations all the time and meeting lots of people. And he's so, so confident.

30:45Jess Jones: So when it came to his secondary school interviews, he was like, oh, mum, they only want to talk to me for five minutes. It was fine. So he's really confident because he's been able to speak to directors and he does castings and he does auditions because he's just like, oh, I thought they were going to talk to me for ages. But so it's life skills as well as, you know, him auditioning for stuff.

31:03Amy Barnard: I'm always fascinated by child actors and child stars and how they manage to retain the elements of being a child within being so mature and doing things that adults find stressful. And but he seems to have you're obviously doing I want to say you're obviously doing a really, really amazing job because they seem like very balanced kids. At 11 years old, like I was just choosing like whether I wanted to wear Black Dot Martins or purple ones. And like, is Ben Brown going to be at the school disco? and kind of snog him. So it's like,

31:35Jess Jones: do you know what I mean? Like, I mean, he's still doing all of those things.

31:37Amy Barnard: Which is great, isn't it? Which is great because you don't want them to miss out on those key components in your whole life sphere. But it sounds like, I don't know, are you getting any rest? No, no.

31:49Chloe Gill: No, no. How are you, Gloria? Why would I get any rest? I'm glad for you. We've talked about, you know, everyone you're supporting in the family. But how, when do you have time for yourself?

31:59Jess Jones: I don't really, but I just feel like it's a season. I said it to my mom the other day. I was just like, life is crazy. She went, but it doesn't last very long. You don't have them for that long, you know. They will grow up and be their own people. And it's true. I think, you know, when they were babies and we're breastfeeding, you're like, oh, my goodness, when will this stop? It does. And then they talk to you. And then, you know, now I'm, you know, lucky enough to go on tours and take the kids to castings and chat about, you know, our days in the car. Oh, mom, blah, blah, fancies, blah, blah.

32:30Jess Jones: I'm like, oh, great, really? so then you talk about that and then it's gonna we're now going to secondary school and it's the next season so I just feel like I'm in a season of you know they take over my life and they consume everything but that's not always going to be hit that's not always going to be what it is so I feel

32:47Amy Barnard: I'm just in that at the moment how much of ace watching his dad on stage has contributed to his desire to do what he's doing do you think he wants to out achieve him do you think he wants to match him do you think he's had that concept or do you think it's just as we said earlier on maybe a bit

33:02Jess Jones: ingrained genetically I don't think he really realizes I think it's ingrained I just think he's got this passion that he loves and he wants to fulfill it and I think because we've both said you know we've been able to do that in our life you know both of us have said we've been able to complete our dreams which is an amazing thing to say especially when we're both so young um Ace is just like well I can then yeah so I just think that it's in there rather than because he doesn't want to sing he doesn't want to do anything like to do like what daddy's doing where kiki a little bit more is like oh yeah i'd like to do that but i think ace is it's just in in them i think but i think that we've probably ingrained that from like the way we brought them

33:40Chloe Gill: up it's interesting isn't it because you hear about you know people who have got really successful parents they're not having any drive for themselves because everything is there for them already and they sort of feel like they don't have to work they call nepo babies well what does a nepo baby

33:57Jess Jones: stand for isn't it um i don't know i just saw katie price actually put a picture up with um princess princess yeah and the cover is saying nepo baby oh so i'm like is that because she's getting the cover or she's modeling because of i don't know i don't know it feels like a negative

34:15Chloe Gill: though doesn't it nepo baby feels negative yeah but i just wonder what it stands for yeah i don't No. But I guess not even just in nepotism. Of course it is. Oh, right. Okay. I thought it might be an acronym. An acronym. Yeah. That's the word I was looking for. But I guess even, you know, not in that world, it could be like a really successful banker or whatever. Yeah. You can have children who then don't have any drive because they've grown up with everything and they just think that that's just the way life is. But it's really interesting that with your kids, you guys are both really successful and then they have got that drive.

34:51Chloe Gill: I don't know why. I don't know why they've got that.

34:54Jess Jones: I don't know. It's great that they do. It is, yeah. And I'm very happy they do because otherwise I wouldn't be happy. I'd be like, honey, you're slipping down there.

35:03Amy Barnard: That was going to be my next question, actually, because maybe I'm thinking about my own setup slightly here with two parents who are, you know, grafters, have always worked, have big careers, you know, does play for England. I haven't done that. I haven't done that, but I'm all right. You're definitely a grafter, babe. I am a grafter and I'm thinking how will I feel if they don't want to do something that like fills them up or lights their heart it's not a financial attachment to it but like how would I feel if they were just a bit meh about their careers I think I'd find that quite hard I think I'd want them to do something that they truly love but lots of people don't find that do they no they don't do you know what I'm saying yeah it's like because I sometimes I have to keep reminding Doz that he played for England but Kit might not might not

35:47Jess Jones: Yeah.

35:48Amy Barnard: High chance he might not.

35:49Jess Jones: But then he might do something completely different and then that's his thing. I think it's trying to not say, Kiki, mommy was a professional dancer, so you're going to be one. No, we just find out what your little thing is. And that could change. It changes all the time. Do they have to have a thing to make you happy? It's not about making me happy. It's more just making them happy, I think. Having that, you've got to, you know, something, there's something you do love. And he's finding it. Whatever it is, it could be anything.

36:19Chloe Gill: See, I find this hard in our house. I sometimes think that James is way too hard on our kids because he has got such high expectations of himself, of everybody around him. I mean, it drives me mad. Like, it works in my favour sometimes. He just doesn't let me do things because I'm not good enough. Which is brilliant. You can't put a powder with me or shit. No, no, no, it's brilliant. Like, I've never been allowed to do the washing because I'm not. What? I'm not a leader washing so I'm like great that's fine like cool I'm not good enough at washing I won't do it but I'm an adult you know like I can cope with that like that's fine like I'm just taking it for what it is but then I feel like with the kids because he is the way he is and has always been like it about everything I think oh god are they then going to think then because then are they not good enough I don't know that they're not good enough or they don't I don't know because you're there because you're there though but you're the balance

37:20Jess Jones: yeah because you you aren't gonna be doing that you'd be like come on darling no I roll yeah I

37:26Chloe Gill: roll no don't worry about daddy's having a moment yeah I don't I don't think I don't think that they

37:32Amy Barnard: will be like that yeah I do what more do they want like our kids are doing clubs yeah every single day of the week essentially if it's not tennis it's hockey it's acro it's football and then there's still conversations that are being had. Yeah, not doing enough. I just think she needs to be a little bit more determined and a bit more determined. And I'm like, she's nine. She's going to these clubs. She started a new sport four months ago and is playing on a team every single Sunday. What more do you want from her?

38:00Jess Jones: I don't know. What are they doing it for? Because then I worry that they're doing it for all the other people around them to be the best. Or are they doing it for the child? Right, you mean the parents? Yes, the parents putting the pressure on. But where's the pressure coming from? to show everyone that they're the best or is it or you think you're the welfare of the child do you know what I mean because I don't you have to work out where that bit's coming from what are the other football parents like oh it's insane is it talk us through it it's so insane like just going from grassroots to academy like standing on the sidelines it's the end of the world if they're having a bad game you know if you're getting dropped you know that's their paycheck to potentially you know a new life a new life like it's so intense it's so intense and I'm do you like it or not kind of because it's you know it's a drive you know I kind of like the pressure I work really well under pressure um Ace works really well under pressure but yeah it's constant you know the worries they're you know going to get released but I just take a different spin on it I'm just like we go somewhere else yeah if you get released you go

39:05Chloe Gill: somewhere else for those listening who don't know it's every year isn't it every year yeah and that kids as young as seven can be released yeah kids as young as seven can be signed so you can sign

39:17Jess Jones: at nine yeah but they put you in the academy like pre-academy from seven and then you're there eight they sign you at nine and then it's a yearly until you get to about finish under 12s into 13s then it starts two years i think it might be different at different clubs but then obviously you do two years till 14 and then you start looking whether you're going to get a scholarship or not what does that scholarship then look like your scholarship is you're going full-time you're you know being you know pretty much a professional I think you might be getting a wage and then you're going to see if you're going to go to the first team or maybe you're going to go on loan but it's super intense like they are under so much pressure all the time it's if if families are under pressure that you know you're supporting the children under pressure it's an intense environment but I think you've got to just find your own little way like I try and keep aces completely calm about it as possible like we've just had his reviews um he's doing really well which is good but he's nervous he's like mommy this this will determine if I stay next year but I always say I I've changed what I've said I said it's an after school club I've started calling it an after school club where we'll just go to another after school club you know you're not a professional you have to remember and but a lot of the parents act like you already are yeah and that's the difference is you're not signed we're not professional athlete yes you are in the academy system but you're not a professional footballer 11 no you're in the system to be hopefully become one but I think a lot of parents think you are and I think that's the pressure that the children feel I always say to ace it's absolutely fine done we should go somewhere else you know if they don't think that you're right and it's for whatever reason you're fantastic at what you do because you're already in this place and you're in a handful of boys that are already doing it just go to another club you know we look at Eze is a fantastic example oh my god Eze he's such a fantastic example for the young children

41:13Amy Barnard: we're a bit sad about that though aren't we because we didn't get him he was gonna come to Tottenham and right at the last minute he signed to Arsenal because they came in quickly because we couldn't something I can't remember the last but he was I think he was at the

41:25Jess Jones: he was at the Arsenal Academy or something he was one of the academies so it's massive for him but he got dropped dropped dropped dropped dropped and then he's still done it so it's such a good example for the younger children within the academy system to be like you don't have to stay in one club you can go to different ones and also to learn with learn to deal with rejection

41:41Chloe Gill: in general because even if you know those kids don't go on to make a career out of football they have learned resilience rejection teams team like working as a team oh my gosh Dealing with adults. Absolutely. I mean, there is actually so much. There's so much. That comes from it as well.

41:59Amy Barnard: How hard is it to deal with rejection though? I feel like, I don't know about you as a professional dancer, but obviously you, you know, it's just knock after knock after knock. And that's why lots of people don't make it. Yeah. They don't, they, they, and I get it because you think one job could change your whole life. And I guess one contract can change your whole, you know, there's so much riding on it. If you don't get it, you've got to pick yourself up and you've got to go again. And that takes a lot of resilience. Do you think he has, even at his young age, do you think he has that resilience?

42:26Jess Jones: I do. I think that's just instilled in him. I think that he's probably been born with it. I was the same. I would audition. No, no, no, no. Too fat, too thin. Stand up front. No, you don't look good enough. And I'd just walk out the room and have my cry and go, cool, let's go again. And I just did that.

42:43Chloe Gill: But I think there's not enough of that for kids now. like I went to school where the headmaster would go oh you probably need to put a bit of makeup on today oh no you can't do that like it was horrible what do you mean put makeup on yeah I thought you were at makeup at school no no no 100 % was this when you were at jazz hands school yeah jazz hands school oh okay it was like oh no you know why have you got oh your hair doesn't look good like that oh you know it was ruthless but I think you almost don't I mean I wasn't affected by it like at all you're very thick skinned I'm thick skinned now now like but is that because of that yes or was I naturally like that because I think at school now our kids are like oh here's a medal for coming last oh here's I can't medal for everyone and I and I'm not harsh but I don't agree with that like I think what are we teaching yeah yeah absolutely but that's what are we teaching people but it's not even like I don't know I'm not competitive but I am like real yeah like I'm realistic yeah there's winners and there's losers or as James says winners are wankers say everyone's a winner that's not helping because not everyone's

43:51Jess Jones: going to get that job role not everyone's going to get that you know whatever it is you know that interview so someone will get it and someone's going to get that job so you can't be I don't agree with it either I really don't

44:02Amy Barnard: my mum used to say to me right because she's the reason that I'm presenting that's what she did in Australia and she really encouraged me to do it because she was like you've got something there and she said but let me tell you one thing there are going to it's going to be knockback after knockback after knockback And I used to phone her after, you know, getting the call that I hadn't got the job and hadn't got the job. And she was like, I will let you cry now. You go to bed. Tomorrow morning we go again. That makes me feel, I get goosebumps when I hear that because that was it. It really did impact me.

44:29Jess Jones: But we just get up and go again. But that's mum, isn't it? Mum's mum instilling it. So that's in you. So that's same as me. Mum's, it's been instilled. So I'm instilling again the same thing into my children. And they're taking it in their own little ways because they're both very different. but someone's instilling it.

44:46Chloe Gill: Yeah. That's where it's coming from.

44:47Jess Jones: Like James has had it instilled into him, I'm sure. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just the way you've, I guess you've been brought up and, you know, what the influence is in your life. Will it completely derail us if it all goes tits up? No. Are we too invested?

45:04Amy Barnard: Are we pushy mothers? Probably, yeah. Any fisticuffs at the football? Oh, gosh, yeah.

45:10Jess Jones: Oh, God, tell us about this. I've seen mothers go on to pictures, punch children, like six-year-olds. Yeah, police car. It's a night. No, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. I've had little kids running up to me going, shh, at me. I used to be one of the sideline mums. I would shout. I would be like, come on, let's go, let's go.

45:31Chloe Gill: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

45:32Jess Jones: I can't do that now because you can't do that in the academy.

45:34Chloe Gill: That's what I was going to say because when we came to watch Ace, I was like, oh, my God, I like this. This is silent.

45:39Jess Jones: Yeah, you can't.

45:40Chloe Gill: That's my idea of watching a movie. What happens? You get a penalty.

45:43Jess Jones: No, no, you just get told. You're not shouting. Obviously, they're older as well, and you're in an academy. You're not going to be here like standing hooligans. Go, little AC boy. Sometimes I would like to be. Sometimes it might come out, and then I might get in trouble. But, yeah, at grassroots, wild. Oh, that's wild, yeah.

46:03Amy Barnard: Wild. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's full on.

46:05Chloe Gill: But I think a lot of that is like dad's living out whatever, you know the anger that's coming out in them i stand next to dad so they're like they're like

46:14Jess Jones: kicking yeah for them and stuff like they are but i'm like whoa chill chill it's okay but i don't know it's just in them i guess they want their child to do well but you know at six it's crazy

46:26Amy Barnard: yeah they're really angry yeah put your boxing gloves away ladies yeah i'm glad we're out of

46:31Chloe Gill: that we'll be right back after this short break

46:38Chloe Gill: A Rayo original podcast.

46:41Amy Barnard: Hello, I'm Pete Wicks and my podcast man-made is back for series two. I'm sitting down with more of my mates and famous faces to talk modern masculinity, who we are, who we want to be and how we get there. Am I enough as any of these things? Am I any good at these things? Anger takes the place, I think, for men. Listen to Pete Wicks man-made now. new episodes every wednesday on the rail app apple spotify amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts welcome back to this episode of made by mamas now where were we how do you find time for you and jb what does that look like that's a lot of communication look at that deep

47:22Jess Jones: i know oh wow no um we're just great mates like we really are the best of friends i'm just so lucky that we have such a great relationship and I think that's just years of knowing each other how long have you known each other I think it's come up to 18 years wow been married nearly 12 um I mean he gets on my nerves I get on his nerves yeah but you know you know that and then you go you're really annoying me today and just whatever like let's just have a minute and then you come back at the end of the day and then something happens in the day or and you just start talking but it's just our communication I think that we've really really worked on that over the years and we just talk about everything like from the smallest thing to the biggest thing and we're just a couple of mates doing life together going how can we are we going to get through this one well what we're going to do and he is my person he's my the other half of me I can't do life without him really.

48:15Jess Jones: Has James your best friend?

48:16Chloe Gill: Yeah. Do you fancy him? Yeah at different times I mean sometimes no. Not currently after his hair transplant. Oh no I quite like it. Oh, you like the shaved? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I do. I was really worried about it, like about the shaved head thing, but I actually don't like it. I like it. Oh, Jason Statham vibes. He's really happy with himself.

48:36Jess Jones: So do you fancy him now?

48:38Chloe Gill: Definitely more. That's good. With the receding hairline.

48:41Amy Barnard: No, I'm joking.

48:42Chloe Gill: No, I mean, I'm not joking.

48:44Amy Barnard: It's true. Best friend is quite a big, that's a thought. Joss is not my best mate. He's not. I really fancy him, but I've been with best mates before that I've not wanted to have sex with. So I went for a different feeling. Like lots of stuff that Doz says, I'm like, what? Like, you know, I don't get it. We are great mates, but I would say I went to the opposite that this time. Like, you know, I've definitely gone for somebody that I fancy more than, you know, I'm aligned with. We're a Taurus and Scorpio. It's like fire.

49:14Jess Jones: That's perfect. You know that, right? Perfect, but then when it goes wrong. Yeah, no, not perfect. But who's Scorpio? You? That's why we're so good friends. I know. Are you Scorpio? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's probably really similar. I love Scorpio. Women are my favourite. Yeah, strong. I mean, don't mess with us because we're never coming back. We'll love you until we don't. Yeah, until we don't. But don't we love? Like, we're so intense. Oh, my God.

49:38Amy Barnard: And we need quite a lot. We're intense. My best friend is a Scorpio, and we were talking yesterday on the phone.

49:43Chloe Gill: Oh, so you've got best friend that's a Scorpio as well?

49:44Amy Barnard: I've got two best girl mates that are Scorpios.

49:47Chloe Gill: See, I've got a lot of friends that are Scorpios, but I'm quite a good, like, listener. and like a I like a you're a Gemini right I'm Gemini yeah I don't know what that means but well two personalities we can't do that without saying six seven now just saying

50:04Amy Barnard: and and do you and so like obviously best friends been together 18 years but what what does a date like look like for you do you ever have those yeah I mean we'll either go out for the day now

50:13Jess Jones: I think we could probably do lunch more than dinner now because obviously the kids at the moment and rushing back to go on a school run but just spending time together just being together or even if I went you know to work with him for the day and then we went and grabbed lunch together and chatted I just like being with him yeah we just like being together and it's just having time especially I think when he goes on you know if he goes on tour then we're away quite a lot and then reconnecting I find it quite difficult when he leaves the family and then there's there's the dynamic of the four he leaves then it turns into a three and we're like yeah cool we're getting on with it he then comes back in yeah it's really trying to you know sort that that out again because it's like oh but you weren't here and that's not what we've been doing for the last three months but it's just always changing but I just think spending time together being together even if it's lunch if it's dinner we go weekends away or he flew me to um Venice for the weekend for my birthday just lovely things like that just spending time together just like being with him

51:08Chloe Gill: getting the moments when you can I guess are you looking forward to the time when it's you two

51:14Jess Jones: i am actually yeah so i we recently went for dinner with a couple of friends of ours that are in that transition of the children have finished secondary school and are doing their own thing i was like so what's it like like because i'm always so intrigued about everybody what that next stage is she's having an affair with the pt i hope not my gosh he'd be screaming i love it that's where you go her brain goes yeah i know so does mine though how is it for them but no they love it so she's like we're spending so much time together we're going on holiday like we don't have to worry about the school run we're lying in like we're doing all this fun stuff and I was just like I'm actually really looking forward to having that time because so many people ask me if I can have another child I'm like Kiki's seven like that's a big that's a big gap and I'm actually looking forward to having that time with him again you know I thought well that's what if I still like him then no is it a hard no then for that for me yes not for him he would love more he's always wanted more yeah would you just worry about how you would split your time yes that is my most because if I'm like how if I'm not struggling but I'm like two's a lot yeah and they've both got big commitments where does the third one fit in that I'd want to give the same amount of attention to and I wouldn't want to have that I don't know maybe this goes back to when I was really a lot younger my mum and dad both really really busy business people my mom was running her own business and my dad was massive director of a company and we had nannies looking after us and helping us pick up I don't want to do that because I'm maybe because that's what I had right so I think I'm even more like I want to be there I want to be on the sidelines I want to be at that game I want to do that so I I worry that having another child I wouldn't be able to do that for them as as well as then you know I'll be like Ace can't come because I'm going to and he's had me for so long doing those things yeah wouldn't want him to feel neglected so I think I'd struggle splitting myself again um so that's why I'm like no Jay that's not happening and he's just like okay I don't think I think now he gets it yeah you're an all-in person I'm an all-in yeah yeah I'm either fully in or not happening you're a 10

53:22Amy Barnard: out of 10 super duper you're a legend what a lovely beautiful conversation can you please give us a piece of advice that you'd like to share with a parent listening to this podcast today

53:32Jess Jones: try not put too much pressure on yourself as I tell myself and listen to your children you know they you know even though they're little or maybe they're older just I find it quite good being in the car and we spend a lot of time in the car but that's a good time to talk because you're not sitting looking at each other face to face and they don't feel like they're not necessarily getting told off but when you're in the car just have those open conversations because they're not looking at you and then everything kind of comes out and just talk to them talk to your husband communication I would say just talk to your family and you know listen to what they've got to say but yeah keep working hard people because it's that easy this is the ground

54:17Chloe Gill: and products I mean we you know used to ask people about baby products and stuff and we're not really there now but what things do you love in your day-to-day life like whether that's for the kids Are there apps that help keep you organized or are there, you know, just things you love?

54:31Amy Barnard: Yeah, brands you love, products you love, kids, kids, like whatever sort of things that you use and have around the house, essentially. Gosh, that's a difficult question. You can also say, I don't have any.

54:43Jess Jones: I mean, everyone lives on Google, Matt, Google Calendar. That's not really an app.

54:47Amy Barnard: Oh, my God. My Google Calendar got hacked. No, that would be my life over. And I clicked onto it and every single note underneath said, we've hacked your account. All your photos and videos will be deleted or released. No, no, no. They've done that to me before. And I just thought, this is my Kim K moment. They're going to get into my private account and see all my sex tapes. They've done it to me before.

55:09Jess Jones: It's not real. No, it's not real. No, I just deleted it. They've deleted it to me before. So if you delete the email, but you have to go into your junk and make sure you permanently block them. Otherwise, it keeps coming up and it sits in your calendar. I was like, what do you mean? you're going to leak all my pictures

55:23Amy Barnard: I was like oh what do you mean you're going to leak all my photos

55:26Jess Jones: well what photos do you have I'm showing stone no so that it's not real okay fine but make sure you block it because I thought it was real but yeah I live by a calendar like that day to day minute by minute have you got a shared calendar? yes I do his diary do you? yeah but I feel like that's another way of being able to spend more time together because then I know where he's at. So then I'm like, cool, I'm going to do loads of stuff that day because you're that day. And then that day we can have off together. So maybe it's just a, maybe I just. You're like the UK Kris Jenner. You are. Stop. Oh, gosh.

56:05Jess Jones: I do love her, though. Oh, I love her. She is fabulous. Luckily, correct. She is fabulous. And she is bossing. And all of them are working. Exactly. And they're all minted. And she looks fucking amazing. She looks amazing. She looks amazing. I don't think I could do all the Botox though because I don't like needles.

56:22Amy Barnard: Do you not have any Botox?

56:23Jess Jones: No.

56:24Amy Barnard: Wow.

56:25Jess Jones: Do you? Yeah.

56:28Amy Barnard: Both of you? Yeah. I hate it when I've got expression.

56:31Chloe Gill: Oh, I've got loads now. I've got loads now, look. Yeah, I noticed that this morning. Yeah, mine's Wednesday.

56:38Jess Jones: Stop it. I've never put anything. I couldn't. I don't like... So what are you using on your skin then? Just, I don't really put much on. I think that's what it is. I don't laver it on with loads of makeup. I don't do, I don't know, maybe where I've done less.

56:53Amy Barnard: I don't know. If someone told me that my mum had died or won an Oscar, I just want the same look on my face. And on that note, ladies and gentlemen, Harry Gill! Yay!

57:09Amy Barnard: Oh my God. I love you. I kind of want Chloe to manage me. Yeah, me too. She should set up her own agency. She would not take any shit.

57:17Chloe Gill: That is for sure.

57:19Amy Barnard: I love her. So do I. Oh God, she's amazing.

57:22Chloe Gill: She actually really inspires me when, you know, the way she talks about how she runs the family and like, you know, she's across everything. And some people would look at that and be like, oh, she's really pushy, but actually you listen. Oh, but she's not. She's not at all. She's supportive and she is all in whatever they want to do, which I think. and she said about listening to your kids. I thought that was so interesting. Yeah, and I think so many of us probably think we do, but maybe we don't. Like we think we know what's best, but we're not actually listening to what they're saying.

57:56Amy Barnard: So what I took from that was maybe I need to sit down with Luna and say, Luna, what do you want to do? Yeah, I need to do the same. Tell me what you would like to do. Yeah. Is it Lego club? Is it sewing club? It might not be sport. No, she might be like,

58:08Chloe Gill: remember she used to love clothes and dressing up and we'd be like, oh my God, she's going to be a designer. do you remember that

58:13Amy Barnard: she said fashion designer but then she dropped fashion club as well

58:18Chloe Gill: but I just think sometimes it's the person as well like who's teaching them that has to inspire them

58:23Amy Barnard: she can't do nothing though George no no no

58:25Chloe Gill: she can't no she just needs to find her you know thing whatever that is

58:30Amy Barnard: she did say I want to be a presenter like you oh there we go and I said please don't it's fucking way too tough go out and be a doctor please get a nice salary every month you can look after us thank you so much to Chloe for coming on the podcast and as always thank you to you guys for listening. We'd love you to rate, review, subscribe and please give the podcast a follow so you don't miss an ep.

58:47Chloe Gill: Yeah, and if you've got any feedback on this episode or guests you'd like to hear from, drop us a DM on Instagram. We're on At Made by Mamas and we'll be back on Friday.

59:00Chloe Gill: A Rayo Original Podcast.

59:03Amy Barnard: Hello, I'm Pete Wicks and my podcast, Man Made, is back for Series 2. I'm sitting down with more of my mates and famous faces to talk modern masculinity. see who we are, who we want to be and how we get there. Am I enough as any of these things? Am I any good at these things? Anger takes the place, I think, for men. Listen to Pete Wick's Man Made now. New episodes every Wednesday on the Rail App, Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts.