Dr Megan Rossi on keeping your gut healthy

0:02Made by Mamas starts in just a moment, but first, what do your kids think you actually do all day? Over on Secret Mum Club, Safina and Emma have discovered what one listener's four-year-old thinks she does all day, and the review is absolutely brutal. Kids really do have a way with words. Search for Secret Mum Club and get the episode in your queue.

0:27I love days like these at the pool, but my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis can sometimes take me out of the moment. I'm ready to make a splash with clearer skin thanks to SkyRizzy, Rizinkizumab RZA. SkyRizzy is a prescription-only injection for adults who are candidates for systemic or phototherapy. At four months, most people saw 90 % clearer skin when measured from head to toe, and many were even 100 % plaque-free. People also saw significant improvement in psoriasis symptoms of pain, redness, itching, and burning. Don't use if allergic to SkyRizzy. Serious allergic reactions, increased infections, or lower ability to fight them may occur.

1:03Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms or vaccines. Now there's nothing on my skin, thanks to SkyRizzy. And that means everything. Ask your doctor about SkyRizzy, the number one dermatologist prescribed biologic and psoriasis. Visit SkyRizzy.com or call 1-866-SKY-Rizzy to learn more.

1:26midi knows that just when you thought you had your body all figured out bam perimenopause suddenly your hormones are raging like it's puberty round two you're waking up at 3 a.m and dealing with mood swings that have mood swings your ears are itchy your jeans don't fit you need an industrial size fan to cool down and you've suddenly forgotten the word for microwave. Most women in perimenopause don't know that they are, even though it can last for 10 years. They also don't realize that most of their symptoms are treatable. That's why we built MidiHealth. Midi is a company built by women who've been through it.

2:03Our menopause experts actually listen and treat the real symptoms you're feeling. Your symptoms aren't just common, they're treatable. Schedule a visit with a menopause specialist at Midi. Visit joinmidi.com. Specialist-led care, virtual visits, insurance eligible. Midlife needs midi. Results may vary. Medications prescribed only if clinically appropriate based on a consultation with a clinician. Insurance coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits.

2:38With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hello and welcome to Friday's episode of the podcast.

3:09We are so excited for today's conversation. your go-to gut health specialist, award-winning scientist. No one knows about our tummies better than she does. It's Dr. Megan Rossi. Hey. What an introduction, guys. Thanks for having me. And Dr. Megan Rossi, and you've got, there's another person in the room. There's another human growing inside of me. I know. I've gone crazy and gone for number three. Congratulations. Yeah, congrats. We should say congratulations a bit quicker than that, but we're also quite scared for you because you're going to have three under five. I know, and two dogs. How are you feeling?

3:42you know what i'm someone who's usually very like regimented but i've kind of let this one just like you know what just take each day yeah as it comes and i'm quite lucky with pregnancy so obviously get kind of that first 12 weeks of nausea but you know i can still function um yeah i'm like a lot of mums right like they go through so much and i'm like how could you go back ever again after like you know that ongoing nausea that doesn't stop like that would put me on Yeah, we know lots of people who've had that. I didn't realise how common it was. Yeah, I mean, hats off to anyone who has had that and then goes back and does it again because, wow, that is a lot to deal with.

4:21Princess Catherine did it. She did. She did do it. But nothing for you. You don't feel sick. You're good. I'm good. I'm good, yeah. And I know we should never ask this question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Will you be adding to the brood or are you just done now? That's a very good one. I mean, it depends who you ask. My husband is one of four. So he's like rooting for like the gang. And I was talking to Jamie Oliver and he, and obviously he's got a big family. And I'm like, oh, I just, it's just so fun. And he, you know, he really enjoys it and him and Jules. And I'm just like, kind of want part of that.

4:55But then I'm like, you know, career. Like it just, it is really hard. I think I'd like a big adult family. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Skip the diving. Because I get that. I'm an adult. You know, like when you, you know, I don't know. they're in their 20s and they've done all the hard you know you've done all the hard bit and then you sit around a table and you look at them all and you're like oh they're cool friends but you know you've done it but i don't think i want the child bit of that although christmas day i feel like if you could rent a few extra kids for christmas day it's so fun yeah uh but yeah the realities of like the lunches you know the diaper all the things that come with kids you're just like yeah actually an extra one is a whole lot of yeah i keep trying to persuade george to have another baby just purely for content i just told you to stop saying this and i've even jumped on it too i'm like do it do it like so it's actually recorded it would be so good for business georgia this is trolling like it's hr around all right let's move on just before we get into the questions do you want to just give us a little bit on your background and how you became a gut doctor yeah so certainly back in my early 20s when I was doing my PhD in gut health wasn't sexy I was literally like in the lab with poo samples which I think as parents we all embrace poo now yeah but you know it wasn't a very cool thing um but it was really so I graduated as a dietitian and was working in the hospital setting with all different types of conditions where they had different cancers kidney disease heart disease but I was also really fortunate to be the nutritionist for the Australian Olympic Secretized Swimming Team.

6:31So two very different populations, right? Really sick elite athletes, both of them coming to me complaining of the gut. Like, what is going on? And that was 2010. So hadn't been a whole lot of, you know, gut health research really come to the forefront, right? It was a bit of an unknown sort of area. And I was like, gosh, I was one of those people where I like, would fixate on things. I'm like, I hate not being able to help my patients and clients and give them answers. So that's when I did the PhD. And I was like wow this organ these trillions of bacteria that lives along our nine meter digestive tract like these things are game-changing and at that point I was like obsessed I knew you know I can help improve people's lives in very real but often surprising ways because at that time like you know this whole gut brain axis and gut liver axis and hormone axis was a bit like woohoo yes and I had the science I was like wow I'm even convinced I was a skeptic of that sort of you know type of things I was you know really into the science and yeah so at that point obsessed moved over to the UK to continue research at King's because they were kind of the leaders in the gut health space I'm absolutely obsessed with this topic I grew up with a mum who was so into um sort of the way that the guts and the mind are connected and you know if you're stressed or you're dehydrated your poo change you know we talked a lot about poo in the family and in fact I still get excited now if I do a really great poo yeah like who doesn't right i'm like yes i've nailed it i'm a little look i'm like this is brilliant because i know that i've been eating the right things drinking enough water my stress levels are low and i'm also really fascinated now that i've got kids how i how i obviously because we have to see a lot of poo in the house how their sort of you know diet is linked to their poos and if they're tired all that kind of stuff so we you know we're a big poo family yeah i love that because a lot of brits like i think aussies like we're quite like you know open with our bowel movements right but when i came over here i was like starting to chat to people and they were all like oh don't talk to me about that like that's very private right um and i think obviously social media over the past you know a couple years has really helped people open up because it's actually can be really helpful and even life like life-saving right if you like check again you don't need to be obsessed with your poo but like every two weeks just see if there's anything kind of changing in your habits and stuff like that but yeah i love that your mom was kind of already an advocate before it became like a cool thing we had jillian mckeith didn't we i was just gonna say yeah jillian mckeith was the poo doctor wasn't she it was um you are what you eat and do you remember that program they used to have to poo in the tupperware and then all i could think watching it was going i hope they don't reuse i know same yeah but like the pellet poo you know talk to us about how our poo should look because i think for a lot of people it obviously looks different you know different times of the month as i said with what we eat and drink and stuff but a healthy poo what should that look like yeah a very good question right and I think if we think of babies and kids there's a slightly different but for adults we've got this Bristol stool chart right so it's a scientific chart of seven different types of poops I'm not going to ask you which one you had this morning um but type one fail type one is like a hard Malteser and type seven is like liquid diarrhea right so it's a scale and what we consider as healthy is the type three four or five right um now of course like you know if we have a hot curry or something it might get a little bit on the six you know occasionally or you know you might not be having a lot of hydration or fiber or you might be really stressed and therefore it might be more to like a two really hard yeah but that's kind of generally what we're aiming for and then the other element so that's kind of the consistency of it the other element is the frequency right so how often you go And there's a huge range out there depending on, you know, people have different kind of lengths of their digestive tract, different speeds, hormones impact, how much we eat, all that sort of stuff.

10:22But I guess, again, what we would classify as normal is anywhere from at least three times a week to up to three times a day. Now, if you're having less than three times a week or more than three times a day, then it's really important you go and have a chat to your GP. Three times a day. Yeah. Something to do. Three times a day. You know what I was just going to say is because my son poos I don't know how many times a day. He's nine. And I can't get my head around it. Like, yeah, he thinks it's great. But he's like, oh, yeah, I did a poo at school. And I'm like, whoa, whoa. Okay. But, yeah, I didn't.

10:58I never knew that. And I did actually ask the doctor and they did say the same thing. Yeah, yeah, he's okay, he's okay. But, again, anything beyond that, which, you know, a lot of people, you know, I see in clinic are like, you know, five six and that that's just been their norm forever and they never really thought because it never got spoken about that actually maybe something's wrong when they're malabsorbing food or something else is at play what are the most common issues that you see in your clinic with regards to people's gut health yeah i would say these things called functional gut disorders or it's been renamed very scientific of disorder of the gut brain interaction now that essentially is just this umbrella really scientific term for these different types of conditions like irritable bowel syndrome functional bloating functional constipation and this functional word essentially means that there is nothing organic or nothing else going on at play right so if you go and investigate all the tests come back normal right because there's nothing structurally wrong but the function of how the gut muscles are moving how the the nerves are feeding into the gut are different and therefore people are getting symptoms and that's why the new kind of terminology of this disorder between the gut-brain interaction is because our gut and brain constantly communicating right it's called the gut-brain axis we've all experienced the butterflies that's kind of the first sign but we now have incredible science highlighting there is this two-way communication occurring and that's why like IBS which again a lot of people experience where again there is now these scientific kind of diagnostic criteria so we want to make sure you know you rule out things like celiac disease or inflammatory bowel disease if you're struggling with tummy pain and bloating and stuff and your GP very easily and quickly can do that and it's really important you do that but then if you have them ruled out then the criteria for IBS is having tummy pain at least one day a week and that pain needs to be associated with bowel movements in some sort of way whether it gets better or worse and that needs to have persisted for at least um three to six months so it can't just be like you know a short-term tummy burp so that's like again quite a medical approach to it but I think a lot of people kind of say oh I've just got IBS and it's probably more helpful to actually understand that definition if they meet that criteria um and you know then there's those other ones like functional bloating maybe they don't have the pain but they just constantly bloat yeah I swear to god I've got the laziest bowels in the country.

13:31I'm like, I'm a big runner. And during lockdown, obviously, that was the only thing that we could do because the gyms were closed. So I used to like G myself up for this run. And I used to be like, right, I'm going into the loo. I'm going to, I'm giving my best shot here. And I'd be rocking back and forth, doing the old tricks to try and make my bowels move. Nothing happened. The minute I set off on a run, kilometre in, I'd be like, shit, I'm going to shit myself. Because you hear about that, don't you? People going through a wild poo. A wild poo, every day for four months, I'd poo at the bottom of this person's garden.

13:58I swear to God, the rose bush that's there now is... No, joking, seriously, I did have to do wild poos. Because on the run, it would get me. It was like that motion of me running would make me want to go to the left. Yeah, and for some people, actually, the exercise kind of tightens them back up, right? Right. So there's many different things that can occur. So like when you are going for a run, the blood typically moves away from your gut. And therefore, it feeds your muscles, right? And for a lot of people that can mean that their gut kind of just wants to empty and get everything out and therefore you can get that urgency.

14:33Whereas for other people it might mean they kind of get stuck in their tummy and therefore they might get reflux or heartburn and feel really sluggish. So it just goes to show how different everyone's guts are and how they respond. But the amazing thing is you can train your gut, right? So, you know, if you do really want to do a marathon, but you find that you get, you know, runner's gut or something like that, then it's like just slowly, you know, doing the 5K and watching what you're eating and then building up. And, you know, for the 48 hours beforehand, not having too much fiber kind of stuck in your gut because obviously fiber, you know, one of the backbones of all our plant foods, which is so beneficial.

15:14It's like fertilizer for our gut microbes, right? They love it. But if you've kind of got fiber in your gut, it makes things, you know, take a little bit longer to move through. And therefore, that can create a lot of havoc, you know, if you're going for a really long run. So there are some techniques out there. Not that we're going to go into some exercise related nutrition. Just make sure the neighbors aren't home and you have to dip into their garden. We'll be right back after this short break.

16:07We'll see you next week. People also saw significant improvement in psoriasis symptoms of pain, redness, itching, and burning. Don't use if allergic to SkyRizzy. Serious allergic reactions, increased infections, or lower ability to fight them may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms or vaccines. Now there's nothing on my skin, thanks to SkyRizzy. And that means everything. Ask your doctor about SkyRizzy, the number one dermatologist prescribed biologic and psoriasis. Visit SkyRizzy.com or call 1-866-SKY-Rizzy to learn more.

17:06online. Venmo stash bundle terms and exclusions apply. Max$100 per month. See terms at venmo.me slash stash terms. Venmo checkout not available at all merchants. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. Hi, it's Kat and Nat and this episode is sponsored by Michaels, your destination for all things birthday parties. With seven kids between us, we're always planning a celebration. Summer is no exception. With prices starting at just 99 cents, Michael's Party Shop has over 4 ,500 party supplies across more than 60 themes for every age and every celebration. Whether your kids are into bluey, rodeos, soccer, rainbows, or something totally different, you'll find everything you need in one place.

17:51Plus, you can get a free helium inflation on select balloon styles. Shop online, pick up in-store, or get same-day delivery. Visit Michael's in-store or shop online now.

18:06Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? Should we get into the questions? I've got so many of my own questions to ask. I mean, same. Maybe we can dot our own ones in and pretend they're concerned. For a friend. I get it all the time, guys. Do not worry. I am going to kick off with this one. We were talking about this before. The best way to improve five-year-olds' gut health after years of antibiotics, please. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's really tricky, isn't it? I was reading a stat and I think by the age of two, over half of kids have been on antibiotics, right? Now, to clarify, antibiotics are life-saving.

18:44So I would never, you know, dismiss my husband's NHS GP. Like, you know, he's always the first, like, you know, if you need it, you need it, right? But we do know that antibiotics aren't just killing the bad microbes. They can also kill some of the good ones and cause, you know this imbalance so i think it is really important that we listen you know to whoever's prescribing them and make sure that they really do recommend it's quite important and therefore we go on it yeah and actually there is good scientific evidence to take a specific type of probiotics so it's called lgg so it's a type and we when we talk about types of probiotics they're called strains which is a scientific name so the actual the world you know gut health organization and even like the pediatric guidelines all say during antibiotics that kids should go on that lgg strain of bacteria lgg lgg selectivacillus raminis gg but just lgg in short yeah so have it during your antibiotics to kind of protect your gut and the study showed that compared to those who had that specific lgg bacteria during antibiotics compared to those who had what we call a placebo a fake intervention just to keep it nice and balanced those who had that specific um strain actually had a reduction in antibiotic associated diarrhea by 70 compared to placebo really effective which is why it's in our clinical guidelines right like it's so what i find interesting is my son actually had antibiotics for the first time okay this year he's nine and he was amazing but i mean it is isn't it i know yeah yeah it is really good i mean my daughter's not the same but um and we're in cyprus when he was prescribed them and he was prescribed a probiotic with the antibiotic but i know from you know before like at home that doesn't happen so can you ask for it when like if your kid gets you know some antibiotics can they just can you say to the gp can you also prescribe me a probiotic yeah i mean i wish and i think in the future maybe there will be more preventative health um and because it is in this like the world gastroenterology organization guidelines on probiotics literally says this so it's definitely one of my missions because one of my elements of my phd was in probiotics i'm so passionate about them being used in the right way and like you said a lot of the european countries are already like one step ahead of us so in terms of so i know it was a bit of a detour about that but i think if um the child goes back on antibiotics and think about protecting it during the antibiotics but then after there's no there's like no evidence necessarily to to take a probiotic post antibiotics right you want to do it during to protect the gut and then if you think about what's happened um with the antibiotics they kind of kill off some of those really good ones right and cause this imbalance so you need to think about refertilizing your microbiome and the microbiome again it's just that scientific word for those trillions of microbes.

21:36So, re-fertilizing it is feeding it all different types of fiber. And again, we spoke about fiber before, but I think it's important, because we all hear about fiber, and it's just such a boring word, and people are like, ugh, don't wanna have it. Also, where do you find your fiber? Like, it said to me the other night, my son, how do I get my fiber? Because we've been talking a lot about it. And I was like, yeah, you know, fiber, it's like, you know, like pulses and grains, and you know, porridge. quick siri help you know like it's hard to find the the right food yeah absolutely it's such an important nutrient but you're right like it's not often kind of educated as the why so if we think about our gut right so this nine meter long tube we all have it coiled up in each and every one of us most of our nutrients like our protein and our fats get absorbed very high up our gut right we have the enzymes to break it down it gets from that hollow tube into our blood to feed the rest of our body fiber can't get digested because humans don't have the enzymes to break down that fiber so it's too big and without the bacteria it would just we just poop it straight out right but why we've discovered fiber is so beneficial is because actually the bacteria are the ones that can digest the fiber okay so they break down the fiber in the lower part of that nine meters because they have the enzymes uniquely, unlike the human part of us.

23:00And they produce all these amazing chemicals that help things like our mental health, regulate our hormones, you know, strengthen our gut lining, help our immune system, all that sort of stuff. So that's why fiber is so important. And fiber comes from what I call the super six. Nice little nickname so people remember it. I'm not going to quiz you guys what the super six are, but they're whole grains. So things like your oats, your quinoa, your barley, your legumes, the things like your chickpeas, your butter beans, your fruit, your veggies, your nuts and your seeds and your herbs and your spices.

23:33So one of the key things that I get people to do is literally ride out the Super 6 on their fridge. And at, you know, three o 'clock, think, OK, have I had something from the Super 6 today? if you haven't then think okay how can i sneak one in to dinner tonight you might be having takeaway but literally just get a can of mixed beans and add them to your indian you know curry or it might be oh gosh i hadn't had any nuts let me just got you know a handful of them because each different type of plant contains different fibers and that's why fiber supplements they sound great they just don't have the same health benefits because they might contain three or four different fibers but there's close to 100 different fibers plus all these other beneficial things you get in plants so when we are thinking about re-fertilizing the microbiome the science shows the more different types of plants more different types of fibers means that you are kind of re-fertilizing the different types of bacteria to recreate that balance and again i know a long-winded answer but for that person again go on the lgd strain of bacteria during antibiotics to protect the gut and then post it's about re-fertilizing it with the super six plants and a bit of fermented foods things like live yogurt if they have kefir right kimchi sauerkraut and stuff like that because it contains greek yogurt extra microbes yeah greek's good yes kit eats that top of the class um okay love that um this is interesting because i actually bought this and can you believe it spent shamefully spent like 350 pounds on buying this kit and guess what never did it reliable gut health test i bought it and i think you have to do it within a month or something and i never did it So I'm actually just chucked 350 quid down the drain.

25:15I'm so ashamed. What's wrong with me? That is a lot. Yeah. Too busy to poo in a jar. What? You just need to go for a run. I know. So in our clinical trials at King's, right, when we're trying to investigate things, yes, we do collect the stool samples. We analyze them and look at which different types of microbes there. But we take it, you know, multiple steps further. We don't just look at what microbes are there. We look at things like what chemicals they're producing. now a lot of these commercial microbiome tests sound really good right and they're like then we can personalize your diet all that sort of stuff but the truth is there's still so many different thousands of microbes which we don't know the names of we don't know what they're doing and they're not being picked up on these tests right so short answer is I wouldn't waste your money at the moment I think in 10 years we'll know a lot more but when people come into clinic spent all that money i kind of have to say to them this is interesting but i don't need this to give you my dietary or clinical advice of what we should do for you guys really that's really interesting so what should they do then if they're trying to figure out what's going on with their gut microbiome yeah so one of the key things is doing like a diet and medical history obviously if you're symptom based identifying what those key symptoms are you know do you need to go to the gp get a parasite test because you've been overseas and therefore that could be the cause of the diarrhea or do have one of these functional gut disorders in which case you know we go on medical diets for a short period of time to train your gut um so it is about personalized care but getting these expensive microbiome tests is just sadly not the solution yet wow well it's great i'm so glad we asked you yeah and there's quite a lot of questions here about um the sort of correlation between gut health and eczema um so people have said is there a link to eczema diet advice how to improve my child's got health who suffers with eczema yeah yeah look eczema is so common isn't it and i guess when we look at all the different kind of clinical trials out there there's been some really interesting ones that shows that if you if mum's got a genetic risk of eczema or has you know eczema herself then if she takes a specific type of probiotic can it can reduce bub's risk of eczema by 50 of getting it right so really effective during that very early stages but then when we go to look at the studies where it's more the baby or the kid's got eczema and we're trying to treat it with a specific strain of probiotic it doesn't seem to resolve it so it seems like there is this window of eczema when you know baby's growing in utero the first six months you know if you're able to breastfeed the different environmental factors that may be building the baby's immune system to help kind of prevent it from getting eczema and that's when the probiotics seem to have a specific benefit there um but you know outside of that maybe we haven't found the right strain of bacteria but what i would say is you know one of the key things you want to make sure is there's no allergy at play because you know if baby's got um you know an intolerance or an allergy to dairy for example eczema could be one of the same so always go in and chat to your your doctor or your healthcare professional just to rule those sort of things out and then again i would say there is there doesn't seem to be a solution for a subset really nourishing you know the kids microbiome through the super six some fermented foods has helped improve but i really want to i guess highlight that it's it's probably not going to be a cure yeah um and and again we're learning so much every week about the microbiome things might change we might have more specific therapies in fact there's some really innovative research looking at these skin microbiome transplants have you heard of a fecal macrobiome transplant so again going back to the poo chat it's very exciting stuff guys um so it's been done in in all major hospitals for a very long time it's life-saving so if someone's got a very serious gut infection and they don't respond to antibiotics called c-difficile infection then they can literally get the the poop from a healthy person and put it into someone with this gut infection put the poo inside yeah so it's a poo transplant essentially um wow yeah and it's it can be life-saving so it's got like a cure rate of like over 90 percent in people who aren't responding to antibiotics so it's been done in all the major hospitals right which is not spoken about because people don't want to talk about that as a therapy um so that's now being rolled out and looking at other areas and there's some really promising stuff in the autoimmune condition um ulcerative colitis they're looking to do that as well but why i said that so that's a stool that's got more evidence behind it but the skin microbiome again we don't just have the bacteria in our gut we've got trillions there but we also have billions on our skin that act as this second kind of protector layer and we know that um people with eczema also have a disrupted skin microbiome so there's some clinical trials looking at whether they get the healthy skin microbiome um from someone and transplant on someone with eczema And there's some preliminary data that suggests that that actually could be a future therapy.

30:22Pterisies as well? All the skin conditions? Well, the studies so far, I think, has just looked at eczema. But you're right. A lot of mechanisms are all inflammatory in nature. They involve the microbiome to some extent. So probably likely. There is a direct link between gut health and eczema, isn't there? There is. Yeah, yeah. Because we know that our microbes and our skin microbes are constantly, you know, they're constantly communicating. So there is a link there. but it's kind of like is it causal and that's I think the important thing of like you know we look at these whole population you know of people and we see people with depression have different microbes to those who don't have depression or even eczema right different microbes to those who don't have it but that's that's a link that's an association but you don't know well actually is it because if they've got eczema they might be less likely to go outdoors and mix with the microbes or actually it's a causal and you to do causal research you need to look at the interventions where we take people with eczema half of them get one intervention the other half get another intervention and see whether one group works or not and that's kind of where eczema is at the moment in terms of understanding and we're trying to look at therapies but it seems like it's very complex where not everyone's going to respond to every therapy so my son had eczema and the second that he came off of cow's milk and switched it completely went but that wouldn't be the case for everyone I guess absolutely because that's because it was allergy related as the cause of that eczema right whereas other people's it's not necessarily there's other things at play so that's why it's quite a tricky one to get to the root cause per se but I think the microbiome both in the gut and on the skin is opening up new ideas and new therapies but yeah so what I say for generally anyone who's struggling with it, try really focus for at least two months on nourishing your microbiome with those super sex and just see whether it has helped the severity of your eczema or not.

32:23Okay. We'll be right back after this short break.

32:31As a fitness coach, my active psoriatic arthritis can slow me down. With Sky Rizzy, Rizzen Kizumab RZA, I'm treating my skin and joint symptoms so I can keep moving. SkyRizzy, a prescription-only injection for adults, helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. And for those who have plaque psoriasis, 90 % clearer skin is possible. With SkyRizzy, there's no daily dosing. It's just four doses a year after two starter doses. Don't use if allergic to SkyRizzy. Serious allergic reactions, increased infections, or lower ability to fight them may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis.

33:07Tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms or vaccines. Thanks to Sky Rizzy, there's nothing like clearer skin and better movement. And that means everything.

33:19Ask your doctor about Sky Rizzy. Visit SkyRizzy.com or call 1-866-SKY-RIZZY to learn more.

33:30Hannah, I just Venmo'd you for dinner. Obsessed. I'm spending it right now on the lip gloss that's been sitting in my cart. What do you mean spending it right now? You can instantly spend your balance with the Venmo debit card or when you pay with Venmo at checkout. Stop. Say more. More exactly. The more you do with Venmo, the more you get. Like earning up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash. Get the Venmo debit card or checkout online. Venmo Stash bundle terms and exclusions apply. Max$100 per month. See terms at venmo.me slash stash terms. Venmo checkout not available at all merchants. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A.

34:08Hi, it's Kat and Nat, and this episode is sponsored by Michael's, your destination for all things birthday parties. With seven kids between us, we're always planning a celebration. Summer is no exception. With prices starting at just 99 cents, Michael's Party Shop has over 4 ,500 party supplies across more than 60 themes for every age and every celebration. Whether your kids are into bluey, rodeos, soccer, rainbows, or something totally different, you'll find everything you need in one place. Plus, you can get a free helium inflation on select balloon styles. Shop online, pick up in-store or get same-day delivery.

34:44Visit Michael's in-store or shop online now.

34:51Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? The best probiotics for kids. Can you talk about some brands that you love, things that we should be doing alongside the Super 6? Yeah, absolutely. So I think when it comes to probiotics, it's really important to highlight that there is never been a scientific study proving that any type of probiotic remember they're all called we call them strains all the different types actually can help with general gut health right where we can there's never been a study to prove that so so probiotics are very specific yet you go into the store it's like you have your daily probiotic if you want good gut health yeah all marketing which literally does my head in i'm like that's so unfair that they're making people think you have to buy these bacteria right but that's not to say probiotics don't have a role as we've mentioned before but like we highlighted for general gut health what all the scientific studies suggest is have that plant diversity have the super six and some fermented foods is the best way right but as i alluded to in and from my phd what we really discovered is that different probiotic strains are doing different things so So the way I describe it is, you know, if you have iron deficiency, I would never go and give you a vitamin D supplement for your iron deficiency.

36:07They're different things. That's the way we need to treat probiotics is very specific. So if anyone ever says to you, oh, just take a probiotic, you're like, you need to know which one because they're all doing different things. And that's why I developed SmartStrain. So it's a group of clinically proven live bacteria, just indication specific, right? because we know for example the antibiotics right there is really good scientific evidence clinical guidelines all say we should have that lgg strain during antibiotics so that's one of the cues um then also for parents crazy because my i don't think my kids ever met the strict criteria for colic as a diagnosis which is at least you know generally speaking at least three hours of crying a day for at least three days a week and it had to persist for at least three weeks so 333 um but there's all the you know different levels of it right so i was looking into the research when i was like a desperate mom going what am i doing um and saw that actually the leading pediatric association guidelines so you know baby um recommendations say if a baby's got colic they should take this specific strain bb12 and the clinical trial shows that it reduces crying and fussing by 50 % in nearly three times more babies who had that specific BB12 compared to placebo.

37:31So really strong like efficacy and effectiveness. That formulation never existed on the market. Just why they're being like these, you know, not just me, these authorities saying that, right? So I was like, I couldn't buy it. I was like, can I call a manufacturer and be like, how do I do this? So that's why, again, that was one of the other skews for fussy babies with smart strains because it didn't exist yet there is all these other probiotics on the market and I contacted these companies I was like look at the guidelines right can you change your formulation give the right strain so we can match the efficacy and they were like we get what you're saying but it's just it's too expensive it's going to take too much time and we've marketed in this way I'm like I feel this is quite fraudulent I spent a couple years trying to do that and no one listened to me um so if you can't buy it megan's made her own yes yeah just make it what's like you can do it yourself is what my mom used to say so so you really need to figure out in answer to that question here that was sent him um well we had loads of them actually um it's it's about figuring out exactly what you need the probiotic to do yeah in your child it's why you need to take it it's why you need to yeah so i took probiotics for the first time i just had to take uh antibiotics for something and i had to take it for a week and they're really strong and i thought you know i'm going to really give it a good shot and take a probiotic religiously and it's the first time ever that I haven't developed um thrush taking um taking because I don't like taking them very but every time I've taken a plastic I've got it and this is the first time I didn't get it yeah yeah so again really good evidence for so there's four areas right where I would say hand on heart that you know I would recommend taking specific strains of of um probiotics right so one is colic one is antibiotics lgg one is actually cold and flu again so yeah yeah so if you have cold cold prevention of cold and flu yeah yeah so the clinical trials i think it was for three months um half of them got the specific strains lgg and bb12 combined the other half got placebo that fake intervention um and this first day that i'm referencing was actually in infants right from two months old they had it daily and those who had the specific strains had a 50 % reduction in a repeat of respiratory tract infections like cold and flu fascinating so that's something that everyone should take them right because during periods of yeah so I think you know when kids are going to nursery yeah yeah like start back to school September to whatever February yeah exactly and adults again there was another study using exact same LGGb12 combined so it works in children and adults reduce duration of cold and flu by by two days so again so immunity is one and i wouldn't say you need to still like an adult i wouldn't necessarily say you need to take the immunity bb12 and lgd all year round right it's like if you are really stressed or you're like oh god i gotta travel and then obviously during winter um i think that's the thing is we don't i don't want people to be stuck on things they don't need to be yeah sure um the other one though is bacterial vaginosis and thrush right so so common 75 percent of women are going to get experienced thrush at least once and someone here has said please can you explain the link between gut health and adult acne fascinating yeah so this is a really um hot topic and i think it's highly important to highlight uh yes our skin microbiome is playing an active role in acne but it's very genetic right so acne yeah very much genetic of course if you have a really kind of junk food ultra processed food diet don't nourish your gut microbiome that's going to probably send negative you know signals to your skin microbiome and they can be more aggressive and create more inflammation but what I would say is even if you've got the perfect gut boosting diet then you can still have acne because it's so genetic and we see that with all the clinical trials where people even if they've got a really you know amazing diet they can still get acne so what I would say is if you're struggling with adult acne yes try nourish your your gut health because that might improve acne by 20 percent yeah it's just not going to cure it exactly yeah yeah so it can help it by 20 percent or so stress is another one because we know that cortisol can also really cause imbalances in our skin microbiome.

41:59And then there is just that frustrating genetic element to it. So worse foods for acne. So worse foods. So again, we're thinking a lot of these ultra processed foods and there's been studies that, you know, having a really high added sugar diet. But that doesn't mean you can't have chocolate, right? In fact, being so religiously strict on your diet couldn't create more stress and therefore worsen your acne so think about adding the super six in you can have some treats on the side you know i love white chocolate's one of my favorite foods yet that's super selfish got no fiber in it right it just feeds my taste buds i do that i have a handful of almonds so my microbes get fed and my taste buds get fed great tip what are the worst foods for your gut in general for kids for adults yeah so historically i would have said it's very much that these ultra processed foods are not directly harming your microbes because they get absorbed very high up but indirectly they starve your microbes because they don't contain all those fibers and the other plants so if you're filling up on ultra processed foods you're not nourishing them they get hangry start to eat away gut lining and then cause inflammation there right so that's what i historically would have said but our team at king's have literally just about to publish a world first clinical trial looking at food additive emulsifiers.

43:22Now, emulsifiers are found in thousands of the foods that we eat. And I'm sure we've all probably had a couple of emulsifiers, at least on the weekend. Look, I can't confirm or deny that. Typically, they're the E400 category, but also there's a few others around the thousands, stuff like that. But essentially what we did is took people with Crohn's disease. It's autoimmune condition. So they have a genetic predisposition to gut inflammation, right? So we know that there's medications that can be really effective for Crohn's, but it's just, you know, we can't cure Crohn's. So again, I don't want to fear monger around emulsifiers because they're found in thousands of foods.

44:05We've all probably had some already today in our diet. but I think it's worth highlighting how many of these you know food additives and emulsifiers we're having how much of our diet comes from ultra processed foods and like if you look at two different brands of wraps right people will think wraps are healthy yet some of the brands of wraps have got like three different emulsifiers in them with like 14 ingredients other wraps have got three ingredients I think it can be somewhat helpful I think again there's a little bit of fear-mongering of being like oh well this additives in in like makeup and therefore it's toxic and that's not yeah so i think the areas where we're kind of investigating or most of the science is looking at emulsifiers probably don't want to have too many but again there are a lot of foods and there might be some which are more kind of potentially you know inflammatory creating than others but let's just watch the percentage we're having and then um i think definitely uh sugar-free non-sugar sweeteners so things like aspartame and sucralose and even there's some research on stevia as well so i think we need to be careful particularly in kids products because this whole anti-sugar thing a lot of the manufacturers are like ditching the sugar and just adding all these artificial sweetness in and the world health organization literally have come out saying we should not be doing that we can't have our cake and eat it too with these things what is the biggest myth around the gut and stress the gut and stress I think um I don't know if it's a myth but maybe a lot of people don't realize it can be bi-directional right so we know I think everyone knows you're stressed up here you can literally strangle your gut there's hundreds of millions of nerves that connect the two and therefore no matter what you wheat it can cause gut upset right but equally there's now studies highlighting that if you've got an imbalance in your gut microbiome really not nourishing it correctly you know having too many proseccos and you know not enough of those super six actually that may make us more vulnerable to stress and in and even depression wow yeah really so what you eat can affect your mental health like direct link really really strong in in depression right and i think there's even a study looking at um teenagers and highlighting that if they put people kids who or teenagers who had um depression on a gut boosting diet which is the super six very mediterranean oily fish fermented dairy they had a significant improvement in their mental health after i think it was a three-week clinical trial compared to those who just got a control um you know you know eat healthier sort of recommendation so it can be so powerful and that's why i want parents to really i guess not feel you know guilt because it's so hard to you know feed feed kids and get them especially school lunch all that sort of stuff but i think we've got the science now to know that it can be really effective for not just the growth but things like our kids mental health which you know one of four of us are likely to have a mental health event each and every year right everyone needs to be aware of it and look where you see teenagers hanging out yeah yeah what next to the vape shop outside fast food places and like all of that kind of stuff that's where they hang out isn't it yeah i know and you know again i don't want i think parents need to understand the kids don't need to have a perfect diet right so there's going to be those sorts of things but it is if you can get them on earlier kind of the tribe of you've got this little pet inside you you've got to feed it even if you don't like your broccoli it'll make your pet happy and look after you or if you're a teenage where they're like i don't care about my little pet be like well if you want to you know get the best score at maths or you know be the fastest swim whatever their goal is be the best dancer then actually those athletes have got a really good gut microbiome which actually help and there is clinical trials again showing that athletes have certain types of gut bacteria that help make them run faster and that sort of thing so these microbes are doing all that sort of stuff i couldn't believe so it can help you achieve whatever your goal you've got so if you kind of see that into your kids mentality then they might be like you know what i might have the those golden arches a little bit but you know what i'm gonna you know have a carrot stick do you know what it's so interesting because i've had really bad problems with my gut the last month suspected stomach ulcer at the moment i have to have an endoscopy next week and i've never felt lower than i have done in the last month like fatigue extremely fatigued can't kind of like jump out of this sort of funk that i'm in i feel extremely be tired I've slept sleeping like nine hours a night um and I feel very stressed and it's all I know my gut is really upset with me and I can't I hopefully will be able to get to the bottom of it and I do feel like I'm healing it but the mental health thing has just hit a nerve with me because I don't seem to be able to like pick myself up and be shiny and happy all the time and it's definitely tummy related 100 we have to like really listen to that and it does feel like it does feel exactly what you just said yeah and it's so important to get the investigations right So many people I see have been suffering for 10, 20 years because they've just been told, or it's just IBS or just a bit of reflux.

49:13We know H. pylori infections, stomach infections, are really common. Is that what you... They might think it might be that. Yeah, yeah. But that's a month-long antibiotics though, isn't it? If it is that. Again, take the probiotics alongside it, protect the rest of your gut, and then think about refertilizing it. But that's what you need to do to get rid of the H.P.I.L.R. infection. Can I call you? Yes, absolutely. Got a private number. I'll be dishing it out for a fee. Thank you. Megan, thank you so much for coming on. What a beautiful conversation. I feel like we need Megan to come in all the time.

49:43Me too. I feel like we have so much support to ask. I've got a whole segment, right? Let's do it. Yay, good. Amazing. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

50:01I love days like these at the pool, but my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis can sometimes take me out of the moment. I'm ready to make a splash with clearer skin thanks to SkyRizzy, Rizinkizumab RZA. SkyRizzy is a prescription-only injection for adults who are candidates for systemic or phototherapy. At four months, most people saw 90 % clearer skin when measured from head to toe, and many were even 100 % plaque-free. People also saw significant improvement in psoriasis symptoms of pain, redness, itching, and burning. Don't use if allergic to SkyRizzy. Serious allergic reactions, increased infections, or lower ability to fight them may occur.

50:37Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms or vaccines. Now there's nothing on my skin, thanks to SkyRizzy. And that means everything. Ask your doctor about SkyRizzy, the number one dermatologist prescribed biologic and psoriasis. Visit SkyRizzy.com or call 1-866-SKYRizzy to learn more.

51:00Hi, it's Kat and Nat, and this episode is sponsored by Michael's, your destination for all things birthday parties. With seven kids between us, we're always planning a celebration. Summer is no exception. With prices starting at just 99 cents, Michael's Party Shop has over 4 ,500 party supplies across more than 60 themes for every age and every celebration. Whether your kids are into bluey, rodeos, soccer, rainbows, or something totally different, you'll find everything you need in one place. Plus, you can get a free helium inflation on select balloon styles. Shop online, pick up in-store, or get same-day delivery.

51:35Visit Michael's in-store or shop online now. Hannah, I just Venmo'd you for dinner. Obsessed. I'm spending it right now on the lip gloss that's been sitting in my cart. What do you mean spending it right now? You can instantly spend your balance with the Venmo debit card, or when you pay with Venmo at checkout. Stop. Say more. More exactly. The more you do with Venmo, the more you get. Like earning up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash. Get the Venmo debit card or checkout online. Venmo Stash bundle terms and exclusions apply. Max$100 per month. See terms at venmo.me slash stash terms. Venmo checkout not available at all merchants.

52:13The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A.