Emily Rose Brewster

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0:42Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot.

0:55Georgia Dayton: We really have. Each week, we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts, and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it?

1:23well is it sunny is it rainy is it gonna hail is it what the hell is going on with the weather

1:31Georgia Dayton: i know don't i was packing for axel to go off and he's residential and i feel like he's got every you know weather covered plus a silk pillow case of course he has for his hair and face How are you George? I'm alright, I'm good I was saying before That I dropped Axel off And he's gone off for five days I don't feel at all sad Not one bit Why don't you just be a bit more honest on this podcast It's really annoying that you show up in this really Inauthentic place I could come on here and be like I'm not going to miss him You might miss him by day three Maybe, we'll see, but there were mums Like, I've got to hold back the tears to like get in the car and I was just looking at them and I was like I just I just don't feel like that I just don't feel the same so I'm gonna be the mom I'm gonna be the mom that completely lost it when I packed Luna off and did you yeah I'm sitting in the other camp she started crying and I thought oh my god I kept thinking about all the podcasts that we've done with experts being like put on a brave face yeah it's not about you and I was like I miss you so much she was like I can't do it without you and i was like i don't do it without you i mean god jesus christ every single expert wagging their finger at me go that is not the way to do it but i i missed my little soulmate i did miss her it was very quite it's very easy just with one child though yeah i know i'm really looking forward to it i can't wait she'll get the full only child treatment this week haribots for breakfast yeah whatever she's not even that fussed about dinner so i'm just you know i'm more juicy i really am no but i do think if he'd have been upset that might be different yeah i'm not that cold-hearted um well maybe it's okay also not to miss your kids for a while yeah just normalize that you know i think we needed this okay if i'm honest i think we needed this space from each other he's still driving me mad so it's probably come at a good time any more any more demands to prepare a beef there's always there's always demands there really is like i i don't even know where to start without making him sound like a complete dick hands down one of my favorite things that you've ever said on the podcast and actually thank you to the to the people that listen to this podcast because they loved it as well yeah just prepare a beef roast for me mama do you want anything yes just please prepare this god no beef roast this week no no yeah exactly how are you yeah i'm good i'm good i have just got back from training i had a really nice chilled weekend um genuinely not much to report my end george apart from just being in quite a nice kind of peaceful place.

4:08I'm actually cranking up for Ibiza because I leave on Wednesday. Oh, Thursday, Thursday. My best mate, Ali, who is literally the love of my life, outside of yourself, her daughter's getting married. Does that make you feel old? Fucking really old. But it's going to be really fun. So there's a dinner on the Thursday. I'm staying at The Hyde, which is a new hotel. It looks really cool. Then we're having a chilled night on the Friday. where basically all of my mates have said we've got to be on lockdown in our rooms because if we see each other, we'll get too excited and we'll do too many shots of tequila and then we'll mess up the wedding.

4:44So dinner on the Thursday, wedding on the Saturday, and then it's bank holiday Sunday. There's like a day party, but I'm leaving around seven. So it'll be really nice.

4:51Georgia Dayton: Oh my God, it'll be so nice. I can't wait. And the weather looks great. 25 degrees. Come on. I know. You need it. You need it off your last trip when it was raining. That wasn't fair. It's my time now, guys. It's your time. it is dust the bikini off oh my god yes i'm gonna get a spray tan as well this week from secret spa but i'm not going extra dark do you remember i went extra dark and it was like oh my god i look like a sort of brass radiator did you oh see i love the extra dark i have to when my spray tan lady comes around shout out to gina tans um she's always like hmm how we got like are we going dark in terms of Essex dark or are we going like I'm like oh no come on really dark and she always has to be like no Georgia don't like not not for now not this weekend you need to tame it tame it in you look like the love child of David Dickinson yeah like Dale Winton yeah I think you can take it though I think you should go extra dark I just I don't want to look like my wardrobe I'm looking at them now they're very deep mahogany so I just yeah maybe dark isn't Because you know what?

5:55I've got quite a bright dress for the wedding. Oh, yeah, no. Yeah. Okay, fine. All right, good. Done. Let's get into today's conversation because we've never obviously spoken to this guest before. I say obviously, we obviously have repeat guests, but today's guest was the first conversation, first time we've met her. Georgia and I both love following her on Instagram because she brings such a humour to her parenting. Very relatable, very honest. I was really impressed by the way that she spoke about aspects of parenting. And I was also really in awe of her bravery around how bad it got for her in a couple of those moments.

6:29Because you don't often hear mothers saying, I had to remove myself from the house and go and sit in the woods. And I didn't know if I wanted to go back inside.

6:36Georgia Dayton: Yeah, no, totally. And I think because of the way she shows up on social media, you might feel like she's just, you know, all jokey and laughs and all that kind of stuff. But I feel like we got the other side of her, the serious side, what's actually going on. And she did say like she uses humor to, you know, sort of help her through these times. And it does like it does make you remember how bad sleep deprivation is. It's a real thing. And if you're listening to this and you're still going through it, then you are. I think you're going to love this chat. Yeah, it's going to be amazing. Let us know, obviously.

7:11Stick around for this conversation. Georgia, who are we talking to? We're chatting to Emily Rose Brewster. Today, we are joined by a hilarious content creator who's trying to find the funny in motherhood with her brilliant TikTok and Instagram videos. She is honest, she's real, and we think you're going to love her as much as we do. It's her very first podcast. It's Emily Brewster. First podcast. Thank you so much for having me on. Well, I hope so. We'll see how today goes.

7:40Georgia Dayton: So we always like to warm our guests up by finding out how your morning's been. You've already said you didn't have very much sleep. No. Talk to us. I'm running on five hours sleep um and red bull is fueling me right now no I do to wake up every two hours and then my train was cancelled and yeah but it doesn't matter I'm here that's the main thing you look gorgeous Emily's wearing the most beautiful suede like camel suede like suede she said you said it's your personality trait it is yeah it's glued to me at all times you just wear it all the time yeah it's my go-to how is life with the toddler because me and George are very much out of it Not in a smug way, but we're very much out of it.

8:20Shall I just be totally real? Yeah. At the moment, it's a shit show. Yeah. My daughter's never slept for the last two and a half years, and I'm not exaggerating. She might have slept through once in her life. Shit. She's great. Love her. She's a little character, as everyone tells me. But yeah, just the lack of sleep. It's exhausting, as you all probably know. And yeah, you just do hit a breaking point a lot. But then there's fun times and they're, you know, they get their own little personalities and they give you a bit more back. So peaks and troughs.

8:55Georgia Dayton: I think when you're at the toddler stage and they're not sleeping, I think the newborn stage, everyone's sort of in the same boat. Yeah. So you're chatting about it. You feel like, you know, everyone around you. But then you hit like six months and lots of kids start sleeping through. And then you think, oh, how is it? Because I can't imagine two and a half years in. It's like we laugh about it. but actually it's no joke is it yeah no and and I and that's the thing with my page the whole reason I started it was to make other mums feel less alone in their experiences because to me I've got such a lovely community of mums who you might feel like you're the only mum that isn't getting enough sleep or your toddler's the only one that doesn't eat or acts up but actually there are so many other mums out there and parents as well I've got some dads as well um but yeah it is really tough and I've really struggled mentally in particularly the last six months and I've hit breaking point and you know had really dark thoughts but you just carry on don't you and invest in some good concealer yeah exactly get some good corrector yeah yeah but yeah it's um it's for me I can't change you know how much my daughter sleeps or how much well I've been trying I'm on my third sleep coach now um but yeah and the tantrums you know you just can't control it sometimes can you so the only thing I can control is putting you know my experiences out there so other mums feel less alone yeah and also it's something like my friends comment on it a lot this is not me sounding really big-headed but they go you always look so well put together and you know you look glowing and I might not today so sorry about that but to me that's the one thing I can control yeah I feel like if you feel good if you look good you feel good yeah Farron Clark thing that she says but um yeah the things I can control then I try to do you know what the sleep deprivation is is something that people don't really talk about before you go into it and actually it's really interesting because I think a lot of people at the beginning you know when baby sleeping up to kind of 20 hours a day you're supposed to like having a puppy you're kind of like oh I can do this this is great but it's the cumulative tiredness yeah it's the one year in two years in three years in I mean Luna didn't sleep till she didn't sleep past 4 30 till she was six and a half seven years I mean do you remember it's just yeah I do wake up wake up and it's just utterly exhausting and like you said that's when the dark intrusive thoughts start coming in and you can quickly spiral yeah oh absolutely and I have many a times and I try and remind myself and this is kind of the parenting advice I try to live by and it's they're not trying to give you a difficult time they are having a difficult time and I have to remind myself that at four o 'clock in the morning when I'm really desperate for sleep because I know she's not doing it on purpose and she's not she doesn't mean it although at times it feels like she's trying to destroy my life um but but smiling at you yeah and then in the morning wakes up and has so much energy I'm just like what what are you on and I don't drink tea or coffee so you've got to sort that out yeah I know um so yeah it is hard and I think we'll get through it it's a phase and I keep telling myself that but yeah it is really hard.

12:18Talk to us about your kind of journey to kind of starting your content creation because you've spoken online about how you had a pretty horrific experience with your work. Yeah. Whilst you're on maternity leave. Just fill us in on that. Yeah. So I, so I used to be a presenter, producer kind of in social media. Got to do some fun red carpets and stuff, which is where I might have seen you before. But yeah, so I kind of worked in the industry before I started my TikTok account I didn't even have an Instagram at the time um probably three years ago now and I just that TikTok was the place I went to it was my like my Google it was my search engine how do I breastfeed what things do I need what's the newborn essentials and that was my go-to place because it just gives you that visual you know understanding of it all so I thought if everyone else is doing it why don't I have a slice of the pie share it that's it yeah something like that the phone um so yeah I just started sharing my content and people seem to really relate to it and you know I don't take things too seriously as I'm sure you'll tell and from there it just went on so I was just kind of doing it casually and then I would say it was a few months after I came back from maternity leave and I got made redundant essentially um and I didn't realize how common that was.

13:39After I shared that, I had so many mums messaging me saying, this exact thing has happened to me. And everyone said to me, take it, go legal, go legal. And I just thought, I started that process. And then I thought, actually, I don't have the energy to put into that. I'd rather put my energy into something positive. So yeah, then it's kind of snowballed from there. And here I am doing it full time.

14:02Georgia Dayton: How did it feel when you made redundant? Because I think there's a lot of noise around going back to work how you feel going back to work leaving your baby all of that stuff but actually you're right so many people do get made redundant just as they come back because it's illegal to be made redundant on maternity leave so often you put all of your child care in place and everything and then it happens yeah how did it feel um to have that happen yeah I mean I was fortunate enough to have about a year off with my daughter So it wasn't, you know, some mums go back at three months, six months. So I'd had that time and I felt very ready to go back to work.

14:37And I, you know, I take pride in my work and I always wanted to put my best foot forward. So it just felt like a punch in the gut. There was me and one other guy on the team and he didn't get made redundant. He wasn't even put through that process. so again I kind of thought that's interesting um but you know I think it was what's my saying rejection is redirection and I totally believe that because if it didn't happen I wouldn't be here and I wouldn't spend all this time with my daughter so at the time it felt like a punch in the gut but to be honest I wanted to leave that job anyway I wasn't happy so I got a little pay out and said goodbye did you yeah and this is kind of my way you know getting to where I am now and don't get me wrong I've got a long way to go and lots of things I want to achieve but I'm really proud of myself for where I've come in the last year and that's kind of shown them your loss but for other mums you know they're not in a position they've got to get another job straight away and it's not fair it's it's the flexible working that a lot of companies don't you know adhere to although they pretend to be they put their values out yes exactly we're a family well yeah that's such a red flag to me it was very much like that so yeah I think yeah what's meant to be will be yeah I mean that that kind of whole flexible working thing Georgia and I obviously started MBM careers off the back of you know being in this world of parenting for the last however many feels like a billion years yeah 10 years nearly and so that's why we wanted to do that but it's very interesting when you start opening up the conversation around flexible working with employers yeah to them that you can sort of see them like recoiling yeah you know oh they think well that's part-time no it's not part-time it's an element of flexibility to the role because like you said you know it's so difficult isn't it when you become a mother to then be able to be present but also work full-time as well how are we supposed to do it we're expected to work like you're not a mum and be a mum like you don't work yeah and I I always said I don't want to be a stay-at-home mum because it just felt like too much I didn't want being a mum to be my whole personality although that is totally what my whole page is about now that's all I talk about but um I didn't want that to be my only thing I have always been very driven and you know career focused and I put everything into my role and I always have but yeah I think it's really hard to balance and you can't have it all at once when anyone says that I just my personal opinion is you can't have it all at once something has to give in some element of your life right whether it's work your relationship your your children and I think the more you give yourself a little bit of grace it gets slightly easier yeah for a bit of time and what about um your identity and how you saw

17:31Georgia Dayton: yourself so you obviously said you never wanted to be a stay-at-home mom you wanted to go back to work you go back to work you're made redundant what did that do to to like your sense of I guess self-worth as well yeah and my purpose yeah I really felt like I lacked purpose um and I always wanted I always wanted kids I always wanted two kids and that was you know I had a very kind of solid idea of what I wanted to happen in my life and I wanted to be a presenter on the TV and that's what I wanted to achieve that hasn't quite happened yet um but yeah I think when I had my daughter I felt really bad for having feelings of kind of grieving my old life and my old identity and I'd done all the things I'd done traveling I'd done the partying a lot um I'd done the festivals but yeah I did struggle to adapt to that you know I thought my daughter would work around my life and you slowly realize that's very hard I admire anyone that you know can really live by that but you do have to adapt um and yeah I felt like I lost my identity for a long time I feel like I'm slowly getting it back but yeah do you call it a grief yeah I think I did grief my old life for sure um not in the set it's just the freedom you can do what you want you don't have to think about anyone else or responsibilities or I'm a nightmare to be honest with you I'm type b I turn up everywhere late although I've done very well today

19:09but then I'm responsible for another chart like another human being yeah somehow I've managed to keep her alive so far but yeah I think it's it's a big change um and that's why I'm so adamant about sometimes I feel like I'm really negative talking about motherhood and you know I just don't want to talk about it like it's all sunshine and rainbows because as much as I don't want to put anyone off I want to be realistic about it because it's not an easy ride and I think the more you talk about it then it just shares the load a little bit you can't really win though can you no Emily like you can't really win if you're out there saying oh it's perfect yeah everything is It's amazing.

19:50You're going to get the warriors that come back to you and say, well, actually, you're not saying the full picture here. Or if you sit there and say, actually, it's shit. I haven't slept for two and a half years. You're like, well, come on a minute. You've got your baby. So you wanted to be a mum. It's very difficult to be a mother in 26, I think. Oh, God. Everyone has an opinion. And it's normally those 50-year-old men that, you know, probably live in their mum's basement still. And they're like, well, you chose it. Motherhood's not really hard. Stay-at-home mum's just sitting and watching TV all day.

20:20I wish I finished a Netflix series yeah it's um but that there are positives and you know I feel like I I obviously don't talk about them enough but that's a given of course I love my daughter yeah of course of course she's great and you know I wouldn't change it for the world most of the time um but yeah I think it's important to talk about both we'll be right back after this

20:45Georgia Dayton: short break

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21:27welcome back to this episode of made by mamas now where were we what do you think the hardest

21:31Georgia Dayton: bit has been because i think loads of us talk about newborns and we're kind of all a bit prepared for that now i'd say yeah but where do you where do you think the hardest bit has been when do you think the toddler tantrums wow testing twos wow on the podcast do you testing twos I've heard you um yeah that's probably a nice way to put it yeah um yeah terrible twos yeah I think just the the big emotions and having to stay really level-headed when all I just want to do is say just like leave me alone um and you and again it's talking about like motherhood in today's society has to be gentle parenting gentle hands and don't get me wrong my daughter is not that feral she's pretty calm but she is so needy you know she has to be with me all the time that's part of the issue with her sleep she wants to be with me all the time but yeah it's what's the right I think yeah the pressure of doing the right thing all the time and I don't know what the right thing is no one does do you can't do yeah you can't do wrong for right but that's where I suppose social media can it has its dark side well there's pros and cons like there's people like you who are there saying you know some days are good some days are bad and then there you've got other like accounts where it's like oh you mustn't raise your voice and this is the only way and the whole gen I mean I don't know if you've seen or either of you the whole there's I think it was a teacher has come on to talk about gentle parenting and the effect it's having on when kids start school um and actually in um my daughter's school they had a workshop recently and it was about anxiety and we thought we were going along we were going to be like oh you know like this is going to be horrific but actually they were basically saying that all this gentle parenting is causing us to have like the kids to go into school and they can't be told no and they freak out and they're having to deal with so much and they're and like they're looking at gentle parenting because it's not like one size fits all like some kids aren't probably really do do really well on gentle parenting and I'm sure there are a lot of kids that don't as well um and I think yeah I keep reading so much and seeing so much about the kind of backlash against it which is quite interesting yeah I think to be fair there's I think some of it is gone to the extreme right and it's not actual there's a there's a woman called Kelly who talks about gentle parenting a lot online and she tries to educate people on what actually is gentle parenting because a lot of it is what they call permissive parenting yes which is basically me I'm a pushover I let her get away with anything which cause quite a lot of issues but um yeah I think people take it to the extreme don't they um but it's hard you just yeah you can't do yeah anything right yeah and also I think people forget I don't know if you agree with this but up until the point where we had children how many people used to come and scream in our face pull stuff off the shelves physically physically hurt you and then you're supposed to be able to handle that in a very level-headed way which is why I love your account because I feel like you do it with humor which kind of is the way that we should all be dealing with it I genuinely think that we should be able to like that there should be coaching available on the NHS to to put us because sometimes it feels like fight or flight right yeah as a as a parent forget about what the kid's going through for a second as us as parents can we just prioritize ourselves like that first tantrum where you're like what has just happened yeah how are people how are we supposed to cope with it yeah and I think it's also the generational thing like our parents were obviously very different with us don't get me wrong I you know there are some extremes my parents weren't like that in terms of being really strict or, you know, God forbid, physical or anything like that.

25:34But I think it's just really hard to navigate what the right thing is to do and what will actually work. And that's the thing. I don't care what it's called. I just want it to work. Like if speaking to her nicely and regulating myself first is going to work, I'll do it. it yeah I'll say gentle hands until I'm blue in the face if that works yeah but I just it's my daughter is such a drama queen I don't know where she gets it from quite frankly but yeah she goes from naught to 100 and at times you just can't do anything I just have to sit there like and I did and when I hit real breaking point where I ended up like walking around a forest on my own at god knows what hour in the morning because I just had to get out I had to escape and she was crying her head off my husband was there but I I just had enough and I called my mum and I was like I can't do this anymore I just want to get in the car drive away never come back again yeah that's really brave to admit that yeah and and I've told myself I'm not going to cry today but yeah it was

26:40Georgia Dayton: um a lot yeah yeah talk to us a little bit more about that and how like you know your husband sort of helped you through it or how your relationship was when when you were going through that I mean he my husband is so laid back he's literally horizontal so for him I think being in a house with two very dramatic girls is a lot and he doesn't know what to say all the time and I think men obviously struggle with that because they don't have the hormones they don't understand and he'll say to me, he tries to help bless him. He'll say, you know, what's wrong? I don't know. And I think I had, had, have, don't know, PMDD, which is another thing, which is very misunderstood, premenstrual dysphoric disorder, which I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's, it's like, yeah, your PMS on steroids.

27:32So you, you don't really have a lot of control over your emotions. it's very misunderstood and you know the doctor never said to me I think you have this it was more something that I put forward because it's starting to be spoken about a little bit more now but you do feel like the world is ending for at least a week every single month and it's just like impending doom all day and like yeah it's really tough for my husband to navigate because you know what you meant to say because everything he does I'd be like yeah um but generally we are both very laid back and you know he does his best to take Hallie out that situation I think situation I think on that particular night he took her away and I actually went to the bedroom because I just had to get away before I walked around a forest um but then she was crying and started coming into the room and he brought her in and I was like get away from me I don't yeah And I think because I'm the only person that calms her down, his solution is obviously to bring her to me because it will stop her crying.

28:38But sometimes I'm just like, you've just got to stick it out because, yeah. It's not what you needed. No, it's not what I needed. How incredible as well, though, to set those clear boundaries in that moment for you, Emily. Yeah. Because I think a lot of mothers, we're all just programmed to just constantly fix and heal. and we have to be available 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And as much as we want to be, sometimes we have to prioritize our own peace and our own well-being and actually our own safety. She's been screaming at me for the last God knows how long, an hour. And I just, I had to, yeah, physically step away from that situation.

29:14But yeah, my husband is very good in the way that he uses humor, the same as me. And sometimes it does just snap me out of it. and I literally sat on the bench and I was calling my mom and I spoke to her for what time was it like middle of the night yeah wow yeah um and I was talking to my mom again for maybe an hour just sat on a bench she was going please go inside just go home and I was like I can't I physically can't I needed the fresh air I needed to just step out and yeah she she's you She gets it because I've probably gotten the emotions from her. But I just said to myself, there's nothing I can do.

29:54I can't run away and emigrate to Australia as much as I'd like. I can't never come back. And I don't want to at the end of the day, but it just feels like a never-ending cycle, this lack of sleep. And I feel like I've tried everything and nothing's working. So all I can do is get the fuck on with it. That's the only thing I can do. Yeah, and take those moments. Take those moments. Those moments are so important to keep us from breaking, from actual breaking point. Yeah. Right? Let's not dress that up. If we don't step out of that situation, there might not be coming back from it for us. You know, that's why postnatal depression is so high because we don't.

30:33We just keep pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing until when?

30:36Georgia Dayton: And it's not normal as well because I think, like, particularly when I had Gigi and she was, like, quite, you know, young and I've still got a toddler and you're like, oh, my god I felt really guilty because I was thinking everyone does it why is this so hard like everyone's but I actually do think like when you look at it the pressures on our generation of parents it's actually so much more it's insane and so people go oh people have been having kids for hundreds of years and you're not the only one and all of that but actually it's not normal to get to those points and we shouldn't be getting to those points but it's literally just how we're having to live now yeah because we're all in such this sort of like high pressure environment all the time um it's quite scary the mum guilt is so real like honestly and only recently I've really started to say to myself no you need to take time for yourself or to come and do things like this today and we lived up north for the first year and a half I think of our daughter's life so we didn't have any family around us and now that has been a game changer like today my daughter's with my mum and yeah I mean I couldn't do it yeah my husband is amazing and obviously he's there all the time but without my parents these last six months god knows where I'd be yeah yeah yeah having that support system is yeah crucial do you get nights off well we did start sending my daughter to my parents for one night a week yeah um for sleepover um because she loves it she loves going there and she loves them and they have their little pizza party and that meant my husband and I got a night off yeah a week once a week yeah um but then we started doing this sleep training was sleep coaching so it's very kind of gentle so we couldn't send her because we wanted to keep that consistency but we're going away at the end of this month for four nights and my parents have her oh my god sorry mum and dad I'm buzzing I mean that's their problem when I'm gone I'll be on a boat party in Malta but um are you going to defected no we're going to our friend's wedding are you going to yeah and I'm so excited and when I'm there I won't care but I feel bad for my parents because then they have to deal with it they've got four nights you've had two and a half yes yes so yeah so we did stop those those sleepovers but hopefully it'll start again soon we'll be right back after this short break

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33:42Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? So question for you then. How do you feel about the sort of letting go of the sleep thing? because I remember someone saying to me, do you know what? You've just got to give into it. And I remember thinking, I'm going to bash your head against the wall because you've got no idea what it feels like to be this sleep deprived. But then the more time I've had to think about it, like you've mentioned that you were a bit of a partier in the past, a few late nights. So I always ask myself the question, I'm quite similar, have I felt worse?

34:14And the answer is always yes. And my rave days sort of set me up for this sort of impending lack of sleep. It was always there that I knew I wasn't going to get it. But how do you feel about that? Do you feel like there's something, because what I'm getting at is that maybe you think that there's something that you're not doing with her that's making her not sleep. Yeah. Where are you sitting on that now? I mean, I kind of got to a point and I messaged my sleep coach woman and said, I can't do this anymore. I've slept on a blow up bed next to her bed for the last few months. I slept in her single toddler floor bed, which I did last night for two hours.

34:52which I'm not meant to do. But my giving in would be her co-sleeping with me again, which I did for a period. But at the time I was breastfeeding, I was breastfeeding until she was over one, which was way longer than I wanted to. And that was again, another stress. And it wasn't even that I felt this pressure to carry on. She just wouldn't get off me. She would not get off my baps. So that was again, another mental strain that you have to go through. And I think if I ever had another child and that's another pressure that people put on you, I probably put on myself having more than one child. I don't think I would breastfeed because, yeah, you have to take on that load constantly.

35:36And I really struggled with that. So, sorry, going back to your question, I feel like I just want to keep trying the sleep a little bit because we have made improvements. Yeah. and if she comes into our bed then i don't sleep anyway so you know would you not no she doesn't just lie there and sleep um unfortunately oh god it's like rock and hard places honestly yeah i see all these things on instagram do you ever get fed all those algorithms because we we talk about the fact that we didn't co-sleep yeah i mean georgia were like it would have just been so much easier had we all just slept in this giant bed um and everyone would have got a good night's and you know and then there's all this like guilt around like we're programmed like animals to sleep together and actually if everyone just hopped on it I mean firstly I wouldn't have a marriage if I was co-sleeping with my kids because my husband would be constantly trying to fucking with his arm like that um but I don't know how I feel about it now I'm at the other side of it I'm like we've

36:34Georgia Dayton: spoken about this so we're like my daughter's nearly seven and my son's nearly 10 and actually my husband a couple of nights said to me nights ago said I think we should be sleeping with them more and I was like no I actually really agree with you really because I think you get to this point I don't know what it is it's like you get to the point where you're like it's now or never like they're not going to want especially with my like my son who's nearly 10 like it's going to be he's going to secondary school in September next year yeah that will be it like I know that he never will want to again it's a weird thing that we've said today weird and i like i keep thinking right so now we're like right once a week once a week we'll do it that's a massive commitment george yeah well no to be fair now when james goes out i say don't come in my bed go in this yeah and then i go in in the morning it stinks of men and i'm like there we go tick finding out to sleep next to either of you do you have you getting axel in your bed now no james will go in his bed like once a week and then i just on my own oh i get it yeah yeah okay so but we are we're making a conscious effort to like let you know if he says oh can someone sleep with me tonight whereas for 10 years we would have been like no that's against the rules we're like of course oh because you feel like yeah because it's coming to an end which is such a weird place so obviously we're like completely full circle like ends of you know different ends of the spectrum but don't get me wrong I did you know I do like lying in bed with her and cuddling and it's just maybe I will give in I don't know no but when you're two and a half years no it's no this is a record no you just touched on the pressure to have another child yeah where is that pressure coming from Yeah, the pressure is getting worse.

38:31I don't know if it's, I don't think it's even society. Maybe it is, but people say to you, I mean, from the moment your child leaves you, your body, people going, oh, when you're giving them a sibling, when you're having another, I'm like, I'm still high on whatever it is. Can you just let me recover first? Yeah. And I always thought I was going to have two kids, but then I didn't think I was going to struggle this much in motherhood. And my husband wants another child. So, and don't get me wrong, he doesn't pressure me into it at all. But I can sense, you know, he might see a newborn baby or if our friends have a baby.

39:14um you know our friends have three kids nearly and I can see him kind of wanting that but I just I don't think I would survive another kid at this current moment in time you know never say never I know and I don't think it would be that way I think if we did it would be quite a big age gap you know like my sister and I have three years but I see people you know having two under two and I just think what why would you want to do that but also I think some people have an easier

39:45Georgia Dayton: ride at the beginning yeah and some people don't and some people you know it's all different yeah and I think that's that I think no one really understands your full situation yeah and you know until you're actually living it yeah I I'm totally if I had if I had a child that didn't sleep for two and a half years would I have had another child I don't think no way no and then I just I put that guilt on myself you know the other day I was sorting out all her clothes and and I thought do I keep them do I give them away and it just it's moments like that you think shit what am I gonna do because you know I could regret it if I don't have another one I'd like to say I've got loads of time fingers crossed I might not even be able to have another child it's not that easy is it you've got to recover first though Emily haven't you yeah you're saying that you haven't recovered you feel like you wouldn't survive you can't do it no that's what I'm hearing from you and your baby's two and a half months old you're sort of lost like yeah no age at all is it no it's funny isn't it that we think we've got one oh we should probably add another one to the bridge regardless of what our body and everything is saying to us yeah and that's what people say oh they need a sibling they'll get lonely otherwise it's an only child i love being a total rat it's a total rat i could tell i was getting that all of it that day ocs only child yeah i heard you said the best yeah yeah i think you know if i can pour all my love into my daughter do we need another one yeah time will tell instagram says it's chic to find out i'm pregnant instagram says it's chic chic to have one daughter did you write the post no i'll just try i like it and share it constantly yeah i've had i did share briefly about you know that pressure it was probably a stupid silly video of me making fun of it because that's my coping mechanism um but yeah I've had a lot of people kind of reach out and say please talk about it more because I'm in the same situation I don't know if I want another one you know or they want one their partner doesn't and that's really hard to navigate as well because you know I don't want to deprive my husband of another child um I'm sure he'd love a boy he loves being a girl dad but can't choose that though you can't I'm sure there will be a point where you can at some point but yeah also it's better that he has a sane ish wife and mum to his daughter than you know having two kids and not having that so yeah it's just I think there is there are external pressures for sure but people don't mean it maliciously no it's just when they say oh when's you're getting a sibling and I'm like shut the fuck up yeah yeah so yeah and and that goes there's things that I've said to people as well that have kids or when they were pregnant you know you know people say stuff to you or you know you go up and start touching someone's bump and you learn then you go through it yourself and you're like don't do that again yeah but yeah I think as long as someone doesn't mean it you know with harm it's just yeah it's just a lot it's the pressure that you put on yourself a lot of the time isn't it 100 % give yourself a break um we like to ask our guests to impart a piece of advice onto a parent listening to this podcast that might need a bit of help in the space they're in or just just a piece of advice that you really loved hearing that you kind of think about don't listen to anyone else's advice no I kind of thought about this because I thought we might chat about it.

43:10And do you know what? Every child is so, so different. Everyone's situation is so different. And I think, yes, I've had some great advice, but also when people push that on you, you're just like, you feel like you failed if that advice doesn't work. So I think part of me wants to say, don't listen to anything I've got to say. but also I think what I mentioned earlier about especially for toddlers and even for babies I would say is they try and remind yourself they are not trying to give you a hard time they are having a hard time because that just puts things into perspective a little bit for me um but yeah I think there's so much advice out there and don't listen to any of it yeah don't listen to

43:59Georgia Dayton: any of it take it with your salt yeah and products you love so maybe you said that you love making yourself feel better by looking good so it could be for you or it could be like absolute toddler must-haves I mean I mentioned it before about a good concealer I swear by the erborean CCI cream yeah I only started using it in the last six months maybe but it just makes me look a little bit more alive and I've seen everyone talk about it as well so that is a must-have in my makeup bag um Red Bull as well so don't drink tea or coffee because I'm a freak and yeah for toddlers um any what products are toddlers using I mean something we use every day and this is really boring but you know one of those um leaning towers leaning towers learning towers where you can like fold it up and they can stand next to you at the oh you're in the kitchen yeah yes yeah so we've got one of those and it folds down into a table as well oh cool so it just gives them that little brand is it uh pass I'll let you know okay yeah but there's loads out there yeah but yeah it just means that they can have a little bit of independence but help you and and I think a lot of the time you're running around the house you know I've got to do this I've got to put a wash on and actually you want to involve them because they just want to be involved they don't want to be a nuisance they don't want to be distracted and it's so easy to fall in that trap of you know just whack the tv on yeah don't get me wrong yeah my daughter has screen time um but yeah it just helps get them involved a little bit love those towers brilliant Emily thank you so much for coming to see us what a treat 40 minutes just like that Emily Rooster everyone thank you so much Oh, I really, really loved the conversation.

45:51And I loved I think I said it in the intro, the honesty was so refreshing.

45:58Georgia Dayton: Yeah. Yeah. Did you feel that? Yeah, definitely. And I think I thought she would be coming on and making jokes and giggles. But actually, she just laid it all on the table. And she was like, you know what, this isn't funny. Like, this is awful right now. and it and also the other thing is actually stopping her from having another child which I think nobody really talks about they don't you know everyone just thinks oh you just get on with it and you know you have another you know you have another child if you want one but she's like do you know what I don't think I'm worried I don't want to do this again like and she said she wouldn't breastfeed again and there's so many things that she kind of said that I'm sure lots of people listening will find comfort in knowing that somebody else is feeling like that I loved as well you know her sort of matter of factness around her redundancy yeah because I imagine that must have been how many women have to go through that I imagine that must have been so hard and she turned a really shit situation into something really positive yeah um you know actually having that time with you know with her um little girl at home I mean yeah really really really fantastic episode.

47:07As always, we'd love you to write, review, subscribe and please give our podcast a follow.

47:11Georgia Dayton: Yeah, and if you've got any feedback on this episode or guests you'd like to hear from or if you want us to do some more solo apps, let us know that as well. We're up for it. Just drop us a DM on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummies and we'll be back on Friday.

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