Friday Q&A: Comparison Being The Thief Of Joy with Dr Tuesday

0:00Hello, I'm Monica Reinagle, host of the Nutrition Diva podcast. Summer is here and with it, the hot and sticky weather. A morning working in the garden or maybe on the golf course can leave you more depleted than you realize. And plain water isn't always the most efficient way to restore the balance. That's where liquid IV comes in. Its science-backed formula is clinically proven to hydrate faster than water alone. Whether you're exercising, playing outside, or simply surviving a summer heat wave, it's an easy way to stay hydrated. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV, hydration that goes wherever life takes you.

0:36It takes the hits, runs the miles, rebuilds while you sleep. It's felt every fall, every dance floor, every belly laugh, and in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor, and this is Back Your Body, the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have, the one you have with your body. From scars to self-care, the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love, we're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them, or finally learned to listen to them. It's time to back your body the way it's always back to you.

1:12Back your body. Subscribe now, your body will thank you. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman and I'm Georgia Dayton and this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays.

1:48And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mamas. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hello and welcome to Friday's episode of the podcast. It's just me again today, but I am joined by someone who definitely knows her stuff. She's a psychologist, a mum of three, and she talks a lot about navigating the messy middle of parenting, which I'm excited about. We've got you guys to send in your questions, but let's welcome Dr. Tuesday to the podcast. Thank you very much. I'm going to call you Dr. Tuesday. Tuesday's fine. Tuesday is fine.

2:27Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. Okay, cool. How's your morning been? What's been going on before we get into the questions? Not too horrendous, to be fair. I feel like I very much, I've lived a morning in my husband's shoes today where I've just like got up and got straight in the shower and like got ready for work and he's been dealing with the chaos nice and normally well every day during the week it's the other way around really um so it's been kind of nice and I've just been like right see ya like bye everyone husband's dropping everyone off everywhere and getting everyone ready so it's been kind of nice that's good same as me actually today she had no kids this morning oh wow yeah they stayed at my parents last night oh wow so I just got up and got myself ready and although I woke up with an insect bite on my forehead which was enormous and then I took antihistamine and now I'm hoping it's gone down so yeah I wouldn't have noticed it if you fine good we're all good um but just before we get into the questions you are a psychologist just tell us a little bit about your day-to-day and also sort of your background and how you yeah sure so I'm a psychologist with an academic background.

3:38So I'm not the clinical kind of psychologist that would diagnose and treat people or offer that sort of support. I am the geeky, research-oriented, fact-finding psychologist who spent years in academia researching and just getting into the nitty-gritty details of various topics, teaching psychology students as well. My area of expertise was personality and individual differences so what makes people who they are like really I mean you know getting really interested and really curious about various aspects of personality and individual differences and then teaching that to hundreds of psychology students so that's my background and then when I became a mum everything just was like scrambled egg for me it was like this career doesn't make sense what am I doing this doesn't fit anymore who am I like what's this life that I've been building that suddenly doesn't fit me anymore and it all kind of unraveled itself very very quickly and I actually had said yes to a job when I was seven months pregnant with my first at a new university brand new department and everything thinking be all right I'll just have the baby he'll go to nursery and I'll just go and do my job and then he arrived and I was like what a massive mistake that was and I'd already like agreed to turn up like six months after he was born yeah not knowing just not knowing the impact that it would have on me very much thinking like he'll just fit in around my life like I'll always be me this is what I'll always enjoy and yeah it just felt like I was having a massive like identity crisis on the other side of birth I was like I don't want to go I don't want to work I don't like I don't want to do this job anymore it doesn't fit me anymore um but obviously had to had to go and do it um and but very much of the mindset like this is just a job just get through it just get through it like I'll figure something out I'll figure out a way forward and have kind of been trying to figure it out for years ever since and have landed where I've landed which is you know using my understanding of psychology and my ability to kind of translate what the research is saying to help us understand the intensity of motherhood the intensity of our emotional experiences so I talk about them a lot I write about them a lot and that's kind of like my day-to-day is kind of researching like looking into you know what the research says translating it talking about it like creating content about it and very quickly I've grown a very lovely community of mothers who were just looking for words just looking for a way of understanding yeah what's going on the hell they're going through and like why it feels so hard and why they don't have the language for it and why it feels so alienating in the like social media space that we find ourselves yeah trying to live in at the same time as our messy chaotic realities it's very hard what do you think just before we get into the questions from the listeners but what do you think the impact of social media or what if there is on there has been on motherhood in general because it feels like it's a it's a big shift Oh, massively.

7:12Like we are, I mean, as millennials in particular, I know we talk about millennial motherhood a lot, but there is something very unique about our generation in that we are the first, well, we're what's known as digital natives. So we were the first generation to really grow up with, you know, access to the internet and things like that. And then by the time we became mothers, we were navigating social media, which previous generations had not done. this was all new territory and so what this meant was that we were like living in we are living in two parallel worlds one that's very unpredictable and chaotic and emotionally intense and then you've got this shiny curated like wellness crazy optimization space yeah that just clashes it clashes like hell with what we're actually living and so the impact of that is massive yeah massive but there is there is some hope in that there is research out there which shows that the impact of social media depends very much on how you use it right okay right so it's the passive scrolling and the comparison that tends to especially within the context of like loneliness for instance which I'm really interested in that tends to feed loneliness you know that kind of quietly watching what someone else is doing and measuring up your life to their success or how they look or you know that we're all we're all you know we fall prey to that quite a lot because we are as humans like prone to social comparison but research does show if you use it to actively engage and to have conversations and to like like connect yeah in like meaningful ways with other people which I really try my best to do um that can actually like combat loneliness yeah because I think with social media so when Zoe and I had our first children Luna and Axel social media is particularly in the parenting space was really glossy yes and we would often like laugh about it but we had each other yeah so we weren't looking at it like oh my god like that person has got all their kids out in matching outfits and they're all asleep on the bed and they all look so beautiful we would almost like secretly laugh about it together yeah um and we you know we you know we took it for what it was yeah it's just a pretty photo that's amazing that you were able to do that we had each other yeah to talk to yeah then I think social media took a turn and it was very negative so everything was about how hard motherhood was and almost like yes the reality that loads of us face but almost too maybe too much and now I wonder if it's kind of coming round again to a bit more balance I don't know I think there's some people who like love talking about how much they love it and it's wonderful and they're skipping through the fields then you've got people who talk about you know how really really difficult it is and I think there's a kind of maybe two camps yes and I don't know which one is right it's fascinating though that like you even perceive it as two camps because that that is how our algorithms kind of set us up in that there's it kind of promotes a very binary thinking it's either this or that when actually it's both and everything in between right it's not and you know our algorithms very much craft our news feeds to tailor it to what we look at yeah what we're interested in and so you know the fact that some people's it sounds like everyone's talking negatively about social media, it's your algorithm giving you what it thinks that you're going to be interested in, right?

10:58And if you only see the positives, it's your algorithm giving you, you know, what you're interested in. I would like to hope that we are kind of shifting toward a balance. I mean, it's what I see more of because that's what I actively create, right? And that's what I actively seek. But I do also see very harmful sides of it. And I get, you know, a very small minority but criticisms as well from strangers on the internet yeah who will you know show up to remind you of the life that you chose and how dare you say something like that and and you know some of the time it's from other women and mothers which is yeah you know the painful part for lots of women because it's like you're not helping us by you know by saying you chose this come on yeah Yeah, exactly.

11:46But I very much had that view of social media, the one you're talking about when you became a mom for the first time. I had that, but I didn't have anyone to speak to. So I felt very isolated. Very isolated. I was the first of my friends to have a baby. So I spent a lot of time alone and I tried to go to the baby classes, but just couldn't. It felt more isolating to go to the baby classes. I also had a very intense, highly sensitive baby who was not content a lot of the time. And it felt very hard for me to get him out and about and to do things with him. And because I was struggling as well with that, finding it very overwhelming.

12:29So to me, it was like the easiest thing is just close down, just don't do anything. So I then turned social media and saw the matching outfits and the wholesome days out and the filtered like family moments. and it felt like why why can't it be like that for me why why am I having this ugly version of it that you know it must be something about me must be something you know because that's that's the loop your brain goes on it's like well if it's supposed to look like that why does it feel like this for me and what does that say yeah what does that say about who I am yeah I'm not built for it yeah maybe I wasn't supposed to do this like there's a lot of thoughts that we can end up like getting really stuck in yeah and i think that can you know that's in all aspects of life through social media completely you know i think we try on made by mamas in particular to talk about you know for instance the school holidays you know people listening right now you all have seen okay i went on a lovely holiday last week maybe when you listened to this a couple of weeks ago zoe's away you think everybody's away and you don't see actually what is you know that's a small small snippet and the rest of the holidays is you know me dropping kids off to camp yeah me you know working from the office and the kids coming in every five minutes asking me for something like it's actually really messy and we do try to show that that is that that's how it is and it's it can be really good and there are amazing times but also it's not like that always and also half the time when it's bad you haven't got a camera and that's just the reality of it isn't it it's much easier to take pictures of pretty things it is and good moments than it is to take pictures of bad ones yeah it's so funny because I'll often like I mean our household is particularly intense we're very neurodivergent household there's a lot of noise there's a lot of chaos there's a lot of like conflict going on and I I set up my phone just I just put it in the corner of the kitchen just to capture.

14:32I just set it up and I forget about it genuinely. And so I often catch a lot of the bad moments, a lot of the really hard rubbish that goes on. And then I share it. And then, I mean, the overwhelming response is, oh my God, I feel normal. Like this is literally my life. You've like, thank God I'm not the only one living this crazy chaos. But then obviously you get the ones, oh yeah, you're having a hard moment. And then you think, oh, I'll just set up my phone and I'll just capture this I'm like no actually it's the other way around I set it up and then naturally yeah of course inevitably that's important though that's really important thing that you're doing to show that it feels important yeah because I know for me I need it yeah I need to see someone else's chaos yeah I'm normal yeah no no I don't know I totally get that and before maybe you would you know chat to somebody about it but the reality is that we don't because also in lots of houses both parents are working so whereas before maybe somebody would have half an hour after the school drop off to talk at the gates yeah we don't have that we don't have we're rushing off we're picking up at different times because of after school club and this this and this rushing off to something else so you do miss that bit where you need to just know that someone else is having the same issue massively and like we talk about this lost village all the time right and so many people focus on like the physicality of that and like people supporting you day to day with logistics and having like grandparents or aunties and cousins nearby to like lend a hand but it's bigger than that it's what you just said it's the like little daily interactions that kind of help you feel like I'm connected to something bigger this is really normal and like I'm seen I'm seen in this like day-to-day like crazy carnage that I'm living but we don't have that really anymore so we turn to our phones and if what we're seeing is glossy optimized you know curated magic it makes you feel like it creates a really big gap between what you're living yeah and what you think you're supposed to be living and you know that's the space where like shame comes in to set up camp and tells us, you know, there's something wrong with us.

16:51We'll be right back after this short break.

16:59Hello, I'm Monica Reinagle, host of the Nutrition Diva podcast. Summer is here and with it, the hot and sticky weather. A morning working in the garden or maybe on the golf course can leave you more depleted than you realize. And plain water isn't always the most efficient way to restore the balance. That's where liquid IV comes in. Its science-backed formula is clinically proven to hydrate faster than water alone. Whether you're exercising, playing outside, or simply surviving a summer heat wave, it's an easy way to stay hydrated. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV, hydration that goes wherever life takes you.

17:36It takes the hits, runs the miles, rebuilds while you sleep. It's felt every fall, every dance floor, every belly laugh. And in return, it asks for nothing. it just keeps going I'm Ellie Taylor and this is Back Your Body the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have the one you have with your body from scars to self-care the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love we're talking to people about the bodies they live in how they've pushed them neglected them rebuilt them or finally learned to listen to them it's time to back your body the way it's always back to you back your body subscribe now your body will thank you

18:19welcome back to this episode of made by mamas now where were we so you're obviously talking about social media narratives and how it feeds into parenting i've noticed recently there's been a big shift with people talking about you have a different like you experience motherhood in a different way if and it's like if your kid sleeps you are experiencing motherhood in a different way is that helpful because for me I'm not in that stage anymore no okay I'm really not and I definitely had kids that slept and I used to feel guilty for not finding it so hard because I was rested so I did understand but I don't know how are we just creating more division with that yeah I don't but then is that is that is that a reality because it probably is Yeah, it is.

19:11And I say that, I do say that as someone who's had kids that haven't slept and who's had kids that have slept. So I know that the reality is fundamentally very different. You feel like a broken person versus, you know, oh my God, I can scrape together a thought because I've had 12 hours. It is totally different. But I get what you're saying in that it creates like a, you know, us versus them. yeah or is it I don't know that's why I'm asking you yeah it's just something I've noticed recently yeah I think I've heard people I mean I I sit back as an observer with a lot of these things and I've seen I see arguments from both sides so it's like people saying well we are shining a light on how hard it is yeah valid it is and then I see other people say well yeah but it like you say it's creating this us versus them mentality and it's like well you know your version is harder so I can't complain about mine and it's quite minimizing then isn't it because what's hard you know it's all very relative it's like there's always going to be someone who's juggling more who has more difficult reality than you that it's going to be more intense for some people but that doesn't mean your version isn't hard for you it's very minimizing yeah lots of ways isn't it it's like well I've got it harder than you so you don't have the right you don't have to worry Yeah, and we talk about it as well with support, you know, like I've got parents that live down the road from me now.

20:39I've lived both. I've had it where they lived away. And I know that it has made my life 110 % easier. Completely. But then there are other challenges with that. And it's that whole thing, you know, people say, oh, I know Zoe has a nanny a few days a week at home. Oh, well, you can't complain because you've got this. It's just not, it's so nuanced. like there's so much and I just think it's really unhealthy that we're all like digging against competing yeah it's like it's like this one-up sort of mentality of well I've got it harder yeah why are we doing this why are we struggling to get to the hardest point yeah why are we like fighting each other like yes it's valid your experience is valid that is so hard not to sleep good god that is hard sleep is a fundamental human need we break we break without it yeah and that is undeniable but that doesn't mean I can't say that I'm finding some parts of what I'm living hard it's all very valid yeah it's all very human yeah why are we trying to you know diminish someone else's experience just to prove a point we don't have to do that yeah we don't have to do it it's so true and it's a good reminder um because I think we can all feel like that sometimes yeah massively massively right let's get into some of the questions um okay this is a good one because this is what we've just spoken about help I can't help but feel bitter and sad at the lack of family support and how they show up for my kids that is hard yeah that is hard like first of all that is totally valid and it's like that bitterness is perhaps arriving where some expectation hasn't been met maybe it's like I was expecting to have more support I was expecting to have them to like to show up and they haven't and so the bitterness arrives and it's real and it's valid yeah like there isn't much more to say like there's no oh you know it's okay other people have it worse yeah or you know any way around it the bitterness is valid and real and it's showing up as a response to something very real yeah for you yeah and how do you navigate bitterness if you do feel that way what's the best way to try and navigate it so bitterness is like related to resentment isn't it it's like I resent the fact that I haven't got help and resentment like any other of our human feelings is a signal it's it's telling you that something isn't balanced here that some equation is off.

23:16And when it comes to feeling like resentment in the face of a lack of support, it's there to tell you I'm carrying more than I expected to, than I feel like I have capacity to. I don't have bandwidth for this. It's like I'm not being seen in some partnership or relationship, which in this case is with the wider family, right? It's like I'm not being supported by my wider family I'm carrying more in this equation than I feel like I'm able to and I should be and I think resentment like the way to kind of meet resentment is with just a very honest acknowledgement of where it's coming from like what am I carrying that feels too heavy where is it exactly that I feel like the balance is off and like someone else needs to be helping me in this and needs to be carrying more than what they are which in this case is the family Yeah.

24:09And then it's like an honest conversation with, you know, those people in your life. I hear it more often with partners than wider family. But it's like, you know, we need to talk about this equation, not in a in a like attacking you do nothing to help me kind of way, because defensiveness like shuts it down and we don't actually get any further forward. But it's like, this is my experience of what this is like. I'm carrying X, Y, and Z and it's breaking me. I have no capacity for all of the things I'm carrying. And I feel like I need help. Like sit in your perspective of it, not what they're not doing.

24:49What does it feel like for you to be carrying too much? What are you carrying? Where is it too heavy? What do you wish someone else carried for you a bit? and speak from that rather than yeah you know you're not doing this you're not yeah exactly which is the easier response I think sometimes especially when we're in survival mode and we just like we want to find a way out it's easier to say you're not helping me with this you're not like help me someone help me basically it's like a survival response isn't it yeah no totally um this one's actually quite funny how to not lose your shit on the daily oh lord still trying to figure that out this one this is a biggie losing your shit is a big one for lots of us because there's lots of shame wrapped up in that yeah it happens yeah losing your shit happens first and foremost let's just normalize that yeah yeah let's just normalize that straight off the bat because i think that's another thing that's so stigmatized and so like don't talk about this and social media don't admit to being an angry mum yeah or ragey mum or if you see somebody shouting at their children in public it's so easy to be like it is so easy but you have no context whatsoever could be the 57th time she's asked them not to do that or you know whatever it is losing your shit comes down to capacity like we need nervous system capacity to be able to regulate ourselves and when I say regulate ourselves I mean create some distance between I'm feeling really angry that I've had to ask 18 times for someone to put their shoes on or to not climb that piece of furniture or whatever it is creating space between that feeling of like I'm really unheard right now no one's hearing this voice and that makes me feel really powerless and I'm gonna just lose my shit on all of these children right now like and just flip out to create some space between those two things to emotionally regulate that anger and that frustration you need capacity yeah you need nervous system capacity to be able to take a step back name what you're feeling and decide how you're going to make that feeling known yeah which a lot of us don't have the time or the capacity like life comes at you fast and you just flip your lid basically the thinking part of your brain goes offline and the pure survival instinct comes out and you let it rip yeah so I think the how to not do it is you need capacity but we need to then be more honest and mindful of what our capacity is what's taking it what's draining it away and what's returning it to us and I don't know about you but like my capacity for instance my capacity drains which are really big ones sensory input I can't stand noise I find like lights too many things happening all at the same time clothes certain clothes I can't like certain fabrics mess visual chaos sends me sends me I'm gone um too many demands phone notifications yeah pinging pinging pinging yeah um there are so many things that take capacity from us right and we all have them yeah saying yes to too many things yeah capacity is gone yeah um just demands of the situation and I think we all need to be really honest about what's draining our capacity in our day-to-day life and what's returning it like if we're really honest are we are we getting the sleep that our capacity needs like that gives it back to us are we saying no and holding our boundaries are we being mindful of our sensory needs as well in all of this like most people who follow me on social media will be aware that I spend a lot of my days wearing ear defenders oh do you yeah I actually do in my house because my children are very sensory seeking so they'll squeal or squawk or like just high-pitched screams or bickering.

29:02I can't stand it. And so I literally, and I flip my lid. If too many noises are coming at me at once, I will flip out. So I try and reduce the sensory input so that I can deal more calmly with the situation. And it works like a treat. And so many people are like, oh, you wear them around your kids. What kind of message is that sending to your kids? I'm like, that I prioritize my needs so that I can show up in the way that I want to. They wear ear defenders if they're going on the train. or if they're going in lounge spaces, why can't I do the same thing as their mum so that I'm able to maintain some capacity to regulate?

29:37I find it really interesting, the things that, you know, trigger that, like, emotion of, like, people. Because why is it in cars that people are so angry? Is that what it is? Because I find that wild. Some people are so angry in the car. Well, it's never really about the car, though, is it? There are so many other things that have led to that moment. It's never, like the moment you're witnessing is never about the moment, like rarely about the moment. Yeah. Like, for instance, at bedtime, I am known to lose my shit at times when I'm just like, my kids will try every delay tactic under the sun to try and have more time or to try and just mess around or whatever it is.

30:22You know they're tired and you know it's bedtime and you know you've had enough. Yeah. But I'll hit a point where I'm just like, no, like I'm going to, but it's not about them not going to bed. It's about all of the drip, drip, drip, drip, drip of the day. Yeah. That is like, I'm overflowing. And I say that to them. I'm like, well, especially my eldest. I'm like, I've got nothing left. Yeah. I've literally got nothing left. Yeah. And that's why I have no patience at the minute because I've given it out. I've given all my patience out today. And I have none left. and I'm so sorry that I've just shouted or whatever, but I have nothing left.

30:57And that's not about you. That's about me, my capacity. I need to recharge. And my seven-year-old has said to me in the past, he's like, it sounds like you need to be plugged in. Yeah, I do. I need to be charged up. I need to go to bed. I need to get off my screen and I need to just recharge. And it's like explaining that to them in terms of capacity is really helpful because then I hear that mirrored back to me yeah they've had enough they've had enough yeah like my seven-year-old will say that to me like I I have no patience or I'm getting really frustrated I'm like yeah I feel yeah and I guess maybe that's the same as people in the car it is yeah they've just the final thing is just like tip them over the edge I don't know if you think it's but I always think like you know the people who let everyone go like you know you stop you let someone go I'm like they're having a good day yeah they have capacity and the people who don't they like storm on past I'm like oh they're having a bad day this is it's a capacity thing I always say that it's a capacity not a character thing yeah um I used to be really confident at work but motherhood has completely knocked my confidence how do I rebuild it oh that's a really hard one and and something I have felt and lived through and it's really really difficult I think I mean confidence is like a sureness of who you are right it's it's like you feel really rooted in who you are and you feel connected to that and when we become mothers that connection is frayed a bit because of everything that we go through at a neurological level right we all we we're hearing more about matrescence yes um at the moment do you want to just explain to people who don't know absolutely So matrescence is a developmental period that we enter from pregnancy onwards.

32:42So in the same way that in adolescence, when we hit puberty, our brains and hormones undergo significant shifts that literally change our wiring. And we're kind of like in this liminal space between who we were and who we're becoming, the adults that we're becoming. Motherhood does the same thing to us. And it's called matrescence. Our brains are rewired and undergo changes that are morphologically similar to what we see in adolescence. You can see on brain imaging scans that our brains are restructured and rewired to make us basically the most effective child's protection machines possible. It's all we're wired toward looking after these tiny humans that we're creating.

33:27And as we know, our hormones undergo significant shifts as well during all of that. like for instance three days after giving birth or hormones yeah drop off drop off a cliff edge then we hear a bit about the baby blues which can you know occur around that time but matrescence is this really awkward stage for lots of us some of us handle it better than others it's it knocked me for six which is why like I was saying early on the other side of birth I felt scrambled which was me reacting to matricence and the kind of fragmented version of my identity and my life that I found on the other side it was me having a really normal response to a brain that's rewired and so I think this map it sounds like a lack of confidence and like sureness around who you are might very well be tied to the the fact that you're in a very disorienting stage yeah of your life it's hard to feel like there's anything concrete to hold on to when change you're in the middle of change yeah like I don't know how far along in that journey this person is but it takes time for those pieces to kind of rearrange themselves and for you to feel connected and confident yeah and I think just knowing that is really helpful just knowing that is really helpful yeah because you wouldn't expect a teenager to have it all figured out out and know who they are.

34:54But why do we expect it of ourselves? Yeah, when there is such a huge shift. And I do think, yeah, like, you know, you say, some people do deal with it. Yeah. But maybe some people lean in completely into the new, like new them and the new life and all of that. And so absolutely, if you don't feel like that, then that's, that's completely normal. But it is interesting that that is a genuine shift in your brain. Massive. Yeah, massively, like neurologically, it's there there's evidence for it and like you said we we wouldn't expect like we we talk a lot about awkward teenagers right not having this confidence and it's like well why would we expect ourselves to be any different when you know our brains have gone through something as significant as that we still expect ourselves to be competent and confident and you know this like I don't know kind of glowing gliding got it all together got it all together version there's there's just no way like some people do like you said and that's amazing yeah yeah absolutely rocket I wasn't one of them I was like good god my body I'm like wearing a suit that the you know just felt everything felt really awkward to me felt wrong yeah it took years took years to recover wow yeah gosh I just yeah I mean like you said it's a relatively new thing that people are starting to speak it is it is and I think I'm hoping that it becomes you know it is going to become more and more mainstream and that society will be kinder yeah to mothers and be more understanding more supportive yeah you know like for instance we've got the six-week postnatal tick you're off you're healed go forth and be yeah but actually we're still reconfiguring and you know some some research will show that it can take up to two years for our internal systems to resettle like hormonally for instance um other work on like postnatal depletion has shown that it can take some women up to a decade to yeah to replenish the the depletion that they're experiencing yeah there's some wow like clinical work on postnatal depletion that has shown that some women in like this clinical practice that this this doctor observed can take up to a year to to replenish stocks that were given during pregnancy like you know nourishment wise nutrient wise feeding is massively draining on our resources sleep as you just said that's massively draining on us um and for some women the level of depletion that we can experience is a decade worth of recovery.

37:30Oh my gosh, that's wild. That is wild. Yeah, it really is. We'll be right back after this short break.

37:43Hello, I'm Monica Reinagle, host of the Nutrition Diva podcast. Summer is here and with it, the hot and sticky weather. A morning working in the garden or maybe on the golf course can leave you more depleted than you realize. And plain water isn't always the most efficient way to restore the balance. That's where Liquid IV comes in. Its science-backed formula is clinically proven to hydrate faster than water alone. Whether you're exercising, playing outside, or simply surviving a summer heat wave, it's an easy way to stay hydrated. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV, hydration that goes wherever life takes you.

38:28And in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor and this is Back Your Body, the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have, the one you have with your body. From scars to self-care, the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love, we're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them or finally learned to listen to them. It's time to back your body the way it's always back to you. Back your body. subscribe now your body will thank you

39:02welcome back to this episode of made by mamas now where were we some well there's a few actually around this okay because someone's put like how do you explain the mental load to a partner who genuinely thinks everything is shared equally i'm exhausted from making every decision in our house is this decision fatigue a real thing there's loads of questions like that to be fair okay I feel like I'm a project manager more than a wife. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Talk us through how to explain the mental load to somebody who doesn't carry the mental load. Oh, so I mean, this is a side note, but you really need to get him on here.

39:38If you haven't, Alex Trippier, have you heard of him? No. His handle is be a good, be a happier parent. Oh yes, I have heard of him. Oh my God. He is the pro in this. He hasn't been on, but yes, that is a great challenge. He would be a great shout for you because this is his work as a dad explaining the mental load to dads. Oh, okay. He is incredible. I did a conversation with him recently. It's on my page. And what was fascinating, like talking to him as a dad who's kind of like been converted almost from a dad who didn't understand why his wife was like so angry and upset and overwhelmed. overwhelmed like all of the time when he really thought he was pulling his weight to this dad who suddenly like switched on to this mental load talking to him it was fascinating because he was just like dads like we just don't see it like in so many ways women are primed well from the very start when we're girls we're raised very differently to boys right when it comes to our emotions for instance we're socialized to kind of prioritize other people other people the harmony of the group And so is it any wonder that when we become mothers, we've got this same mentality where it's like, well, I've got to be the keeper of the harmony of this family.

40:57Like, I'm the one who is responsible for keeping this moving, for keeping everything running as it should, for keeping everyone happy and well. We're socialized into that when we're girls. explaining it to a husband who has been socialized very differently very differently is very very hard yeah and it's like it's such a tangled web isn't it the mental load it's like it's not one thing it's not a list it's not like a neat sequence of events it's like one thing that will depend on the decision that you made for another thing that depends on the decision someone else made that depends on someone else's need it's all like intertwined yeah and it's really hard to tease apart but I would say start with one one thing that you're carrying right and unpack exactly everything that makes it into that list so that the example that Alex and I talked about in our conversation was toothbrushing right yeah the kids toothbrushing what does it mean to be responsible for the kid's tooth brushing right well they all need to brush their teeth for a minimum of two minutes they need to make sure that they understand that they also all need toothbrushes they all need toothpaste but that child doesn't like that toothpaste because it's too spicy and you can't get that with the normal food shop so you need to order it from amazon separate and you need to make sure that that arrives on time before you run out because they can't use the spicy toothpaste if their one runs out so you've got to be on top of that and then when you go traveling you have to make sure that you know you have you've got you've got toothbrushes you've got all the toothpaste and everything like that and you've got to make sure they're doing it twice a day and also make sure that they're actually doing it when they say that they have because sometimes they haven't done it and they're doing it properly so there's like suddenly one thing has got loads of different you can see all the layers yeah right but add that on to like shoes yeah the kid shoes right have they got a pair of shoes yes okay what size are they okay they're this are they the right material are they the comfortable enough ones for the child like in my house it's got to be a certain shoe um yes okay but are they getting too small when are they going to get too small or are they getting a bit worn underneath can you get one so that get another pair so that they're ready to go oh but the shop that had them has run out they have no longer have that and start where can I find that shoe where you know and it's like you've got to be about 25 steps ahead yeah with every touch point every single thing and like but that's what Alex and I was saying I was like right now take the toothpaste formula and apply that to everything it's so funny that you picked the toothpaste thing because one of my friends and I'm obviously not naming her because it was you know we had a big rant about it her husband took a photo of the kid's toothbrushes and sent it to her and he was like why why are they brushing their teeth with these brushes they're all like like running low and all right and she was like can you can you believe that like it's so rude and I was like in the time it took him to take that photo and sent it to you and had a go at you yeah he could have just ordered or was it exactly exactly and not mentioned it no and i was on i still feel i actually still feel so i know it's infuriating about it now and thing is like i get how it gets to that it's not like i totally understand like when i first when i first had the kids my husband's job was a lot more um like it's just all more it was all encompassing it was very much i took everything yeah and then when I sort of when it sort of balanced out a bit and his job was less um like you know stressful and all of that and then mine was becoming more we really like hit massively yeah because I had been doing all of those things and he didn't even realize those things existed yeah exactly and so yes he was wrong and sounded awful if I'd have explained it like in that situation with the toothpaste yeah but actually it was both our faults because I never let any of it off and And now it's much better because he understands all of those small things.

45:15And I think if he ever sent me that toothbrush thing, he would be petrified in his life. Yeah. But it is so true. It's like what you pay attention to, right? And I think they just don't pay attention because they've never had to. They haven't had to. Exactly. And like, you know, from the very beginning, we are trained and we're training ourselves to notice all of these things. Like from the time, from the moment we're on maternity leave and like we've got these babies our minds are like we're so aware of how the system works yeah we're the expert in how the system works and they've never had to pay attention to the finer details in that way no and and communicating that's really hard to them right and sometimes it takes like that moment of like tug of war just completely butting heads yeah completely butting heads and I've been there as well where it's like you know like you my husband has a very all-encompassing job and so for a long time I've done everything most of the things and you know we've hit a point within recent years where it's like feels like tug of war I'm like no I want I need time and he's like no well I need time and you know it's like well who's going to do all the things yeah who's going to do because they don't just get done they don't you know fairies don't come in and just wash all the clothes and fold them and put them away and make sure everyone's got the right size of everything and the right seasonal like a coat that fits and the zip isn't broken and all of the decisions yeah that have to be made are often made by us and sometimes it's hard to explain that so it's like start with one thing yeah and then use that to just demonstrate how everything works yeah I literally now and if any of my friends you know entering motherhood I say to them I know you want to do everything from the start and I know you want to be like the one who buys it all does it all of that I get it because it's natural like it's exciting as well you know like I don't know if it's just as parents have become really excited as well about you know what that is about and you do all the research but don't like I literally just don't do it like it's from day one yeah don't just don't get into that don't do all of the things just like share it or if you're doing it say it yeah yes because yeah just say it out loud so then somebody else knows yeah exactly because I do I think I had that with my mum like my mum came to stay with us when I had Axel for a while and then when we moved closer to them she came and stayed with us two or three nights a week and so she shared my mental load because she had been there from the start so she knew all the things and I didn't have that thing of like you know when you're leaving your kids with grandparents and that you rightly speak a long list I didn't have to do any of that because she she knew it she knew it and I now look back and I'm like oh my god that is such a big that makes such a big difference but it does but that's yeah that's what we had once upon a time like as human beings in our ancient like you know caveman days we engaged in something called alloparenting where literally what you've just said we raised our children in small groups with aunties and mothers and cousins and sisters who were all involved in raising those children we literally shared the responsibility of raising children in a group is it any wonder then that where we are now where we're completely isolated we're completely on our own we don't so many people don't have that i know like is it any wonder that it's like utterly overwhelming like in the past in our ancient past if that happened if if a mother was isolated with her children they wouldn't have survived like on their own they wouldn't have survived and yes modern life looks very different but like mentally we're holding all of this stuff completely on our own and especially if you don't have a partner who shares it yeah it's enough to break a person yeah no I agree and it's just the small things like changing the toothbrushes like buying new socks when they add it to everything it's really stupid things but just someone else just even knowing and just doing yeah without saying yeah it's just like it's massive cognitive yeah massive because it's constantly running hot yeah constantly running hot we can't switch out from it and so it's exhausting and then you're hit with like a big decision that you need to make and it's like i don't know what to do yeah i can't even i can't even yeah i can't even go there no is it any wonder yeah but I think we've run out of time I hardly did any questions but I think we've covered a lot um so I think it's fine thank you so much but for anyone listening where can we find you um on Instagram on Facebook um I am on TikTok but I I'm not really there I mean I feel bad I can't do it all but it's all the same handle um I am Dr Tuesday um and that's where you'll find me talking about this stuff.

50:04So good. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

50:16Hello, I'm Monica Reinagle, host of the Nutrition Diva podcast. Summer is here and with it, the hot and sticky weather. A morning working in the garden or maybe on the golf course can leave you more depleted than you realize. And plain water isn't always the most efficient way to restore the balance. That's where Liquid IV comes in. Its science-backed formula is clinically proven to hydrate faster than water alone. Whether you're exercising, playing outside, or simply surviving a summer heat wave, it's an easy way to stay hydrated. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV, hydration that goes wherever life takes you.

51:01and in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor and this is Back Your Body, the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have, the one you have with your body. From scars to self-care, the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love, we're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them or finally learned to listen to them. It's time to back your body the way it's always back to you. Back your body. Subscribe now. Your body will thank you.