Friday Q&A: Dr Emily Crosby on Children's Psychology

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1:19Dr. Emily Crosby: Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot.

1:32Made by Mammas Hosts: We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you.

1:42Dr. Emily Crosby: Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands.

1:47Made by Mammas Hosts: And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mamas. But for now, George, should we get into it?

1:57Dr. Emily Crosby: Joining us on the podcast today, a child and educational psychologist supporting parents with the tools to help their kids with anxiety, emotional regulation and development. She is one of the leading voices in this space here in the UK. Please welcome Dr. Emily Crosby. looking absolutely gorgeous i know thank you so much i love it i dress up for you guys you know because you're both looking very glam as well yourself so i mean we're not actually normally

2:24Made by Mammas Hosts: well actually you are usually glam but i'm normally a bit more casual but i must have known today that you were going to be jazzy so just before we get into it because i feel like whenever we do these ask us ask a gp anything used to be like the one that everyone wanted but now well it's it's ask a child psychologist so I don't know what that says but tell us a little bit about like what you do day to day like who you are just an intro yeah um so yeah my name's

2:52Dr. Emily Crosby: Dr Emily Crosby I'm a child educational psychologist so I work with children and young people and I work with teachers I work with parents all the way from sort of little babies zero to 25 and young people so it's really quite a broad scheme of things and I think historically people thought kind of child and education psychologists go in they do an assessment of a child they tell a child or a parent or a teacher what a child can't do send a list of recommendations and kind of see you later there you go but actually our role is becoming a lot more diverse now and we're doing a lot more work you know thinking about the systems and we like to take quite a systemic sort of focus to thinking about how the environment can really impact on a child's development and well-being and so I really like to take a very holistic view and you know think about you know how different sort of family dynamics and school dynamics can really impact on a child so some of my work might be training and it might be supervisions doing parent workshops parent drop-ins and it might be you know supporting the staff and kind of understanding the child and kind of bridging that sort of home school relationships it's very diverse our roles

3:53Made by Mammas Hosts: really interesting every day is different every day is different no days the same I have people

3:57Dr. Emily Crosby: say to me what does your typical day look like and there is no kind of typical um day so that's what keeps it really interesting am i right in thinking that there is a really big jump so take for example when you leave a child leaves primary school and goes to secondary school how big that jump is not only for the parents but really for that for the child that you know the changing environments they have to make new friends again perhaps in some cases and actually should it be down to us as the parents to be um promoting those conversations with with your child so my daughter my stepdaughter isla she has left school and gone to a secondary school and it was only last night really and she's been there for three months now and i said how are you like what's going on tell me are you settling in have you made any you know i don't feel like i've really promoted those sorts of conversations and i feel like i failed in that area slightly but we finally got a really beautiful conversation off the back of it yeah i think you've made a really good point there a lot of the time parents feel like they need to ask all these questions and they need to know the answers And actually, sometimes you have to be comfortable.

4:58Dr. Emily Crosby: And as a parent, you know, with being uncomfortable, the fact that you might not ever know those answers, you might not ever have those conversations. And that's a really uncomfortable position to be in as a parent, because you naturally, you want to fix things, you want to give them answers, you want to give them reasons for things, but you can't. But definitely, I think parents can do a lot in terms of that preparation for secondary school, but it can't all just come down to parents. It has to be, you know, the schools as well. So, you know, primary and secondary schools working together. them and actually a lot of my work that I do as well is working with primary schools to think about how can we prepare them you know even from year five to year six and then how do we work with secondary schools to kind of bring that primary school nurturing environment into that first sort of term and beyond really you know half a year of year seven I think sometimes we make this big assumption like right they're going to be ready and yeah and they're not and they're not and that's

5:44Made by Mammas Hosts: when all the difficulties can start yeah we talk about this a lot actually and this sort of parenting in this sort of age group of like six to 11 is it's almost like the unspoken phase it's like you've talked we hear a lot about toddlers we hear a lot about kids when they're teenagers and they go to secondary school but we never hear about this bit and actually there's so this middle parenting there's so many questions that come up like you know there might be a child like my son's in year five at school and they um introduced the gate pass in year five which basically is to encourage kids to walk to and from school by themselves but it's wild how different like the maturity level is at that age like some kids are clearly ready and it's absolutely fine you know more than comfortable doing it and some kids just aren't there yet and I just feel like there's such a big gap in the emotional maturity at this age.

6:42Made by Mammas Hosts: Would you say that? Yeah there definitely is and I

6:45Dr. Emily Crosby: think it's not a clear point it's not a tick box or you know kind of get to this line and you write you're ready and actually socially emotionally you can develop at all different ages you know different in kind of what's going on at home and how the environment might impact that and you know genders could be you know sort of different you know boys and girls can you know develop you know differently but also you know socially and emotionally we can't really say by that age they should be able to do that we have to really go with that and again that's quite hard isn't it as a parent to know well actually how do I know whether my child's ready for that that's a really quite difficult place to be in.

7:16Dr. Emily Crosby: Emily let's get into these questions because we've had loads of them um I'll start us off at what age should I start worrying about my daughter's anger issues okay so I think it's not necessarily a certain sort of you know age and what I think you have to think about of anger is anger sometimes it's kind of like the top of the icebergs if we think about the iceberg model we often see the anger but actually what's underlying that anger there must be something that you know perhaps um the little girl I don't know obviously what age she is you know is perhaps struggling to communicate or struggling with maybe some sort of those underlying needs are not being met and so it's actually about being sort of curious so I think at any age you know you should be not necessarily worried but you should be curious why is my child you know presenting is really angry what is it about that that's making them really angry what is it they're perhaps not getting fulfillment in or what kind of need is not being met at that point is anger always a bad emotion no it gets it gets such bad press I think anger and I think everything's about you know they're just a really angry sort of child and they're an angry person but I always say okay let's try not use that word it's a bit like the naughty word you know we don't tend to eat I know some you know people use it mistakenly and we're all kind of guilty of doing that but actually it's not anger you know it's showing it sometimes you care you're frustrated you're upset about something you're disappointed but actually what is it you know it's more broader than just anger you can't put everything down just that one key word you know anger so never you know it's important you don't meet anger with anger at that point that's really isn't it and sometimes I do think though I think anybody listening to this that has met anger with anger don't also be so hard on yourself because we we natural we are the adults we should be able to regulate but also it's really difficult when you've got a child that's screaming at you in the face to then go okay think zen take a breath take a step back sometimes there is an explosion but it's rift and repair right definitely and it's okay you know if you have those moments and you do explode but it's all about you said a really key word there and is repair it's how you repair that harm I think a lot of the time sometimes because parents are so busy and they're struggling and teachers you know they forget to do that repair because there's other things that come up other things that they wanted to do first so because they forget about that that child then doesn't actually then understand how to repair those emotions so they're more likely to then carry that out again.

9:31Dr. Emily Crosby: So actually by repairing that, you're teaching, you know, you're problem solving with them. But it's at what point when that child is frustrated or feeling very angry do you offer that repair? And it often has to be, you know, when they are sort of in a regulated state, which sometimes means not doing it at that point. So then you do end up forgetting to do it. But that lasts, that stays with that child, you know, for a very long time.

9:52Made by Mammas Hosts: Yeah. There's a question here, which is probably quite a big question, but maybe will lead into like different topics. what do you see in clinic that causes the most harm to a child?

10:03Dr. Emily Crosby: I think the biggest thing that I see in my practice is probably when parents have kind of got unmet needs themselves or perhaps have struggled, maybe had some childhood trauma themselves or, you know, unresolved issues from their childhood or from how they were parented and they sometimes, no fault of their own, project that onto their child and I think that's where it can be really difficult and actually you know that parent at that point being open to that which is a really hard place to be and to do but it's actually trying to encourage parents to do that work themselves

10:34Made by Mammas Hosts: on themselves before you know what sort of things when you say so like I think you know unmet needs

10:40Dr. Emily Crosby: yeah I think sometimes parents go into parenting having this sort of view that you know their child is going to be this certain way do this certain thing and perhaps do the things that they didn't achieve in their childhood so you see a lot where you know parents are encouraging in a lovely way and it's great you want your kids to do well of course you do you're a parent um but sometimes your child perhaps doesn't want to do that and it actually becomes the parent's dream and not the child's dream yeah and then that can create so much anxiety and so much pressure which can then often lead into that resentment and when your child then doesn't end up thriving it can actually make them they go the other way um perhaps there might have been some sort of you know kind of attachment difficulties that you know the parent had themselves with their own you know caregiver when they were younger you know was their parent absent you know mentally emotionally were they attuned to their emotions they have a quite difficult childhood and actually that's you you do parent how you were parent is you know you can't can't help that you might take parts of it you think I want to do that or there's some parts I go actually do you know what I don't I don't want to do that and I think that's really normal and really common and it's not about then being angry or resenting your parents it's just about saying okay I liked that from my childhood I didn't like that and that's what I'm going to do differently but then that can be quite you know difficult if you know there's two of you in the parenting you know yeah you know there's a lot of single parents out there but also if you're co-parenting you know or you if you are still together I know a lot I mean I'm not a parent yet but a lot of my friends who are parents will say you know the arguments will start when you become there oh my god yeah we all say that you should have a written contract yeah like genuinely I feel like that is something that

12:14Made by Mammas Hosts: is so missing like having in these antenatal classes you know fine the birth which can last days or hours whatever it is then it's done but the focus should be on where you know where do you align where do you not like what do you do you like from your childhood what did you not like what are you because that's something no one speaks about I love that you said that Georgia

12:34Dr. Emily Crosby: because actually I've been thinking about that you know I think we sometimes do a lot of parenting courses or training when there's a problem and the problems you know become an issue but actually it's too late at that point it's never you know never too late you can always retrain things but I always think it's like before you get married you know sometimes you get married in church you have to do this marriage counseling like me and my husband we had to sit down you know and do these questions and I remember we came out that day thinking right we need a glass of wine now after that because it was a lot but also it really helps us have conversations that we probably wouldn't have had we wouldn't have thought about and actually those things have come up in our marriage since and actually we feel a bit more well equipped to deal with that and I think why don't we do offer that support at an antenatal level that's something that I would really like to do pushing my practice is you know supporting parents before they become parents and it's not because we can't predict everything you know no one's got crystal ball but actually equipping you with the understanding what do you need from your partner at that point you know when you are struggling what is it how was your partner parented because you will both be parented differently what's going to happen if you do end up you know go out of it go out of co-parenting or single

13:42Made by Mammas Hosts: parenting yeah we talk about it all the time don't we like the differences that we have like maybe with with our partners in you know silly things sometimes like whether we approach how we you know approach arguments like in the playground we'll say you walk away and you do this whereas you know your partner might say no you front it out and oh it's so frustrating I had one yesterday

14:04Dr. Emily Crosby: where Luna played a hockey game and she's new to hockey. She's only been playing for three months and she has to now go out on Sundays and play matches and she's doing really, really well. But some of the girls have been playing for like three years. So she still feels like there's that lack of confidence that comes in at certain points. And I really, she came off the pitch yesterday and she burst into tears and I was like, what's going on? And she went, I'll tell you in the car, I'll tell you in the car. And she went, I just feel really out of my depth, mummy. And I feel a bit scared. The other girls are much better than me.

14:28Dr. Emily Crosby: We went through it and I got home And I said to Dozz, oh, Luna had a bit of a tough time. And he said, oh, why? And I said, oh, a lack of confidence. She went, just not very resilient. We just need to work on her resilience. And I just thought, shush up. Can't we just hold this for a second? Okay, it might be that she's not that resilient, but perhaps it could also be that she's struggling with her confidence as well. And how do we get around that? It's so pig-headed sometimes. Yeah, I know. I was going to say, we had such a similar thing last week.

14:55Made by Mammas Hosts: Axel played in a football match. And he's played, this was his third football match of the weekend. right he was exhausted he didn't need lectures and they had a really bad loss anyway with James and I'd gone in separate cars because I'd been somewhere before with Gigi and we were walking out like to get in the car on the way home and he was like come in there actually are you coming home with me and he's like no and he was like I want to go home with mommy and then James looked at me and he was like don't don't tell him it's okay because it's not don't tell him and I was like absolutely I'm not going to say that he was basically saying to me give him a lecture because he wasn't good enough and I got in the car and I was like Axel I'm not going to talk to you about football don't worry about it and he was like I knew you wouldn't and I was thinking but he already knows like if things are going bad do not go to daddy like don't you're just going to get lectures

15:46Dr. Emily Crosby: do they need both yeah I feel like you're reading my mind I think it's really important for children to have both children need high guidance you know they need to be told kind of what to do shown how to do you know a lot of the time sometimes children are just kind of left and that's not helpful but they also need high empathy and it's about balancing the both which is really quite a hard balance to get so they need sometimes there will be that parent you know like you would probably describe in your um husbands they're that kind of high guidance you know sort of quite authoritarian quite disciplinary but also there you've showed that you've both been quite empathic and actually okay you there georgia you said it wasn't the right time let's pick the right time and zoe for you it was okay i get that but let's just look at the confidence and the feeling and the kind of self-esteem and underneath that resilience at that point so it's really quite a nice compliment and i do think you know we do need both of that i think the hard point and part is if there's one of you trying to do both and actually i think we all need to try and do both and i work with a lot of teachers and say that you know obviously we need to put that discipline in but it's how we deliver that discipline which is really key and I think yes sometimes in today's society we can't be in the middle we have to be one way or the other and I think actually what we need to realize there is a balance and it's about getting a bit of both and it's a you know it's good to kind of get a bit of that high guidance and also that high empathy and also you can be the disciplinarian without screaming and shouting and presenting with so much anger that it scares a child like we're not living in the 1930s or 1940s when it was get the cane out and be you know you didn't even look at your father let alone shake their hand or say you love them you can still set the boundaries without showing so much and anger is scary for children you know I I I feel like yes it's difficult to try and strike that balance but we've got we've got to try we do we do yeah you know it's not nice for you as a parent to feel angry or be angry no what's the best way to teach a child how to wait their turn when speaking that's really that's a really interesting one isn't it um yeah so turn taking and waiting and you know that's a really really important one so what we need to do at that point in time it's about showing that you know it's great that the child has been forthcoming because sometimes you have children that don't want to talk or don't want to say anything and then we have parents worrying you know in quite the opposite way so it's about kind of you know and crediting them for actually wanting to come forward wanting to say something so i can see you want to say something it's really great that you want to say something but it's not okay to say at this point of time we're going to try and say something later so can we do this first before that so it's actually showing them you know it's great that you have that so you're really validating that motivation and that you know want and desire to do that but you're then putting in that sort of caveat there and that kind of you know sort of boundary there at same but it's not okay to do it at that point point in time it's interesting is it because if you do sometimes say like if we just come and be like gg you know it's not your turn to speak now you could see the sort of shrinking and oh my gosh they've taken away my voice and that's something we don't want to do to a child either that is so true but sometimes if you're

18:46Made by Mammas Hosts: the parent of the child that's really loud and like you kind of want to do that don't you you kind of want to be like okay right that it's not about you it's not always about you like come on let someone else have a chance that's a nice way of looking at it yeah but I think it's okay to do

19:00Dr. Emily Crosby: that at points as well like you were saying there Georgia it's okay to go right okay just let's right now it's a little bit too much and you will have times you know if you're out in public let's face it you're going to be more likely to be like no like start off or we need to but that's okay you know you're not going to get it perfect all the time you know it's just about being good enough

19:18Made by Mammas Hosts: yeah or having the awareness i guess so that they sometimes check if they think it might be the right time to be talking or whatever we'll be right back after this short break

19:32Made by Mammas Hosts: Hi, this is Matt from P1 with Matt and Tommy, and this episode is sponsored by eBay. The cars you'll find on eBay are just different. They come with a story that you can't wait to share. Like this 1973 Dodge Charger on eBay that's been tucked away in an Arizona barn for over 40 years, only 55 ,000 miles, and somehow in great running order. It even has a rare sunroof. Suddenly, a car that was hidden for decades is being delivered in just a few clicks with eBay's secure purchase. All the paperwork handled. There are thousands of cars on eBay, from unique finds like the Pontiac Grand Prix SJ to daily drivers, and now with a new way to buy them.

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21:14Dr. Emily Crosby: That's R-I-P-P-L-I-N-G

21:23Dr. Emily Crosby: Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? Is there ever a world where a parent doesn't have a relationship with their parents, but they still have a relationship with the grandchildren? So this is a question that I'm sort of thinking. It's like, is it ever okay, just because you've got a bad relationship with your parents, does that mean that you have the right to keep grandchildren away from them now I don't know so what are your thoughts on it again I think it's very context specific I think what was the reason why you don't have a relationship with your parents you know and if it is you know because it is quite damaging and detrimental then it probably you know is okay then to keep your children away you know I think in an ideal world we would love to support that grandparent and you know grandchild relationship and you hear it a lot you know some parents will say I'm a better grandparent than I was a parent because my capacity yeah I've got big more tolerance you know I'm not stressing about having four children under four and I was you know separated I was on my own and now I'm I've built myself back up and I have the finances you know when you're young you don't necessarily have the fine financial means to be emotionally available and there so um if that was the reason I think we'll actually you know cut yourself some slack there it's okay but I think obviously dependent you know yeah and that's a bit reluctant to yeah but I guess if you're the parent who

22:40Made by Mammas Hosts: thinks that the if a relationship with grandparents and grandchild would be damaging then you know you don't need you maybe will naturally feel guilty but you you've got to be like strong in your your choice I guess you have to be very careful as well because I think sometimes a lot of grandparents try and then control it through the grandchild and actually you've got

23:04Dr. Emily Crosby: to ultimately the parent is the parent and you're the grandparent and you've got to respect that boundary and you hear it a lot you know I speak to kind of like my mum's friends and they'll say oh well I wouldn't have done it that way or I've done it this way but ultimately they respect that their children's wishes are and their children's desires are and that's where it's key in that you need that respect and it might not be how you would have done it but you know your grandparent it's an interesting dynamic when um you suddenly are able to communicate with your parents about your child you've never had to do that before because ultimately you've always been the child but suddenly you have your own children and I think lots of people struggle to have those those sorts of conversations with their parents because actually that's never been the dynamic like I know in Kenya there was some stuff going on with with my mum where I was trying to have a few mornings where I didn't have to get up at 6 30 and I'd go into the kids bedrooms at 8 30 9 o 'clock and they were still there just on their iPads having had no breakfast and I had to call my mum out I was like you know you're desperate for us to come here all you wanted was to help me and you're not helping me yeah please help me yeah and she held it and said I'm so sorry I don't know what to do I don't know how to play with them I haven't had that much experience with them recently I feel like I'm lacking in confidence I need you to guide me on that and it was like oh wow there we go yeah but there was a part of me that's like can I should I do it you know is that right should I still want to upset their friends but ultimately they are your children and your parent and you're there to you know yeah yes yeah and she needed to be pulled out on it i was gonna say also sometimes

24:33Made by Mammas Hosts: the dynamic of the parent being told by their kid is really difficult and sometimes some grandparents find that really hard to take you know like if you push back on something they've done they almost feel attacked but yeah yeah a lot of times parents will then do the opposite

24:51Dr. Emily Crosby: and then just let things go to please their parent and then i think it's quite damaging then for the child so yeah yeah balance guys right um I suffer with anxiety and I've passed it on to my eight year old eldest of three I don't want her to suffer like me first of all yeah that's that's a hard one and yeah I want to say you know I'm so sorry that you've struggled with you know anxiety yourself and that's really normal and really typical and you know we all have anxiety it's a survival function and but obviously for some people they do really suffer and they you know there is a real difficulty there um a lot of the time parents think they've passed it on to their child they probably you know haven't um or it could go the opposite you know they think they're totally fine and they have passed something on and I think it's really important it's really brave asking that question first of all and actually identifying it the first part you know this person's done has identified that so that's really good having that self-awareness um and you know really working through your own sort of kind of anxieties to make sure that you kind of then can separate that and from your child but I do think it is quite natural especially that first born child to pick up on those anxieties but making sure that you separate your anxieties from your child's anxieties how do you do that so first of all is doing the work on yourself and I think what we sometimes find is when these difficulties come up parents are so then focused on fixing their child's which is great but actually they need to work on themselves first and I always say to parents it's actually money on time and resources invested into your child by investing into yourself it's not selfish I think that we've kind of got to this well well I can't do all of this because I'm a you know a parent now and it's like well no actually you need to look after yourself we talk about um containing the container and actually we need to contain the parents anxieties in order to contain child's anxieties so if that means you have to get that kind of therapeutic psychological professional help for yourself and work through that then that's great and then working for your child separately I mean family therapy can be really helpful at that point because it moves away from the person being the problem and actually looking at the kind of dynamic and the systems I really rate any form of group therapy or couples therapy family I think it's absolutely fantastic actually having that time with a professional in that space where you are able to share you know a father daughter a mother so whatever it is to really share what's going on in a safe space where all the emotions are held I think that's truly how we fix because actually a parent will be behaving in one way a child will be behaving in one way and actually they could just come to locker heads and actually no one can no one can grow from that can they yeah I really

27:34Made by Mammas Hosts: believe in it yes good advice really good um how to support your child when you know school is making them miserable and they're only in year four gosh yeah that's a really hard hard one it's

27:47Dr. Emily Crosby: a big conversation at the moment because you know schools are under so much pressure and I think a lot of the time parents are quite quick to blame schools and schools are quite quick to blame parents and actually that's where we come in is kind of educational psychologists and say right let's sit down here what's going on at home what's going on at school how do we separate this out and actually how can we collaborate together but it sounds like perhaps this young person might be struggling because school's just not meaningful for them the curriculum doesn't isn't interest in them enough and I think again that's a big thing that we're seeing at the moment the curriculum isn't made up for the how young people are learning now young people want careers you know as tiktokers and influencers and youtubers and gaming and mind all things like that so actually the typical kind of curriculum isn't sort of fun but this put this child's in year four year four yeah so what advice would you give to how how would they go about supporting so I would be asking is it the learning um I guess I went on a bit of a run there but is it the kind of social emotional side of things is that they're struggling with friendships you know is they struggling they do they not feel safe do they not feel secure um is it something you know in the family or home that's then being projected into the school environment a lot of the time children even from that young age of year four there could be something in their kind of friendships that could be really bothering them they might not feel like they have friends in school they not might not feel like they're good enough at anything so it's about kind of showing which sounds horrible I know it's really hard to hear but finding their strengths finding what they're good at you know talking to the school first of all saying you know this is how my child's feeling this is what they're kind of experiencing what can we change differently at school right um but then also supporting at home as well by you know giving them that space to kind of share those feelings which sounds like

29:28Made by Mammas Hosts: what's happening yeah it's hard isn't it when your kids sort of suddenly decide they don't like school anymore like mine are both going through a period at the moment which is really weird where they just every day they go oh I'm not feeling very well my tummy's hurting and then the other one goes yeah I'm not well as well and I think what has happened like I know I'm laughing about it because it's funny and I'm like guys if you're gonna do this you know yeah well you need to get better acting because one doesn't have a tummy ache and the other one doesn't start coughing in the same breath like I can see through this go back and rehearse better but um there's got to be you know you start to think god what has changed because we've never had this before and now all of a sudden both of them are like no not up for it anymore it's weird it when you think about it um no just always like at night yeah in the morning like just they're just not up for it anymore which is weird I just wonder what the shift is I think that's pretty normal isn't it I mean do

30:28Dr. Emily Crosby: remember back to your school days I couldn't think of anything worse than going to school I was literally then my mum I remember my mum saying to me you've got like 10 more years of literacy and I was like oh my god what you know head on the radiator it's normal not to want to go into work some days yeah you have some days you go do I want to go into work or do I want to go and do these adult life things I think that's the thing we kind of freak out sometimes when our children say or do these things but actually as adults we don't want to do a lot of things do we that we no we have to do that's true communication yeah I love that um this is from okay this is from someone who says my daughter who's 13 um her confidence and self-esteem has decreased hugely since starting her period any help around this would be great oh gosh it's such a hard hard time isn't it I think we can all relate to that it's the worst feeling in the world is the worst um it's a really really difficult time I what you've got to remember in adolescence and sounds like this young lady she's going for a point of time where she's working out her identity so it's a really typical time development in adolescence around that age to really think about your identity so who you are what you are you know that kind of self-concept but also that self-esteem so how do you feel about those kind of things how do you feel about the fact that you know you are now transitioning from a child to an adult that's a really key point that's one of the key first points is kind of starting you know the period your periods and knowing okay I'm not a child anymore I'm now you know an adult so that brings up a lot of those emotions so then there's more kind of pressure on kind of responsibility and so I think what I would advise as parent is to you know keep some of those really nurturing nice things that this girl likes you know it might be that she's not quite ready to be at that adult stage yet and that's what's probably really affecting her sort of you know confidence so kind of at that sort of social emotional level making sure that she does those nice nurturing things and but also by guiding her you know going this is you know validating it this is really normal everyone feels like this and you're just going through a time and it's there's no rush to get there you will get there I think all of a sudden it's a sudden you know kind of click in young girls mind oh I now need to be a woman um but

32:37Made by Mammas Hosts: it's about knowing this is just one part of it yeah but it feels like it's everything does it

32:42Dr. Emily Crosby: feel so defining and the physical things that happen to you know 11 12 13 year old girls such a big change you know even looking at their skin and you know the way their body changes and stuff I mean us as adults we're supposed to be able to have that emotional maturity to be able to handle it but when it happens to us you know when we get I got spots the other day and I was like oh my god I was like what's happening to me and I'm a grown-up you know what I mean like I look at my 12 year old and I think wow you're going through so much in your on your young shoulders yeah it's

33:10Made by Mammas Hosts: hugely hugely scary time it is yeah I'm more exposure I think now obviously I've got you know

33:15Dr. Emily Crosby: social media they've got more exposure to image and how things should look and filtered yeah yeah

33:21Made by Mammas Hosts: also chat around it I guess you know before you would just talk among your peer group about periods or not or you talk to your mum and your auntie or whatever but now they can search so much stuff and they can find out so many things and people talking about what happens and there's just loads more information which in a way is positive but also when you're 13 years old that can probably be quite daunting to have all of that information without context and it's

33:47Dr. Emily Crosby: you're in your head you're kind of forming that identity so you're looking for things to seek that so i am i good looking or am i pretty or am i ugly then you look for things to confirm or unconfirm those things and then it's that confirmation bias that we talk about in psychology which is then just reinforcing those messages and reinforcing that internal narrative in our minds yeah so it's a really and then they stop sharing then they stop talking and then then then they become introverted. Like it's, oh, it's a lot. Sounds like you're doing a really good job by asking that question and, you know, trying to make it better for her.

34:18Made by Mammas Hosts: Yeah, definitely. We'll be right back after this short break.

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36:13Dr. Emily Crosby: Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we?

36:16Made by Mammas Hosts: How to help regulate emotions and unkind words, please. I can't spot any triggers. Okay. This is a five-year-old boy.

36:27Dr. Emily Crosby: Okay. That's, yeah, again, really, really common. And I think it's great there that the key word triggers was sort of mentioned, because I think that's the first sort of thing that we go to. What is it that's causing these sort of unkind words and this dysregulation? But actually, I think it's probably looking even deeper than that. There must be or there will be something, some sort of pattern of behavior that's kind of built up, you know, over time. And again, going back to that sort of iceberg model, what is it underneath those sort of unkind words? it sounds like to me that this young person is perhaps I don't like this term attention seeking so I like to reframe it as attention needing there's some sort of attention that's not being met 100 % that's what it sounds like and so really you know thinking okay what is it is perhaps you know I'm distracted with something because there are a lot going on to something at school do they not feel seen they do not they might not feel heard so instead of actually reprimanding those kind of negative behavior straight away even though they're not okay and you will be doing that but actually spending some time with your five-year-old and seeing if there's some sort of kind of you know extra layer of kind of attention that they need at that point whether it is that's kind of special nurturing time and that kind of level of attunement where it's just pure parent

37:38Made by Mammas Hosts: and child attention yeah there's a lot of acting out at that age like like five six that kind of you know area like age group is it about attention yeah it is a little bit but not all

37:51Dr. Emily Crosby: big part of it as well as you're kind of going from that sort of kind of toddler stage if you think you're going from sort of baby infant to toddler and then going to that toddler to young child and kind of baby infant toddler you've got the parent there or a caregiver whoever's there all the time kind of giving those answers for you showing you how to behave you know regulate kind of form that environment and then there's almost like this shift that actually I've got to do that a little bit on my own but they still need a little bit of that so you're kind of building that independence so actually some of those kind of externalized behaviors and those words are actually them trying to communicate I'm not quite sure how to do that or I don't feel quite safe here I need some sort of you know adult involvement to help me feel safe and secure but there are parts of it that can be that attention needed yeah and also remember that's when they start school right yeah they're going from having you or a caregiver the whole time and suddenly they're in a class with 30 other kids and they feel oh god yeah how do i how do i get some of the spotlight on me and i think that's totally yeah trying to find their voice as well as well testosterone kick that first like trance of testosterone hits at five six so that's going to play a part isn't it definitely yeah i say that to my friend all the time she's got a little boy and she was like oh my gosh it's so you know different from girls and my friends have got girls and i just keep saying to it's testosterone yeah kicking in baby yeah yeah yeah gosh oh gosh um dr emily thank you so much for coming on the podcast that was so great i'm sure people will

39:11Made by Mammas Hosts: take loads and i'm so sorry to anyone listening if we didn't get to your questions but we'll maybe do a follow-up or something because there were yeah so many but thank you it was really really

39:20Dr. Emily Crosby: great and i'm sure really helpful and how can people find you on instagram um so i'm at dr Emily EP. So you can find me on there. And any questions that we didn't get to today, I'm sure Emily's around, so drop her a message. Dr. Emily Cosby, everyone. Thank you. Thank you so much.

39:45Made by Mammas Hosts: Youth mental health is a complex challenge that requires comprehensive solutions. We must strengthen after-school programmes. We must make digital literacy tools available in our schools. We must work with mental health professionals to support children. And we must empower mentors, educators, and parents to keep kids happy. Learn more about our commitment to finding lasting solutions at empowerourfuturecoalition.com slash solutions. Paid for by the Coalition to Empower Our Future. Hey, it's Howie Mandel, and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my Howie Do It gaming team take on Gilly DeKing and wallow 267's million dollars gaming in an epic Global Gaming League video game showdown.

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41:04Made by Mammas Hosts: If you're a marketer, founder, creator, or investor, you need to understand what it means for your business and where this industry is going next. Subscribe to the Scalable podcast and our newsletter at scalablepod.com.