Friday Q&A: Kid's Nutrition with Performance Canteen

0:02Kate Shilland: Zoe and Georgia will be here in just a moment with Made by Mummers. Once you've finished this episode, you should catch up on You Don't Know You're Born, the parenting podcast from Danny Miller, Brooke Vincent and Wingman as they navigate raising their kids in a world of screens and smart speakers, a far cry from their own upbringing. Each week, they draw on their Coronation Street and Emmerdale roots to share a bit of parenting wisdom in acting up. It's very silly and very funny. Just search You Don't Know You're Born wherever you get your podcasts and queue up the latest episode to play next.

0:41Kate Shilland: When you turn 45, it's your turn to blow many candles and to screen for colon cancer. Use the Cologuard Plus test in the privacy of your home and send it back to obtain your results. Cologuard products are intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Prescription only. See more information at Cologuard.com. Request the Cologuard Plus test from your doctor. For more information in Spanish, visit Cologuard.com slash prueba. ID Tech is more than just the original and most trusted tech camp for kids ages 7 to 17. ID Tech is where kids find their people. The engineering and creating people.

1:20Kate Shilland: The fire-breathing, shell-spinning BattleBots people. The just-as-happy building games as they are playing them people. IDTech offers over 50 epic courses, like Camp Crunch Labs IRL, BattleBots with TakeHomeBots, and more at 75 college campuses across the country. Visit IDTech.com and use code IDTech to save$150 on a week that's guaranteed to be the highlight of your kid's summer. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot.

2:01Kate Shilland: We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts, and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. and they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummies. But for now, George, should we get into it? Joining us on the podcast today, if you struggle with your kids eating the right stuff, just like, well, I was going to say myself and George, but I think this is an area that we do actually differ slightly on, do stick around because today, two experts in all things kids' nutrition, helping parents fuel our sporty, active kids with the right grub.

2:44Kate Shilland: They have got a massive following online and they really, really know their stuff. It's Kate and Fran from Performance Canteen. Hey! Yay! That was a wonderful intro. I'm really excited. Thank you for having us. Welcome to the podcast, guys. Thank you very much. Just for those who don't know about, you know, who you are and your background, do you want to just give us a little bit of insight into how you came about creating your platform and, like, your background, what you do, before we get into the chat? Yeah, sure.

3:10Fran Taylor: So we set up Performance Canteen, what, about maybe three?

3:14Kate Shilland: Four, five.

3:14Fran Taylor: Three, four years ago. And the reason we set up the space, essentially, is because the information around fueling active kids kind of wasn't there. So the overriding kids nutrition message is that public health narrative around more and more kids are obese, like more and more kids are eating too much sugar and too much ultra processed foods. And those messages are really right. but there is a subsection of that population who are highly active and the kind of information around fueling active kids is less well known and actually the risk of under fueling is much greater for those kids than over fueling and there are health risks around that and so we set up performance canteen really to help parents fuel their kids better and to give them confidence and drop the guilt um and know how to fuel active kids because it is a challenge isn't it yeah absolutely

4:15Kate Shilland: and also there is a big lack of good information there's plenty of wrong information plenty of myths there's plenty of things saying never do this only do that and the things we hear sometimes utterly ridiculous but people listen to them yeah so that's we thought we'd try and be the voice of good sensible realistic practical information that actually works and that doesn't mean you have to be perfect like everyone's trying to kind of beat themselves up if they're not doing it just right but actually being a mum's tricky and some days you know something will just do and that's fine it it does annoy me how we've been fed information you know by whoever you know across the years and then you go to the supermarket and you either have to make it from home buy all the ingredients and make it or you end up buying stuff that isn't nutritious you know filling isn't low in sugar it's all been it's all been fed down our throats for the last however long and it does annoy me that that is kind of that's kind of where we started from and I know there's been a movement and a change along the years but actually really I don't think it's been catered to kids for a very long time yeah I think as well it's about like context because the same food isn't appropriate in the same situation so actually it's not really good or bad food it's a good or bad timing of when you eat it right because a sugary food is great if your kid's active is about to go and do football after school or half time in a in a sporting situation brilliant but the sugary foods at breakfast not brilliant so it's kind of understanding when they fit in and letting you know having that confidence in knowing actually there is a good choice for all these things and not to over stress about it yeah because that's the thing there's so much scaremongering so you end up being yeah you end up being like you know i don't know for instance if you've got 10 minutes in the car on the way to swimming after school or whatever.

6:05Kate Shilland: And you think, oh God, what can I give them? And you think, well, I don't know. And then you end up giving them nothing because you think, well, I can't give them a packet of Harry Bros because that's bad and I can't give them this and I can't give them Petit Flu. And then you're like, well, I don't know what's left. That's exactly why we do what we do, I think. Well, not I think, I know, because it is exactly that. And parents are always like, oh, I feel really bad and I can't give them that. And things like, you know, we always say we need to have whole grain bread them we need brown brown sandwiches or brown pasta whatever but actually in that situation just before swimming you want the white bread because it's easier to digest it's not going to give them tummy ache um so it's kind of yeah understanding that situation and I think like Fran said before the biggest risk is giving them nothing so actually that's worse than giving them sweets because if they're going in to sport under fueled they have to spend their energy that they should be spending on health and growing get spent on sport so the consequence becomes actually that energy that should be going to build bones or build muscles or to grow is being out in the swimming pool or on the football pitch.

7:08Kate Shilland: That's so interesting. So we need to make sure that there's enough to go around for everything. We will say like if you think of food as your toolkit and your body's got so many jobs it's trying to do you need the right tools for the right jobs so you've got all those jobs that are for growing and then you've got that job for for school for friendships for socialising and then for sport on top. So talk to us about the myths, Fran, because before we pressed record, we said, you know, it'd be really interesting if we discuss this. And you said, oh, God, there's so many myths when it comes to food.

7:36Kate Shilland: Just give us a little insight into what you hear.

7:38Fran Taylor: Oh, well, everything. I mean, there is so much. So one of the biggest things that we get pushback on is that cereal is terrible.

7:49Kate Shilland: Yes, we hear it a lot.

7:50Fran Taylor: Like cereal, like we had a message on, we did a post about having cereal before bed um and someone said i think he was keto keith which is a an insight into his name shout out to keto keith um was like this is the most evil thing that you can do as a parent is to give your kid cereal and we're like whoa okay coupled with

8:13Kate Shilland: telling fran you don't even know how to eat cereal you don't even know how to eat cereal what do you mean don't know how to eat it there's a video of her eating it it's like you don't even know how to eat cereal shut up so not only are you giving your kids poison you also don't know

8:27Fran Taylor: how to eat totally shades everywhere um but so so cereal is actually really good and it gets so much bad rep and again as kate said earlier there's like and all cereals are fine it's just context so just before like swimming if you're at home and you've got half an hour before they go swimming a bowl of cocoa pops is absolutely fine because it's quick energy that gives them the energy to perform in the pool and to not spend their growing and bone health energy on sport but for breakfast or just before bed a whole grain lower sugar cereal that's fortified gives them extra iron gives them b vitamins you've got the protein from the milk it's a it's a good thing So, yeah.

9:13Fran Taylor: I've never heard anybody say that. I've never heard anybody say that.

9:18Kate Shilland: And that was, have you ever heard anybody say that? Like, in my mind, the messages that I've been told are, if you're playing sport, you need slow releasing, something that's going to fuel them for the sport. So, for example, like your eggs or your, you know, your, so that's really interesting. I'm really interested by that.

9:36Fran Taylor: Sorry, I was going to say that it's timing and type. So the further away you are from exercise, the kind of more whole grain, the less processed it should be. And the closer you get, the kind of more refined and processed and higher sugar. So it's so as Kate said, there's no good or bad. Like food is food. It's not good. It's not bad. It's just about kind of quantity and timing. And I think that's an important thing because we have so much guilt as parents. Yeah. Like we feel guilty. You know, we're going to be judged. like your whole podcast is about non-judgmental advice but as a parent you know and food is an emotive subject so you're going to be judged whether you give them processed food whether you only cook you know whole whole food and you cook everything from scratch you'll either be called lazy like or an almond mum yeah so you might as well do what works for you and what's right for you and you can do that healthily either way yeah also I think in terms of your

10:38Kate Shilland: relationship with the kids if they know oh yeah cool I can have Coco Pops before football it takes some of those battles away because I think that's some of the things that we hear a lot of as well it's like oh thank you like you've kind of eased that process a bit at home because yeah if your kids are being told no you can't have that the whole time they're just going to want it more so if it's like actually yeah cool that's great have your Coco Pops in have your sweets for during training and then it's easier to negotiate that okay then for your meal times this is what you have built your body.

11:08Kate Shilland: We'll be right back after this short break.

11:16Kate Shilland: When you turn 45, it's your turn to blow many candles and to screen for colon cancer. Use the Cologuard Plus test in the privacy of your home and send it back to obtain your results. Cologuard products are intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Prescription only. See more information at Cologuard.com. Request the Cologuard Plus test from your doctor. For more information in Spanish, visit Cologuard.com slash prueba. IDTech is more than just the original and most trusted tech camp for kids ages 7 to 17. IDTech is where kids find their people. The engineering and creating people.

11:54Kate Shilland: The fire breathing, shell spinning, battle bots people. The just as happy building games as they are playing them people. ID Tech offers over 50 epic courses like Camp Crunch Labs IRL, BattleBots with TakeHomeBots, and more at 75 college campuses across the country. Visit IDTech.com and use code IDTech to save$150 on a week that's guaranteed to be the highlight of your kid's summer.

12:24Kate Shilland: Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? so we've got a question here I'll kick us off healthy breakfast ideas for school days cool so this is where the coca pops aren't the great idea because you want the whole grain you want the slow release because it's got to then fuel them throughout that morning till they get to break time if they're having the coca pops it'll probably fuel them until they get into the classroom and then they're crashing so something that's slow release whole grain so you're sort of more like if it's cereals more like your sort of shreddies or weatabix but ideally you want a source of protein there because that kind of keeps them fuller for longer.

12:59Kate Shilland: So like Greek yogurt is great. So yogurt, granola, some fruit. We always try and say, like, try and include a source of carbs, like complex carbs, a source of protein, a source of healthy fat and some colour. If you think of like those four things that you're trying to tick off each meal, that kind of gives you a nice tick list. So Greek yogurt, granola, fruit and some nuts or peanut butter on top. Or like toast, peanut butter, banana. Yeah, nice. It's beige a colour. Beige a colour? Banana. I'm talking to you.

13:32Fran Taylor: It's beige a colour.

13:34Kate Shilland: Banana, he can have it blended in a smoothie.

13:37Fran Taylor: And things like actually avocado in a smoothie. If you bang an avocado or half an avocado in a smoothie, it tastes creamy, but you can't really taste the avocado. You can smell it. He gets his nose in like a wine connoisseur. It's like a bloodhound.

13:53Kate Shilland: Is he really sporty though? really sporty football and rugby so if you kind of look at okay who's his favourite player and look at what they're eating does that help does that help him get him to watch Harlan's YouTube actually maybe don't why it'll cost you a fortune because my son watches his YouTube and then now he's like is this steak grass fed is this milk raw and I'm like oh this went too far but yeah things like that are quite a good to go okay this is what they're doing if you want to you know if that's your goal if you want to be a footballer yeah then food helps you get closer to that goal so my previous i was um head of nutrition for nine seasons at the palace football academy wow um and that was one of the biggest hooks to help kids eat better is to be like okay you don't compare yourself to others but it's like this is where you're aiming for food can help you get closer to that goal or further away so you look at okay what are your role models eating and that is kind of an encouragement to say right let's just add one extra thing on your plate okay there are loads of chefs and stuff on instagram and tiktok that i get my son to watch like i know ruben diaz's private chef and you watch what he eats and it is really good okay i'm gonna do that with you later i mean you might stitch yourself up again because you might be getting where's our private chef all sorts of stuff but um it's right here with the cleaner.

15:21Kate Shilland: And the chauffeur. Yeah, the chauffeur. And have a good breakfast. It's like, it's so easy because again, time is an issue in the morning, isn't it? A tortilla wrap spread with peanut butter and a banana rolled in the middle. It's portable but then again, you've got your carbs protein, a bit of protein, healthy fat. If you have a glass of milk with it, it's quite nice and complete. We're like, we're doing omelette. He's just started to eat eggs the last few years because he was allergic to them before so now we're doing cheese omelets with smoked salmon and so like I can get him to eat that and if he has that every day I'm okay yeah I do eggy bread because my kids won't eat eggs and it really upsets me they're your favorite meal they're your favorite food I know what about pancakes yeah I make pancakes yeah yeah make so if you have pancakes yogurt fruit and if you crack a couple an extra egg

16:07Fran Taylor: into it and then just you could just add a little bit more in yeah okay it's just sometimes it's those little tweaks that can make the difference.

16:16Kate Shilland: Protein is the biggest thing that kids generally miss out on in breakfast. Do you know what I also started doing? Because my daughter, like, she just doesn't eat. It's not like she's fussy. She just doesn't eat a lot and she's really active. She's tiny. So she's, like, I looked, I was putting her weight in. We're going skiing, like, for Easter and, you know, for when you're hiring skis. And I was like, oh, she literally weighs, like, what, a two-year-old weighs? And she's six. It is. Oh, George. I know. Bless her. she doesn't look like really thin but she's so she literally weighs nothing what sport does she do so she oh god like she has lots of dancing gymnastics swimming like everything she's every night doing something but i now just don't think about different foods for different times of the day so like if she wants hummus and pita for breakfast i'm like yeah crap on yeah great whatever yeah have steak for breakfast as long as grassroot wagyu beef for breakfast or like pasta for breakfast yeah if it's going to be hard to eat well later in the day if they're reactive but if you front load it and have a really big breakfast if they can stomach that yeah it's kind of quite like breaking that rule like thinking it's like you know but I think that's I think that's quite an interesting concept that actually we're sort of passing on the rules that we grew up with and it just goes generation to generation but maybe we can see it in a different way and maybe that's a healthier way like how many people do we know I know loads from my generation who've got hang-ups about food that sort of You will stay at the table and eat until you finish.

17:44Kate Shilland: I used to stuff stuff in my blazer pocket at school because I was so, it was so horrible and her portions were too big. I didn't like it.

17:50Fran Taylor: And I think that whole thing, I think that's the thing is like, it's, we can question what information we're getting. And that is whether that's from our parents or also what we see online is, is that person telling me that and it's benefiting me? And if it's not, then it's a chance to say, no, it's not going to work for me. So with your daughter, for example, you know, because we we know active kids, you know, their appetite varies massively and some people can eat huge amounts and others just don't have those same hunger cues. And so what you would do with one child will be different from what you do with another.

18:28Fran Taylor: So that kind of little and often and that kind of grazing with small appetites is good. So like bedtime snacks are really great. So like a bowl of cereal before bed would be a really good thing. or you could do a smoothie and add peanut butter in. Yeah. Because you want, I guess for your daughter, you want to maximize the amount of energy in the same volume of food. So go full fat milk, not semi-skimmed. Use oil liberally when you're like putting on vegetable, you know, putting on top of vegetables or butter. Add peanut butter where you can. You know, those things add in like, because fat is a concentrated source of energy and that isn't a kind of potentially a good thing to do.

19:12Kate Shilland: Yeah, I think as well sometimes, sorry, that what we see is that a lot of parents come with their own, like misinformation that they've grown up with, like you're saying. And sometimes it's quite horrifying to think, well, that is what I'm giving my child that much. And so sometimes it's sort of trying to get your head around, you know, some active kids need up to sort of 6 ,000 calories in a day. But if you've ever counted your calories or tried to restrict, you think, oh, my goodness, that is so much and you kind of almost don't want to give them that much sometimes or often we hear you wonder where that will go as well because I have the opposite with my son like he eats a disgusting amount of food to me brilliant amount of food brilliant amount of food because he's growing and he needs it this is awful I don't say it but in my mind why do you think it's awful because I'm like this is not normal but if you think it's not normal it is normal to grow and to thrive then it's sort of reframing it a bit.

20:10Kate Shilland: Or eating a kilo of blueberries after school. I mean, shut up, show off. It's like on the next, you know what I mean? But he'd do the same with whatever it is, minstrels. His pees blue. Like anything.

20:25Fran Taylor: But he's growing and active and hungry. And I think sometimes we don't honour our kids' hunger as much as we should do. So, you know, their bodies are quite good at telling them if they need to eat. I mean, obviously your daughter, you know, probably needs to eat more and hasn't got that thing. But if they're hungry, I mean, we always say, don't we, if they're hungry, if they say they're hungry, they probably are. So feed them.

20:52Kate Shilland: And also, you know, we always say, when do we turn into our own mums? You say, you can't still be hungry or you'll ruin your dinner. You can't have that. Actually, they can still be hungry and they probably won't ruin their dinner. And or you say, you can't still be hungry. You've just eaten or it's bedtime. Actually, we had quite a few parents saying, oh, right, so when they say they're hungry for bed and we say, no, you're just tired, go to bed. They probably are hungry. And absolutely, because bedtime's when they grow and repair and recoup from all the effort they've done in the day. So they go to bed hungry.

21:20Kate Shilland: It's hard to then actually get full restorative sleep. Kit will have his dinner. Maybe we'll eat at 6.30, but like quarter to eight, he'll then have two Reese's Bix and a whole meal toast with peanut butter. He has that basically every night. and he still wakes up when he's still tired when he wakes up and he's still tired because he's had another 12 hours so I definitely built that in and that's definitely stopped him sleepwalking as well so much because he was walking the whole every night

21:46Fran Taylor: yeah and I think that's the thing it's like that sleep is connected to how much you know if you're well fuelled you'll probably sleep better as if you're not your sleep will be interrupted so that's kind of important as well

21:59Kate Shilland: let's go to another question sorry no I know because we're so into it Is it okay to give kids homemade snacks and smoothies with protein powder in? I was going to ask this. Yeah. Protein powders. Depending on what age the kids, we would generally say protein powders, there's only one that's kind of designed and batch tested for safety for kids. Which one? Which is called Youth Support Nutrition. It's called Protein. But just switch for Greek yogurt because it's a good source of calcium as well and it's the same amount of protein. and a lot of the protein powders, you don't know what else is in them and they're not particularly designed for kids.

22:39Kate Shilland: So, yeah, we would say switch to Greek yogurt as your protein source in a smoothie for kids. If your smoothie, sorry to interrupt, because Kit will say, oh, yeah, Daddy has protein shake, can you make me one? So I have to use a powder and I've just been giving him recently another one that I use, but then I check the ingredients and I was like, oh, I'm not sure. So should I get that protein? One that's specifically designed for kids. We can give it a show after. Because that has been tested. And it's also enriched with some of the things that kids have additional needs for, like your calcium for your bones and your iron as well.

23:16Kate Shilland: So, yes. But typically, as a rule, we would say try and stick to kind of real food sources. Yeah. I found one recently, and it's from Supernova Living. they're like quite a small brand and they've just started a kid's powder it's not necessarily a protein powder but it's like chocolate like chocolate flavor and I've started making Gigi a hot chocolate with that in the evenings it's like full fat milk and this yeah and it does taste like hot chocolate and it is clean but is I don't know how many yeah I don't know yeah sometimes if it encourage is a way to encourage them to eat more if if they're not going to eat enough without that then that can be a useful addition um but it's just be sort of mindful of what is in it and those things aren't designed for kids or marketed for kids but obviously yeah kids do like like you said if kit sees his dad having it that can be appealing yeah um sorry sorry you go no i was just gonna can we could we just because obviously we've spoken about um full fat milk could we bust the myth around the the alternative milks and the full fat milk and your thoughts on those because i know lots of people listening like us we only have oat milk in the house now i'm reading all this stuff yeah oh god is it the right thing to do so yeah so

24:30Fran Taylor: alternative milks um if you either don't like um dairy or from because you're a vegan or from an allergy point of view um as long as they're fortified they provide um calcium and they provide iodine and the things that you know milk from dairy provides the only thing with alternative milks is it which is a consideration is the protein content because milk can be quite a good source of protein and it can get extra protein into kids whereas an oat milk for example has a lower protein content so soya is equivalent to dairy in terms of its protein content and pea as well like a split you know those pea milks they're also higher in protein so that would be a consideration just um in terms of those but i mean yes they are made with uh like emulsifiers and things like that but like if you were just to make your own alternative milk make your own like blend it up blend up almonds and water and stuff like that which you look at me look at you because people are like oh I don't have alternative or I make my own now because the alternatives have got like different stuff in it but actually then you're not getting all the benefits of the kind of calcium and stuff like that so um that's that's just a consideration but if we're drinking dairy yeah you you suggest full fat for the kids for the kids yeah it's it's just again it's like getting as much energy as you can in in a small space okay so it's got more calories um than semi-skimmed but okay right right and the same would go for your yogurts as well

26:27Kate Shilland: yeah yeah yeah definitely yeah i like they just taste better anyway um so my daughter isn't a huge fan of meat husband is ideas please both packed in protein god i feel like i've sent this so if you've got a split family yeah yeah that's so you know one one loves meat one doesn't one

26:47Fran Taylor: well it's it depends on how like you know do you want to cook two meals i guess not and if you don't want to cook two meals then how can you kind of satisfy both things so one idea is to make the meat go further by bulking out things like a bolognese with lentils so you're you've got some meat in there but you've got some plant-based protein in there as well um would be a good idea um if your husband likes meat maybe you could just get him to cook his own dinner that would be that would be a very good idea absolutely um but maybe to try to to be more open to trying stuff because we know plant-based proteins have loads of health benefits and fiber and we know fiber most people don't eat enough fiber so things like tofu especially those marinated tofus like it's called like there's a brand called tofu and it's got like teriyaki marinated and stuff and it just tastes so much nicer so you could try doing things like that

27:52Kate Shilland: or like egg-based dishes or they're great as well as protein or fish i don't know if they both eat fish love that's a great option for upping the protein content yeah um also i find it's quite easy to do if you're making a meal and your husband loves me just do a mistake as well just just cook a steak it takes three minutes or he could 100 if it's your turn to cook dinner then you could do a steak for dogs or just yeah just because yeah because we prefer to eat fish yeah yeah like yeah i mean i god i have this all the time gg goes through not eating any meat at and I've got like Axel who only wants to eat meat and like yeah wagyu um and I have to try and balance it but I now what I do say I'm doing like a rice on the side I'll put like chickpeas or beans in with that rice so then there's not so much pressure on her to eat the chicken or you know like whatever that goes with it I mean she will like last night she just ate the chicken thigh and I was like, oh, okay.

28:51Kate Shilland: What did you do for dinner last night? What did I do? I did two, oh no, because you're going to take, no, actually no, this was very simple. No, this was actually quite simple for me on a Sunday. I just did chicken thighs on the table. Yeah, lovely. Then a really nice salad with like, I had peppers, edamames, feta, spinach, rocket, sweet potato in there as well. Who eats it? Who's eating that? Oh, everyone. Bye. Bye. Bye. Last week, not. No. You know, like, last week, Gigi would not have eaten that. But this week, she did. Yeah, you just keep putting it down. You're such a good cook on you. But in the middle, I do find, like what you said before.

29:31Kate Shilland: If you've got the chance for them to help yourself. Quite often, because of the difference in the kids' appetites, I will just do, like, salmon on the table, some sort of rice or potato or something, and then, like, two different salad-y options. I usually put sweet corn on the side because I know someone's going to eat sweet corn. Yeah, okay, I do that as well. And then I do think, oh, and pomegranate. Like they like everyone. And that's so good. Also like there may be some like seeds on the top.

29:59Fran Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that thing that we were saying about food and control is if you give them the choice and you put stuff on the table, but then they control what goes on their plate, they're still being exposed to different foods. And they're still like you are their biggest role model. So if you're eating well and you're eating a variety, they see that. But then they control what goes in their mouth. And I think food can be, with kids, a lot of control. And it's one area in their lives that they can exert control. Only one you can, isn't it? Even as adults. Yeah, so you can have that control as a child to dictate what goes in your mouth.

30:40Fran Taylor: so allowing that and giving them a sense of that maybe not straight away but in turn like in time sorry gives them you know a chance to to be more controlled but also to then

30:53Kate Shilland: maybe experiment a little bit more yeah it's just I find it hard when I do it and one week she like yesterday she ate and I was like oh this is brilliant me and James and then and then after I have another day and do exactly the same meal and then she won't eat anything and I'm like oh so she then eat later like will she then make up for it by having the she does and it's actually awful she'll like I'll find things in her bedroom like I'll find like bread in her bedroom so she's gone upstairs she goes upstairs to eat yeah but I don't know why she has a phobia about eating in front of people but no because they're normal like But she just eats around the table.

31:34Kate Shilland: I don't know. I really don't know. And I've really, I mean, God, I used to let her eat freaking Haribo's at 7 o 'clock in the morning. I've never said to her, don't eat that. I don't know. I really don't know. You also used to froth her milk for her. Do you remember she'd only have hot, frothy milk in her bottle? Yeah. No, no, I'm not joking. Not joking. I'm not joking. I love that. I used to froth her milk. Jordan's like a barista. When we went on holiday, I had to take a frother with me. right and like honestly when i look designs like a leaf yeah she's not got there yet but let's let's just see let's just see she drinks a peppermint tea now yeah i mean does she still drink milk no but maybe she should maybe yeah just thinking if her appetite isn't huge that's so such a good especially if she's really active before bed because milk's got a protein casein protein that's like slow release and it helps your body recover overnight yeah so if she's active you can get back your front get your front bring back like core memories for her yeah yeah yeah but I think almost like hard I know it's easier said than done but try not to overstress it because if she's eating what I think then we create more anxiety around it and then they pick up on that so I think sometimes and sometimes our own appetite's different different days depending how busy you are and sometimes it's the next day if you've been busy the day before because exercise does dampen your appetite hormones so sometimes the next day you're not doing much but you might be more hungry because you're kind of compensating from the day before yeah so it's kind of like as long as there's always food available and i think the worst thing we can do is to say no is restrict it oh yeah so never do that that's where you get the bigger problem so i think if she's eating and it's in her bedroom like you know sort of i don't i'd literally just leave it i'm like whatever you handle it so well George.

33:26Kate Shilland: No but it is quite worrying especially when it's confronting and they get on the scales and you're like this is awful. Then you get the other end. Sorry. I was going sorry when they're a bit older and they're like oh there's we're going to do this diet I'm finding that like all the stuff that they can then get bombarded with because I guess your kids are almost like well this is the 12 year olds or not. Well as soon as they get on social media and that's a big conversation time about okay how do you keep yourself around that? How do you become a critical thinker about actually I mean it's not education it's use it for entertainment but it's these people do not know you yes they have no right to tell you how to eat or what to cut out or all of that because everything you hear is about what not to eat but nutrition is about what you need to eat and what

34:09Fran Taylor: you need to include and what you need to build yeah yeah and I think kind of as parents as well we are as vulnerable to that information ourselves um you know and as 40 somethings that we are you know you you got you get shown stuff on social media about this is terrible or eat this and don't eat that and it's you know we need to apply that critical thinking ourselves it's like is this right for me and is this relevant and why are they are they doing this for my benefit are they doing

34:38Kate Shilland: it for their benefit you know that algorithm of like then you're bombarded with yeah mine's all collagen and menopause we'll be right back after this short break

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36:04Kate Shilland: Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? I remember when I started out in telly and I was 22 years old, nobody knew it. I was very, very quickly thrown into like a horrible eating disorder. and that hit me in my entire 20s but I sort of hid it for such a long time this was before social media but we had things like heat magazine and we had things like you know and I remember them coming to me and being like we'd love to talk to you about what you ate in a day and obviously I was trying to get publicity and grow my career and stuff and I was like yeah yeah great great hiding the fact that I had an eating disorder and it's like when I wrote it down on paper and sent it across to the editor it was like sorry what you know this is what you're eating and it was so shameful but I think my point is is like it's always been there you know everybody is like oh yeah how do you get a body like that what are you eating it's it's about the fuel that we put in our body is a vehicle if we're not fueling it in the right way we're gonna have problems and it's the same for our kids giving them the understanding that actually it's not restricting that and restricting that it's like how do we nurture you properly with the food you know it's like so back Back in the 90s or whatever, and we were teenagers.

37:12Kate Shilland: Well, no, actually, 80. No, no, no. No, no, 90s? Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels. Oh, my God, yeah. So we're saying that. It's like actually should be nothing tastes as good as well-performed feels, like because, or well-fueled feels. Because it does feel amazing. And actually, yeah, we don't want to be cutting things out. We want to be adding things in and nourishing our bodies. But it's really hard when everyone's telling you otherwise. And when we did some stuff with some performing arts students and looking at, it's like word association. and what do you think of when you think about food?

37:40Kate Shilland: They're all saying weight. They're all saying about body, but not about taste or nourishment or enjoyment. Because there's so many reasons we eat. It's not just for fuel. It's sociable. It's cultural. It's celebratory. So those are things that we want to kind of try and get the kids thinking about as well. But actually, the messages we hear are kind of quite negative, aren't they? Are we so panicked because of the way that we were brought up with food? Is that why we're so panicked?

38:04Fran Taylor: Yeah, I think food is just food is a highly emotive subject and people have everyone eats. So everyone's got an opinion on how to eat and what's right for you may be completely different from someone else. And I think food is, you know, it is it just is a bit of a touch point to creating uncomfortable feelings with a lot of people. So I think I think there's a lot of things. I think it's how our parents viewed, you know, how we were brought up, what our parents' views are on food, what our parents' views are on weight and how that came across, what we're exposed to in the media, what our friends are exposed to.

38:46Fran Taylor: All of those things are kind of add into what we do around food and also then how we feed our kids. as we always say as well it's like are you feeding your sporty kid like the like a teenager or like a sporty child or are you feeding them like a 40 something year old because often how we feed our kids is how we feed ourselves and the information that we get right but you know as a 40 something menopausal woman my needs are completely different to my teenage daughter who does lots of exercise What a good point. That is such a good point.

39:23Kate Shilland: We do get a lot of mums go, oh, yes, oops. I'm doing that, I think. Yeah, because there is that whole thing as well. Like my nieces are like 13, 14, that kind of age. And their mums are saying, you know, I don't know what to do because on the way home from school, they're all going to the chip shop. And I've seen, you know, like they're all starting to put on weight and I don't know how to have that conversation. and there is that whole thing going on as well where they've been at primary school and they might you know get freedom don't they get you know whatever the school meal is and you know that it's never going to be that much they're usually starving after or you do them a packed lunch and then they go to secondary school and they can pick you know whatever they want for lunch and then they've got some money in their pocket on the way home they can go to the chip shop but how do you have like or do you just not it's i think just not yeah because they're eating well at home and you've given them sort of a good relationship with food like you don't want them to miss out like if your friends are doing that you don't want them to be the one that thinks I can't do that because a it's not kind of won't go down well at home or if they're anxious about you'd rather your kid be confident and comfortable to go and eat the chips rather than think oh I don't want to eat those because I'm going to put on weight so it's about kind of and if they're active and also at that age often you store a bit of weight because you proceed to growth spurt and when you're young your weight should only go in one direction um so i think it's encourage encourage that and go to the chip shop after school but eat some vegetables when you get home yeah and keep active make sure you're active yeah that's the thing it's not just food like food and nutrition we will say actually the three like performance triangle so food nutrition or training um nutrition and rest are the three things that you want to that all equally important so if you're doing all of those things if you're eating well and moving well and resting well then you're going to thrive Is there an argument to say rather than focusing on the weight because I know how damaging it is when a parent comments on the fact that you've gained weight you destroyed me not her fault but that's what happened that was the reality of my situation I would never turn around to any of my kids and comment on their weight or comment that they had love handles so rather than saying you know oh gosh you're putting weight on Can we have a chat about, you know, your nutrition and how you're feeling about it and try and open up the conversation?

41:44Fran Taylor: Yeah, I think it's like food can get you closer to, you know, your goals or further away from them. And also, you know, our minds are growing just as much as our bodies and how our relationship with food doesn't just impact our body, impacts our mind. And I think having a conversation about weight isn't particularly helpful. You can have a conversation around health or around providing you the right energy at the right time. But the reality is if if you've got a good, you know, healthy relationship with food at home and you give them variety and they see you cooking sometimes, but they also see you relax sometimes.

42:29Fran Taylor: yeah the the chances are that they're probably they'll go through a period where they will you know eat differently because they're with their friends and that's totally cool but in time they'll probably come around to eating well being adjusted and that's more important than a period of time where they might not eat as well yeah I think the key thing with that is the

42:53Kate Shilland: educational part of it because we've got our intelligent part of our brain and our emotional part of our brain and that one often wins when it comes to food and we get rational and we kind of think kind of negative things about ourselves so if you're if you're arming your intelligent part of your brain with understanding of okay this food is what that does for my body and this is why i need it because we think that should be taught in schools from reception i completely agree with you because you build your body from the food you put in it your body's like your home you've got to live in it forever and you get one chance to build it so you should build it right and understand how.

43:25Kate Shilland: So if that's taught on the school curriculum, I think that would be really helpful because it helps understand the health element and then you kind of feel more confident to make those choices. Yeah. No, 100%. George, we've probably only got time for one more question. I can't believe it, but just... Then what should we do? I know. Oh, my gosh. Should we do some after-school snacks or snacks? There's quite a lot about after-school snacks before main family dinner, snacks on the go but aren't messy. filling and nutritious something sweet and small every day that isn't bad what could we send them into school with or have after school or have before sport or whatever yeah so i i think again

44:02Fran Taylor: it comes down to what's right for you what's right for your family if you've got the chance to make um you know homemade granola bars absolutely brilliant but if you don't then a shop bottle version can be just as you know which ones do you like effective um i quite like like a like those stoats oat bars are quite good. Things like baby bells are great because baby bells and a packet of pretzels, really good. Popcorn is good also. Popcorn, yeah, something like that. But yeah, like those squeezy yogurts, pouches.

44:37Kate Shilland: Oh, yeah. They're really good because they have all different flavors now. I love sorries. Do you? Loads of butter. Let's be honest, anything's just a vessel for butter, isn't it? top cross buns a brilliant pre-sport snack yeah um but you're something like the baby like france said or the squeeze of yogurts and there's a protein it's like you've seen or like um energy balls that you just make yourself yeah you have got well they take

44:58Fran Taylor: five minutes don't they but if you can kind of as kate was saying earlier that kind of carb color protein and healthy fat if you can get some of those like more than one of those things into a snack it helps to kind of give you a bit more sustained energy so like baby bells and pretzel for example is protein and carbs and if you would have a satsuma alongside it that would be a bit of color as well so just like how you can maybe build up yeah or cereals like back to where we started

45:25Kate Shilland: a bowl of cereal the brilliant snack um yeah and then if you had some fruit and some nuts on top

45:31Fran Taylor: for example even better yeah um and also like those as Kate was saying like a wrap with peanut butter and banana you know rolled up in the car really portable and not messy yeah and you don't

45:43Kate Shilland: have to clean your car as much also your smoothies are good and again i think a lot of people say oh but they're full of sugar yeah actually sugar isn't the enemy or we also like it's the energy not the enemy and actually they need energy they're they're particularly your kids ages their brains are so hungry your brains use more energy than any other part of your body it's the right sugar isn't it so grumpy yeah and it's the right time as well so when they come out of school often mood is low so it's like you quickly get something into them get something to yourself because so your mood is also good yeah we hear a lot of mum we had a couple of mums last week saying oh he's actually really quite a nice boy yeah and now he's eating he's actually quite nice and we have nice conversations after school makes sense though doesn't it yeah because yeah because we get it's hard to be happy if you're hungry yeah everybody does yeah and we yeah we always say normal you're meant to that's your brain saying like feed me smoked salmon

46:37Fran Taylor: smoked salmon

46:38Kate Shilland: eat smoked salmon guys it's very big she had a wing it's the classroom out but I sneak it into a snack bowl

46:43Fran Taylor: oh my god sushi that's it sushi is a great thing but also I think kind of about feeding ourselves as well we always say like let your kids see you eat kind of eat well and eat often because you are still you will always be their biggest role model around food and so if they see you eating enough and eating regularly and eating well then they're more likely to model that as well. Proud and K everyone! Yay!

47:35Kate Shilland: Cologuard products are intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Prescription only. See more information at Cologuard.com. Request a Cologuard Plus test from your doctor. For more information in Spanish, visit Cologuard.com slash prueba.