Friday Q&A: Mel Johnson on Solo Parenthood

0:02Zoe and Georgia will be here in just a moment with Made by Mammas. Once you've finished this episode, you should catch up on You Don't Know You're Born, the parenting podcast from Danny Miller, Brooke Vincent and Wingman as they navigate raising their kids in a world of screens and smart speakers, a far cry from their own upbringing. Each week, they draw on their Coronation Street and Emmerdale roots to share a bit of parenting wisdom in acting up. It's very silly and very funny. Just search You Don't Know You're Born wherever you get your podcasts and queue up the latest episode to play next.

0:50Pineapples, mangoes, and kiwis at their juiciest. Grill up fresh seafood paired with tropical fruit marinades. Or grab and enjoy the spicy Hawaiian pizza, huli huli chicken, and more. Finish with a sweet slice of mango yuzu chantilly cake. Savor the tropics and save at Whole Foods Market. Ready for the best summer ever? ID Tech is the original and most trusted tech camp for kids, ages 7 to 17. offering over 50 epic courses like Camp Crunch Labs IRL, BattleBots with TakeHomeBots, AI and Machine Learning, and more. Camps are all about high-energy fun, new friends, trusted instructors, and exclusive tech partnerships.

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2:14and they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummies. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hello and welcome to Friday's episode of the podcast. A really, really brilliant conversation ahead for you guys today. And somebody who is very passionate, I think is a good word, about what she's been through her journey and helping other parents. coach, speaker, advocate doing solo parenting her way. It's Mel Johnson from The Stalk and Eye. Yay! How are you? Really good, thank you. Thanks for making the trek down from Southport.

2:51Southport. Yeah, you're welcome. Pleased to be here. Really great to have you on. Just like Zoe obviously gave a little intro there, but just for those who don't know you, do you want to just give us a little bit of background on, you know, how you came to set up The Stalk and Eye and a bit bit about your story? Yeah so if I start with I always thought I was going to follow the traditional path so I thought I'd meet somebody get married and have children together to be honest I didn't really think much about it I just assumed that's what happened because that seems to be what happens for everybody.

3:23When I was 29 I'd been in a relationship for seven years and unexpectedly from my side, at least that ended and 29, such an awful time for a relationship to end. Cause like a couple of months later, it's going to be my 30th. And I thought, Oh my God. So I was grieving the end of the relationship, but to be honest, I was thinking, what does this mean for having children? But I thought, no worries. I've got time. I'll just sort of start again, meet somebody else. but at that time I'd never tried internet dating so I was optimistic and when I tried internet dating I thought oh hang on this might be harder than I thought so I really tried you know I went on so many first dates but I just I just didn't meet anybody that I connected with or I clicked with and so when I was 37 I thought if I don't do something I might miss out on becoming a mum and I just thought I just really don't want to imagine the idea of missing out um and I suppose in my mind I thought if if I don't meet anybody then I'll just use a sperm donor and do it on my own but if I'm honest I never really thought that that was going to happen I just assumed that I'd meet someone I was almost like trying to reassure myself that there was an option if it didn't happen never really thinking that's what I was going to have to do and I thought well I'll just give myself six more months I'll just give myself six more months but six months kept coming and going and I still wasn't meeting anyone and when I was 37 I thought the fear of missing out altogether became greater than the fear of doing it on my own so I just thought I'm gonna go for it but that at that point I didn't know a single person who'd done it on their own there was no one in the media who'd done it on their own I just didn't have anyone to look at to think Like, what does this even look like?

5:18So I thought, I phoned a fertility clinic. They said, come down. And I just started the process. And that's basically how it all started. Wow. What was it like making that decision to say, actually, none of these dates are going to work out. I'm going to go for this. Yeah. I think, you know, people say to single people, oh, you're too picky. And it's really irritating. I can confirm, embarrassingly, that was not the case. I would have accepted any scenario because I wanted a child so badly and I wanted to do it in the traditional way. I really definitely think it wasn't that I was being picky.

5:58But I do think that the people I dated could see that we weren't compatible, where I was almost like willing to overlook that because I just wanted it so badly. and so in hindsight now I'm so grateful that it happened this way because it's only looking back that I thought it'll be so much harder parenting with a partner that wasn't the right partner than it is doing it on my own so it it just took me so long I just had the fairy tale you know I definitely watched too many rom-coms when I was growing up and I just thought that that was the only way that I was going to be happy and it just took me ages.

6:38And in the rom-coms they all look like Matthew McCartney. Yeah I know and you fall in love instantly. Yeah there's this amazing story and there are no alternatives that was literally the ending of every single happily ever after so it just it was hard to make the decision it took me I would say probably about three years and and it was the only time I actually made the decision was when I thought I've just not got any six months left because you just don't know do you I might have but you just don't know and I just didn't want to risk it so how do people you know around you react when you said that's what you were going to do because I feel like now with social media and stuff it's a bit more normal and like you've maybe heard of somebody but like you said you had nobody to look to to be honest all my friends and my family were so supportive because they were like yes this the plan a didn't work that route of dating hasn't gone to plan um and they just knew how much I wanted to have a baby so they were all really supportive now what we're going to do today what we've done today is open it up to our listeners of the podcast and the guys that follow us on instagram and I guess really because in a way it is quite not quite niche but like you said there wasn't anybody in the public eye that was going out for a sperm we don't we don't really hear it that much do we actually a friend of mine has done it in the last couple of years but what we thought we'd do today is kind of talk around solo parenting and how you manage that.

8:01And actually, I know it is slightly different, but lots of my friends whose husbands or wives work in the city, they're up and out at 6 a.m. They're home after the kids have gone to bed the majority of the time. They're doing it on their own as well. So we're going to sort of broaden the subject slightly because I know that you coach, you know, solo parents and making that choice and how to do it. So, George, do you want to kick this off? Let's kick off with this question from a listener. I'm a solo mum and Father's Day always feels like a minefield. How can I talk to my child about it in a way that feels honest, but not heavy?

8:32That's a great question. So how I talk to my daughter about it is from birth, I explained to her how she was conceived with real pride and confidence and openness. So it's a story with no shame attached to it. And she absolutely understands much younger, probably than most kids, how she was conceived. And as she's grown older, I've just explained in different words exactly what that looks like. And so what we really focus on is who is in our family, not anybody that's missing from our family. And if you ask her to say who's in your family, she's, you know, she's like granny, granddad, Jovi and Nirvana, our cats, and then some of our friends.

9:11So she'll list off all the people in our family. And then for Father's Day, I just say, you know, do you want to celebrate Father's Day? Is there anyone you'd like to make a card for? I talk to the school about it and just say, just make sure she's asked who she wants to do a card for. and she just makes a card for granddad um but if there wasn't a granddad on the scene it would be she could always make one for me she never chooses to do that but um you just ask her and if she doesn't want to celebrate it that's also fine just totally up to her how beautiful how amazing because that's that's the purest form of communication why are we trying to dress it up or give it a different name let's talk to them about it they're so so much more emotionally sorted and mature than i think we give them credit for yeah and have there been any scenarios where like mates at school or you know there's been questions and your daughters felt awkward or you have or you haven't known how to navigate it or you wish that their parents had known how to navigate it yeah do you know it starts earlier than you'd imagine so when my daughter was three she was at nursery and she came home and she said mommy one of my friends is saying that I have to have a daddy but I haven't got a daddy and I've told her but she says I have to um so the next say when I went to pick her up I just pulled the mum to the side and said actually I think they've had a chat about having a daddy and Daisy actually hasn't got a dad in her life because she's donor conceived and the mum said oh right no worries let me speak to my child you know what sort of things do you say I've got books that I can give to explain so just talking to the parents to help educate the children and then in the school like the family books just saying you know there's all different shapes and sizes of family no right or wrong better or worse just different and helping them educate on that brilliant i love that we'll be right back after this short break

11:03save on tropical flavors at whole foods market during the savor the tropics event with yellow sales signs highlighting seasonal finds throughout the store the produce section is bursting with pineapples, mangoes, and kiwis at their juiciest. Grill up fresh seafood paired with tropical fruit marinades or grab and enjoy the spicy Hawaiian pizza, huli huli chicken, and more. Finish with a sweet slice of mango yuzu chantilly cake. Savor the tropics and save at Whole Foods Market. ID Tech is more than just the original and most trusted tech camp for kids ages 7 to 17. ID Tech is where kids find their people, the engineering and creating people, the fire breathing, shell spinning BattleBots people.

11:46The just as happy building games as they are playing them people. IDTech offers over 50 epic courses like Camp Crunch Labs IRL, BattleBots with Take Home Bots, and more at 75 college campuses across the country. Visit IDTech.com and use code IDTech to save$150 on a week that's guaranteed to be the highlight of your kid's summer.

12:14Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? My child has started asking why they don't have a dad at home. Like some of their friends, what's the best way? I guess we've kind of covered that. What's the best way to answer without overcomplicating things? And I think you've said, you know, really having those open and honest conversations. Yeah, and there's really good books that you can use. And I always find a book just gives you a good structure to start off with. And then you almost, I like to freestyle a bit and add a bit of flavour to the story. So I always say, mummy couldn't find anyone good enough to be your daddy.

12:44And you need, you can say a sperm and an egg, or some people like to say seed. I say, you need a sperm and an egg to make a baby. Mummy had an egg and we had to get some sperm from a donor. And then the doctor put those together and that's how you were created. And, you know, that's what she's always known. Yeah. We say love seed. Love seed. Oh! I'm not sure why, actually. sometimes not that loving is it but no no love seed I don't know but then the questions are now sort of coming around how does the love seed find the egg and we are now I just I don't know what the right time is to kind of say well daddy puts his penis near me not just near me but you know like what do you say I think you have to keep it really biological don't you and it's easier for me because I don't have to explain that so it's just the egg and the doctor put the egg and the sperm together and then that made an embryo that went to mummy's tummy yeah um someone here's put I sometimes feel like I have to be both mum and dad how do I let go of that pressure and focus on just being enough as I am so for me it's all about support network so I definitely can't do everything myself there's some things I'm not good at there's some things I don't like doing so I think who's in our support network who's in our friendship and extended family who's great role models for my daughter um and then some things you know I do and some things I outsource to other people so um I think I try to play to my strengths and then um make sure that we're surrounded by awesome people who are great role models for her what what's about um because there's quite a few questions around the sort of mental load of solo parenting and I think Georgia and I always say this that you know we are in that position where if our batteries are at 50 % or 20 % then we can turn around to our partners and say I can't do this now you need to step up and then they'll say actually I can see you look absolutely knackered I've got this and vice versa so how do you deal with that what advice do you give to solo parents?

14:50Yeah I think in all honesty that is the hardest part of solo parenting because it's just the relentlessness of every night every day it's you the the physical things are you the mental things are you and so definitely I would say that's probably the hardest part for me of solo parenting again for me it comes back to support network so I made the decision to move from Manchester to Southport which I never in a million years thought I would be doing but I spent some time with my parents and I was like why am I not living here yeah like this is so good um and so I made the decision to move and it's been so good I've never looked back I lived in a really trendy area in in Manchester and I thought I want to live there and Southport that people say is you know like a retirement town but but it is I love it and the relationship that my parents have got with my daughter and what that means for me and the break I can have um my parents are divorced which in this case is great because then they come separately not as a package so I get double the amount of help and then you know friends I've got a lot of other solo parent friends and they just know they do the same they're like do you want me to just take over for a bit and so um yeah just really support from a wide variety of people and I always say I'm not parenting with one romantic partner but I'm parenting with a whole heap of help around me.

16:18Wow which is a beautiful way to look at it isn't it? Do you ever feel you know there's been so much so much talk online especially recently with Louis Theroux's documentary Manosphere and you know he was focusing quite a lot in my opinion on the fact that a lot of these young males that are on social media didn't have a father figure around now I guess what is your take on that and how do you see that so I um have interviewed quite a lot of people who've been donor conceived and raised in a solo parent family because I think there's no better thing than hearing someone's lived experience to learn you know what to do and what they say is it's about having role models um I ask them is it important that if they're male role models and there's a real mixed opinion and I think the next generation I don't they don't see gender as much as our generation and they they a lot of the younger people I interviewed was like no it doesn't matter it's just good role models um however my daughter's got loads of amazing men in their life my brother my dad some friends some of my best friends husbands are great so you know I think as long as you have those really key people that they've got a great relationship with um and that they can look to so you know especially as they get older and they don't always want to talk to you so you know my daughter's got somewhere else that she can go and someone else to talk to and are you able to talk to turn to your daughter if you're having a really tough moment and a really exhausted moment and whatever it is and say to her like mommy's not coping right now are you are you able to share that or do you feel that you always have to put up that front to be the strong parent no no definitely not I'm constantly apologizing to her now mommy said that but that wasn't the right thing to say but I was a bit it cross because and you know so no I we I really try to be honest and open and um and yeah be admit if I'm like having a hard time and in your like role um as a parent like a solo parenting coach what's the stuff that comes up the most like what's your most you know common day with with somebody so I'm predominantly coaching people who are considering this route right so the biggest thing is letting go of the fairy tale and I always say are you comparing solo parenthood to the real version of parenting with a partner or the fairy tale version and they're always comparing it to the ideal partner who knows your every need is there at every minute has a massive financial contribution now of course that sounds better than solo parenting but you know that's not necessarily everyone's reality so it's if you if you're really deeply wedded to that idea that that's how you'll become a parent it can be quite difficult to let that go so it's helping people let that go and embrace a different but equally great um scenario yeah and she mentioned the financial burden there I think is that something that comes up for a lot of people and it makes it completely you know not do it like unmanageable and a hundred percent I think it's one of the absolute hardest things at the moment single women are very rarely offered funding for fertility treatment so it's usually had to be privately funded that means that you can start off having spent all your savings having the treatment itself therefore not starting in a great position parenting solo so it is definitely one of the hardest things for people to manage there's a question here that says I have been a solo parent for five years I've now been in a relationship for eight months and I'm about to introduce my new partner to my little boy can I have some advice please oh gosh I'm not sure if I'm the the right person to advise but I think um I've interviewed a lot of people solo parents who have now become um in a relationship and people do it every different way so sometimes they try to keep it separate and so they date for quite a long time before introducing yeah some people introduce them as a friend and get to know them like and how the dynamic works and then work towards saying they're um that they're a partner and then some people do it straight away and but I think the key thing is again just honesty and openness and making sure that your child knows they can come to you with any concerns because my daughter said to me not so long ago mommy I don't want ever you I don't want you to ever get a boyfriend and I said why and I thought it was going to be because she wanted me all to herself but she said because I don't want to stop doing all the solo mum things and that's because we've got a massive solo mum friendship group and we go camping together we're just about to go to Greece on a holiday together we like we do loads of stuff together and she thought if I got a boyfriend all of that would have to stop and I was like no like that's there are people they're going to stay no matter what my situation is so I think it's asking them what why you know if if you don't like a situation or if you feel something about it let's talk about it and are you dating no no not at the moment I have done um it is it's there's pros and cons I think that the pressure of meeting someone has gone because there's no time pressure but there is a massive time pressure in terms of I've got no time.

21:37So like prioritizing it. And also I genuinely, I've built a life that I love. I've got an amazing friendship group. I've got so many amazing people. It's quite difficult to have room now almost for that. So if the right person comes along, I'm fully open. But no, I haven't met anyone. It's so lovely though, because I met someone who had a daughter and co-parenting, Isla's mum is absolutely wonderful. but it was such a joy to meet somebody that was already a parent for him to show me the love between the two of them I learnt so much in that first 18 months of being her step mum but also seeing what that bond was like between the two of them I never wanted to go in there and bust it apart it was always how can I add and how can I grow as a person and how can I love another person's child and it does have a really happy ending I think sometimes when it goes wrong it's that you think your whole world has to change like he very much prioritized that over everything else and I really respected it yeah I think it will be hard for me to meet someone because I've lived on my own with for 15 more years obviously now with my daughter and my house is a girl's house it's got pretty wallpaper it's got all my things exactly as I want it and I can't see myself living with someone but also I think relationships are sort of evolving a bit aren't they there's plenty of people who don't live together so i see probably a less conventional part-time boyfriend that is absolutely ideal person and helen bonacarta lived in houses next to each other for 25 30 years i'm gonna sign up they had like an adjoining door yeah ideal yeah they're not together anymore maybe it's not ideal then sounds ideal to me right where should we go next let's go okay how do I handle school events that are very mum and dad focused without my child feeling left out I mean I guess also that's not just about the child feeling left out that's if you're on your own and you know it's mum and dad's intro like year reception or whatever night out yeah how best how like how should you best navigate those sort of situations I think this will really depend on the school because the school that my daughter goes to is so mixed there's so many different scenarios um so I never feel like it's everybody in a couple of me there's like all different sorts of situations I think it's harder for people who are in more of a like 2.4 situation where everyone they come across is in that situation and I always say outside of that try to diversify your friendship group.

24:18If everybody is in that same situation, you will feel like an outsider. And I think belonging is so important. And that's why I think I found so many solo mum friends, because they immediately get the situation. And I think that gives me confidence in other situations, because I think I know I'm happy, I know everything's sorted, like I'm not worried about it. So therefore, I'm absolutely fine to hang out with a load of couples if that's the situation the other thing is I'm in the lucky situation where I always bring my parents um and I've no shame in that 47 parents come along you know get involved and so um parents evening I went on my own there's absolutely no problem with that and things like the Christmas um the Christmas show I got my parents to come and um so I think it's being confident in your situation and trying not to compare to anyone else because there might be two people there but you don't know anything about that situation you just mentioned that the school there's like a real variety of parents but how do you know that until you get there or is that a conversation that when you're looking around schools do you say to the head like you know what's because how would you know do you know when I was looking for my daughter's school I went to two different schools and the one that I walked in on the door it said love made a love makes a family and it had all the different family types mum and mum, dad and dad, mum and dad, mum, dad.

25:46And I was like, this is a school for me. Like it was on the door when he walked in. So that gave me an indication the school that I was choosing had a real emphasis on inclusion and individuality. And that was really important for me. But yeah, asking them and getting a sense of how they feel and how they talk about it, I think. We'll be right back after this short break.

26:13ID Tech is more than just the original and most trusted tech camp for kids ages 7 to 17. ID Tech is where kids find their people. The engineering and creating people. The fire-breathing, shell-spinning BattleBots people. The just-as-happy building games as they are playing them people. ID Tech offers over 50 epic courses, like Camp Crunch Labs IRL, BattleBots with TakeHomeBots, and more at 75 college campuses across the country. Visit IDTech.com and use code IDTech to save$150 on a week that's guaranteed to be the highlight of your kid's summer. Save on tropical flavors at Whole Foods Market during the Savor the Tropics event, with yellow sales signs highlighting seasonal finds throughout the store.

27:00The produce section is bursting with pineapples, mangoes, and kiwis at their juiciest. Grill up fresh seafood paired with tropical fruit marinades or grab and enjoy the spicy Hawaiian pizza, huli huli chicken and more. Finish with a sweet slice of mango yuzu chantilly cake. Savor the tropics and save at Whole Foods Market.

27:23Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? Someone here has put, I worry about burnout because everything falls on me. What are realistic ways to get a break as a solo parent? You've obviously mentioned the network of people, but are there any other kind of tips? I think it's organizing your time. So I do things that I would never be able to do when my daughter's there, when she's not there. So I've recently really got into meditation, which because I also the mental load is a lot. I don't want to pretend it's not. I mean, for everyone it is. And so I was like, oh, I've got to do this and I've got to.

28:00And just my mind was constantly on. and I've started meditating now I cannot meditate when my daughter's there so I choose the times when she's not there to do things that I can't really do when she is there and then there's plenty of things I can do and get her involved as well you know like getting the house tidy I've stopped doing that in my precious time when she's not there and then do it when she is there trying to rope her in with me so it's almost like being a bit smart in how you use your time and I I also think there's never enough time. So just take snippets of time. I will do like a 15 minute run just to get, if there's 15 minutes available, let me just go.

28:43Quite often at work at four o 'clock, I'll be like, still in my run gear because I fitted 15 minutes in and I haven't managed to get changed, but it doesn't matter. So take every opportunity, I think is the other one. That's great advice, actually. I mean, the majority of us, regardless of whether we're doing it on our own or sitting in our gym kit at four o 'clock having had a shower. Absolutely. I can't tell you how many times I've gone, yeah oh god it's it's me yeah yeah no totally I think it's more like if I have had a shower and had a workout in the same day it's pretty that's a win yeah that is a win was there any part of your decision that you not regretted because that's such a strong word but I'm interested to find out if there was anything that wasn't joy attached to it after you had your baby uh not after I think I regret worrying about it so much.

29:32If only I had the ability to look forward and see what it would be like, I could have just taken a big sigh of relief and thought, okay, it's going to be fine. I think everything that isn't working, it's like, well, what can I do to change it? So I didn't love living so far away from my parents. I lived like an hour and 20 and they didn't like driving in the dark so in the winter they were like we're not loving coming to yours because it's hard to get home without it being in the dark and I was like do you know what I'm gonna move um and so it's almost like you know anything that's not working you think is there anything I can do to make it easier um I think when I first had my daughter I expected everyone to be mind readers so I was like why is everyone not realizing that they need to come to my house and see me because I can't go anywhere.

30:24But I hadn't actually communicated with any of them. And I was a very different person. I was the single one. I was the one who went to people. I was the one who was out doing stuff. I never needed help. I never asked for anything. And I didn't bring everyone on the journey with me to say, actually, things have changed a bit and I do need a bit more help. And so I realized that quite quickly that I need to communicate to people rather than just being annoyed with them secretly that they weren't understanding my new needs when you mentioned before like the worries you wish you didn't have the worries that you did have what were your work like what were they I really really worried I was going to be lonely I just imagined sitting on my own in the house whilst everyone else was happy with their partnerships feeling really miserable and it just couldn't be further from the truth like the sometimes that I am on my own in the house I'm like oh my god yeah um and I think I just had this belief that um there would be a gap if there wasn't that one person there it would feel like something was missing and it doesn't because I've replaced one person with like many different people who will bring different things and on reflection I think that's why relationships sometimes don't work because we expect that one person to be everything my mum always says that she's like what is this expectation that the one person that you're with you expect everything from it that's why you have best friends that's why you have siblings that's why you have other role models it's like no absolutely not and I think if we expect all of that from our partner we set ourselves up to fail exactly and I think I thought like there'd be no one to enjoy things with so when she took her first steps when she said her first word of course her first word was dada I always say to people it's the easiest word to say so most kids first word is dada so I was like mum mum mum mum and she was like dada come on um but um and I think sometimes you think you'll have no one that has the same interest to celebrate those things um but I just whatsapp everybody and I'm like I don't really care if there is interested me or she's taking her first steps and I've got whatsapp groups for different friends who might be interested in things and I thought you know I needed to move house I've not got one person to help me but actually I've got someone who's in housing who's even better to help me choose a house so it's almost like finding your people and what they can help with so yeah I think everything that I was I suppose the other thing I was worried about was um would I be able to do it like would it just be too much and there are times don't get me wrong like 3am a crying baby no sleep and you're like oh but it's not what have I done it's like this is a really hard moment is there anything I can do?

33:07Mum, can you come and just give me a bit of a break? Is there anything that people say or do that really winds you up? You know, like maybe they've got good intentions, but that really they shouldn't say. Just for people listening who maybe don't know how to navigate asking questions or whatever. I think it's actually something you mentioned at the beginning a little bit. It really frustrates a lot of people when people say, I'm practically solo parenting anyway just because oh god did I say that but but I wasn't but the reason is because I agree it is that there's so many similarities and actually sometimes it's harder if I was in a partnership and felt like I was solo parenting I think I'd find it harder than actually solo parenting but I think it's the the mental support and the financial support that sometimes forgotten so yes that person might not be physically there a lot but they're hopefully contributing financially and they're there on the end of the phone so that one upsets people do you know I actually when I said it because I wasn't talking about myself was I was throwing it we were throwing it out to the listeners but when I did say that I did that did trigger something in me as well so apologies if I tried to bunch everybody into the same category there that's a learning from and i think you know people have got challenges no matter what their situation so there's nothing that's easier or harder it's just different at the end i think yeah um are people trying to find a bond with you when they're saying stuff like that do you think yes i i sometimes they're saying oh i understand how you feel and to try to get a connection sometimes i think they just genuinely think they're in the same position but that's because they've not lived in my situation and they just don't understand um I think the other frustrating ones is um like when you're making the decision people say no you've got plenty of time just wait when you're least looking the right person will come stop looking and the person will come and that's all reinforcing that it's better to wait and do it with someone whereas for many people they want their friends to just say yep if that's what you want to do we're here for you we're behind you you don't have to do it on your own people are like oh it'll be so hard thank you but they've not done it it'll be so hard maybe maybe you know we don't know i think it it sometimes if you're in a partnership it feels like it would automatically be harder because you're imagining your circumstances without the person who's helping you but i think if you went if you go into something knowing that's what you're going into you set yourself up for that and so now don't get me wrong there'll be plenty of people solely parenting saying it is harder you know and that will be some people's reality I know for sure I would find it harder parenting in a partnership that wasn't the right one than I do on my own and I can't even claim to be parenting on my own quite frankly because my parents are really like you know they do a lot for me honestly yeah but I guess it's just like sort of breaking the tradition like what tradition looks like and just sort of breaking away from it and what's right for you because you're so like it's so true like parenting with the wrong person it would be so much more difficult than doing it on your own yet so many people think oh it's fine I'll just you know have a baby with someone and do this but actually they haven't considered that doing it on their own without actually having to like rely on anyone or like ask for permission from anyone else or you know make I'm talking myself into this but you know like sometimes it's actually frustrating if you've got two people who can't make a decision but if you're you know when you're on your own you can make that decision you're the decision maker yeah you are yeah and I think that was me I was like I just I just want to do it in the traditional way and therefore it's only with hindsight looking back now that I think that would have been such a bad idea um it would have been so much harder and I think some things are harder some things are easier it definitely depends on who the partner is um but it's if you've got the right people around you um it doesn't have to be harder yeah um thank you so much for coming on the podcast I feel like we covered a lot there as well and actually it's really popped off with people that follow us online and obviously follow you So thank you so much for coming in and taking the time.

37:35It's been an absolute joy. Thank you. Thanks so much. Thank you.