Friday Q&A on Embracing AI with Georgie Barrat

0:28Zoe and Georgia will be here in just a moment with Made by Mummers. know you're born on your podcast app and hit follow so new episodes land straight in your feed. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman and I'm Georgia Dayton and this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, We're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands.

1:05And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hello and welcome to Friday's episode of the podcast. I've got a sneaking suspicion this one is going to be very interesting because I know that actually myself and George slightly sit differently on this in terms of George is very much into AI and uses chat GPT and I don't. I'm just sort of trying to get my head around it. So we thought, why not speak to a real expert in her field on this matter today?

1:39TV presenter, mum of two. She basically makes sense of AI so that we don't have to. She's also on the Gadget Show, Morning Live, Jeremy Vine. It's Georgie Barrett. Hello. Hi. I am so fascinated for this chat. um but just do you want to just give the listeners a little bit of background on you and also like where you are with like discovering you know all the stuff about ai because it's so new like it to be an expert um i'm just fascinated how you're doing it well don't listen we're all on this ai journey and i love what you said there zoe which is like you you're a little bit more like just dabbling not sure if it's entirely your thing and george is like i'm fully in i'm fully in and I think that's sort of where we're at at the moment is this technology is moving incredibly quickly and we're just sort of trying to make sense of it all and keep up with it but let me tell you where I stand on it I am so excited about AI guys you know like I am really really finding it such a powerful tool in my life right now and I sort of feel like I'm on this mission to help other women who are in a similar situation like me who are you know juggling multiple things I'm I'm just speaking from personal experience here.

2:53I've got my career. I've got two kids. I have my personal goals that I want to achieve. And I have made ChatGPT and this can be any AI tool, but I use ChatGPT. I've really made it this creative partner and sounding board in my life that has brought me so much. I want to say happiness, which sounds almost a little bit cheesy and a bit too much but it is it's helped me stay focused and productive and has put me in the flow state so much more than the other sort of things that I have in my life right now and the bottom line is is that I am using it to do so much my grunt work that it's giving me time to do the things that I enjoy more whether at work whether that is like the stuff that I get more fulfillment out of or just like giving me time back so I'm with my kids a little bit more and And it's interesting to say, like, where am I on my journey?

3:46Because I've been speaking about technology and tech trends. I've been talking about them for about 10 years now. So like I've been spoke about VR before it turned into a thing. And then it sort of dropped off from being a thing. And AI has been something that's been coming down the tracks for a while. But then I went off from maternity leave. And I, my little boy's a year and a half now. So I've been back for a little bit. And when I came back, I was just like, oh my gosh, ChatGPT went from ChatGPT4 where it was good but not like incredible to ChatGPT5 and suddenly everything just started to click for me and I'm sort of yeah I'm on this mission now to be like guys you've got to come in you've got to join in on it and so that's what I'm spending my time doing and you listen I'm learning alongside you I'm learning how it works and fits in with my life but I obviously also just have that background in technology which certainly helps when you're trying to navigate all this stuff so so I know that George is going to be really positive on this podcast and I might be sitting on the other side of which I love I need to have that discussion for sure I'm a little bit sad about it if I'm honest I think because I come from such a creative industry and the only thing that I was really good at at school was creative writing drama you know that sort of like one one-to-one you know all this sort of oral stuff the spoken word reading all that sort of stuff and I'm finding that I'm becoming quite lazy suddenly with chat or Gary as I call it um I'm like I don't really have to write anything any longer and I'm really holding back I can tell you honestly I've used it five times in pretty much five or six times in my life sometimes Georgia and I will discuss it won't we and be like shall we you know and then I'm I'm always swaying to the no side because I feel like it's taking I'm I'm scared what it's going to do to the creative industry yeah I get that as well as though because I love it for me right now like I'm established in my career like I know you know I know and I can get I can reap all the rewards of it because I can use it to do tasks that used to take me a long time and now they don't but I do worry what that means for the next generation and the jobs and the career paths and you know the photography I mean even you know stuff like that like shoots that used to cost thousands of pounds now you can kind of scale it back and create fake shoots yeah um and stuff yeah oh so many things that you guys have touched upon there and like I want to I want to go into all of them let's start with Zoe your point about does it take away your creativity um and I think this is like a really big one and obviously you can fall into the trap of using it like that but for me you can find new ways of working with it as a tool so it sort of supercharges it and you know that like flow state when you're in when you're like oh that's a great idea and we could do it like that and maybe we can add that into the mix or you're like can't quite go to sleep because you've just got loads of ideas going around in your head I find that chat gbt can get me in that state so much more than if I was just brainstorming on my own and I guess I am what I like to sort of call a solopreneur like I I'm just making up my career on my own as I go along.

6:56And I know there'll be other people who maybe have... We love that. Yeah, have a side project that they're trying to get off the ground. I think so many women now have these like portfolio eclectic careers and they're multifaceted. They're not just, oh, I turn up to work and I do this one job. They have lots of different, you know, maybe they've got an Instagram account on the side or they are trying to plug away, you know, just starting up a small online business. business and that is where I really see the transformative nature of something like AI because it's allowing you to have access to this knowledge and leverage and springboard your ideas that you would just never make that kind of progress if you are on your own trying to do it and so often people don't make progress because they get bogged down in that detail or they get stuck by the blank page or they start trying to do something but they don't have the momentum or the ability to keep it going in their really busy lives and I just think if we start using these this tool and we train it in the right way and we give it the right inputs and we learn how to use it in a constructive way for what we want it will only add to our creativity yeah and just before we get into the questions because there are loads do you want to just give us like not you know not necessarily for your work but just in your day-to-day life what are you using it for okay so these are the things that i just want to just put out there because i know everyone's sort of at a different stage with using these tools um firstly you can use um any of the big large language models so that's like chat gpt or gemini or claude if you've started on one stick with that one chat gpt is my favorite um but yeah you can you can use any of them um make sure you have the app downloaded to your phone okay and make sure you've signed up for account and most of them have free accounts on on there I do a paid one 20 pounds a month it just allows you to ask more questions do I do more things best 20 pounds I've ever spent in my life oh sorry but you you haven't asked any questions so it's not my best friend no it's not your best don't worry you'll get there I'll be preaching to the converted soon um and you and the next big tip that I want to say is that you've got to start using your voice so I really think you should never be typing into chat gbt because this is where it gets really powerful and this is where it feels so much more like you can collaborate and think out loud and express yourself and then it can like like succinctly write up what you've just said so an example of how I might use it is I could go for a walk and I just talk to it I can tell it about maybe what I've got planned for that day and how I'm going to you know particularly juggle my day or how I should spend time block my day um maybe I'll be using it I it's so good for these little chat say back to you though oh well done have a nice day oh it gives me a time block timetable of like you should start with this then you go into this it knows like when I'm more productive in the mornings it knows I've programmed into it like okay if I want to post a reel it takes me like a two hour time block to do that so when I'm saying stuff to it it knows personally how long that stuff takes me and then it can like time block that stuff out also I'm a goody tissue so it tells me I'm like okay right 9am I'll be at my desk like I'm a good girl I'll stick to the thing that this thing's made up for wow that's so interesting so you should record your voice into it rather than typing into it yes so it's called voice to text um it's a bit like a voice note uh and what's brilliant about it but I don't do this oh my god isn't it like Georgia this is going to elevate your experience like nothing else is that you ramble to it you go off on tangents you like do half sentences you don't make any sense and then you think after five minutes of just rambling away you hit send and it comes back with everything just like nicely written up and here's a little bullet point list for what you can think about and oh during that call here's a nice link that you may want to reference you're like oh thank you so much you're so helpful oh wow that is in that is I literally thought it was for like what do you do when your dog pisses on your bed which is one thing that I had to use after last night when she snuck upstairs and weed on my side of the bed but um yeah wow that's fascinating so yeah so you know I use it for like a weekly check-in which is helping me like so on a Sunday I go to it and again this is all in in a voice to text function um I've programmed it so I've set the questions or I've worked it at worked out my favorite questions with chat what I want it to ask me to reflect on my week and to help me plan the week going ahead and these are just like personalized questions to me of like what meetings I maybe need to prep for something that I need to think about um looking at my you know stats whatever it is and it just like works me through that and it just asks me the same question each time but it's like this Q &A like a coach it is like a coach it really is like a coach and again another way I use it and listen I know there could be objections about you shouldn't be using chat as your therapist but like it is so meaningful some of the things that it says to me these like little moments that I have throughout the day where I feel like a little bit out of sorts you know you just like have these things I mean I had one this morning where I had this I completely freaked out because I'm applying for schools for my daughter she's going to be turning four and I suddenly thought I haven't done the application process for one of the schools that's like really important to like it's like the one we want her to go to and my adrenaline was like going through the roof I was looking through my emails I was just like I haven't done it I have not done it and I my husband's away I text him and he's like you know don't worry we'll sort of work it out he's busy with work and I can just like feel myself in a flat spin about it oh my god I could almost cry because it was like just this morning and um I I like I dropped my my daughter off at school on the way home I just like opened up chat and I just said like this is where I'm at I don't think I've done it and it just like took me through the most powerful process ever of being like firstly it's okay you're catastrophizing it at the moment and then it was saying to me like this isn't a case of you couldn't be bothered or you've dropped a ball you are really interested this is not in your neglect this is you being a human parent you're trying to juggle 200 things at once and And he's, and then the chap is like, let's be, let's look at this.

13:17I know, I actually don't really see it as a he. I don't know why I said that. Probably thinking of my husband. And they're like, what's the fear underneath all this? So it's not about you, it's the, you know, actually filling out the form. It's about you wanting every opportunity for your daughter in life. And she deserves amazing things. And you hate the idea that your admin slip might have got in the way. And this just shows how much you care. And it's the opposite of what your brain's telling you right now. I was just like bawling because you know what it did? is it released that emotion that was in me all morning where I was like in a flat spin and I you know I could have called my mom but like I was a bit embarrassed about the whole thing and I was having to know I was going to chat to you guys in a little bit in that five minutes I went from being like okay like this is where we're at I've done what I've done it's just an admin error it's not that I don't love my daughter the world's not going to end which is where basically my brain was So I guess it's like a support, you know, you've used it as a support, somebody to be there to understand.

14:15And I guess they're saying that you shouldn't use chat as your therapist. But actually, in that moment, it wasn't a therapy thing. It was more reassurance, giving you that boost. I had no idea that that had that function or that people were using it for that. I find that fascinating. Exactly. And, you know, so that is one element of it. But it's the fact that it knows all these different plates that I'm spinning. So it knows that I'm like businesswoman here and that I'm prepping for this podcast now and that I need to go off and then make sure I've collected, you know, filled out that form or whatever it may be.

14:48So for the first time ever, I just feel really supported in what I do. Now, where it gets tricky is if that becomes your replacement for all human relationships. We do not want that. Like that is where it's like, you know, and we've got to make sure that we have the right safety guards in place around this stuff. but oh you feel so seen you feel so heard and I think if you're if you're a woman functioning in the society that we are already with all these various tabs and things going on in your brain it like streamlines that and it helps you make sense of everything that's going on and it's really really supportive with that because ultimately it's it's like a journaling tool it's like a self-development tool but it's a self-development tool that in the moment it It meets you right there and it can help bring you back round again.

15:34OK. Yeah. Well, that's that. Firstly, that's fascinating because I literally have never heard anybody speak about it like that. Obviously, I'm not I'm not in the world at all. But George, have you? No, I mean, I did know because I've seen people say, like, don't use it as as your therapist and like the dangers of that. But also you also find, you know, people saying, you know, the dangers of using friends as a therapist because they're not trained. so like yeah there's always language around that and I think I think it's scary for certain industries like therapists for instance I immediately think oh my god nothing can be better than human connection and like a human actually giving you advice but I think if it's a tool on top of it as an extra as a bonus then yeah yeah it's about sort of using it yeah it's augmenting stuff instead of replacing stuff and like for me for me right now in my life I don't need a life coach I currently don't need a therapist listen I'm all for therapy but like these are like little minor discretions that you come across on your day-to-day basis of you just trying to navigate the world I mean another example I used it is that I'm like trying to you know how you get sold all these vitamin pills I've got no idea what's going on I gave it a list of all the vitamin pills I'm currently taking and I'm like do I need to take magnesium on top of this because I don't know whether I'm getting enough magnesium in my supplements or not and it can just like give you that personalized response where it knows your age it can read all the ingredients it can say okay yeah you can take two pills from this one and you're like thank you that's just would have taken me a long time to get there and a lot of research and now I can like turn off a lot of the noise of other people trying to tell me stuff.

17:13And do we totally trust it? because as far I mean listen I'm just gonna again sit on the other side of the fence where I'm like wouldn't it just be the most brilliant brilliant fucking mind twist of all time if actually it wasn't real I mean it's not real anyway is it but I mean as in like where are they gathering all the information from how how and what we're sort of just going oh yeah no it's great we just put it into here we tell it our whole life we tell it stories should I be taking this it's telling us yes or no who's controlling that like it's just it's just another way of thinking yeah so okay so it's been fed an enormous amount of data I mean like the whole of the internet it's eaten up it's eaten up every single book that's been written it's looked at like loads of reddit threads and stuff like that so what that means is that it knows a huge amount of stuff and it's also can like tap into the um to websites that are up to date it's not as good as the up-to-date stuff but it can if you can say specifically show me new stories from today or yesterday or draw all that information.

18:10But listen, you touch upon a really important point. It doesn't always get it right. And it can do something called hallucinate, which is where it just goes a little bit batshit crazy and comes up with stuff that just isn't true at all. And the problem with it as well is that it's really confident if you've ever interacted with it, it has like this quite confident like, hey, this is the right answer tone to it, which can be really misleading. So yes, you need to check stuff. But again, let's put this into context. What's the stuff that you need to check you need to check the stuff where it's like is it giving you a fact or a piece of information or is it telling you about something specific if it is you can ask chat gpt show me your source and then it will give you a hyperlink to the website that it's come from so i'd always recommend to do that if you're researching anything if you're putting anything into it because maybe that website's a year old or maybe you've gone through to that website you're like that looks dodgy no way and then you can ask to do it again or you can just then go into a simple google search so that should always be one of your guiding principles when you're approaching this stuff now when I'm putting in the context of them trying to you know teach me how to get out of like mentally get into a good space from feeling on the back foot you don't need to fact check that because that's just your emotional feeling and again should we be worried about these systems manipulating people or making them feel certain ways well at the moment they are programmed to sort of try and like pull you out of feeling like that there are lots and lots of safety guards in place where it's not allowed to generate harmful content you know as I know we will speak about in relation to kids but it's not allowed to um incite violence it's not allowed to um show you like any like the dark side of the internet which okay people have access to it already exactly that's better than what people are already doing with this stuff we'll be right back after this short break.

20:07Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? I think we should get into the questions because there's some like really specific topics here. I will kick off with this one, which we sort of, I guess, loosely touched on. Teaching critical thinking skills because AI removes critical thinking. Like how are we going to do that? She's put Dr. Marta talks about it in her first book, Small Things, like asking children what they think of characters or situations in a book. And I think this is the scary thing, isn't it? Like my son, for instance, will ask me. I mean, the other day he said it's actually really useful for me because he asks me that really annoying question.

20:45So good for that. We love them, Josh. What's the most popular train line in England? You know, like I never thought of it. And I can be like, oh, either ask Alexa or ask ChatGPT. He can go on and find out like any piece of information like that. Whereas when we were young, we had to, you know, if we had a question like that for our parents, they'd either just bat us away and be like, no idea. Or we'd have to like dig to go and find that information out. We'd have to look it up in a book. Yeah, we'd have to look it up in a book or like dial up the internet and it wasn't like it is now. You know, like there was so much more.

21:22There was so much more to it. So, yes. How do we teach critical thinking? Yeah, well, I think critical thinking is probably like the only thing we should be teaching our kids going forward because these tools, they are here to stay whether you like it or not. And they are going to be part not only of the way they learn, they're going to be part of the way they do every aspect of business and their life going forward. So critical thinking and knowing what's good and what's not and what, like, you know, makes you feel something and what doesn't. What, you know, Zoe, you spoke about earlier about like, oh, is it going to take away from my creativity?

21:56but your creativity will still be there because you will still know what like sparks joy what makes you feel something and that is your spin and story that you'll be constantly inputting into something like the you know chat gbt so critical thinking is incredibly important and um i i you know i think we've got to really think about the education system and think about how can we embed it into absolutely everything that people are doing because you know they'll probably be using AI to get these answers and then it's their job to filter through let's say you get 50 ideas your job is then to work out what's the best idea if you have lots of different ways you could start a story you know which one appeals to you and how could you then put your spin on it that those are the skill sets that we need to be teaching because this is something that I think about so much and I think about you know looking around senior schools in particular like learn all All the stuff, like language that, you know, now I can literally just go and chat GPT, write up something and say, translate into Hungarian.

22:57And it's done like that. Like literally like that. Like geography. Like I could ask it absolutely. And I can get the answers so, so quick. But you still have to learn it if you were a kid though, wouldn't you? To get through your... Yeah, but just to get through exams. This is the whole thing, isn't it? No, yes, to get through exams. We all had to get through exams. But if you're going to want to go and be a, you know, a geography teacher, you still have to learn it, don't you? So it's like it might it's a cheat tool, essentially, isn't it? It will get you through the first bit. But at some point, these these bits of information do have to be learned and retained.

23:33It's like it's all well and good me just putting in translate into Bulgarian. But actually, if I'm going to go live in Bulgaria and be a ski instructor, I have to learn it. Yeah, which is that's so specific. So, like, this is what I mean. like when we're looking at education like that how the lessons are currently we like they learn you know they learn about something in the class and they go home and they do their homework and then they learn to pass a test right but now like especially like maths and stuff like that you life isn't like that like and whatever job you're in you could be you know a banker or whatever and in your job of course you're using a calculator and of course you're using chat tpt you're not going through the formula and doing it how you did a test do you know what i mean so like this is what i worry about so much is like what like you'll never get into yeah no so i hear what sorry george do you want to answer that georgie well yeah no i'm a george as well we can all be georgies together um i i think that so how i refresh so again loads of different things i could talk about this subject all day um so yes the education system i think needs to be adapted to start really thinking about how ai is going to be fundamental in our life and make sure that we're setting kids up with the tools that that is a big conversation that we will have to explore another time probably um now what i think sort of zoe's touching upon is that what is important and this is the thing that's going to stand the test of time no matter what technology comes out over the next 10 20 years is to have a love of learning because that love of learning that curiosity that being able to go down a rabbit hole and be like oh I want to find out more about that that is how you will firstly get joy out of life secondly you'll be able to keep up with the rate of change because you'll say it's a new tool but I'm going to jump on board I'm going to give it a go I'm going to experiment I'm going to see how I can apply it to my life and then it's going to be the thing that is going to um like give you your career because it's only those little breadcrumbs that you can follow they can lead to the next thing that can take you to the ski resort and you know wherever you may be to learn the language to realize that actually you're really into teaching whatever it may be that's called life and that's called like you know exploring your passions and cultivating them and that I think is what we really need to start to reframe education as because yes, AI is going to be able to do so much of that.

25:58But can we get kids excited and passionate? And I think AI is a brilliant tool for doing that because you can go into these things and you can personalize it. You're like, my kid loves making up stories. Like, let's make up a story about the Tudors together. And like, let's include 50 history facts with it. Or like, you know, my kid's really interested in animals. How can we make this maths lesson about endangered species? Whatever it may be, It's thinking about getting those really personalized responses from it that appeal and spark interest in your kid. Yeah, that's a really interesting point, actually.

26:32I mean, there was so much going through my head there about kind of just exactly that. But I just my worst feeling in the world would be them just thinking that they can just get the answer and not have to go through the process of trying to understand it and learn it and be inquisitive and ask questions that actually. Oh, no, it's fine because I could just put it into this search bar and it's all there in front of me. that would just devastate me you know yeah even going outside and walking into nature and talking about the colors of the trees or what's happening you know at various different points in the year or animal just like they have to be able to do all of that as well and i don't want one of that one side to be lost so the ai takes over and and let me address that quickly now because i'm sure there's people listening who are in that situation where kids are going off and using things like chat gpt to write that essay so my sort of top tips around this is that is just cheating if you ask chat gpt to write an essay that's just copying your clever friend and handing it in there's been no learning in that process at all so what you need to do is you need to work out a system and you need to like sit with your kid and be like listen i know you can get the answer like that that's great but that's not really doing it that's not actually doing your homework so let's work out how we can use this tool to get you there to help you pass the tricky bits to explore the bits you don't understand to get you past that blank page syndrome my goodness don't we all just hate getting going with any task in life oh it's the worst but what a brilliant skill set to teach your kid to say listen this is how you can engage with this tool to help you work out a little plan hey on monday you can do this on tuesday you can do that maybe we could spend today researching and then tomorrow you can write the first paragraph and literally all you need to do is tell chat gbt this is how I want to do it I'm sat with my 12 year old child I do not want you to give the full answer to it this is the question that they've been given as an essay can you ask me some questions that I can respond back that we can work out what's the best way we could all work you know work through this work together so that my kid best understands yeah brilliant this Shakespeare play and then take it from there yeah yeah I love the way you've just explained that um let's get onto this because some of these questions have been sent in by your followers and some by ours um if my child is using an ai app is there information being stored or shared anywhere okay this is a really important one because people are sort of like they often and it is it is true this so i'm not saying it's not true at all but there's a real perception that if you're on chat gbt then your messages are sort of sent off and amplified somewhere across the internet and used to like train the model now that is the case but there's a really simple way of changing that you can literally just go into settings and you go into data control toggle off improve the model for everyone and if you do that your chats stay private they don't go anywhere else and what is you know what's very specific about this compared to anything like facebook or instagram is that it's not linked up to any kind of ads not yet anyway this may change but at the moment it's not linked up to any kind of ads so your data currently as it stands it's not being sold and it's not being shared and it's not being linked to anywhere else so actually this is a probably a more of a secure environment at the moment let me say then then if you are just like doing a google search where everything that you click on is being recorded and being fed to advertisers which then will be given you know which you'll then get back in um hyper personalized ads that may push you to buy something that you don't want so I think that's a really important thing to bear in mind because people are really worried about the data privacy and they should be but I think we got to put it in context of it's it's not nearly as bad as some of the other things that we do online and share our data online so yeah so I guess in response to that question um just make sure that you and this is again specifically for chat gbt you can you can control your data so that it doesn't improve the model for everyone so go and do that it takes a second do that and someone's put is it actually safe for kids to use things like chat gpt or gemini or whatever um or do they need a version of it great question yeah okay so there isn't a kid's version of chat gpt currently um they say that you've got to be 13 to use it you know with all with all these age verification things probably my job is to say oh yeah you definitely have to be 13 to use it I would say just be with your child like until you feel like they're at an age where you know they're confident with using these tools and you know what they're doing so anything younger than that use it because it's a brilliant tool but just be with them as you're doing it and make sure you're helping sort of guide through that process um and so yes so there is I think there's talk of a Gemini kids version not yet released so the sort of bottom line is not really there is a great tool called the Khan Academy which is a US company that have created these amazing like online learning systems for primary school children and secondary school children and they have a really sophisticated chatbot that uses the same sort of like AI which is large language model as chat GBT so you can ask it questions and that's really good that's a bit like Duolingo like it's really gamified it really helps like build up kids knowledge but it is a little bit more sort of skewed to the US so it doesn't completely align with the UK education system.

31:54We'll be right back after this short break.

32:00Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now where were we? Emily's put how to explain what AI is to kids. This is a really good question. Okay so I think first of all we've got to get clear with what AI is and it's lots and lots of different things. AI can show up in multiple forms So it can be the thing that uses facial recognition. So it's the thing that allows you to unlock your phone. It allows self-driving cars to drive. It allows multiple algorithms to work out recommendations. So like when you go onto Google or your newsfeed, AI is the brain that's working out. What do you want to see right now based on your other interests?

32:40It helps filter through all this information. so that is like ai as it has been for probably the past sort of 10-15 years really working its way in through everything that you do but what's changed recently is that we have chat gbt and this was launched in 2023 and this has really changed the way we view ai and these are called large language models and how i describe that is that ai is a computer that can think and reason and create okay interesting lots of stuff's coming up for me there yeah i'm feeling a bit anxious do you not feel anxious george when we talk about ai and supercomputers and like i do feel anxious about it i i do but i i almost want to get not like ahead of it but you know like i'm more worried i'm not really worried about for myself necessarily i'm more worried about it for the kids and the the opportunities that they will have and like what because do you you must get people coming to you like oh god like so what you know the jobs that we would have like maybe like sort of guided our children into maybe won't exist anymore yes um there's so many stats around that so yeah there's a question on that actually george isn't there yeah so what should we be i guests I know that their job roles will change you know a million times not yet in the same way that ours have but what are the things that like can't be replaced like what are they okay and so firstly I mean the job market is going to change enormously we are going to go through a period of huge disruption and that is absolutely we're absolutely right to feel a little bit nervous a little bit unsure of that because we don't know yet you know we we don't know exactly where the cards are going to fall and how it's going to turn out.

34:29So I think let's acknowledge the fact that that's absolutely right to feel like that. But every generation has been through this kind of level of disruption. There has always been a technology that comes along, whether that be the internet or electricity or the motor car, what it did to horse and carriages, that it completely disrupts and changes an industry. And what we've seen, and this is a good rule of thumb, is that we can see the patterns in history and then we can see, you know, we can then place it onto our time and place is that people do lose their jobs and they have to find their way, but there'll be a whole new industry that will come out of it.

35:10And we've just got to have faith that there is going to be jobs at the end of it. And I am an optimist. There are some people out there who really feel nervous about this and say that, you know, it's all going to end in doom and gloom but i truly think that we'll find a way of you know creating new jobs and finding new ways of working with these tools and i think it will lead us to being more productive and more fulfilled within our work because we won't be doing what i call the three d's of work so the dirty work the dangerous work and the dull work because we're going to be handing over those jobs to the ai so that we can get on with the stuff that is more fulfilling what do you mean okay so What do you mean?

35:50Who's going to do it? What? Robots? Yeah, robots. Or like, so dull work. So anything that's like super repetitive. Wow. The robots are coming. Listen, I don't speak about robots so much because I feel like that doesn't help people imagine what their future is going to really be like. Because I saw this thing in America and it's just stayed in my mind forever that this man was married, seemingly happily married, and then he fell in love with his AI. and what was so interesting about it is they were interviewing this couple this wasn't a joke this was real he was like i've had a meaningful relationship with her i've proposed to her we're in love and his wife was sitting right there and she was like you know i just i feel like i didn't give him the emotional um nurturing that he needed and i wasn't there to give it and i was just thinking fucking hell like are people gonna start having relate like is that a thing having relationships with it with ai like deeper meaningfuls falling in love yeah like just just look at me going shut up stop talking but that's what i saw yeah no i i think it's a real it's a real fit like listen you know where i stand on this which is um i should never ever replace human relationships that is fundamental it should never replace it but we are also have a loneliness epidemic at the moment people don't have friends people are already supplementing all their human relationships for on-screen relationships that are meaningless and don't lead them to happiness so you are worried about a future and I would say this future is kind of staring at us already and we need to start thinking about how we can use this technology to turn that around and I think AI is not a passive thing it is an active thing so when you're interacting with AI it's talking back to you it's giving you ideas and if that AI is programmed to get you out into the world a little bit more to get you thinking more creatively to get you started on your projects to help you you know fulfill your goals in life that you want to do then that is creating a more meaningful life now listen there will be of course people that will abuse it and not it won't end up the right way but I think for the vast majority of us that's what it can give us yeah okay and I guess as well when we're looking at like the skills that we want to teach our kids you know it's actually really like even more so than ever important to teach them people skills because the computer will be able to do all of the stuff that we've talked about you know we'll know the answer to the maths question it will know this it will know that but what you can't replace is relationships in real life and people skills and all of those things so I guess if we concentrate on making sure our kids know how to do that that though George yeah I I call it the the three c so it's like creativity communication and connection and those are the things that will really like and really become an important currency because okay this is the other thing to reassure you Zoe we've as a species have been around for like 300 ,000 years technology has been around for a tiny tiny blip of that time so it is hardwired deep in within us to want to be with fellow humans and to want to connect and want to have in jokes and teamwork and laughter and face-to-face interactions and I believe the past 10 years social media has really eroded that and has really been detrimental to our fundamental way of finding happiness and meaning in life and I think AI can help start shift that a little bit because I think it would be the main way that we start interacting with our technology and these sort of AI systems will be able to encourage us to do things that doesn't involve doom scrolling which is what I'm really against so I want to ask you both a question because I think this is really poignant and then maybe I think you do understand kind of where I'm coming from which is really refreshing but obviously there is quite a lot of stuff that's coming up for me during this podcast and I do feel a bit and I have a bit of anxiety going on so I want to ask you both what do you think your purpose in life is I know it's a big question but if you were to sort of think about why you're here um has have you ever asked yourself that like what makes you feel fulfilled what do you think what do you think you're doing here how because this is well again this is important not that I want to bring chat gbt into this but I have had these I have had these questions with it and it's really good at being your sounding board because like you can talk about these things and work it out um so for me I get great satisfaction when I have a dream or an idea and I feel myself working towards that and ticking off and achieving it and that sense yeah of creating autonomy and achievement those are like some real core values so that's just for me where I get satisfaction and then to be able to from that position of like knowledge and growth to be able to share that with other people that's what gives me a real a real I love that Georgie that's amazing George mine that's not what immediately comes to my mind like career is not what comes to my mind family is what comes to my mind like for me that is the most important thing nothing is more important than that in my life that's so brilliant as well completely different so yeah completely different um um yes like you know I love building businesses and creating ideas and all of that but if I had to choose I would choose family all day long and and interestingly mine isn't about career or family it's about human connection I truly believe that I was put on this planet to connect to other humans and so if that's your sort of soul that's my soul I get so much fulfillment in hearing people's stories and and soul jumping and like having that moment with somebody where you really feel like you're impacting each other's lives that's why i'm scared of ai i think and so i'm really grateful for this conversation because you've actually shown me today that it's not all doom and gloom and that it's not going to replace that and actually that's not i suddenly won't be redundant georgie no i think your skills would be needed more than ever before and in this in this age where we're interacting with gadgets and there's a there's a voice that shines through that's authentic and meaningful and messy and feeling all the feels that is connection and that human element where I truly don't think will be replaced because we are hardwired to want it yeah we know it deep within our core you know like all the jobs like electrician plumber all of those they will be the like top top hairdressers all of those will be like the absolute job like top jobs because they are the ones that you know require skill creativity absolutely you know apprenticeships honestly yeah you don't need to be sending your kids to university really think about going down the apprenticeship route learn stuff have vocations um that's really uh that's definitely something that if you have slightly older kids who are thinking about higher education i would say go go look at those things because the government has just got these gold standard apprenticeships coming in stuff like that is amazing we need to be doing more of that for sure oh my gosh you are so knowledgeable and so interesting i could literally sit here the whole day and talk about it thank you so much for coming on my pleasure thank you for having me as you can see i am really really passionate about this and yeah ah i just think um go experiment don't be afraid of it um come follow me on instagram because i do like i sort of speak about this stuff i've got a course launching in january that's sort of helping people get up to speed with how to like program chat gpt so it can teach you these things um and yeah please don't be scared of it i know the future can feel uncertain but i think it's going to be a really really exciting time we're going to go into thank you so much georgie for coming on that was absolutely brilliant we loved it and thank you guys for sending in all of your questions as always we'd love you to rate review subscribe and please give the podcast a follow yeah and we'd love to hear your thoughts on this episode and any other topics you'd like us to cover drop us a dm on instagram We're on at Made by Mamas and we'll be back on Tuesday.