Friday Q&A on Online Safety with Sharon Pursey

0:00Hello, I'm Monica Reinagle, host of the Nutrition Diva podcast. Summer is here and with it, the hot and sticky weather. A morning working in the garden or maybe on the golf course can leave you more depleted than you realize. And plain water isn't always the most efficient way to restore the balance. That's where liquid IV comes in. Its science-backed formula is clinically proven to hydrate faster than water alone. Whether you're exercising, playing outside, or simply surviving a summer heat wave, it's an easy way to stay hydrated. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV, hydration that goes wherever life takes you.

0:35Holidays are meant to be fun. So why does booking one suddenly feel like a full-time job? Prices going up, rules changing, too many options. Bring back groceries, I say. Or you could listen to The Holiday Expert Show. The podcast helping you travel best, spend less, and know what on earth is going on. I'm Chelsea Dickinson, The Holiday Expert. And I'm James Robinson, The Holiday Slacker. Every Wednesday and Friday, we'll help you make sense of travel, save money and answer your holiday dilemmas. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman.

1:12And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot.

1:21Georgia Dayton: We really have. Each week, we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts, and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hello and welcome to Friday's episode of the podcast. We always love these discussions, especially around a subject that is so prevalent, talked about amongst Georgia and I and amongst all of our friends as well, which is children's safety online.

2:02So today we're going to be chatting to the co-founder of an amazing online business called Safe2Net. She has been creating Safe2Net for years and years, a complete dedication to keeping our kids safe online. They've also developed groundbreaking technology called HarmBlock, which we're going to find out today. you guys have sent in loads of questions please welcome Sharon Percy to the podcast yeah looking gorgeous in Zara she said that dress is beautiful um just before we get into the chat and

2:31Georgia Dayton: all the questions because as you can imagine that it's such a big topic for parents um right now what made you start the business goodness well I'm a mom you know first and foremost Between us, we have four children and now three grandchildren. And we started this business about 13 years ago. So we have tried a lot of technology over the years. Some of it's worked and some of it hasn't. But it just felt, as our children had technology, that there just wasn't any safety mechanism in it. Even back in the day, we could see abuse, aggression. you know children were viewing and sharing it was snapchat back then and they were sharing images that were disappearing and there didn't seem to be anything to stop it and so my husband has a background in ai in starting and selling tech companies me not so much i'm not a techie but we knew there was almost an opportunity here to do something good and also you know fill a gap with technology that was tech for good so that's what started us off what are the kind of most sort of serious threats to children online now in comparison to say five or ten years ago so all threats are are terrible if we look at um online abuse and aggression you know sextortion sharing intimate images you know sexting accessing pornography or porn accessing them you know often children don't find it it finds them I think it very much depends on the child every child is different and some are more resilient than others and depending on what they encounter and how that impacts them but I would say that over the 13 years I have been drawn into the world of online child sexual exploitation right which I feel is one of the most severe harms against children and really people don't talk about it and I don't think most parents know about it tell us a little bit about that I was gonna say have you got any sort of stories that you can share um so sexual extortion of children is where I mean this it can happen in lots of ways but a child can be groomed by someone who maybe isn't who they say they are they build up a relationship with them and they encourage them to share sexual images and that then puts this child in a situation where then they are sort of under obligation to this person this person starts to threaten them sextortion that's sextortion but the whole act of um child sexual abuse and sexual exploitation can involve so many things so child sexual abuse is where a child is actually abused either they either they're forced to do it to themselves or by a third party right and that results in generating a material which is illegal so visual sexual material of children and that's then traded on the internet oh my god so it's very very serious in this country but it happens a lot abroad in asia and then that material floods this country and it's consumed by generally mostly men um in the uk the us and australia so that's child sexual exploitation i mean it's such a big subject yeah um but all of that content and the consumption of that content is a as a billion dollar industry sadly and i don't think a lot of parents realize that that's that's being that's happening so how so the the content is created by children essentially and then sold by someone else how how does that how is it sold if it's you know without you know being fat i don't know like being without being found i guess so this that's the extreme and and it's rare in this country um child sexual exploitation material is illegal content and it is searched for and pulled down by the internet watch foundation who are pretty much the only organization in the uk who are legally authorized to access that type of material in order to put those people in prison yeah um often the content is created in countries like the philippines where they're in extreme poverty by family members neighbors you know adults and it's streamed over platforms that we use every day streaming platforms and it is purchased by people in the west now that's the extreme right so that's quite frightening for most parents to think about that that would happen to their child you know alongside that there are the sextortion issues that are happening in the UK there's children just sharing intimate images with each other yeah you know if we look at the whole range of children having access to smartphones so let's kind of go back to what might happen to our own children and that would be that they would find porn or porn finds them you know this it's there's so much danger out there the sexualization of little children because smartphones are absolutely not protected in any way even if you lock the phone down to just whatsapp they can still share images on whatsapp or even iMessage or you know they even have a browser any image that they have access to could be a sexual image you know and the frightening thing is I made a short film recently for Morning Live on BBC and it was around sextortion and it very tragically ended with this young man who thought he was talking to a girl of his own age they started sharing intimate images with each other and actually it trans this was one of the cases that they actually tracked down the perpetrators and they were two brothers living in Africa in Nigeria and but he ended up he ended up taking his own life yeah off the back of it because they started the blackmail started to come in over the night saying well I'm going to share this to your entire you know numbers on your phone and put it all over social media um I interviewed his mother and it's it's one of those it happened in his room over the course of nine hours at night where his mother was asleep and that's what you know and that's the I think that's the frightening thing for parents that they're there yes there seems to be control like you say about locking the phones down and you know just having the whatsapp images but really how do we stop it is it about education is it about taking the phones off off the kids is it about saying well here's a nokia and that's the only thing you're going to have till you're 18 what's the answer in your opinion sharon that that's what gets me up in the morning sorry that exact story that you or that about situation that you've described that's why we do this job how heartbreaking is that story and I cannot as a mom I cannot imagine that so there's no silver bullet I'm afraid but there are lots of things that parents can do and I think education talking to their children you know is a great way to start and that's not easy as a mom you know when children hit a certain age they go into their room and close the door yeah and you get shut out as a mom and it's really really hard when you're so worried about all these things going on in their lives you know we've approached this from a technology perspective so be creating new technology that can disrupt and prevent imagery from actually reaching children in the first place right so you know we feel very strongly that prevention is extremely important while all those other things happen as well you know everything together but what we're doing is innovating in this space is AI that's developing good tech safe tech to prevent those images from being created by that child in their bedroom in the first place okay yeah because that's the thing isn't it I think we're in a sort of a society now where we do wrap our kids up with cotton wool, like in terms of letting them go out alone.

11:28Georgia Dayton: You know, years ago, people would, you know, let a 10-year-old out and, you know, wander down the road and get on the bus and all that kind of stuff. We don't do that anymore. We very much can't try and keep them in the home. But the danger is at home now, just as much as it is out there. Because of ease. Yeah, and that's the scary. And, you know, and not just phones, is it? It's like laptops, iPads. There's so, Alexa. There's technology everywhere in the home. and that I'm sure how to help you stop listening to our conversation Alexa oh my gosh see we're being listened to everywhere but for me like that's the scary thing it's like yes I can you know not give my child a phone right now but equally they step out of the house and at school there will be iPads they'll have to do their homework on a laptop eventually we can't like keep them away from it forever so I guess you know the technology that you're creating is amazing but what conversations should we be having with our children now well you know there isn't an exact answer to that is there because again every child is different and you and we as mums and dads have this responsibility of what we say and how we say it and there's lots of guidance out there brilliant from you know so many charities that are experts in this space that's not what we do but there are so many that can help parents have that conversation and how to approach it but you're right um I think what we're trying to do is provide a tangible tech solution to protect children from being sexualized at an age where they just don't have the mental capacity to understand it you know there's so much porn out there now which is so aggressive and you know terrifying for little tiny eight nine ten year olds to be frightened by you know is this what is this what sex is you know i'm afraid of that conversation as well isn't it what a horrible negative yeah message to send and you know maybe when that as you say well at some point there needs to be well they they start to get a bit of exposure to this that and the other it's almost what we're trying to do is delay that exposure to the point when they do start seeing these things but then they've got a bit more resilience they're being mature you know and they can like deal with it we've got a thing going on at home at the moment where my my eldest is my stepdaughter um obviously eilie she's 12 and she now has a phone an iphone now i have no idea what's going on on her phone at all as in I don't know who she's messaging I don't know what apps she's got even though I've got the parent sharing thing I suppose I could probably delve a bit deeper but I don't know who she's talking to she started a new school I also don't know if it's my place I'm one of her parents to say to her right hand your phone over I want to have a look yeah where do you sit with that yeah what's your just just what's your opinion on that would be good again um this is such a an emotive subject with parents um I don't think there's a right or wrong answer you know um my children we are so so different each one of them right what was right for one wasn't right for the other do you look at your kids phones well one is their inner 30s my youngest is 22 so unfortunately not but we when we started the company she was 10 yeah and so I paid a lot more attention but then she wasn't so into technology then and we're all our kids are different so I mean the technology that we've created allows parents to give their children smart a smart device which is a totally normal android device that does everything right except it doesn't render sexual imagery to the screen this is harm block yeah talk to us about that how does the tech work so it's ai that is essentially looking for sexual imagery so that's adult or child sexual imagery including child sexual exploitation material so that's the very illegal stuff but also everything else and so it's very very fast it's very accurate and it can be compressed into this tiny little we call it the mustard seed and we embed it into the operating system of the device and that's why this is brand new tech it's never been done before when you embed this sort of tech into the operating system of a laptop a tablet or a smartphone it cannot be removed it becomes part of the phone and it sits behind the rent that the technology that renders images to the screen so every single application browser camera everything that would render to the screen of the device passes through our classifier, which says, is it sexual imagery or isn't it?

16:30Yes or no, yes or no, very, very, very quickly. If it's sexual imagery, it doesn't show it. Everything else works as normal. This is brilliant. Yeah. It also works on the camera. So if it's broadcasting going out the other way, again, is it naked? No, fine. Everything else works as normal. so it's allowing there's also a lot of parental controls on this phone so because it's a nokia actually but it's the smart it's the hmd okay it um starts its life basically completely locked down with no apps no browser no camera and as the parent wants to introduce these applications to their child they just allow them and it pops up onto the screen so over time as your child grows up you can allow and remove camera browser app store whatsapp snapchat everything you want and remove them again that's always harm block is remove is stopping the sexual imagery because i

17:32Georgia Dayton: guess yeah sexual imagery is one threat to a child correct but we also saw um in the program that matt willis and emma willis what was it called i can't remember it was like smartphone free school or something yeah one of the things was a child in their bedroom got talking to somebody online and they were just chatting away but not they weren't sort of sharing sexual sexual imagery it was getting them to do things that were dangerous so like harming themselves or doing challenges is it's just so difficult isn't it because how does anything is there anything there to help with that so there's a lot of tech companies in this space um and developing all sorts of technology to analyze text as well as you know imagery that's not what we're doing at the moment um we are focusing on imagery um intercepting incoming messages from third parties gets you into the realm of um laws yeah snoopers charter um which is the regulatory powers act and it's against the law to intercept an incoming message without the sender's consent so um and freedom of speech and everything else yeah foul of that so those things fight against each other safety and privacy you know which which we're hearing a lot and you know we're not in that space we're uh just protecting children from the imagery so there are so many harms i mean this isn't a silver bullet but um you know we're just doing the sexual imagery which is brilliant we'll be right back after this short break

19:32hello i'm monica reinagle host of the nutrition diva podcast summer is here and with it the hot and sticky weather. A morning working in the garden or maybe on the golf course can leave you more depleted than you realize. And plain water isn't always the most efficient way to restore the balance. That's where Liquid IV comes in. Its science-backed formula is clinically proven to hydrate faster than water alone. Whether you're exercising, playing outside, or simply surviving a summer heat wave, it's an easy way to stay hydrated. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV, hydration that goes wherever life takes you.

20:09It takes the hits, runs the miles, rebuilds while you sleep. It's felt every fall, every dance floor, every belly laugh. And in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor and this is Back Your Body, the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have. The one you have with your body. From scars to self-care, the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love, we're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them, or finally learned to listen to them. It's time to back your body the way it's always back to you.

20:45Back your body. Subscribe now. Your body will thank you.

20:53Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? There's a fear we don't want to make them frightened. I often think about that as well. I think this is quite an interesting topic for us to discuss today, because let's take my youngest, for example, who loves, you know, we give him a little bit of time on his iPad to play games. He likes Roblox. He's into it. And then we hear all this, you know, these news reports about how predators are targeting the chat mechanism through Roblox to then talk to young people. And then me and my husband are going, right, that's it. You know, no more Roblox.

21:25And he's going, but this is my favorite. You know, and suddenly I thought we're panicking him, right? He doesn't know anything about this. We're reacting. I don't necessarily want him to see our fear. It's more about really educating parents alongside children around these topics, because I don't want to go, right, that's it then. No more roadblocks. That's it because he loves it. How do I keep him safe within that arena? I think one of the challenges is that we're relying on big tech. Many of those are big American companies, their integrity and their willingness to do the right thing to protect children.

21:58And we've got this sort of, what do you say, battle between their commerciality and their, you know, them wanting to do the right thing by restricting these features, you know, that are exposing children to harm. So we're seeing policy and legislation, you know, coming around the world. We see it in the UK, the Online Safety Act. In Australia, of course, the online safety legislation there. the e-safety commissioner is really taking some of these platforms and services to task they're bringing in legislation at the end of this year to make social media platforms illegal for children under 16 um i know the united states are fighting against that it's a really kind of volatile um policy ecosystem globally i don't think that brings much um comfort to parents because it's very complicated.

22:58And I just don't know how I would feel if I had little children on Roblox at the moment. Oh, that gives me a shudder, genuinely. Yeah. I think, you know, the trouble with policy is that it takes a long time. And then, you know, there's all these loopholes and everything. Some companies that remain in place and they don't fall into scope. But again, I think you just need to keep an eye on what your children are doing. and just, you know, don't let them be alone while they're playing on Roblox. Yeah, and you can turn the chat settings off, which we've done, so nobody can message him. But I didn't even know that was a thing.

23:36You just, you know, everyone's doing it, all the kids are playing it, and you see your son doing it, you're like, oh, I try and talk to him about it as well. Sit down with him and say, like, can you show me what you're doing, this grow a garden thing where they buy stuff and plant it and all that kind of jazz. But I don't really understand it.

23:51Georgia Dayton: Yeah, this is the thing, isn't it? And I was having a chat to our producer before, we started this about, you know, where do you sit with like not wanting them to feel left out and alienated, but also having that responsibility of what you're comfortable with. Like my son, this is gaming, still the same thing. There's chat functions, there's, you know, internet, there's everything with gaming. And he's the only one out of his friendship group, like across everything, you know, school, football, all of the different social groups that he's in that doesn't have a PS5. Yeah, neither does his kit.

24:23Georgia Dayton: He hasn't got one. Nope. and he's nine, like, now we're, you know, we're having a conversation about, like, why, you know, should we just let him have one? Like, are we making this into a bigger thing than it really needs to be? And then the other part of you is, like, right, this baby stays, that whole thing of, like, giving them a little, and then it goes further and further and further, and are we right to just be, like, do you know what? It's not for us. We're not there to control it. I think that's the point it's like I'm I don't I can't be there with him while he's playing these games no all the time I can't physically do that so then is it my responsibility as a parent to just be like no or is that more damaging because it's becoming more of a big thing and a forbidden fruit like alcohol like anything and then as soon as they get it they go wild you know I just

25:18we have a lady in our company called sarah castro and she's head of safeguarding and as you were speaking there she has this this phrase that is be cyber aware so for every game and application that you give to your little ones you need to roll up your sleeves and understand it yourself i would say you know to have that confidence and to understand those settings things you know that's the only way that you'll feel you know the terrain that you're then opening up for your child and that may be a pain but at least you would understand how you can switch things on and off and I think there's lots of tutorials and there's lots of mums groups now yeah that if you you just have to sit down and work it out and then you'll be equipped to I guess make a decision well oh blimey I didn't realize that happened then it's a no from me or well these are the parameters I can switch that off and then go for it it's really good advice that yeah I think that's brilliant advice because I think both of us have come from absolutely no no tech you know we're not going to do it they're going to be 16 before they get an iPhone I saw Robbie Williams doing an interview and he was like my child is not going to get a phone but but then when our kids reach 18 yeah they leave the home if they want to go off to uni or go to get their jobs you're telling me an 18 year old girl oh boy can't be targeted they also 100 % can and they They will have had none of the advice.

26:42And they would have none of the sort of drip feeding and various things. It'll just be a battle of the wars. It will be a nightmare.

26:47Georgia Dayton: I was going to say this because in my son's year at school, there's a couple of parents who are head teachers and teachers. And in year five and six at school, they are encouraged to get what's called a gate pass to be able to walk to and from school on their own. Now, obviously, yeah, well, they actually can't walk home because he wouldn't or he probably could. but I wouldn't feel comfortable with it. It's down country roads and stuff and it's just not a thing. But a lot of kids live within five minutes of school and they could walk to and from school. Every year there's obviously a conversation with parents around who's going to let their kids, who's not going to let their kids.

27:25Georgia Dayton: And it's a discussion. Now with that obviously comes parents then deciding that is the time that their child's going to get a phone because they want them to message them when they get to school and they want to message them when they get home. so that obviously comes up as well and this year the parents who are teachers and head teachers and stuff have given their kids phones which really surprised me and I'm not you know I'm not there to judge I've got no idea like we're you know I'm doing this for the first time I want you know not a clue but it surprised me and they said I would rather my child made the mistakes on their phone in primary school than they do when they get to secondary school.

28:12Georgia Dayton: Wow, that's so interesting. Because I guess when you start secondary school, there's loads of other stuff going on. I don't know. And I thought, oh. So how old are they? Nine? Nine. What mistakes do they want them to make? Well, I don't know. This is actually, and so then that made me think, well, they're teachers. I don't know. You know, you think, but it's that whole thing, isn't it, of the drip feed. Like, is it best at nine years old if they're walking to school? You don't want to drip feed porn to your child. No, definitely not. No. And that's not what they mean. I think they mean with the WhatsApp groups in the classes and, you know, and having the obsessiveness to begin with and all of that.

28:50Georgia Dayton: They want to get that out the way. So it's almost not like a... Do you think it goes out the way, though? I don't think it goes out the way. I think the addiction just starts earlier, doesn't it? Sharon, what do we think? Well, I don't know. I think that a lot of parents and teachers, I mean, a lot of people don't know what the harms actually are because it's such an awful subject that we don't really want to talk about. It's just a yuck, isn't it? Yeah. But there are phones that can be given to children that are pretty much locked down, you know, so they could send a text without being able to do anything else that's dangerous.

29:28Yeah. Potentially. It's very difficult. when we attended our launch with HMD and Vodafone, NSPCC spoke and there was a really shocking stat that I should have known. It was something like 98 % of children have smartphones by the age of...

29:49Georgia Dayton: It's 11. Was it 11? It is. I saw this this morning. That is shocking. Yeah, that is. So, I mean, I think we need to kind of almost accept that they've all got smartphones. What are we going to do? or they're all going to have smartphones, how are we going to stop the harm?

30:09People can hold back giving their children phones and I think they've every right to, but a lot of them have got them already.

30:15Georgia Dayton: And also their friends have got them. That's the other thing. You can stop your child from having one, but then ultimately they're sat next to their friend who's got one anyway. That's right. So if they all had harm block, if they all had the technology that had been inbuilt into their phones, they wouldn't be able to access that porn So as a cohort is when I think our tech works best. So what we want is every child in the class not to have access to porn, basically, or be able to share sexual images or nude images with each other. And then they'll just say, well, these phones don't do it. So let's just go and climb a tree or play something.

30:51You know, when no one can do it, then that, you know, them being different ceases to be a thing.

31:00Georgia Dayton: We'll be right back after this short break.

31:30playing outside, or simply surviving a summer heat wave, it's an easy way to stay hydrated. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV, hydration that goes wherever life takes you. It takes the hits, runs the miles, rebuilds while you sleep. It's felt every fall, every dance floor, every belly laugh, and in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor, and this is Back Your Body, the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have, the one you have with your body. From scars to self-care, the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love, we're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them or finally learned to listen to them.

32:15It's time to back your body the way it's always back to you. Back your body. Subscribe now, your body will thank you.

32:27welcome back to this episode of made by mamas now where were we are our children this is a really big question so i want to phrase it properly before i speak is the world more sexual now than it was when we were kids in terms what i mean by that is we've all been 12 13 14 15 where we were playing spin the bottle and we were snogging john leith shout out strongly um but it it didn't now did it feel as seedy back then like is it seedy now is it because we've got access to things like here's the photo porn and the photo part and were there still predators back in the day or has it got worse where are we with that topic well I'm older than you so in my day um porn magazines were on the top shelf of the news agent yeah and um you know we didn't I mean from my own experience you know we might have been curious but there was just kind of no way of accessing anything yeah um and I think that I do think that a generation has been sexualized there's a great book by Jonathan Haidt called The Anxious Generation where he talks about um you know the sexualization of this generation and how they have become addicted to you know becoming addicted to pornography it's just a thing and you know strangulation during sex is almost children think that's normal and that's an expectation of them and that girls are becoming desensitized to being treated like that and that's what's going to be expected of them which is really frightening so I think what we need to do is we need to stop this through technology like ours and others you know we'll bring it on you know let's this is possible we're demonstrating the art of the possible by with our tech and every device whether it's a laptop a tablet or a smartphone that is put into the hands of a child should not show that type of content to them until they're able to deal with it yeah it shouldn't be

34:32Georgia Dayton: And it's possible. It is possible. So, you know, that's what we feel is our mission in life now, to demonstrate this to the world. It's launched in Australia now. It's launched in the UK. We're going to the States next week, you know, trying to get it in there. And whether it's us or whether it's others, this is the beginning of the reset of stopping the sexualisation of little children. that's a that's a i mean i mean i can feel your passion i think we can we can feel it i mean is it are you battling against anything that we might not think you are in terms of we're talking about the sexualization of children which is absolutely horrific and horrifying do people want children to see porn at age like with the like with the porn sites is are they targeting them or is it just happening because do you see what i'm saying to like almost hook them in the thing is like we were growing up the boys that we were they would have had the magazine under their bed they would have had a dvd that they were swapping around right it was happening like they were watching it but not to the extreme where it's accessible 24 hours yeah or anywhere is it yeah do the porn companies want to hook these kids in so that they can you know they stay with them so there's kind of two questions there right so the whole world of um stopping children from accessing porn sites it was integrated into the online safety act through the age verification and estimation um rules that are being played out now so that is not the space that we are in got it however um i can't speak for the porn companies on what their motivations are in terms of does everybody want to stop children from accessing harmful sexual imagery some of which is illegal we are not seeing any pushback at all okay honestly everybody that we show this tech to loves it um policy makers mums schools i think one of the challenges we have is to actually let the world know that this is possible in a form that is so advanced now and market ready that its performance is almost seamless it's so fast that it's real time and that it wasn't a thing in days gone by so I think one of our challenges is getting these big device manufacturers like Dell, HP, Apple, the giant device manufacturers to start integrating this.

37:21As standard. As standard, because it's not part of online safety legislation at the moment. So part of my role is policy and legislation advocacy. So I go into the Home Office, who have been awesome, to say, broaden that scope of your legislation, not just the platforms and services, but do keep beating them up too bring the device manufacturers into scope now that this technology has reached a maturity bring that into scope and the operating systems because we're seeing it in australia coming and all different markets around the world are looking at this but no one's brought it into policy yet so i would say of the pushback it's not in the marketplace but we just need to let the world know that it's possible because that will bring a tsunami

38:10Georgia Dayton: of demand for it because then I guess it is that whole like baby steps and like age appropriate um like tech because then we really could control it like I this is this is not to do with the internet but I went we were on holiday um recently and we're in like you know one of those shops that sells absolutely everything and there was a smartphone yeah like there was a smartphone for kids it's like 20 euros or whatever and my daughter was like she's six oh my god I want one of those I want one of those I want one of those so I was like yeah yeah like okay fine I sort of looked at it and had like games on it and it looked like a phone with a cover on it like a unicorn on the back and all of that stuff and I was like oh actually that's quite good like you know you can play silly games on it there's obviously no internet there's no messaging like there was a camera on it uh oh my god as soon as she got that phone in her hand she was sassy like holding it around sort of showing it in front of other kids and I was like wow she's a bit of a demon whoa like pictures was obsessed with this thing that didn't even do any of the things that you think you know that are harmful to kids and want them to do but then I thought to myself well okay that's her first step into a phone and I've seen what she would be like soon 10 years yeah but then I guess if you if you're you know a few years on from that like a nine or ten year old it's they're getting that first you know device that they think is really cool but actually they can't do the damage with it that's really helpful because it is going to be you know it's like with anything that kids get the even pair of shoes or whatever they want to show them off a bit yeah I guess it's that same but it's just building it up isn't it so that it doesn't I don't know it doesn't become so harmful I think that if you categorize phones as toys if you're giving them to children they would fall under a whole different category of safety measures I mean you wouldn't get into a car without a seat belt no you can't even buy a bag of peanuts without it saying this contains nuts yeah so much legislation to protect the consumers from everything else why on earth are we able to give these weapons to little children but you know that sounds doom and gloom no no there's a lot of tech being developed in the safety tech industry that is not getting the profile and that's why it's so brilliant that you guys are you know have invited me on to talk about it because parents need to know that the cavalry is here there is a solution you've got to look for it you know you'll see it coming out Vodafone are launching this device it's in the shops now and you've got to ask for it to the HMD fuse and more will come but there's hope and I think it's quite terrifying for mums and dads and I'm not saying I'm not advocating for putting phones into the hands of children at all but when the time is right and parents feel okay I'm ready this is time you know I'm going to not give this and not give that but as you say peer pressure you don't want them to be the only one without it then I think there are better choices in the market and we're trying to be one of those.

41:28I've absolutely loved today's conversation we we sort of answered all of there was like lots of questions around kind of like what age do you think children should get smartphones all this

41:38Georgia Dayton: kind of stuff which I think we kind of covered yeah and we sort of I think we've sort of worked out that it's each child is individual and so you know you might have a 12 year old who's definitely not ready for a phone and you might have a 12 year old that is or their life means that they need to have one yeah I think there's just way too much pressure on what's the right thing what's the wrong thing you have to really feel it with your own kid the own conversations your own conversations that you're having with your kids and let's be honest I absolutely loved my pager until I was 16 phone home I'd be like I haven't got a phone so I took what's a bloody phone box and do the reverse charge I was talking to this about my with my answer the other day I was like there is going to be a point where they have to have a phone because there is no phone box doing the reverse charge I was thinking that the other day why don't they bring phone boxes back to schools I mean we I was able to ring my mum after hockey yeah say come and pick me up yeah and I I didn't have a smartphone and somehow we coped, didn't we?

42:36Got on the bus and I got to school. If I hadn't turned up, I suppose the teachers would have said, where is she? You know, well, that's it, isn't it? We used to just sit and wait for our parents. I remember being left at the train station for 45 minutes. Me and my sister just sat there and we're just like, oh, she'll be here. Yeah, she'll come. She'll remember about me. Sharon, if there's one message that we can kind of leave our listeners with today that you would like them to take away from this conversation, what would it be? I think it was what I said earlier there. It's to give parents that encouragement that there is technology out there that can block harmful sexual imagery.

43:13You know, that's the space that we're in. And we've embedded it into the HMD fuse. And it's on the market with Vodafone and 3. But more will be coming. So search it out. Okay, I love that. I love it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Sharon. Thank you for having me.

43:39Hello, I'm Monica Reinagle, host of the Nutrition Diva podcast. Summer is here and with it, the hot and sticky weather. A morning working in the garden or maybe on the golf course can leave you more depleted than you realize. And plain water isn't always the most efficient way to restore the balance. That's where liquid IV comes in. Its science-backed formula is clinically proven to hydrate faster than water alone. Whether you're exercising, playing outside, or simply surviving a summer heat wave, it's an easy way to stay hydrated. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV, hydration that goes wherever life takes you.

44:16It takes the hits, runs the miles, rebuilds while you sleep. It's felt every fall, every dance floor, every belly laugh. And in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor and this is Back Your Body the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have the one you have with your body from scars to self-care the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love we're talking to people about the bodies they live in how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them or finally learned to listen to them it's time to back your body the way it's always back to you back your body subscribe now, your body will thank you