Friday Q&A on Relationship Advice with Charlene Douglas

0:02Just before Made by Mamas starts, if you've ever struggled with making and maintaining your friendships, then you need to listen to Get a Grip's latest episode. Angela Scanlon and Vicky Patterson have launched the Gag Academy, a special four-week series tackling the everyday issues that women want honest conversations about. To kick it off, they're joined by friendship expert Michelle Elman to chat about why breaking up with mates can hurt just as much as romantic heartbreak and have loads of advice to help if that's something that you're going through. Search for Get a Grip and get it lined up to play next.

0:58Look for Nature Raised Farms on your next grocery trip and feel more confident about your choices.

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1:37Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot.

1:50Georgia Dayton: We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Welcome to Friday's episode of the podcast. Really looking forward to today's Q &A. And so it seems you guys are as well because we have had so many questions in for today's guest.

2:26We're going to be talking all things relationships today with intimacy coach, maths legend. It's Charlene Douglas. Hey!

2:37Georgia Dayton: How are you? I mean, that's the big title. How did you become an intimacy and relationship coach? I mean, that's a big question. So I started off as a sort of classic psychotherapist therapist dealing with your sort of usual anxiety addiction stress etc and then i thought let me jazz this up a little bit let me learn about the world of intimacy and and yeah many moons ago i decided that i wanted to sort of go on that journey and i think also because a lot of the clients i worked with it always kind of came up the sort of topic around intimacy so oftentimes they'd come to me to talk about anxiety and then somewhere down the line intimacy issues would sort of creep in so and here I am the intimacy coach and it's your fifth year on Married at First Sight just what is it like being part of that whole program because talk about kind of household show I mean everybody loves it so much yeah it's done amazingly you know of course like the Australian version was sort of like the original format and the original version.

3:44That's done so well and it continues to do so well. But I think for the UK version, I don't know if we knew how big it was going to be, but it relates to a lot of people. People, they want to hear what the experts have to say. I think a lot of people have said that my face expression always gives me away.

4:04Georgia Dayton: It is such a mad experiment, isn't it? Isn't it? it's such I've I'm fascinated by how you know like you compare someone to get you know put people together and on paper they should really work because of this this and this and then all of this other stuff comes up that but then sometimes it does work and you're like wow yeah it's crazy isn't it yeah and there's this whole thing about the spark you know so we can match people and they'll be like oh there isn't much of a spark there but there isn't always that openness to allow the spark to sort of come right so it's like they shut it off before they give themselves a chance to really let them I suppose let themselves see if it can grow and it's always exciting so I feel like every week there's like a different kind of shock for us so week one you're like yeah they're getting on really well week two they're like they haven't been in the same apartments for the last few days you're just like oh my gosh what just happened and then week three they're in love again so I suppose it just reflects real life right I mean I think today's Q &A is going to go down an absolute storm I think lots of conversations especially when you have children what happens to your relationship and what happens to the intimacy and also the friendship and also kind of navigating how to do life with somebody such a big topic um I had some girlfriends around on Friday night for for a few drinks and a lot of um the conversation was focused on how they almost feel frightened to give their partner a bit of physical connection i just maybe even holding hands or giving them a kiss because they're instantly concerned that that is going to have to lead to some level of physical you know sex and and actually we need that non-sexual physical touch more than maybe potentially men do and so i really there have been a few questions around that today definitely and also i think when you've had kids sometimes you don't you genuinely don't have the energy you know when they get older yes but when you know they're a few months old that's just not on the radar and then i think it puts people off any like you know physical connection because they think oh my god no it's gonna have to leave the sex i can't be bothered with that so just don't come near me just don't do you hear that a lot charlie oh absolutely absolutely i mean it's interesting just hearing the feedback from the two of you because the clients that I've worked with, there's so many women that will say that when they have a baby, like literally their whole world changes, like they are, like their baby needs everything from them, like absolutely everything in a way that they've never experienced before.

6:37And then, you know, good old husband comes along and they want, you know, intimacy and there's just nothing more to give. And so you do have to kind of change the relationship a little bit, even temporarily, just to meet the needs of both parties. But I feel like there isn't much sympathy there for the poor old guy that, you know, isn't kind of, whose intimacy has changed. And they're like, hey, like, I love my baby, I love my woman, but like, I'd like a little bit of like intimacy as well. And it is about communication and it is about compromise. And, you know, for a lot of people, those two C's don't form part of the relationship dynamic, unfortunately.

7:15It's a big conversation. Let's kick it off. My partner and I argue about the small things constantly. What's the one communication tool that you recommend to stop things escalating, which they normally do? That's from Becca. I think being really mindful of the language that we use when we communicate. So I worked with a couple recently and the woman said, like, obviously, you know, I won't say the guy's name. let's call him Bob and she said you know Bob you just need to and I said look let me just stop you there because if you use language like you need to what you're saying is that you're above him and you're telling him what to do and even if you are the most secure person in in life you are going to be naturally defensive if someone tells you what you need to do if you're if you're both adults right I think in terms of communication we have to be more mindful of the language that we use so that it doesn't feel like your partner is being blamed or that you know more than them but more kind of like okay how do we move forward with this you know use more the we language that usually means that it's going to end in something less explosive yes okay yeah yeah

8:25Georgia Dayton: absolutely um someone who's put i just want to be listened to not offered solutions or fixes how do i explain that without sounding like i'm being overly sensitive well look I mean this whole over sensitive over emotional term you know as much as I absolutely adore men usually that comes from men who will say to women hey don't be so over emotional and then the woman is very much like okay I just need to hold back on being emotional I think I think the key is to share what you need from a partner so it might be reminding them that hey like I want to share something with you right now and I know that your go-to might be to fix it and maybe there's a partner that wants you to fix it but in this moment can I just please ask that you just hear me and and help me to understand how I'm feeling like validate how I'm feeling so that might feel a bit strange to say that to a partner but really if that's not their go-to you might have to remind them before you start sharing how you feel.

9:28It's a really kind of interesting sort of knife edge moment isn't there where you're looking to your partner to heal you or comfort you in that moment you might be upset about something you might have mum guilt you know you might feel like you've been let down by a mate and sometimes when they don't give you the response that you're looking for so in your mind you've already preempted that actually you know what you want them to say and when they don't say it or whether in your mind they minimize it or they undermine it it can make you feel even worse. Sometimes I just think you're not looking always to your partner to make you feel better, that sometimes you might be better off going to your mate.

10:06You know, I let Kit down and I wasn't there for him for his mini Olympics. I'd volunteered, work came up, I had to go to work. And I rung up Dozza and said, I am utterly broken that I've let him down. And I was in floods of tears. And he was like, stop being so silly. Like, just what are you talking about? Like, don't be silly about it. It's absolutely fine. And I was thinking, don't be silly. and I suddenly thought you're not the right person to hold this in this moment so thank you very much and I'll call my mate who will understand

10:32Georgia Dayton: it's true because I think sometimes we think that the partner we choose to do life with should be able to give us everything and they can't I can't do everything for James, I can't play golf with him or whatever he wants to do but equally he can't always sort of understand the wavelength I'm on and I need to rant to Zoe or I need to rant to my mum or whatever. I think we're told that our partners should be everything for us they should be able to provide absolutely everything for us but the reality is that they also come with like you know their life experiences as well so they can't offer everything to us and again sort of you know stereotypically speaking guys are sometimes known to not always be the most sensitive even though what they say you know can come from a good kind place they're not known to be overly sensitive at times and so it might be that you have to go to your girlfriends to share something or your mother or your father or whatever it may be to get what you need um and also um i suppose we also need to do more work on ourselves i think around sort of self-soothing you know be able to kind of sit with the emotions sit with a feeling um you know maybe look to podcasts or relate you know other spaces as well to kind of self-soothe that's true really great advice actually yeah um should we do this one should we break up if we are constantly arguing and in front of the kids and we're just not affectionate I think I'd probably need more information than than that but what I would say would based on that is that if you're not hearing each other and it's just constant rage then that would communicate that something needs to be done here you know the way that you're doing it isn't working so it might be that a facilitator you know a therapist might be needed just to help you to learn the tools around communicating in terms of listening etc I'm reminded of a couple I worked with recently um that when they were arguing in front of me even when I put my hand up say hey okay stop because that was the agreement I put my hand up when it got too much they couldn't even see or hear me in that they were so enraged and I think for a lot of us we haven't learned the tools of like managing conflict because we haven't seen it growing up oftentimes and so and so the key is to learn the tools of conflict management but that might be with a facilitator so I think in terms of the answer of whether we should break up I don't know if I can say yes or no what I will say though is it isn't healthy having any kind of unhealthy conflicts in front of children that that can potentially damage children.

13:14And is there such thing as healthy conflict? Yeah. Yeah talk me through that. Well I think the thing is this we're not going to always see things eye to eye so I think it's important to you know if you have a difference of opinion to be able in a kind of healthy way where you can sit down where you can listen to each other listen to people to each other's point of view and then together come to a conclusion how do we move forward with this sometimes those kind of situations do help you to feel closer to a partner it helps you to understand them more it helps them to understand you where you're coming from where they're coming from i think and we see this a lot on married at first sight when couples don't have any arguments you absolutely see paul mel and i our face expressions will be like okay we're just waiting to see like what's going on here yeah because you know in a way a test of a relationship is can you get through some of those hurdles and get through those difficult times if you are having no arguments and for years on end it's just smooth I'd be saying to myself who's compromising here like whose needs aren't really being met here

14:19Georgia Dayton: like what I'd be wondering what's going on yeah I do think it's funny when you hear people who go we just don't argue yeah warning warning warning who are you shagging but how like i mean how i always i'm also intrigued i'm like but what do you mean like we can argue over like the smallest thing i can't imagine not i don't actually argue with anyone else no you don't like i literally don't but i think you know i think it's important for us to get the balance right because i think if you have no arguments there's definitely some warnings bells there right but also if you're arguing a lot you have to kind of think about what's going on there is there like a power struggle do I not feel listened to do I need to feel more in control do I feel undermined like you you know that communicates something as well so you kind of want to get the balance right you know the middle ground because otherwise yeah there might be something going on and otherwise and let's be honest it's absolutely okay to bring things up about you know the way that you guys are running the house for example the way that you're parenting the kids you know the way that you're feeling about your intimacy or your relationship but sometimes it's quite hard to do that in a safe space where you feel that it doesn't have to blow up into world war three that you can comment on the fact that he doesn't keep putting the toothbrush back on the toothbrush charger and that's really fucking irritating which i had to do last night and actually to be fair to him he just took it and went okay yeah i wouldn't even been able to be brave enough to do that two years ago yeah but after therapy guys i can now but the thing is sometimes you could have said that and it would have gone the other way I think that's the thing that's the learning isn't it it's like to know when is the right time to bring something up timing is key but also like our tone of voice the way that we deliver something our choice of words like there's so much in saying like hey can you just put the you know the toothbrush back on the charger that can be like that can create a real explosive argument or can just kind of create a kind of oh babe like you know, would you mind if, you know, because this is a bit frustrating for me sometimes, like sometimes that can land a little bit easier than, for goodness sake, just put the toilet.

16:24Georgia Dayton: Put the teeth on the charger. We'll be right back after this short break.

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17:39welcome back to this episode of made by mamas now where were we somebody's put here my husband has been out of work since the beginning of the year and has lost all his mojo please can you help help in terms of how to bring them bring the mojo back i think between the two of them yeah i think one thing to say it's it could be really difficult when life happens right like in terms of like health issues financial issues losing jobs and it can take away a part of your identity as well if that's kind of all that you've known so I think it's not always so easy to just kind of find your mojo when life is lifing as we say but I think that if you can find moments where you can maybe have like date nights away from your home environment where you can just spend time together again and do something fun something interactive something playful it does give you a moment where you can be reminded of what you have as a couple um and I think for so many couples whether life is lifing or not we forget that sometimes we forget what it was like when we were dating where it was just playful and fun and I think we need to be reminded of that every now and again we love that because play is the most for me is the most beautiful important sort of uplifting moment when we're all just being silly and we're being almost childlike together and we're giggling and laughing and you know we stop doing that don't we because we start lifing happens and yeah and then we just become a bit serious serious exactly you know and like you know when you look at like a little child just the fun i've got a two-year-old niece and i just i can just watch her for it forever she's everything is exciting her dress is pretty the floor's exciting like the taste of things is exciting and i feel like we lose that a little bit you know we lose that excitement of life because well because life happens

19:29Georgia Dayton: you um you just touched on how arguing in front of the kids can be calm for and someone's actually written and written in and said what harm does constant arguing forward slash shouting etc in front of young kids actually do wow I could write a whole book on this I mean you know it it creates a template where children feel like you know this is what relationships should be you know it can I mean in so many ways you know you can get a little girl for example that if they're hearing a lot of arguing or little boy that they grow up grow up quite scared and quite anxious um they could choose partners that are aggressive because that's what they're familiar with um it can send a very powerful message that in order to communicate something you have to shout it can make them resent authority you know so in the workplace or yeah or in school they can struggle with that I mean the list goes on in terms of the damage but I think that when I work with a lot of adults that have experienced parents that have been in conflict one thing that they would always say is that they felt quite unseen that their parents didn't realize the emotional impact that the arguing had on them and their needs weren't met as a result so they then grow up kind of not knowing how to prioritize their needs because no one else ever did so I mean I can literally write a whole book on it it is so damaging um equally it's you know I'm not saying to kind of like cover up if you're frustrated with your partner because that's not great either because that's not real life but what you want to show them is that we can maybe argue we can take accountability we can say sorry we can mend we can make up we can acknowledge the impact it has had on you it's all those things that we need in the space as opposed to what a lot of us experience which is shouting parents door slamming yeah and pet and children not being sure how to interpret all of that yeah someone's put here how important are people's love languages to each other can you explain it it's definitely a buzzword at the moment yes so I always laugh about this because on on Merrily at First Sight now I don't know if they ever show this they probably wouldn't um so but we Paul Mel and I always have this kind of little debate about love languages because I absolutely love love languages um Paul will say there's no science to it uh I think Mel will probably just roll her eyes up what is this so it's always quite funny but I think what I find useful about is when I work with couples that are just like where they feel like my partner doesn't really show much love to me I think the model of love languages kind of helps a little bit um so for example one of the tasks I'll always give couples is if you know your partner's love language is I don't know physical touch can you incorporate that in the week a little bit more knowing that that's important to them equally if acts of service is really important can you be a more thoughtful about things that you can do for them, you know, that show your love for them.

22:30And that they find to be quite helpful. So it's not for everyone, but I think it's a great tool to get you to understand that actually your partner may not be showing you love in a way that you're familiar with, but actually they are showing you love. Yeah. I feel like I got served the most beautiful dose of my love language this morning by Doz when I told him that I was having heart palpitations and I felt very anxious today because I've got a big week and lots of moving parts he came over to me quite quietly rubbed my shoulders at the front and he said shall we breathe together I hear that you're really stressed and anxious and he said I just want you to know I've got you this week whatever support you need I'm there for you and I was like he's talking my love language like it was amazing it wasn't like trying to reach around and touch my bum hole it was like that's his love language he's got me there like it was really really beautiful yeah yeah thanks I think we need him as like the fourth expert on that at first sight.

23:28He got it right in that way.

23:29Georgia Dayton: It's nice to do some support with that. Okay. Emotional affairs, advice, please. Can we come back from one? Just explain what an emotional affair is. Yeah. So I suppose it's, you know, having conversations, sharing vulnerable information with sometimes, sometimes people at work, for example, you might be sharing very vulnerable information about your relationship about your your life about your insecurities your fears and sometimes you're sort of making sandwiches for people at work so you're not physically having an affair you're not sleeping with them necessarily you're not kissing them or anything like that are you sexting usually from an emotional affair point of view that wouldn't be counted as as as an emotional affair um that's probably more kind of from the sort of physical affair point of view but i think emotional affair it's kind of like it kind of can go under the radar where it could be seen as just a friendship that you know something that you really get on well with but you know deep down there's more of an emotional connection and a dependence on each other um so it's something it feels a bit different um the question sorry was it just says can we come back from one again probably need a bit more information in terms of what we're looking at here but I think that if you acknowledge and identify that what you've got is a bit of an emotional connection with somebody what you'd need to be looking at is what am I not getting from my partner um and kind of work out what's going on here and I would say as soon as you realize that you're doing it to stop to kind of like you know reel it in and to look at what you're not getting from your partner try and work on that and build on that I think this person is it has experienced an emotional affair from her partner yeah I think so yeah I know I'm reading it but yeah I don't know if it's that way around I would say that it's important to bring it to their attention and to challenge it um I think one thing that I would say is that so many of us are scared to create boundaries in our relationships because we don't want to be seen as being a bit too much so um social media is a really important one where if your partner is clicking like on pictures of you know naked people or you know the fire emoji and things like that if that doesn't make you feel uncomfortable if that doesn't make you feel comfortable it's important to address it if you don't it kind of seeps into your relationship in another way resentment you know distance not feeling close to them not wanting to be intimate with them giving them the side eye when they are just about to go out the door where you're like I don't know about you you know it's important to address it and to be and to be confident in what your boundaries are like you know that there's nothing wrong in that if you don't like your partner clicking like on random people then say it and if they respect you enough they should stop yeah there's this whole thing isn't there and actually someone has put the nagging wife um here someone's put how to ask how to ask and communicate rather than bottle up annoyances but also not be a nagging wife and I hate that me too but I do think that you know things like that And I think maybe that's where like the emotional affairs and stuff sort of get pushed away because people don't feel like they can be like, do you know what?

26:39Georgia Dayton: I don't actually like that because on paper or to other people, they think that that's all right. But it's individual, right? What one person is comfortable with, someone else isn't. And that's all right. Yeah. And also this term nagging, you know, if we kind of like dissect what that word actually means, it's having to repeat yourself or say something over and over and over again. now most people don't want to keep saying things over and over and over again so if you're listened to and you felt heard valued validated the first time around oftentimes you won't need to say it again so I think as a couple if you feel like somebody is nagging what we need to be thinking about is okay like what is it they're asking for and how do we address this together like that's the healthy way of dealing with a situation like that yeah such good advice yeah because you know you are allowed to bring things up you're allowed to ask things you're allowed to you know it's not this sort of nitpicking and also when you're in love with somebody you're responsible for their heart and they're responsible for yours so actually should be a safe space to have those conversations rather than stop nagging me stop asking me to come back early or stop telling me to text you if you want me in at a certain time it's like yeah that's kind of just what we do it's respect yeah yeah exactly we'll be right back after this short break

27:57Hi, this is Monica Reinagle of Nutrition Diva. Today's show is sponsored by Nature Raised Farms. Grocery shopping can be a little overwhelming, especially if you're reading labels. And in my opinion, chicken shouldn't be complicated, which is why I appreciate Nature Raised Farms. It's chicken that's just chicken, and their lightly breaded chicken nuggets are free from gluten, dairy, and soy. Look for Nature Raised Farms on your next grocery trip and feel more confident about your choices. Thumbtack presents Tile Trouble. Every single time I use my sink, I make eye contact with the uneven grout of my kitchen backsplash.

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29:01Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? Someone said here, friend was having an affair. We supported the husband and now they're back together. It's really, really awkward. Oh, that is awkward. I mean, that is awkward, particularly if you've really given your views on the situation I think that could be really tricky I mean I suppose this is the classic um thing where people say you know when a couple is going through something just I would say not

29:27Georgia Dayton: to get involved but just be careful how you get involved yeah exactly because sometimes they share with the partner everything that you've said um so I think you have to be really careful right so you have to be really careful I think the best that you can do is kind of support the couple from afar you know I think this is less than around not getting involved you know they say what do you think about this just say you know I'm going to trust that you guys can make the best decision for yourselves and I think that you know sort of learn from that and kind of create some distance around giving your opinion when it comes to their relationship yeah I think when you've got like a really close friend and someone has hurt them it's really difficult isn't it just to like think keep your opinion to yourself because in that moment they're upset they're angry like all of these things and it's so easy to be like oh my god yes and what about this and what about that but actually you've got to think how helpful it is you've got to think how helpful that is haven't you and like just almost remind yourself that in that moment you're not there to like add to the fire you're there to like listen absolutely yeah yeah that's a good point I think the key is kind of hold their hand through it in terms of validate how they're feeling now I suppose for maybe from a therapist point of view that's kind of what we do is that probably feels like second nature and I think to your everyday person that doesn't come naturally particularly if you want to defend your friend but I think the best that you can do is say you know like I can imagine how difficult that must feel like that yeah that does feel really challenging so what do you want to do next you know I think it's kind of being with them in that space and until you know for sure they really they really are over and then you can go then you can go and then you can go

31:12let's go to this one separate beds over here as we sleep much better but does it actually work long term with intimacy it can and again we hear this a lot now yeah yeah it definitely can and it's about open communication so i work with lots of couples that due to babies due to snoring due to health conditions they don't sleep in the same bed if that's the case then you have to kind of agree when you will be together so one couple that I know they don't sleep in so it's a bit at night time but they have like Saturday afternoons where they'll be watching a movie together and they might be intimate etc so they've kind of incorporated it in their week and then when it comes to night time they're like giving each other a kiss goodnight and they'll go back to their separate bedrooms and then in the morning once they've had a sleep they'll kind of cuddle in the bed and maybe be intimate or whatever it may be so you have to make sure you have the conversation to keep intimacy alive if that's important for you in your relationship

32:05Georgia Dayton: yeah you probably just have to make more effort I guess would you ever sleep in a separate bed from James um I would actually yeah but I knew you were going to say that no do you know what right so this is such a boring thing to say I'm obsessed with my aura ring and my sleep score and um my husband absolutely hates it because he's always like oh you know you sleep much better when you're naked and I'm like okay well we'll see and I'm like actually actually no I don't the facts tell me I don't so you can forget about that and then we went on holiday and you know sometimes we were staying in a villa and there was only one bed that was an actual double bed and my parents had it and we had the bed that was two singles but they've been pushed together which is fine but they had two separate duvets right and I slept so well like so well my sleep schools were like wow she's obsessed with her sleep you're amazing and um i said to him i was like oh my god this is the answer we don't need to sleep in separate rooms we just need separate duvets and he's like absolutely not no way we're not doing that but i do always get my own way so we'll see um no i'm joking i'm joking but um like yeah joking not joking um but i but i can see how that happens like he doesn't actually snore or like but you know or annoy me but if it was affecting my sleep I definitely would do it yeah would you no no even if it was affecting your sleep so badly um I think I'd get I will sometimes have to put like earplugs in if he snores if he's had a few drinks or whatever or if he's on his back but it doesn't I just I don't yeah maybe I don't know is the answer because it hasn't happened to me yet I think if someone's a really bad snorer or something's you know you just wouldn't want to be in the same room no that would be difficult and the thing is sleep is so important for our well-being our emotional well-being our mental health so it is something that's really important but then you also have to kind of weigh up like you know how important is like kind of the intimacy in the bedroom and and i'm not you know just talking about sex as such but also just being able to cuddle together and you know does that feel quite safe and secure and nice to oh my god it's the best does her and i fall asleep every single night so i sleep on my front we hold hands so if i'm like that we do we hold and we touch feet we hold hands under the pillow yeah it's so nice we've only realized we do this like recently because someone was talking about how they sleep and then when i went to bed the next night i was like oh my god that's what we it's like a dummy it's like a comforter i fall asleep like that knowing that he's right there yeah yeah and usually as you go to deeper sleep you might then find faces made a bit more individual by yourself i think it's a nice way to kind of go into sleep to kind of be connected physically and connected to your partner in that way.

34:56Yeah. It does get quite annoying when he's away, though, because I'm literally like, where's my comforter? Oh, I'm my own person. I can do this by myself.

35:04Georgia Dayton: Fake it hand. Fake it hand, yeah. George, one more. Staying intimate and connected to husband when we are rarely at home together due to shifts. Now, that could be, you know, a whole different loads of scenarios. Like, they've said shifts, but that could be, you know, like working different or kids doing different things or whatever just how how can you keep that relationship solid when you're really low on time so there's a couple of things there so I think that you have to be a bit more creative but you have to both want to do this as well so for some couples I've suggested things like sending like emails to each other like pictures text kind of keeping the flirting alive even when you're not together um things like you know you know your partner's got a busy week a little post-it note with I've got you babe like you've got this put it in their briefcase for example so when they're at a meeting they open a briefcase and that's the first thing they see those types of things are really great um if you live near each other if you um work near each other like going for lunch together is always nice you know if you can have lunch for an hour and then go back to the business of work that can still feel really nice um but if you're not able or willing to put any of those things into place and I always say to couples that I am good at what I do but I'm not a miracle I can't create miracles here um it's going to be impossible right so because you know a great way of connecting with each other and growing is spending time with one another what you're saying is that I can spend lots of time at work I cannot spend lots of time with my partner but then you have to have a conversation with yourself about why you're in a relationship yeah it's weird isn't she some people can work really well not seeing each other much and some people really don't and I always thought like James and I've known James for 20 years we've basically been together on and off for 20 years majority of the 20 years since he was 17 yeah um and we used to think we were really good at being apart and my mum always used to be like oh god you two are such a nightmare when you're apart like you always argue when you're apart and I was like no we're not we love our space we're our own people we love doing our own thing and now as I've got older I'm like oh no we are like I was always so against like his parents who call Harold Harold and Hilda because they do everything together and recently I've been like oh my god that's us like even just like doing food shops together they always go food shopping together and I was like that's fucking weird why are they doing that and now like I don't know I'm going off to do something and i'm like this is jaw dropping for me i'm like george bring georgia back in so weird wow so but maybe it's a time thing so we used to have more time together and now we've got to find the time i think it's cute maybe i don't know but it's a bit weird it's a new um i think also emotional intimacy is like i think people underrate it you know because there's so much focus on the physical intimacy the emotional element of spending time with one another like you know laughing together being silly together grocery shopping together cooking together all those things are so beautiful like if you're spending it with someone that you actually want to spend time with yeah and i think that those like creating that kind of connection creates magic in the bedroom gosh well i think we can all tell why you're so good at what you do thank you for giving us this 45 minutes it was an absolute treat to listen to you and what's some incredible pieces of advice so thank you shawnee yeah you've been brilliant thank you shawnee douglas everyone Yay!

38:38Georgia Dayton: Thank you. Thanks, guys.

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