Friday Q&A: Part 2 Of Our Live Show at The HoT Podcast Festival

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1:02Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review.

1:34You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? What's that phrase that they say with parenting where one minute everything's going really, really well and the other minute it all goes to shit? Is there a phrase for that? I'm not sure, but there should be. Don't get complacent. Is that what he told you? Oh, how the tides have turned. You know how we were talking about that amazing sweet spot of parenting and they were absolutely loving it? My son is being so irritating. He is being awful to me. Tell me. I mean, I know he got you to come and get him from school for being sick last week.

2:13That really made me laugh. I actually love that film. I haven't told everyone what happened, but essentially I got a call from the school saying Kit's feeling very unwell and he looks very peaky and you must come and get him. And I was like, oh gosh, because he was fine a couple of hours ago. Like, is he really ill? And they were like, yeah, no, he looks awful. Pick him up. He gets in the car and he goes, hi, mummy. And I was like, hi. He goes, oh, can we go for a fish finger wrap? Because I'm starving. I was like, but they said you've been sick. And he was like, oh, have I? He lied about being ill because he wanted to spend the afternoon with me on a Friday.

2:48Oh, it's cute. Because he was like, you've been in hospital with Luna and Isla had her operation and I haven't seen you. I mean but that's just the start of it mate he just he won't put his shoes on he's lying about brushing his teeth I mean his teeth are gonna fall out he's he's calling me the worst mum ever he he told me to shush this morning and but essentially it's not funny but I think he might join the manosphere why is he being so mean to me I don't know but I feel like when this stuff happens you have to pretend that you don't care right I think that's the way isn't it I feel like when they do things like that you've got to pretend you don't care and you've got to pretend you're not bothered I will care when I get a bill for his fillings though yeah has he still got baby yeah yeah yeah he's lost like five be like fine okay fine don't brush your teeth oh it's just weird I don't know what's going on with him but I just think it's really interesting that one minute you can come on this podcast and be like everything is so great and then the week later you can think your whole world is over like a hundred percent that's that is the thing isn't And that is the thing where we don't actually record to the day.

3:55So people listening to this will be like, oh, you said, you know, on Tuesday, everything was great. And then they listen to the next episode and you're like, oh, I hate this. What is my life? I often think of that phrase when I drop them off at school and we used to say to each other, be like, I didn't sign up for this shit. Yeah, that's what I that's what I often think to myself. What is this? Leave me alone. What is this life? Yeah, what is this? Are you okay, George? I'm good. I'm fine. Yeah. I don't know, really. Just life is going very quick and everything feels really fast. You've had so many events.

4:34You've been a super duper businesswoman in your PR world. I've had lots of work stuff going on. I'm also like now having to go and look at schools properly because we have to apply in October, I think. But like registration for exams and stuff is actually June. so I'm like right okay so I'm thinking of that and then I've got Gigi who again is in the like lying stage of life oh the lying phase the lot we're in the lying phase that is what I would say the thing is is when they lie they then get cross with you because you know they're lying yes yeah then it's our fault they are like yeah they're like almost how dare you how dare you call me out for lying and you and you're looking and I see in Gigi's eyes she's angry at me yeah but yeah like I'll be like oh you said you know I or I find something in her room she's not supposed to have up there and I'm like and I don't even make a big deal I'll go oh Gigi like Why did you have like a pack of Haribos under your pillow?

5:38Like, come on. And then she looks at me like, how dare you look under my pillow? And then how dare you come to me? How dare you challenge me? Yeah. Who even are you? Are you? This morning Kit went, you shush. Oh, God. Let's run away. I'll meet you at Heathrow Terminal 4. Yeah, let's do it. Oh, Jesus Christ. Let's go. We've got to get into this chat, haven't we? Moving from lying swiftly on to two of the most... Lying to lies. That was a good one. We're giving you two live podcasts today that we recorded when we did our live in Henley at the Kenton Theatre. What I love about this is you're going to get two very different podcasts today.

6:24Isn't that right, George? There is something for everyone in this chat. And even if you don't think like I always think, the second half will be for you. It will be because it's so funny. and both are returning guests, and we don't ask people on twice if we don't think they're great, so they are both absolutely brilliant. But yeah, it is an episode of two halves. A podcast for everyone, as Georgia said, and you will notice a slight kind of difference in sound quality because this was live in a theatre in Henley, so stick with it because they're great conversations. Georgia, who are we talking to?

7:02We are chatting to Hayley McQueen and Dr Tara. I just wanted to give a couple of special shout outs this evening, obviously to you guys for coming, who we haven't met in person, who are listening to the podcast. But a special shout out goes to James. George's husband, Judgey James, is in the audience, ladies and gentlemen. Can I just say 80 % of all content on the podcast is James and his cleaning tits. In fact, I just made a suggestion that he should start some sort of like the male Mrs Hinch. Do you know where actually that all originated from? My friend Lucy down here came to stay with us. I don't know if she remembers this, in Glasgow.

7:37And James had just discovered Mrs. Hinch. And he had a whole thing with Lucy for months and months. They would just message each other about SIS. And I would just see the phone, like, pinging up, thinking, what are they talking about? Thank God it's not Ajean Provocateur. So actually, the source was Lucy. so she's actually you know the cleaning content came here which were the scourer all the scourer shout out to james tonight and thank you guys i wanted to also just point out two of my amazing mum mates because we do discuss this a lot on the podcast that your mum friends who you make when your kids go to school become your lifeline and there's two special women sitting in the audience tonight who are regularly getting frantic phone calls from me going fuck fuck fuck i can't make can you pick up the kids and they've got it every single time more than that they sit in the kitchen on a friday night and we put the world's right so um ladies thank you so much for being here love you though right i've got my cup of tea she's always drinking tea in my roots well in my roots i am a northern old lady um and i can't get by without this so we've got a couple of guests coming up that we've actually had on the podcast before but there is nothing like getting people in the flesh and I mean who knows we don't know what's going to come up do it I mean all we can tell you is that the second guest tonight who came on the podcast last time was the most wonderfully outrageous and brilliant person so it's going to be a bit risque we're just going to say that just be prepared um for now though let's get into our first guest for her role as lead anchor on Sky Sports News and her calm composed presence on screen she has made everybody fall in love with her.

9:19I love watching her as a viewer, especially when covering high pressure sporting events. She is a mother. She is a career woman. And she's always been so open about how she juggles everything from being a woman in a male, very male industry. We're really excited to welcome it's Hayley McQueen to the stage.

9:39And didn't she look gorgeous? Sit down. There you go. I'm having a lovely cup of tea with you, mate. I know. It's so weird being on the other side because it's normally me asking questions. Of course. Do you want to do it? We'll just sit back. That'll be fine. So actually, the last time we had you in the podcast, it was over Zoom, I think. Yeah. It wasn't in flesh, so it's lovely to have you. Yeah, it might have been COVID time. I think it was. I didn't want to say COVID on such a nice night. I don't want to swear. I think it was. Talk to us about your role as mum and having this amazing career.

10:15We always talk about the juggle, but what is it like? What is a typical day like for you? Oh, my gosh. So I work on Sky Sports and I'm an anchor on news. And I've actually been at Sky for, oh, my God, 15 years, which is a bit wild. I probably should have gone and tried a few other things. But I'm safe and I love it. I love the unpredictable nature of breaking news and I love tons of different sport. And maybe at a time when I thought that I might venture off elsewhere to do something a little bit different, I decided to have a family instead. I had my little one a little bit later in life at 39 so she's she's just turned six and I have been working in sports since oh my god since I left uni in 2002 doing lots of different roles behind the scenes eventually working in front of of camera and I now present our breakfast show every morning which is great fun because I'm freed up for the rest of the day but I'm absolutely knackered yeah about 4 p.m just when my child is home from school and wants me to be mine and she's yeah um that is hard because I get up a quarter to four oh my god it's like being on a bender without any of the fun it is isn't it yeah perimenopausal had lots of stresses in life I lost my dad a couple of years ago and it's a bit of a complicated situation we've just had an inquest into his death so like all of that my mum's sadly got Alzheimer's so I've cared kind of for both parents whilst having a little one whilst trying to maintain friendships and a career and life and a career where in broadcasting as a woman and you get older if you work in sky news you're okay because the older you are the more experienced you are and the more respected you are but i kind of feel in sports it's like it's always like there were newer younger shinier things coming through and that's great because there's space for all of us but you do feel as you get a little bit older and particularly I'm 46 now I you do worry and think oh god like is my time coming to the end does Sky promote I mean listen um yeah I'm trying to like stir the pot but is that something that they want you to feel in sports I'm not talking specifically about Sky but women in sport is that is that what they want are they are they trying to compete us against each other or is it I think there was a time when that was absolutely correct but I love the fact that when Gary Lineker left match of the day they appointed gabby logan yeah mark chapman a hugely respected male and kelly kate who i like she's one of my really good friends she's just absolutely brilliant i was like okay oh this whole thing i'm off to present match of the day anytime soon i'm kind of fine with where i am but that i kind of look at those as sort of the benchmark of where it's nice to be as a 50 year old woman sort of heading towards that and the next chapter that's not the end of a chapter but there may still be doors that open and I'm really grateful that BBC did that I have certainly pushed for doing a little bit more live sport at times in my life when I wasn't experienced enough and they're like no no don't don't run before you can walk whereas there are probably females now who have been given an opportunity who maybe had less experience right you have to give someone the chance to get that experience as a catch-22 talk to us about the changes you've seen like across your career with women in sport oh god I mean it's been absolutely monumental I think the fact that we're watching more women's sport and therefore there are more women involved in women's sport certainly help there's a place for women in men's sport a place for women in women's sport and men in women's sport as well despite what any Iluca might say if any of you were into sport and another situation this week she was a former footballer who thinks there's should be a no space for men in women's sport.

13:49That's been a big storyline this week, right? It has. It's been a bit of a crazy one to watch and see play out because as a woman who has a little girl, I want her to look up to other women and play sport. But you want young boys to look up to women as well. And you want them to see that their sisters can equally play football as they can and that there should be space and room for women in the game. And if you've got someone like Ian Wright is such an incredible ambassador for women's football and sport and is on ITV and works on the Men's World Cup, but equally in the Women's Euros and Women's World Cup.

14:22Now, he's a cool guy and he's got young guys looking at him thinking, well, if he's interested in women's sport, I should be as well. So I think they're the flag bearer and we shouldn't gatekeep women's sport just for women. Yeah, it's really interesting because, you know, like from an outsider, I don't watch loads of sport. So if someone said to me, oh, you know, women should only present women's sport and men should present men's sport. I might be like, oh, right. Yeah. You know, maybe I don't know. But you make such a good point that it's about getting men interested in women's sport and that it's not always down to women to be charging the change.

14:58It's down to men to charge ahead and make the change. And it is such a such a good point. And seeing so many more female role models. Back when I grew up in the 80s, you could barely list female sporting role models. But there were so many men, whereas these women are now household names. The lionesses are household names. We're seeing a lot more female tennis players who earn equally to men. So many other sports as well that we can look up to. But the whole language around women in sport and girls in sport has changed. Remember when it used to be slung out like a bit of mud? Like, oh, you run like a girl.

15:33It's like, look, all right, I run like a girl. I'm really fast. I'm much faster than you. Let's have a race. I mean, I'm a girl. I'm a girl. So I think the whole language around, you know, women in sport in general and what it is to be a female playing sport, let alone, you know, presenting it as well. Yeah. I wasn't good enough at any sports. I thought, I'll just present it instead. I've had a dad who had played football. I was the eldest of the three kids. My mum, absolute nutcase. Played for Manchester United. Oh, he did. Yeah, he did. Very proudly Scotland, hence the accents a bit mixed up.

16:03I have no idea where I'm from either. I've got my TV voice. If you tune into Sky, I'm like, oh, welcome to Sky Sports News. Yeah, the Scottish and the Teesside and the whatever else there is thrown in, the Mancunian. It kind of goes out the window, but who knows where I'm from. But yeah, I grew up with a dad who played sport and coached it and managed it. And I was the eldest of three kids because, yeah, I was saying my mom was so crazy. She had three kids under the age of four. So the babies, my sister and brother were left at home and I just got to hang out with my dad. And he took me to training to Manchester United.

16:38Yeah, which was cool. And I grew up just loving it, living it, knowing about it. So it kind of was a natural thing for me. Well, what do you think happens to girls that get to sort of around, because we know the stats are really high, that sort of 12, 13-year-old girls, their sport just drops off, right? You know, you can be competing at a really high level and then suddenly it's all gone. What's happening there, do you think? I mean, it's still women in sport conduct surveys quite often. There was a recent one. I did print off some stats, actually. one in three girls aged 14 to 18 will completely quit playing sport completely quit playing sport 43 percent of primary school girls who consider themselves sporty give up at the end of primary school and focus on their academia instead and by the age of 14 girls drop out of sports at twice the rate of boys in fact 64 percent of completely quit sport by the age of 17 and we're still seeing this when you're looking at i mean i know the lionesses it's great to hold them up because they're just wonderful i love every little generation that we've gone through with you know their successes in the euros um and major tournaments there's not just football out there for girls there are so many other sports that you compete in as well but i body image getting your periods yeah being self-conscious having developed at different ages and having boobs and being uncomfortable about the way that your body is being in a changing room environment as well and getting change in front of other girls even though they might be your classmates you're not used to kind of stripping off and and you know changing your sportswear in and of and that's enough to put a young girl off from you know what you're gonna say do you know what else i wonder as well and i don't know because our daughters are very similar ages gg like likes to pigeonhole but what type of girl you are there is no she says i'm a sassy girl oh yeah right she's a sassy she goes i'm a sassy girl but she's a sporty girl oh and on someone else's oh you know she's a good girl and she's a this and they sort of i think it's to do like role play no not me i'm a good girl i'm a sporty girl no um but i find it really interesting and like the my son doesn't do that at all like he might say oh you know oh he's a gamer or he's you know he's this that's what his interest is but I think with girls like it's almost like they try to fit into something like their interests are I don't know sort of yeah they they want to have an identity maybe yeah and it really surprised me when she says no no no I'm a sassy girl I'm not a sporty girl you could say sassy girls also play sport yeah I don't know if those sorts of conversations come up at all yeah i put ayla in choir because i just i just wanted that extra four 45 minutes at the end of school to pick her up at four instead of four past three no judgment you're in the right crowd of people it's like she'll just do choir it's great she's not a kid that does any out of school activity she's quite anxious she's very clingy she's an only child we don't have both me and my other half lost um both of our parents over a couple of years his mom is unfortunately abroad so we don't have that network around as i rely on my community my neighbors my other school mums but in that reception you like you don't have those relationships yet and she was just very mummy mummy mummy you take her to a club but you get to sit and watch you get to sit and watch so I was like you're gonna go to choir and then she was like I don't want to be one of the choir girls right I'm not a choir girl I want to be a lego girl so now she does lego club and I'm like oh cool it's like why do you like lego club she's like oh because it's the cool boys go to me oh girl you were talking to us about your daughter backstage and you were saying that she's that she's got something is it sensory clothing issues talk to us about that i've never heard about this yeah she's she has a handful of clothes that she will wear and then a few weeks later no i don't like them anymore the amount of money i have spent so i'm just a vintage queen i only buy stuff on vintage because if i buy it new but you have to cut the tags out for her to even put it on her body yeah so then you cut the tags out she doesn't like the feel you have to take it back i'm like how much money am i spending in these shots okay and she has there was a there was a period of time where she would only wear this one t-shirt and i was like i should just buy things that i really like the look of but no we were in sainsbury's and she saw the lilo and stitch t-shirt um why is it always the rudy shit clothing that they like yeah and then lilo and stitch it's nice but it was just very emblemy very bright yes and she would wear that every single day to the point i was like one night i hand washed it and put it on the radiator and then ironed it because i knew that the next day there was going to be a meltdown this was during the summer holidays but she didn't have that lilo and stitch thing she wouldn't you know there was nothing she could possibly wear she sleeps naked every night she will not put clothes on wow even in the winter no no no so my heating bill is up here the clothing bill is vinted um yeah it's wild the seams that the the the labels um she is that like uh you know it's a thing apparently i was like maybe it's like there's more to it there's nothing else like massively wrong with it she has little quirks she like does little blink there's a different quirk every few months she does a little blink or she'll like she did a little thing where she just like dropped to the floor and then just stand up so in her in her nativity i could see all the kids are like they're five they're like up and down and moving and wriggly and she would just like drop to the ground and stand up but i could see it and notice it but nobody else could but it's when she's like nervous and anxious so she does she is a little anxious kid she doesn't do it all the time she doesn't have major twitches she learned the f word this actually this is a funny one oh my god oh god so and that obviously what's that like when your kids learn those words but she kept saying it i like you can't say it you can't she was like and she was learning to spell and i went into her room and she got one of the sharpies and she had written f on her tony box on the wall and she went i can't it can't come out my mouth so it has to come out

22:50but she's not said it in class the teacher said she does like cover her mouth and try to stop herself but that disappeared but that was building up to like nativity then it was like a choir recital thing and she got this dropping to the floor thing that just it disappeared and now like she'll grow out of it i've looked i thought do i get a specialist do i seek help she'll just grow out of course she will she's fine the clothes that one day she'll want to wear nice clothes i hope she's in doc martin sandals at the moment which were hand-me-downs from my sister because She found that bag. You know the bag that you get?

23:22Oh, God, don't. That you get given by a kind older child. Yeah, I know. Or a grandparent. And you've been great. I've just got to hand this over to someone else now. She found it. I was going to, like, siphon it off. Other kids. Yeah. Charity shop. No. She found it. It's the worst is when you open the door and the grandparents are there and they go, oh, I've bought a few things. Oh, fucking don't come in this fucking house. And they go, oh, look at this. It's a union dress. Jess, Jess, Geri Halliwell had one. No, but she's wearing it around, zigzag-a-zig-a. You're thinking, right, when she goes to bed, I'm burning it.

23:55I think she has no chance with Gigi's clothes. Like, at all, none. I do wonder, like, where do they get their ideas from? Because maybe you, they wear mini-stats. She loves a mini-stats. Teach him young. Yeah, go on. I was going to ask, because annoyingly, we're having to, like, we've got sort of times for this thing, which is really annoying, because we can sit here all night. the best piece of advice that you've been given or the piece of advice that you'd like to give our audience oh my gosh and it was something that my dad said and it was career related but actually now it can be mum related and it was when I was at the stage of my career when I was looking at what other you always do you look at oh but they're doing this and they're doing that he said Hayley stop it just give it up forget what anyone else is doing do not my dad's not like an advicey type guy football beer go here yeah he was like just forget about what anyone else is doing because someone will look at you and think what you have is incredible and someone will look at you and think what your job is like what they would love and dream to be doing so remember you are living someone else's dream and then that is someone else's dream that is hosting on itv or presenting on a world cup i've never worked on a major tournament for a host broadcaster he's like does it matter what does it matter he said one day when you're really old what you've had you've got a happy life stop comparing and I do that with motherhood this kid's doing this or I've sadly I've only managed to have one child but thank god I have the one child it wasn't possible for me to have another one but I'm so grateful and I'm one of three and I always wanted three kids maybe four kids I'd have an actual breakdown I wouldn't be here on the stage but now you've got one I've got one and she's wonderful and being an only child is great yeah so stop comparing yourself stop thinking that you want someone something that someone else has got because actually what you have treasure it because somebody else would love what you have oh hayley comparison is the thief of joy i love that ladies and gentlemen massive round of applause we'll be right back after this short break if your skincare isn't working you're probably skipping one essential step gentle daily exfoliation bare-faced toning pads remove dry dead skin cells so the rest of your routine can actually work.

26:11They help reduce clogged pores, improve tone and texture, and leave skin looking smoother and clearer without irritation. One of these sells every three minutes. They have over 653 ,000 five-star reviews, and the results speak for themselves. If you want real results and a routine you'll actually stick to, start here. Visit barefaced.com and use code SKIN15 for 15 % off plus free shipping. Barefaced. Less steps. Better skin. The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports. Right now, the NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself.

26:58That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real-time scores, breaking news, and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment. A Rayo Original Podcast. Hello, I'm Pete Wicks, and my podcast, Man Made, is back for Series 2. I'm sitting down with more of my mates and famous faces to talk modern masculinity. Who we are, who we want to be, and how we get there. Am I enough as any of these things? Am I any good at these things? Anger takes the place, I think, for men.

27:34Listen to Pete Wick's Man Made now. New episodes every Wednesday on the Rayo app, Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

27:49Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? Time for our second guest. Buckle up. She is the resident relationship expert and psychologist on the popular reality TV show, Celebs Go Dating. I'm getting goosebumps already. Where she provides guidance and advice to the celebrity participants who are navigating the world of dating, helping them better understand themselves, emotions, behavior, and the dynamics of relationships. It is going to be a wonderful conversation. Please welcome to the stage, Dr. Tara. Yay! Yay! Yay! Hello. Hi. Hello. Oh my God. Welcome back. Hello. now i just always like to ask georgia before we start talking about sex how are you feeling you all right i'm okay yeah i'm good deep breath i'm a pro now i've been on the podcast many times exactly i'm relaxed i'm chilling you seem relaxed really relaxed and yeah do you want to kick us off i'm gonna kick us off because we think we know everything about our guests and we don't because tonight you we met you over here we were like tara how are you so lovely to meet you you introduced us to your partner of eight months and then you said this is my partner but my husband is in la yeah turn off everything and we didn't know this and you said oh have i spoken to you about it on the podcast how have we not covered this before talk to us about the situation well i mean um my husband and i has always been in an em relationship which is ethical non-monogamy meaning that we're allowed to date other people but everything is above the board board very honest communicative um and yeah like so it's it's been it's been like that for a long time i've been with my husband for six years um but it's always it's always like one man's enough You don't have to marry the other one.

29:52They're just your partner. Yeah, well, I mean, it's been casual like that for a long time until recently I met my now partner eight months ago and it's becoming very serious. And so I had to have this conversation with my husband and say, hey, like, you know, this happened. And so we transitioned into polyamory, meaning that I date both of them so I have a husband and a boyfriend oh my god I mean I've got so many questions like how does that conversation start like how does this how does you know you meet your partner yeah you're married yeah but did like do you have to be up from yeah do you have to be up from are you yeah well I'm married with a caveat of we've always been in an open marriage so this is not like my first ever partner but it is the first ever serious relationship outside of my marriage you have to talk about that before you get married right you can't just drop it into conversation no no one day I dropped I met this person and now this is my boyfriend you on it are you you with it uh no we when we met when my husband and I met way back, we met on the understanding of we both want to be in a monogamish relationship.

31:17Monogamish, which I talk extensively about in my book, because I think a lot of people don't know. They think it's either you're in a monogamous relationship, which is the traditional relationship, one partner, or you have to be this like open, have sex with everyone type of relationship, but it's not at all. Like we've been in a monogamish since we met. Right. And it's been years as monogamish, which is like 90 % just like our daily life is the same. It's like a monogamous couple. Well, everything that you would do, you know, you go to the shops, you pay bills, you know, you don't do the all the unsexy things and sexy things.

31:53But the thing is that there is the 10 % of openness towards potentially meeting other people and casually seeing other people until last year and I talk about this transparently the change from the casual to the okay now I also have a partner here now you are obviously a professor an expert in sex and relationships and intimacy and connection I think as as busy mums and being married for a long time is it normal for sex to drop off and how can we I hate using this word but like how can we really get that spark and connection back with our partners because I think a lot of people we hear it a lot on the podcast through dms that that has just died a death and it's a bit scary oh first of all it's completely normal it's completely normal to go from you know um lots of sex at the beginning and then less sex and then no sex at all for a while and then a bit more sex and then no sex again and then a bit more sex and then a bit more sex when we go on vacation and then not no sex again like completely normal to be on this sex no sex roller coaster this is life right i think movies and tv shows they romanticize these relationships and like the only valid way to have a sex life is to have that passionate hot sex where you're just dripping wet all the time and that's not true she didn't say it's this day right you guys got the disclaimer but that's the thing is like you can have an amazing sex life meaning that your sexual well-being is intact prioritized and you feel close intimacy with your partner and that doesn't come from these like roller coaster sex like passionate, bar, lift up the skirt.

33:33It's not. It's actually, they come from what I call micro-romantics. Micro-romantics are these like two minutes in a day where you just cuddle a little bit longer. Maybe 30 seconds of writing a quick note like, I love you and I appreciate you. Maybe it's offering to do something that you were supposed to do that day, but you seem you seem really busy and tired I'll do it for you it's these micro romantic gestures that amount into oh I kind of have a desire for you right that's key isn't it the desire because when the desire goes that's the first thing when the desire goes then then you have no motivation to have sex right when people say look I you know I want to have sex with my husband but I just like I have no motivation like I have no desire I often say well maybe create desire and creating desire comes from two aspects you and you and them so it's personal and interpersonal the personal part is to always keep like a fire burning not a big flame just a little fire burning and how do you how do you do that Zoe how do you do it how do you do that burning in your crotch at all times I saw it just got a fire in the crotch.

34:49Shit, I thought I was envisioning my embers just burning on the floor, but we're talking about my actual vagina. Even ember is good. Okay, and ember is good. And it's self-pleasure. And it's self-pleasure. It's self-pleasure. Georgia, you're not talking at all. Dr. Tari is going to tell you about her masturbation theory. Yeah. Tell us about your masturbation theory. Which one? I have many. Well, give us a couple. A couple of them. A couple of them would be great. I also gifted my mom, 62 years old. I gifted her her first vibrator. And now she can't stop using it. she uses it every day at first she got it and she's like i don't know how to use it i'm like i can send you a video of me using it so you can learn how to use it and there's the line ladies and gentlemen it's been lovely having you here tonight she was like don't send a video i did not send her no no but i did send her um specific instructions yeah yeah i do think that a woman should experience well you you told us on the podcast that sort of maybe five minutes of masturbation every single day if you are pleasured and you are happy you will want to have sex with your partner or husband more yes once you pop you can't stop oh look at her she is spicy i knew it she's like the girl on the inside on the outside little tigress on the inside i just know look at her outfit she's trying to tell you she's dying to tell you judgey james wishes taking it yeah masturbate um but yeah so the first part is uh making sure that you have that little fire in you you know that's stable maintenance i call it just maintenance masturbation the m &ms you know when you tell your husband i'm gonna go have some m &ms it's maintenance masturbation and to do that you can either manually do it or have a couple of different vibrators and I think I talked about it on the podcast sometimes to have more than one vibrator because what you can have as a problem when you only have one vibrator is you can have what is called idiosyncratic masturbation meaning you get used to that one sensation from the one vibrator and therefore you can't come with your partner right right and there's a lot of women that say I just can't orgasm with my partner like what's what's wrong what's wrong with me what's wrong with him what's wrong with his dick there could be many things wrong with his dick i don't know but at the same time uh it could be that it could be that because your brain actually every time you masturbate right it's a brain activity you get sent like this signal right the pleasure is the pleasure signal yeah and it gives you an orgasm through your brain not your body um so when you get used to that sensation alone like only that sensation then you're not able to gain pleasure from other sensations and that's why I recommend multiple tools in order to not get used to one thing so I think I think this is such an interesting subject for many reasons because I think especially when we become mothers on a serious note we sort of stop thinking that we deserve that it's like everything else comes before us and like maybe in our 20s or when we were single we were doing it all the time and it was sort of whoa let's be free like we're you know some sort of free festival um but like suddenly then stops and it's it's really hard to find it again especially when you think that when you cuddle or kiss your partner that is the first thing that they're thinking about women have had the most rubbish day you talked about the non-sexual physical touch and how important it is to like be actually connected to our partners rather than just going oh my god i don't want to hug him because i think he's going to want to sit further down the sofa you know that's the thing it's true yeah it's true if every affectionate touch needs to turn into sex, then women are extremely turned off, especially in long-term relationships.

38:33And even research found that. So if every touch has to turn into sex, then I don't even want to be touched. So that's like training your brain in a very negative loop when in fact you want to be very generous with affectionate touch with nothing in return. So, right. So you say that there's mainly women here. There's a few men, so I'm so sorry. Shout out to my trainer AJ at the back. AJ's the ladies. You're such awesome as for me. So we're all talking about that and we're all probably in agreement that lots of us feel that way sometimes. Do we feel that way? Can we just have a raise of hands? What's the question, George?

39:13Are we straight in the front row? What's the question? So are we all in agreement? I mean, maybe I'm not. That we do often not go in for affection because it has to lead somewhere. We hear it like all the time. I would like to see. So how would you bring that up? What would you do to break that? Get out of that cycle. Yeah. So what I talk about all the time is having macro sexual communication. Right. We talked about that. We didn't talk about it. Okay. So when people think sexual communication, they think of like dirty talk and like these things you say in bed. Not at all. Actually, the most important thing, the most important thing you can do for your sex life is to talk.

39:55And, you know, it sounds counter. intuitive. Like, isn't it like doing it? No, actually the best thing to do for your sex life is to talk. And this type of talk is called macro sexual communication. What happens in macro sexual communication? It's talking about your sex life together. And this, this has to be done. This has to be done ladies, because research found it is the number one predictor of long-term sexual satisfaction. There will be no long-term satisfaction. And I can guarantee this because there's so much research on this topic, there's no long-term sexual satisfaction unless you talk about it.

40:29So the very first thing you need to do is actually to bring it up. It will be hard. It's always hard. Talking about sex and money is really hard. And that's what research shows. Sex and money, right? If you struggle with money and you have to talk about it as a family, it's really hard. Same as sex. So it's hard. Let's get that out of the way. But it must be done. one of those things. Yeah, because saying nothing just causes more of a barricade, right? And then it's just the silence speaks volumes, right? And the very first thing you want to ask is simply, how do you feel about our sex life this last month?

41:07That will be the same reaction as I get when the spreadsheet comes out. I'm like, oh, sorry. The budget. Exactly. Exactly. Wow, we have to ask that question. Sex and money. Hard to talk about but must talk about. Yeah, it's the best way to gain clarity and true closeness with your partner. Because if you're afraid to talk about sex, that is actually a symptom of a lack of closeness and emotional intimacy and emotional safety in a relationship. Sex isn't just about sex. Sex is never about sex. Sex is never about the act of sex. Sex is about everything else. it's about emotional safety it's about mutual exploration it's about effort it's about who initiates it's about feeling desired and sexy and wanted and beautiful it's about so many more things than the act itself so that's why when I say you have to talk about sex I mean it it's serious yeah and I'm not serious that often you know me no that was that was a change of terms We sat up.

42:15That was Professor Tarr. That's really, I think that's really struck a nerve. Definitely. I think it's like you said, it's one of the hardest things to bring up because also you don't want to be faced with that moment where you have to look at each other and go, well, actually, it's a bit shit. Yeah, what's happened? What's happened? What's happened between us? What's happened? And how do we get it back? And can we get it back? Yeah, 1 ,000%. Yeah. Yeah, there's actually a lot of research that shows there is, you know, the five-year sort of difficulty and then a 10-year difficulty and then a 13-year difficulty where there's a lot of divorces and breakups.

42:51So anyone has passed the five-year mark? Yeah. I'm seriously counting. I'm sure you haven't passed the five-year mark. James, if we need 13 years, where's James? Is that right? 13 years. We're heading to it. So give us some advice. do this or else. So I would say the first important thing is macro sexual communication. If that has never happened in a systematic structured way, it has to happen. And this needs to be over like coffee or on a walk or somewhere chill. You never want to talk about sex in bed because there is an association between being in bed and talking about it. And if it's stressful, then you're never going to want to have sex.

43:31You won't do it. Yeah, so somewhere over coffee or walks. And another thing is what I would love for everyone to try is actually erotic solutions. Oh, what are they? Just asking the questions for you guys. M &M's, erotic solutions. Basically takeaways. M &M's, erotic solutions. Exactly. Do both. Erotic solutions while doing M &M's. What's erotic solutions? Erotic solutions are non-penetrative sexual activities. so the thing about sex and the definition of sex that people can't get over is I just don't want to have sex what they mean is they don't want to have penetrative sex yeah right they're cool with like naked cuddling or other things like maybe a little nipple play maybe a little mutual masturbation maybe a little you know like something something yeah but maybe you know but maybe not full penetration where it takes like 15 minutes right like 15 minutes you'll be lucky be real be real but but like that's the thing is like let's expand the definition of sex let's expand that sex doesn't have to be penetrative and this both partners need to be on this like we can have an amazing sex life when we expand the definition of sexual activities not everything has to be penetrative you can do naked cuddling you can do uh feet worshiping you can do feet worshiping yeah yeah where someone gives you a foot massage and like yeah someone gives you a foot massage while both are naked yeah yeah yeah because nudity is related to intimacy and closeness so while both foot massage and kisses on the feet like that like you know showing affection devotion if your partner is like i've seen your partner what he looks like he must have lovely feet I mean, him doing it for me.

45:30For yoni massage. Yoni massage is a pussy massage. Yeah, but you need to have the men be trained. There are videos, like there's a courses, there are courses online that you can get your men for Valentine's Day. Oh my God, I can see a man's face there. he's going i know what you're getting make sure you get an affiliate code affiliate code but yeah you're in massage class like have them say it's it's like a one-hour course and they learn how to give like a massage and like massage your you know your labia your whole vulva you know it's it's amazing it feels amazing okay there's also i love that yeah i love that and i think i think what dr tara is saying is it's like you have to maybe we all have to like push the boundaries slightly on what's happening day to day because it's so routine led our life with our kids where we have to be that things can be exciting again we'll be right back after this short break if your skincare isn't working you're probably skipping one essential step gentle daily exfoliation bare-faced toning pads smooth skin unclog pores and help the rest of your routine work better, all without irritation.

46:44One of these sells every three minutes. They have over 653 ,000 five-star reviews, and the results speak for themselves. Get 15 % off plus free shipping at barefaced.com with code SKIN15. The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports. Right now, the NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real-time scores, breaking news, and highlights all in one place.

47:26Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment. Arreo Original Podcast. Hello, I'm Pete Wicks and my podcast, Man Made, is back for Series 2. I'm sitting that with more of my mates and famous faces to talk modern masculinity, who we are, who we want to be and how we get there. Am I enough as any of these things? Am I any good at these things? Anger takes the place, I think, for men. Listen to Pete Wick's Man Made Now. New episodes every Wednesday on the Rail App, Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts.

48:05Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? Now, we're running into our Q &A, so please. Who's got some questions? Some questions. Yeah, not for me. Not for me. Aimed over here. It would be wonderful. Yes. Yes, come on. I've done a recent marriage counselling. One of the things that we spoke about in that session was I've got a three and six-year-old that's not all that much time for him and I, and she suggested schedule sex. Oh, yeah. I cannot bring my, I'm like, I'm trying to teach you, but I put it in a diary now. And so we both did, and all that, I just cannot.

48:50And should I just cross that bridge? Thank you for sharing that. That's an amazing question. Yeah. A lot of people are experiencing that, so thank you for asking the question. Yeah, yeah. I have two thoughts on it. First, if you are mentally able to, I am 100 % behind scheduling sex. And I'm not saying scheduling penetrative sex. I'm going to build on what I just said, scheduling intimacy time. So don't force yourself into, oh my God, like now we have to go into bed and I have to get naked and we're going to have penetrative sex and I'm not feeling it. And I I just had a baby on my boob. Like, no, like, let's not do that.

49:34Like, scheduling intimacy time. And that can be anything. It can be anything. It could be both of you get naked and you cuddle and watch Friends. Yeah. You're like, yeah. Friends time. But see, the brain doesn't know if it's penetrative or not. The brain can still release oxytocin, dopamine, and serotonin. So why you love sex so much when you started dating is only because your brain, your physiology, your brain tells you that you love this because your brain is releasing oxytocin, bonding and love hormone, serotonin, happy, good mood, and also lower cortisol when you have good sex or orgasmic sex.

50:20It lowers your cortisol. So all of these things help you feel better and help you bond with your partner. but here's the thing the brain doesn't know if it's penetrative or non-penetrative so you could exactly so you could be naked cuddling and it would give the same effect in your brain anyways you would feel loved you would feel desired for each other um and it would be quality time so i would say yes schedule sex but schedule intimacy time let's not call it like sex because then there's so much pressure um the other thought that i have on that is some people are not even there they're like i don't even want to put it on my calendar like i'm not even there yet like where do i start and what i learned in sexology is one of the most important things is to break your daily patterns and how to break your daily patterns is you have to give a shock to your system um and no I'm not talking about electro sex but if you're into that that's fine you want to break the pattern and break the nervous system so what you want to do is actually do a few of these things, whatever works best for you.

51:43So if it's scent that you like, pick a scent that makes you feel very sexy. Keep it in the bathroom. When you get home in your work clothes, a lot of your listeners are working women and you're like in your masculine, you feel like, yeah, assertive, like kill my day. It's awesome. But that's not the way you can feel like sexual and get intimate, right? So what you want to do is actually go to the bathroom, get naked, put on that scent that makes you feel feminine and sexy and softer and rewire your brain through that scent the more you do it the more your brain will get the cue it's time girl do it after the kids have gone to bed though yeah you can do that yeah whenever that's appropriate whenever that's appropriate that's so great if scent isn't your thing you can also do in the mouth so one of my good friends who is a sexologist does um sour candy to break the pattern she has a sour candy yeah and then she gets turned on it's her thing it's her thing and for me it's getting in a robe like a soft silk robe like get out of this structured clothing take off the bra like get out of the structure clothing get on a soft robe then i feel a little bit more like maybe yeah right any more questions can I ask a question about Hayley I've got two children that are interested in a career in sports yes so how did you get into being a sports journalist what was your career path I think now it's definitely a lot easier because people are more they're more open to giving people without a lot of experience the experience I think it depends what kind of role or job they want to do for example I actually work behind the scenes I worked as a runner as a floor manager I worked behind the scenes for about nine years until I started presenting, doing lots of different jobs.

53:32And that allowed me to work in the area that I wanted to work in, possibly broadcasting and figure it out whilst I was there. I didn't set out to be a presenter. I actually wanted, I thought, oh, well, like I went, I studied fashion, PR, marketing, journalism. And I ended up writing about football. But I was like, I'm going to work for like Grazia and Vogue. It did not happen because everyone else did that as females. So I got kind of got into sport and I sort of fell into it a little bit. But I was like, OK, I want to work in sport, but I didn't really know what I actually wanted to do. I just love sport and all sports.

54:06So Sky came about. My dad was actually working there at the time. So helped. I didn't work experience. I worked on a production team like many of the people that I work with at Sky. If we just talk about some of my female presenters, they all started working in production somewhere. one of our guys who works as a news editor now actually was working in the canteen but was in and around the building enough and then he kind of started shadowing and doing a little bit more there are lots of internships I think the BBC are great with that ITV Sky have like a graduate scheme but I think just getting into somewhere where you think okay well I feel like Sky fits me because I've watched Sky that's where I would fit the BBC would never have suited me particularly at that age and where I was at so I just want to get in see how I feel about what I might want to do because it actually might change your mind one of our females who was pushed to being into possibly a presenter absolutely beautiful knew a lot about sports she would have just been a perfect you know mold for sky presenter she's actually now one of the senior directors she now works for TNT but she worked as one of our senior directors she just prefer being in the gallery having sat in a gallery and watched it all over she was like I think I might have a bit more longevity in this and she wasn't the most confident even though she was beautiful and knowledgeable she's like I just don't think that works for me and found her self-directing don't know if that's helped you very much but I think getting in anywhere you will find your way you don't have to go for the job go for the organization that you feel great great question I love how we just like seamlessly segued as well from electro sex into how do you get into being a presenter?

55:45That's why I love this podcast. Am I allowed to ask a really quick one about, so you said, oh, ask your other half about, oh, you know, how do you feel about a sex life in this last month? What about this last, like, year? What about, like, what if you're like, I am paramenopausal, and at times, I hate him, I can't stand him. Fair point. Yeah, you don't even have to be a paramenopausal to hate your man at times. I love him and I know he's the one for me, but I'm just like, ugh. Disgusting. No, that's my hormones taking over. It's not because I don't love him or lust after him. I'm knackered because I'm up at quarter to four every morning.

56:25And a child who sleeps in our bed every night. What's the question? So when it's your hormones and your emotions, how do you get over that? particularly for like perimenopausal women who have other symptoms as well which would like restrict them from having sex well first is to treat the hormone right first is to check in with the hormones and then find solutions for that particular issue because talking won't solve the hormone situation so hrt yeah um i think you're talking about that yeah and then self-pleasure self-pleasure is really important because again uh you can sex isn't just about your partner and you right sex is like mainly about you about yourself so about how you feel about yourself yeah it's about how you feel about yourself so i think self regular self-pleasure is really important and if like i said and if like think using your hands feel like it takes forever resort to tools like tools are great for you the tools are there for a reason you really do advocate for this yeah oh i've just seen lives change completely yeah i'm with you i mean talk to anna williamson my co-host like we talk about this all the time like she's like you changed my life i said thank you thank you yeah it's it's really important to take the time for yourself because you know what it's not just about orgasming what it's about is it's about sexual self-esteem yeah when you don't pleasure yourself for a long time and you take that to the back burner you know what my career is more important than me my child is always more important than me which I completely understand but there will be times where you need to also prioritize yourself in order to give to other people from cup half full right yeah it's like if the cup's empty you can't really pour so I think taking care of yourself will increase your sexual self-esteem and therefore will help you talk about sex with your partner it's like step by step sorry no Oh, for anyone feeling like that.

58:23Little steps. Yes. Little steps for sure. Thank you so much. Listen, we have run out of time. We have. The biggest, well, firstly, please can we say the biggest thank you to Dr. Tala and Hayley for being here tonight.

58:39Wow. I really hope you enjoyed that as much as we did because we loved it. I just wanted to say, firstly, thank you to you guys. But thank you to this special woman sitting next to me because had I not walked into that coffee shop, nine years ago and said hello to her or she said hello to me this wouldn't have happened i love doing made by mommas with you i love you guys are coming i love doing made by mommas with you she said i love you i said i love doing made by mommas with you but normally i have a little bit of time to prepare like this sort of stuff with zoe and i can chat if you'd hear it but um no i do i have schools i love it i'm just not very good at sherry it's okay i know i know you do thank you guys so much for coming this evening um have a drink stay or get home whatever you've got to do but seriously you guys been supporting the podcast means everything to us so we love you thank you

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1:00:20Less steps, better skin. The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports. Right now, the NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real-time scores, breaking news, and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment. A Rayo Original Podcast. Hello, I'm Pete Wicks, and my podcast, Man Made, is back for Series 2.

1:00:59I'm sitting down with more of my mates and famous faces to talk modern masculinity, who we are, who we want to be, and how we get there. Am I enough as any of these things? Am I any good at these things? Anger takes the place, I think, for men. Listen to Pete Wick's Man Made now. New episodes every Wednesday on the Rail app, Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.