Friday Q&A: Zoe and Her Mum Carol on Raising Zoe

0:01Made by Mummers starts in just a moment. After this episode, you should check out Life with Nat as they mark Carers Week with a special episode. Natalie Cassidy recently went back to school to get her Level 3 B-Tech in health and social care. Now on her podcast, she's catching up with classmate Tilly, who's been a young carer since childhood, supporting her mum who lives with advanced MS. It's a brilliant episode. Get Life with Nat lined up to play next and listen for yourself.

0:54David Beckham, Terry Henry, and Ronaldinho, Christian Pulisic, Lamine Yamal, and Alphonso Davies. Right now, get one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World Cup meal only at McDonald's. At participating McDonald's, only for a limited time, while supplies last. All rights reserved. Copyright 2026. McDonald's at the FIFA World Cup 2026.

1:19Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review.

1:51You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made By Mummies. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hello and welcome to Friday's episode of the podcast. An absolute treat on the podcast today because for the first time ever, even though she's featured heavily on the podcast, but I can get away with it because I know that she hasn't listened to many episodes. It's my mum, Carol. Well, welcome to my lovely studio. Well, thank you very much. it's a great can I just say it's a really great honor to be here I watched you grow and and everything else and it's fantastic well you do feature heavily on the pod mum so I'm quite pleased that you're here to sit down because what to prove that I actually exist no to answer to answer all the questions that everyone sent in what we thought we'd do today is a little Q &A so the listeners have sent in their questions for you and I to answer we've only got 30 minutes so I'm going to crack straight on with them and I'm going to kick off with this one it's quite a big one but Dee says have you got any parenting regrets gosh that is a big one we've only got 30 minutes yes I know I won't take that long I'll gavel through parenting regrets not many actually I was very fortunate and dads and I were very fortunate actually to bring you up in a completely different era when children were still allowed to be children for much longer than they are and we did some amazing things as a family and that created a fabulous bond.

3:20And I think from that, we've actually grown into adult people, well, you've grown into adult people. And I think I don't actually have many regrets. No, honestly, no. OK, there you go. What quality do you love most about Zoe? Will I be able to get out of the studio? Will my head be able to fit out? What do I love about Zoe? How positive you are? How focused you are. How tenacious you are. Brutally honest on occasion. Great fun. A joy to have around. And somebody I love very much. Mum, that's lovely. Thank you. I mean, I can be a pain in the arse sometimes, as we all can. Yes, that's true too. Because we know we're not all perfect.

4:05But do you know what? I think we've had such an interesting relationship, I think, over the years. Because we were so close growing up, weren't we? And then the teenage years. weren't that great for either of us. You know, you were going through menopause. I was going off the rails at sort of 14, 15. That was quite a tricky period. And I think a lot of people go through that period where the mother starts becoming perimenopausal and the teenager starts to become quite rebellious. And that happened to us on quite a sort of... Yes, I mean, and you went into a state of rebelliousness. Yeah. You did some pretty...

4:43Let's talk about me, yeah. Go on. about about what else well maybe about about you and obviously like you went through some stuff and that was difficult for us as teenagers to hold yes and that and that was that was difficult too I mean obviously I was a rebellious teenager but you I what I think what I'm trying to get at is that we've navigated some quite deep oceans yes I'd say that was very fair comment and we have And I suppose the thing that has really now is coming out because we have a very close relationship and I understand you, I think. And I think at the time it seems momentous. And in comparison to other people, you did a minor rebellion.

5:30And I think we reacted in quite an old fashioned way because it was that generation. I had great support from dads, from your father, who was amazing and solid and rock solid. And I think you're right. I mean, we were both doing our own thing to a certain extent. How does being a mum compare to being a grandparent? Oh, completely different. Completely different. I mean, the grandchildren, kitten Luna, are just joy unbounded. I don't have to really, I mean, I do sometimes say, please don't do that. But apart from that, it's just you are allowed to be somebody magical in their life. And I think they respond to that because they are able to be themselves in a different way.

6:21They don't have to prove anything. Grandparents really are there to be somebody that they can just enjoy themselves as well. And I think that's hugely important. And I think the input of grandparents cannot be underestimated. I wish very much that we lived a bit closer. But on the other hand, we have you undiluted for three weeks every year. And that is fantastic. So it's very, very different because you don't get the grot. What you do is get the joy. Yeah, that is definitely something that you, I guess parents, sorry, grandparents who are here and they're very active in their grandkids lives and they're looking after them two, three times a week and they have them for weekends and stuff probably do get the grot.

7:08And I think you probably get the best bit because you dip it and dip out and we come to you. Do you take your role as grandparents seriously? Oh, that's a really interesting question. I don't quite know how to answer that. I mean, what, to give them wise words? No, as in for you. How does it make you feel? Do you take that role seriously for you? Well, yes. I mean, I don't quite know how I'm supposed to feel. I mean, what I feel is great love, and I just don't have to define what a grandparent should feel. They are just part of me, part of you, and I love them. Yeah. It's simple. If you were bringing up kids now, is there anything that you would do differently?

7:53Well, I certainly would definitely curtail screen time. I mean, there's so many studies now. And if I knew now about screen time and all the rest of it, I wouldn't even let an iPod in the house. iPod? What's that? An iPad in the house. Only because it's just not doing them any favours and they're not developing in the same way. and then they have problems in that direction. So I don't think that's really answered your question in as much that what would I do differently now? Well, I can't really, again, I can't really answer that because it's different. But as in, maybe I can help, as in there were obviously decisions that you made as a parent, some brilliant, some not so brilliant as we all do.

8:44Would you do, if you had kids now in 2026, If I was, if you were 43 and I was 10, 15, whatever, would you do anything differently now from the way that you brought me up? Would you do anything differently now? No, I don't think so. Because this is interesting. Can we talk about boundaries? Because I like to talk about boundaries on the podcast because I don't think that there was many boundaries around, which we spoke about, right? Which is good and bad because we were brought up in a very free household. We could basically do what we wanted when we wanted. We could smoke, we could drink, we could do X, Y and Z.

9:19There wasn't much kind of like, we weren't on holiday when we were 14 years old. We went away for two weeks without parents. You did, but you did have an older sister. Who was 16. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just, I'm wanting to, if you think back on that and you think, would you do that now? Well, not now because the world is so different. I certainly wouldn't let 14 year olds to go off alone on holiday. No, absolutely not. but it was quite in well it was more innocent than it is now let's put it that way and I think you know the world has is so different in the 40 year span that you've been around I mean it's been a hundred and what a 180 degree term but I mean we are into unknown uncharted territory now and I think that people are so themselves are so different as well you You know, I think children, in many ways, because of the safety issues and the this and the that and the other, actually don't grow in independence in the same way that you did.

10:23And you were hugely independent. I mean, from the age of three, when you refused to wear clothes that you didn't want to wear. And it's quite true. No change. Yes. so you very much were your own person and you were encouraged to be your own person I like that and I think that's very important as a parent I think you must realize that your children are not you and again I think you've spoken about this and just because you are a broadcaster maybe Luna certainly won't be you know allow them to find their own path allow them to find their own independence. These days it has to be done within the confines of the safety issue and that's the single biggest difference.

11:09There's a lot of emphasis put on oh you know can't do that, can't do the other, breaking that rule, doing that, keep safe, don't chance it. Children have to be allowed to fall out of trees, they have to be allowed to express their individuality and it it's but again it's all different uh you were you did run wild and also there was always kenya in the background and that influenced you hugely and in kenya the kids really still run wild to a very large extent and i love that because they're able to talk to their individuals and they talk to people um what was your parenting motto wow okay it's the things in life you don't do you regret but is that related to parenting yes what do you mean well I mean you're an experiment aren't you um of course you're every child you have is an experiment but like as in what did you have something that you kind of thought about that you sort of lived by when you were bringing me and Catherine up no oh well well okay I'll come back to that one And obviously you give them values.

12:24That's quite different from a motto. You give the values that count in life. And I think it's far more important than a motto that your children actually are really, truly good people. They're not unkind. They're not, they don't steal. They don't bad mouth people. Whatever level you're at with a child. and that they come out as being caring and sharing and willing to help others. And I think that's hugely important. I love the young. I love the young. And I want to open doors for them and to encourage them to step through. And that's another very important part. I love that. do you think it's easier or harder for parents in 2026 to when Zoe was a teenager yeah I think it's much harder today much harder because so much has been lost the spontaneity the simple things I keep using the word joy because to me bringing up children when I did was a not always but on occasions absolute joy and it was very simple and it was very true Well, no, the majority.

13:45Oh, go on, pick me up on that one. She's brutal, isn't she? Not all the time, but on occasions. I mean, that is quite, yeah, OK. So sometimes there was joy and sometimes there wasn't joy, which is how we all feel, I think. It's really important to say it. Yeah, I hear you. I'm just taking the mickey. I know you are. And why do you think that was the case? Why do you think, do you think we've lost the joy? I think it's become too regulated. I think the children have become too conscious of who they are, what they're doing. Is this the right thing? It's a really fine balance between giving children a good set of values and then asking them to just throw them all away on occasion when they can just jump in and build a mud hut.

14:31you know it's sorry I'm getting confused here because in many ways that's a two two tier question on the emotional level I think and you could answer this um you say that we didn't give you enough boundaries well maybe not but then on the other hand you were quite willful yeah absolutely yeah that's how that's how we were raised and I think that's exactly yeah um But the whole point of this is I still think it's much harder to raise children today because of the expectations. Little girls want to look perfect, all this sort of thing. There's plenty of time to look perfect. That's really interesting because actually there's so much research done that the way that the way that we are now being so much more conscious of giving our children, you know especially our girls um the the voice they don't have to be the perfect little girl that actually they can be bold and and brash and loud and unapologetic and they can be ceos and they can be leaders whereas actually when we were raised not by you and dad because actually i think katherine and i i mean we look like we've been raised by wolves we had the worst haircuts in the most ridiculous outfits but that's that was the 80s that was the that was the 80s no no it was great i love i loved it we were we were raised bold but a lot of a lot of young girls in that era were seen but not heard and we're fight we've we as our generation have been fighting against that for a long time and that's why feminism is where it is at the moment and that's why we're trying to fight for that equality because we didn't have it growing up and you didn't have it growing up at all if you think about it um so i think you've done an amazing job in that space because you taught us to fight against the system and that actually, you know, if you want to be heard, you have to shout the loudest.

16:25Yeah, very much so. But, okay, I take that and thank you. I just think that, so how are you viewing girls today? What are they doing that is different to what you were doing? Well, we're being CEOs. So let's start with that. Let's just start, I mean, we've got a long way to go, But I think we have to put we had to we've had to push so hard against the gender stereotypes of what a girl should be and what a boy should be. And we're still having to do that now. But there's so much more for me, just the awareness around it, the conversations, you know, making sure that our girls know that they can do exactly what our boys can do.

17:06And yeah, there's a long way to go. But I do think we've had to do we've had to undo quite a lot of damage, actually. wow okay yes i think it's a perception every yes it is and i i take that one on board totally um i mean it's interesting to note that i still know a lot about car mechanics mechanical bits because my father taught me yeah and so we were brought up differently as well and so that goes down through the generations and they didn't see although they obviously they did more than dads and I did um the difference between boys and girls and you it's all education you've got to educate your girls you've got to actually say yes you can be CEOs yes you can do this you can do that now there may be a sacrifice to that but at the same time if that's what you want then you must take that chance and go for it.

18:04I get that completely. I still think it's harder to raise children and in particular girls today. Agreed. Agreed. Interesting that you think it's girls as well. I love it. Yeah, that's interesting as well. Because, yeah, yeah, I'm with you totally. I would love to just spend a week in the life of the 80s as a parent and see what it was like. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it would be interesting. We'll be right back after this short break.

19:00Christian Pulisic, Lamin Yamal, and Alphonso Davies. Right now, get one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World Cup meal only at McDonald's. At participating McDonald's, only for a limited time, while supplies last, all rights reserved, copyright 2026, McDonald's at the FIFA World Cup 2026.

19:22Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? Oh, this is interesting. So Eleanor says, Zoe, how did you manage boundaries about parenting choices with your mum. Do you know what? I don't think that we have ever had to have the conversation about boundaries because with the kids, with my kids, because you don't live in this country. So it's like if you were a grandparent that was here and looking after the kids twice or three times a week, then probably that conversation would have to be had. But we haven't had to go through that because we don't get to see each other that much.

19:52So the times that we do spend together, we just kind of want to have a lovely time as a family. I can't answer that. Yeah, but in terms of boundaries, boundaries are really important to me. And actually, when I had Luna, I had a feeling of, because, and this isn't a criticism at all, by the way, because you were the most fantastic mother. But I think sometimes, or retrospectively, I felt that the boundaries thing is really important to me. And setting out and making... Would you have been happier with boundaries? I just I think I needed to know. I know the care was always there because the love was always there.

20:31And it was, as I said, it was an amazing childhood. But I was very confused about what I could do, what I couldn't do, what I could get away with. So I just did it all. And there wasn't much stop button. And so I felt maybe like I experienced things too young. and that's also not your fault that's not me saying that you should have done better that was just the way that you did your perception and it's very valid but it also made me the person that I am today but what it did do was make me feel this with Luna that I you know I it was a bit helicopter parenting at the beginning because I wanted to make sure that I was on top of everything and in control of everything and you know that she was never alone for a second and and it's different now you know we're 10 years down the line with my 12 years with Ila and my parenting journey so it does look different but yeah boundaries are really important to me okay that is interesting I mean don't forget you went off to school in Switzerland at the age of 12 yeah I know which made you hugely independent yeah and I think that set the scene for the rest of your early teenage years all the way up actually um yeah I acknowledge that nice we should have been tougher with you and said no at that stage and I think definitely and you might have been very relieved because what you were landed with were decisions that were out of your control this is what I'm trying to get to yeah yeah and positions that you shouldn't have been in and I think that's correct yeah thank you for hearing that yeah oh yeah someone says she must be so proud of you oh am i proud of you immensely immensely you've been such oh you you've fulfilled all your dreams that's what i really respect you for and i remember at the age of three you said you you had made the decision of what you wanted to do in life at the age of three when you actually opened the car door when we were going off on safari and saying this is our car and at that moment you made the decision that you were going to be a broadcaster and I also remember when Valley my sister said to you so what is plan b oh I didn't like that comment what I remember not liking that comment when she said no no but it's true no no But she said, what is plan B?

23:00And you turned around and said, there is no plan B. You have been focused, tenacious. You've got there by hard graft. You weren't discovered, well, you were discovered overnight, actually, playing it straight. But it's been a journey with the ups and the downs, and you've stuck the course, and I'm immensely proud of you. Thank you. That's really kind. It's not an easy journey, but it's been a brilliant one. Of all the achievements that Zoe has made, what are you most proud of Zoe for in terms of career? I think because you and Georgia have created it, it's when you won, I think it was a silver award in 2019, something like that, for Best Parenting Podcast.

23:53and I that blew me away because from nothing you created a vehicle which exposed so many things and you've helped so many people and it's you know when you have when you land a lovely contract it's great and you sit there and you're great at your job but it's not yours this is yours and that's what I'm enormously proud of she's nice isn't she my mum good egg Sophie says firstly How bloody epic is this? How do you feel about how open Zoe is about yours and her relationship on the podcast? Well, I have to confess, I haven't listened to all of them. I do. Am I supposed to? Carol, be honest. It's fine.

24:45You've got a very busy life. You're not retired and just sitting around doing nothing. No, I'm not. I'm definitely not. I presume she says some nice things and some derogatory things. I really don't know. They're all nice, Mum, are they? No. Do you know what? It's not about nice and not nice, I think. I would never sit here and slate you at the same time. I think it's important to... You will have your own story and your own narrative, which is also respected and held, and sometimes I probably get that wrong. and I will have a narrative that you might disagree with and but I'm I think it's important because I think a lot of people I think when you become a mother you suddenly start looking at your own relationship with your own mum and you take all of the beautiful parts and you think about the stuff that didn't maybe quite work out and then you want to do better or keep you know or do the same with your own children and that's not a blame thing that's more of a you dissect it a lot I do anyway well you might I don't I just don't you don't think about things like that though do you know I mean my relationship with my mother was amazing I mean she was a wonderful woman and I enjoyed being in her company and we had a great time I I come from a very happy home and as such That is what I want with both of you to feel.

26:14And I think I've achieved that is that you've always felt very loved. We might have got it wrong and there's no parenting handbook. But I do think by and large, too much navel gazing can be a bad thing because the instinct goes. You usually know what's right. And if it feels off, it's wrong. And definitely I've got it wrong over the years. And so have I. I mean, we all do, don't we? Of course we do. It's all part of being human. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't think I answered the question, but anyway. In short, Sophie, she doesn't know because she doesn't listen to all the podcasts, which is totally fine.

26:53And we won't tell her. She also says it's extremely brave of you, Zoe, and I can't wait to listen.

27:02Do you prefer being a parent or grandparent? Oh, gosh. Well, they're both wonderful. I mean, they're so different. You can't really say one or the other. I mean, I'm not a traditional grandmother. I'm really not. You know, I've been, I admit that. In many ways, I'm really sad that I don't have more. I'm very sad I don't have more to do with them. That is a given. but at the same time at the times I see them it's wonderful and it is different um because also I'm I'm not in the same country so therefore I'm not hands-on and I think if you're hands-on you have a closer relationship obviously but I do I prefer being a parent or a grandparent wow I've no idea really they're so different I can't really it's like apples and pears Katie says what was she like as a teenager how did you cope well done Katie for asking the million dollar question what was she like she was in parts phenomenal and in parts pretty horrendous no not horrendous but you were quite tricky for a while and I think you know come on this is last year time I'm laughing So therefore, I could say in many parts, she sailed through her teenage years because she was who she was.

28:38But in some ways, she fell by the wayside. And I mean, we have been hauled up by various headmasters over the years. There were only two, actually. One, no one. One headmaster who thought your behavior was inappropriate. and then I then we had that was when I was wearing the denim shorts do you remember this is outrageous do you remember this it was a school that I was at in Kent yeah and we got let in our last year of that prep school we get we got to go into the local town and go and buy some sweets or whatever and I was so so pleased with my cut off denim shorts and my oversized denim jacket which said neighbors in the new world on the back and I had purple dot martens on and they were quite short shorts but I was only 12 at the time I mean my body was developing but not you know whatever I I don't even need to caveat it.

29:21And I remember walking across the grounds to go into Hawkehurst and I remember being called back in, like screamed, come in. And I got sat in this headmaster's office and he said, what you are wearing is disgusting. How could you possibly think that? They're an appropriate length shorts. I'll be calling your parents in. You know, what do you think you're doing to, you know, young men in the area, all this kind of stuff. And I remember just feeling so much shame and so, so uncomfortable and so sad about what I'd gone through. And it was like that moment I suddenly became a young woman hearing like that was completely wrong of him.

30:00Of course it was. Completely wrong. Yeah. You know, our bodies should be celebrated. I wasn't being it. Why did he have to sexualize me at 12? Well, that's the big question. That that actually is a really deep question, because what was he doing sexualizing you at that age? It was outrageous. And I think, you know, schools again are so different now. But I mean, in those days, you were supposed to conform. And yet your school was pretty liberal when you think about it. I mean, you had a lot of freedom. You built camps, you stayed out, you did whatever. So I don't know. Yeah, it has stuck in my mind, though.

30:39We're just going to finish with this one, Mum. What's your best beauty secret? someone puts you someone's put you look amazing she looks amazing thank you um best beauty secret don't smoke absolutely do not smoke i luckily had my tonsils out when i was 17 i'd just gone up to five a day and from that moment on i've never people don't smoke anymore oh well if you're not smoking you have nothing to give up then what would be your beauty secret cleanse your face I have cleansed, moisturised my face since I was 16. And I can honestly say I don't think I've, or I might have missed one or two nights, but 99 % of my time, every single evening, I take off my makeup and put on my moisturiser or whatever.

31:27Now here, it's quite a dry atmosphere, amazingly. Everybody thinks it's very, you know, humid or moist laden, but it's not. It's actually in comparison. It's not. And as you get older, you must change your beauty regime. Your skin today at my age is definitely not the same as Zoe's. And it's not the same as Luna's. And you must change your routine to suit your skin. And be honest. Look at it and say, well, this isn't working. And try and get enough sleep. That's a big one. Yeah. It's all natural stuff. So don't smoke. Get some sleep and cleanse and tone every night. I love it. I just want to say the biggest thank you for coming on it's been a treat to chat to you obviously I had to grill you a little bit but then you grilled me so it's fine and to all of you guys for sending in your questions Queen Carol my mum on the podcast well done, thanks mum thank you

32:35Hey, Pablo Torre here. As a sports journalist, I've covered global sports for many years now. And there is one thing that I can promise you. Nothing compares to the World Cup. And this time, it is even better thanks to McDonald's. You have the chance to take home one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World Cup meal. The cups feature some of the biggest legends in football, like David Beckham, Thierry Henry, and Ronaldinho, Christian Pulisic, Lamin Yamal, and Alfonso Davies. Right now, get one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World Cup meal only at McDonald's. At participating McDonald's, only for a limited time, while supplies last.

33:11All rights reserved. Copyright 2026. McDonald's at the FIFA World Cup 2026.