Helen Skelton

0:02Georgia Dayton: Zoe and Georgia will be here in just a moment. Now, if you're in the thick of the school holidays and secretly counting down the days until September, why not escape from the kids for a little bit longer by getting another brilliant podcast lined up to play after this? On Secret Mum Club, Safina and Emma are chatting wholesome family holidays and asking the very important question, is travelling with kids actually worth the stress? Oh, and one of Safina's kids has officially entered his free willy era. So there's that. Search for Secret Mum Club and get the latest episode lined up to play next.

0:42Georgia Dayton: At Boar's Head, we've been going back to school for over 115 years. And this year, every school lunch is reason to celebrate with the flavours your kids love and the exceptional quality you expect. helping you make school lunch fresh, easy, and delicious. Ring the bell. The deli is open. Boar's Head. Committed to craft since 1905. Thumbtack presents Uncertainty Strikes. I was surrounded. The aisle and the options were closing in. There were paint rollers, satin and matte finish, angle brushes, and natural bristles. There were too many choices. What if I never got my living room painted? What if I couldn't figure out what type of paint to use?

1:30What if I just used Thumbtack?

1:33Georgia Dayton: I can hire a top-rated pro that knows everything about interior paint, easily compare prices, and read reviews. Thumbtack knows homes. Download the app today. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week, we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts, and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands.

2:13Georgia Dayton: And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hello and welcome to Tuesday's episode of the podcast. It's just me today. I'm actually recording this just in the middle of packing before we head off to Disney and it is absolute chaos in my house. I don't know about any of you listening but I think the school holidays are you sort of it's fine if you've got nothing else to do you know but if you're still trying to finish up work and pack or do anything like that it just feels like really full on I've also got friends downstairs who live in Saudi and they've come to see us and I'm up here doing this so I think it's just all a juggle and that is absolutely where today's guest was as well um she was in the middle of it her youngest little girl was very much involved in the podcast episode um but it's real like that's what happened you know sometimes though and I record in a fancy studio and sometimes we're recording like in our bedroom and I think we got such an a real honest conversation from our guest because she's, you know, she's at home.

3:33Georgia Dayton: Like you can even maybe hear her boys in the background. And it's, I guess sometimes it's just really nice to hear that it's not just you that's in the chaos and everyone is just trying to do their best and muddle through. We have had this guest on the podcast before and lots of us would have grown up watching her on our screens. She was a Blue Peter presenter. She is still a presenter and she does lots of like extreme adventures and stuff like that But beyond being a TV presenter, she's also a mum of three So on the podcast today, it is Helen Skelton Helen, how are you? Hello, I'm good I'm an underchild as many people will be in the summer holidays You know how it is, you know how it is I do, and the last time you came on the podcast Zoe asked you if you were going to have any more children and you were already pregnant with baby number three and here she is she's joining us on the podcast today how has it been yeah good I mean three is definitely different I feel like when you've got two you can kind of keep a lid on it you can see which ones are simmering away what's going to kick off but one's got three as you can see they're very much in control I think the boys I can kind of distract so they've got off to do um they've earned their FIFA time haven't they they've been outside all morning but this little one does not want to be distracted

5:01Georgia Dayton: so obviously we when you came on the podcast before we chatted a lot about having boys how has the dynamic changed introducing a girl into the family i very may be thought having a girl would all be disney princesses and dressing up do you like a princess dress yeah i wish she I think because my boys are quite outdoorsy and sporty and they're those kind of boys, she just slots into that. And also I think by number three, they're at the age where they're doing football and cricket and hockey. So that's what she does every weekend. She's on the sidelines every weekend. So I don't know. I think I kind of had this naive idea that I'd be doing totally different things.

5:46But I think number three just has to fit in. So we do do singing and dancing. but she liked football as much as the boys do and they like what they like, don't they? But she definitely spends a lot of time on the sidelines.

5:58Georgia Dayton: Do you know what is really interesting? Because you say that and I think I expected my daughter to be like that because she's got an older brother who loves all sport. She spends loads of time watching him but it's put her the other way and now she cannot stand it. I've actually really wanted her to be into sport. I thought it would be great. like I didn't grow up being into sport I thought it'd be really good to have a daughter that is and to give her like those opportunities but honestly now I think because Axel is so into it she like rebels and is like the opposite and only wants to do like gymnastics and like dancing and all of that kind of stuff so I think you just never like you never know what's going to happen like it can send them either way but also I think when before you have kids you think oh I'd love it if they did this and that and the other but when they come along you don't care what they do as long as they're happy like mine seem to pick up a new sport every five minutes and I end up you're that person who's like yeah okay cool at the minute I seem to spend half my life talking about suspension levels on mountain bikes because mine are into mountain bikes I never thought I'd know so much about a hardtail I was all sus and I was like I didn't even know that meant two months ago now I'm like standing in bike shops with 18 year olds who were like you know in all the gear and I'm like yeah I think that's uh that's definitely going to be good for rails and the hardtail on that and the suspension and the forks I'm like what am I talking about whatever they're into you're into aren't you yeah it is it's true and you kind of have to be it's one of those things isn't it it's like if you don't you know if you don't get involved then you're gonna be pushed out so especially with boys I think I remember years ago talking to a a woman whose son was really into like comic-con art you know that sort of the art that's really like dark and spider-man and all that and this woman went i just thought if i don't get involved in it i'm not going to have a shared passion so she was like i go to all the conventions now well done elsie for bringing me a jigsaw as opposed to a phone everybody will think i am that parent that only does crafting now well done babe sorry what you were saying that um yeah about how important it is to i guess try and get a shared interest with your kids yeah well i I think whatever they're into, as I said, this woman I was talking to, she was like an accountant, very straight laced, was into what she thought she was into.

8:16And then she was like, I never thought that I would end up doing so many Spider-Man, Comic-Con type stuff, because that's just what you end up doing if your kid's into it. So, yeah, I mean, who knows? They're into football and mountain biking at the minute, but that could change.

8:29Georgia Dayton: Yeah, exactly. So we just touched on, you know, going from two to three. Has it been how you expected it to be? it's definitely a complete whirlwind I think you're playing catch up a lot more with three like you are um you're like this for instance I mean I feel so rude that she's constantly asking me questions but I think you just have to accept that when there's three there's always going to be one about to kick off like two you can keep a lid on one you're like okay for me anyway for me like I'm not saying that's the case with everyone some of my friends kids are like little ducks that just trot on behind but I would argue that mine are all big personalities and they like to make themselves heard for sure and what's the age gap between your youngest boy and um elsie uh he has just turned eight so she's three and he's he's just turned eight so he to be fair the boys are very very good with her like they will play and they'll do nice things with her they're quite physical with her like she can you know they chuck her about and all the rest of it but she um can handle herself as you can see whereas like my eldest is 10 so he's definitely got his own social life which I mean she spends so much time with half their football team so she's definitely she can handle herself she will I'm not worried about going to school put it that way yeah do you think having a younger sister has made the boys grow up quicker oh like yeah I think it's sometimes made my middle one a bit more clingy because he wants a bit of that but it's made my eldest I'm so sorry it's made my eldest you are showing off it's made my eldest he's very he's quite protective which is quite cute he's quite chivalrous like he is very yeah he can really look after her and they um you like a cuddle with your brother don't you what do you call them my boys she knows she'll walk around going where are my boys where's my boys like it's very it's a cute dynamic oh it's funny do you think you're more protective of her than you were the boys or do you think it's different no I think it's totally different she's like little miss independent like she will fire me back already you know I want to brush her hair and she hates it I bought so many hair clips and hair slides that she hates it she's like stop it which is only three words I think with the boys even now I can be like no no you're wearing this outfit today whereas with her what is the point I mean she went to cricket the other day dressed as a tiger oh do you know what it is so nice to hear that I have to say before having a girl I was so excited because I'm quite girly like I like you know girly things and I was really excited to play dress up and all of that kind of stuff and it's like I was presented with the opposite like literally she usually looks like she's been dressed from the lost property box she refuses to brush her hair she like it is absolute chaos and for for ages it used to really wind me up like I used to be like oh just let me have this like just let me have this moment where you wear something nice and she literally said to me once she went mum being pretty is so boring oh wow yeah but she's like that like i she'll go um she she'll go out as i say on sunday she went out dressed as a tiger and then a few weeks ago she had a german emmanuel neuer goalkeeper's top on with a matching pink tutu so she had a tutu and a goalkeeper's top on and then she came out of school one day and exactly she had been dressed on lost property because she got so mucky that she um came out of school and she had on like long shorts a long t-shirt and a hat she looked like Avril Lavigne and was I was I was just singing to her she was a skater boy she said see you later boy because exactly that I buy all these like cute little outfits I'm just like what if they're happy they're happy aren't they and I think by number three you're definitely picky battles yeah I mean I'm doing it at number two like I think I've fought against it for so long and now I think I've just got to accept it but you do you see all these people out and about and like they've got immaculate girls and boys to be fair like dressed in these buckle outfits and mine just look like well to be fair my son is actually all right now he's come out the other side he's quite neat but she just looks mad completely mental well she we all sort of laugh with not Elsie's hair like her hair's so mad it's like a little lion and she kind of comes back with it like everywhere and she has this kind of curly old bonkers mane someone said to me the other day it's with Elsie it's her world and we're in it and I was like that's the exact right phrase like she's it's your world and we're just in it out the main oh yeah we'll be right back after this short break

13:29Georgia Dayton: At Boar's Head, we've been going back to school for over 115 years. And this year, every school lunch is reason to celebrate with the flavors your kids love and the exceptional quality you expect. Helping you make school lunch fresh, easy, and delicious. Ring the bell. The deli is open. Orzette. Committed to craft since 1905.

14:23Georgia Dayton: the tap all on the app. Thumbtack knows homes. Download the app today. It takes the hits, runs the miles, rebuilds while you sleep. It's felt every fall, every dance floor, every belly laugh. And in return, it asks for nothing. It just keeps going. I'm Ellie Taylor, and this is Back Your Body, the podcast from Holland and Barrett that's all about the most loyal relationship you'll ever have. The one you have with your body. From scars to self care, the bits you love and the bits you've learned to love. We're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them or finally learned to listen to them.

15:03Georgia Dayton: It's time to back your body the way it's always back to you. Back your body. Subscribe now, your body will thank you.

15:14Georgia Dayton: Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now where were we? do you find that you you know like having a girl has brought out a different side of you as a parent um I don't know I think I was always quite like girl power anyway and I'm quite into that with the boys like yeah it's funny my my boys were playing they play a lot of cricket and last year they played in a cricket match where um girls in their sport girls can play a year down so like my seven-year-old then was playing against a girl who was f13 and she was so phenomenally talented and so tall and my son came off and goes you tell me not to be a sexist but you haven't taken a ball from her like because she was so tall and he was just like she's immense and I think and I sort of loved it you know knowing mixed football teams and stuff so I wouldn't say she brought out a different side to me it's definitely meant I've had to sort of embrace the chaos even more than I already did and right now being testament to that you are doing so well literally because I feel like having a girl and Anna and a boy has made it sort of even more important to me to talk about you know what you know why we should you know embrace women's sport and all of that kind of stuff how do you talk to the boys about sexism and stuff that does come up well they I would say my eldest best friend in his football team is a girl and i just don't think it's a thing to them you know it's not like the lionesses are so wonderful and impressive that it's not like oh look aren't they aren't they doing well and they're girls like they're just doing well like nothing else needs to be said and so i don't really think that that that is a thing and also like you know probably the way we were brought up like my mom is a real doer like it's not something that we ever go oh you must you must acknowledge that she's done this no you don't need to technology just get on with it like you just see it and you do it and it is what it is and like and and probably for me like I do all of the stuff with the boys like you know I wasn't very well recently and it was the first time that my kids had ever seen me not be well and it was a really weird one for them because I think to them they see me as like the strongest and the and the kind of even my son just said to me have we lost all strength now mummy are you not fit now and I was like it's not an interesting way to look at it like he doesn't I wouldn't say it's something that I actively talk about maybe I should but it's something that I actively show them like yeah I did high walks earlier this year and my partner that was meant to do it with actually got injured and dropped out the night before but he said oh we can defer our place I was like no no no because I'm showing my boys that you don't quit like girls don't quit so um yeah so I did it anyway And I think for me, it's more about showing them than kind of saying, hey, you've got to look at look and say aren't they great because they're girls.

18:09They're just great.

18:11Georgia Dayton: They're just great. And you're and you're like showing them and leading by example, I guess. How was it being poorly? Because I've got I've got a friend who had a hysterectomy recently and she has been out of bounds for out of bounds, you know, like couldn't really do much late weeks. and she said the hardest part of that was not like not being strong for her son and being able to do but yeah completely i would completely engage you that the hardest part is when the kids want you to kick a ball around or play with them and you can't do it like you don't because that's george's pretty face she's talking to us about what happens when you're poorly and And that is 100 % that was the scariest thing is that if you, sometimes if you're not well, I mean, you know yourself when you're juggling and parenting and whatever, you just get on with it, don't you?

19:02You don't really have time to be ill and no one's bothered. And you just got to suck it up, take a break, I'm all crack on. But actually, I was really out of action. And it was the most, it was the first time as an adult, I really thought, oh my word, I really have to take care of myself because being ill is really, really difficult. and scary because you it's like your wings have been clipped and I had a whole new you know I've got a friend who's got MS and I had I actually phoned and apologized because I was like I thought I got it and I didn't get it and and I'm I'm fine it was one of those things that a couple of weeks and I was fine I think if you are actually ill like that is really scary now and as I say I have a whole new a whole new empathy for people dealing with actual proper stuff yeah like long-term

19:49Georgia Dayton: of sickness it's actually to be fair it's something that I hadn't thought of before either until she sort of said it because it is you know the physical stuff I think as mums we are very good at like getting on with but when you have to stop it's the emotional part of it right that oh you can't yeah you can't get past and it is kind of like it's not the same thing but it is the same thing And that's sort of why I was so keen on doing this campaign, because it was the Sonicare, Philips Sonicare campaign was one that supported the Hygiene Bank. And it taps into that, like in the same way that everybody knows what a food bank is, the Hygiene Bank is providing hygiene products for people who are in a situation where they can't help themselves at that current time.

20:35silly little things like that might seem silly that are actually massive like a deodorant or toothpaste or some shampoo you know I spoke to um some families in a distribution center where the kids weren't going to school and the mums weren't going to work because they didn't have shampoo and they didn't have toothpaste and and all of those things impact your confidence and have a knock-on effect and I think they're those cliche statements aren't they health is wealth and you take your health for granted but it's so so so true it is true how did you talk to the boys

21:06Georgia Dayton: about that that your involvement with the hygiene banks oh yeah I mean they I think food banks are so widespread now and that people see them and they're not a big deal and I'd like you that there's not a big stigma around using them and I think this is hopefully what will catch on with hygiene banks it is exactly the same idea I think perhaps the more tricky thing is and rightly so for dignity people don't want to say oh I'm not going to school because of whatever or I'm not going to my job interview because of whatever but I think the whole thing around again it seems wrong to say it's a silly thing because it's not a silly thing but if you don't have toothpaste and you don't brush your teeth you know yourself that affects your confidence and if you've not been in a position where you can buy good tooth pressures and good toothpaste for months and months you know you maybe won't go for that job interview you maybe won't go for that date you maybe won't go meet those friends and that has a huge big impact and that they're just examples of why philipsonic have supported this campaign they were kind of doing what they were doing in a way to um help fund the hygiene bank so yeah it was it was kind of two things really that caught me out the the research so all the stats you know about which I'm sure you've seen about you know almost half of people think that their oral hygiene would um be impacted would impact their confidence would impact their ability to have a relationship and then the other thing was the families that I've spoke to that were you know telling anecdotal stories about oh yeah the girls didn't go to school because they haven't washed their hair for the weeks which means they're then probably you know worried about getting picked on and and I think it's when you hear those examples as a parent you go oh freaking heck that's we shouldn't be letting that happen should we on our little time exactly and sorry did you did you mention to the boys about it about sort of your involvement with that because I think sometimes it's so easy to get caught up in your own world and like you know for my kids they don't worry about not having shampoo or toothpaste or anything like that and actually thinking about it if I said to them now there will be people maybe at their school or you know who are who they see at football or whatever who might be in that situation I don't think they they would have any understanding of that unless I spoke to them about it is it something you talk to the boys about I think again it's a showing thing so I think in a lot of the boot stores is where you'll find the hygiene banks and I think the physical putting of stuff in there is a way of demonstrating because I think it gets them thinking without outgoing have you thought there might be a kid at school that smells because it's almost that with kids of our kids age that triggers a different response doesn't it so I think and that's where I think those hygiene banks are really clever because they do not affect people's dignity yeah so there is so you can go into a boot store and you can donate what like toothpaste all that kind of stuff yeah but that's amazing that is really really good it's exactly it's exactly like a food bank but as i say i think philip sonica kind of honed in on this use this research as a way of saying okay this is actually affecting people let's use this as a mechanism um i mean you know and i've met some of the volunteers that distribute the stuff you know sometimes when you meet people and you think you guys were put on this planet to remind other people what to do with your lives like just you know just physically taking stuff out to people who need it and it's an immediate soul you know there's no big there's not resources and funds and energies getting lost in stuff it's literally this person needs this they've got it yeah yeah yeah I do I do think as well when you're you know people are struggling financially donating something that's tangible that you know is going that physical thing is going to that person that feels I don't know slightly different I guess than donating money 100 % I think the tangible thing that's like all that's like all any charity effect isn't it like I think that's why people do research you know you as I say you can talk anecdotally about oh if you haven't brushed your teeth you're kind of a bit like oh morning everyone whereas like they did this research 79 % nearly 8 out of 10 people think their oral hygiene affects the way that people judge them affects the way that people think of them and I think you can relate to that can't you go oh yeah god i know i i wanted to i went to dentist before doing this did you probably on brand probably on brand so your eldest is 10 now so is that you think you know is it you is it the time to be moving on to secondary school is that coming next year oh yeah traumatic times i um we went and did the look around secondary skills we live really rural so it's kind of there's three that he could go to they're all sort of equidistant um but yeah it's funny isn't it I have the whole time I was walking around I was just thinking shouldn't you be in a car seat like all I could see was like him in his little car seat I'm just not ready for that bit yet how yeah how are you feeling about it because my son's going into year five in September and we've had the letter about you know the open days and all of that kind of stuff and I feel really weird like I don't think I expected to no I did enjoy it I also think when they start when he started school I distinctly remember being really upset that he was going to spend time with adults in the day that weren't me because I wasn't working at the time and I was like oh you know I was very I was in a really nice sort of rhythm like we were just hanging out in the day and he wasn't really doing very much nursery like the odd morning but not a lot and so the idea that he was going to be constantly with adults in a classroom really upset me and I think going into secondary school it's less about the adults and I'm more like I don't know if I'm going to know the kids that you're going to hang out with yeah how are you with stuff like that you know like with the boys if you're not that keen on one of their mates how do you handle it I'm more like sort of kill it with kindness I'm more like you can come in my brother always says why do you have so many kids in your garden all the time and I'm like I'd rather they were here and I knew who they were with oh because it's awful though if they especially as they get older you have less control over who they hang out with and I think I mean football teams are a big thing as well because you definitely get the vibe and mine have been in various teams and I'm really like like I love all my middle son's hockey friends and I'm like even if you don't want to play hockey you're playing hockey my friend I love these yeah because you want them all right do you know what that is so like that's so true my son was moving football teams um this year and a lot of the decision was down to the kids like we like those kids and like you want them to be friends but that's what sports should be like it should just be having a good time around peers and people that you like and yeah I mean we as I say I'm you know lucky that where we live a lot of their friends knock on the door and I'm very much like come in the garden then I know who you are and I know who you're with but yeah it is um it is a when you live in the kind of community I do you know most people like you know someone's related to someone or I put I mean I my friends downstairs joke that I live in Emmerdale Farm because I literally like the chances are that my kids are friends with the kids of people that I went to school with so you kind of have a connection do they have more freedom would you say but you know what it's not something I would have ever realized but I think other people have like my friends we lived in Leeds for a while um and my friends and they've come up from when the boys were little we lived in France and they had loads of freedom because we lived in the middle of nowhere but then when we moved to Leeds they were so little they were with me all the time but I think when I moved back here my friends thank you when I moved back to the lakes oh my friends like oh my gosh they can just go out on their bikes and they you know they can play on the green till late at night and they can do all of that stuff and I think I definitely you have that yeah I definitely took that I I took that for granted as a kid but I don't take it for granted as a parent you know that's when I I've always walked them to school I've been able close enough to walk them to school but when we lived in Leeds if I think about my walk to school in Leeds versus is my walk to school now it like gives me anxiety because it's it was so busy but it isn't that busy it's just busy compared to where we are so yeah they definitely have a lot of freedom especially in the summer because it's so light here like it hardly gets dark it's not even dark at 10 o 'clock so the kids can be playing out I have a sort of running joke with my neighbor that if ever he's got um friends here he's like can you just hide this weekend like I don't need footballs and golf balls coming over the wall at 11 o 'clock at night.

29:52Georgia Dayton: Do you know what is sounds so nice? We don't live anywhere particularly busy. We live in like the countryside of Essex. There's not really much you know going on but it's that letting them go bit that I find difficult and like to know when to do it. Like I don't know. We'll be right back after this short break.

30:15Georgia Dayton: At Boar's Head, we've been going back to school for over 115 years. And this year, every school lunch is reason to celebrate. With the flavors your kids love and the exceptional quality you expect. Helping you make school lunch fresh, easy, and delicious. Ring the bell. The deli is open. Borshead. Committed to craft since 1905.

31:11Georgia Dayton: Thumbtack. We know homes. Hire the right pro today.

31:41Georgia Dayton: We're talking to people about the bodies they live in, how they've pushed them, neglected them, rebuilt them, or finally learned to listen to them. It's time to back your body the way it's always back to you. Back your body. Subscribe now. Your body will thank you.

32:00Georgia Dayton: Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? You mentioned that the boys earned their FIFA time. Where do you sit with that? oh I hate it because I don't understand it I hate it but you know my kids are always asking me about TikTok and I'm like I can't tell you anything about TikTok because I don't do it but that would be cool um but it isn't going anywhere so as much as I'd love to be you know I've got a friend who are anti-technology no technology and I wish I was that strong but I also think they're not going anywhere and all their friends have can you take it to granny yeah thank you they're um i i just think there's no pot in like mine have a phone that is obviously monitored by me and linked to me and um to be completely honest they never take it out of the house because they're not and testament to the fact that they're not old enough to have a phone is they don't charge it so it's not on most of the time because they and i'm not going to charge it for them and i'm just like they they're not old enough to take the responsibility of charging something therefore they're not really old enough to have a phone it's just you know probably one of those you're old enough i'm old enough thank you in the same vein that you know she shouldn't have a dummy anymore but that's life isn't it like the boys didn't have a dummy when they were three these were long gone you think sometimes as a parent you've got to give yourself a bit of slack you know it's really refreshing to hear you talk about the phones like that because i'm so conflicted about it my son's eight nearly nine quite a few of his mates have phones I'm in the camp of like they don't need a smartphone blah blah but then I also don't want it to become the forbidden fruit yeah what 100 % yeah because I think like what you're saying there is they've got one and actually they don't really charge it and it kind of stays at home that would be my ideal like not to say you can't have it but them to make up their own mind that actually don't really need it that much and so then they don't really use it I think it's a really difficult decision like I think if you give the phone to a child you hear so many horror stories don't you like that's it you've lost them they're you know they're always on their phone you never you never speak to them again but actually you're saying they don't really know how to look after it so they've got it and they just leave it which oh yeah and i i wish mine didn't have a phone and i and i don't enjoy that i was getting this lecture off this guy one day he was saying to me oh gosh phones are so bad for kids they'll they behave so badly afterwards the dopamine the this the that the dangers and he was completely right and i said to him how many kids have you got and he went oh none and i went all right well i agree with everything you said but come back to me when you've got three kids and because you've got as I say they're not going anywhere and a lot of my friends who've got kids the one thing that I have and I hope this lasts is he's in whatsapp groups with his mates like football and whatsapp groups can be mean and all of that and there was Victor's meanness and I always look at it and check it and I asked him about it and he went oh I'm glad I'm not in those whatsapp groups he's in them he just doesn't read them that shows how little he touches him like yeah you know you're just you are my kid yeah you're not having a phone um she's going but I it is it's that thing you know like when we were kids our parents were probably thinking oh they're watching too much television yeah that's true I always talk about the meanness like that I think everyone thinks oh my god bullying in whatsapp groups bullying in whatsapp groups but the thing is that is what happens that happened to us it just wasn't in that groups it was in you know it was in the playground and I and I know that you know that it used to be that you'd come home and it would be your safe place and they wouldn't be able to get to you anymore but I guess ultimately it's all learning isn't it and it's all learning about like relationships how to deal with people how to talk to people and it yeah okay you're making me feel better here no but it's all I remember when my my kid for ages wanted fortnight and i was like no no no no no no and a very well meaning you didn't want fortnight a very well-meaning dad came around and said oh i heard you don't know how to sell fortnight i'll do it for you and i was like no that's not what i meant but he sold fortnight and he played on it for two weeks and he's never touched it since so i think your thing about the forbidden fruit is something but i don't want to say that naively like i don't i don't like them i don't like them at all i just don't think they're going anywhere yeah do you know yeah I think it's just one of those things isn't it it's so difficult and like with all the stuff that comes with them being older the decisions are harder because it's not like right and wrong it's like oh such mighty water yeah 100 % and I think you know sometimes I you know I used to when the kids were little I used to look at people in restaurants with an ipad or a phone i think oh gosh how terrible but now equally i'm like as long as my kids have done other stuff so like they're playing on fifa now because they've been outside all morning and outside till stupid o 'clock last night a little bit of me is like can you just sit down for 10 minutes yeah and actually you know you've got a lot fifa they can draw you any they're not massively into school but they can draw you any flag from any country because they know the country's from fifa from fifa that's so true my son is exactly the same i he knows about countries I've never heard of and that's the same with YouTube I think most parents would be like oh my gosh that how has that become a thing especially when you work in this industry but we're going up to you know my son was spouting out a load of stuff to me about puffins before and I said how do you know that and he went YouTube so I'm not saying it's good and I'm not saying I like it far from it I wish it didn't exist but the reality is it did exist it does exist so I think we just have to find a way to navigate it yeah totally listen Helen I'm gonna let you go because it is the middle of the school holidays and it is wild at the moment I'm exactly the same my kids are downstairs doing god knows what probably hitting golf balls around in the garden so I'm gonna run to them as well have you said it's not in the house which is where in my house it could be I've just seen a message flag up from my husband like golf balls are you joking so no you've got to buy where they are buy those little plastic ones with the holes in and then they can do them in the house that's what we have yeah that yeah that is a good idea yeah but just before you go i think we would have asked you this before but what is the one piece of advice you'd give to another parent i think you get out of you can always pacify a child with a nice lolly um I think you think I think you get out of life what you put in and I think that's the same with kids but like you you know they respond to presence and energy and input and all that stuff and you know the world is what it is you can't most of us have to work very few people you know get the privilege of being full-time stay-at-home mums wouldn't that be nice but I think those moments that you are at home and there's nothing else to do for me it's you get out what you put in so like you sit and play with them and and they for me become all the memories and and the moments for sure oh I love that well thank you and um yeah I hope you survive the rest of the school holidays I'm so sorry for the chaos can you say sorry Lucas so yes we were joined by little ones and actually not mine although James did message me halfway through that podcast recording saying like golf balls are you joking um because I think my kids must have gone into the garage and actually gone and got the real golf clubs and balls out and probably been hitting them around in the garden so I look forward to uh what I'm gonna go down to um and find um but yes thank you for listening um We are away now, Zoe and I, and we will still be putting out episodes every Tuesday and Friday, but sometimes it'll be the two of us, sometimes it'll maybe just be one of us.

40:23Georgia Dayton: We are just going to make it work. So yeah, thank you for listening. And as always, we would love you to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast. And any feedback on this episode or guests you'd like to hear from or anything like that, drop us a DM on Instagram. We're on Outmade by Mummers and we'll be back on Friday.

40:54Georgia Dayton: We'll be right back.

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