Indy Clinton On Always Being The Outsider

0:02Zoe and Georgia will be here in just a moment with Made by Mummers. Once you've finished this episode, you should catch up on You Don't Know You're Born, the parenting podcast from Danny Miller, Brooke Vincent and Wingman as they navigate raising their kids in a world of screens and smart speakers, a far cry from their own upbringing. Each week, they draw on their Coronation Street and Emmerdale roots to share a bit of parenting wisdom in acting up. It's very silly and very funny. Just search You Don't Know You're Born wherever you get your podcasts and queue up the latest episode to play next.

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2:01Visit growtherapy.com slash ACAST today to get started. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week, we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts, and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you.

2:42Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Georgia? Georgia! Oh no, Georgia can't join us on the podcast today because she's been a very, very, very bad podcaster and doesn't have any headphones. We always like to keep it real on Made by Mamas. So we've all just logged in to join. George is wearing her child's headphones, which have broken.

3:18And she was like, these are my backup headphones and they don't work. So essentially, I'm just doing today's intro for today's podcast. So hello, you lovely bunch. I hope you guys are doing great. We've got so much to fill you in on, but I'm going to save it for when me and Georgia are together because the content is gold. Wait till I tell you about the stripper and the penis pump. There's a little tease for you. We're going to get into today's conversation straight away because it's one that I cannot wait for you all to hear. It's not every day that we get an Australian in the studio. She flew all the way from Sydney.

3:54She's got a massive, massive following online and she's very funny. She's very real. She has got an absolutely sort of, I think it's safe to say, a bit of a madhouse at home. But that's why we love her, because haven't we all? And she brings a very kind of humorous look to parenting. So it was a total joy to sit down with this absolute beauty on the inside and outside. I must say she is absolutely stunning, but also her heart is so good. And we talked about her high risk pregnancy. see. We talked about the fact that she is an ambassador for Booth Hair, which focuses on postpartum hair loss because she experienced it herself.

4:33And there was definitely some moments where we didn't really understand each other, i.e. there's a very funny moment where we're trying to explain what the Cotswolds is and various other moments. So I think you're going to enjoy this. Sit back, take a moment, grab a cup of tea, or if it's that time, pour yourself a large glass of wine. Today we're talking to Indie Clinton. I'm so excited about today's chat. Today's guest has just walked in. Not only is she pretty much the most stylish woman we've ever had on the podcast, I'm giving her that. She's an Australian content creator, a businesswoman, co-founder of Booth Hair Care.

5:05It is Indie Clinton. Hello. Thank you for having me. Really? Yeah. You look amazing. See, everybody's been telling me that this is me without a tan. Stop it. Because it's Aussie summer finished a few months ago, so this is me kind of brewing, getting ready to hibernate, you know, hairy legs, a bit tasty. You don't want to see what's under there. This is where we are. You're going into where we are now. We are, yeah. Like our husbands, we take our clothes on, our husbands go, fuck! Yes. Yes, scary. I know. I feel like where you guys have just come out of it, which I felt that sunshine for a good few days there.

5:38Yeah. Unbelievable. We had some sun. Because you're in the UK for the first time. First time ever. Without your kids. I know. We want to know. I genuinely feel like I'm a teenager. I was like, oh, my God, should I go out? Should I go out in Soho? What should I do? But I haven't. Oh, Wendy. I've just been going to bed early. Well, not really, but I've been staying in my hotel room. I've actually really been enjoying, I was saying to the girls, just this time. I think this is the first time in the last five years I haven't rushed because I feel like once you have kids, you just start rushing. Like I genuinely rush from A to B for no other reason than just to rush, just to get their kicker.

6:11so I walk around the streets going to H &M, Zara back and forth every day just to look around at the same pieces just because I can because you can because you guys have Zara yeah there's way better here Zara in Australia looks like somebody who's just come through the front door and just started ripping down racks I mean to be fair Zara 3pm in most places looks like that if you get in early it doesn't but yeah by the afternoon Oh, okay. So I thought your Zara had different code of conduct. It was real clean. It made me, it was good for the, you know, to sift through. But I'm loving it. So just for people listening who don't know, you know, your family setup, just give us a little insight into what home life looks like.

6:58So I am 28. I have my first baby at, I just turned 23. So I was quite young, which I love. I've always wanted to be a young mom. I want to follow up to my mom's footsteps. Not with having five kids, though. I draw the line at three for now. Three for now. Three for now. I thought maybe in my 30s I might get a bit horny again. I thought you were going to say. What's the word? Broody. Broody. But horny, I was going to say broody. Is that the same thing? Kind of. I think we just expect to have a baby without feeling the horniness. But I love that you've gone for horny. Yeah, no, I want to, you know, I've got to get out of that housemate stage, which I think it might be in maybe five years when my youngest is six or seven.

7:43But, yeah, I've got three young kids. They were all – I don't know if I can claim this still, but I like to claim I am a mother of three under three. They're just growing up now. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, because I say that all the time. People go, well, you've got three under five. I'm like, you know, prior to that I had three under three. Three under three. Well, three years and two months. Wow. You know the people that really have three under three, they get a bit angry. I can't really claim it if I'm two months over the threshold. You can on this podcast. Yeah, you can. I'm claiming every bit of it.

8:09I'm still claiming it. How was that, by the way? In the moment, I feel like I was just on survival mode. It was actually a lot easier than it is now because the youngest was just a little potato. She just lay there and she just slept. So it was amazing. But now they all move and they all want to jump off the rocks into the pool and they all want to be in the water. And they're all such water babies. So it's high stress. They all also have a personality, which one thing nobody told me about motherhood is somebody's going to wake up in a bad mood every single day. It's going to be someone. This is so fucked.

8:43Why can they not just all be in a good mood on the same day? And then if it's not them, it's you and your period. Or if it's ovulating. Like I get in a bad mood, I think like before my period, during my period, after my – like I'm – and then it's your husband. I just think like in our house, there's one that just wakes up in a bad mood. so I'm hoping on this trip when they come over we just kind of the wind in their hair just kind of blows the cobwebs out yeah yeah because you guys are going off skiing yeah so we're going no no no the crazy thing is we um I like to snowboard I've snow that's my thing I like to do I grew up surfing so snowboarding I really love however my husband never I think he skied twice and that was the first time last year and he took out a whole ski school of kids oh shit yeah in the Australian snow.

9:32So the crazy thing is is that I'm flying my family over here to go to the French Alps and nobody knows how to ski. We're going to Seurchevillier. I don't know if that's how you say it. Seurchevillier. Are you French? Well, you know. Oh, are you actually? Zoe's like pro skier, so she knows. Are you French? Because you said that really well. Second language is French. Wait, that's really hot. All the French now listening says they're like, you didn't say it right now. That was really great. Thank you. Oh my God. I actually could tell you're French now you say it. Thank you. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, that's where I'm going.

10:02Oh, it's going to be amazing. Yeah, I'm going to Club Med as well. Oh, I did a Club Med not last year, the year before. It's amazing. It's like I call it skiing for dummies, but that's rude, and it's not that, but everything's made easy. No, yeah, that's what I want. Like we're pretty much flying over for seven days of help. Yeah. We don't have that at like, you know. You can drop the kids at like this kids' club ski school at 8 o 'clock in the morning. Amazing. And you don't actually have to see them until 6.30 at night. They get them dressed? They get them in their ski outfits. They get them into like everything.

10:36They go off to ski school. You can see them at lunch, but quite often they don't want to. Amazing. I don't want to. Yeah. I'm so excited. I'm actually really excited for that because I do. We haven't done a club med before, but in Australia we did a ski school, like my eldest, and then my middle child did it, and they loved it. And they're exhausted at the end of the day. They just want to go to bed. Such a good age to get them into it. We talk about this the whole time because if you start them really young, the first couple of years you think, what the hell have I done? Why have I wasted this money?

11:07And they're literally tearing a new arsehole out of each other. But now, four years on, it's like dreamy. Are you like professional skier? I mean, I do love it. Oh, really? Not professional because I'm on the pond. No, but you, no, no. I do love it. I look like. Oh, my God, this is so good. So I was like skiing. and you're in those real tight sexy outfits. I look like, you know, like basically like the equivalent of a granny coming along on her mobility scooter. Oh, yes. That's me. Oh, that's nice though because you're enjoying the views. Yeah, I'm just, that's exactly what it is. I just don't want to miss anything.

11:40She sent me a video of her skiing and I went, who is this? Oh my God. Well, you guys must hate, I feel like skis and snowboarders don't like each other. Like I like skis. Yeah, I like those. No, I feel like you're lying. I don't have an opinion. They don't love, I see though, because like the skis are so chic, très chic, you know, Very French looking and they've got their tight ski wear on. The snowboarders come down. Baggy. Yeah, baggy, like they've just rolled out of bed. But I love that look. Are you going to be snowboarding or skiing this trip? Yeah, I'll snowboard. You'll be snowboarding.

12:06I got all my kids into skiing because I said I feel like it's really important to learn skiing first. Yes. And then my son really wants to do snowboarding. He dabbled in both in Australia. It's going to be a great trip. And my husband, I'm excited to see my husband have a go in the French Alps. If he doesn't kill someone on his first one. I think I'll have to leave him up the top. I've already looked up all the little huts I can have, like a Peritivo. See you there. See you there. Yes, because in Australia, he couldn't come up to the huts with me because the only option was to ski down and he couldn't.

12:35So I had to leave him behind. I love you. You're literally like, I would wait with you. Yeah. Right? I'm like, yeah. So there's a gondola. I've looked up for him in case. We'll be right back after this short break.

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15:05Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? Talk us through being a young mum because 23 years old, you know, I think historically it didn't look like it was, you know, an early age to start a family. You know, all of our parents did it younger, but now women are pushing it a little bit later. What was it for you that made you think, right, I'm going to do this at 23? um I think I've always been maternal which I think is very much something that's born into you because I look at my daughters now and they are obsessed with baby borns wiping butts changing nappies dolls like they're like that you can it's all my don't they take their prams with them to the shops like it's and that was me like I was one of those kids that was obsessed with dolls probably until I was 13 which I don't know was very normal but I loved like changing baby borns, buying new outfits for them.

15:53I was always very maternal. I remember being like, damn, I wish I had a kid at 15. Thank God I didn't. But I remember thinking I really wanted a kid from such a young age. So then when I met the one, my husband and he really wanted kids, we have an age gap. We have 15 years, which seems so crazy to people. But I think I grew up quite fast being, I've been on social media since I was 15. So I kind of experienced, yeah, Yeah, I kind of fell into that since it's been my only job. So I grew up very quickly in this industry going to events. So I felt like I had done that part of my life. Obviously not visit the UK, I hadn't done that.

16:29Yeah. So I was really ready to settle down and my husband obviously hadn't had kids yet, so he was ready to settle down. But being a young mum, it was hard. And I think looking back now, I just can't wait until all my friends, well, my friends, not friends anymore, have kids. You've left them well behind. He'd be like, sucker, I told you, here's the apology, I knew it was coming. He left me high and dry on this mountain. What were the things you found hard? Because I think there's obviously like lots of pros, like you're meant to have more energy and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. But like, was it the friendships?

17:04I think the friendships was one thing. I had this huge baby shower for my son and, you know, we had it on one of my girlfriend's tennis courts. I'm still really good friends with her. But, you know, I had all these friends. I had 12, you kind of leave school and you've got like this huge group of friends and then things start kind of transitioning and you can't go to as many things and your priority is this baby and they can't quite wrap your head around, you know, why you can't come. It's a Saturday night. I've given you six week notice. Why can't you come to my housewarming in my apartment? I'm like, my baby won't take a bottle.

17:38I've tried. Honestly, I'm breastfeeding, but just won't take a bottle. I can't leave. And they're like, just bring the baby. I'm like babes you guys are all going to be getting on it as I'm not driving an hour and a half like I can't leave the baby like and I know I mean now I've had three kids I definitely am like you'll survive you're fine now yeah um but I think it's just the lack of understanding and even like that mum girl even being away from them now it's the longest time like a week away from them and there's that like unless you're a mum you don't really understand you know you wish you were there for them and then you're missing on important things and school and things like that but I think as a young mom it's that you lose the um the connection with young people because they just don't get it and it's and then you're the selfish one and you know you're the one really interesting point actually it's really weird because I think they don't they don't know your your friends in their 20s it's they're like well I've made an effort I've tried to reach out it's like yeah well I can't because my baby won't take a bottle or I'm I've been been during the last three nights because you know the baby's teething and it's like that lack of trying understanding and then I guess finding friends who who are having babies the age gap is probably so big that you can't then maybe find that much common ground I don't know like I I'm I wasn't that I was 26 when I had my first and I found that I wasn't in either camp yeah you know like that's why she's hanging out with me I'm 43 and she's a lot younger because there was no one else on the road yeah slim pickers but no but did you find that hard like did you find it difficult to find other people having babies yeah I was in Australia I don't know if it's the same here we get put in a mother's group like after you give birth you get didn't want to go no I know neither did I but I had no choice because I'm like I don't have anybody else I know having babies and unless I want to be friends with like you know the random Karen that I knew you were gonna say Karen I was about to say karen and i thought shout out to all karen i love karen don't know why she has such a bad rap with her name but um no so i went and joined this mother's group and i made a really you know i made some really good friends who in their 30s you know just a few years older but i'm like this is you're all kind of on the same journey so it doesn't really matter your age you're both sleep deprived and it was really nice to have with your first baby because i remember just going to the beach would catch up every single day like we were it's all we had to do and you don't really realize how amazing that is until you have more kids and you're like I can't believe all I had was one baby and I thought that was hard like of course it's hard it's your first baby and you're learning but like yeah it just gets so much harder doesn't it I would take the baby down to the beach and just be like guys I'm sorry I didn't sleep last night I just lay there like under a French panty tree and just like and they would get it but it's just being around other mums who are going through the same it's your tribe isn't it yeah if we had lived in Australia we wouldn't have had to go to the fucking David Lloyd in Gloucester.

20:33We would have been on the beach. We used to have the Aussie breakfast though, didn't we? Oh yeah. We did. We used to hang out. So Georgia and I met in a coffee shop in Cheltenham where we'd been dragged kicking and screaming by our husbands. It's like the Cotswolds, which is outside of London. Don't dress it up. It is. It is the Cotswolds. But that's what someone would know. I don't know. Is that the Harry Potter thing? What Harry Potter thing? I thought there was something called Cotswolds in Harry Potter. Maybe they were. I actually haven't watched Harry Potter. I don't know. We're like that.

21:02I don't know if the Cotswolds were featured in Harry Potter. What is a Cotswold? It's like a really lovely area in the UK, so it was really, really lovely. But it's like the countryside. But we didn't have any friends at all. So where's Posh Spice lives? Maybe I've heard it somewhere. No, not Posh. Yeah, Posh Spice lives in the Cotswolds. She does now, yes. Yeah, so essentially not far from where Posh Spice lives. Just right near her, actually. But we didn't have any friends because we lived in London and we were proper like career girls, but our partners were professional sportsmen and got signed to Gloucester Rugby and Cheltenham Football.

21:33So we independently had to move there with our wellies, pregnant, up with Duff, thinking, what the fuck have we done? And then we met in a coffee shop, pregnant and a bit sort of sad, and then we ended up living on the same road. No way. It was meant to be. It was meant to be. But we used to spend our days in a gym in Gloucester, leaving the babies in the creche and eating the Aussie breakfast. Oh, my God. Yeah, we were each other's tribe. No way. Just you two. Yeah. That's so nice. And look at you now. I know. I know, but we could have been lying on the beach. Yeah, I know. No, but I love the idea of the child in the creation.

22:05We don't really have that. It's very few and far between. Right. But it's a great idea. I feel like it's a great business. Are you Sydney-based? I'm Sydney-based, but I'm Northern Beaches. So this is the crazy thing. I was already an outlier because I went to school like an hour and a half away from where I live on public transport. I commuted to like an all-girls Catholic school. So all my friends lived like, you know, in the peak area of that school. and I had to commute out. So number one, I was already an outlier because my parents never would want to drop me to parties or pick me up if I was sick from school or I'd just have to get on with it.

22:39I know you've got really bad period pains. It's now come out. It's probably endo, but like just stay there. Deal with it. Just keep vomiting and catch the bus home. We're not driving. No, God bless them so far. But that already made me an outlier. But then having kids, you know, was like also an outlier. Then like marrying an older guy was like just really put me. I really just couldn't be further out from like somebody in my 20s. But I've met some amazing people and I love it. Meeting your partner, because one of the things I like looking at on your social media is the way that you 100 % perv over your husband.

23:11Like you really fancy him, don't you? Well, you know what? I did him for a while and I feel like I'm still getting out of that state. Like I'm still finding – I feel like you really resent them when you have kids. Tell us about that. What do you mean? um for me I think um because I live so far away he worked in the city so his commutes were like the same where I went to school and some days if there was a breakdown he or if there was heaps of heavy rain he wouldn't get home for three hours and you're there and you've got screaming kids you've been with them for nine hours and you just want a break and I'm like fuck my life I feel like he's just doing this on purpose like you know you really resent them and I think as well um finding time to do things that you like like working out you always just have to fit it around the schedule of feeding or nap time or everything's around the baby whereas they can just be like can I go to the gym or you know they or not even ask yeah not even ask or yeah go out he went for out for lunches a lot with his work which like he was in he's in commercial real estate so apparently as part of the job going out for lunches and like having wine I'm like such an interesting point isn't it We talk about this when our husbands message us and go, just seen in our diary, just seen in my diary that I've got this work lunch thing.

24:21And I'm like, why don't you just call it a fucking lunch? Yeah. Okay. It is a lunch. We do, mate. You're not going on a work lunch. Yeah, work lunch thing. You're going out on a boozy lunch and that's fine. But don't say it's a work lunch. Right? Stop putting work in front of it. It's not work. You're just going out for a nice lunch while I eat the scraps. Yeah. Off the floor, fish fingers. Maybe we should actually do that and put work in front of everything. I'm just going out on this like work shopping trip. I'm going to start doing that too. Work spa. It's kind of a worky spa thing. Totally.

24:45You know, a few months ago I went on a retreat and I felt guilty. God knows why I felt guilty after I had three babies. Because we do. I was going to say it was a work trip and I was going to go as far as buy decals to put on the mirrors so then when I send photos to my husband, he fully believed me. But I didn't have to do that. What did I do instead? Oh, I took him on like the work trip the week after. Oh, yeah. That's a sweetener, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. I was like, do you want to come with me? Go on. I'll get the kids organized with the grandparents. You can come for two nights. The mum guilt thing is something that we're very passionate about trying to bust the doors open on.

25:18But actually it's like here's a baby, here's a whole heap of mum guilt to go with it. What's your take on the mum guilt and how do you cope with it? Oh, I get it real bad. I get the mum guilt real bad. And I was actually just saying to the girls, it's really interesting because I feel like back in the day, well, I don't feel like I know that women relied on men to, you know, stay alive because we relied on men to work so we could be fed. So we did everything at home. but now the times have shifted and women can literally do everything. We can give birth and we can bounce back, however that looks like, while we're feeding and doing the grocery shop, but we can also have a career and we can do that all together and then still make time to pick up our child from school or whatever.

25:59Whereas, you know, men have, it's quite an imbalance because I feel like the roles of men haven't changed in their heads. But so then that mum guilt comes because we've just taken on an extra load we haven't like changed the load or changed the balance we've just do you not think because that's an interesting point which I sort of agree with but also disagree in terms of men's roles because I think would you say that you are in an equal like an equal partnership or not I do I'm really lucky my husband helps a lot but he's also it's like well what's the other option you know where I'm working I'm I have to travel for work he helps a lot but it's also he hasn't taken on the mental load okay so I still like the very much the mental load that we have like whether that's packing I packed all for the trip before to make sure and of course he knows how to pack a bag but it's like panel and urofen and this and that yeah just I said to him all right you need a carry-on bag for the airplane nappies he's like I don't need extra outfits I go it's a 24 hour flight dude what if one of them wheezes themselves like they don't have that mental load that we have or they don't think ahead for doctor appointments and so I do definitely think men are doing a lot more I guess um traditional yeah the role and it has changed but it's until they start taking on that mental load it's not gonna be yeah and how does that happen because like I'm so with you like my husband will we've had a lot of god like this this has evolved over a long period of time we've been on this podcast for eight years not always it's definitely not always been like this yeah but he's like now just probably only in the last six months now it's like he will wake up in the morning be like what have they got today and I'm like oh you know swimming football and he will think to like oh okay I've got the football bag ready it's by the door and I've got the swimming bag ready it's by the door have you got that ready though or has he no no he's done it yeah which i would say this has happened in the last six months yeah okay maybe not even six months maybe three um but how do how do how do we make that shift where they take on that mental load because he still definitely hasn't got the light okay we're going skiing on on sunday and i'm like right you know they need spf for in their jacket they need to you know like you know Like how does that, like how do we make that shift?

28:21I can't understand. How can you take everything out of our brains and just share it? Literally. I don't know. I mean I know people say you just got to stop doing it for them and they'll learn, but then I'm like I stopped doing it for me. My child gets off the plane with hypothermia because they wet their pants seven hours ago. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know how we actually, I mean I had to, I gave my husband a list of one thing to do for this trip that my work trip followed on but you know to a family holiday and I was like all you have to do is lock the dogs in like lock the dogs into some camp board it whatever but that's your when you say lock the dogs in do you mean like lock them in the house yeah yeah so he found someone but then he adds me to the whatsapp group and I'm like oh bloody yeah just I don't I don't need a no I don't like so I just think it's they need to be um proactive I'm very into proactive people which I've recently discovered.

29:16I love when someone's proactive because it takes the mental load from you. You know, whatever that is. I just, even when he goes, what do you want for dinner? I'm like, oh, for fuck's sake. So I have to think of that as well. I've literally done the shopping, cooked the kids dinner, made the pesto for their dinner from scratch, like a housewife. How good would you make? From scratch? Are you lying or did you do it? No, what do you mean? No, because sometimes when I say I made something from scratch, I'm lying. No, like Zoe tried to say to me earlier, I actually love cooking so I can catch her out.

29:44Right. But so she'll go, she goes, oh, I made, you know, I made the sauce from scratch. And like she can look at it. She goes, okay, I did it. She caught me out on it. I sometimes lie because I feel like more of a woman. No, sometimes I lie too. But no, this one I claim because I don't cook. I'm not very good at cooking. Like I'm trying to get better for my kids. So then when I really, I will claim it. I claim it hard. I'm really good. It's one thing I'm really good at. Do you lie about it though? Like I do. Do you say it? If it tastes good? No. If it's like, would you say like, oh, I made this from scratch even to them?

30:13because sometimes I'm like, oh, I made this from scratch, and they go, no, you fucking did it. Well, my kids aren't at that age. They're like, I don't care. I'm still not eating it. You know, so I – well, they actually – do you know what's funny? I don't – my kids never really say that. I don't really give them – okay, that sounds a bit crazy. I don't give them a choice. But, like, unless I'm kind of like, I know you'll like it. I like it. I'm fussy. Eat it. And will they? Yeah, they'll eat it. I mean, that's a bit psychotic. But, no, because I have friends and they're like, oh, my kid won't eat that.

30:41I'm like, my kids won't eat it. Like my son hates pearl couscous, right? And I'm like, I know he hates it because when I said, Navy, just try it. And he tried it and he like gagged. Like he really – and I was like, okay, you don't have to eat it, babe. Sorry, I'll make you something else. Like I will genuinely. Yeah. But if they're just trying to be difficult because it's not, you know, just buttery pasta, I'm like, no, you're eating it or you go to bed hungry. Yeah, is there nothing else so there's never a second? Well, I always give in. I mean, this is what I do. I'm like, okay, I'm like, yogurt.

31:08I end up making four different meals. Oh, see, I won't make something else. Oh, God, it's annoying. I'll be lazy. I'll say, get a yogurt. I do cheese on toast. Oh, yeah, or I'll just do toast with avocado or something like that. You don't like cheese, though, and I'm like, well, how can you say you don't like cheese? Your favorite food is pizza. And also the cheese dreams. It's melted cheese. Do your kids get cheese dreams? Are they, like, what are they? No, cheese dreams. Oh, I was thinking it was a product. I was like, what's cheese dreams? No, sorry, not stringers. I like nightmares. Yes, it's a dairy.

31:34It's really common. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought it was a joke until every time my kids eat pizza or, like, tuna pasta with cheese grater. The middle child is talking smack in her sleep all night. She's like, I'm screaming. And then she screams and sits up. And I'm like, I don't know what possesses girls, the cheese dreams. You've got to stop the cheese at like 4 p.m., right? Oh, yeah, I know. It's so bad. That's one thing nobody really teaches you with motherhood. Oh, I didn't know that until just now. Now you'll be able to put two and two together. No, I give Gigi cheese on toast before bed.

32:04I mean, but I don't know what she does in the night. You can't hear her. I can't hear her. Door shuts. Good night. It's messy when I go up there in the morning. We'll be right back after this short break.

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33:26Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? Was there anything else about motherhood? You know, we've touched on the mom guilt, but like anything kind of physical, because obviously, you know, you're here with your amazing hair care brand. We were talking, we talked lots about postpartum hair loss. I lost half my head of hair when I had my last, my little boy. And it was so devastating for me, genuinely. It knocked me so badly. I have a full head of extensions now. I really didn't feel like myself. I'll have to get you some boof to try, honestly. I want to try boof. Yeah, I'll get you some boof.

33:57I mean, you both have beautiful hair. But yeah, the postpartum hair loss is brutal. Like just on top of everything else, just like a bleeding badge and, you know. split ass and everything else seriously let's just get your hair to fall out and it doesn't it's quite strategic because it starts about six months later yeah it doesn't start you think you're out of the woods and you're just starting to feel like yourself again getting your spark back and then bam so did it happen to you so i'm um so basically the brand started rachel she is not she's not here today she had an appointment but um so she's the co-founder of the brand and they originally came to me and they were like we've got this incredible brand um it's a hair growth product it formulated in japan it's like all backed by science and we want you to try it and you have to document your trial and then promote it you know and i was like guys i am only promoting like i have built this kind of such a you know on social media for so long i've got a really authentic um community who really will take what i say and like do as i say which i'm not like that not like yeah they trust you trust me because i don't i don't promote anything i don't because I'm very real like I'll get online and be like fuck I hate this or whatever so I said I'll only promote it if it works so then about four four weeks in I start and they were really strict on me documenting uploading to a Dropbox because they knew with all the mental load going on I would forget um and about four weeks in I started getting like little hair spouts whatever they're called hair spouts yeah yeah like little bits of hairy yeah like little chicken hairs and then over three chicken heads yeah like a little like baby chair and then over um three months I used the product so I came on as an ambassador right it was just very transactional yeah but then after using the product and seeing results I was like wow this is actually insane and like the before and afters were crazy and um I went back to Rachel and the CEO and I was like guys I would love to be in this in some other way because I really believe in this product and like what you guys are gonna it's it's confidence that you guys are kind of like giving back to women and now men um and so we ripped up that contract and I became like a shareholder of YSB which is like the umbrella brand that have Booth and a few other like a skincare brand and I feel like when you have kids you lose your identity so much and then that on top something that you can you can't control that and I think that's the hardest thing about motherhood.

36:21You lose so much control and it starts from pregnancy and that's why I found it really hard. I think being pregnant with my third because it was a high-risk pregnancy and I lost so much control. And then when you're in, nobody really talks about how not dangerous but childbirth, you know. Like I don't want to scare like mums to be but like it's not your body just does what it's wanting. Nobody's in control. Even when they're monitoring you and whatever, like nobody's actually in control except for your body. Talk to us about that pregnancy and what, like, the impact it had on you. That third pregnancy was a real, it was an interesting one because I got pregnant.

37:01So I had my second child, Bambi, and I had her, I don't know, when I was 24 maybe. Yep, 24 or 25. And then I got a pap smear at, like, your checkup at six weeks and he saw high-risk cells. No, not six weeks, whatever, three months. and he saw like the high-risk cells for cervical cancer came back. So then he did a biopsy and he sent it away and he was like, oh, you've got like a bunch of high-risk cells that we need to remove. So it's called a LETS procedure, I think. Is it the same here? A LETS procedure? Something like that. It's just like you've got those cells that can turn into cervical cancer.

37:37So that's from HPV, which nobody really talks about. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Which I don't know. I didn't know it was so taboo like HPV because you get an – I think do you guys get injections in high school with HPV? We do now, but we didn't get them. Yeah, I got it. But my body was like, girl, here you go. This is not working. So I got those cells removed with my gynecologist and then everything all good. And he was like, you can't stick anything up you or put anything in you, like nothing for two weeks. And I was like, oh, fine. Like it's not like I go near my husband anyway. And I was breastfeeding and hadn't had a period or anything.

38:13So I genuinely had no idea, which people think is crazy. But I had no idea you could get pregnant without a period. Like I didn't know you could ovulate without actually passing blood. So, of course, at the two-week mark, we conceived. How old was your baby? Four and a half months. Wow. I know, because they're 13 months apart, 14 months apart. Wow. Yeah, I think that's right, maths. Yeah, so I conceived then and then that put me in a really high risk because you're not actually meant to get pregnant for a year after that, a year after the procedure. Like you can have sex but it's not meant to get pregnant because your cervix has just been not only did I have a baby four and a half months prior but then my cervix had been cut out and removed.

39:00So then that pregnancy put me in a high risk because my cervix was short and it kept shortening as the pregnancy progressed. And obviously when your cervix is short, that's how you give birth, like the shortest. so regular checkups and um regular scans into like every two weeks because I think the next steps is sewing you up yeah but like if your cervix gets too short yeah so that's sweet because who have we had on the point I think it was Kat it was it Cara Greenwood that came on to talk to us about her cervix she did she had she had that procedure I think I'm right we have heard that story before but not many people have been on it and discussed it like this yeah it was super interesting I never knew and then it's just has it just had so many like a domino effect because then you go in for scans and then they're like literally measuring by like the tight millimeters because it millimeters make such a difference what did that do to you during your pregnancy it really showed me how out of control you people not people I how um the lack of control you have in pregnancy and that there's only so much a medical professional can do to monitor you but it's really up to your body to just kind of take the lead and I was like come on buddy do your thing hold this baby in there we're 26 weeks we ain't you know which I was lucky and then I had to go on progesterone tablets like there's all these things like that just nobody really talks about so I had that um and I think that was quite a depressing time for me because I didn't want to I didn't plan the pregnancy I wouldn't have originally wanted to be pregnant that early on that was so I I felt like I kind of mourned my middle child even though she's very much still alive and healthy I just I didn't never got to really enjoy her yeah and I still feel that when I look at her I'm like oh I feel bad for you no wonder like you're acting like this because you know she gets really sad when I leave home and things like that when I have to go away because I never really got that chance to I try and think back I'm like what were you doing at 12 months I'm like I actually don't remember because because you had a newborn um yeah I almost had a newborn I was like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah of course because basically like from four and a half months or however old she was you were pregnant and then having a high risk pregnancy yes so then I never I felt I was never present because I'm either at a doctor's appointment or I'm with my son who's two and a half because I felt like I was overcompensating for him because I felt bad rather than you kind of look back.

41:26So I think that was a really hard transition. And I do think it's a, especially having them so close in age. And even when I look back at photos now, she was like, you know, so small meeting a newborn baby. And so, yeah, I don't know. I think it really was, it was a weird transition. And I felt a lot of guilt and I still do feel a lot of guilt. And like. I'm sensing that. Let's shed your guilt today. Yeah. You can leave it in London when you go to the house. No, I know. I've actually done kinesiology. Have you? Yeah. What, to release the guilt? Yeah. Yes. Did it work? Release. Well, no, because I'm still here.

42:04No, apparently I think I got a lot in me, so they told me to come back for another one. The guilt and blame that came up. Because I think you very much blame yourself as a mum. You're like, oh, they're acting like this because I've done this. Yeah. By the way, that wasn't me going, I sense guilt from you. guilt was the overriding emotion that I felt for so many years yeah I felt it every time I left the house to go to work and it's weird because as the kids were getting older it was they weren't trying to make me feel guilty they were just saying like oh mommy like why do you leave so early to go and do a radio show and there's me like sneaking out and shutting the door and bursting into tears because I was just like I'm doing a job that I love but I'm leaving my children and it just felt like this push and pull the whole time that's what guilt does guilt's at the door going you can't enjoy yourself because you're going to feel shit for the rest of the day.

42:49Yes, it's so true. And I feel like it just has so many kind of ongoing effects, like even being here and, like, I'm begging Booth to, like, let me go and catch a flight earlier to go to Milan because they get in. I'm like, I have to be there for when they arrive because, like, if I'm not there, if I'm in the air, like, I just feel guilt. I've already been away. Like, it's just this pull. And it's so annoying because I'm genuinely, like, I don't think husbands or fathers get this. I ask. They don't get it. They don't get it. I sat down with James. and asked him, I said to Dozzy the other night, I just want to ask, and there's nothing attached to this, do you ever feel dad guilt?

43:23And he was like, for what? And I was like, well, you know, I don't know, is there any part of it? You know, like if you choose to go up and have a steam in a sauna after work as opposed to coming back for dinner time, and he's like, no, because I'm prioritising what I need in that moment. And I was like, God, I wish I could, and it's not his fault. That's the right way to be. Yeah, I know, but we're just wired, I know. That's what I've asked my husband that he is. Yeah, I feel guilty for you. why are we like that it's so like you said about blame as well you're like oh she's acting that way because I did this yeah but you know from like me sitting here I'm thinking no of course she's not like you know I can see that for you but why can't we not see that for ourselves I think we're just too um I think because you sacrifice so much when you become a mom so it's like your whole identity and you and your whole like that's I I once you have a baby like Like you're not who you were anymore.

44:14Like you're living your life. Every decision you make is for your child. So like I think it's only natural. That's how we become rewired. So it's only natural to feel those feelings, which suck. Like I wish we could just set a boundary with the guilt. Because essentially imagine being in a relationship and feeling like you were not good enough. Sorry, imagine being in a relationship and thinking you were not doing a good enough job, which is essentially what we're constantly, every single day. and that's essentially what guilt does to us. It rewires our brain to think what we're doing, we've sacrificed everything, we've lost our identity, we're showing up for them constantly, but I tell you what, that's not good enough, I don't feel good enough, I feel guilty.

44:52But also, on the flip side, why do we think we are making such an impact that we're shaping every single thing about them? Because we are. No, but we're not. Because they're their own people, right? No, we shape them. If you look at it on the other side. I say it to my husband every day because I'm like, we should be small. I think they're like, we are. We both are. We all, whatever your family set up looks like, that's what. Well, yeah, but regardless, mothers are from the get go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We grow them. So from the moment we start, they're conceived, we have to worry about what we put in our body and what we're doing and we can't do this, we can't do that because you're looking after that baby.

45:30So you start worrying. You know, someone once told me, he goes, you know, as soon as you conceive, you start worrying about this tiny little thing in your belly and if they're kicking, if they're heartbeating and then you never stop worrying until you die. and I genuinely live for that saying because it's so true. I'm halfway across the world and I'm worrying about my husband getting a flight with all three of them on his own because why am I worrying? The passengers should be worrying. In Australia, have you got fridge raiders? No. Have you ever eaten a fridge raider? You know those little bits of chicken that come in those packets.

46:03No. But they're terrible, obviously. Oh, like a chicken nugget? No, not a chicken nugget. they're already cooked what's a fridge raider come on does anyone in the room know what a fridge raider is I'm going to eat essentially they're like bits of protein but if you sort of dive into it I'm sure they're full of like emulsifiers anyway my point is I remember getting some from the petrol station and then I had a mate in the car who's actually not a mate anymore and she was like I cannot believe you're eating fridge raiders and I thought that is the first time I felt guilty as a mother and the fridge raider set the bar because I'm just constantly feeling guilty about my choices you're right right that's parenting in a nutshell when you're pregnant you're eating fridge oh right oh my god I know but like that's not a nice thing for the friend to say no but I think it was your point where it's like it starts and it just doesn't and it just doesn't ever stop and I think we have to we have to it's our responsibility as mothers to try as much as we can to shed it like your husband is going to get to the Alps or Milan and he's all your kids are going to be in one piece and you've got to enjoy your time here and be really present because you deserve it no totally And I do, I have actually really been enjoying my time.

47:09You know, I've spent way too long like looking through the clothing racks and I have really enjoyed it. But I do think there's that guilt in the back of my, I can feel it in the pit in my stomach and even FaceTiming them. We haven't really done because we FaceTime and they fight over the phone and one's fine and the two-year-old takes the phone and she's looking at the camera and then the five-year-old just wants to talk to me. And then the middle child is like, just, you know, doesn't really want to bar with me. So it's like that guilt. Then it's like, oh my God, I feel so bad. I should be there.

47:36and then I, yeah, it's just like that ongoing hamster wheel that you only really can get out of it once. It's not society putting guilt on mothers, but. It's ourselves putting it on ourselves. Yeah, it's ourselves. And we've got to like stop feeling because I really now, whenever I do something, like if I want to have a sauna every day, I'll say, it makes me a better mother. Yeah. It makes me like, and I don't know if I'm taking the piss, but then I'm being serious because I'm like, I've had time. Like I compare myself to with a nine-month-old and I've had a 10-hour day with my child and my husband stuck in traffic and I'm like raging.

48:10Like I want to spiral, but then I compare myself now and I've like done a workout or a walk for an hour and a half and I come back and I'm like, all right, what do you want to do? I got this. Yeah, back in the ring, baby. Let's go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so true. Indy, we like to ask our guests on the podcast the best piece of advice that they would impart to another parent. Oh, that's a really good question. I think the best piece of advice I could give to another parent um what would it be far out you can have a moment so much because I feel like there's so much out there that you got to take with a grain of salt and just do I think it's do whatever feels fitting for you and your partner because I think there's so much on social media and so much that you're like oh no they're breastfeeding oh no I should be breastfeeding oh no like there's so much out there and there's so much judgment from older mums grandparents your own mum your own family you know there's so much judgment I think you just have to do whatever feels right yeah and whatever that feels like because I literally you know if I I had a baby I got pregnant 22 and that felt right but if I listened to the judgment of everyone else and what my friends were doing then I wouldn't be in this position so yeah I think you have to really listen to your heart and follow that I love that and products let's forget about kids products yeah what products are you loving what have you got with you what have you picked up since you've been here um well I am of course I carry around my booth tonic everywhere because I I mean you can't tell now because my hair is tucked in but I literally what do you what do you how do you use the tonic so it's I think I've got it in my bag beautiful your hair does the magical hair swap no but I didn't have this you will die if I show you a photo of what my hair was like before I had about four strands um no literally and then so wow yeah no no I said wow your hair is amazing no I know I'm gonna show you this photo it's I actually post it to my stories um I think it was last week and I was kissing Bambi my middle child we're just talking about that I feel really guilty about and I have this ponytail that is like you know when you when you see a ponytail that thing you're like oh girl you should have like teased that a little it was it was barely there um so that is one thing I carry everywhere I also um what do I always carry oh one thing I just bought to carry everywhere and I was like of course London has this like I have been wanting this for such a long time is this tiny water paints palette like literally that big for because I love water painting right and I'm not like an artist or anything but as a very high energy mom that is always rushing and always has a stomach ache Like the only thing that kind of makes me off my phone is either in the snow where I can't actually grab my phone or a chairlift or kind of being in my own zone, just water painting.

50:57Oh, wow. So now I bought this and a little, I went to this art shop yesterday. It was amazing. And this little thing. So now I'm carrying that everywhere. So you can just do a bit of painting whenever you feel. Yeah. And so my kids can't find it. So they want to touch everything. Don't let them find it with that beautiful jacket on though. I'm sort of getting a bit anxiety around that. I know. And what else? I love a lip balm. What lip balm do you like? I love the Laneige lip mask. Oh, yeah. I use that all the time. It's all I ask for for my birthday every year from my mom. She's always like, it's so hard to buy from my...

51:27Laneige every year. Yeah. And I love an under eye patch because I always look bloody exhausted. Which brand do you like? I don't know. I bought this random Korean brand in the airport in Singapore. Korean skincare is everywhere. It's everywhere, but the ingredients aren't that good for you. But do they work? Maybe. Okay. Well, we can. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But there's an Australian brand called Esme, which I love. And you just, you know what, I just don't know if I'm, like I don't know if they really work under eye patches, but they make me feel like I'm incorporating some self-care when you feel, when you've just had two hours sleep.

52:10I answered the door with them on the other day. we used the beauty pie ones and I forgot I had them on and I opened the door it's a posty and he's so lovely and he's like all right I was like it's all for the greater good grab the post shut the door I think they work yeah do you the thing is with me though I'm like oh I don't know if anything's going to kind of restore back into the hollow eyes unless that's filler like it's not going to restore you know what I mean I'm like you don't need it hollow you don't need it ain't no eye patches helping that that's okay I love a good under eye cream oh yeah couldn't tell you the ran don't know well tell us afterwards we could put it in the show yeah we will oh okay okay yeah yeah okay thank you so much for coming on what a joy I can't believe how quickly it's gone what an amazing chat I could chat to you guys for hours and we should go for cocktails I know we should well I'm here one more night one night baby that's all we need thank you so much for we on indy yay thanks guys how wonderful is indy i i just felt like in fact when when she was leaving i was a bit like oh can we swap numbers because i just feel like she's one of those people that you want as your mates and obviously we're obsessed with what she's doing with booth as well um so we can't wait to try that all in all a thoroughly wonderful conversation i hope you guys enjoyed it as much as we did next time you hear us georgia will have ordered herself a new pair of headphones and she wouldn't have been a bad bad podcaster have a fantastic week as always we'd love you to write review subscribe and please give our podcast a follow massive thank you to indie you can find us at made by mamas on instagram and we'll be back on friday