Jessica May

0:00Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

0:37You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. This week on Help, I sexted my boss.

1:20pour a coffee on ice cream it's called Affogato and I think it's going to take the UK by storm I think it has taken the UK by storm I think about 20 years ago when it sort of was popular literally his s**t shot out and splashed straight into my freshly lasered eye oh for God's sake you could have been eating a particularly girthy banana for all they know you don't eat a banana like that Ben I wouldn't know how you'd eat a willy so I'm sorry listen and watch wherever you get your podcasts

1:50Jessica May: Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review.

2:23You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it?

2:29Jessica May: We meet again. We do. We meet again. We meet every Tuesday for the last eight years. It's not really a surprise. What's going on in your world? I mean, the usual. Not a lot. No, but a lot. No, just I'm really looking forward to the summer. Oh my God. Well, it It was the last weekend of spring, like 10 days ago. Yeah, and my mum and dad have moved. Oh, my God. They live 10 minutes down the road from me now. Now, is there a feeling that that might be too close or are you happy? No, I'll be changing next of kin on the school forms so they can get the phone calls. A hundred percent. How did the move go?

3:08Fine. Like, it was, you know, it was all right. I mean, I do feel like I'm an only child. I feel like I was the adult on the move day. They look to me like, well, what should we do now? What happens now? And I'm like, what? What? What? Hello, I'm your child. Listen, I'm just here for support. No, do you know what? I've not lived near my mum and dad for like 16 years or something. It's a long time, George. And they hadn't moved house for like 25 years maybe. What's their place like? They have bought a 200-year-old cottage. How cute. It is so cute. It's like beams. It's like a holiday home. That's the only way I can describe it.

3:45It's like going into a holiday home. It's so sweet. Kids are going to love it. But it's a big change for them. Like, it definitely is. But also for us, like, even at the beginning of the week, I mean, James always says to me, or sends me an email, actually, how formal. He says, when do you need me this week? Because basically, he's probably got an email from work from someone like, where are you this week? And then he's basically like, oh, I need to ask my boss. One moment, cool. Yeah, sorry. where do you need me this week and I was suddenly like oh we've got a different life now we don't need to like no be frantically you know running around are they gonna do everything well my mum's literally said to me she's like please don't forget about us we can pick up from school we can take to dancing we can take to gymnastics and I'm like oh my god book us a fucking flight to beaver and let's get the hell out of here I knew that was the whole reason why they were moving because they wanted to be more involved and they wanted to be around more.

4:42But suddenly I'm like, oh, I need to change my mindset of like, oh, actually, yeah, okay.

4:50Jessica May: You don't have to do everything now. I know. Yes! Oh, God, it's so weird. Let's all celebrate Georgia's freedom. I know. Yeah, so anyway, it's going to take getting used to and like remembering. I'm really pleased. Enjoy it as well. Lovely having your parents around for you as well. Yeah, no, no, no, exactly. And like on Saturday morning, Gigi was at ballet, tap, acro, doing all her things. And I just popped in, had a cup of tea, had a chat, sat in the garden, then went a bit to up. Like just had half an hour with my, you know, just that is what I wanted. Lovely. But anyway, how are you? I'm pretty cool, actually.

5:28Jessica May: Big news in my camp for a second week running. Yeah. I am DJing at Universe, which is the biggest club in the world, on David Getter's night. Two nights in August in the bunker with Disco-licious. Disco-licious was started by Denise Van Alten and Gemma Bolt, two of my favourite humans. And there's a few of us signed to their agency. And they have only gone and got themselves a residency every Friday night. So there's like 10 ,000 capacity. The bunker is, no, that's not where we're DJing. one of the rooms off the main room is called the bunker and it's like the party room, smaller vibes. Yeah, the cool place.

6:05Jessica May: It's where the cool kids are. You fucking asked me to go and do two nights. Back to back, six hours I've got to DJ for, but back to back, first one with Pips Taylor, second one with DVO and Gemma Bolt. But genuinely, at 42, as a mother of three, this is a massive tick box for me. It is amazing. Obviously, massive imposter syndrome set in when the call came in and I was like, I can't do it and he was like get a grip he was like you are going to do this and you're going to smash it out the park but I just thought weirdly I thought will everyone laugh at me and weirdly I thought well do people think I'm good enough which is so strange isn't it to go through because I know that I'm good enough you know you're doing care people if they laugh at me or not yeah and it's it's incredible and also I bet a lot of people listening what dates is it because they'll come watch it.

6:54Jessica May: Please come. Book your flights. Now is your time. 15th of August, 22nd of August. Two nights, Friday night, be there. I could be there on one of the days. You are fucking coming. Okay, bye. Yes, anyway. Enough of us. Let's get into today's podcast. A beautiful, beautiful, very raw, open and honest conversation on a subject we have never discussed like this before. No, in eight years doing this podcast, which I cannot believe it's that long. Maybe it's nearly eight years. I might be exaggerating. But nobody has ever come on the podcast and talked about this subject and so openly and so rawly. I'm still kind of taking it all in to that level because the bravery that it took today to come and sit down with us and share what she has been through.

7:45Jessica May: This conversation will have your jaw on the floor. I don't even want to say anything else just stick around for it it's brilliant Georgia who are we talking to today we're chatting to Jess Turner joining us on the podcast today I guess what started off as essentially cleaning and home interiors today's guest invited people into her home to discuss those things her life got flipped on its head by something that we will be discussing in depth today and and now it's really about how this person is navigating their new life through heartbreak after infidelity so it's going to be a big conversation we know it is please welcome jessica may turner to the podcast it's my first ever podcast so i'm very very nervous but i know i'm in safe hands you don't need to be nervous for your last you really really don't so just before we get into the chat do you want to just give us a little bit of insight Zoe sort of mentioned that you started off with cleaning videos but it's kind of changed recently so just tell us a little bit about yeah so I have been creating content on social media for probably about eight years now and it all kind of started with cleaning videos and home interiors and it was during lockdown that things started to go like big and then recently I purchased my new house and I decided on the day before I bought that house and moved in that I was going to announce to the world or to all my online friends on social media that I had been cheated on by my ex and that led to a huge rise in you know people's engagement in the videos that I was creating and the relatability of that and it was really something that I didn't see coming to be honest you didn't see the reaction from people coming as in you'd made the decision to talk to your followers about the fact that your husband has been cheating on you he's my boyfriend your boyfriend boyfriend yeah yeah yeah how long had you guys been together we had been together for 10 years and we had two children together yeah we have a nine-year-old and now a four-year-old as well at the time obviously when he started his affair things were a little bit different but that's the ages they are now um and I think kind of it took me a long time to step forward and say this happened to me like a really really long time um because I was very embarrassed that something like that could happen but it was when embarrassed I was yeah I was very embarrassed but it was when I bought my house and I felt like a little bit prouder of myself that I thought I actually really need to share with my audience because they are they're part of my life like they you know I speak to these people every single day quite a lot of them and I just thought I actually need to be honest and say this is actually the real reason why we broke up and this is the real reason why I'm really proud of myself yeah getting to where I am today so when you originally broke up did you share that you'd broken up but just not go into detail truthfully I don't remember yeah I actually don't remember I think I was just kind of continuing to create videos because when we first broke up I was sort of in a situation where I was relying upon him as like the financial supporter like he he was bringing in the money into the house and I was just making videos and earning a little bit of money whilst looking after the children and when we first broke up that was when my videos started to go viral like my cleaning videos and my account in the space of maybe a month went from having 200 000 followers to 1.6 million and you know I'm a big believer of like destiny and fate and things aligning and I think that's exactly what happened it was the you know the universe saying we've got you yeah you're gonna be all right you're gonna be all right keep going and so I just continued making like those cleaning videos and I think what my audience maybe started to notice was that I did the typical I went started going to the gym I started taking better care of myself I started to look different and it was then they started asking questions and they were like what's going on what's happened and the next thing you know sort of I maybe made a video of like a single mum evening routine and it was like ah the light bulb moment for all of them that's what's happened she's not just taking care of better care of herself just let's go back to your time with your ex and seemingly in your eyes everything was all hunky-dory everything was going great yeah talk us through that moment where you discovered that actually that wasn't the case because I actually think that is a I don't know about you George and we've never actually spoken about this but my deepest fear my deepest wound and I think maybe a lots of people is is that love is so when you give your heart to somebody and you share your life with somebody it's a knife edge right because you put your trust in somebody and you give them your heart at least I do yeah I'm sure you guys have been together since you were 17 so but you do you guys love each other to you know to death and it's it's it's a very scary place to be when you have given everything to that person but it's also really beautiful and rewarding but you never really know do you if that if your heart is going to be taken care of you don't this I think that's the hardest part of it all so when um I first kind of found out about what he was doing only a few you know a few months before or the year before so to speak we had just bought a brand new house together it was the end of lockdown it was sort of you know the end of the covid era 2021 and in the january we bought we kind of upgraded our house whilst i was pregnant with our second child and then my second child our second child was then born in april um and it was in the march of the following year that like it's really hard to explain but he had been going out a fair amount and not coming home and I think I was so busy with the children that I just I just really didn't pay any attention to it and I was like oh he is where he says he is like you know he's sleeping on a friend's sofa like that's what he's doing classics classic story tale as old as time and it wasn't until I think maybe kind of all this like bubbling frustration in me and the doubt and sort of you know the reality of I'm juggling two children whilst also trying to work and hustle on the side of you know making videos and content on instagram that the pressure was just bubbling and bubbling and my mum came around one day and I just snapped at her I was so upset and I was so angry with her and her reaction was just because he's cheating on you doesn't mean you can treat me that way wow and she left and she walked out the door and I was like hang on what what and he's upstairs laying in bed hung over because he's been out the night before and he's just got home and I go upstairs and I say to him like are you cheating on me no no no no no I'm not doing that I'd never do that we've just you know we've got a baby we've got all that no no but the seed had been planted in my head hadn't it so I think a few weeks later we went for a family walk and And I remember at the time our youngest, like she's, you know, she wasn't even one, but she soothed really well by listening to nursery rhymes, like on a phone.

15:34And you would put it in or some white noise and I would push her and she'd fall asleep. And my phone had run out of battery that day for whatever reason. And he wasn't concentrating and he gave me his phone. And it was the first time I'd got hold of his phone in months and months and months.

15:51Jessica May: Right. and I took the baby off pretending to put music on and instead I spent over an hour reading through messages on his phone and the most heartbreaking part of all that is I I hate to admit it but I let my baby sit there and I let her cry because I was so consumed by what I was seeing and I was so devastated that I almost didn't hear the noise she was making I was pushing her but I just wasn't paying her any attention because I was so I was in shock I couldn't believe what I was seeing oh my god firstly letting your baby cry for an hour is not the most heartbreaking thing no no no I know I know but I think for me like the kind of that that continues throughout all of the story is that you you you prioritize that person because you want to make things better and actually forget about the children a bit and that's what I think that's the bit I hold on to and feel quite sad about sometimes I feel I missed out on part of their lives because I was so obsessed with trying to save our family but yeah so you've obviously found out the messages were there the evidence was there what happened next uh I left him where he was so we I calmly walked back to where he was with my oldest daughter and I just said to her you need to come with mummy we're gonna go and wash our hands and go to the toilet come with mummy and he knew that I knew I don't know how he knew but he knew and as I was walking away he came after us and I started putting the children into the car and he was just very like he was like I'm coming with I'll come with you in the car I'm coming with you in the car and I just I just shut the whole car down so the children couldn't hear me and I very calmly said to him you're not you're staying here I don't care how you get home but you're not coming home with us well done yeah that's probably the only time I was really the strongest out of the whole thing because I was I just the main thing for me was I never wanted the children to hear us fighting yeah and so I thought I have to just take them away and I went straight to my mum and I just stood there and I went you were right yeah you were really right what was that moment like for you try and put that into words for us i mean is you know when you you know when you're like you feel butterflies in your stomach where like you just know something terrible like it's hard to explain it's like my heart is pounding i was just i was completely and utterly devastated like you know i'm looking at my children and i'm thinking what are we gonna do yeah like how are we ever gonna survive this like i don't have a job like I don't have any way of putting a house over your head or like you know giving I just everything I fell to the ground and I cried so many times because it was just heartbreaking do you think that he played into that a lot as in if you look back on the I don't know whether it was going on for weeks or months before you found out but do you think there was an element of him realising or in his mind thinking that you didn't have anywhere to go he had the power I think so maybe I think I think maybe I actually sometimes think to myself that he um he didn't really ever he didn't really want to leave because he knew that I would find it difficult and he didn't want the children to be in that situation or me is what I like to believe it might not be so true but I think that he was very he was very aware that without him I wouldn't have anything I wouldn't be able to provide for the children and one of the conversations we did have like because he's he did stay for you know about 18 months after I found out right okay yeah what happened um then yeah so he so after I found out what happened he came he came home eventually and um just told me that it was a one night stand and a mistake and naturally I wanted to believe him but deep down I knew that wasn't the case yeah yeah he'd actually been texting her whilst I was in labor with our youngest daughter so I knew this had been going on for a little while but he'd always said that they were friends um and so it was kind of then seeing it in black and white that it really like confirmed everything he told me that he would stop and he he couldn't stop he was like addicted to that feeling that he had validation validation and it's sort of like a dopamine hit that they receive and it's you know it's all a lovely like a lovely feeling and yeah he kind of pretend he just he just was absolutely adamant that he was going to stop like I'm not doing it anymore I won't do it and then he did you know he just he just continued but without me knowing but deep down I did know there were little signs you just said did you talk to your friends in at this you know during this time so that you've you've obviously you know that it's happened and then for 18 months you tried to make it work did you talk to them about that yeah I did so pretty much all my friends knew because I was just seeking I think what I was trying to seek was trying to find somebody who had been through it yeah yeah and it was like there must be someone and they must have like a positive story like that's what I need is I need like a story of they didn't continue the affair they came back they came back yeah yeah and everything was better like that's what I was searching for like I think frantically even trying to look on like TikTok and Instagram it was like I will find someone who has a positive story and like their partner came back to them that was all I wanted but you just couldn't I couldn't find anybody who maybe not didn't have a positive story but I couldn't find anybody that I knew who had been through it right and could say to me like it's all going to be okay that was the bit I really struggled with the most other than perhaps like my own mom I think my mom had been through similar yeah and she was like you will be okay on your own like you will.

22:07I was like, I won't. I can't do this without him. Of course. Of course you'd feel like that. Yeah, naturally. We'll be right back after this short break.

22:19Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

22:56You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. This week on Help, I Sexted My Boss.

23:40Pour a coffee on ice cream. It's called Affogato. And I think it's going to take the UK by storm. I think it has taken the UK by storm. I think about 20 years ago when it sort of was popular. Literally, his s*** shot out and splashed straight into my freshly lasered eye. Oh, for God's sake. You could have been eating a particularly girthy banana for all they know. You don't eat a banana like that, Ben. I wouldn't know how you'd eat a willy, so I'm sorry. Listen and watch wherever you get your podcasts.

24:11Jessica May: Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? And were you trying to make it work at this point? Did you believe deep down? Because the forgiveness around an infertility, I mean, it's virtually impossible because the trust has been broken. so how do you then re-engage at that level and say right we've was it the kids was it you know were you able to forgive and forget how did that work i do think naturally when infidelity takes place that as the victim of the infidelity you blame yourself you say it's all my fault that he did that and i think that's like a lot of people a lot some people say that too they're like well what did you do wrong for him to go off and have an affair and do those things and you You think, I can look at it now.

24:54And I'm like, oh gosh, like, well, I really didn't do anything. But at the time I was like, it must be there's something wrong with me. I must have done something that caused him to go off. What was it? What did I do? And when I looked at it all, I was like, well, you know, I've got a new baby. I've got, you know, a one-year-old. I maybe haven't paid him as much attention as he needed. You know, when he gets home, I'm not going, I'm so happy you're here. Like, let me have, you know, give you a big cuddle and a kiss. Like, you're home, amazing. Instead of them going, God, you don't know what kind of day I've had.

25:30Like, you know, the classics. You know, it's just sort of, I'm exhausted. Here's the baby. I need a rest. But he's just been at work all day. And so naturally kind of a distance starts coming between us. I was also breastfeeding our youngest. And I didn't necessarily, like, we weren't sleeping in the same bed. so you know our kind of sexual encounters were less yeah but none of these is all this is all totally normal totally normal things but i think some men need like they need that extra validation that they can't really accept that this is how their relationship is and so when you have got you know a younger person stepping up and being you know a little bit flirty and you're at home when you've got your you know your wife or your longtime partner and they're exhausted and looking a little bit kind of worse for wear because they're looking after the kids and everything else it's it's natural for a man's head to maybe be turned by that I think it happens more than we

26:34Jessica May: know yeah I'm sure I just don't know I just I just feel so I hate even hearing you kind of sit there and like reel off the things that were going on because I feel like you know because we're mothers going through the scariest, most brilliant, wonderful, amazing, but fucking terrifying times of our life. And that is our reality for a period of time, for however long that goes on for. And therefore, the fact that that happened during that period for you, I imagine there was a lot of healing to be done for you around that time. An unbelievable amount of healing. And it was really hard because I think I was trying to heal whilst he was still living with me.

27:15Oh yeah. yeah and I and parenting like looking after two young children yeah I was trying to do it all and I just I we would we would take steps forward in that you know we're trying to make it better we're trying to do this and then he would do something and we'd be right back to where we started and in the end it got to a point where I was like I actually just have to focus on me yeah and how am I going to make sure that I'm better so that I'm not so I'm taking care of my kids correctly so that I'm doing really well in my jobs like what am I going to do yeah and I seeked refuge in the gym yeah that was where I went I just went to the gym and I worked out as much as I possibly could but trying to heal whilst living with someone that you're trying to get over is the hardest thing in the world what was the sort of turning point for you where you realized no, this is not going to get better.

28:09It was when she called me. Oh, she did. Right. Yeah. She called me and told me everything. Right. She answered all of the questions, all of the question marks, I would say, because there were so many question marks on things that I had maybe found and or seen. and she just said you were actually correct with all of them right she said like he has been lying

28:41Jessica May: and it turns out he'd actually been lying to both of us but how do you feel about her phoning you i don't really know like it's so at that point in time i remember it really clearly i was in bed asleep and he hadn't come home and my phone rang and it was a number I didn't know and I just answered the phone and she was like hi Jess it's and I was like what's happened what's happened to him and you were concerned for his safety at this point yeah I thought something had happened to him and she just said oh we'd had a they'd had an argument and she wanted to know the truth from my side and I was like well that's funny because I'd like to know the truth from your side and we actually did end up meeting up the next day and we talked through everything oh how is that wow it's interesting to say the least I think it's an opportunity so you almost like want to compare yourself and you want to say what's so special about her that's why that's what I wanted to know it was like what is so special about her like why has he done this and you know she's like she's she's a very nice very nice girl she's still part of their life now and are they together they are they are yeah and you know she spends time with my children and takes care of them and I'm I am really grateful to her for how she treats my children that's the one thing I do always stand by is that you know they did what they did but but they are still together.

30:19And she is amazing with my children. And to have someone step in as, in that step-mom role, you hear horror stories and you're growing up with, you know, step-moms are villains in the Disney movies. Oh yeah, the wicked step-moms. Yeah, yeah. But she's not that, she's great. And like my youngest daughter absolutely loves her to pieces. She thinks she's like so much fun. Would you ever, would you hide how they got together when you talk to your kids about potentially if questions came up around why mommy and daddy broke up? No.

30:55Jessica May: No, you're going to tell them. They know. They know. Well, the youngest one doesn't, but the oldest one does. She's nine. So she was seven and a half when he moved out. And it was only at that point that we started really arguing and she overheard us arguing. right and she heard everything and I remember her laying in her bed and she said is is daddy really going to leave us for for somebody else and I remember holding her so tight and I said no he's not he's going to stay and then he obviously did but I would know she does speak about it sometimes but she doesn't she likes her yeah and she's happy like you know my youngest my oldest and my youngest are both really happy with how things are and actually my oldest did say to me the other day she said i'm i'm i'm glad you and daddy broke up she said because you are now both really happy and it's nice to spend time with both of you she said i wouldn't want you to get back together because i know how sad it made you so grown up isn't it yeah perspective why is there so much shame around talking about affairs as in you know you're sitting here today telling your story and so openly yeah we're so grateful i know but we're really grateful that you would come on and talk so openly because i think it must be difficult but also i don't think people want to talk about it well they also want to protect the person that has done the cheating yeah please please talk to us about that i think there's so much shame surrounding affairs and i think it's rare for someone to come forward and say this happened to me yeah you know I think that but I don't I think my main thing is I just don't understand why why would we not come forwards and say this happened to me and I am a victim of this like it just seems it it's like it's a taboo subject and I'm I just don't ever I don't understand why it is I mean I felt that way but now that I've come forward and I've said this happened it's actually incredible how many women and some men come forward and they say yeah that happened to me too and it's like you start a topic of conversation where people suddenly feel like they can say oh this is my experience yeah and I love that I love that they don't feel alone I was gonna say do you think it's because people blame themselves like you said oh because if they must be like wrong with me because they cheated yeah it almost feels like yeah I think it's maybe not so much protecting the person that you know did what they did it's more the it is more the embarrassment I think and I think that's what some people have said to me is like you should be ashamed of what you're putting on there or your children are going to hate you when they get older and they realize what you've said about their dad i'm like hang on i've not actually said anything about their dad i've just said that he cheated on me and that isn't uncommon in fact it's quite quite popular people do it all the time it's not people said to you um just mainly that i must have done something wrong like you it's your fault were you depriving him of something were you not giving him attention and throwing him under the bus you said earlier on yeah throwing me throwing i'm throwing him under the bus i'm like but really no one no one knows who he is no one knows who she is yeah i think unfortunately it's one of those situations where actions do have consequences yeah and he's just really unlucky that i happen to have a large following on social media who want to hear that kind of story are you doing it and I don't think this you're not doing this to punish him no a lot of people say that I'm doing it for revenge but you haven't said who he is no yeah and it's 100 % it's not for revenge at all and it's not because I'm bitter and it's not because I want him back or I you know want anything bad to happen to them I am genuinely really happy for them I'm so happy Like I'm so happy to the point where it's like, I'm just glad that they're still together and it was all worth it.

35:23That was what I will always say is that I'm glad that the heartbreak and all the pain I went through led to them being really happy together. Wow. That's how I see it. I think, you know, everyone deserves to have love and I will find that kind of love too. But you're sorry, you have to remind me of the question. It was just, is it a pun? Is it a pun?

35:43Jessica May: Are you doing it to educate people and talk to people so people feel less alone? Or is it a punishment towards him? So yeah, it's not a punishment towards him at all. It's to spread awareness and to just kind of help other women. That's what I really want to do. Like I've set up a Facebook page for single women and I share all of my journey on like my YouTube page and everything else just to kind of give a woman who is maybe right at the very start of this or is maybe in the middle of it that there is hope and that there is a positive story it's as I was saying to you there is there was nothing there was sort of infidelity pages you could read but there was nothing of like a story of hope that perhaps you need and so I just wanted to share it for that reason really it's kind of like yeah that happened to me and you know it might have looked to all of you that my life on social media was perfect you know she's got the nice house she's got the loving partner she's got the two kids like all the cleaning products everything everything's amazing in her life and it's actually it wasn't normal just like everybody else and also I think as well like to show that and like to not have any sort of like you know shame around things not working out is so admirable to help other people because you didn't have to no you could have just carried on like doing what you were doing like talking you know doing your cleaning videos talking about being a single mom not going into detail like I'm sure lots of people would yeah but you decided no do you know what this happened to me it must have must be happening to loads of other people and I'm gonna make everyone feel like actually it's okay if it happens to you and it's not your fault yeah I think that's the main thing is it's okay if it happens to you like it you didn't do anything no you didn't do anything at all and don't blame yourself and I cannot I would love to give you my phone and say go through my dms and read the messages that I get from women who are you know in loveless marriages or women who know that their partners are having affairs or just women who have just literally just found out and some of them are like you know I'm pregnant or I've got a really young baby or I've got three kids and what the hell do you do I just reply to them and I say to them you know it's going to be okay you have to make a choice that's right for you do you want to stay or do you want to go or you know do you have support around you do you have people who can help you because actually leaning on your family and friends and telling them what's happening is so beneficial because you feel like they can wrap you up and protect you we'll be right back after this short break Thank you.

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39:51That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. This week on Help, I sexted my boss. Pour a coffee on ice cream. It's called Affogato. And I think it's going to take the UK by storm. I think it has taken the UK by storm. I think about 20 years ago when it sort of was popular. Literally, his s*** shot out and splashed straight into my freshly lasered eye. Oh, for God's sake. You could have been eating a particularly girthy banana, for all they know. You don't eat a banana like that, Ben. I wouldn't know how you'd eat a willy, so I'm sorry.

40:29Listen and watch wherever you get your podcasts.

40:36welcome back to this episode of made by mamas now where were we i do feel with cheating that

40:44Jessica May: you can forgive and you can move forward like i definitely have stories in my life around me where it's happened so do i definitely yeah it's it's it's actually everyone that i know is is that is the husband or the partner that's cheated at the male male partner but i do think it's very it's about you and your relationship and whether you can rebuild that trust and if you feel like the trust has been severed so badly in some cases I think you can't come back from if the affair is continual when it happens keep happening but I think there's definitely so I think anybody listening to this who's maybe discussed there it's not always curtains down no you know if you want to rebuild it both of you together you can come back yeah a hundred percent yeah you can come back I think it's one of those things it's like you might not ever forget.

41:29Jessica May: Yeah. And you might struggle with the trust, but you can go to counseling. Couples counseling is a fantastic way. Also communicating with each other more effectively. And, you know, perhaps asking that person, you know, laying down like these are the things that I'm really struggling with in our relationship now that this has happened. Would you mind, you know, letting me know what the password is on your phone? would you mind letting me have a tracker it could be the things the things that are going to make you feel more comfortable in your relationship you have to just openly be able to communicate that with that person all the phone things interesting we've often spoken about this haven't we about the phone thing yeah as in like i i you could go through my phone i wish that i wish there was anything naughty i mean there isn't and you wouldn't find a fucking thing on it yeah But then would I feel uncomfortable if I knew that Doz had gone through my phone without saying to me, can I have a look?

42:27Jessica May: You know, he's never said to me, can I have a look on your phone? But has he ever gone through it? Have you ever, you know, like, it's that weird kind of thing, isn't it? It's like it's sitting on the side. It's almost winking at you going, have a look at me, check me, check me. But actually, once that's done, then you've stepped over the line. Like, we have to have some form of privacy because I don't know what I'm trying to say here. I'm sort of musing with my thoughts. Yeah, because sometimes, like, I mean, I'll have conversations with, like, my friends that I probably wouldn't have if my husband was in the room.

42:57But it doesn't mean it's anything wrong. Like, what? Do you know what I mean? But, like, we'll have, like, I don't know, jokey conversations that I think I'd feel like my privacy has been invaded if someone else read. Even though they're not wrong. But it's just, there's got to be a line, hasn't there? There does. There does. I think with it though, when you have been cheated on, that's a totally different ballgame. When I said to you, I looked through his phone, I felt really bad looking through his phone. I was sort of like, I shouldn't be doing this. I shouldn't ever want to do this. But you know, your gut feeling tells you you've got to do that to find out the truth.

43:38But maybe I think after, if you were going to say, right, well, I would like our relationship to move forwards, as we were saying I think it would be okay to say that to say actually I would like a little bit more kind of if I'm going to trust you again I need to be able to say like can I look at your messages and just know and you but you might find that you don't ever actually do it but it's just knowing that that's available if you need to yeah it's an it's and how are you co-parenting now

44:08yeah um so I would say we were co-parenting really very well until I made a video about everything and that communication just stopped we still do communicate like we still do very well in that the handovers are absolutely fine we're very pleasant he's never brought up the videos that I've made but I know that he's seen them but yeah we just we do we do co-parent very very nicely like you know he came to my daughter's birthday party recently and so did she how was that yeah because I can imagine it might not have been for you you you've made that decision that you're you know you were comfortable with but I guess is it other people the internet hated me for that one they really did they couldn't believe that I would do that they said you don't have any respect for yourself or any boundaries but it goes to what I was saying to you both is that I really like her I think she's great with my kids I don't necessarily like her as I wouldn't be her best friend but why would I not have her at my daughter's birthday party when my daughter likes her so much and she's part of my daughter's life you are a bigger person than I would be I'd be like that but what about other people like your friends like and people in the room like your family like how did they feel I don't know you don't know it's so difficult I think wow oh yeah what a big conversation it's a big conversation I mean I remember my sister walking in and she was she just blanked them completely blanked them like she just was like I'm not even entertaining that like no my mum is really pleasant with him and I guess so much with her as well she's just sort of like well they're part of our lives she's very much like me she's like they're just part of our lives so

45:55Jessica May: we have to deal with it yeah let's get on with it i guess i guess how do we feel about her in all of this this is a very interesting because yeah okay she knew he was married but is it is it something because for me if i god i'm happily married but if if i was single i would never get with somebody's husband but that's just because of my morals um fucking hell i hope it doesn't happen Imagine that. You'll have to go back to this piece of podcast. But I think I'd be like, you're married, so I wouldn't go there. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Do you know what I'm saying? Because there's a whole life there to destroy.

46:30It's that whole thing as well. If you're doing that to someone else, you would probably do it to you. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's... I think how cheating begins is there's no intention that you're going to steal someone else's partner. I just don't... I like to believe that isn't true, that a woman doesn't go, oh, do you know what? He's really fit. Don't care if he's married. Don't care if he's married. Don't care if he's got a little kid at home. I'm going to go there. I don't think. Yeah, I know what you mean. It's that you start building a relationship. Like that's, it all starts with what they call an emotional affair.

47:04Yeah. Where you're, where that, like, you know, for him, he was feeling like I wasn't giving him any attention. So he started talking to her because they were already friends. And the next thing you know, it's kind of progressing into something a little. bit more they're on a night out they're a little bit drunk they have a kiss yeah and i think i would like to believe that that's how most affairs start it's kind of seeking solace in somebody where you're maybe missing a bit or just even saying to them like i'm really struggling at home yeah this is what's happening they're confiding that's the word i'm looking for and then they come they that person steps in and they're like i'm really sorry that you're feeling that way how can i soothe you yeah how can i how can i make that better for you yeah in reality perhaps you should maybe go to the person's partner and say to them you know he spoke to me about this and i just thought i wanted to make make you aware but you're not you don't like you know she didn't know me she didn't owe me anything either she had she didn't know me at all but you know in hindsight maybe she should have said to him like you really should speak to jess about this not me but yeah she starts having feelings for him they're spending time together every single

48:21Jessica May: day what's the overriding last thought on this whole thing because obviously we've had a really big beautiful brave conversation around it and i'm really grateful to you we are aren't we really really grateful because we've never had someone that's come on and spoken about an affair before yeah seven years of the podcast so no which i think is really really brave um your final thought on it all and what you would like in your life going forward what would I like in my life going forwards happiness I have a lot of happiness and I have a lot of love I have my lovely children and everything else and something I practice quite regularly is gratitude and to be honest I do feel like my life is very full and that I don't I don't need a man to make me feel like complete as a woman but I'm really okay with saying yeah I'm a single mum and I'm doing it yeah and I have my lovely family I'm so close to my family I speak to them every day and I have my friends same scenario speak to all of them I love them you have people who you are a lot closer with after you've had an affair as well you really you find those people they call people um yeah I don't that's how I you know potentially one day I might start dating someone and I did I did date someone last year he was amazing we're still really good friends but I just wasn't ready I had a lot of trauma I had to deal with yes um but yeah I don't know just I feel like watch the space yeah watch the space yeah and for anyone listening i guess who you know has been through something like this or is going through something like this has got a friend who's going through something like this what advice would you give to them it would be like don't don't stay for the sake of your children because that's what i did i didn't necessarily say you know this is how I want to be treated like I you know I would I've always said throughout life if someone cheated on me I would leave them straight away but when you have children involved it's so easy to to just say right I have to stay for the children because we should be a family we should be together but you're jeopardizing your own happiness and if someone's not treating you the way you want to be treated they're not respecting your boundaries and they're not respecting you as a person it's okay to walk away and to say actually I have enough respect for myself to know that this isn't okay and always know that as long as you are happy your children will be happy yeah that's the bit I stand by because I think that was my biggest fear was that my children are going to really struggle with this because I had been from a family which my parents had got divorced quite young and I thought I don't want that for them but my children are really happy they're you know the happiest they've probably ever been and like they're thriving and they have all these lovely adults around them who love and care for them and I'm grateful for all of those things a beautiful last thought um and for anybody listening that's going through something similar or knows somebody going through something similar I'm sure Jess is there on hand to answer any of your questions in dms hang on in there um Jess thank you so much for coming on the thank you both for having me thank you thank you wow it's a lot isn't it when you hear somebody talk about it listen we all know it happens like you know Jess said in the chat happens all the time happens to so many people her DMs are flooded with people that it's happened to but it feels like one of the last taboos like it feels like one of the things that people still feel shame around which is mad because I mean I don't know anyone who's felt it's been that that's happened do you know what I mean like why is it shameful um but yeah I mean gosh hats off to Jess for talking about it and being the person who's like you know what I'm not ashamed that that's happened to me like it did happen to me and you know what like I'm okay now and also what a beautiful lesson for all of us to let go of the anger yeah and the bitterness and for her to sit there today and say actually his new partner is amazing with my kids.

52:39Jessica May: And actually, I quite like her. I thought, oh my God, I'd be literally making tiny little voodoo dolls of them both and burning them on log fires. Do you know what I mean? I don't think I'd be able to sit on a podcast and say, so fair, like hats off to her. Beautiful, what a beautiful heart. What a beautiful soul. I know. And also, you know, anyone who's listening, who's maybe going through it and they don't think they'll ever get to that place and they see people like Jess, who's coping so well, I think she showed that it wasn't a like overnight, like, you know, wake up the next day and, oh, okay, I've moved on and I'm all right.

53:10Like, you know, she tried to make it work for a long time. You know, I don't think she probably liked the other woman straight away. It is definitely a process. Yeah. And, yeah, I hope that that gives some people, like, that little bit of hope that they'll be okay. Yeah, I agree. If they're struggling right now.

53:30Jessica May: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And our DMs are always open for you guys. as always we'd love you to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast and give us a follow as well so you don't miss an episode yeah and if you've got any feedback on this episode or like guests you'd like us to speak to drop us a DM on Instagram we're on at Made by Mummers and we'll be back on Friday

53:55this week on Help I Sexted My Boss pour a coffee on ice cream it's called Affigato and I think it's going to take the UK by storm. I think it has taken the UK by storm. I think about 20 years ago when it sort of was popular. Literally, his s*** shot out and splashed straight into my freshly lasered eye. Oh, for God's sake. You could have been eating a particularly girthy banana, for all they know. You don't eat a banana like that, Ben. I wouldn't know how you'd eat a willy, so I'm sorry. Listen and watch wherever you get your podcasts.