Katie Piper on Parenting with Honesty About Life’s Realities

0:02Zoe and Georgia will be here in just a moment with Made by Mamas. They've got the usual brilliant honest chat about those tricky parenting moments. And when you finish this episode, there's more of that with Danny Miller, Brooke Vincent and Wingman on their podcast, You Don't Know You're Born. They're using the skills they've picked up from starring on Emmerdale and Coronation Street to act out their parenting dilemmas. It's very funny and so relatable. Search for You Don't Know You're Born and get the show lined up to play next.

0:57and your FICO score updates right away. You could instantly raise your FICO score by an average of 14 points with Experian Boost. Download the Experian app for free today. Results will vary. Users who received a boost improved their FICO score eight from Experian by an average of 14 points. See App Store or Experian.com for details. Results will vary. Not all payments are Boost eligible. Users who received a boost improved their FICO score eight from Experian by an average of 14 points. Some may not see improved scores or approval odds. Not all lenders use Experian credit files. and not all lenders use scores impacted by Experian Boost.

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2:05Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week, we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts. and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands. And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review.

2:37You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Hello. Hello. That was a very gentle hello. I know, it's like a... Hello. Hello. No. It's like a bedtime story. I thought that I read my kids' bedtime stories like that to me. I was going to say, do you still read it? I still love reading my kids' bedtime stories. Yeah, I do. Yeah, we don't do it every night like we used to. No, me neither. No. But I don't know about you, but all these conversations we've been having recently have really made me think about all these things that are changing.

3:13Like we've spoken about it before, haven't we? Like when's the last time they want to sleep in your bed? when's the last time they want a bedtime story when's the last time they want to hold your hand walking to school oh stop it I can't bear it do you know what when everyone posts that on Instagram I do just want to say I just want to shut my phone down and just think I don't need I don't need I'm very acutely aware as my kids get older how quickly time is passing and I never want to miss a minute but this whole with the sad music and if I'm having a bad day I can be bloody crying before nine above in the morning.

3:43Yeah, we don't need sad music, but I think it's not even social media that's made me like that. I just think I'm becoming really aware of it. So when like the kid, normally the kids would be like, oh, can I stay in your bed tonight? I'd be like, no. Now I'm like, yes, of course. Stay every night if you want. It's fine. Jump in, both of you. Jump in. Oh, gosh. Actually, Jos is going, when we're recording this, we're recording this ahead of time, but Jos goes away for four nights this week. so I've got I've already set up a schedule sleep schedule for the kids yes they get one night one night one night one night and it is going to be heaven that I can't wait that's more for you though isn't it because you're scared of the dark no that's either that will be barricading the door yeah exactly and it's kit's birthday tomorrow so he's turning eight can you believe it no I can't do you remember when you brought him into the studio when he was probably like two weeks old or something.

4:40Oh, my God. I know. That's wild. So that's really nice. So we're going to do that. He's decided he wants to wait the whole day to do presents, which I thought was so cute. He was like, you get them all wrapped and ready and then I'll have the whole day being really excited to open them. Oh, that's cute. It's cute, isn't it? So we're going to do Pizza Express after school and then, yeah, presents. And is he having a party? Has he had a party? He's already had the party. That's all done. Cool. And was it all right? There was 30 kids there and we did it with two other, two other mums. his sons also have birthdays in and around the same time so it's brilliant and actually this was a really good present each parent chipped into this I don't know what it was like a not go henry but like this pay pay pot and each each of the kids got 80 quid each to spend whatever they wanted on that's really good do you know what I always see like other mums say oh they buy one each parent buys one present per year or something yeah and actually that is such a good idea and such a good hack like I think if you're starting school like if your kids are starting school be the one to start that now like where everyone pays I think it might be like five pounds per child per you know per yeah per child's birthday and then every child gets exactly the same amount like whether they have a party or not and like there's they're always going to get something they actually want I don't know I think that's a really good idea it's brilliant isn't it like when I tucked him up in bed he's like before he said um so how many presents am I getting And then on Tuesday, am I getting 30?

6:08And I was like, no, you're not getting 30 because there's 30 kids in your class. And I explained the process. And he was like, oh, great. So, you know, this is where they're coming from. It's ridiculous, isn't it? Yeah, but it is. It's such a good idea. Otherwise, you do end up with 30 presents, which is great for a child, but not so good when you've got it in your house. All the plastic tat though, thanks. Today's conversation is one that we cannot wait for you to hear. And actually, we've been desperate to get today's guest on for a really long time, haven't we? Yeah, we have. And actually, probably something we thought we would talk about was what happened to her when she was, I think, in her early 20s.

6:46But actually, the conversation took a big turn and we spoke about all sorts of things, you know, like keeping our kids safe and, you know, letting them go. And just I thought it was a really well-rounded chat about parenting that I probably didn't expect that we would have, which was great. yeah and I think you know she's for me possibly one of the most inspiring positive um that soul that she's got turning the situation that happened to her which was the most hideous thing to go through into you know somebody that people can look up to and somebody that that people can gain strength from and that's why I really like watching her and love listening to her um yeah she's one of my favorites actually and she's agreed to come to the baftas with me as a date that's happening now george don't be jealous but we're going together you'll see us on the red carpet and i'll be like we've actually started a new podcast what no i draw the line there not happening george here we talk to you today we're chatting to katie piper i am so so excited about today's conversation uh joining us on the podcast an incredibly inspiring woman whose strength and honesty and passion have impacted so many people in their lives.

7:58You'll know her as a best-selling author, presenter, podcaster and campaigner but today she's here with us to share her story but also to kind of shine a light on something really important as she has teamed up with Fruit Shoot and the RSBC supporting visually impaired people have better experiences in the supermarket. Please welcome the absolutely wonderful Katie Piper. love that intro that is so speciality intros are bang on um just before we get into a proper chat what have you been up to what's been going on this morning well i've just come off the back

8:31Katie Piper: of easter holidays um so i'm actually secretly glad for a little bit of normality and like a silent house now it was nice isn't it yeah we did like i think it was two and a half weeks we had off and we actually it was quite big for us our eldest daughter went away on her first school trip abroad. Yeah, so she went to Italy skiing and we don't ski as a family like at all. So it was a weird holiday of like having just one child and then we felt like we couldn't go away without her. So we waited for her to come back and then we took them away, another first for us, in a camper van. Oh gosh, how was that?

9:06Katie Piper: Two children, one dog, quite a gassy husband. Oh no! All in a VW camper van. What made you do it? Because I've done this as well. I think it was like wine. You know, in the air when you're drinking and you book things and then when you're sober, you're like, why did I get that? Yeah. Where did you go? It was good to be fair. We went to Swanage and the van was amazing. Like it was all modern and kitted out. We met this amazing woman called Liz who'd like converted the van and she gave us all like tips and advice of where to go. And Swanage, Dorset, beautiful. Beaches, long walks. We did the Jurassic Coast.

9:42Katie Piper: Oh, God. I mean, the kids were like 20 ,000 steps. and like moaning the whole way. Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah. But we had a good time. But we did like four nights, so it was a long time. That is quite a long time. So you have to, I mean, you sleep in there, you shower in there, you go to the loo in there. Oh, yeah. Did you have a shower? Because when I did the VW camper van, we did not have a shower in there. Oh, my God, you hated it. She always went around Scotland and she was furious the whole year. I'm quite skanky. I can't. I can not shower. like I'm good with that but then there was all of us and the dog so then we went to a campsite and we were like we need to shower but we're not pros so like everyone had sliders and wash bags dry ropes yes exactly no we didn't have all that so yeah it wasn't we need to be better equipped if we go again yeah that was us when you're sleeping with your head next to the oven you do question your life choices you do lay there like what are we trying to prove We could be in Barbados.

10:42We could be in a hotel.

10:44Katie Piper: No, but we've been to Barbados, right? And the kids were like, about the camper van, this is incredible, we love this. And they talk about it. They don't talk about Barbados anymore. Right, okay. So we've been wasting money. It's cool memories. Yeah. Because it's kind of good old-fashioned wholesome fun, isn't it? Yeah. And like maybe we're getting to the end of that with the eldest. So I'm like, we should do all these things while she doesn't think it's on call. Yeah. Yeah. Talk to us about this because we were briefly talking about the ages and stages of parenting. And you've kind of gone into that next stage, 12 year old daughter.

11:18Yeah. Talk to us about how that is.

11:21Katie Piper: It's so different for the mum versus the dad. Yes. Because when Belle went away for this ski trip, I was like crying, which, you know, I haven't cried since 98. You know, I'm not a crier like at all over anything. Worst things can happen and I never cry. and I was crying and Rich was like what's wrong with you and I was like this is gonna be our life when she meets a guy and moves out like look it's so empty and he was like cheers thanks a lot you're crying about the thought of spending time with me um and I was just like I just wasn't ready for this because I've been in that stage of parenting where they're always touching you needing you your diary goes last you know and you're spending the weekend stood at the sideline of all the hobbies and I was like god it's it's all those cliches um and she was fine had a great time and came back to us but yeah I think it's a big adjustment and there's so many books and topics and conversations about zero to ten yes but maybe not so much beyond that the mid the midpoint parenting we call it yeah it's funny and it's in a way it's a feeling of grief I feel that with my 12 year old that you know now I'm getting the whole I just don't like hugs yeah and then I I see her cuddling her dad or I see her and I'm like, no, you just don't like cuddling me.

12:37Yeah. And I sort of have to really trying to respect what her choices are at the moment. But I do feel a little bereft.

12:42Katie Piper: Yeah. And I do think it's almost like parenting yourself because I totally relate to that. And I think this isn't about you. Like if there's a void, then you should go and get that from somewhere else. Like you've had your time. Like this is her time to fly, you know, and I've had to constantly work really, really hard on that, you know, all the time. Yeah. Yeah, because it's not a natural instinct. Well, it's not for me to let go. Like, I've quite enjoyed this middle, you know, from six to nine that I'm in now. I've quite enjoyed it because it's like, you know, you're not wiping bums. You're not doing everything.

13:17My eight-year-old still makes me wipe her bums. Oh, I'm not doing that. Kit still shit himself constantly. Oh, God. Okay, well, I'm not doing that.

13:24Katie Piper: She's using the lube. I think she just enjoys not having to lift a finger. She's wiping it at school and we do it. do it? Well, I kind of like it. Is that really weird? Because I don't know if I don't have any more kids. It's the last, the last one. It's the last bum wife. Okay. Well, I'm not doing that anymore. And I'm quite enjoying the like, you know, little bit of freedom as in they make, they can make some food and they can do bits and bobs, but not having to let them out yet. And I think that's the bit that doesn't feel natural. Yeah. And I suppose it is natural if you look at the peer group, because that's what they're all doing.

13:58Katie Piper: And I think you can make your kids more vulnerable um by the sort of not letting them experience anything because then they they remain quite naive yes I suppose the reality is like we need them to be experienced and and I hate the word street wise but you kind of want them to be robust you know um but I don't claim to have all the answers because I'm just sort of like doing some bits wrong copying other people then some bits are going really well learning from the mistakes yeah yeah do you give her freedom to be outside with her friends and to go you know to shops and things like that yeah it's just yeah it's just starting uh so yesterday she wanted to go to like a shopping center um and I was like oh I don't feel like you should go on your own so I go and I hid in like a coffee shop and then they're like please don't leave the coffee shop was like walking around we don't want to like bump into you I was like okay heaven forbid um so I emptied all the dms because I sat there for like two hours doing like all my admin and then they just walked around constantly I think they went to like Nando's then went and got bubble tea then went to Primark to buy Stranger Things merch and then they came back to the Starbucks after like three hours and then I drove them home.

15:08Wow were you sitting there in disguise like a cap and a big moustache?

15:13Katie Piper: Yeah yeah no to be fair I wasn't I was all right because it's like the second or third time she's done it and I do think it's okay and I give her like this makes this sound so weird I do like role play with her at home things that might happen and this is beautiful yeah tell us what you do I don't start like beating her up at home just things like I say people could come up to her and ask her certain questions and get her to walk a direction with them away and then I do ridiculous things like in our shopping center there's a lush so I'm like if anything's really scary like go to run into lush because they're really ethical and then they're run by women and you can go in there and talk to a woman.

15:52Katie Piper: And she's like, what if we're far from lush? What about Nando's? I'm like, I think Nando's is okay. Nando's is okay, yeah. But that's interesting because I think they're the conversations you wouldn't immediately think to have. We were away skiing at Easter and we were on the way back from a restaurant walking back to the chalet and there was a drunk guy in the road. Now, to me, it was funny. You know, like he was harmless. A bit too much appraise. He was just like a bit all over the place. he was trying to get into a car thinking it was a taxi it was like it was loud my son was absolutely petrified and he was like get away come on just get away from him just get away and I was like I was like you know don't panic don't panic it's just your dad

16:38and I had to have that conversation of like do you know what if something like this does happen you're in a situation where you feel uncomfortable with someone something you can go look there's a hotel there look there's a shop there look there's a supermarket there you walk in and you speak to someone exactly and then it was but I'd never had that conversation before I think because you're

17:01Katie Piper: not at that stage yet right because I'm at that stage now I'm like okay all the previous stages were to keep them safe and protect them and I actually think now it's about equipping them with when things do go wrong like how will you cope how will you manage it how will you stand up for yourself in large groups and not kind of get persuaded to do what the majority are doing and I do think that's really really hard um and I do think sometimes it will go wrong but hopefully it goes wrong in the most safe place so that they can they can kind of deal with it we'll be right back after this short break

17:37Hi, it's Paige from Giggly Squad, and this episode is sponsored by Experian Boost. Summer glow up? Check. Credit glow up? Even better. Boost your credit scores instantly by getting credit for bills you're already paying. Your phone, utilities, rent, and insurance. I wish dating kind of worked like that. Connect your bank account, add those on-time payments to your Experian credit file, and your FICO score updates right away. You could instantly raise your FICO score by an average of 14 points with Experian Boost. Download the Experian app for free today. Results will vary. Users who received a boost improved their FICO score 8 from Experian by an average of 14 points.

18:16See App Store or Experian.com for details. Results will vary. Not all payments are Boost eligible. Users who received a boost improved their FICO score 8 from Experian by an average of 14 points. Some may not see improved scores or approval odds. Not all lenders use Experian credit files, and not all lenders use scores impacted by Experian Boost. See Experian.com for details.

18:58We've no advice there. You've nailed it. And anybody else listening, I think that's a great thing to do. Listen and watch wherever you get your podcasts.

19:09Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? You obviously experienced the most horrific, horrific attack. Do you feel, is there any part of you that is, I guess, maybe more protective of your daughters as a result of that? Does that come into your mind?

19:29Katie Piper: I don't think so because I think it was so extreme. You know, it's so unlikely to happen to anyone, you know, especially them and the way we live. So I definitely don't live in fear of like history repeating itself. I suppose it's probably more of the like complicated stuff around like dating and like exerting yourself, consent, like boundaries, which is the lovely next chapter we'll probably come to in a few more years. but I think we all as women um in this era are becoming more aware of of these problems like it's being talked about more on social media and dating is really different now to when we were younger so yeah I feel like if I talk to other school mums it's a shared shared fear like I don't feel isolated in those thoughts yeah that's that is really like that is interesting because it definitely does come up and it wouldn't have come up maybe for our parents they probably wouldn't have been having these conversations with their daughters and sons so much I mean I grew up in the middle of nowhere so there was literally nobody we would go you know that we'd have to get on our bikes or yeah same yeah get on the bus to go meet anybody and then yeah I think I don't know depending on where you live and stuff I think they just do it so differently now don't they yeah I said to Doz I was like there's no chance that I know you know we'll have anyone I don't want to you know break her confidence but I was I was wrong like yeah it's happening early I'm not sure at 12 were we kind of having boyfriends and stuff I don't know whether it's happening earlier well she goes to an all-girls school right so slim pickings there um but she does go to like high school discos where there's boys and you know I always encourage her to like chat to people and have lots of different friends she used to go to a mixed school so she stays in touch with some of the boys but yeah I don't think she would understand the concept of like actually dating um I think she I mean she enjoys sport and then she enjoys boys company and stuff like that But you still feel like it's Yeah I mean if she had a boyfriend It would be very innocent Yeah it would just be Yeah exactly Yeah same You know like for her birthday She went to the cinema Of one of her boy mates And we And I said do you want to sit We went for pizza first I was like do you want me to sit On the other table And she was like no no You dad and P You'll sit with me So she likes our company still And then we went to like arcades And she sort of walked around The arcade of her boy mate But yeah I mean I don't think I'll ever say What age you can and can't have a boyfriend because I think what happens happens and I want to keep communication open um but can we all live in a commune and you never leave anyone but as long as they live here yeah um have you spoken to your daughter I guess particularly your eldest about what happened to you it's a bit like if a kid was adopted and they always knew from birth right okay so there's no big like sit down or announcement because what happened to me is very visual you know they can see burns and scars on my face and body they can see I've lost my sight um so actually it was probably the reverse that when they started going to school my eldest came back and was like no one's burnt no one's mum it's no one's mum has any scars or anything so that was more like her normality um and it's just been and then also on top of that like my career you know in the house there's books there's framed posters about different programs I've done stuff like that and then they also have grown up volunteering at my charity so they've been away we at my charity we would do things called weekenders where we'd be in a hotel for like three days on like a burn camp helping people with burns and disfigurement so they've probably met an unusual amount of disabled people yeah so it's not really that shocking it's quite normal to them and then they asked those questions when they were young of um what happened to those people you work with and so they would know of all different just not just attacks but accidents that can happen so I think it's become their normal and also quite a boring story for them yeah you know if I try to push it onto them about what happened to me and worries about them they'd be like mom it's such a boring story so embarrassing your boring book never going to read it they're so brutal aren't they aren't they the most brutal little critics that you've ever met in your life everyone else is apart from your kids and also like connecting like why don't you work with sabrina carpenter like why can't you get tickets for sabrina well you know why don't you know olivia rodrigo yeah that it's just like not relevant to them and it's not interesting so how do you think that you or what was it that made you turn your story into something that didn't shrink away into the background?

24:04Because I imagine going through what you went through, how the hell do you come out the other side and be like, right, I'm not the person that's going to keep quiet here. I'm going to become the inspiration that I am. Do you remember what it was?

24:17Katie Piper: No, and I suppose it didn't happen like that. And I suppose when we look at all of our lives, particularly when we're self-employed and we're doing different things all the time, I don't think you genuinely sit there with a plan for life and say, I'm going to do all these things. um I mean the original sort of thought process was just that I'd had a lot of treatment in other countries and to bring that treatment to the UK so then formalizing that by setting up a charity and then I think my I was living with my mum and dad had gone back to live with them because I had no no home left no employment no money I was on benefits actually and then my mom's age were you I was 24 then so it's like 18 years ago it's a long time ago you know 2008 so I was doing the charity but that was voluntary right that wasn't like a way to make a living and then I knew I had to move out I had to rebuild a life and then I started to write my story and you know I didn't have any kind of I mean Instagram didn't exist no it's like Twitter was Twitter and Twitter was like um I'm going to have a sandwich today there wasn't any like what it is now it's quite a nice place yeah it was wasn't it yeah I used to sit there and document what I was watching on the yeah I'm really really enjoying this lol yeah but people would reply yeah yeah yeah oh I'm loving it too yeah lol um so yeah and and I I started to write my story and I had no profile at all no social media I wasn't famous in any way so I also would send that story off to publishers and constantly be rejected um and then it was one person said oh we're going to publish this story.

25:54Katie Piper: And it wasn't like a good financial deal or anything, but it was a story that went to like number one in Sunday Times bestseller list. And then it kind of went global. And I suppose that opened up my life to then be able to do other things, create platforms. And then it can sort of continued from there. And, you know, I started as a contributor, as a news story, as I suppose as a victim really and then I was able to sort of reclaim that and present and choose who I was going to work with and then and then turn it into a commercial thing and leave that part of my life behind yes you know get some closure um get my own sort of ending in in a sense I suppose that that was why it was empowering because I wrote that ending myself you know so it's so empowering I mean I every time I see you I I'm so blown away by you because I know that's pressure for me to be good no you are but not good just just just an incredible human who kind of hasn't sat back and gone well I will always be that victim and yeah and that is the difference I think maybe I think you know and undoubtedly there's always things out of our control in all of our lives whether they're written on our faces visual or completely invisible and I think you have to accept that and move forward and then put all your energies into what you can do like so many of us wait for opportunity or an apology or the permission to do something.

27:20Katie Piper: And maybe that was more accurate in like the 80s, 90s when we grew up. Like if we wanted a job, we had to wait for someone to give it to us, right? If we wanted to do something or feel something, we had to wait for validation, usually from a guy actually. And I just don't think we live like that now. Like if you or I had an idea we could execute that tomorrow if we want to using AI using our platforms you know if we want to validate like we can validate ourselves right like it's a very amazing time to be alive really to be able to you know say that we can do those things and I think you know on paper I was disabled I was single I didn't have any money and that's quite bleak for a woman even 18 years ago when that happened to me but but further back that is very bleak is it bleak now not necessarily I I think things have changed.

28:11That's really interesting. And actually rebuilding now is probably something that people are more open to sharing. You know, like we hear about people, you know, reaching rock bottom and building themselves back up again through social media, through storytelling. Whereas, you know, 18 years ago, you didn't hear that so much. And that is really inspiring. And I think it probably makes people feel more secure in like their lives.

28:38Katie Piper: I think people share a bit more yeah yeah I think people are more transparent I mean still there's a culture to only share it once it's successful like sometimes yeah I can be guilty of that too but I do think people are sharing more and I think it's a positive thing I mean it's funny when you talk about tech in terms of like women business parenting children like some people really fear AI fear tech well if you look at one of the worst like debilitating injuries that I was left with it would be the loss of my eyesight right talk to us about that so first of all I was blinded in both eyes um and I I had a lot of irrigation like steroid treatment stem cells and I you know I lost my left eye but I have like 75 % sight in my right so all those years ago that's very like black and white that's very permanent and I think you know the permanency of injuries and the quality of life the effects can be the hardest thing to live with and I was single at that time I had no children um so it meant different things to me at that time I mean it meant things like my mum used to help me choose all my outfits um which I had like velcro trainers and things like that because I was like that'll be quicker yeah yeah yeah okay and like pokers or track suits and all kinds of weird things um and then I got this like mole light and was like no maybe now I'll be able to see in the wardrobe a bit better like feel fabrics and then things progress treatment gets better and tech tech progresses right then I become a mom and I'm like oh when you're a mom you're like the ears the eyes and the mouthpiece for your children so and I'm like I don't want other people like parenting my kids because I have stuff that holds me back right and I've always like said I will never be held back by what happened to me and I mean this in practical terms as well so then you have things like NaviLens that comes out right have you ever heard of NaviLens?

30:27Katie Piper: No. Okay so I bet you've seen it loads because it's now it's not new you probably would have seen it in like museums maybe on train station platforms because it's like an it's like an audio tool which you know you go in the museum you have your little audio guide so it's colorful and it looks like a QR code and for the very first time it is now on children's drinks it's on fruit shoot right so they they are the leader in this no one else has done this in this space on children's drinks and for someone like me um and i don't know is supermarket shopping stressful for you do you do supermarkets yeah yeah of course i do online do online no i like going to the supermarket i like it i just don't get enough time like time to enjoy it yeah so i don't mind a bit of online but i hate a substitute oh god i got substituted last night they sent shredded wheat and i wanted shreddies yeah it's so nice two totally different cereals well I do things like ask for tomatoes and then get ketchup yeah yeah yeah yeah that is yeah or some tomato printed napkins that's the sort of thing that I end up with so I've got two in-person experiences of shopping in store the first one is the most common one uh before or after a job rushing in doing everything really really quickly um and that's like stressful I forget stuff and it'll be the day that someone be like oh I read your book and like my cats just died and then I'm like oh my god I have to talk to this person yeah be nice um so that's really hard and then obviously with my vision it's like the seasonal aisle they change it constantly they move stuff around I can't read the big sign then I get to the the other aisle and it's like short-sighted and long-sighted and everything's out of focus and I'm also like stressed and I haven't got any time so that's difficult and then the other experience is going with my kids and the youngest is like can I get that can I get that can I get this and then my eldest is like can we look at these nine concealers and try them all on my jawline because all supermarkets have makeup and everything yeah and it's like so annoying uh and I end up buying loads of stuff stopping at everything so either way both both visits are stressful right and then if you put on top of that of being visually impaired it's just a complete nightmare so when I heard about this initiative I was like wow this is empowering me but it could also empower neurodivergent parents and children um it could empower other children who have a visual impairment but also just like stressed mums that want to turn all their packaging into a voice note so tell us exactly how it works so you scan the qr code yeah so i'll get my and i'll have my airpods in and i'll get my phone out like that and then it will turn everything you see on that packaging into audio and it will say into my ears to your left is blackcurrant fruit shoot no added sugars uh how many 250 mils and then i'll be able to walk over to it get it then if i want to like look at the small print while i'm there i can be close up or far away and i'll pick it all up for me um and then when i get home and unpack it all and i need to navigate that in like the cupboards wherever it will say to your right in your kitchen is fruit shoot you know that's wild And get it up on the screen, close as well.

33:41Katie Piper: Wow. It's just like having an assistant. It's a husband. It's a husband. It's a husband who doesn't talk back. My husband's not that useful. But also, I suppose why I feel that this campaign is so hopeful is it's not othering you. It's not like, it doesn't make me feel less able. You know, it doesn't make me feel more disabled, if that's the right terminology. And it's not just me. like you could both use this and it's free and I don't have to buy some clunky equipment I've already got it on you know it's on my phone so it's not like buying some kind of aid that no one else has so yeah and also I imagine thinking about it now being in a supermarket as somebody you know who's got who's visually impaired you know there'd be shopping trolleys left around everyone's you know all of these things you don't really think about but actually that whole experience you want to be able to be out there doing it for yourself but then there's all these obstacles in the way yeah which don't need to be and also when you think like a big brand doing it well maybe other people will follow that's usually what happens yeah and it's a bit of a no-brainer of like could we not just have this everywhere everywhere anyway yeah yeah if the technology's there and it's easy and everyone can get to it yeah because lots of people for whatever reason later in life I mean we see those people in the supermarket that are doing like this and it's like eventually we'll all become not to be depressing visually impaired my good eyes always like that already because I'm 40 you know it's like it's just a thing that kind of happens so let's just make life easier we'll be right back after this short break

35:15hi it's Paige from Giggly Squad and this episode is sponsored by Experian Boost summer glow up check credit glow up even better boost your credit scores instantly by getting credit for bills you're already paying your phone utilities rent and insurance I wish dating kind of worked like that. Connect your bank account, add those on-time payments to your Experian credit file, and your FICO score updates right away. You could instantly raise your FICO score by an average of 14 points with Experian Boost. Download the Experian app for free today. Results will vary. Users who received a boost improved their FICO score 8 from Experian by an average of 14 points.

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36:53The only picture I can find what I want to show to Ollie, my barber, is this AI version of Pep Guardiola. And he's like, stop sending me that. And I'm like, I want my hair like that. He's like, is Pep Guardiola AI? Ellie, I think that's very enterprising. We've no advice there. You've nailed it. And anybody else listening, I think that's a great thing to do. Listen and watch wherever you get your podcasts.

37:17Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? Your resilience around things. Do you have to kind of think about what the future looks like for you and think about, you know, obviously your eyes have been massively impacted by what happened to you. But in the future, will the other eye be OK? Will there be any deterioration around that? Do they give you an insight into that?

37:42Katie Piper: Yeah, I suppose I feel optimistic about tech, you know, like what AI is doing and what that means in surgery and what's happening with donors and cloning and all these, you know, all these kind of things. Like I find that fascinating. I know the fragility of life, right? So I am the opposite where I'm just like living life all the time. I'm working hard. I'm doing like I'm trying to live like fearlessly because I suppose we could all look at different genes in our family and different ways people have passed away in different generations and say, oh, that could happen to me. And anything could happen to any of us at any time.

38:21Katie Piper: So I think we should all live with that ethos of sort of, you know, enjoying it. Such a good point, Katie, isn't it? Yeah. Did you have that mindset before? Well, I mean, it's a funny one, isn't it? Because I was 24. Yeah. I was so young. And I suppose if you'd have seen her, the fact that she was drinking Monday to Thursday, yeah, she did have that. She wasn't preparing for the future and did not have a pension. No, no. Oh, my God, a pension. I don't still have a bloody pension. I've got to get it sorted. I know you don't have a pension. You're giving me anxiety. I know. I know. I'm giving myself daily anxiety.

38:56Katie Piper: Yeah. See, I'm very boring about stuff like that. Like, I'm very organized. I do all those things. Have you got a pension? Yeah. Has everyone in this room got a pension? Yes, sorry. do you want me to give you half a mile everybody is nodding when should i start oh god i mean i started a pension this is so sad oh and so not sexy i started a pension i was 25 did you yeah but maybe because of it made me think about the future yeah yeah so it's a contradiction because also i'm living like not worrying about the future but then i'm i'm sort of like i suppose it goes back to that controlling the bits i can't control yeah that's controlling the controllables yeah and And then not being worried about the things you can't control.

39:34Katie Piper: Which can be a bit of a placebo because ultimately you can't really control anything. But I think just putting measures in place sort of gives me less anxiety, I think. Yeah. Are you like that as a parent in general? Like, are you quite, you know, it's hard, isn't it? Because I don't want to say laid back because that's not laid back. But it's like you've got perspective. Yeah. I don't know how I'd describe myself as a mom because, like, you know, I set up ISAs for the kids. I try and explain to them about money, finances. I pay them and fine them monthly fine them? you take money out of their account what do they get fined for?

40:11Katie Piper: actually there was a fine this morning actually because it's only 50p but it all matters because my daughter's like form captain so she has to print out like word searches for the whole of the class to do in like form at like 8 before everyone gets in at half 8 and just as we're about to get in the car she's like haven't printed out the word searches can you print them mum and I was like 50p fine like you should have said that to me at 7 a.m or last night so you're not organized person and you need to be an organized person to be successful so you're being fined so that kind of makes her realize you know because in the working world she'd lose the job being arseholes like genuinely kit was kit told me last night that he hated me and he didn't want me to be his mum because i said he couldn't have a second ice cream so i took five pounds oh you are oh That's a lot.

40:58Okay. That's a big fine. He's saving up for something and I know that hopefully that will teach him that he can't be that rude to me and say such nasty things. So I'm like, no, no, no, there's a big fine and he'll get it back in. If he does good behavior this week, then he'll get that top back in. Oh, I see. So I can take, I've just basically removed it. He can appeal the fine. He can appeal the fine. So I don't return. I don't return. You never return the fine.

41:17Katie Piper: So mine are on like minimum wage. So they're on 10 pound a month. 10 pounds a month. Yeah. Okay, great. 10 pound a month. And then they get like spot fines of like 50 pence if it's serious a pound. yeah actually i am useless with this stuff i don't give my kids pocket money i if they get any money for their birthdays like i'll steal it yeah steal it because i need cash for something yeah and they have no concept of money at all i really can't do that yeah i said to me the other day you know you owe me 400 pounds well i bought your playstation so actually you owe me now i do I do buy my kids stuff, but I refuse to buy like Trend Live.

41:59Katie Piper: I'm not buying La Boo Boo's. They can buy their own La Boo Boo's, right? My daughter wants to stick on nails that just ping off. You can buy those yourself. And I probably wouldn't be doing it for the eight-year-old if I didn't have a 12-year-old, but I have to do the same thing for both of them. Right, okay. And like walking around the town having a bubble tea, I was like, you can buy your own bubble tea. We're very aligned on that, Katie. I'm exactly the same. There's certain bits of tat. I have to tell Luna, I have to say to her, you go to savers do not buy any more of x y and z because her whole look love a savers haul though but it looks like savers in her bedroom yeah if you want to buy any of that that's on you that's not me yeah that's the same yeah bell's constantly buying like different skincare and yeah yeah and we had to have that conversation actually because she would ask me about certain skincare and i'd be like that's 80 quid for a moisturizer i don't even have that skincare so you can save up for eight and a half months to buy that.

42:51Katie Piper: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or you can look at these other ranges that do the same thing. And, like, that's helped her understand the value of money because it's very hard to make children understand the value of money in a tapping society, you know, because we learned it through seeing cash. Yes. And they just don't have that. Yeah, no, my kids have a card, so they're tapping themselves. You've spoken so openly about, you know, sort of body consciousness and self-image and how you feel about yourself. How do those conversations show up at home with your kids? I suppose I have to be really conscious not to ever say anything bad about myself.

43:24Katie Piper: I have to tell my husband that as well, because I do think you pick up on everything your mum says about herself. Yeah, true. And I do think they are aware of their own bodies, aware of, we live in quite a white area and they're mixed race. So they're aware of that. They're aware of their hair. So I've had to do lots of things. I've gone to lots of black salons and had like tutorials and lessons on how to do their hair. And then I have to do it quite regularly to stay like abreast of like the products and things like that and show them that their hair is enjoyable. It's not a chore, but it's very different to mine, you know.

44:01Katie Piper: So I think you have to sort of invest in those things. and when you're talking and I'd also like be real that what value does society place on bigger bodies smaller bodies symmetrical faces disfigured faces so also have like honest conversations that are helpful because I think kind of shutting them down about like thoughts and feelings kind of like it sort of stops the conversation and then if they go out as adults and be like oh whatever think mum told us wasn't true that's such a good point yeah where do we go from there um and like being honest about my own like battles with my body you know and like how I feel about how I look and the things that I can and cannot change and how to deal with them safely and health healthily yeah and that's so important that side of it and actually I think sometimes we don't even hear what we're saying out loud we have to be so conscious around it yeah you know this conversation for me about the postpartum hair loss and yeah you know because I wear extensions and the kids were asking me oh you know like where do you wear extensions mommy and I was like oh well I lost so much hair after I had kit and I'm sort of saying it not realizing that my son was then thinking that he made me lose my hair oh and I had this really beautiful conversation with him when I was tucking him in and he was just like mommy is it my fault that your hair fell out wow that's powerful isn't isn't it powerful and then we went through that and now he understands but yeah even just down to that I guess it's you know we're not robots we can't help what we say in the moment and that's what I was thinking in my mind well it's postpartum hair loss but he doesn't get that yeah so and not apologizing for wanting to feel and look good and I saw something that changed how I talked about my job to my kids I think it was like just a clip online where a woman was saying you shouldn't be like telling your kids oh I've got to go to work I prefer you over my job but I have to go I don't like my job because it's sort of like uh teaching them the wrong message you know about employment and actually employment um can be something we can be really proud of you know and and actually it can be really rewarding and we're contributing to the economy so I I did used to talk about it in that way and that that changed that for me where I was saying to my daughter you can find a job that you really love and it can be a really big part of who you are and that's what I found you know I'm not sorry for going to work and I'm not choosing one over the other I actually like them both yeah and I like being your mum and I really like working yeah and also I think sometimes it's important to be like you know waking up on a Monday morning or Tuesday morning whatever and you don't feel like it today but it doesn't mean you don't like it yes so you have to push through because that's like with school sometimes they're like oh I don't want to go to school today I really can't be bothered and I'm like it's part of me like I think do you know what some days I feel like that and I want to say to them do you know what don't worry like I get it you don't feel like it today and you want you know you need a minute but the other part of me is like no because we even the things we enjoy the most we don't fill up for all the time you have to push through and you know building resilience yeah it totally goes back to resilience because I feel like we live in a society now that's so disposable right like someone gave you the ick you don't like the jumper they wore to the date just swipe delete block get someone new right and I feel like the same like your job's hard you're not getting the promotion you're not making enough money quit it build something online do a course yeah you know make to set up an e-commerce thing and it's like but what message are you telling people you're telling them that every pathway they take must really serve them it must feel good it must feel instantly rewarding yeah you know dopamine dopamine dopamine right so then like you create these people that like never have this agonizing climb to the summit they never get to see the view of the summit and they never endure so they never suffer like suffering builds great character right and you're just like if you're never enduring anything you never find out what you love you never find out what you're good at you never find out your character and your traits and you never really become like resilient and robust and resilience is related to confidence so you never become confident right you just become propped up by all this surface stuff, right?

48:08Katie Piper: And then who are you if it gets taken away? Yeah. And who are you when things get really hard? Yeah, we've gone really deep, haven't we? No, no, no. I love this side of it, but also like pain, like physical pain. Yeah. I don't think my kids, I take Isla out of this because she's had some operations and she's been through that, but the little two, you know, Luna had to have a local anesthetic in her foot. Oh, that's hard. Hard for you, so. Oh my God. But she lost it. The screaming. Because of the pain. and I and like I just thought I get it you go through the experience and that's how you that's how you grow but yeah there's she doesn't want any pain she doesn't like you know no pain at all and I'm like you're gonna have to go through this yeah and we were a different era like we we grew up in the pub having crisps and like nine hours on a Sunday yeah yeah you know you know but yeah it is different I say it's hard isn't it because we take on this message of parenting that we should protect at all costs but I feel like that's not necessarily true and that's unfair because we won't be able to do that either and if we don't we haven't failed them um but yeah a little bit of endurance and sticking at it and like it's so unattractive isn't it like kind of plodding on a bit like yeah or sometimes you've got to do something that you don't like to get to the bit that you do or like you have got something that you like but you there's this tiny bit of it you don't like we have to do that bit yeah just that because I've tried with my son particular in particular he's like I love maths and I love PE and I don't want to do the other bits and I'm like cool well for this job in sport you would also need to do this bit you don't like and you'll have to do that bit every day yeah to do the good bit and it's like trying to explain that to them yeah and also all the stuff we don't want to do it's like the cliche isn't it but it's stuff we should probably be doing because otherwise we just sit in that place of like well I'm good at this so I'll keep doing this and then you're like well that just becomes like very mediocre of you you know like if it's painful if it's embarrassing if it makes the thought of it fills you with dread then you should do it and then you'll probably then move on to the next thing and it will all become natural you know it's how we grow as people yeah and sometimes when they're really pissing me off I like to just fuck them up by saying you've got another 10 years school because we drop it in there when they're least expecting it and guess what when we were young we could leave at 16 and you can't oh my god the realization that they have to go every day as well my son's just getting his head around it and he's like what every day i'm like every day dude katie on the podcast we like to ask our guests for the best piece of advice that they would pass on to another parent oh gosh okay so what is it my advice or advice someone gave me either yeah yeah um I think it's probably the era I'm at now is it's all about like the communication right so and like you know I know I talked about the finding system but like she she wanted to get this app right and and I was like okay I can't use the app as a tool of like if things go wrong on this app then I'll take it away from you because then you make a secretive child yeah I'm like well if I tell them that I was doing this then the punishment is I lose the app right whereas if I I sort of had that communication I can say okay things have gone wrong here but let me tell you why they went wrong and like this is how you can do it again so I think don't always look for like the punishment and the reward system like try and look for like how can I keep my kids um confining in me for as long as possible because I think when we stop confining in a trusted person it is when it can all go wrong that's yeah that's really interesting and products what products do you love we love to hear about new things things we might want to add to our shopping baskets um well of course i'm going to be championing fruit shoot because they're the leader and i really hope that actually that will change and i'll be able to champion way more other products that will be using the navi lens technology um i would champion anything that helps me multitask i got a walking pad recently oh yeah yeah really good folds up and i can do all my steps like i always wear a garment so another great product for me because i track like my periods track my cycle yeah um i track my body battery hydration caffeine realize i can't drink four cups of coffee without vomiting yeah without the heart but it goes you need to sit down so i'm a real like data tracking person a real multitask uh person um what else would i champion i love eggs so i will champion all brands of eggs.

52:36Katie Piper: Oh yeah, Berford Browns. Me too, Berford Browns. Berford Browns. Any eggs, fine. I just like the versatility of like, you know, scrambled, omelette, poached. You're talking to the right people. You are literally talking on language. She has two eggs every day. Oh, do you? Oh, at least. Okay. Yeah, I think I have done since I could eat. So work days, I will boil a few, put them in the fridge, keep the shell on and then just throw them loose with the shell on in my handbag and then throughout the day eat them if it's a back-to-back day with no lunch break. Where do you put the shells? Just throw them at the window in the taxi.

53:06Katie Piper: It's the real hardcore questions. Where are you putting those shells? We should work with the Egg Society. We should. Is there Egg Society? No, but there is now. I think there is a line stamp. Isn't there? Maybe we can work with them. And in terms of like beauty products or fashion brands or anything, is there anyone that you're loving, anything that you're using? So beauty products, like I've definitely come into this era of like, I probably don't wear as much makeup as when I was younger. and I kind of love that and I love like a multi-stick that goes on like cheeks, nose, lids, lips, everything like that.

53:40Katie Piper: And actually on my non-work days, I probably don't wear a lot of makeup. Like I like a lash, like an Ardell strip lash. Can't do the individual ones, like can't see, it goes wrong and I just get angry. They end up sticking on your nose. Skincare, I am very much about like no fragrance, no alcohol, flamaldehyde, like everything needs to be like a zero on the skincare so I'm very faithful I use La Roche Posay it's a French brand yeah and also it's a bit of a like they have like a really multi-purpose cream called Cicablast I love it yeah so like face body topical irritations and then my kids have eczema so I'll use it on them as well because the whole family has eczema I take my skincare into my laundry care so I use Circare which has no enzymes dyes fragrances as well so it's always like a weird thing for me that you know I'm I'm like this about like food drink skin laundry everything I wouldn't just do it in one area because then it contradicts everything else you know um so yeah and shopping and clothes like I'm not really designer person I'm more high street yeah we love the high street yeah yeah and I love all the predictable things of like Zara Mango love going on Assos find it a bit overwhelming have to set my filters page after page yeah I'm even buying clothes on Amazon now Oh, I'm buying like basics.

54:59Katie Piper: Yeah, vest tops and like dupes of other high-end brands. Skim dupes. Skim dupes? Yeah, on Amazon. What would Kim K say? I know. We don't care. We don't care. She doesn't know. She doesn't know, it won't hurt her. That's such a toxic, great, isn't it? Can you give me the links to those? Because I'm keen on those. I'm always guilty of like gym clothes when I'm not going to the gym. Oh, yeah. So buying a lot of gym clothes. Yeah. Active wear every day. Active wear every day, yeah. Where can people find out about the campaign? you can go to the Freak Shoot website I also put a lot on my social as well and also the charities website has got loads of other links signposting and helpful stuff for people that are visually impaired we'll pop them in the show notes Katie thank you so much for coming on it's gone so great thank you so much I love you 45 minutes coffee with friends it's really a joy thank you so much for coming on Katie everyone yay Katie Piper's got an OBE but I feel like she should get more awards yeah me too Such an all-round legend.

55:59I really, really loved her take on the role play thing and looking at safe spaces, like going to Lush or going to Nando's or teaching her kids that if they ever feel unsafe, that's where they go into. Yeah, definitely. And I loved how she's talking about letting go and secretly hiding in coffee shops. I feel like we can all relate to that. We all really want our kids to have independence, but then really we're sat peering around the corner checking that they're okay. But I love having these chats because it's something that we're all navigating or will be at some point. so yeah I actually had very funny images in my head of her kind of hiding out with like a chai tea latte with a baseball cap and some dark shades if you like and a sort of fake beard or something I was like incognito that's what I'm going to be doing anyway oh my god I will be but I'll be more doing it for the gossip you know like that's what I want I mean I'm not like I don't care if they're safe I do care if they're safe but I just don't get anything from Axel but I feel like girls do tell you stuff.

57:09So I just want to know like the gossip. That's what I'm there for. Yeah, well, don't worry. We can do it together. Base ourselves in a spa. Let's bug them. And then get the gossip afterwards. All right. Thank you so much for listening to today's podcast. Thank you so much to Katie Piper. As always, we'd love you to rate, review, subscribe and please give the podcast a follow. Yeah, and if you've got any feedback on this episode or guests you'd like to hear from, drop us a DM on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mamas and we'll be back on Friday.

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59:38A lot of nostalgia in there. It's rather gorgeous. It's every Monday and Wednesday. Come join the phone. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.