Keeping Zoe Accountable

0:02Zoe and Georgia will be here in just a moment. Now, if you're in the thick of the school holidays and secretly counting down the days until September, why not escape from the kids for a little bit longer by getting another brilliant podcast lined up to play after this? On Secret Mum Club, Safina and Emma are chatting wholesome family holidays and asking the very important question, is traveling with kids actually worth the stress oh and one of Safina's kids has officially entered his free willy era so there's that search for secret mom club and get the latest episode lined up to play next summer's supposed to be the easy season so why are so many people quietly googling a therapist between summer fridays because more daylight doesn't fix the hard stuff sometimes it just turns the volume up.

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1:38Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Standard size rugs shouldn't be the standard. Get a custom sized rug that actually fits with Ernesta. In as little as two weeks, Ernesta cuts, finishes, and delivers your rug straight to your door. No more awkward sizing, just a designer quality rug made to work within your space perfectly the first time. Visit Ernesta.com to explore Ernesta's full range of custom-sized rugs and get$50 towards any style when you order five samples for only$10. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits with five kids between g and i we have seen a lot we really have each week we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way in short we're the parenting podcast for you before we get started hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands and they're on tuesdays and fridays and it really helps if you leave a rating and a review you can also find us on instagram we're on at made by mummies but for now george should we get into it we're back together again we are we thought we've been ages but it's actually been actually it's been two weeks yeah i think it's probably like a month you went away for a week yeah and then i went away for six days yeah so but i actually don't think we've physically seen each other for for a month wow how are you your tan is looking real so is yours thanks very much Fabulous.

3:11We're feeling very summery today. Georgia came wafting in in her linen. Linen. Can we just sew in her shorts? Take a moment for your holiday outfits. My holiday? Okay. Georgia looked like a proper grown-up. As in, every time I saw your outfits, I was like, you know, like a real grown-up? Like linen tops, wafting linen trousers. You look beautiful. Thank you. How was it? Really nice. So, like, honestly, so lovely. I feel like I should be, like, PR-ing Hillside at this point. because everyone I speak to comes up to me like oh my god your holiday looks so nice I've emailed them to see if I can go and I'm like oh no kind of everyone coming no it was it was amazing it was just do you know what we haven't been on holiday just the four of us yeah for almost I can't even remember the last time last you know last year we had like the Florida trip with 17 of James's family we had a wedding in Cyprus with my family Portugal with my family skiing with James it's like we had all of our trips have been with other people and it was really really nice you have to be so careful who you go away on holiday with now I've decided because holiday fine if you make friends around the pool because you can ditch them go back to your room or like yeah make new holiday friends but if you're actually on holiday with people and it doesn't work out it can ruin the whole trip yeah I actually think it's really difficult to do that but you like obviously you've just been in a villa was it just the four of you five so isle of k which is brilliant although having a teenager on holiday with you is absolutely hilarious really they do not give a shit about anything like you're like it's like having do you remember kevin and perry yeah it's like the grunting and the eye rolling she got i mean bless her and i was quite jealous of this every day one o 'clock in the afternoon she sort of just strolled out all right all right grunting and i'm like wow and you know she's a girl as well so yeah you would have a preconceived idea about the fact that might be a teenage boy no no and they're just constantly a bit pissed off constantly pissed off with their younger brother and sister and just a bit like yeah whatever so really now is the time to be spending money on nice holidays with the kids and then between when they're like 13 to 16 let's not take them away or just make sure when you take them away they've got their own room with dark shutters because the majority of the time they just leave do you know so funny you're saying that because i must have some sort of algorithm because i'm on like a local mum's facebook group you know like one of it's like brentwood mums or something grown up and it's like comes up with you know this holiday camp is on or whatever it is but recently when i look on there i'm like it's just people moaning about taking their teenagers on holiday and they're like i'm so cross we've paid so much money for this holiday and all they're doing is sitting on their phone and sitting in the room I feel like just sending them home and now you're coming in and saying this I'm like wow okay that's really is what happened but you know what I've realized and has been such a big learning sort of whole experience for me is that actually I don't think that they're pissed off I think that this is just what chemically happens to their brain because we had some please don't get me wrong we had some amazing moments with her yeah and to be fair the little two were also it was it's like having like I've said before a couple of little asbos in the house where those two just fight and bicker so they've already got they've obviously got their own stuff going on but you know I don't think it's because she was having a shit time I think it's just what a teenager looks like now yeah do you know yeah yeah no I think that's how teenagers have always been probably but were you that were we used to go to Portugal and I had like a group of friends there.

6:58And so as soon as we'd get on holiday, my mum and dad said, like, we just wouldn't see you. Like, we just wouldn't see you at all. And I remember them saying things like, please just come for dinner with us tonight. Like, let's just have a family dinner. And I'd be like, yeah, okay, I've got an hour. You know, like, and I was probably a bit, I just, I wasn't rude to them. I just didn't spend any time with them. Correct. I think that's the way it was. And in a dream world, we would have had one of Isla's mates. And we did ask. we said but it all happened too late so and actually I felt sorry for her in parts because the little two had friends and there was obviously you know it that is a bit difficult but I just thought it was really funny the sort of like oh we're going on a boat and you're like oh my god it's a really nice boat yeah it'll be lovely aren't we lucky I kept saying to her are you having a nice time yeah like oh okay but really are you do you know what I mean Do you know what, though?

7:55Like, we're getting glimpses of that with Axel. Like, when we were away, he didn't eat lunch with us. He had, like, gave us 30 minutes at dinner. What was he doing? Max. Like, he made friends. They were having lunch together. It was quite funny, like, seeing eight boys on a table together ordering sea bass. Oh, my God. So, literally, yeah, no, literally every day he'd order a whole sea bass and steak. And I just walked past, like, cracking up. Wow. He's like Boss Baby. Yeah. That's his character. that is him but he would give us yeah like really small like windows of time and now at home I'm starting to see like is this where we're going now and also like they come back in like he'd he went out on Saturday his friend's parents picked him up at like 10 past eight and he got home at like 9 p.m they went to F1 Arcade they went you know somewhere else somewhere else in London came home and he came in and he was just so rude to us and it's so hard not to be like you absolute prick like what like you've had a lovely day yeah why you know but it's because of like they're overtired their hormones they don't really know how to like say they're tired and they just want to go to bed or they don't know how to say I've had enough I need to go into my room without being rude are we raising entitled spoiled privileged yeah children and that's something that you know that that's like a that's the deepest darkest fear and the first thing that comes up is no but then sometimes you want to see some of their behaviors i think come on guys yes you know like i and i'm so hot on it i don't know about you there's fine to be tired but i'm not gonna have this you know kit's got into this phase at the moment of being like you idiot you know I think I've spoken about this before and I think like firstly how rude yeah secondly on what planet do you think it's okay to speak to your parents parent because he would never say it to doors like that and I think there's just this I mean doors were chatting yesterday about just pulling everything back as in you know there's an expectation of um oh yeah oh can I get my nails done you know without a please and then we go yeah that's what your pocket money is for right if you want to go out and spend x y z it's not 10 quid here 10 quid there 10 quid there you know like we we don't overly spoil them with things but there's still an expectation that the wallet will always be open and i don't want them to be raised like that i want them to be considerate and i want them to work hard i mean josh has got this thing that he's like oh when they're 18 you know we'll try and give them some money towards a flat and i'm like absolutely not they have to go and rent some shithole that i did and because they have to graft for it and they to get jobs and stuff but I don't know what your thoughts are on that I don't know yeah I feel like I know I totally get where you're coming from for me it is more like the rudeness like I'm not bothered about like spoiling them but you know like making their life easy like I'm happy to make their life easy if I have to like I don't know I don't know I just am I'm happy to do that in terms of what though like as in I don't if I don't know Axel needs new football boots I'm not gonna be like oh you've got to wait till your birthday i because i just think well he needs them and i can give them to him so i will like that's okay i definitely get the not like not getting stuff all the time but i just it's the like i just want them to appreciate it okay that's what ultimately it's not about what i give them it's just how they respond yes and do you pull them up on it of course oh my god yeah yeah okay yeah totally and but then the other part of it which is separate to this completely is i get sick of telling them off oh my god and then i read things like if you want your children to want to spend time with you when you're older don't tell them off over every single spill and then i'm like oh what but do you find that like i sometimes i find I'm just like telling them off about everything and then I'm like god I'm even boring myself I just uh I think we've entered a phase of Luna and Kit just cannot stand each other yeah and that breaks my heart to say it out loud because they've always found kind of common ground and to be honest it is sibling dynamics yeah you know I think it moves when you know Isla comes to us and isla doesn't come to us and so that side of it is hard but you know anybody that's got you know two younger siblings that are quite close in age yeah very competitive with one another that's what i find exhausting and the more you're like luna stop kit stop you know i spend my entire day just saying please guys can you stop i hate it same i hate it and also georgia like wanted to speak to you about this on what in what other area of your life is there fighting and bickering and screaming and shouting on that level i know i know no i'm i'm so with you like we were driving home last night from my cousin's house it's like half nine called no i think it was later it was half 10 at night but we've had a lovely day like they actually haven't argued all day it's been great and then in the car on the way home they just have to start prodding each other you know when you're like just don't like yeah i don't want to say to you just don't do it i'm not sure what else i mean he's doing this and I always tell Axel off because he's the older one and I know it's coming out of my mouth and I know it's not fair do you know what I mean and then I'm like oh god why am I doing I always blame him and I think and he's like why do you like Gigi better than me and that all comes out and I'm like I don't I just have higher expectations of you yeah right because he's the eldest yeah but that's also unfair in itself as well isn't it it's so unfair we had a really beautiful family meeting actually the other day which we don't normally do and we basically just set it out and said we're all trying to navigate the phases of what we're going through i was like i won't accept x y and z you see me and dad have arguments and squabble sometimes but it cannot continue all day long every single day yeah you guys have to figure out a way that you can operate around each other yeah because it's no fun for me anymore so it's Just like, unless you can sort it out, I don't know what you want me to do.

14:11Do they do stuff together in the school holidays? Obviously, I know you've just been on holiday together. But do they go to like the same camp? Or like the same? No. Yeah. They need a break. Yeah. No, no, no. That's the same with us. Like, they absolutely could not go to the same things. Definitely not. It has to be like completely separate. It's a shame because that would be much easier. Yeah, what, in terms of the drops and the pick-up. Yeah. We'll be right back after this short break.

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16:45Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? How are you and James? We're really good. Great. Yeah, yeah, I mean, James came on the podcast. Now, listen, I go away for a week, James on the podcast. What happened? He was actually really annoying. He was like, oh, I like it here. Yeah, well, I'm going to come on a more often. I was like, you're actually not. Like, you're literally here because Zoe's not, and it's a one-off. And it was a very last-minute booking. What did you guys chat about? We talked about the holiday, but things that came up on the holiday. Like, James took part in a swimming race.

17:19It was just the funniest thing I've ever seen. He didn't drink for the rest of the holiday. Why? So on, I think it was like maybe day two, they came around and they were like, is anyone a good swimmer? And I was like, I think, I was pointing at him more like, just leave me alone, go and do an activity. Right. And to take the piss, obviously. And he is always like, oh, you know, I don't, he thinks he sort of is immune to not being fit. Do you know what I mean? Like he thinks he'll be fit forever. and he's he doesn't do any exercise i can't describe to you none zero what no zero he hasn't yeah but doesn't go to the gym but he plays paddle like once a month or twice a month like it's not he doesn't do any regular exercise nothing hasn't done for five years wow yeah and he just assumes he's like fit still and i'm always trying to show him that he's not and so this swim was like 350 150 meters across the sea it's quite a long way it was the best thing i've ever seen he couldn't breathe it was like i genuinely thought he was gonna die i was like this is it like i'm on my own now great um and but for the rest of the holiday he didn't drink he had vegetables and protein like every meal it like changed it was annoying because i was like oh come on just have gin and tonic or something he's like no I can't um it's because he got showed up confronting for him oh brilliant it was really really funny and how did he handle it when he was discussing it on the podcast was there bravado or was there was there yeah no I think he was quite like embarrassed and quite like oh well it was just yeah it was really difficult um oh but yeah it's really funny watching how that has changed everything for him quite quite nice in a way He's now like every morning, like, I'm going to go to the gym.

19:13And I'm like, okay, still hasn't, still hasn't. But I'm so, it's so nice. Like, he's always been so disciplined and so motivated. And so he's so hard on everyone else. That's the only thing to describe it. Like with Axel, it's like, well, you know, you're not going to get better unless you're out there every minute of every day. And I'm like, oh, says you, who does nothing. It is so good. We love it. me and Axel are like dining out just loving life because we're like oh right oh yeah sorry did you lose that race oh okay there's something quite interesting in that exact moment somebody said something to me in Ibiza and one of my really really good friends is probably well she's 52 I'm 43 and she said to me she hasn't had any work done and she said I'm just going to say this to right now she went at a certain point you will look in the mirror and realize that it is going one direction this is when we were having dinner and I was like what and she went at the moment you think you're invincible she said you think your skin will always look the same you think your body will always perform the same and I was like yeah 43 still feel I mean I've been quite ill recently but and I was like what do you mean she goes no no just just just you wait essentially and I haven't stopped thinking about it because I still obviously I noticed that I'm aging and my body's changing and stuff and my elasticity and obviously there's all the health bits and pieces that have been going on but fundamentally I still feel like I can do anything and probably James had that moment where it's actually quite confronting because you realize that you're not 30 any longer or 25 any longer and you can do anything and I think I've been thinking about this aging process did you see katherine ryan on olivia atwood's price of perfection she has admitted that she's had a facelift yeah she talks about on her podcast oh i'm fucking late to the party yeah yeah but am i supposed to be having a facelift i don't want to have a facelift like fair play it's okay you don't have to have a face okay fine i just thought i feel i feel like i'm like fair play to her amazing if this is what your choice is by the way i'm not talking about her her decision but i did start thinking will i wait will i wake up and just realize that i'm just a decrepit old hag that can't do anything can't exercise can't train and my face is around my legs you know like will that happen to me at a certain point overnight i don't know i don't know do you know what i mean though yeah i know i know what you mean i know exactly what you mean there's suddenly like something happens and you're like oh wow invincible yeah i can't do this or like i can't continue like this yes this isn't going to be forever yes totally i know exactly what you mean so my stomach ulcer came back yes okay haven't spoken about this no you haven't seen you yeah it's been a fucking stressful time it's been a stressful time at home lots of stuff going on there which has all been resolved which is great a few months ago and running myself ragged getting up to do the earlies for four weeks which kills me because my circadian rhythm yeah my my gut brain you know that whole thing wasn't eating enough wasn't looking after myself drinking way too much alcohol because of the sunshine did you find that it's like every day I was like whoa oh yeah the sun's out and then suddenly started to feel that pain again spoke to the NHS doctors and they were like no you need to wait a couple of weeks you know you need to do a stool sample you need to do x y y z and I was like the H Polaris come back I know I can feel it I cried in the studio my pain went from like so we're doing breakfast show it's Wednesday morning pain went from five to nine in about 20 minutes and Jamie was like let's get you out of here they put me in a car and sent me home I slept for 18 hours a day for those two days went to a private doctor and she put me on a course of antibiotics which I've now finished but I think what I wanted to sort of tie in was that I feel like running ourselves ragged yeah and pushing ourselves to the limits it's just I can't do it any longer no no no something has to give it's not sustainable it's really not sustainable um yeah and the thing is like you've got that that shows up yeah you You know, like almost as a like, they say, don't they, if you don't stop, your body will stop you or whatever it is.

23:21There's something like that, isn't it? Yeah. And that's your thing, isn't it? That's like, you know, that's like enough is enough when that happens. But I think there's so many of us like running around doing that. Yeah. And not knowing when that stop is. Yeah. You know? Like you, I think of you often. You always go to bed early, don't you? Pretty much, yeah. Like consistently, how many nights out of 30 would you go to bed at before 10pm? oh like 87 % maybe 93 % that's specific that is so Georgia like 87 % yeah 87.75 % so so 25 days yeah I'll have like maybe two nights on a weekend where it will be later and maybe like a couple of nights in the week where like something I don't know we just got back late and something's right yeah but generally oh no yeah yeah i'm a bit like very strict yeah with sleep and i think that's the one component that i'm missing because i'm because i'm you go to bed early i do but i've been operating off about four and a half five hours sleep for quite a long time now i don't think that anyone can well no margaret thatcher on the country badly but she ran it for a very for a long time for a long time on four hours sleep a night but i just i am not her and i'm not a prime minister so i need to i'm definitely going to prioritize i haven't been to the gym for a month wow me i haven't trained for a month oh my god devastating yeah so i'm i'm going to say this on the podcast because i want to be kept accountable how many times have i said this before right when you're listening your podcast has not skipped back a year and then another year and then another year.

25:03I am going to quit drinking until Christmas. Me and producer Mark are just looking at each other like, here we go again. I am doing it. It's the 10th of August. I haven't had a drink since Saturday. Today's Monday. I'm on day two. I'm doing it. I'm not having a drink until Christmas. What can be my consequence like a child if I drink? Well, I tell you what, that can be for you guys. You can send in Zoe's forfeit if she drinks. If anyone sees her drinking, spots a drink, look over her fence, guys. I'm giving you permission. Look in her shopping baskets. Look on her food delivery. Okay. Okay. Apart from the weekend that I DJ in a B3 at the end of September.

25:47We'll give you that. Fine. Yeah. But the rest of the time, that's me done. Okay. So, okay. And then, so if anyone sees her, you get a reward. Yeah. and also we'll come up with a forfeit. Okay. Send us your suggestion. Like, will it be very public, like Trafalgar Square? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You have to streak through. No, I'd quite enjoy that. No, no, no, let's not give it up. She'd like that. She does love it. It's got to be like, I'm going to send her on like a cooking course. Oh my fucking God, do you take that back? No. Yeah, fine. Okay, I want to do it. I just need to prioritise my health and I really want to do it and I think that's going to be the first thing.

26:27And what about you? What are you giving up? What am I giving up? Well, I'd say tea but I'd also be lying. I would never do that. But how many cups a day are you drinking? Actually, like loads less. I'm not even joking. But like how many? Four. Four? From eight? From eight? Yeah. And how many coffees? One. I can never do more than one. Have you had one already today though? Yeah. And then you had one downstairs? No. Was that your first one? That was my first one. Look at me trying to bust her. Yeah, she's trying to... Listen. Oh, you know. Okay, well, that's good. Yeah. Do you feel better off it?

26:57Yeah, I've felt better off it. No. Not at all. So it changed... No, that's the rubbish thing, isn't it? How's your exercise? Good. Yeah? Going to my PT at least twice a week. What happened to Granny Gym? I had to pin it up. Yeah. It was too Granny. No. It was. It really was. There was, like, one time I was in there, and I had to send my resignation after that. And I did think to myself, there's no like genuinely there's no one in here even younger than my parents oh and I thought it's probably just not the place for me and even James was like George you're going to the gym a lot do you feel any better I was like no no I don't no this is not working out for me um but yeah and do you know what I've been really pleased that I've been like carrying on because I think everyone anyone listening school holidays come around and everyone's routines go out the window so do I and it's and that's why I started this before the school holidays because I was like I have to go like I have to go there is no like getting out of it and I've had to take the kids with me a couple of times yeah and it's been fine um but yeah like last week I did feel you know I don't know if anyone listening gets this but you can have an amazing week with the kids on holiday and you're like oh this is brilliant this is oh look this is so lovely and then you come back and then they have to go to camps and they and it's like a stark contrast and yeah last week I was feeling like oh I feel really guilty so I had them at home a couple of times when I was working from home and then I was like no this is horrific and then taking them to the gym with me and I'm like This is meant to be my hour.

28:44There needs to be some kind of balance there. But what do we do? It's hard. I don't know. Do you remember your summers when you were a child? We literally were naked in the field, running around, on the swim, swimming in the pond like I had an idyllic childhood. But was your mum at work? Yeah. In the school holidays? So who was there? You don't know. There was a lady called Barbara who used to make homemade chips. but then she died but I just remember her being she was like she was a cleaner yeah she was lovely yeah quite strict but I think she was a secret smoker and then she died of lung cancer which was quite that was really sad so I do remember her being there once and then just not being there after that so I think Barbara was around but I don't think there was that like hour to hour care no just like we just obviously when we were younger my mum was around a lot more but like when we got to sort of 10 11 12 we were just we were roaming free yeah to do all I think they we weren't clubs we weren't going to see people we weren't yeah our nearest town was like three miles away oh right so we were in the middle of nowhere yeah so it's kind of like i think it was just very very different but at the same time i think we put so much pressure on ourselves to keep giving more and more and more to them they can't be at home for one day without having a mate round or having a club to go to like i realized that they have to go to a club if we're working yeah also sometimes can they not just sit downstairs and be bored for a while no I this is why I've I've had them like home a couple of days actually not Axel because I really don't feel like he can do that um but Gigi I've had her home like a few times and I've just been like right there's crafts here yeah like you can watch the tv yeah like that's it yeah that's your lot um but yeah you were feeling guilty George oh yeah I was just feeling bad like I was thinking about when I was young my mum didn't work and my dad used to have the holidays off yeah so although he didn't I don't think because when I actually think I can't really remember him being around in holidays he must have been doing something but we would do like days out like national trust places with like all my friends and I don't know if that exists so much anymore because people are working so then it's not the same holiday i don't know i'm just trying i just you know when you think about it i'm like i think especially because this is axel's last summer before he starts secondary school next year jesus christ isn't that mad and then i know then that's that that's that like he'll probably just be spending time with his friends george that is bonkers i know that means we've been wanging on on this podcast for like nearly 10 years now yeah he's 10 on thursday what the hell Oh my God.

31:25Yeah, I know. We've also had each other in each other's lives for a decade. I know. Forget about those little tiny humans. What about you and me? Yeah. What are we going to do for that? Oh, let's go drinking. Oh, no, no, I've given up. Yeah. See? Oh, well, we can have that date. That's an excuse still. She's going to be messaging me. Here are my dates that are exempt. I just want to say this to you. I don't want you to feel guilty because you are an amazing mother. You are always taking them out to places. You're always providing, not just financially, but... emotionally you you are basically giving them the you've given them the building blocks to do whatever they want in life so the fact that and the reason they can do all that george is because you're such a grafter and you also manage to divide your time between them and your work so please it would be nice though if we just downed tours like they do like lots of different places like for a month wouldn't it oh my god i think about that all the time do you know those those families that get to go away for like when when the holidays but and then then they're like see you in eight weeks we're just going off to i don't know portugal yeah wherever it is for eight weeks it'd be like oh let's create that for our future i know that's what i keep thinking i'm like kids won't want to come maybe next summer is my summer oh maybe my mom is in malbea yeah why not producer mark likes it yeah or morocco or where else we is then how would you like to go mark i only begin with them maritius there we go yeah i don't know i think any if anyone else is like sort of feeling that like i don't think i'd want to be home with them all summer at home though so anyone who is i don't envy you either hats off like honestly i don't think i could do that and also shout out to any of our scottish listeners because their kids went back to school today back to school so you've done it you've done it yeah but it's it's less about not loving it for me because my favourite thing in the world is to be with them it's more about juggling and trying to make it work yes it is and then you feel like yeah you're just a bit I think you're just more split when it's not school time I don't know and I think there's more yeah because you don't feel guilty about them being at school do you?

33:27essentially it's the same and also the logistics and having to have all those conversations with your partner that also makes that relationship slightly sticky and a bit like what are we to each other at the moment yeah because it's just like logistics you're picking up here you're doing that yeah that's true although i have my parents now so they're like i have two other people in my relationship joe's got two new pas yes oh no honestly i do feel bad i was like writing down you know this whole lion's gate thing did you you know where it's like 8th of august is like the day to manifest oh no it's the full you talk about the full moon two days the eclipse no it was 8th of august which was saturday lion something gate what yeah i don't know anyway it kept coming off on my feet and it was like write down this time next year things you like you would like to bring in what did you write them and what no one of them was like not to rely on my parents so much because i do feel so bad like i don't know they don't mind though why do you feel bad because i just think oh i just think that's all they're doing at the moment like today my dad drove over to the house to pick Gigi and the dog up and then drove me with Axel to his go-karting camp dropped him off dropped me to the station then he'll go back home with Gigi and the dog like be there at their house for you know a bit play with Gigi in the pool like do all that then he'll get ready go back to go-karting camp to be there to watch the race with my mom Karting camp sounds amazing.

35:06Oh, yeah, don't. Axel walked up to his two friends and went, by the way, you two are getting cooked. I was like, oh, God. That is their slang though, isn't it? You've got serious riz. Yeah, you're getting cooked. And then he'll come and pick me up from the station. But you know when you're like, this is actually taking this. Should you be paying him? This is like, just. Should you be paying him? I mean, he pays me. He pays me. And that's the other thing as well. I'm like, yesterday, James had found this gaming chair for Axel on Facebook Marketplace. We were at my cousin's. And he's like, I've got my cash, so what am I going to do?

35:40We haven't even got our cards. I don't carry cards either. Everything's from your phone. My dad was like, oh, here we go. I've got the money. And I was like, we're also now taking money from them. They're doing everything for us. They're not strangers. They're your parents. No, I know. And I want you to take it. Take me on. You deserve it. No, I know. they would say as well but yeah at what point are we taking it's so mad to look at like your relationship with your parents yeah and what I have from my side where my mum essentially sent me a voice note yesterday being like I'm in hospital I nearly died at the weekend and nobody fucking called me because she got a water infection and she said she nearly died from malaria when I was 18 she got the cerebral one that went into her brain we basically had to go and say goodbye to her oh my god i thought i was gonna have to fly today her partner didn't call no one let me know no and i was like i just i was like trying not to get really cross with her but i was at the same time i was like mum like if you're hooked up to an iv drip and you've been in hospital since thursday why didn't anyone call me like i you know it's a very it's two very different sides of the coin here but what i want you to hold and i know that you do is that it's a privilege no i And you don't take the piss.

36:57I do know it's a privilege. I really do. I think it's just a stark contrast. Because I hadn't lived near my parents for 17 years. Yeah, exactly. So I'm loving it. But equally, I do feel a bit like, oh, this is all like, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I know I shouldn't. Yeah, you feel like it's too much. I just feel bad. Yeah. That's all it is. We should write another Grazia article saying let's leave guilt at the door. because we said that ages ago. I wonder if anyone else feels like this. I mean, I definitely don't. Yeah, no, I know, no, I know. I just wonder if anyone else feels like, I don't know, should we be able to do this on our own?

37:36I don't know. Well, you - Yeah, I know you are. I know, I know. I know, that's what I'm saying. You're like - But I feel so sad. Do you? I spoke to my mum's partner this morning and I said, I only have one parent left. Don't forget that. Please, if my mum goes into hospital, call me. yeah that's like just call me but also for her like just someone let me know do you think she would ever move back to UK oh I can hope not okay well there we go love you mum but stay in the warmth no no she she won't she won't but uh yeah there's there's a sadness on I'm not there's maybe I don't know if there is a sadness on your side but like I don't have that close relationship with her and there'll be people listening to this that are estranged from their parents and they've lost both their parents so it's like you have to kind of I don't want a small violin to to to to be brought out at the same time I won't have those feelings because I don't have that relationship yeah yeah yeah so it's kind of like and we just have to you know unfortunately we have to spend you know half of our earnings on paying somebody to look after our children because we don't have grandparents around yeah help us yeah you know Doz's dad's had another fall he was in hospital at the weekend it's just like yeah every every person set up looks different but I don't think that you are taking the piss I think that you've just got two super parents no yeah that's true And on that note, we're going to say goodbye.

38:55Thank you so much for listening to today's conversation. We love chatting to you guys. As always, we'd love you to rate, review, subscribe, and please give our podcast a follow. Yeah, and if you've got any feedback on this episode or guests you'd like to hear from or topics you'd like us to cover, drop us a DM on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers, and we'll be back on Friday.

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